I thought the defense matrix was like just reducing damage by like 5 but now that ive seen how fucking awesome it is, i think ill be using it more often
In addition, I'm not sure of the original intent here, but stacked mutas are actually better than non-stacked mutas against some forms of aoe. Take psi storm: since a flock of mutas is slower to respond to orders, and any trajectory for the flock out of the storm will possibly result in some mutas at the back of the flock flying INTO the storm, the stack of mutas is actually less vulnerable to psi storm, because of a faster response time and the ability to take the shortest route out.
-cont players are circumventing the intended function of mutas, making them stronger than they were meant to be.
It's pretty ironic that you've got no idea what any of my arguments are prior to this point, you continually attempt to insult me, and you're busy putting words in my mouth, yet you're the one calling me narrow-minded. What a joke.
@Zidana123 so, since the muta stack allows a flock to be stronger than intended and irradiate or splash damage can kill it easier somehow results in unbalance? If you attack in a flock as blizzard really intended you to do, then they wouldn't be so clumped up and spread out enough that splash only affects so much. I don't care about what the original intentions were or anything. I'm just saying that it is, in fact, balanced. The counters against each other have seem to have been proven equal. :)
@ericnrivers "since the muta stack allows a flock to be stronger than intended and irradiate or splash damage can kill it easier somehow results in unbalance?"
While it is true that irradiate can kill the stacked flock easier, it doesn't correct the imbalance. Why? Because Zerg can race to mutas very quickly, and Terrans take a bit longer to get to irridiate-capable sci vessels. Until that point, Terran must rely on marine/turrets, which are significantly weaker against stacked mutas. -cont
@ericnrivers -cont Remember, balance must also take into account things like tech trees and unit availabilty/time. Hypothetically speaking, if one race has a really strong tier 1 unit that is countered by a tier 3 unit of another race, that really strong tier 1 unit is in fact unbalanced, simply because it can allow one race to kill another before the other can achieve tier 3 and the counter.
Mutas are tier 2, Sci Vessels are either 2.5 or 3, depending on who you talk to. Thus it's still imba
@Zidana123 well don't forget, the harass balances with the splash damage. Plus, there are more than just one type of unit for each race so it would only be imba if an unfair amount or quality of counters exist. As far as it goes, each race is used almost equally as much making them balanced. Plus, marines can kill mutas which is only tier one so it definetly makes it balanced. Especially since niether the muta harass or the irradiate of other vessels was intionally made by blizzard.
@ericnrivers "Plus, marines can kill mutas which is only tier one so it definetly makes it balanced"
It's much more difficult to micro marines into killing mutas though. The mutas ignore terrain and move faster, and can use los blockers like cliffs to their advantage. Therefore it's not really balanced.
And as for the "irradiate of other vessels" comment... Eraser is fine for killing lings and drones, but it's completely useless against mutas stacks. The vessels are just gonna die.
@ericnrivers "Plus, marines can kill mutas which is only tier one so it definetly makes it balanced"
It's much more difficult to micro marines into killing mutas though. The mutas ignore terrain and move faster, and can use los blockers like cliffs to their advantage. Therefore it's not really balanced.
And as for the "irradiate of other vessels" comment... Eraser is fine for killing lings and drones, but it's completely useless against muta stacks. The vessels are just gonna die.
@ericnrivers "Plus, marines can kill mutas which is only tier one so it definetly makes it balanced"
It's much more difficult to micro marines into killing mutas though. The mutas ignore terrain and move faster, and can use los blockers like cliffs to their advantage.
And as for the "irradiate of other vessels", Eraser is fine for killing lings and drones, but it's completely useless against muta stacks. The vessels are just gonna die.
-cont attack move into the muta stack and hope for the best, if you have no AOEs.
That's not to say that it's uncounterable. Irridiate is STRONGER against a tightly stacked muta ball than a spread out flock, but that's irrelevant, as COUNTERABLE DOES NOT MEAN BALANCED.
The reason why muta stacking is imba is simply this: Blizzard intended for mutas to exist in a flock. Their attack damage, speed, health, are all balanced around them being in a flock. By putting them in a ball, -cont
-cont that caused the mutas to want to spread apart. This tightened the muta ball into the space of a single muta and caused the attacks to be far more devastating, as instead of commanding a flock of mutas that completed a single volley over the span of about 2 seconds due to spread, all the mutas within the flock can ATTACK SIMULTANEOUSLY, allowing for much tighter overall control.
Also, enemies can no longer select individual mutas to pick out of the flock, as before. You can only a -cont
-cont The nature of air units, as Blizzard programmed the game, is to want to spread apart from one another. That's a completely separate idea from ACCELERATION and SPEED. Case in point, before muta STACKING was invented, players were already using high speed muta harass to great effect, but the mutas were not grouped up atop one another.
Then someone, realized by putting a non-muta unit, overlord or larva, into the muta group, and clicking rapidly, they could circumvent the game code -cont
BOTTOM LINE IS. @Zidana123 is bitter to how boxer wins against zerg players, he continually making statements making us believe that boxer is a "cheater". (maybe hes a zerg player or hes just fucking insecure) well my friend, stop trolling, stop arguing with us on the internet, and just play the fucking game with me. plain and simple. you being zerg, me being terran
@riskbreakerrecca17 "he continually making statements making us believe that boxer is a "cheater". "
And can you disprove that he is a cheater? I say that he uses meta-game mechanics like allied mines and using command centers to 'squash' interceptors. You can see him doing these very things in this video. Are you going to sit there and try and tell me that actions like this AREN'T cheating?
@Zidana123 you want facts? BISU for protoss, Jaedong for Zerg and Flash for Terran. why do THESE PLAYERS EXCEL on those races? you know why? BECAUSE THEY KNOW HOW TO PLAY THE GAME, PLAIN AND SIMPLE. Dont be so narrow minded dude... pls help yourself :))
@riskbreakerrecca17 "BISU for protoss, Jaedong for Zerg and Flash for Terran. why do THESE PLAYERS EXCEL on those races? you know why? BECAUSE THEY KNOW HOW TO PLAY THE GAME, PLAIN AND SIMPLE."
I agree completely. What does that statement have to do with refuting anything I've said? Nothing. Note that I've not said anything about any other player. Only Boxer.
@riskbreakerrecca17 And as long as we're talking about 'BOTTOM LINE's, how about I tell you what the bottom line really is: you and the other fools in this thread trying to debate me have to resort to insults and calling me a troll because at the end of the day, you can neither defend your arguments with facts nor prove my arguments wrong.
If I really am bitter or insecure or a troll, you should be able to disprove my arguments, right? But you can't, can you? No, you can't.
@CTManiacu Straw manning it up against, I see. When did I ever say anything about being 'all equal' or 'no difference'? And what does comsat have to do with lift-off, which is the example which I gave? Last I heard CCs could fly from 0 seconds into the game, or did they patch that to require comsat too recently and I just wasn't aware of that change?
How about you address my actual argument instead of refuting some idiotic argument that you've come up with on your own?
@CTManiacu Actually, yes, I've been playing bw since about a month after release day. I can pretty much gurantee that's longer than you've been playing it.
"it just shows how bad you are that your argument is one unit has something another doesn't"
Yea, uhm, that's not my argument. Nice straw man you got going there. How about you read my argument, understand it, and refute it? Or are you just too stupid to comprehend?
How can you say that SC1 is fundementally more balanced than SC2 when the FIRST UNIT you start out with isn't balanced? CCs and Nexi cost the same, have the same hp, so why does the CC have a special ability and the Nexus does not?
In SC2, both units have special abilities. Now, are fly and chronoboost perfectly balanced against each other? No. But at least they're more balanced than fly and NO ABILITY AT ALL.
Only time will tell when Boxer's true skills are really shown. The maps and races are still imba in SC2, so you might not see his full potential. You may be giving Boxer some credit, but to call him a hack based on this video and some of his seemingly cheap play isn't the right way to judge a player's worth. Boxer was beyond that and I'm sure many others agree with me. That's all I have to say.
@GravityXVoid I'm not calling Boxer a hack based on this video. I'm calling him a hack based on his track and play record. I will admit, to even imagine clicking the ally box to give his mines an unfair advantage is a mental leap that the vast majority of people would not have made, myself included. But then, anyone with a sense of fair play wouldn't have actually gone ahead and USED it to gain an unfair advantage. THAT lack of a sense of fair play is why Boxer is a hack.
@GravityXVoid As for the maps and races are still imba in SC2 comment, I admit, the map pool sucks. But SC2, at the current state of development, is already leaps and bounds ahead of SC1 in balance. I'll give you an example:
SC1 - CC vs Nexus:
CC: 400m, 1500 hp, special ability: fly
Nexus: 400m, 1500 hp, special ability: NONE
SC2 - CC vs Nexus
CC: 400m, 1500 hp, special ability: fly
Nexus: 400m, 1500 hp, special ability: chronoboost
Not quite. SC2 is a game which favors macro more, while SC favors micro more. You just have to give him credit for being great in a game which had different mechanics. You're holding it against him for playing a game that had many things changed. Same applies for many ex BW players. It still doesn't discredit the fact that he was great at THAT era and game. Again, I say that he doesn't depend on many of the things that you consider cheap in order to be great.
@GravityXVoid Actually, both SC and SC2 favor micro and macro equally. It's just that SC2 has removed many of the more gimmick aspects of micro that were due to coding flaws in SC. Case in point, stacking mutas. There was no way Blizzard intended mutas to be used in that way during development. Stacking mutas are merely a manipulation of the game movement mechanics. As a result, it's extremely difficult to counter conventionally and requires things like storm and irradiate.
