It was not aimed at any audience. The mormon cow who wrote the series was a mormon. That explains a lot. I don't tink she where expressing her dream and what her imagination had to offer which she felt was very apealing. I think it's mediocre. Threre's a lot of shit out there. There are logical inonsistencies in it but Edwards od behaviour was supposed to be a result of trauma. Could you suggest some good stories which are much more complex and contains much more insightful writing?
The thing that bugs me about Twilight and its ilk is that there are so many people who seem to think it's cool and quirky to be into crappy entertainment. I blame it on the ubiquitousness of ironic humour - suddenly we don't have to be ashamed of enjoying utter garbage because we can pretend it makes us unique and nerdy-chic. It drives me mad. No, you're not quirky, you're a single 30 yr old woman who likes a poorly constructed teen romance.
Ah yes the issue of Jerks Everywhere. If Everybody is a Jerk and as tvthropes will show you [good website] a jerk here or there is not a bad thing. But if everybody is a Jerk.. nobody cares.
That would be an improve if Megatron did rip one of the character's heads off, Transformers just looks like tin can trash anyway. I wouldn't even bother with Twilight and the Transformers,sequels, Transformers is only for the special effects not the plot.
Such a goddamn shame that Mike J. Nelson is not only a conservative Christian apologist, but cites as one of his idols the profoundly dishonest William Lane Craig.
Sam's PARENTS being killed would be amusing (since they're actively trying to be obnoxious). Sam, not so much, at least after the first movie when he's actually become moderately useful.
I think I read an interview or something with Stephanie Meyer that Edward is like her dream boyfriend. So while I respect her mental 'willpower' I guess it would be called for writing a book (the longest work of fiction I have written is presently about 10 chapters of 3 pages each), her 'rational thought' in regards to it is...I doubt it's a joke.
Also, from what I remember, in the book Bella is made out to be "perfect". Of course then she's just a Mary Sue and is given no reason to be liked.
The thing that bothers me most about Twilight is that there are a lot of people saying it's mediocre. It's not mediocre, it freaking sucks and you know it. It is the most banal, soul-sucking, boring, shallow, trivial, unrealistic, illogical , lackluster piece of vampire-trash ever to be released upon humanity.
@OfMalta I don't think people are saying poor Bella, we're pointing her flaws as well as everyone elses in the book. & who's the person unrelated to the book in which that statement is saying very troubling things of? Makes no sense...She also is not solely responsible for being the cause for people to be at each others neck constantly. Jacob & Edward were going to fight over her regardless because they just have to show who's brooding ego is bigger & better for her.Fuck this book!Waste of Time!
@OfMalta boyfriend, and a father that doesn't really know her that well and thinks just cuz she's living with him it'll all be dandy but thats not realistic. And she is of legal age. Its just a retarded book anyway with unrealistic circumstances and events that like I said, the fact we are debating this is funny to me. Can you believe I actually have the whole Twilight book collection? Well I guess if I run out of toilet paper and bibles to clean my butt, I could always use that.
@OfMalta which proves he's a manipulator also and shows her emotional weakness once again. Jacobs not really nice. Especially when he also says he'd rather have her dead than alive just because she might grow some fangs as if he owns her. And logically speaking it's no ones business if you get pregnant because her father doesn't own her but it is kinda shady, I will give you that. And she didn't really destroy a family that she never had. Parents divorced, a mom that rather be with her baseball
@OfMalta I will make one last rebuttlal because the fact we are arguing over a crappy book is pathetic, I'm sure you can agree to that. Okay so Jacob is just as much of a douchebag/asshole as Edward being that he force face slobbered her and held her against her will and the fact that she punched him after proves it, also he pretends in the vampire battle in the eclipse book that he's angry and doesn't care if he dies fighting just so he can once again get Bella to kiss him and make him stay,
@OfMalta Edwards more of a manipulative bitch than Bella in my opinion. He buys her things for forgiveness, sets a lot of the rules,prevents her from doing things he doesn't like & makes her do things HE wants like prom, marriage, driving an expensive car.Which nice guy are you refering to in such mistreatment? & if anything she treats her father decently by always being in the kitchen and doing stuff around the house for him, so please be more specific. Lets not make this a one sided argument.
Bella and Edward are two manipulative, bitchy, peas in a pod who deserve one another. Poor Jacob never stood a chance. "Oh, your arse-hat boyfriend dumped you? Here, let me help and console you." - Wrong move, Buckaroo!
The series is not a romance, it's a tragedy. It should be titled "The Poor Nice Wolf Who Became a Paedophile Uncle."
The worst part is that Meyer writes it all as though Jacob should be happy with his lot. She's completely clueless!
@threewiseman1 "The Poor Nice Wolf Who Became a Paedophile Uncle." Thats actually a fantastic title. But remember, according to stephenie meyer he doesn't look at the baby in that way,only until she starts growing tits & stops aging. The fact that no one who read that part thought to themselves,"He will be counting down the days and waiting till he can have sex with the baby" is kinda mind boggling. & don't forget the, "Oh I used to be in love w/ your mom where I wanted to have sex with her, and
"But remember, according to stephenie meyer he doesn't look at the baby in that way"
That was my point about Meyer being clueless. The rate at which the kid was growing, she was going to be 5 years old and have the body of an 18 year old girl. His sexual desire was going to kick in well before her intellectual maturity. And Edward was fine with it! "Yeah sure dude, you can have sex with my kid, just wait til puberty, it'll happen faster than you think ;)"
@threewiseman1 I even battled your father over who wins her heart, I force kissed her, cuddled with her, manipulated her into kissing me again, swayed with her at her prom, and at her wedding day, but none of that matters anymore because now I love you and you are my soulmate. Honestly Renesme, I love only you and I will never think of your mom in that way again!" And Renesme is supposed to be okay with that too. Reading between the lines makes the whole story fucking gross.
@threewiseman1 I force kissed her, then I manipulated her into kissing me again, I wanted to make babies with her, we cuddled a few times, I swayed with her at her prom, and at her wedding, and I fought with your dad over her and I would flash my manly pectoral muscles at her to make her blush but none of that matters anymore because I have you now and we are meant to be Renesme. I promise I will never think of your mom in a sexual way again. It's not like that anymore."
I know numerous college educated women with advanced degrees who like the Twilight series. One woman I know even has a quote from the book tattooed on her arm. It baffles the shit out of me. Those twilight movies are garbage.
Problem with the human race: Stupid people outnumber intelligent people by a large order of magnitude, they also breed at an exponential rate by comparison. Intelligent people are an endangered species! lol
Whether she admits it or not, Meyer wrote the Twilight series as a thinly veiled metaphor for Mormonism. Women are rewarded for being submissive (yet at the same time passive aggressive) and powerless to their men who have all the real power and authority. The similarities continue through the entire book. As a former Mormon I'm embarrassed at how thinly veiled the books are, but perhaps I only see the symptoms so clearly because I'm so familiar with the illness.
I agree, most movies nowadays are either really, really bad or mediocre. But I think you're being bit hard on America culture here. I could be wrong on this but aren't these films popular pretty much world wide? Directors like Micheal Bay seem to rely heavily on aesthetics like CG and attractive "actors" instead of substance. I don't think these movies are big because people are stupid, these movies are big because people are shallow. But what can you do?
Actually the exportation of American culture has the opposite effect on terrorism. Fairly recent studies have shown that people are less likely to have anti-west sentiments if they view western entertainment. On the other hand, the ones that were most popular were things that came out in the 1990's (Friends, Seinfeld, and that movie where Melanie Griffith plays an alcoholic are among the most popular). Interesting stuff.
Bella isn't meant to be a well defined character. The female reader is meant to project themselves onto her rather than being distracted by her. The movies are popular because the books are and they're popular because they let the reader imagine themselves into a magical impossible love story.
Transformers sold tickets because everyone loved transformers as a kid. That's it. The human side of it all is really just meant to be filler until the big robots come on and do battle.
@Lloyath This is unfortunately true. It's like gonzo porn. I girls sucking the camera-man's (or what we're supposed to think is the camera man) dick, and we're supposed to picture it as us. The problem with Bella is that she's weak, obsessive, shallow, and submissive to a total asshole. Why not have a book series for girls that's more like Buffy or Daria where you have a wide variety of people, some of whom you can identify, others, not so much.
As far as the Transformers; that's exactly why they sucked. I would have loved the movies if the human characters were virtually taken out (like the Transformers animated movie). While that might not have been more compelling, at least it would have a bunch of giant robots fighting and virtually no annoying characters.
Every girl wants a guy that's tall, uber strong, mysterious, stalkerish, filfthy rich, possessive (cuz he'd only be looking out for our best interest since women don't have brains) he has to be super hot like Adonis too & every guy wants a timid,shy, weak, irrational (so he can make all the decisions) well scented, compliant girl.
