Factually, we know that Catholic Clerical Sex Abuse has been ongoing, systemic & KNOWN to the Vatican for well over 1000 years. So the true numbers, age & gender of the victims is unknown, but vast, as most cases were never reported due to fear of the Church!
While there are MANY gay priests, this is not a gay issue. Most abusers had multiple victims, often of BOTH genders.
@JPI280978 So you have some documents of the Vatican being aware of clerical abuse all the back to 1,000 years ago?
And the point of the Most Abusers having victims of BOTH genders? Or is this an argument from silence since your claim that 'the true numbers, age & gender of the victims is unknown." If not I want the references on these facts.
...and educate yourself. The evidence is in Canon Law, papal/Vatican pronouncements & documents, & the writings of certain saints. Of the KNOWN abuse cases, many abusers had victims of both genders. Though some only abused those of one gender. Gay priests are known to have abused BOTH boys AND girls; thus being pansexual.
The problem is that they are immoral & under demonic influence. Not that they are gay.
@JPI280978 OK, can you please tell me which canon law? Which code? What canons, give the citations. Oh and please show me the quotes of saints that are suppose to say what you think they are suppose to say. (You forgot to tell us what these saints were suppose to say.)
And what you do you mean gay priests are 'pansexual' by this you mean bi-sexual right? Isn't this a contradiction? Is this term you are using from any documented psychological journal? Cite the reference please?
@CathPresbyter You seem to be cognitively impaired, & in extreme Denial. The 'arguments' you are using are right out of the Opus Dei playbook. Identical to those of the OD talking heads on EWTN.
@JPI280978 Isn;t this exactly what GomerJones said you would do. He said this was your modus operandi. You accuse people of Being in with OD and stupid, provide no references oh and claim some kind of spiritual insight into this. (You did three out of four here.) I am not OD, nor do I have their 'play book,' Frankly I have never liked Escriva's works. I was willing to listen to your points and your facts but calling someone names is helping your position.
@CathPresbyter If you are going to take gomerpyle seriously, then it is you who needs help.....
All you have said is typical of the banter of Denial used by OD members; including EWTN 'stars'. If you know how to operate a search engine & to think objectively & process information, then you should be able to comprehend what has been said.
If you are indeed a Catholic priest, as you sn indicates, then you are required to like Escriva & OD. Please do not play games.
Hey JPI280978 - I don't have to make fun of your user handle to prove my point. (BTW, is calling me "gomerpyle" conducive to the Sermon on the Mount?)
@JPI280978 Wait have you ever read the Didache that your video quotes? It lists lots of do's and don't. It was an early catechism, taken according to many scholars from Judiasm actually. (Reference Louth's book on the Church Fathers.) So are you slamming Jews also then? And the Council of Elvira forbed communion even at the point of death to child abusers. (This means they damned their souls to hell.) Nice cover up there.
@CathPresbyter First, that is not 'my' video. While imperfect, it makes the point. Clerical sex abuse has been an ongoing problem since the establishment of the Vatican in 325AD. The Church then controlled the state, in contradiction to Christ & the Gospel. This made any reporting of abuse nearly impossible, until modern times when there was more general freedom.
@JPI280978 You do have a point that clergy have abused people in the past. As they have stolen, lied, fornicated, just to name a few sins. This proves that they are sinners, and frankly you can say the same of every profession, unless you claim two distinctions! The cover up question goes to instutition. I still need to research the video. And another you didn't raise is does this profession have higher stats. IE is it systemic. I would love to see any stats you have on this.
@CathPresbyter The Vatican Administration has soiled its nappies so much over the past 1700 years, yet refuses to wash itself, repent & reform. Ignoring the repeated requests from God to do so. All of these are facts of history. Do not lie & try to deny it.
Via sex abuse, the Vatican is guilty of the murder of countless souls over many centuries. Due to the spiritual & sacramental it claims, the abuse done by clerics is FAR worse then that of any other persons.
@JPI280978 "All of these are facts of history. Do not lie & try to deny it."
Facts of history? You mean like your claims that Opus Dei was behind the attacks on 9/11, the banking crisis, killing JP1, kidnapping Mother Angelica, and, most recently, owning Hollywood?
All these are things that you've claimed. I haven't embellished a bit. Where is the proof for these delusions in your mind? Proof - you know - that thing you so often demand of others?
@JPI280978 Venerable Bede lists child abuse as a crime, as well as St. Peter Damian and attacked any cover ups, and Gratian which your video quotes wants them civily tried. (So you cannot blame Gratian for the cover up.) Pius V called for charging them. So your own video speaks of priests and canonists who went after abusers, as proof of a cover up. That is illogical.