@Zidana123 So you want to counter stack mutas with marines? or wraith? lol you really are fucked up my friend. stacking mutas is NOT manipulating game movement mechanics. stack mutas is a strategy, wherein you take advantage of the mobility of MUTALISKS. on the other hand, iradiate, storm, valkyrie. MM, counter that, is that also merely a manipulation of game mechanics? think twice brad
@riskbreakerrecca17 "So you want to counter stack mutas with marines? or wraith? lol you really are fucked up my friend."
When did I say anything about countering muta stacking with marines or wraith? I did not. It's not a refutation of my argument to attempt to put words in my mouth.
And no, Muta-stacking IS manipulating game movement mechanics. The nature of the muta is to spread apart. That has nothing to do with the MOBILITY of mutas. -cont
"The man has beastly micro. Sure, I'll admit to him having godlike micro. And that means what, exactly?"
I don't even know what to say to this, because this is just ridiculous. Having a great micro is what sets apart a Progamer and a regular gamer. Even amongst Progamers, Boxer's micro was considered insane. That was one of the main things that made him that great. Some of the things he did could be considered cheap, but regardless, his micro and builds were the best back in his prime.
@GravityXVoid I repeat: he has great micro, even among progamers. So what? Does that somehow nullify the fact that he's cheap? It does not. His micro abilities aren't relevant to the topic.
Besides, Boxer is getting better at SC2, seeing how he's 5th on the ladder. His GSL perf weren't satisfactory, but the real GSL just started. Ur last statement is incorrect. If u think Boxer was credited for only relying on those cheap tactics to win, I'll ask u to watch more of his videos. Obviously, you still think he's cheap because of those things u mentioned, when in fact, those weren't the main reasons that made him great.
Besides, Boxer is getting better at SC2, seeing how he's 5th on the ladder. His GSL perf weren't satisfactory, but the real GSL just started. Ur last statement is incorrect. If u think Boxer was credited for only relying on those cheap tactics to win, I'll ask u to watch more of his videos. Obviously, you still think he's cheap because of those things u mentioned, when in fact, those weren't the main reasons that made him great.
@GravityXVoid Boxer is GETTING BETTER at SC2. That statement right there proves my point perfectly. He is GETTING BETTER, which means that he is adapting to an arena in which his overdependance on meta-gaming cheapness is punished. In order to make up for that lack he is being forced to develop greater actual SKILL.
I agree, Boxer's cheapness isn't what makes him a top-tier player. But that's neither here nor there. THIS VIDEO is full of examples of his cheapness and lauds them as great.
@Zidana123 EVERYONE is getting better at this game. Why are you hating on him so much anyways? He's one of the top 5 players atm in most people's opinions.
@apollonius1994 I don't hate Boxer. I'm just pointing him out for the cheap glitch and imba-abusing cheater that he is. It is not automatically an act of hate to point out a man's faults.
He's one of the top 5 players atm in most peoples' opinions. Yes. True. And Hitler was one of the top government leaders in alot of Germans' opinions, once upon a time. Not comparing Boxer to Hitler, just pointing out the fallacy in saying 'people hold this person in high regard so therefore it is proof.'
@Zidana123 He IS one of the top 5 players atm not because out of fallacy, but because he can actually play and entertain people. If he IS an imba-abusing cheater, then he should have been kicked out of the starcraft league long time ago. Tell me why he isn't? Even the starcraft makers agreed that Slayer_Boxer is a "god" at starcraft and even invited him to huge events.
@TheJOEster0000 Blizzard invited Boxer to Blizzcon not because they agreed that he is a 'god' at starcraft, but because they know that his name is a huge publicity draw and will serve to help legitimize SC2 among the ranks of the fans who continue to reject it simply because it is new.
As for why he wasn't kicked out of the leagues long ago, it's because his actions were declared cheating in retrospect, and he hasn't performed those particular cheats since. Doesn't make it not imba though.
@Zidana123 and the reason he's a huge publicity draw is because he is one of the best in the eyes of the public, and yes he is there to legitimize SC2.
I can tell where you're going with this, but there are going to be glitches that won't be fixed for the 'fun' of the game, for example; stacking mutas like u said was never intentionally put into the system, but it stayed within the game, why is that? it's cuz it helps create strats and is entertaining, it happens in SC2 too.
@TheJOEster0000 That's where you're wrong. Those glitches that aren't fixed in SC1 aren't being left alone for the 'fun' of the game. They're being left alone because Blizzard just doesn't care enough to fix them, as they would require fundemental changes to the engine itself, as opposed to small tweaks like unit costs and movement speed.
Stacking mutas KILLS strats, actually. It's hell on balance and difficult to defend against, and all it has created is a culture where zerg rushes to -cont-
@Zidana123 ur right about he glitches, but Blizzard has been workin on starcraft's glitches/problems, as well as improvements for more than 10 years. Not everything that people want will be fixed, it's the same as the other games, there will NEVER be a game that'll be spot on perfect that has no glitches or problems.
'none of them do it nearly as much or as flagrantly as he has,' that seems more of a complement than criticism.
@TheJOEster0000 "'none of them do it nearly as much or as flagrantly as he has,' that seems more of a complement than criticism." Only to those who have no sense of fairness.
And as for "Blizzard has been workin on SC's glitches/problems", it's not an issue of 'years,' because many years go by between patches. It's more an issue of 'how many patches in total,' and so far SC2 has ALREADY had a ton more patches than SC. Blizz basically stopped working on SC after around 2006.
@Zidana123 you got a point when it comes to mutas killing strats, but isn't that one of the basic play styles in starcraft? You can't just walk into another person's strat the whole time, you got to stop it somehow whether it's marine/medic, stack mutas, or just rushing all out. Sure that's unbalanced but that's why there's vessals, defilers, and other units for defence and such.
@TheJOEster0000 "Sure that's unbalanced but that's why there's vessals, defilers, and other units for defence and such."
And therein lies the problem. It shouldn't be unbalanced to begin with. In a well-balanced game, there should be a variety of strats which are equally implementable, and have an equal chance of victory assuming a proper response by the enemy. What will then happen is people will use different strats according to their playstyle. But that's not the case. -cont-
@Zidana123 Kid that typed up seven pages. 1. That's your own definition of balance. 2. 90% of Zerg going mutalisk is A. A number you made up B. Not the best method AT ALL 3. Shut up.
@sapfirewand "That's your own definition of balance."
You have no idea what balance is, do you?
How about I define it. Balance in an RTS game is a situation where game mechanics result in two players of equal skill have a 50% win/loss ratio over a long run. That's as simple as it gets.
Sorry, but that's THE definition of balance. You must be one of those people who can't actually define a word properly but only has a vague idea of what it means.
@Zidana123 muta stack < science vessel irradiate? do you think its imbalanced because EVERY ZERG PLAYER USE THAT? EVERY ZERG PLAYER USE THAT BECAUSE ITS EASY TO DO. but every MOVE has a counter. HOW COME SLAYERS BOXER OWNS 13 ZERG PLAYERS DOING THE SAME STRAT AS YOU HAVE SAID?
@Zidana123 NOPE NOT BECAUSE HE CHEATS, THATS BECAUSE EVERY ZERG PLAYER IS DOING THE SAME THING.. MUTA STACK. EARLY ExPAND, cmon men get over it. STARCRAFT IS A BALANCED GAME, TERRAN, ZERG AND PROTOSS have its pros AND cons. you just have to learn to study it. and when you answer my question sir please use a little logic ok? explain before you complain.
@riskbreakerrecca17 You've got no grounds on which to debate with me if you don't know about the first move advantage in chess. It's something that Chess Grand Masters have admitted to existing since the late 1800s. If you don't even know a little thing like that then you're just ignorant and have nothing worth saying about anything, sorry.
@Zidana123 oh my goodness, the 12 year old has confirmed that chess is imbalanced because of a first move. oh, let me list you some other things that are imbalanced: any type of board game and basketball as well, BECAUSE BACK FLIPPING INTO THE NET IS NOT A VALID STRATEGY, AND THE CURRENT SHOOTING FORM IS DOMINANT AND HENCE IT IS IMBALANCED.
Look, 9th grade kid, that was a great attempt at starting an empty argument with me. But unfortunately, SORRY, NOPE.
@Zidana123 omg i recently checked my comment box and it seems that the american teenager who posted 39 pages of comment info talking about how irradiate does not counter muta-stacks and how chess is IMBALANCED has offered to tell me that my argument has crumbled
Translation: I can't think of anything valid to say so in a vague attempt to salvage my pride I'm going to post something vaguely resembling an insult that makes no sense whatsoever!
@Zidana123 so like irradiate doesn't counter muta-stacks and chess is imbalanced because it is turn based and must contain a first move right?
it doesn't take much intelligence to scroll through youtube and find a thirteen year old arguing about logic on a SLAYERS BOXER VIDEO for 25 pages through across a span of 12 months
or are you going to like IGNORE what i said above, and tell me im making an irrelevant insult again, you stupid little american niggershit
@sapfirewand "or are you going to like IGNORE what i said above, and tell me im making an irrelevant insult again, you stupid little american niggershit"
And just what have you said above? Let us see.
"so like irradiate doesn't counter muta-stacks and chess is imbalanced because it is turn based and must contain a first move right?"
Yes, that is right. Thank you for repeating my argument while making none of your own. And btw, you DID make an irrelevant insult again.