@tooltime9901, plz tell me there are more guys like you in the world, cuz I have only encountered douchebags in person and fail fantasy characters in books. :(
I really enjoy the aesthetics of that self-portrait; you've got your hair flopping just right, and that perfect look of Tom Waits-style contented discontent on your face. I keep trying something like it, but I can never pull it off.
I love your comparison to the democratic popular participation criticism in Ancient Greece--clearly something we should return to.
I guess it depends on what you're attracted to. I find Kristen Stewart very hot. But that's just me. And yeah, I don't like the whole fad the Twilight movies have been blown into. Sure I'll watch it, and I like it, but I'm not like one of those Twi-hard fans.
@umki55es Kristen Stewart is attractive, although the Twilight movies seem to down play that as much as possible to make her seem like an average girl. what I mean is she is not a Maxim-uber-hot all the frat boys want to fuck her type. I thought she did a good job as Joan Jett
I've been told I'm like Edward by an Ex.. Loving/silent/loyal/blunt. I've never seen the movie. But Those definitions are true. In reality I am very blunt and straightforward. I do not cheat and I'm somewhat loving at times. I also prefer to let others talk before me and somwehat attractive.
These characteristics tend to appeal some girls and some women looking for a lasting relationship. And lets be honest, women pick their mates. And Women fantasize.
The fact that the masses glefully and with great appetite happily consume, and always want more of, the most retardet "reality" shows and the most worthless and least thought-provoking films seems to suggest they are, in fact, (at least) as stupid and shallow as they are percived to be
@IVscythia and its not only that the people wathcing are shallow and stupid (to some degree) they seem to be getting progressively more so as they consume more and more of these insults to inteligence and good taste
You give these artists way too much credit. Yes, there is a technical process to writing and editing and all that stuff. But there's also a sense of detachment when you're working on a project. You have to divorce yourself from your work to some extent, and that is what Stephanie Meyers and Michael Bay do. That's what any artist does. What these movies are however, is indicative of the artist's mental maturity.
Ok, you know what, Romeo and Juliet is NOT a great love story, if you actually break it down.
Some twenty-something year old dude SAW a thirteen year old girl he wanted to bang, instantly fell 100% in love, and she instantly fell 100% in love with him in return, and after a few hours of Angst, the two of them went full Emo and died in a crypt.
It was the Twilight of it's age, except instead of a mortal girl and a vampire, it was a tween and a pedophile.
I think that hollywood has become so hollow, that the people responsible for these movies have become such soulless, mindless, insubstantial pop-culture-vampires that they actually dont realize how bad these characters are. I think they actually believe these people ARE relatable, that this is how the rest of the world really works,
It isn't always like that I wan't to be the main character in the movie - I wouldn't like to be a Vin Diesel in F&F even though he's the cool guy. sometimes i just like to read (or see) a book (or a movie) about an average person with average problems. The REALLY cool thing is, when those things get mixed up - like in fight club, where a regular guy gets thrown into a weird scenario. maybe ppl just have inferiority complexes ;)
thanks about this rant. the same thing is going on with youtube...where the front page is plastered with the same stupid neon coloured (sometimes misleading) thumbnails feeding you shitty entertainment.
It's simple cost benefit analysis. The more complex a story, the narrower the appeal. This means you'll necessarily sell fewer tickets, that means the big investment that goes into making a movie won't necessarily be recouped. It's not about stupid or smart, it's about general and specific. Everybody likes special effects.
The sick sad truth about is that these DO appeal to the average youth because they are just as unlikeable, just as shallow, just as one-dimensional. If you threw a Hollister hoodie on either Sam or Bella, instantly indistinguishable from the rest of the herd mentality driven youth. Just walk to the mall or bus station, you'll see them standing outside, hoping someone sees them smoking :\
You don't think Kristin Stewart is attractive? I get that seeing her in Twilight has enformed your opinion on this, but as someone who agrees with you I can't deny she's pretty.
@VirtuesPenumbra I don't think he meant that she isn't attractive at all - but that she isn't the ideal for pure sexual beauty (as I like to call it) like for example megan fox who is just a whore (sry) who didnt make porn yet. Many Girls are pretty - probably the average girl isn't pretty, but the ideal for a "perfect" looking girl is not a kirsten stewart, and that's what it's all about: the idea of what's an ideal or not. sry if my comment contains some mistakes - my english isnt THAT good ;)
@VirtuesPenumbra I guess a Twihard is someone who's obsessed with the movies/books as a whole, not only (but also) with the actors ;) and even if, what's the matter?^^
The idea behind the "bad at everything" character is (also) a psychological thing... the idea is that seeing someone worse off from you will make you feel sorry for them, in turn create empathy, in turn create attachment (i.e. you want to see the character turn into a perfect person by the end). How much does Sam Witwicky fulful this by the end of each movie is a separate question, but it's an irrelevant one - if you want him to get himself together, the sterotype has done its work.
Most movies today SUCK. Especially comedy. What passes for funny today astounds me. That's what Blu-ray/DVD are for i can watch older films that were actually good. The 70's were the best IMO.
Considering attendance records of movies are going down, I think you're preaching to the choir and the choir making up a large majority of the people. And let's face it; Twilight is marketed to teenagers; it's working on hormones, nothing else. Transformers is working off of nostalgia back when Transformers was still good.
@3DMaster Can you explain to me when ever Transformers was "Good"? back when I was a kid and they came along I thought "What cheap crap is that?" The animations were horrible - even back then I could see that already, having watched good animation before - and the stories and characters completely ridiculous. Come on... "Decepticons"? The same goes for all the other "we have a toy and want to sell it" series like He Man or GI Joe... ->
@commanderkruge -> All this shit taking place in violent universes in which never ever someone dies (Autobots don't count because they are fucking ROBOTS!) - which makes all the violence become non-consequential and thus totally ruins the suspense one would expect from such stories... In Star Trek at least some redshirts die from time to time, but Jerry did meaner things to Tom than Skeletor in his whole existence... Crap. Crap. Crap.
@kalsolarUK They were adequate proof that George lucas' scriptwriting ability regressed from the original trilogy and that his casting director was basically incompetent
@mrsanity Important point to remember: Lucas -didn't- write the scripts for Empire or Jedi. He had final say, but the dialogue etc isn't actually his. That's why 5 & 6 flow better than 4 or any of the prequels, which Lucas did write.
These movies are targeted to a younger generation. Those people don't really know or expect to be entertained intellectually anyway. Dudes want explosions, but Transformers can't just be a movie with explosions so they threw Sam in there for the sake of "OK FINE It's a movie Here's the stupid plot." Girls who don't know shit about relationships will absorb every minute of Twilight and will now expect relationships to work in that way. That's it. What did you expect?
By and large Americans are not interested in cerebral pursuits in the first place. When they go to the cinema, the last thing they want to see is some artistic reflection of reality that would actually cause brain activity. They just want mindless spectacle. It's a symptom of a much larger problem. BTW, disagree on Kirsten. She's quite lovely, although I haven't seen any of those ridiculous movies...
Making Bella average-looking is smarter than making her really really hot. It makes it easier to relate to her and the fantasy of having the prettiest guys in the world fighting for you even if your not Megan Fox is a nice one.
The producers are spineless and rely on well-established blueprints so as to not take financial risks. I think it is their fault more so than the audience. If better movies came out directed at teens, people would flock to those.
Yeah, I think it's all a cruel joke, the world is being trolled! Things will only truly change once each individual detaches from the hive mind. Now that would be something, I have no idea what, but that's the best part.
I think this also relates to the way most horror movies now hand us a buffet of victims who are all such odious douchebags that we eagerly await their deaths, instead of protagonists we identify with and care about, and wonder why audiences are not frightened or disturbed when they die.
@GoblinXXX funny, I had a similar thought, except that I would praise horror movies for giving people what they want. douchebags should die. I mean really, who the fuck would care about a bunch of teenagers partying in the woods anyway?
@tooltime9901 People who want THAT can go down to the slaughterhouse and watch hogs being butchered. When I pay for a horror movie, I want to actually be scared. I love blood and gore the same way I love ketchup (on my french fries? NO!) along with something more substantial, not by itself.
@tooltime9901 Yeah, but on the other hand douche bags getting killed isn't scary. It's satisfying. Yes, I do think that horror movies should at least try to be scary.
The authors (screenwriters, whatever) don't need to be stupid, only the culture does. Kim Kardashian vs. Bella Swan in the TITANIC BATTLE OF ALL TIME!!! Coming this Friday to a tabloid/cable network/theater near you . . .