@CathPresbyter What you fail to grasp is twofold: a) the pedo priest problem dates back well over 1000 years, and b) despite some hand-wringing, nothing of substance was ever done to correct the problem. And that is: lack of adequate supervision of clerics. Of course if many Bishops are also degenerates, they will not be going after the abusers, now will they? What has been done is to hush it up for centuries.
@JPI280978 BTW thanks for the link I will study it. But it seems the video's beef is against Pope Leo IX, Benedict XVI, and the 1917 code wanting to put this issue under the penetentary system, as opposed to reporting it, preceding manditory reporting laws! I would agree with this critizism, if these documents are in context, but it does not undermine the homosexual argument. Are you say no homosexuals were ordained before VII? If so why so many now as you noted below?
@CathPresbyter You should realize who you're arguing with. JPI280978 is a whackjob conspiracy theorist who believes that Opus Dei was behind the 9/11 attacks, the worldwide banking crisis, and a host of other things. In addition, he'll often refuse to cite any evidence for these conpiracy theories or other outrageous claims, but then turn around and demand exact proof from others. He's a hypocrite who claims the Sermon on the Mount is important, but then says martyred priests deserved to die.
@gomerjones You are a 'pious Catholic', yet you have no faith. If you did, then you would know that nothing happens which is not the Will of God. Thus if priests were murdered in Spain, it was God's Will - just as it was in the French Revolution. They brought it upon themselves by their sins.
And Mary specifically warned that priests would be killed at LaSalette (1846), due to their sins.
@JPI280978 "You are a 'pious Catholic', yet you have no faith." Nope, you have no idea whether I'm Catholic or Shinto. Because all I've ever done is condemn violence, bigotry, and hypocrisy. You get so mad because you know that's all you've got. That's why you have to make stuff up, like claiming that I've been "spiritually identified as a pedophile." Ridiculous.
You, on the other hand, are on record claiming Opus Dei was behind the 9/11 attacks. Your own words. No embellishment needed.
@JPI280978 "If you did, then you would know that nothing happens which is not the Will of God. Thus if priests were murdered in Spain, it was God's Will."
Funny how when it's a priest that's murdered by the government, you say "it was God's Will" lending your support to the violence.
But then you'll condemn the death penalty in your own country.
SO.... I guess as long it's a priest getting put to death, you're okay with it.
@gomerjones You will die; when you do it shall be God's Will. As shall be the way you die. Nothing happens which is not God's Will.
God's Active Will is only for good. Evil is only allowed to happen by His Passive Will; wherein He lifts His protective hand. This is very basic theology which you should know, as a Catholic.
Via Mary & mortal prophets, God has repeatedly warned clergy to repent OR suffer persecution & slaughter. By refusing to obey God, they chose the latter.
@JPI280978 So according to you, then I guess when the US puts someone to death, it is God's Will. So stop complaining about it, like you've told others to stop complaining about murdered priests.
Or is it too much to ask that the same rules be applied to you that you apply to everyone else?
Wait, of course it is. You're a hypocrite. There are two sets of rules in your mind: A) Rules that apply to you B) Different rules that apply to people you disagree with.
@gomerjones No...that is according to God, not me. Nothing happens which is not the Will of God: either His Active Will for good, or His Passive Will where He allows evil to have its way.
Mary has repeatedly warned the Vatican & its clergy that either repent & reform, or that their blood would flow. As they ignored & disobeyed God, they chose "or". Over the past 160+ years. Most recently in the 70s. Yet they remain Deaf to God.
@gomerjones "....the priests are asking for vengeance, and vengeance is hanging over their heads. Woe to the priests and to those consecrated to God who by their infidelity and their wicked lives are crucifying My Son again! The sins of those dedicated to God cry out towards Heaven and call for vengeance, and now vengeance is at their door, for there is no one left to beg mercy and forgiveness for the people.."
@JPI280978 "....the priests are asking for vengeance, and vengeance is hanging over their heads..." etc.
I am stunned by your clairvoyance to be able to decide that such a passage must refer to any and all priests who have been murdered by the state. That such victims, whom you never met or knew or have record of their individual lives, stand so thusly judged by your perfect and all-seeing vision. They died, therefore they must be guilty.Correct?
@gomerjones What is 'stunning' is that you who are so utterly Blind & spiritual dead troll & attack those who have Faith. And anyone who dares to criticize the object of your 'faith': the Vatican.