@Zidana123 WELL YOU KNOW SAY SOMEONE WAS TRYING TO CONVINCE ME THAT ONE PLUS ONE IS ACTUALLY THREE, I WOULDN'T REALLY MAKE MY OWN ARGUMENT BECAUSE WHAT AM I SUPPOSE TO SAY ROFL, MAYBE YOU SHOULD TAKE YOUR ARGUMENT AND MAIL IT TO KESPA AND SOME INTERNATIONAL CHESS COMPETITIONS BECAUSE YOU BELIEVE THAT BY YOUR DEFINITION OF BALANCE, CHESS AND STARCRAFT ARE CURRENTLY UNFAIR TO BE PLAYED LOL SMART 13 YEAR OLD KID
@sapfirewand "WELL YOU KNOW SAY SOMEONE WAS TRYING TO CONVINCE ME THAT ONE PLUS ONE IS ACTUALLY THREE"
Translation: "OH NO I HAVE NOTHING INTELLIGENT TO SAY SO I WILL JUST SWITCH TO TYPING IN ALL CAPS BECAUSE IT WILL SOMEHOW ADD MORE WEIGHT TO MY NONSENSE WORDS"
@Zidana123 yeah because when chess is played today, we REALLY are competing with two infinitely capable machines that process the entire game tree in an instant and so first or second move really matters. and of course, every zvt match that has been played in a decade was secretly imbalanced because I, Zidana123, Alabama Gr 8 Gifted Program, assigned some tier numbers and by intuition and a few skips of thought, determined that all korean progamers practising 12 hours a day are actually BLIND
@sapfirewand When did I say that chess is "two infinitely capable machines that process the entire game tree in an instant"? or that korean programers are BLIND? How about you address my actual arguments instead of straw-manning it up?
Do you actually having a working brain in there? Or are you some kind of parrot who just repeats insults that he's heard over the years, with no understanding of how or why they are insulting? Age? Race? You've got no idea how insults even work, do you?
@sapfirewand "Hello, when a human fights a human in chess or Starcraft, does it matter?"
Yes, yes it does matter. At the professional level, little things like first move advantage or muta stack are magnified, far more than in games between non-professional players. And if you call yourself a fan of starcraft you would know this. Professional players are so good at taking advantage of weakness that very few professionals can recover from an early disadvantage, in both chess and starcraft.
@Zidana123 I'm sorry but there are plenty of arguments all over TL about matchup imbalances, and given how SC was developed, there obviously exist imbalances. And guess what, even the top S class players show enough inconsistencies, lack of scouting, and occasional slumps over time that these things, especially MUTALISK STACK IMBALANCE, which I have never heard or seen, or noticed in any video, really does not make a difference in the overall score.
@sapfirewand "I'm sorry but there are plenty of arguments all over TL about matchup imbalances, and given how SC was developed, there obviously exist imbalances."
Very interesting you should say that. Because if you'll go back and look at my original point, all I said was that the imbalance EXISTED. I never mentioned anything about it impacting the overall score. You were the one that first attempted to straw man my argument with all these externalities about score or human ability.
@Zidana123 Well, you're pretty smart because by your level of strictness, imbalances exist in every sport, game or anything ever made, except for rock paper scissors using quantum particles. And that's exactly what you did for the last 3000 comments you made: A rant about nothing, arguing for something whose conclusion doesn't affect anything but demonstrating to yourself how great you are at making an argument. Good job, kiddo.
@Zidana123 Teenage kid begins a 104-comment long youtube rant on absurd things that have no effect on anything, telling anybody who insults him they don't have the brains to prove him wrong, and anybody who tells him he's talking about absolutely pointless things is claimed to be attacking a strawman and is wrong. Whatever you say, chief
@sapfirewand First it was 3000, and now it's down to 104.
What, you can't even keep your insults straight?
"telling anybody who insults him they don't have the brains to prove him wrong"
Well, yea. Are you gonna sit there and try to tell me that it's not true? If someone instantly resorts to insults as juvenile as race and age, they pretty much don't have the brains to prove anyone wrong.
And you've demonstrated that yourself pretty well, I'd say.
@Zidana123 Golden rule here: If an imbalance exists that tilt towards a particular side given the current skill level of human gameplay, then the professional league wouldn't even exist
@sapfirewand Uhm, no. The golden rule is "Do unto others what you would have them do unto you." Although I guess you clearly had no idea what it was, given your behavior.
"If an imbalance exists that tilt towards a particular side given the current skill level of human gameplay, then the professional league wouldn't even exist"
You wanna support that statement with any evidence there? What are you saying, exactly? If say, Protoss was the most powerful, everyone would play Protoss?
@Zidana123 Or are we going to play this game, where you pretend you don't know what I'm talking about lolololololololololol funny internet kid is funny
@sapfirewand I'm gonna be honest with you. The only thing you've said that actually made any sense has been "Hello, when a human fights a human in chess or Starcraft, does it matter?"
The rest has been a spout of awkward gibberish and random insults with no context or meaning. Sorry, I actually don't know what you're talking about.
@Zidana123 The existence of first move imbalance in chess or whatever about BW you think doesn't. have. any. significant. impact. when. two. fucking. humans. (read: Human) are. playing. the. game.
If you want that kind of standard, like I said, basketball is also imbalanced, like almost any other game you would possibly invent with the exception of fucking rock paper scissors.
@sapfirewand Congratulations on the first actual argument you've presented. And it's only taken you what, a couple of months? I'm proud of you, I really am.
Actually, by that standard, basketball is MORE balanced than chess and BW. There is no first move advantage in basketball. The ref throws the ball up and the starters scrabble for it desperately, at the very limit of their physical skill. The game starts at the same instant of time for both teams. Thus, the starting conditions are balanced.
@Zidana123 speaking of which, smart us kid offering his little analysis on brood war, maybe you should watch some 2010-2011 replays of 3 hatch mutalisk versus turrets, and watch the transition into science vessels, and really watch how much damage the mutalisks actually does instead of generating up your little hypothetical tier numbers, and concluding that you're right, black boy
@sapfirewand Actually, I -have- "watch some 2010-2011 replays of 3 hatch mutalisk versus turrets, and watch the transition into science vessels, and really watch how much damage the mutalisks actually does", and from those replays I -have- concluded that I'm right.
@sapfirewand Whoa... I checked the comments to see what the fuss was about.... I was reading on and on until I read that Zidana123's name was mentioned 104 times (105 now)... O_o Everyone is mad at him? People disagreeing and ranting.... -_-
@Zidana123 It's like I'm watching some kespa videos and this 12 year old emerges from his hut and begins to explain why mutalisk stack implies the game is imbalanced. fuck chess must be imbalanced because we have move openings that are commonly used than others. fuck you need to hit age 15 already o man.
@TheJOEster0000 -cont- when one strat is significantly more powerful/has a better chance of success than all the others, players will innately gravitate to it and use it above all others, regardless of their playstyle. It's a natural progression. People want to win. So when you see something like 90+% of all zerg going muta stacking against Terran, (and realistically speaking, that IS the figure these days) it means something is wrong with your game's balance.
I don't see why he would be considered cheating if he finds ways/strategies to take advantage of his opponents other than pausing the game. Sure the allied mines was pretty bad which is why that was banned from the SC league, but many people do this outside of the league too, which would make them cheaters. Also, if his actions are considered "cheating" wouldn't that make almost everyone in the SC league cheating as well? They also do things that Boxer has done, he's not the first.
@TheJOEster0000 "many people do this outside of the league too, which would make them cheaters." Yes, they ARE also cheaters. Woe to the games on ICCup and B.net where this is done due to having no oversight in these avenues of play. And of course Blizzard isn't interested in patching SC to making it invalid, so it persists. Doesn't make it legit.
Yes, other players in the SC leagues also do the things that Boxer has done. But none of them do it nearly as much or as flagrantly as he has.
That's your opinion. Finding elements outside the game isn't necessarily cheating, unless Blizzard deemed it to be broken. Also, I like how you're criticizing my name calling, while you're calling Boxer a "cheap bastard". I went to many forums, and you're the very first person that I heard that from. How about his beastly micro? Surely, you don't think he's a cheap bastard from having a godlike micro? lol
@GravityXVoid Of course finding elements outside the game is cheating, regardless of whether or not Blizzard deems it to be broken. The definition of 'cheating' is violating the rules of the game. The rules of the game are not written by Blizzard, but by the SC sports industry itself. The coaches and judges outlawed things like floating drones and allied mines, so those elements are by definition cheating.
@GravityXVoid The man has beastly micro. Sure, I'll admit to him having godlike micro. And that means what, exactly? The things he does which make him a cheap bastard are not negated by him having micro skills, and him having micro skills is not negated by him being a cheap bastard.
I'm not going to deny him credit for what he's good at, but the fact remains that he's a cheap cheating bastard that relies overmuch on meta-gaming tricks to win.
LOL no, I'm sane and there's only one idiot I'm talking to here.... YOU! Anyway, forget that. What's important is that it seems to me, you're trying to label Boxer like he's some kind of hack, but honestly at least give credit to him for finding cool stuff like allied mines and making Terrans stronger. I admit, they (allied mines) were broken, which is why they were banned. Point is, he deserves the fame he has today. Nothing can take away his legacy in SC.
@GravityXVoid I'm not trying to label Boxer like he's some kind of hack. The man IS a hack, pure and simple. There is no credit given to cheaters finding new ways to cheat.
The credit which he DOES deserve is for his role in making SC popular and by becoming a household name (in Korea). All sports need their heroes, Babe Ruth, that Young fellow, Michael Jordan, Muhammad Ali, Hulk Hogan (yes, I know wrestling is fake), Boxer. Glory to him for that.
@GravityXVoid But that still doesn't change the fact that he is a cheating bastard who likes to jump on the cheapest and easiest way to win without actually playing the game as intended.
There is a difference between say, legitimately dodging lurkers with a handful of marines and killing them (That's SKILL), and spamming a fly and land button on a CC to kill Interceptors. And as I said in my original comment, half the stuff in the video is meta-game shit like that.
Also, what your saying is just retarded. If Boxer's play is cheap like you claimed, then why are many people still crediting him for being the most accomplished progamer hmm? Again, I ask you to face off against any of these players and tell that to their face. Terran play is what it is today because of Boxer. Insulting him is insulting all those pro terran players as well. Fucking faggot is just jealous because he's some nobody. XDD
@GravityXVoid "Fucking faggot is just jealous because he's some nobody. XDD" Who are you talking to? Yourself? Your invisible friend? Kinda weird when you derail from direct statements to me to someone else... >_>
People credit Boxer for being the most accomplished programer because of his role in popularizing StarCraft. Even I credited him with that, if you'd bothered to read my original post, which you clearly haven't. Doesn't mean he's a good player. Just means he's iconic.