Sam is a pretty horrible character. I mean, the guy has super model girlfriends, a badass transforming car and he's saved the world twice, yet bitches about everything and treats his car like shit. What the fuck?
when i was a kid every one wanted to grow up to be a adult now every one wants to grow up to be a teenanger :( about transformers because of sam I can not watch this movie it so sad
The real question is who would you want dead first, Sam Witwicky or his english girlfriend from the latest transformers tripe?
Megatron should have just fucking crushed her. Listening to her and then being manipulated? That's not the gigantic robot villain that I know and love.
If you want to appeal to the largest segment of people, then they would be targeting a group +/- about a standard deviation from 100, which the way they are gauged means all the way down to 85. Targeting an audience of 86-115 IQ scores would get you about 70% of people. (If we're taking IQ to really be worth anything.)
I think part of the reason why characters like in the transformers movies are not incredibly smart or capable, is that the story writers want their triumph not to be because they're smarter than everyone, but because they're courageous or determined or something like that... with the idea being that people who walk away feel inspired saying "I could do that" rather than seeing some super-genius fix something and them to feel like it doesn't relate to them because they aren't that smart.
If the director was on cocaine I am sure it would be far more interesting; also only Americans think America is the greatest country. America is largely built on the dreams and aspirations of the 'common man'.
I blame americas current culture on the wizard of oz
The hero of that movie robs the corpse of a woman she killed in a freak accident then killed the witch of the east because the witch wanted her sisters belongings back
Moral of the story: "It's ok to steal things as long as you remember to silence any witnesses" :P
You reminded me of something when you were talking about wanting the characters to die. Now when I was a girl I would spend all afternoon watching carttons and childrens shows. No matter what was on I would watch it even if I hate it because I had nothing else to do and in so many shows I found myself wanting the villians to kill the main characters even though the villians were stupid too.
I can really blame low grade people for having low grade culture. Ironically I think the current outrage over the state of mass culture might be a result of egalitarian assumptions, if you think these people are potential sophisticated intellectuals who just decided not to be then I can imagine how you could become bitter.
@Aletheophile well popular movies of the past how managed to appeal to a large audience, including stupid people without having idiot characters that should die.
On a side note, we've all got a bit of Edward in us. Not to say that we're all "sparkly vampires" but that we often feel like outcasts in this world and Bella is like that one person in your life who you can trust with the most sensitive information. Btw, I'm in no way defending these movies. They definitely suck. lol
Sam Witwicky is amazingly brave and loyal. Those are the only two qualities which override all others in todays society which is becoming a theocratic police state.
Thing about having a flawed main character is that the flaws should have some degree of depth and purpose. A socially awkward character is fine if you give them a strong backstory and spend the story exploring that weakness in an emotionally impactful way, but that's not what Transformers is about. The goofiness of the main character is just that, a sort of comic routine that isn't funny and holds no purpose. It's just one of many reasons the Transformers films were god awful.
They I think tried to make Sam comedic relief, which in that regard worked, but I agree he had too many damn flaws. The idea of a character flaw in a character is to give a good arc, so there is a story beyond the big events. Kind of story telling 101. But then Hollywood only ever succeeds when they accidentally manage to do a good adaptation from a novel that isn't intended for emo depressed teenagers.
People don't need to identify with Bella Swan, they just need to be able to put herself in her place for Bella to function -- she's a vapid, without-personality Tabula Rasa capable of taking any girl into herself.
@ThePrinceOfMillAve every girl secretly wants to be obsessive, needy and put up with a abusive asshole?!!!! .... yeah that sounds pretty close to reality actually.
@tooltime9901 Hey, Stephanie Swan-- I mean, Stephanie Meyers wants it. She based the whole series on a fucking dream she had. I wouldn't be surprised if she has some fucked up ideas of what a relationship should be like.
Hit the nail on the head, Though I'm pretty sure you aren't missing the art. The only way you would catch on to a joke this bad is when you see these people write and direct actually good stuff and attack the morons who handed them their tons of money.
I have never watched any of the transformer or twilight movies.
my favorite genre of movies is slasher films, and a lot might think slasher films are just mindless or what ever. I say the exact opposite. The vast majority of slasher films which are well made have pretty good character development, we even sometimes like the characters we are suppose to dislike. Most movies I watch are 70s and 80s movies. Anyway, I agree.
Observation #2: Bella is intentionally unappealing because the story was never about the hot popular girl. The character was designed to appeal to the type of woman who likes to think she's got a personality.
I don't remember where I heard it, but there was a tv show where they were making fun of Twilight. One character says "You know they're gay, right?" and she flips out "NO HE'S NOT! HE'S A HOT VAMPIRE WHO HATES CHEERLEADERS!"
If Twilight and Transformers does last into the future it'll probably be a cult classic that hipsters (whatever they'll be called at the time) will love because it's "So bad it's good" and they'll say it was bad intentionally. ...maybe
Well luckily for us, cultural critics of the future will look at TV like BrBa and The Wire when looking back at our culture just like we only look at the greats of yester-year's music, even though most of it sucked.
A: It's okay to teach girls that they don't have to choose between boys. Subsequently, they can drag boys along emotionally for as long as they please.
B: The way to "win" a woman is to endanger her life, then save her from that danger. Keep that in mind next time. Position an ACME anvil above a prospective woman's head, then shove her out of the way before the anvil crushes her. She'll love you forever.
Never seen those Twilight or Transformers movies, but the main characters are normal humans surrounded by extranormal beings from what I know. The insertion of these generally incompetent and shitty humans reminds me of that speech Bill from Kill Bill 2 gives when he describes Superman's Clark Kent disguise. It seems that these humans are shoehorned into these fantasy worlds, and instead of giving them the development, the writers have chosen to make them foils to the superior fantasy characters
Then again, some things that have gone unrecognized for years are finally getting mass marketed appeal. Like the Song of Ice and Fire series, which has gotten a huge boost in the mass market after the success of the Games of Thrones HBO series.
Twilight and Transformers will not last long enough to be looked back on by future generations. They will last for several years fade, return temporarily because of nostalgia then fade away and be forgotten. At least I hope they will.
Two thoughts... first of all I'm sure there were plenty of terrible plays back in shakespears day. Time just forgot them.
Second, I don't think that the audience was the same back then. Back then the audience for shakespear would probably have been the aristrocratic types, whereas now the audience is everyone with 10-15 dollars in their pocket.
@raythetse I would say that American mass culture is different in that there it involves mass audiences and lots of money, in terms of production quality, promotion and profit. I don't think they will fade in quite the way a bad play from the Elizabethan era. Avatar cost 500 million, in spite of its artistic merit.
A lot have also talked about the brilliant director Dario Argento, the director who made my all time favorite movie. His movies are like a beautiful painting. His last good movie was in the 90s, now all his movies have been "too American.' and a lot blame the fact that his work has been deeply down graded because of how the film industry is now, in the 70s he benefited from it. All his recent movies are just terrible, or just average.
@tooltime9901 Although Avatar's story and dialogue were next to terrible, the execution- flow and editing, especially the preproduction and planning, every shot- was brilliant. If it was just about the 3D and CGI, Trans 3 would of topped Avatar (non-inflation adjusted). One must also consider that Avatar had no built-in fan base aside from Cameron, and things are made worse when the main characters are silly looking blue cat people with tails. So basically Cameron is both a hack and a genius.
All the Transformers movies are pure trash. I saw only the first two because both times friends have paid my way to see them. But the camera work is atrocious , it's almost impossible to follow the action and it can only appeal to people with short attention spans who don't care shit about plots or any meaning whatsoever. But I didn't need to see the third film because you know what they say
Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me
@CyberSpectrumND Couldn't agree more. The first one was barely watchable... the second one was so bad I walked out and like yourself, I've yet to see the third one. Michael Bay is no artist but the visual effects guys that actually work on films like that at ILM, or those who worked on Avatar at Weta are some of the best in the world. They can really do anything, yet rarely receive the credit OR profit they deserve. A lot of people have no idea of the process that goes into creating such images.
@raythetse Shakespeare was bawdy and crass. Everyone went to his plays. Being an actor in Shakespeare's day was just as bad as being a prostitute (even these days being an actor IS being a prostitute). What is so great about Shakespeare is that he actually creates characters that are not so FUCKING flat as what we see today on the Hollywood screen. Shakespeare does not completely insult his audience, much like the so called "artists" of today. YO TOOL TIME 50% of the population is STUPID
The Audience for Shakespeare were both the aristocracy and the common lot. Hence the amount of ribald humour in there, multiple characters for people to identify with form different backgrounds.