@JPI280978 "Before, the cup was filling up. Now it is flowing over. Many cardinals, many bishops and many priests are on the road to perdition and are taking many souls with them."
"Fire will fall from the sky and will wipe out a great part of humanity, the good as well as the bad, sparing neither priests nor faithful. The survivors will find themselves so desolate that they will envy the dead"
@JPI280978 "What is 'stunning' is that you who are so utterly Blind & spiritual dead troll & attack those who have Faith. And anyone who dares to criticize the object of your 'faith': the Vatican."
Nope. I quote those who make up conspiracy theories about Opus Dei being behind the 9/11 attacks. I also point out the cowardice of people who urge violence from behind their computer screens.
That's all you got.You don't know what else I believe. B/C I don't engage on the other stuff. Pointless
@CathPresbyter Further, if you point out any of his inconsistencies, hypocrisy, insanity, or baseless speculation, he'll call you an Opus Dei conspirator. He'll claim to have had visions into your soul. He'll say that you're a pedophile and that it has been "spiritually proven." No, I have no idea what that means. And I haven't embellished this.
So what I'm saying is, don't waste your time. He needs medication.
@gomerjones But you have to admit the video he references does need to be addressed. I will have to study the quotes in context, both textual and historical to see their relevance. They may indeed show that the church was wrong in its application of penetential over the criminal system because these acts though canonical crimes, are also civil crimes. You know even a 'conspiracy theorist' can be right on a point here and there. We shouldn't dismiss all his points because we disagree others.
@CathPresbyter Sorry, he doesn't argue with facts, but with speculation, innuendo, misrepresentation, and flat-out delusion. He'll deny facts and demand proof he'd never be able to provide himself. He is irrational and a bigot. He's not worth engaging.
@gomerjones It is yourself who are irrational. You have trolled me all over YT, as a vendetta. And it is you who supports pedo priest abusers by your own words.
And it is your who fear incarceration for being a pedarast, Yet you are a (false) 'pious Catholic' who support OD & clerical corruption, as it enables you.
@JPI280978 "You have trolled me all over YT, as a vendetta. And it is you who supports pedo priest abusers by your own words."
Hey - what's it called when a delusional, mentally disturbed man trolls all over YT, and then when others quote his own words, he calls THEM "trolls" ?
Answer: hypocrisy. Sad, pathetic hypocrisy.
And nope. I don't support pedo priest abusers, and you can't quote me. You're projecting again. I'm the one that only has to quote your own words.Which you've never denied
@JPI280978 "If one searches what you have posted on other threads, you make it VERY obvious that you support the pedo priests."
LOL. Obvious? Sounds like more of the complete lack of proof that always supports your outrageous claims. Vague analogies, hand-waving references, etc. Oh so sad.
@JPI280978 "The only reason you are following me here is to troll me. You would not have come on this thread otherwise. That much is obvious to all."
The only reason YOU came here was to troll and spout off crazy conspiracy theories about Opus Dei!
Can't you see your own hypocrisy? Is your life lived so completely devoid of self-reflection?
@JPI280978 "The comments on this thread show you for what you are: ?v=tpDffQJjm9c And you will see how scores of other posters call you out for the lunatic which you are."
Indeed, there's a lot of people on that thread who cheer on violence b/c they don't like the victim. A cardinal broke his leg in that attack. And I point out how terrible violence is, and the cowardice of living vicariously through others' violence.
And just b/c there are many such cowards, doesn't make me a lunatic
@JPI280978 "The comments on this thread show you: ?v=tpDffQJjm9c And you will see how scores of other posters call you out for the lunatic which you are."
If you had reading comprehension, you would see that there are scores of people who make this argument or that argument or this insult or that insult vs. the pope or the catholic church.
Ever wonder why I don't comment on those?
Ever wonder why I'm only commenting on the violence statements?
Its funny but we need to be real here. In the first place John Jay's conclusions are a white wash. Their first study tells us that over 82% of the victims were post pubescent males, then the conclusions tell it is not homosexual.
Seriously
And Please don't tell me Pedophilia is not gender specific, that is a crime against pre-pubescent children. The Catholic problem mainly is hebophilia which is gender specific. The perps are unintegrated homosexuals
@CathPresbyter Your anger is very misdirected. I'm the person who posted this video, a female raped by a priest at age five... so you are not convincing me. The problems in the church are systemic and not to be explained awsay as a homosexual problem at all.
@cityofangelslady What anger. I am not angry. I am sorry you were a victim, the priest who abused you should be strung up, as the one who abused my brother should be. (Of course he is dead.)