@GravityXVoid Oh, and no, I'm not insulting those other players. Most of them have at least some shred of self-dignity and aren't willing to resort to meta-gaming like allied mines in order to win.
But if YOU'RE a terran player who uses the same cheap tricks as Boxer, then hell yea, I'm insulting you.
LOLOLOL... SC2 is a much more balanced game? Who the fuck are you? Have you even played both games? Right now in the BW proleague, the protosses are dominating in the ranks, while terrans and zergs are little bit behind. In SC2 people are QQ about how much terrans are IMBA and the maps are shit. Obviously you took too much retard cake to not even realize that.
@GravityXVoid Yes, because clearly comparing the BW proleague to the SC2 'people' is a fair comparision. Really. Nothing like comparing apples and oranges at all!
How about you compare the proleagues or the people in each case, instead of making up stuff?
@GravityXVoid And when did I claim to not care? How about you read what I said again, lol?
As for as scrub mentality, you're the one who's guilty of that. If you were truely a boxer fan, you wouldn't feel the need to insult someone with childish insults like 'faggot' or 'piece of shit' or no name 'scrub.' You'd just see it, think 'that person's wrong' and move on. But your insults ultimately show that you're insecure in your regard, or else why would you feel so threatened?
Pft, half the stuff in this video is just Boxer abusing Terran imba like the cheap bastard he is. All glory to the Emperor and all that, credit where credit is due for his role in popularizing SC, but honestly, most of Boxer's skill lies in figuring out the cheapest possible ways in which to use units and then practicing those uses to death. Entertaining? Only if you like watching cheapness.
And the proof of that is that he's not particularly good at SC2, since it's a much more balanced game
@GravityXVoid Clearly you do, otherwise you wouldn't have felt the need to post that.
The hilarious part is that you're so offended by my calling out of your hero for what he really is that you have to announce to the world that you don't care. You know what people who really don't care do? They don't say anything.
@Zidana123 Funny thing is, Boxer did indeed get to the round of 4 in GSL2. I would consider that a "round of note", yes?
What Boxer did is nothing short of pure genius. He took up what was, at the beginning of his career, probably the weakest race and made it a force to reckon with. His micro was unparalleled. His timing knowledge were precise, his thinking creative.
SC2 is nowhere NEAR as balanced as SC1, and good players require tricks AND strategy. W/out one, the other is useless.
@apollonius1994 Yes, Boxer took the weakest race and made it a force to reckon with, but not with creative thinking. He did it with cheapness and imba abuse of meta-game concepts. He doesn't win through strategy or tactics, he takes advantage of trickery. Trickery isn't the mark of a good player. It's the mark of a sub-par player who needs to be cheap to win.
As for your claim that SC2 isn't as balanced, how about some proof to back that up?
@Zidana123 Do you even play SC2? Have you ever played BW in your life? Boxer is not just known for the "tricks" above, but also for his general gamesense and micro.
SC2 is a NEW GAME compared to BW. It has roughly 6 months of balancing. You telling me that these 6 months > 12 years of BW tweaking? eg. Terran SCV Marine All - ins have a CRAZY winrate vs. zerg. I, as a mediocre player can beat several much stronger players with it. I wanna see proof from you that SC2 is more balanced than BW.
@apollonius1994 Is that a rhetorical question? Do you honestly believe that anyone who would post in a video about an e-sport celebrity hasn't played that game?
For your information I've been playing SC since 1998. I started before BW even existed. I remember when missile turrets were 100m, when dropships were 50% slower, when larvae would crawl off creep to attack in terran09, and when marines were useless cannon fodder.
The 12 years of BW tweaking never addressed the fundemental -cont-
@apollonius1994 issues that plague the game. Scouts are still useless. Wraiths are still useless. Queens are still useless. The pathing is still broken. Dragoons and Goliaths can't climb ramps and run in circles half the time. I'm talking about FUNDEMENTAL unit balance and coding issues.
You're talking about strategy. SCV Marine allins have a crazy winrate vs zerg, you say. Sure. True. But then, zerg players have a crazy tendency to go FE, which is weak against early pressure and rushes.
@Zidana123 SC2 balance? The man had to serve his country and by that time he was considered to head into retirement. He is VERY good at SC2. You're just very stupid.
Badass because it has a Bullet For My Valentine song.
apsbigpapasmurf 2 weeks ago
Boxer can kite a speedling with a tank in seige mode.
HonestlyProtoss 3 weeks ago
NERF THE KOREANs
Michaeljustarock 1 month ago 3
definition of a nerd baller
SODEMO2007 2 months ago
Found this video in my favorites 2 years later and I still can't fucking believe what I see.
IYukiI 2 months ago
barracks micro ftw
riceater87 3 months ago
I remember when I saw In Flames and BFMV live with Trivium, Disturbed, Avenged Sevenfold and best of all, Megadeth.
IbanezMitch 4 months ago
This video sucks, oh wait, I found the mute button. It's simple amazing now!
ochagaatsui 5 months ago
@ochagaatsui look same when i hide your comment.
matpiecz 3 months ago
I wonder if BoxeR names his immortal marines :) they are that important to him else he wouldnt keep em alive so much
Maratho007 5 months ago
I believe the song u use is by In Flames Clouds Connected
Devang91 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
when the little korean girls where screaming he thought "HEHEHE today I fuck"
rickyzoroza 6 months ago
Comment removed
rickyzoroza 6 months ago
Comment removed
llVIU 6 months ago
@llVIU Hahhaaha? what the hell? U know the person is boxer and he is korean and slayers is a famous starcraft team. U newb?
Suudan 5 months ago
I know the band is called "In Flames" I think the song is Clouds. Thumbs up so ppl can see
crazypak11 6 months ago 2
@crazypak11 clouds connected
Maxpow33r 4 months ago
Music starting @ 0:15 i beg you :D
Gallandra 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
This song is fucking gay.
NotRummy44 6 months ago
Teal T=win.
Hobomo85 6 months ago
sc1 > sc2
lazomaniac 6 months ago
wtf medic wall hahahah
poophead156 6 months ago
nice video and great choice of music
nowforfeit 6 months ago
did anyone else get a boner watching the gosu lockdown?!
dueceondic 7 months ago 16
@dueceondic I got a boner when I saw his medic wall! Holy shit!
SetbabyStarCraft 1 month ago
I thought the defense matrix was like just reducing damage by like 5 but now that ive seen how fucking awesome it is, i think ill be using it more often
ColaAlchoholic 7 months ago
if i was in an army i wish i was controled by boxer.
TheKcho360 7 months ago
@TheKcho360 haha. Thanks you made my day
DIEaHEROdotNET 6 months ago
gay stupid music
newalu 8 months ago
@newalu you are gay and stupid
Teheleri 6 months ago
damn it almost looks like he can win with only one marine.
Gameplay946 8 months ago
dammmmm crazy
namunamuchan 8 months ago
All 44 of those dislikes are Idra
mrchaos831 8 months ago
Awesome micro. Maybe he should quit playing sc2 which is all about timing and macro.
realchimera 8 months ago
The Emperor of Starcraft. He will be honored in entire SC history for sure.
msi0304 9 months ago
You are the king. What is your ip adress?
97Misu 9 months ago
hi huk!
NiGHTSS01 9 months ago
King of startcraft
Terribella1123 9 months ago
terrible music
SagaciousLuDa 10 months ago
finaly i encounter an hd game of sc1
andyfmiranda 10 months ago 85
@andyfmiranda wtf does hd mean?
julingy 6 months ago
@julingy High definition and if you say there's no option for that he mean's a game with no shitty recorder.
-source.
HiSource 6 months ago
@julingy ....
high definition
Dmen555 5 months ago
what is with koreans using heavy metal music on starcraft videos?
lambonut6 10 months ago
In addition, I'm not sure of the original intent here, but stacked mutas are actually better than non-stacked mutas against some forms of aoe. Take psi storm: since a flock of mutas is slower to respond to orders, and any trajectory for the flock out of the storm will possibly result in some mutas at the back of the flock flying INTO the storm, the stack of mutas is actually less vulnerable to psi storm, because of a faster response time and the ability to take the shortest route out.
Zidana123 10 months ago
-cont players are circumventing the intended function of mutas, making them stronger than they were meant to be.
It's pretty ironic that you've got no idea what any of my arguments are prior to this point, you continually attempt to insult me, and you're busy putting words in my mouth, yet you're the one calling me narrow-minded. What a joke.
Zidana123 10 months ago
@Zidana123 so, since the muta stack allows a flock to be stronger than intended and irradiate or splash damage can kill it easier somehow results in unbalance? If you attack in a flock as blizzard really intended you to do, then they wouldn't be so clumped up and spread out enough that splash only affects so much. I don't care about what the original intentions were or anything. I'm just saying that it is, in fact, balanced. The counters against each other have seem to have been proven equal. :)
ericnrivers 10 months ago
@ericnrivers "since the muta stack allows a flock to be stronger than intended and irradiate or splash damage can kill it easier somehow results in unbalance?"
While it is true that irradiate can kill the stacked flock easier, it doesn't correct the imbalance. Why? Because Zerg can race to mutas very quickly, and Terrans take a bit longer to get to irridiate-capable sci vessels. Until that point, Terran must rely on marine/turrets, which are significantly weaker against stacked mutas. -cont
Zidana123 10 months ago
@ericnrivers -cont Remember, balance must also take into account things like tech trees and unit availabilty/time. Hypothetically speaking, if one race has a really strong tier 1 unit that is countered by a tier 3 unit of another race, that really strong tier 1 unit is in fact unbalanced, simply because it can allow one race to kill another before the other can achieve tier 3 and the counter.