The Audience wasn't identical, audiences and their tastes change all the time, but they weren't that dissimilar. People are people. Thats why we still laugh at the hot poker jokes in Chaucer, and can empathise with characters in ancient plays. Old works can suck, and Modern works can shine.
@raythetse Actually, the minority of people (in terms of numbers) that would have visited the theatre at the time (using the Globe as an example) were 'aristocratic'. Most of the people that would have seen a Shakespearean play would have been either the 'low' classes, or the then developing 'middling sort'.
There's a reason there's a lot of 'low' humour in Shakespeare, and that's because he knew his audience well. And they weren't high-born lords for the most part.
Bella is a Mary-Sue. The whole story is just a glorified sue-fic. This is why none of the characters in the story have substance; because this kind of writing is pure self-insertion. The whole thing is just a day-dream the author likes to live out through writing, and which is shared with many like-minded women. The only characters (if you can call them that) of importance are you, and the attractive fellow you're after. All other figures in the story are just . . . there. It's shit
I saw the movie the unborn. The background story was quite good and it was horrifying, but the characters and the acting was utterly horrible. I just couldn't care less about them. But that's a horror movie, the scary part are the important. Twilight is just rediculous. I watched it wih my gf and we laughed are asses off at some parts. I liked harry potter but the harry is also boring. He has no personality. Things just happen to him, it's like you were controling someone in a PC game.
My favorite characters were always the ones who inspired me, the ones who made me want to be like them. They weren't necessarily likable, they were just awesome.
The reason Twilight and Bayformers are successful is because they got established fanbases that are ready to support a movie version just because of the brand-name. Whereas (some) other bad films like Bucky Larsen and Beastly sinks at the bottom.
There are films that you can enjoy. EX: Harry Potter, Rise of the Planet of the Apes, and The Skin I live In. You should make a video about the recent films you did like and why you like them. Every year will have films you love and hate.
Considering the multitude and severity of plot holes in the Transformers movies, I find it hard to believe everything in them was born out of design. These things are often written by committee in Hollywood. That disjointed way of writing--and the general disregard for the importance of a well written story --shows. Why bother in the first place if the goal is just to make money and people have proven they'll pay to see garbage? Sad but true.
And I love Rifftrax. Went to a live event in August
Mainstream American movies are made for the 'lowest common denominator'. Indie movies start to appeal to people who want movies with depth. Mainstream media takes over indie producers. Indie movie watchers still like them. 'Second lowest common denominator' invented: Hipsters.
Regarding the lack of likeable characters in cinema in the summer blockbusters or the holiday season releases, I think you hit the nail on the head that it goes hand in hand with the lack of substance in these movies in terms of plot and character development. But this is where television (that is, at least the cable networks such as HBO) has had a chance to shine with good content; next to Band of Brothers, John Adams, Rome, Dexter, Mad Men, Twilight doesn't have a chance.
they like them because they are soooo vapid, that every person watching that movie can easily paste themselves and thier face onto that body on the screen and thus create cheep virtual reality. people will pay money for that because it's less labor intensive, time consuming, and intellectually challenging than reading a book or even playing a video game.
Actually, the competitions for Greek drama and comedy performances did lead to quite a bit of cynical backlash. In his play about The Birds, Aristophanes had his chorus threaten to fly over the audience and shit on them if they didn't vote his play #1. But we still remember Aristophanes. Lesser comedians who often won, such as Menander, have been entirely forgotten. There was shitty, forgettable comedy long before Saturday Night Live actors started making worthless movies.
Just went through the top box office movies list on I Check Movies and got pretty much the same feeling. Felt a little better though when you adjust for inflation, Avatar jumps from #1 to #14, and Gone with the Wind takes its place.
The advertisements are over th op in some cases yes. But some advertisement is necessary to get people to know about it.
SaerdnaOoOoo 1 month ago
It was not aimed at any audience. The mormon cow who wrote the series was a mormon. That explains a lot. I don't tink she where expressing her dream and what her imagination had to offer which she felt was very apealing. I think it's mediocre. Threre's a lot of shit out there. There are logical inonsistencies in it but Edwards od behaviour was supposed to be a result of trauma. Could you suggest some good stories which are much more complex and contains much more insightful writing?
SaerdnaOoOoo 1 month ago
The thing that bugs me about Twilight and its ilk is that there are so many people who seem to think it's cool and quirky to be into crappy entertainment. I blame it on the ubiquitousness of ironic humour - suddenly we don't have to be ashamed of enjoying utter garbage because we can pretend it makes us unique and nerdy-chic. It drives me mad. No, you're not quirky, you're a single 30 yr old woman who likes a poorly constructed teen romance.
mixxycan 1 month ago
Ah yes the issue of Jerks Everywhere. If Everybody is a Jerk and as tvthropes will show you [good website] a jerk here or there is not a bad thing. But if everybody is a Jerk.. nobody cares.
masticina 1 month ago
To be honest I liked twilight...UNTIL CORPORATE AMERICA got their hands on it. You make good points. That why I'm subscribed
TheEdgarAllenGospis 1 month ago
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That would be an improve if Megatron did rip one of the character's heads off, Transformers just looks like tin can trash anyway. I wouldn't even bother with Twilight and the Transformers,sequels, Transformers is only for the special effects not the plot.
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Such a goddamn shame that Mike J. Nelson is not only a conservative Christian apologist, but cites as one of his idols the profoundly dishonest William Lane Craig.
nosensetoitatall 2 months ago
Sam's PARENTS being killed would be amusing (since they're actively trying to be obnoxious). Sam, not so much, at least after the first movie when he's actually become moderately useful.
evensgrey 2 months ago
1:50 It's called an Anti-Sue. They're worse than the actual Sues on every level
Bleachfanoftheyear 2 months ago
I think I read an interview or something with Stephanie Meyer that Edward is like her dream boyfriend. So while I respect her mental 'willpower' I guess it would be called for writing a book (the longest work of fiction I have written is presently about 10 chapters of 3 pages each), her 'rational thought' in regards to it is...I doubt it's a joke.
Also, from what I remember, in the book Bella is made out to be "perfect". Of course then she's just a Mary Sue and is given no reason to be liked.
onijester56 2 months ago
The thing that bothers me most about Twilight is that there are a lot of people saying it's mediocre. It's not mediocre, it freaking sucks and you know it. It is the most banal, soul-sucking, boring, shallow, trivial, unrealistic, illogical , lackluster piece of vampire-trash ever to be released upon humanity.
JohnsTheGuest 2 months ago 5
@JohnsTheGuest Transformers 2 was worse.
whoisfettel 2 months ago
@OfMalta I don't think people are saying poor Bella, we're pointing her flaws as well as everyone elses in the book. & who's the person unrelated to the book in which that statement is saying very troubling things of? Makes no sense...She also is not solely responsible for being the cause for people to be at each others neck constantly. Jacob & Edward were going to fight over her regardless because they just have to show who's brooding ego is bigger & better for her.Fuck this book!Waste of Time!
frsupermoon 2 months ago
@OfMalta boyfriend, and a father that doesn't really know her that well and thinks just cuz she's living with him it'll all be dandy but thats not realistic. And she is of legal age. Its just a retarded book anyway with unrealistic circumstances and events that like I said, the fact we are debating this is funny to me. Can you believe I actually have the whole Twilight book collection? Well I guess if I run out of toilet paper and bibles to clean my butt, I could always use that.
frsupermoon 2 months ago
@OfMalta which proves he's a manipulator also and shows her emotional weakness once again. Jacobs not really nice. Especially when he also says he'd rather have her dead than alive just because she might grow some fangs as if he owns her. And logically speaking it's no ones business if you get pregnant because her father doesn't own her but it is kinda shady, I will give you that. And she didn't really destroy a family that she never had. Parents divorced, a mom that rather be with her baseball
frsupermoon 2 months ago
@OfMalta I will make one last rebuttlal because the fact we are arguing over a crappy book is pathetic, I'm sure you can agree to that. Okay so Jacob is just as much of a douchebag/asshole as Edward being that he force face slobbered her and held her against her will and the fact that she punched him after proves it, also he pretends in the vampire battle in the eclipse book that he's angry and doesn't care if he dies fighting just so he can once again get Bella to kiss him and make him stay,
frsupermoon 2 months ago
I watched dark of the moon with my family. I remember thinking to myself 'wow, our protagonist is an asshole'
dillj34555 2 months ago
The quality of your content has dropped drastically.
SolomonKull 2 months ago
@OfMalta Edwards more of a manipulative bitch than Bella in my opinion. He buys her things for forgiveness, sets a lot of the rules,prevents her from doing things he doesn't like & makes her do things HE wants like prom, marriage, driving an expensive car.Which nice guy are you refering to in such mistreatment? & if anything she treats her father decently by always being in the kitchen and doing stuff around the house for him, so please be more specific. Lets not make this a one sided argument.
frsupermoon 2 months ago
@frsupermoon
Bella and Edward are two manipulative, bitchy, peas in a pod who deserve one another. Poor Jacob never stood a chance. "Oh, your arse-hat boyfriend dumped you? Here, let me help and console you." - Wrong move, Buckaroo!