The problem is systemic you are right, politicians running the chanceries, the culture of cover, liberal theology telling people to do whatever they want, and over 85% of the abuse by sodomite clergy.
The only thing I am angry about is liberals like Mahomo, and Bernadin cover for their buddies.
@CathPresbyter Clue: many if not most of the KNOWN abuse cases were either commited prior to Vatican II or by clerics trained in that period. Most seminaries have faculty who are members of or 'friendly'to Opus Dei.So this has zero to do with 'liberals'.
Clue: both Mahoney & Bernardin were VERY 'friendly to Opus Dei.
@JPI280978 Ok, so you are going to prove these points right? You make these claims but I don't see any references and I would like to see this. In particular 1) The majority of abuse cases committed before the council. 2) The majority of abusers being Trained in the Pre-conciliar era. 3) Most seminaries have faculties members who are OD. 4) A particularly friendly relationship of both Mahoney And Bernadin to OD? I await the response....
@CathPresbyter You seem to be allergic to reality and in Denial. Perhaps you should visit the BishopAccountability site & educated yourself. They have hundreds of pages of news & court documents online which clearly show that most of the abusers were trained PRE Vatican II; ditto for the Bishops who enabled & protected them.
As to Mahoney & Bernardin, their 'friendly to OD' status is easy to identify. OD works BOTH the left & the right in a Strategy of Tension.
@CathPresbyter If you are indeed 'well aware of the site', then you have read it & are familiar with the vast evidence therein. You would have a working knowledge of the matters which I cited. Hence no need to 'provide proof'.
Your comment indicates that you are lying. That you either have not read the site, disbelieve the facts it presents, or simply want to argue as a 'loyal catholic'.
None of that is honest, nor will get you to salvation.
Of course not! "Proof" is not what you show-it's what others have to show-right?Like when you've claimed that Opus Dei has kidnapped Mother Angelica. When prompted for the proof, you merely exclaim, 'hey - noone has seen her, it's up to YOU to prove she HASN'T been kidnapped by Opus Dei.'
What?
Huh?
So, @CathPresbyter, that's what you're working with here. You have to disprove his fantastic claims. He don't have to give you nuthin.
@CathPresbyter Mahoney is very close to Ratzinger (who is OD;s hero). Bernardin was Ordinary to a very OD diocese, & gave a parish over to be run by Opus Dei. Both men have ties to OD, & were appointed to their sees right after it was made a personal prelature. Along with O'Connor of NYC & Law of Boston.
@cityofangelslady So then why are more than 80% of the victims teen age boys? Why was Fr. Koss in Dallas a leading member of the homosexual community before he entered seminary? Cut the homosexual clergy you cut 85% of the abuse. Then the clergy abuse rate drops to mere decimal points, where the national average for males is 2.0
@CathPresbyter Cut the gay clergy.....and you will have empty Chanceries and an empty Vatican. That being said, most of the abusers are pansexual & amoral. There is no such thing as 'only 1 victim'; there are usually several per abuser. Often of both genders. And young adults can & are victims of sexual abuse too, done by clerical offenders.
Clerical sex abuse has been systemic & ongoing for well over 1000 years with Vatican knowledge.
@JPI280978 You may indeed have greatly less clergy if you cut the homosexuals, but the issue is you are saying that of these 'pan gender' abusers there are several victims of both sexes. Can you document this? (With legal proof.)
@CathPresbyter You are obviously a shill & in deep Denial. Otherwise you would not be arguing. The info showing that victims are of both genders is easy to find; I already gave you one of the best source. Yet you refuse to deal with reality.
In August 2011, an 86yo priest in NYC was arrested for repeatedly abusing a 16yo girl. Yet he was a 'man of confidence' in the Archdiocese. One does not become an abuser aty 86; there would be a string of victims whom bishops ignored.
@JPI280978@CathPresbyter Told you. Here comes the accusations that you're a shill and an Opus Dei operative.
Notice he refuses statistics. Notice he refuses to admit proof. Notice he'll demand proof without ever, ever, ever offering the same. Notice he'll embellish, distort, and project.
If he was right, he wouldn't have to be a hypocrite. He wouldn't have to fabricate. He wouldn't have to project.
That's because he's not right. He's mentally disturbed. Ask him about Opus Dei & 9/11
@gomerjones Well you are right. He won't cite facts, only say look at this cite or that cite, and when you disassemble parts of it,and tell him you will research the rest, he accuses you of being a lackie for OD. So he won't be confused with the facts. And the OD and Mahoney statements are beyond funny. Every OD person I know hates Mahoney and says of Bernadin that he only did for them what the Canons required of him, and only after much resistance.