Mutas are tier 2, Sci Vessels are either 2.5 or 3, depending on who you talk to. Thus it's still imba
Zidana123 10 months ago
@Zidana123 well don't forget, the harass balances with the splash damage. Plus, there are more than just one type of unit for each race so it would only be imba if an unfair amount or quality of counters exist. As far as it goes, each race is used almost equally as much making them balanced. Plus, marines can kill mutas which is only tier one so it definetly makes it balanced. Especially since niether the muta harass or the irradiate of other vessels was intionally made by blizzard.
ericnrivers 10 months ago
@ericnrivers "Plus, marines can kill mutas which is only tier one so it definetly makes it balanced"
It's much more difficult to micro marines into killing mutas though. The mutas ignore terrain and move faster, and can use los blockers like cliffs to their advantage. Therefore it's not really balanced.
And as for the "irradiate of other vessels" comment... Eraser is fine for killing lings and drones, but it's completely useless against mutas stacks. The vessels are just gonna die.
Zidana123 10 months ago
@ericnrivers "Plus, marines can kill mutas which is only tier one so it definetly makes it balanced"
It's much more difficult to micro marines into killing mutas though. The mutas ignore terrain and move faster, and can use los blockers like cliffs to their advantage. Therefore it's not really balanced.
And as for the "irradiate of other vessels" comment... Eraser is fine for killing lings and drones, but it's completely useless against muta stacks. The vessels are just gonna die.
Zidana123 10 months ago
@ericnrivers "Plus, marines can kill mutas which is only tier one so it definetly makes it balanced"
It's much more difficult to micro marines into killing mutas though. The mutas ignore terrain and move faster, and can use los blockers like cliffs to their advantage.
And as for the "irradiate of other vessels", Eraser is fine for killing lings and drones, but it's completely useless against muta stacks. The vessels are just gonna die.
Zidana123 10 months ago
-cont attack move into the muta stack and hope for the best, if you have no AOEs.
That's not to say that it's uncounterable. Irridiate is STRONGER against a tightly stacked muta ball than a spread out flock, but that's irrelevant, as COUNTERABLE DOES NOT MEAN BALANCED.
The reason why muta stacking is imba is simply this: Blizzard intended for mutas to exist in a flock. Their attack damage, speed, health, are all balanced around them being in a flock. By putting them in a ball, -cont
Zidana123 10 months ago
-cont that caused the mutas to want to spread apart. This tightened the muta ball into the space of a single muta and caused the attacks to be far more devastating, as instead of commanding a flock of mutas that completed a single volley over the span of about 2 seconds due to spread, all the mutas within the flock can ATTACK SIMULTANEOUSLY, allowing for much tighter overall control.
Also, enemies can no longer select individual mutas to pick out of the flock, as before. You can only a -cont
Zidana123 10 months ago
-cont The nature of air units, as Blizzard programmed the game, is to want to spread apart from one another. That's a completely separate idea from ACCELERATION and SPEED. Case in point, before muta STACKING was invented, players were already using high speed muta harass to great effect, but the mutas were not grouped up atop one another.
Then someone, realized by putting a non-muta unit, overlord or larva, into the muta group, and clicking rapidly, they could circumvent the game code -cont
Zidana123 10 months ago
BOTTOM LINE IS. @Zidana123 is bitter to how boxer wins against zerg players, he continually making statements making us believe that boxer is a "cheater". (maybe hes a zerg player or hes just fucking insecure) well my friend, stop trolling, stop arguing with us on the internet, and just play the fucking game with me. plain and simple. you being zerg, me being terran
riskbreakerrecca17 10 months ago
@riskbreakerrecca17 "he continually making statements making us believe that boxer is a "cheater". "
And can you disprove that he is a cheater? I say that he uses meta-game mechanics like allied mines and using command centers to 'squash' interceptors. You can see him doing these very things in this video. Are you going to sit there and try and tell me that actions like this AREN'T cheating?
Zidana123 10 months ago
@Zidana123 you want facts? BISU for protoss, Jaedong for Zerg and Flash for Terran. why do THESE PLAYERS EXCEL on those races? you know why? BECAUSE THEY KNOW HOW TO PLAY THE GAME, PLAIN AND SIMPLE. Dont be so narrow minded dude... pls help yourself :))
riskbreakerrecca17 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@riskbreakerrecca17 "BISU for protoss, Jaedong for Zerg and Flash for Terran. why do THESE PLAYERS EXCEL on those races? you know why? BECAUSE THEY KNOW HOW TO PLAY THE GAME, PLAIN AND SIMPLE."
I agree completely. What does that statement have to do with refuting anything I've said? Nothing. Note that I've not said anything about any other player. Only Boxer.
Zidana123 10 months ago
@riskbreakerrecca17 And as long as we're talking about 'BOTTOM LINE's, how about I tell you what the bottom line really is: you and the other fools in this thread trying to debate me have to resort to insults and calling me a troll because at the end of the day, you can neither defend your arguments with facts nor prove my arguments wrong.
If I really am bitter or insecure or a troll, you should be able to disprove my arguments, right? But you can't, can you? No, you can't.
Zidana123 10 months ago
Allied mines are illegal lol.
yue12321 10 months ago
just pro !
lr4iNM4kerl 11 months ago
the music is so bad
alexj0101 11 months ago
shit music.
brendameistar 11 months ago
whats with the awful 'music'
Londonravester 11 months ago
yeah :) boxer-
qprk111 11 months ago
@CTManiacu Straw manning it up against, I see. When did I ever say anything about being 'all equal' or 'no difference'? And what does comsat have to do with lift-off, which is the example which I gave? Last I heard CCs could fly from 0 seconds into the game, or did they patch that to require comsat too recently and I just wasn't aware of that change?
How about you address my actual argument instead of refuting some idiotic argument that you've come up with on your own?
Zidana123 1 year ago
43 people were in this video.
njxiong 1 year ago
is this starcraft? it kinda looks like pong.....lol
BASHMAN9t5 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
i dont think boxer would play on lost temple and python all the time idiot
jeewoo12 1 year ago
i dont think boxer would play on lost thempler and python all the time idiot
jeewoo12 1 year ago
@CTManiacu Actually, yes, I've been playing bw since about a month after release day. I can pretty much gurantee that's longer than you've been playing it.
"it just shows how bad you are that your argument is one unit has something another doesn't"
Yea, uhm, that's not my argument. Nice straw man you got going there. How about you read my argument, understand it, and refute it? Or are you just too stupid to comprehend?
Zidana123 1 year ago
Comment removed
Zidana123 1 year ago
How can you say that SC1 is fundementally more balanced than SC2 when the FIRST UNIT you start out with isn't balanced? CCs and Nexi cost the same, have the same hp, so why does the CC have a special ability and the Nexus does not?
In SC2, both units have special abilities. Now, are fly and chronoboost perfectly balanced against each other? No. But at least they're more balanced than fly and NO ABILITY AT ALL.
Zidana123 1 year ago
Only time will tell when Boxer's true skills are really shown. The maps and races are still imba in SC2, so you might not see his full potential. You may be giving Boxer some credit, but to call him a hack based on this video and some of his seemingly cheap play isn't the right way to judge a player's worth. Boxer was beyond that and I'm sure many others agree with me. That's all I have to say.
GravityXVoid 1 year ago
@GravityXVoid I'm not calling Boxer a hack based on this video. I'm calling him a hack based on his track and play record. I will admit, to even imagine clicking the ally box to give his mines an unfair advantage is a mental leap that the vast majority of people would not have made, myself included. But then, anyone with a sense of fair play wouldn't have actually gone ahead and USED it to gain an unfair advantage. THAT lack of a sense of fair play is why Boxer is a hack.
Zidana123 1 year ago
@GravityXVoid As for the maps and races are still imba in SC2 comment, I admit, the map pool sucks. But SC2, at the current state of development, is already leaps and bounds ahead of SC1 in balance. I'll give you an example:
SC1 - CC vs Nexus:
CC: 400m, 1500 hp, special ability: fly
Nexus: 400m, 1500 hp, special ability: NONE
SC2 - CC vs Nexus
CC: 400m, 1500 hp, special ability: fly
Nexus: 400m, 1500 hp, special ability: chronoboost
Why doesn't the nexus have an ability in SC1???
Zidana123 1 year ago
Comment removed
GravityXVoid 1 year ago
Not quite. SC2 is a game which favors macro more, while SC favors micro more. You just have to give him credit for being great in a game which had different mechanics. You're holding it against him for playing a game that had many things changed. Same applies for many ex BW players. It still doesn't discredit the fact that he was great at THAT era and game. Again, I say that he doesn't depend on many of the things that you consider cheap in order to be great.
GravityXVoid 1 year ago
@GravityXVoid Actually, both SC and SC2 favor micro and macro equally. It's just that SC2 has removed many of the more gimmick aspects of micro that were due to coding flaws in SC. Case in point, stacking mutas. There was no way Blizzard intended mutas to be used in that way during development. Stacking mutas are merely a manipulation of the game movement mechanics. As a result, it's extremely difficult to counter conventionally and requires things like storm and irradiate.
Zidana123 1 year ago
@Zidana123 So you want to counter stack mutas with marines? or wraith? lol you really are fucked up my friend. stacking mutas is NOT manipulating game movement mechanics. stack mutas is a strategy, wherein you take advantage of the mobility of MUTALISKS. on the other hand, iradiate, storm, valkyrie. MM, counter that, is that also merely a manipulation of game mechanics? think twice brad
riskbreakerrecca17 10 months ago
@riskbreakerrecca17 "So you want to counter stack mutas with marines? or wraith? lol you really are fucked up my friend."