The series is not a romance, it's a tragedy. It should be titled "The Poor Nice Wolf Who Became a Paedophile Uncle."
The worst part is that Meyer writes it all as though Jacob should be happy with his lot. She's completely clueless!
threewiseman1 2 months ago
@threewiseman1 "The Poor Nice Wolf Who Became a Paedophile Uncle." Thats actually a fantastic title. But remember, according to stephenie meyer he doesn't look at the baby in that way,only until she starts growing tits & stops aging. The fact that no one who read that part thought to themselves,"He will be counting down the days and waiting till he can have sex with the baby" is kinda mind boggling. & don't forget the, "Oh I used to be in love w/ your mom where I wanted to have sex with her, and
frsupermoon 2 months ago
@frsupermoon
"But remember, according to stephenie meyer he doesn't look at the baby in that way"
That was my point about Meyer being clueless. The rate at which the kid was growing, she was going to be 5 years old and have the body of an 18 year old girl. His sexual desire was going to kick in well before her intellectual maturity. And Edward was fine with it! "Yeah sure dude, you can have sex with my kid, just wait til puberty, it'll happen faster than you think ;)"
threewiseman1 2 months ago
Comment removed
frsupermoon 2 months ago
@threewiseman1 I even battled your father over who wins her heart, I force kissed her, cuddled with her, manipulated her into kissing me again, swayed with her at her prom, and at her wedding day, but none of that matters anymore because now I love you and you are my soulmate. Honestly Renesme, I love only you and I will never think of your mom in that way again!" And Renesme is supposed to be okay with that too. Reading between the lines makes the whole story fucking gross.
frsupermoon 2 months ago
@threewiseman1 I force kissed her, then I manipulated her into kissing me again, I wanted to make babies with her, we cuddled a few times, I swayed with her at her prom, and at her wedding, and I fought with your dad over her and I would flash my manly pectoral muscles at her to make her blush but none of that matters anymore because I have you now and we are meant to be Renesme. I promise I will never think of your mom in a sexual way again. It's not like that anymore."
frsupermoon 2 months ago
During revenge of the fallen, I was so hoping that mudflap and skids would die.
Jesse2K12 2 months ago
I know numerous college educated women with advanced degrees who like the Twilight series. One woman I know even has a quote from the book tattooed on her arm. It baffles the shit out of me. Those twilight movies are garbage.
TheHerpaderpderp 2 months ago
I've never seen transformers or twilight. What does that make me?
AllOtherNamesTaken2 2 months ago
Problem with the human race: Stupid people outnumber intelligent people by a large order of magnitude, they also breed at an exponential rate by comparison. Intelligent people are an endangered species! lol
soulsanctuarymusic1 2 months ago
Whether she admits it or not, Meyer wrote the Twilight series as a thinly veiled metaphor for Mormonism. Women are rewarded for being submissive (yet at the same time passive aggressive) and powerless to their men who have all the real power and authority. The similarities continue through the entire book. As a former Mormon I'm embarrassed at how thinly veiled the books are, but perhaps I only see the symptoms so clearly because I'm so familiar with the illness.
5avan10 2 months ago
A bit off topic but I actually didnt find Megan Fox's character in Transformers to be unlikeable. Though I do agree with your points on the whole.
Razorgeist 2 months ago
I agree, most movies nowadays are either really, really bad or mediocre. But I think you're being bit hard on America culture here. I could be wrong on this but aren't these films popular pretty much world wide? Directors like Micheal Bay seem to rely heavily on aesthetics like CG and attractive "actors" instead of substance. I don't think these movies are big because people are stupid, these movies are big because people are shallow. But what can you do?
melowar78 2 months ago
Actually the exportation of American culture has the opposite effect on terrorism. Fairly recent studies have shown that people are less likely to have anti-west sentiments if they view western entertainment. On the other hand, the ones that were most popular were things that came out in the 1990's (Friends, Seinfeld, and that movie where Melanie Griffith plays an alcoholic are among the most popular). Interesting stuff.
Jonstern1983 2 months ago
Bella isn't meant to be a well defined character. The female reader is meant to project themselves onto her rather than being distracted by her. The movies are popular because the books are and they're popular because they let the reader imagine themselves into a magical impossible love story.
Transformers sold tickets because everyone loved transformers as a kid. That's it. The human side of it all is really just meant to be filler until the big robots come on and do battle.
Lloyath 2 months ago
@Lloyath This is unfortunately true. It's like gonzo porn. I girls sucking the camera-man's (or what we're supposed to think is the camera man) dick, and we're supposed to picture it as us. The problem with Bella is that she's weak, obsessive, shallow, and submissive to a total asshole. Why not have a book series for girls that's more like Buffy or Daria where you have a wide variety of people, some of whom you can identify, others, not so much.
Jonstern1983 2 months ago
As far as the Transformers; that's exactly why they sucked. I would have loved the movies if the human characters were virtually taken out (like the Transformers animated movie). While that might not have been more compelling, at least it would have a bunch of giant robots fighting and virtually no annoying characters.
Jonstern1983 2 months ago
They are hilarious.
Jonstern1983 2 months ago
you should go enjoy the library instead of watching dumb movies.
developmentcom 2 months ago
Every girl wants a guy that's tall, uber strong, mysterious, stalkerish, filfthy rich, possessive (cuz he'd only be looking out for our best interest since women don't have brains) he has to be super hot like Adonis too & every guy wants a timid,shy, weak, irrational (so he can make all the decisions) well scented, compliant girl.
@tooltime9901, plz tell me there are more guys like you in the world, cuz I have only encountered douchebags in person and fail fantasy characters in books. :(
frsupermoon 2 months ago 13
I really enjoy the aesthetics of that self-portrait; you've got your hair flopping just right, and that perfect look of Tom Waits-style contented discontent on your face. I keep trying something like it, but I can never pull it off.
I love your comparison to the democratic popular participation criticism in Ancient Greece--clearly something we should return to.
niriop 2 months ago
Love Mst3k and rifftrax.
whistlingdust 2 months ago
I guess it depends on what you're attracted to. I find Kristen Stewart very hot. But that's just me. And yeah, I don't like the whole fad the Twilight movies have been blown into. Sure I'll watch it, and I like it, but I'm not like one of those Twi-hard fans.
umki55es 2 months ago
@umki55es Kristen Stewart is attractive, although the Twilight movies seem to down play that as much as possible to make her seem like an average girl. what I mean is she is not a Maxim-uber-hot all the frat boys want to fuck her type. I thought she did a good job as Joan Jett
tooltime9901 2 months ago
I've been told I'm like Edward by an Ex.. Loving/silent/loyal/blunt. I've never seen the movie. But Those definitions are true. In reality I am very blunt and straightforward. I do not cheat and I'm somewhat loving at times. I also prefer to let others talk before me and somwehat attractive.
These characteristics tend to appeal some girls and some women looking for a lasting relationship. And lets be honest, women pick their mates. And Women fantasize.
SOME Women/girls adore that archetype.
DefinitionIsGone 2 months ago
The fact that the masses glefully and with great appetite happily consume, and always want more of, the most retardet "reality" shows and the most worthless and least thought-provoking films seems to suggest they are, in fact, (at least) as stupid and shallow as they are percived to be
IVscythia 2 months ago
@IVscythia and its not only that the people wathcing are shallow and stupid (to some degree) they seem to be getting progressively more so as they consume more and more of these insults to inteligence and good taste
IVscythia 2 months ago
You give these artists way too much credit. Yes, there is a technical process to writing and editing and all that stuff. But there's also a sense of detachment when you're working on a project. You have to divorce yourself from your work to some extent, and that is what Stephanie Meyers and Michael Bay do. That's what any artist does. What these movies are however, is indicative of the artist's mental maturity.
jasonpalth 2 months ago
Ok, you know what, Romeo and Juliet is NOT a great love story, if you actually break it down.
Some twenty-something year old dude SAW a thirteen year old girl he wanted to bang, instantly fell 100% in love, and she instantly fell 100% in love with him in return, and after a few hours of Angst, the two of them went full Emo and died in a crypt.
It was the Twilight of it's age, except instead of a mortal girl and a vampire, it was a tween and a pedophile.
Etimos 2 months ago
@Etimos Romeo was 14 and Juliet was 12.....
kingkong8974 2 months ago
@kingkong8974 In her first scene, Lady Capulet refers to Juliet's age as "Almost Fourteen."
And from the Shakespeargeek website "General opinion seems to have him in his late teens, possibly as old as 21."
This makes sense, considering the swordplay and other activities in the play which are well beyond your average thirteen year old >.<
Honestly now.
Etimos 2 months ago
@Etimos ahhh, so I remembered it wrong.
kingkong8974 2 months ago
I think that hollywood has become so hollow, that the people responsible for these movies have become such soulless, mindless, insubstantial pop-culture-vampires that they actually dont realize how bad these characters are. I think they actually believe these people ARE relatable, that this is how the rest of the world really works,
Etimos 2 months ago
I am a huge fan of horror movies, but this is why most American horror sucks and I love Asian horror so much.
turquoiseguy 2 months ago
I wanted Shia Lebouf to die in Transformers as well.
TairyGreen89 2 months ago
It isn't always like that I wan't to be the main character in the movie - I wouldn't like to be a Vin Diesel in F&F even though he's the cool guy. sometimes i just like to read (or see) a book (or a movie) about an average person with average problems. The REALLY cool thing is, when those things get mixed up - like in fight club, where a regular guy gets thrown into a weird scenario. maybe ppl just have inferiority complexes ;)
Dummweltschutz 2 months ago
thanks about this rant. the same thing is going on with youtube...where the front page is plastered with the same stupid neon coloured (sometimes misleading) thumbnails feeding you shitty entertainment.
wonderpope 2 months ago
Watch The twilight series with the mind set that Bella is the antagonist. It's fucking savage..
SeanathenII 2 months ago
It's simple cost benefit analysis. The more complex a story, the narrower the appeal. This means you'll necessarily sell fewer tickets, that means the big investment that goes into making a movie won't necessarily be recouped. It's not about stupid or smart, it's about general and specific. Everybody likes special effects.
mrbluesky323 2 months ago
The sick sad truth about is that these DO appeal to the average youth because they are just as unlikeable, just as shallow, just as one-dimensional. If you threw a Hollister hoodie on either Sam or Bella, instantly indistinguishable from the rest of the herd mentality driven youth. Just walk to the mall or bus station, you'll see them standing outside, hoping someone sees them smoking :\
NinteenEightyNothing 2 months ago
You don't think Kristin Stewart is attractive? I get that seeing her in Twilight has enformed your opinion on this, but as someone who agrees with you I can't deny she's pretty.
VirtuesPenumbra 2 months ago
@VirtuesPenumbra I don't think he meant that she isn't attractive at all - but that she isn't the ideal for pure sexual beauty (as I like to call it) like for example megan fox who is just a whore (sry) who didnt make porn yet. Many Girls are pretty - probably the average girl isn't pretty, but the ideal for a "perfect" looking girl is not a kirsten stewart, and that's what it's all about: the idea of what's an ideal or not. sry if my comment contains some mistakes - my english isnt THAT good ;)
Dummweltschutz 2 months ago
@Dummweltschutz
It's all good. And I hear ya about her looks. Maybe I just have a thing for her lol. Does that make me a Twi-hard now? Damn I hope not.lol
VirtuesPenumbra 2 months ago
@VirtuesPenumbra I guess a Twihard is someone who's obsessed with the movies/books as a whole, not only (but also) with the actors ;) and even if, what's the matter?^^
Dummweltschutz 2 months ago
The idea behind the "bad at everything" character is (also) a psychological thing... the idea is that seeing someone worse off from you will make you feel sorry for them, in turn create empathy, in turn create attachment (i.e. you want to see the character turn into a perfect person by the end). How much does Sam Witwicky fulful this by the end of each movie is a separate question, but it's an irrelevant one - if you want him to get himself together, the sterotype has done its work.
boenrobot 2 months ago
Most movies today SUCK. Especially comedy. What passes for funny today astounds me. That's what Blu-ray/DVD are for i can watch older films that were actually good. The 70's were the best IMO.
coloradojoey 2 months ago
im going to moan like a bitch and beg for MOAR videos!
Adastra14 2 months ago
George Carlin said "Think about how stupid the AVERAGE person is, and realize that HALF of them are dumber than THAT!"
GoblinXXX 2 months ago
Considering attendance records of movies are going down, I think you're preaching to the choir and the choir making up a large majority of the people. And let's face it; Twilight is marketed to teenagers; it's working on hormones, nothing else. Transformers is working off of nostalgia back when Transformers was still good.
3DMaster 2 months ago
@3DMaster Can you explain to me when ever Transformers was "Good"? back when I was a kid and they came along I thought "What cheap crap is that?" The animations were horrible - even back then I could see that already, having watched good animation before - and the stories and characters completely ridiculous. Come on... "Decepticons"? The same goes for all the other "we have a toy and want to sell it" series like He Man or GI Joe... ->
commanderkruge 2 months ago
@commanderkruge -> All this shit taking place in violent universes in which never ever someone dies (Autobots don't count because they are fucking ROBOTS!) - which makes all the violence become non-consequential and thus totally ruins the suspense one would expect from such stories... In Star Trek at least some redshirts die from time to time, but Jerry did meaner things to Tom than Skeletor in his whole existence... Crap. Crap. Crap.
commanderkruge 2 months ago
I felt the same about the starwars prequels. Just didnt care who lived and who died. Still don't.
kalsolarUK 2 months ago
@kalsolarUK They were adequate proof that George lucas' scriptwriting ability regressed from the original trilogy and that his casting director was basically incompetent
mrsanity 2 months ago
@mrsanity Important point to remember: Lucas -didn't- write the scripts for Empire or Jedi. He had final say, but the dialogue etc isn't actually his. That's why 5 & 6 flow better than 4 or any of the prequels, which Lucas did write.
Muljinn 2 months ago
These movies are targeted to a younger generation. Those people don't really know or expect to be entertained intellectually anyway. Dudes want explosions, but Transformers can't just be a movie with explosions so they threw Sam in there for the sake of "OK FINE It's a movie Here's the stupid plot." Girls who don't know shit about relationships will absorb every minute of Twilight and will now expect relationships to work in that way. That's it. What did you expect?
WhiteAsylumMind 2 months ago
By and large Americans are not interested in cerebral pursuits in the first place. When they go to the cinema, the last thing they want to see is some artistic reflection of reality that would actually cause brain activity. They just want mindless spectacle. It's a symptom of a much larger problem. BTW, disagree on Kirsten. She's quite lovely, although I haven't seen any of those ridiculous movies...
infinityand0 2 months ago
Making Bella average-looking is smarter than making her really really hot. It makes it easier to relate to her and the fantasy of having the prettiest guys in the world fighting for you even if your not Megan Fox is a nice one.
Bullovvic 2 months ago
The producers are spineless and rely on well-established blueprints so as to not take financial risks. I think it is their fault more so than the audience. If better movies came out directed at teens, people would flock to those.
MrStillmans 2 months ago
Avatar was Dances with Wolves in space...it even had a blue 'Wind in his hair'.
cararacs 2 months ago
Yeah, I think it's all a cruel joke, the world is being trolled! Things will only truly change once each individual detaches from the hive mind. Now that would be something, I have no idea what, but that's the best part.
Absinthium 2 months ago
Excellent statement, movies are a reflection of what life is like with average IQ. Or below average emotional IQ.
darkwhitedirewolf 2 months ago
I think this also relates to the way most horror movies now hand us a buffet of victims who are all such odious douchebags that we eagerly await their deaths, instead of protagonists we identify with and care about, and wonder why audiences are not frightened or disturbed when they die.
GoblinXXX 2 months ago 4
@GoblinXXX funny, I had a similar thought, except that I would praise horror movies for giving people what they want. douchebags should die. I mean really, who the fuck would care about a bunch of teenagers partying in the woods anyway?
tooltime9901 2 months ago 5
@tooltime9901 People who want THAT can go down to the slaughterhouse and watch hogs being butchered. When I pay for a horror movie, I want to actually be scared. I love blood and gore the same way I love ketchup (on my french fries? NO!) along with something more substantial, not by itself.
GoblinXXX 2 months ago
@tooltime9901 Yeah, but on the other hand douche bags getting killed isn't scary. It's satisfying. Yes, I do think that horror movies should at least try to be scary.
Jonstern1983 2 months ago
The pattern with movie characters is especially visible with politicians. This gives more vindication to the cynical perspective.
jeb31415 2 months ago
The authors (screenwriters, whatever) don't need to be stupid, only the culture does. Kim Kardashian vs. Bella Swan in the TITANIC BATTLE OF ALL TIME!!! Coming this Friday to a tabloid/cable network/theater near you . . .
jason666king 2 months ago
Sam is a pretty horrible character. I mean, the guy has super model girlfriends, a badass transforming car and he's saved the world twice, yet bitches about everything and treats his car like shit. What the fuck?