When did I say anything about countering muta stacking with marines or wraith? I did not. It's not a refutation of my argument to attempt to put words in my mouth.
And no, Muta-stacking IS manipulating game movement mechanics. The nature of the muta is to spread apart. That has nothing to do with the MOBILITY of mutas. -cont
Zidana123 10 months ago
"The man has beastly micro. Sure, I'll admit to him having godlike micro. And that means what, exactly?"
I don't even know what to say to this, because this is just ridiculous. Having a great micro is what sets apart a Progamer and a regular gamer. Even amongst Progamers, Boxer's micro was considered insane. That was one of the main things that made him that great. Some of the things he did could be considered cheap, but regardless, his micro and builds were the best back in his prime.
GravityXVoid 1 year ago
@GravityXVoid I repeat: he has great micro, even among progamers. So what? Does that somehow nullify the fact that he's cheap? It does not. His micro abilities aren't relevant to the topic.
Zidana123 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Besides, Boxer is getting better at SC2, seeing how he's 5th on the ladder. His GSL perf weren't satisfactory, but the real GSL just started. Ur last statement is incorrect. If u think Boxer was credited for only relying on those cheap tactics to win, I'll ask u to watch more of his videos. Obviously, you still think he's cheap because of those things u mentioned, when in fact, those weren't the main reasons that made him great.
GravityXVoid 1 year ago
Besides, Boxer is getting better at SC2, seeing how he's 5th on the ladder. His GSL perf weren't satisfactory, but the real GSL just started. Ur last statement is incorrect. If u think Boxer was credited for only relying on those cheap tactics to win, I'll ask u to watch more of his videos. Obviously, you still think he's cheap because of those things u mentioned, when in fact, those weren't the main reasons that made him great.
GravityXVoid 1 year ago
@GravityXVoid Boxer is GETTING BETTER at SC2. That statement right there proves my point perfectly. He is GETTING BETTER, which means that he is adapting to an arena in which his overdependance on meta-gaming cheapness is punished. In order to make up for that lack he is being forced to develop greater actual SKILL.
I agree, Boxer's cheapness isn't what makes him a top-tier player. But that's neither here nor there. THIS VIDEO is full of examples of his cheapness and lauds them as great.
Zidana123 1 year ago
@Zidana123 EVERYONE is getting better at this game. Why are you hating on him so much anyways? He's one of the top 5 players atm in most people's opinions.
apollonius1994 1 year ago
@apollonius1994 I don't hate Boxer. I'm just pointing him out for the cheap glitch and imba-abusing cheater that he is. It is not automatically an act of hate to point out a man's faults.
He's one of the top 5 players atm in most peoples' opinions. Yes. True. And Hitler was one of the top government leaders in alot of Germans' opinions, once upon a time. Not comparing Boxer to Hitler, just pointing out the fallacy in saying 'people hold this person in high regard so therefore it is proof.'
Zidana123 1 year ago
@Zidana123 He IS one of the top 5 players atm not because out of fallacy, but because he can actually play and entertain people. If he IS an imba-abusing cheater, then he should have been kicked out of the starcraft league long time ago. Tell me why he isn't? Even the starcraft makers agreed that Slayer_Boxer is a "god" at starcraft and even invited him to huge events.
TheJOEster0000 1 year ago
@TheJOEster0000 Blizzard invited Boxer to Blizzcon not because they agreed that he is a 'god' at starcraft, but because they know that his name is a huge publicity draw and will serve to help legitimize SC2 among the ranks of the fans who continue to reject it simply because it is new.
As for why he wasn't kicked out of the leagues long ago, it's because his actions were declared cheating in retrospect, and he hasn't performed those particular cheats since. Doesn't make it not imba though.
Zidana123 1 year ago
@Zidana123 and the reason he's a huge publicity draw is because he is one of the best in the eyes of the public, and yes he is there to legitimize SC2.
I can tell where you're going with this, but there are going to be glitches that won't be fixed for the 'fun' of the game, for example; stacking mutas like u said was never intentionally put into the system, but it stayed within the game, why is that? it's cuz it helps create strats and is entertaining, it happens in SC2 too.
TheJOEster0000 1 year ago
@TheJOEster0000 That's where you're wrong. Those glitches that aren't fixed in SC1 aren't being left alone for the 'fun' of the game. They're being left alone because Blizzard just doesn't care enough to fix them, as they would require fundemental changes to the engine itself, as opposed to small tweaks like unit costs and movement speed.
Stacking mutas KILLS strats, actually. It's hell on balance and difficult to defend against, and all it has created is a culture where zerg rushes to -cont-
Zidana123 1 year ago
@Zidana123 ur right about he glitches, but Blizzard has been workin on starcraft's glitches/problems, as well as improvements for more than 10 years. Not everything that people want will be fixed, it's the same as the other games, there will NEVER be a game that'll be spot on perfect that has no glitches or problems.
'none of them do it nearly as much or as flagrantly as he has,' that seems more of a complement than criticism.
TheJOEster0000 1 year ago
@TheJOEster0000 "'none of them do it nearly as much or as flagrantly as he has,' that seems more of a complement than criticism." Only to those who have no sense of fairness.
And as for "Blizzard has been workin on SC's glitches/problems", it's not an issue of 'years,' because many years go by between patches. It's more an issue of 'how many patches in total,' and so far SC2 has ALREADY had a ton more patches than SC. Blizz basically stopped working on SC after around 2006.
Zidana123 1 year ago
@TheJOEster0000 -cont- spire because the faster they get spire the faster they can push out their 6 muta stacks.
Zidana123 1 year ago
@Zidana123 you got a point when it comes to mutas killing strats, but isn't that one of the basic play styles in starcraft? You can't just walk into another person's strat the whole time, you got to stop it somehow whether it's marine/medic, stack mutas, or just rushing all out. Sure that's unbalanced but that's why there's vessals, defilers, and other units for defence and such.
-con-
TheJOEster0000 1 year ago
@TheJOEster0000 "Sure that's unbalanced but that's why there's vessals, defilers, and other units for defence and such."
And therein lies the problem. It shouldn't be unbalanced to begin with. In a well-balanced game, there should be a variety of strats which are equally implementable, and have an equal chance of victory assuming a proper response by the enemy. What will then happen is people will use different strats according to their playstyle. But that's not the case. -cont-
Zidana123 1 year ago
@Zidana123 Kid that typed up seven pages. 1. That's your own definition of balance. 2. 90% of Zerg going mutalisk is A. A number you made up B. Not the best method AT ALL 3. Shut up.
sapfirewand 1 year ago
@sapfirewand "That's your own definition of balance."
You have no idea what balance is, do you?
How about I define it. Balance in an RTS game is a situation where game mechanics result in two players of equal skill have a 50% win/loss ratio over a long run. That's as simple as it gets.
Sorry, but that's THE definition of balance. You must be one of those people who can't actually define a word properly but only has a vague idea of what it means.
Zidana123 1 year ago
@Zidana123 muta stack < science vessel irradiate? do you think its imbalanced because EVERY ZERG PLAYER USE THAT? EVERY ZERG PLAYER USE THAT BECAUSE ITS EASY TO DO. but every MOVE has a counter. HOW COME SLAYERS BOXER OWNS 13 ZERG PLAYERS DOING THE SAME STRAT AS YOU HAVE SAID?
riskbreakerrecca17 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@riskbreakerrecca17 "do you think its imbalanced because EVERY ZERG PLAYER USE THAT? EVERY ZERG PLAYER USE THAT BECAUSE ITS EASY TO DO."
Easy to do? You must be joking. It's probably the second most APM-intensive zerg strat other than Defiler/Lurker/Zergling.
and as for "HOW COME SLAYERS BOXER OWNS 13 ZERG PLAYERS DOING THE SAME STRAT AS YOU HAVE SAID?"
Lessee, because he's a cheap meta mechanic abusing cheater? Cheating is a bit more imba than muta stacking.
Zidana123 11 months ago
@riskbreakerrecca17 "HOW COME SLAYERS BOXER OWNS 13 ZERG PLAYERS DOING THE SAME STRAT AS YOU HAVE SAID?"
Because he cheats. Have you read anything I've said? How about you read up on it and stop asking questions that I've already answered?
Zidana123 10 months ago
@Zidana123 NOPE NOT BECAUSE HE CHEATS, THATS BECAUSE EVERY ZERG PLAYER IS DOING THE SAME THING.. MUTA STACK. EARLY ExPAND, cmon men get over it. STARCRAFT IS A BALANCED GAME, TERRAN, ZERG AND PROTOSS have its pros AND cons. you just have to learn to study it. and when you answer my question sir please use a little logic ok? explain before you complain.
riskbreakerrecca17 10 months ago
@Zidana123 Dumb kid contradicted himself already. The American teenager on his keyboard is on a spree!
sapfirewand 10 months ago 11
@sapfirewand "chess must be imbalanced because we have move openings that are commonly used than others."
It's hilarious how you think calling me 12 is an insult, when you yourself don't know the first thing about competitive gaming.
Go to google and search for 'first move advantage in chess'.
Chess IS imbalanced, you fruit. Learn and educate yourself.
Zidana123 10 months ago
@Zidana123 THAT IS THE MOST FUCKING HILARIOUS THING I HAVE EVER HEARD WITH FIRST MOVE ADVANTAGE HAHAH! YOU REALLY DEPEND ON "GOOGLE" FOR FACTS?
riskbreakerrecca17 10 months ago
@riskbreakerrecca17 You've got no grounds on which to debate with me if you don't know about the first move advantage in chess. It's something that Chess Grand Masters have admitted to existing since the late 1800s. If you don't even know a little thing like that then you're just ignorant and have nothing worth saying about anything, sorry.