JOKERSFREAK 2 months ago
You have hit on why I don't like movies anymore. I have stopped watching and don't miss them at all.
customerjon 2 months ago
who the fuck are Sam Witwicky and Balla Swan?
Draehorx 2 months ago 4
@Draehorx
Balla Swan is like Bella Swan's more blinged-out, ghetto fabulous twin sister.
JunkCCCP 2 months ago
when i was a kid every one wanted to grow up to be a adult now every one wants to grow up to be a teenanger :( about transformers because of sam I can not watch this movie it so sad
fallbread 2 months ago
The real question is who would you want dead first, Sam Witwicky or his english girlfriend from the latest transformers tripe?
Megatron should have just fucking crushed her. Listening to her and then being manipulated? That's not the gigantic robot villain that I know and love.
BigFuckOffRevolvers 2 months ago
If you want to appeal to the largest segment of people, then they would be targeting a group +/- about a standard deviation from 100, which the way they are gauged means all the way down to 85. Targeting an audience of 86-115 IQ scores would get you about 70% of people. (If we're taking IQ to really be worth anything.)
puellanivis 2 months ago
I think part of the reason why characters like in the transformers movies are not incredibly smart or capable, is that the story writers want their triumph not to be because they're smarter than everyone, but because they're courageous or determined or something like that... with the idea being that people who walk away feel inspired saying "I could do that" rather than seeing some super-genius fix something and them to feel like it doesn't relate to them because they aren't that smart.
Wolfau5 2 months ago
what can i say
Growen ups shodn´t watch transformers !
glasseay 2 months ago
If the director was on cocaine I am sure it would be far more interesting; also only Americans think America is the greatest country. America is largely built on the dreams and aspirations of the 'common man'.
111Socrates777 3 months ago
I blame americas current culture on the wizard of oz
The hero of that movie robs the corpse of a woman she killed in a freak accident then killed the witch of the east because the witch wanted her sisters belongings back
Moral of the story: "It's ok to steal things as long as you remember to silence any witnesses" :P
dffykvn 3 months ago
Another thing:
With bland, boring characters usually they are meant to be surrounded by interesting characters. Eric Foreman is a good example.
Camoool 3 months ago
You reminded me of something when you were talking about wanting the characters to die. Now when I was a girl I would spend all afternoon watching carttons and childrens shows. No matter what was on I would watch it even if I hate it because I had nothing else to do and in so many shows I found myself wanting the villians to kill the main characters even though the villians were stupid too.
Camoool 3 months ago
@Camoool Villains are always marginally cooler than heroes no matter how terrible the series is :P
dffykvn 3 months ago
@dffykvn I disagree.
Camoool 2 months ago
I can really blame low grade people for having low grade culture. Ironically I think the current outrage over the state of mass culture might be a result of egalitarian assumptions, if you think these people are potential sophisticated intellectuals who just decided not to be then I can imagine how you could become bitter.
Aletheophile 3 months ago
@Aletheophile well popular movies of the past how managed to appeal to a large audience, including stupid people without having idiot characters that should die.
tooltime9901 2 months ago 3
@Aletheophile *can't
Aletheophile 2 months ago
On a side note, we've all got a bit of Edward in us. Not to say that we're all "sparkly vampires" but that we often feel like outcasts in this world and Bella is like that one person in your life who you can trust with the most sensitive information. Btw, I'm in no way defending these movies. They definitely suck. lol
lenney81 3 months ago
Sam Witwicky is amazingly brave and loyal. Those are the only two qualities which override all others in todays society which is becoming a theocratic police state.
lenney81 3 months ago
Remember, these are the same types of people who go nuts over Justin Bieber. Go figure.
theallseeingoracle 3 months ago
@theallseeingoracle JB is white Michael Jackson. no mystery there.
tooltime9901 2 months ago
@tooltime9901
Hold on bro... Michael Jackson was the white Michael Jackson, and the black Michael Jackson.
CyberSpectrumND 2 months ago
@tooltime9901 Justin is NOT the white Michael Jackson. Michael Jackson is the white Michael Jackson.
TruthSerum101 2 months ago
@tooltime9901 However, Micheal Jackson could dance and had rhythm as well as a good voice.
kingkong8974 2 months ago
Why are you watching Transformers and Twilight? If you want good American popular culture, watch Sons of Anarchy and Breaking Bad.
SisyphusRedeemed 3 months ago
Thing about having a flawed main character is that the flaws should have some degree of depth and purpose. A socially awkward character is fine if you give them a strong backstory and spend the story exploring that weakness in an emotionally impactful way, but that's not what Transformers is about. The goofiness of the main character is just that, a sort of comic routine that isn't funny and holds no purpose. It's just one of many reasons the Transformers films were god awful.
CuriousMoth 3 months ago
They I think tried to make Sam comedic relief, which in that regard worked, but I agree he had too many damn flaws. The idea of a character flaw in a character is to give a good arc, so there is a story beyond the big events. Kind of story telling 101. But then Hollywood only ever succeeds when they accidentally manage to do a good adaptation from a novel that isn't intended for emo depressed teenagers.
Swidhelm 3 months ago
People don't need to identify with Bella Swan, they just need to be able to put herself in her place for Bella to function -- she's a vapid, without-personality Tabula Rasa capable of taking any girl into herself.
ThePrinceOfMillAve 3 months ago 19
@ThePrinceOfMillAve I think that might be her point, but I'm not sure of how well she manages that.
Fjarhultian 2 months ago
@ThePrinceOfMillAve every girl secretly wants to be obsessive, needy and put up with a abusive asshole?!!!! .... yeah that sounds pretty close to reality actually.
tooltime9901 2 months ago 14
@tooltime9901 They don't want to be put up with an abusive asshole, they want to have a hot boyfriend who glitters and buys them expensive gifts.
marosario07 2 months ago
@tooltime9901 Hey, Stephanie Swan-- I mean, Stephanie Meyers wants it. She based the whole series on a fucking dream she had. I wouldn't be surprised if she has some fucked up ideas of what a relationship should be like.
p2umpkin 2 months ago
Hit the nail on the head, Though I'm pretty sure you aren't missing the art. The only way you would catch on to a joke this bad is when you see these people write and direct actually good stuff and attack the morons who handed them their tons of money.
anubis2814 3 months ago
I have never watched any of the transformer or twilight movies.
my favorite genre of movies is slasher films, and a lot might think slasher films are just mindless or what ever. I say the exact opposite. The vast majority of slasher films which are well made have pretty good character development, we even sometimes like the characters we are suppose to dislike. Most movies I watch are 70s and 80s movies. Anyway, I agree.
jay666KJ 3 months ago
Maybe you should stop watching movies for morons :)
noobyfromhell 3 months ago
Observation #2: Bella is intentionally unappealing because the story was never about the hot popular girl. The character was designed to appeal to the type of woman who likes to think she's got a personality.
I don't remember where I heard it, but there was a tv show where they were making fun of Twilight. One character says "You know they're gay, right?" and she flips out "NO HE'S NOT! HE'S A HOT VAMPIRE WHO HATES CHEERLEADERS!"
It was surprisingly accurate (in my experience.)
MaceMeetFace 3 months ago
"cosmic joke"
nigga what you talking about
cheeseit126 3 months ago
If Twilight and Transformers does last into the future it'll probably be a cult classic that hipsters (whatever they'll be called at the time) will love because it's "So bad it's good" and they'll say it was bad intentionally. ...maybe
Grigori7 3 months ago
Well luckily for us, cultural critics of the future will look at TV like BrBa and The Wire when looking back at our culture just like we only look at the greats of yester-year's music, even though most of it sucked.
migkillertwo 3 months ago
There are 2 things I learned from Twilight:
A: It's okay to teach girls that they don't have to choose between boys. Subsequently, they can drag boys along emotionally for as long as they please.
B: The way to "win" a woman is to endanger her life, then save her from that danger. Keep that in mind next time. Position an ACME anvil above a prospective woman's head, then shove her out of the way before the anvil crushes her. She'll love you forever.
At least, that's Twilight Love.
MaceMeetFace 3 months ago
Never seen those Twilight or Transformers movies, but the main characters are normal humans surrounded by extranormal beings from what I know. The insertion of these generally incompetent and shitty humans reminds me of that speech Bill from Kill Bill 2 gives when he describes Superman's Clark Kent disguise. It seems that these humans are shoehorned into these fantasy worlds, and instead of giving them the development, the writers have chosen to make them foils to the superior fantasy characters
criticalchap 3 months ago
Then again, some things that have gone unrecognized for years are finally getting mass marketed appeal. Like the Song of Ice and Fire series, which has gotten a huge boost in the mass market after the success of the Games of Thrones HBO series.
EziekielNightwind 3 months ago
I think you and Stan Marsh have the condition of "Being a cynical asshole"
migkillertwo 3 months ago
There's a reason why Jersey Shore is so freakin popular... ._. There are more people who know about Snooki than Carl Sagan. Shame...
Schyntful 3 months ago
Twilight and Transformers will not last long enough to be looked back on by future generations. They will last for several years fade, return temporarily because of nostalgia then fade away and be forgotten. At least I hope they will.
thenamelessone83 3 months ago
Two thoughts... first of all I'm sure there were plenty of terrible plays back in shakespears day. Time just forgot them.
Second, I don't think that the audience was the same back then. Back then the audience for shakespear would probably have been the aristrocratic types, whereas now the audience is everyone with 10-15 dollars in their pocket.
raythetse 3 months ago
@raythetse I would say that American mass culture is different in that there it involves mass audiences and lots of money, in terms of production quality, promotion and profit. I don't think they will fade in quite the way a bad play from the Elizabethan era. Avatar cost 500 million, in spite of its artistic merit.
tooltime9901 3 months ago
@tooltime9901
A lot have also talked about the brilliant director Dario Argento, the director who made my all time favorite movie. His movies are like a beautiful painting. His last good movie was in the 90s, now all his movies have been "too American.' and a lot blame the fact that his work has been deeply down graded because of how the film industry is now, in the 70s he benefited from it. All his recent movies are just terrible, or just average.
jay666KJ 3 months ago
@tooltime9901 Although Avatar's story and dialogue were next to terrible, the execution- flow and editing, especially the preproduction and planning, every shot- was brilliant. If it was just about the 3D and CGI, Trans 3 would of topped Avatar (non-inflation adjusted). One must also consider that Avatar had no built-in fan base aside from Cameron, and things are made worse when the main characters are silly looking blue cat people with tails. So basically Cameron is both a hack and a genius.
Cyraside 2 months ago
@Cyraside
All the Transformers movies are pure trash. I saw only the first two because both times friends have paid my way to see them. But the camera work is atrocious , it's almost impossible to follow the action and it can only appeal to people with short attention spans who don't care shit about plots or any meaning whatsoever. But I didn't need to see the third film because you know what they say
Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me
But I agree with you on Avatar
CyberSpectrumND 2 months ago
@CyberSpectrumND Couldn't agree more. The first one was barely watchable... the second one was so bad I walked out and like yourself, I've yet to see the third one. Michael Bay is no artist but the visual effects guys that actually work on films like that at ILM, or those who worked on Avatar at Weta are some of the best in the world. They can really do anything, yet rarely receive the credit OR profit they deserve. A lot of people have no idea of the process that goes into creating such images.
Cyraside 2 months ago
@raythetse Shakespeare was bawdy and crass. Everyone went to his plays. Being an actor in Shakespeare's day was just as bad as being a prostitute (even these days being an actor IS being a prostitute). What is so great about Shakespeare is that he actually creates characters that are not so FUCKING flat as what we see today on the Hollywood screen. Shakespeare does not completely insult his audience, much like the so called "artists" of today. YO TOOL TIME 50% of the population is STUPID
PETEYPABLO1977 3 months ago
@raythetse
The Audience for Shakespeare were both the aristocracy and the common lot. Hence the amount of ribald humour in there, multiple characters for people to identify with form different backgrounds.
The Audience wasn't identical, audiences and their tastes change all the time, but they weren't that dissimilar. People are people. Thats why we still laugh at the hot poker jokes in Chaucer, and can empathise with characters in ancient plays. Old works can suck, and Modern works can shine.
TheBoyFromNorfolk 3 months ago
@raythetse Actually, the minority of people (in terms of numbers) that would have visited the theatre at the time (using the Globe as an example) were 'aristocratic'. Most of the people that would have seen a Shakespearean play would have been either the 'low' classes, or the then developing 'middling sort'.
There's a reason there's a lot of 'low' humour in Shakespeare, and that's because he knew his audience well. And they weren't high-born lords for the most part.
enisylo 2 months ago
Twilight is also Mormon Propaganda . . . yep.
shrikechan 3 months ago
I like to think of myself as a likeable, intelligent person. Must be why I'm single :/
mastershake400 3 months ago
Bella is a Mary-Sue. The whole story is just a glorified sue-fic. This is why none of the characters in the story have substance; because this kind of writing is pure self-insertion. The whole thing is just a day-dream the author likes to live out through writing, and which is shared with many like-minded women. The only characters (if you can call them that) of importance are you, and the attractive fellow you're after. All other figures in the story are just . . . there. It's shit
shrikechan 3 months ago
I saw the movie the unborn. The background story was quite good and it was horrifying, but the characters and the acting was utterly horrible. I just couldn't care less about them. But that's a horror movie, the scary part are the important. Twilight is just rediculous. I watched it wih my gf and we laughed are asses off at some parts. I liked harry potter but the harry is also boring. He has no personality. Things just happen to him, it's like you were controling someone in a PC game.
Ignorantf00l 3 months ago
Transformers (the new ones) is the male version of Twilight. Both could have never of been made and the world would be a better place.
westwood500 3 months ago
Bella Swan is a "Mary Sue" character.
DeistPaladin 3 months ago
My favorite characters were always the ones who inspired me, the ones who made me want to be like them. They weren't necessarily likable, they were just awesome.
BionicDance 3 months ago
Perhaps a mic would help next time, it's really hard to hear you with the ambient noises in the background. Just a suggestion...
Zurassh 3 months ago
That society is retarded and unlikeable? :/
mrx0066600 3 months ago
The reason Twilight and Bayformers are successful is because they got established fanbases that are ready to support a movie version just because of the brand-name. Whereas (some) other bad films like Bucky Larsen and Beastly sinks at the bottom.
There are films that you can enjoy. EX: Harry Potter, Rise of the Planet of the Apes, and The Skin I live In. You should make a video about the recent films you did like and why you like them. Every year will have films you love and hate.
TheMantaBluRay 3 months ago
Considering the multitude and severity of plot holes in the Transformers movies, I find it hard to believe everything in them was born out of design. These things are often written by committee in Hollywood. That disjointed way of writing--and the general disregard for the importance of a well written story --shows. Why bother in the first place if the goal is just to make money and people have proven they'll pay to see garbage? Sad but true.
And I love Rifftrax. Went to a live event in August
Hockeygod98 3 months ago
Did you record this while waiting for the bus in the rain?
TheMessianicManic 3 months ago
@TheMessianicManic by a lake
tooltime9901 3 months ago 7
Mainstream American movies are made for the 'lowest common denominator'. Indie movies start to appeal to people who want movies with depth. Mainstream media takes over indie producers. Indie movie watchers still like them. 'Second lowest common denominator' invented: Hipsters.
FishofMuu 3 months ago
Regarding the lack of likeable characters in cinema in the summer blockbusters or the holiday season releases, I think you hit the nail on the head that it goes hand in hand with the lack of substance in these movies in terms of plot and character development. But this is where television (that is, at least the cable networks such as HBO) has had a chance to shine with good content; next to Band of Brothers, John Adams, Rome, Dexter, Mad Men, Twilight doesn't have a chance.
TheShoguneagle 3 months ago
they like them because they are soooo vapid, that every person watching that movie can easily paste themselves and thier face onto that body on the screen and thus create cheep virtual reality. people will pay money for that because it's less labor intensive, time consuming, and intellectually challenging than reading a book or even playing a video game.
xXBarbeloXx 3 months ago
Actually, the competitions for Greek drama and comedy performances did lead to quite a bit of cynical backlash. In his play about The Birds, Aristophanes had his chorus threaten to fly over the audience and shit on them if they didn't vote his play #1. But we still remember Aristophanes. Lesser comedians who often won, such as Menander, have been entirely forgotten. There was shitty, forgettable comedy long before Saturday Night Live actors started making worthless movies.
Wes964 3 months ago
Just went through the top box office movies list on I Check Movies and got pretty much the same feeling. Felt a little better though when you adjust for inflation, Avatar jumps from #1 to #14, and Gone with the Wind takes its place.
they4got 3 months ago
As bad as things are right now in film, more than enough good movies get made each year to justify the medium's existence. That's a low bar though.
theendofconfusion 3 months ago
Bella is kind of akward and wierd. I believe that a lot of people can identify with that.
amberview30 3 months ago
RiffTrax is fucking awesome. They can make any bad movie watchable. :)
Wes964 3 months ago
Jesus Tooltime. You leave for a few months and become a hipster?
ryanmshepard92 3 months ago