Zidana123 10 months ago
@Zidana123 oh my goodness, the 12 year old has confirmed that chess is imbalanced because of a first move. oh, let me list you some other things that are imbalanced: any type of board game and basketball as well, BECAUSE BACK FLIPPING INTO THE NET IS NOT A VALID STRATEGY, AND THE CURRENT SHOOTING FORM IS DOMINANT AND HENCE IT IS IMBALANCED.
Look, 9th grade kid, that was a great attempt at starting an empty argument with me. But unfortunately, SORRY, NOPE.
sapfirewand 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@sapfirewand "BECAUSE BACK FLIPPING INTO THE NET IS NOT A VALID STRATEGY, AND THE CURRENT SHOOTING FORM IS DOMINANT AND HENCE IT IS IMBALANCED."
Translation: Oh no! My entire argument has crumbled due to my ignorance! Time to sprout off gibberish in an effort to mask my stupidity!
Zidana123 10 months ago
@Zidana123 omg i recently checked my comment box and it seems that the american teenager who posted 39 pages of comment info talking about how irradiate does not counter muta-stacks and how chess is IMBALANCED has offered to tell me that my argument has crumbled
yo did it hurt when she hit you
sapfirewand 8 months ago
@sapfirewand "yo did it hurt when she hit you"
Translation: I can't think of anything valid to say so in a vague attempt to salvage my pride I'm going to post something vaguely resembling an insult that makes no sense whatsoever!
Zidana123 8 months ago
@Zidana123 so like irradiate doesn't counter muta-stacks and chess is imbalanced because it is turn based and must contain a first move right?
it doesn't take much intelligence to scroll through youtube and find a thirteen year old arguing about logic on a SLAYERS BOXER VIDEO for 25 pages through across a span of 12 months
or are you going to like IGNORE what i said above, and tell me im making an irrelevant insult again, you stupid little american niggershit
sapfirewand 8 months ago
@sapfirewand "or are you going to like IGNORE what i said above, and tell me im making an irrelevant insult again, you stupid little american niggershit"
And just what have you said above? Let us see.
"so like irradiate doesn't counter muta-stacks and chess is imbalanced because it is turn based and must contain a first move right?"
Yes, that is right. Thank you for repeating my argument while making none of your own. And btw, you DID make an irrelevant insult again.
Zidana123 8 months ago
@Zidana123 WELL YOU KNOW SAY SOMEONE WAS TRYING TO CONVINCE ME THAT ONE PLUS ONE IS ACTUALLY THREE, I WOULDN'T REALLY MAKE MY OWN ARGUMENT BECAUSE WHAT AM I SUPPOSE TO SAY ROFL, MAYBE YOU SHOULD TAKE YOUR ARGUMENT AND MAIL IT TO KESPA AND SOME INTERNATIONAL CHESS COMPETITIONS BECAUSE YOU BELIEVE THAT BY YOUR DEFINITION OF BALANCE, CHESS AND STARCRAFT ARE CURRENTLY UNFAIR TO BE PLAYED LOL SMART 13 YEAR OLD KID
sapfirewand 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@sapfirewand "WELL YOU KNOW SAY SOMEONE WAS TRYING TO CONVINCE ME THAT ONE PLUS ONE IS ACTUALLY THREE"
Translation: "OH NO I HAVE NOTHING INTELLIGENT TO SAY SO I WILL JUST SWITCH TO TYPING IN ALL CAPS BECAUSE IT WILL SOMEHOW ADD MORE WEIGHT TO MY NONSENSE WORDS"
Zidana123 8 months ago
@Zidana123 yeah because when chess is played today, we REALLY are competing with two infinitely capable machines that process the entire game tree in an instant and so first or second move really matters. and of course, every zvt match that has been played in a decade was secretly imbalanced because I, Zidana123, Alabama Gr 8 Gifted Program, assigned some tier numbers and by intuition and a few skips of thought, determined that all korean progamers practising 12 hours a day are actually BLIND
sapfirewand 8 months ago
@sapfirewand When did I say that chess is "two infinitely capable machines that process the entire game tree in an instant"? or that korean programers are BLIND? How about you address my actual arguments instead of straw-manning it up?
Do you actually having a working brain in there? Or are you some kind of parrot who just repeats insults that he's heard over the years, with no understanding of how or why they are insulting? Age? Race? You've got no idea how insults even work, do you?
Zidana123 8 months ago
@Zidana123
Zidana123: Chess is imbalanced because of first move.
Zidana123: Muta-stack is imbalanced
Hello, when a human fights a human in chess or Starcraft, does it matter?
Hi. I'm graduating to high school next Monday, hbu
sapfirewand 8 months ago
@sapfirewand "Hello, when a human fights a human in chess or Starcraft, does it matter?"
Yes, yes it does matter. At the professional level, little things like first move advantage or muta stack are magnified, far more than in games between non-professional players. And if you call yourself a fan of starcraft you would know this. Professional players are so good at taking advantage of weakness that very few professionals can recover from an early disadvantage, in both chess and starcraft.
Zidana123 8 months ago
@Zidana123 I'm sorry but there are plenty of arguments all over TL about matchup imbalances, and given how SC was developed, there obviously exist imbalances. And guess what, even the top S class players show enough inconsistencies, lack of scouting, and occasional slumps over time that these things, especially MUTALISK STACK IMBALANCE, which I have never heard or seen, or noticed in any video, really does not make a difference in the overall score.
sapfirewand 8 months ago
@sapfirewand "I'm sorry but there are plenty of arguments all over TL about matchup imbalances, and given how SC was developed, there obviously exist imbalances."
Very interesting you should say that. Because if you'll go back and look at my original point, all I said was that the imbalance EXISTED. I never mentioned anything about it impacting the overall score. You were the one that first attempted to straw man my argument with all these externalities about score or human ability.
Zidana123 8 months ago
@Zidana123 Well, you're pretty smart because by your level of strictness, imbalances exist in every sport, game or anything ever made, except for rock paper scissors using quantum particles. And that's exactly what you did for the last 3000 comments you made: A rant about nothing, arguing for something whose conclusion doesn't affect anything but demonstrating to yourself how great you are at making an argument. Good job, kiddo.
sapfirewand 7 months ago
@sapfirewand So in the end, you're admitting you were wrong?
Thanks, hon. That's all I wanted to hear, lol.
Zidana123 7 months ago
@Zidana123 Teenage kid begins a 104-comment long youtube rant on absurd things that have no effect on anything, telling anybody who insults him they don't have the brains to prove him wrong, and anybody who tells him he's talking about absolutely pointless things is claimed to be attacking a strawman and is wrong. Whatever you say, chief
sapfirewand 7 months ago
@sapfirewand First it was 3000, and now it's down to 104.
What, you can't even keep your insults straight?
"telling anybody who insults him they don't have the brains to prove him wrong"
Well, yea. Are you gonna sit there and try to tell me that it's not true? If someone instantly resorts to insults as juvenile as race and age, they pretty much don't have the brains to prove anyone wrong.
And you've demonstrated that yourself pretty well, I'd say.
Zidana123 7 months ago
@Zidana123 Golden rule here: If an imbalance exists that tilt towards a particular side given the current skill level of human gameplay, then the professional league wouldn't even exist
sapfirewand 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@sapfirewand Uhm, no. The golden rule is "Do unto others what you would have them do unto you." Although I guess you clearly had no idea what it was, given your behavior.
"If an imbalance exists that tilt towards a particular side given the current skill level of human gameplay, then the professional league wouldn't even exist"
You wanna support that statement with any evidence there? What are you saying, exactly? If say, Protoss was the most powerful, everyone would play Protoss?
Zidana123 8 months ago
@Zidana123 Or are we going to play this game, where you pretend you don't know what I'm talking about lolololololololololol funny internet kid is funny
sapfirewand 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@sapfirewand I'm gonna be honest with you. The only thing you've said that actually made any sense has been "Hello, when a human fights a human in chess or Starcraft, does it matter?"
The rest has been a spout of awkward gibberish and random insults with no context or meaning. Sorry, I actually don't know what you're talking about.
Zidana123 8 months ago
@Zidana123 The existence of first move imbalance in chess or whatever about BW you think doesn't. have. any. significant. impact. when. two. fucking. humans. (read: Human) are. playing. the. game.
If you want that kind of standard, like I said, basketball is also imbalanced, like almost any other game you would possibly invent with the exception of fucking rock paper scissors.
sapfirewand 8 months ago
@sapfirewand Congratulations on the first actual argument you've presented. And it's only taken you what, a couple of months? I'm proud of you, I really am.
Actually, by that standard, basketball is MORE balanced than chess and BW. There is no first move advantage in basketball. The ref throws the ball up and the starters scrabble for it desperately, at the very limit of their physical skill. The game starts at the same instant of time for both teams. Thus, the starting conditions are balanced.
Zidana123 8 months ago
@Zidana123 speaking of which, smart us kid offering his little analysis on brood war, maybe you should watch some 2010-2011 replays of 3 hatch mutalisk versus turrets, and watch the transition into science vessels, and really watch how much damage the mutalisks actually does instead of generating up your little hypothetical tier numbers, and concluding that you're right, black boy
sapfirewand 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@sapfirewand Actually, I -have- "watch some 2010-2011 replays of 3 hatch mutalisk versus turrets, and watch the transition into science vessels, and really watch how much damage the mutalisks actually does", and from those replays I -have- concluded that I'm right.
Zidana123 8 months ago
@sapfirewand Whoa... I checked the comments to see what the fuss was about.... I was reading on and on until I read that Zidana123's name was mentioned 104 times (105 now)... O_o Everyone is mad at him? People disagreeing and ranting.... -_-
lzrd0113 7 months ago
@Zidana123 It's like I'm watching some kespa videos and this 12 year old emerges from his hut and begins to explain why mutalisk stack implies the game is imbalanced. fuck chess must be imbalanced because we have move openings that are commonly used than others. fuck you need to hit age 15 already o man.
sapfirewand 10 months ago
@TheJOEster0000 -cont- when one strat is significantly more powerful/has a better chance of success than all the others, players will innately gravitate to it and use it above all others, regardless of their playstyle. It's a natural progression. People want to win. So when you see something like 90+% of all zerg going muta stacking against Terran, (and realistically speaking, that IS the figure these days) it means something is wrong with your game's balance.
Zidana123 1 year ago
@Zidana123 im sorry but muta stack is counterable for a stack of marines or a science vessel. geez im really ROFL right now with your statement.
riskbreakerrecca17 10 months ago
@Zidana123
I don't see why he would be considered cheating if he finds ways/strategies to take advantage of his opponents other than pausing the game. Sure the allied mines was pretty bad which is why that was banned from the SC league, but many people do this outside of the league too, which would make them cheaters. Also, if his actions are considered "cheating" wouldn't that make almost everyone in the SC league cheating as well? They also do things that Boxer has done, he's not the first.
TheJOEster0000 1 year ago
@TheJOEster0000 "many people do this outside of the league too, which would make them cheaters." Yes, they ARE also cheaters. Woe to the games on ICCup and B.net where this is done due to having no oversight in these avenues of play. And of course Blizzard isn't interested in patching SC to making it invalid, so it persists. Doesn't make it legit.
Yes, other players in the SC leagues also do the things that Boxer has done. But none of them do it nearly as much or as flagrantly as he has.
Zidana123 1 year ago
That's your opinion. Finding elements outside the game isn't necessarily cheating, unless Blizzard deemed it to be broken. Also, I like how you're criticizing my name calling, while you're calling Boxer a "cheap bastard". I went to many forums, and you're the very first person that I heard that from. How about his beastly micro? Surely, you don't think he's a cheap bastard from having a godlike micro? lol
GravityXVoid 1 year ago
@GravityXVoid Of course finding elements outside the game is cheating, regardless of whether or not Blizzard deems it to be broken. The definition of 'cheating' is violating the rules of the game. The rules of the game are not written by Blizzard, but by the SC sports industry itself. The coaches and judges outlawed things like floating drones and allied mines, so those elements are by definition cheating.
Zidana123 1 year ago
@GravityXVoid The man has beastly micro. Sure, I'll admit to him having godlike micro. And that means what, exactly? The things he does which make him a cheap bastard are not negated by him having micro skills, and him having micro skills is not negated by him being a cheap bastard.
I'm not going to deny him credit for what he's good at, but the fact remains that he's a cheap cheating bastard that relies overmuch on meta-gaming tricks to win.
Zidana123 1 year ago
Comment removed
GravityXVoid 1 year ago
LOL no, I'm sane and there's only one idiot I'm talking to here.... YOU! Anyway, forget that. What's important is that it seems to me, you're trying to label Boxer like he's some kind of hack, but honestly at least give credit to him for finding cool stuff like allied mines and making Terrans stronger. I admit, they (allied mines) were broken, which is why they were banned. Point is, he deserves the fame he has today. Nothing can take away his legacy in SC.
GravityXVoid 1 year ago
@GravityXVoid I'm not trying to label Boxer like he's some kind of hack. The man IS a hack, pure and simple. There is no credit given to cheaters finding new ways to cheat.
The credit which he DOES deserve is for his role in making SC popular and by becoming a household name (in Korea). All sports need their heroes, Babe Ruth, that Young fellow, Michael Jordan, Muhammad Ali, Hulk Hogan (yes, I know wrestling is fake), Boxer. Glory to him for that.
Zidana123 1 year ago
@GravityXVoid But that still doesn't change the fact that he is a cheating bastard who likes to jump on the cheapest and easiest way to win without actually playing the game as intended.
There is a difference between say, legitimately dodging lurkers with a handful of marines and killing them (That's SKILL), and spamming a fly and land button on a CC to kill Interceptors. And as I said in my original comment, half the stuff in the video is meta-game shit like that.
Zidana123 1 year ago
Also, what your saying is just retarded. If Boxer's play is cheap like you claimed, then why are many people still crediting him for being the most accomplished progamer hmm? Again, I ask you to face off against any of these players and tell that to their face. Terran play is what it is today because of Boxer. Insulting him is insulting all those pro terran players as well. Fucking faggot is just jealous because he's some nobody. XDD
GravityXVoid 1 year ago
@GravityXVoid "Fucking faggot is just jealous because he's some nobody. XDD" Who are you talking to? Yourself? Your invisible friend? Kinda weird when you derail from direct statements to me to someone else... >_>
People credit Boxer for being the most accomplished programer because of his role in popularizing StarCraft. Even I credited him with that, if you'd bothered to read my original post, which you clearly haven't. Doesn't mean he's a good player. Just means he's iconic.
Zidana123 1 year ago
Comment removed
Zidana123 1 year ago
@GravityXVoid Oh, and no, I'm not insulting those other players. Most of them have at least some shred of self-dignity and aren't willing to resort to meta-gaming like allied mines in order to win.
But if YOU'RE a terran player who uses the same cheap tricks as Boxer, then hell yea, I'm insulting you.
Zidana123 1 year ago
LOLOLOL... SC2 is a much more balanced game? Who the fuck are you? Have you even played both games? Right now in the BW proleague, the protosses are dominating in the ranks, while terrans and zergs are little bit behind. In SC2 people are QQ about how much terrans are IMBA and the maps are shit. Obviously you took too much retard cake to not even realize that.
GravityXVoid 1 year ago
@GravityXVoid Yes, because clearly comparing the BW proleague to the SC2 'people' is a fair comparision. Really. Nothing like comparing apples and oranges at all!
How about you compare the proleagues or the people in each case, instead of making up stuff?
Zidana123 1 year ago
Comment removed
GravityXVoid 1 year ago
@GravityXVoid And when did I claim to not care? How about you read what I said again, lol?
As for as scrub mentality, you're the one who's guilty of that. If you were truely a boxer fan, you wouldn't feel the need to insult someone with childish insults like 'faggot' or 'piece of shit' or no name 'scrub.' You'd just see it, think 'that person's wrong' and move on. But your insults ultimately show that you're insecure in your regard, or else why would you feel so threatened?
Zidana123 1 year ago
Pft, half the stuff in this video is just Boxer abusing Terran imba like the cheap bastard he is. All glory to the Emperor and all that, credit where credit is due for his role in popularizing SC, but honestly, most of Boxer's skill lies in figuring out the cheapest possible ways in which to use units and then practicing those uses to death. Entertaining? Only if you like watching cheapness.
And the proof of that is that he's not particularly good at SC2, since it's a much more balanced game
Zidana123 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Try Naughty women and success your life mworld5.info
uhytiful 1 year ago
Comment removed
GravityXVoid 1 year ago
Comment removed
Zidana123 1 year ago
@GravityXVoid Clearly you do, otherwise you wouldn't have felt the need to post that.
The hilarious part is that you're so offended by my calling out of your hero for what he really is that you have to announce to the world that you don't care. You know what people who really don't care do? They don't say anything.
Zidana123 1 year ago
@Zidana123 Funny thing is, Boxer did indeed get to the round of 4 in GSL2. I would consider that a "round of note", yes?
What Boxer did is nothing short of pure genius. He took up what was, at the beginning of his career, probably the weakest race and made it a force to reckon with. His micro was unparalleled. His timing knowledge were precise, his thinking creative.
SC2 is nowhere NEAR as balanced as SC1, and good players require tricks AND strategy. W/out one, the other is useless.
apollonius1994 1 year ago
@apollonius1994 Yes, Boxer took the weakest race and made it a force to reckon with, but not with creative thinking. He did it with cheapness and imba abuse of meta-game concepts. He doesn't win through strategy or tactics, he takes advantage of trickery. Trickery isn't the mark of a good player. It's the mark of a sub-par player who needs to be cheap to win.
As for your claim that SC2 isn't as balanced, how about some proof to back that up?
Zidana123 1 year ago
@Zidana123 Do you even play SC2? Have you ever played BW in your life? Boxer is not just known for the "tricks" above, but also for his general gamesense and micro.
SC2 is a NEW GAME compared to BW. It has roughly 6 months of balancing. You telling me that these 6 months > 12 years of BW tweaking? eg. Terran SCV Marine All - ins have a CRAZY winrate vs. zerg. I, as a mediocre player can beat several much stronger players with it. I wanna see proof from you that SC2 is more balanced than BW.
apollonius1994 1 year ago
@apollonius1994 Is that a rhetorical question? Do you honestly believe that anyone who would post in a video about an e-sport celebrity hasn't played that game?
For your information I've been playing SC since 1998. I started before BW even existed. I remember when missile turrets were 100m, when dropships were 50% slower, when larvae would crawl off creep to attack in terran09, and when marines were useless cannon fodder.
The 12 years of BW tweaking never addressed the fundemental -cont-
Zidana123 1 year ago
@apollonius1994 issues that plague the game. Scouts are still useless. Wraiths are still useless. Queens are still useless. The pathing is still broken. Dragoons and Goliaths can't climb ramps and run in circles half the time. I'm talking about FUNDEMENTAL unit balance and coding issues.
You're talking about strategy. SCV Marine allins have a crazy winrate vs zerg, you say. Sure. True. But then, zerg players have a crazy tendency to go FE, which is weak against early pressure and rushes.
Zidana123 1 year ago
i have no idea whats happening
LehmannDaHero 1 year ago 38
HEY KNEEGROW WHAT YOU KNOW ABOUT LIL BOOSY LIL NIGGA
TORENCE HATCH LIL NIGGA
redblueflash 1 year ago
Comment removed
Zidana123 1 year ago
@Zidana123 SC2 balance? The man had to serve his country and by that time he was considered to head into retirement. He is VERY good at SC2. You're just very stupid.