@CathPresbyter If you were honest - which you are not - then you would not only know these things, but would search them out for yourself. As to Bernardin & Mahoney, there are pics & videos of the latter being chummy with Ratz prior to his election. Opus Dei works both the extreme Left AND Right in a Dialectic; Strategy of Tension.
"Every OD person I know..."....why thank you for identifying yourself, hence proving what was spoken of you.
@gomerjones I know pretty lame argumentation eh. I know some people into Bayside, but that doesn't mean I follow it. Or I met that 'Jesus Guy' they made the film about but I think he is completely wacko. I guess he doesn't want to be confused with the facts. Well his loss. Lets just hope he is so crazy he is not culpable at the end of time.
@CathPresbyter It is yourself who are culpable. As you condone & approve of the pedo priests/bishops & their episcopal protectors & enablers. To condone evil = to be guilty of it. Even if said approval is passive.
You only make matters worse for yourself by being in Denial.
Isn't it nice how JPI280978 will smear you and make up all sorts of ugly things about you? It really pops his balloon of being so much holier than everyone else.
One time, JPI280978 accused me, personally, of being an actual child abuser. He said that it had been "spiritually proven" by another poster- a fellow, random, anonymous internet poster.
If I had any shred of credence in his interpretation/proof of anything, it disappeared.
@JPI280978 Well you have shown yourself to fufill the prophecies of GomerJones. You go for personal attacks, and accuse the person of lying, and even challenge their salvation. (IE you judge them.) I am not OD, nor do I have an interest in their movement. Since you won't prove anything you claim, and only make vague references to web cites without actual hard data you have shown yourself to not to want to discuss the issues. Either give hard data or don't waste my time!
@CathPresbyter 'Every OD person I know...."....you speak with forked tongue, O son of Escriva! You claim to be a priest by your sn; yet coyly feign ignorance of that which is on your desk.
You are a liar. You have no faith. If you do not repent & be converted, then your fate shall be as described in Matthew 25: 11-12
@JPI280978 Having met a few people in OD does not make me an expert in the group. I have never done their retreats, what few books I have looked over don't appeal to me. That would be like calling me a son of Mother Teresa because I met a few of her nuns, when I really don't know anything. Or saying because I have a Jesuit Education that I am a son of the Jesuits. (Which I cannot stand that community.)
@CathPresbyter It is yourself who is delusional. As you have deluded yourself into thinking that being a 'loyal catholic' = automatic salvation. And that blind loyalty to the Vatican assures this. As the Vatican is run by Opus Dei, what you support is them & their agenda. You are not an 'innocent'. One need not be a literal member to be of them; most of their number are not official members.
CP, notice how he projects all sorts of beliefs on you? For merely disagreeing with him and his fantastical claims.
Also, when he says "Yout biggest problem is lack of Faith" he fails to realize he is 50% exactly correct. We do have a complete lack of faith - in him, his mental illness, his inability to reason, etc. But that's not a problem.
Factually, we know that Catholic Clerical Sex Abuse has been ongoing, systemic & KNOWN to the Vatican for well over 1000 years. So the true numbers, age & gender of the victims is unknown, but vast, as most cases were never reported due to fear of the Church!
While there are MANY gay priests, this is not a gay issue. Most abusers had multiple victims, often of BOTH genders.
JPI280978 6 months ago
@JPI280978 So you have some documents of the Vatican being aware of clerical abuse all the back to 1,000 years ago?
And the point of the Most Abusers having victims of BOTH genders? Or is this an argument from silence since your claim that 'the true numbers, age & gender of the victims is unknown." If not I want the references on these facts.
CathPresbyter 1 month ago
@CathPresbyter watch?v=hJ1_aQz6IuU
...and educate yourself. The evidence is in Canon Law, papal/Vatican pronouncements & documents, & the writings of certain saints. Of the KNOWN abuse cases, many abusers had victims of both genders. Though some only abused those of one gender. Gay priests are known to have abused BOTH boys AND girls; thus being pansexual.
The problem is that they are immoral & under demonic influence. Not that they are gay.
JPI280978 1 month ago
@JPI280978 OK, can you please tell me which canon law? Which code? What canons, give the citations. Oh and please show me the quotes of saints that are suppose to say what you think they are suppose to say. (You forgot to tell us what these saints were suppose to say.)
And what you do you mean gay priests are 'pansexual' by this you mean bi-sexual right? Isn't this a contradiction? Is this term you are using from any documented psychological journal? Cite the reference please?
CathPresbyter 1 month ago
@CathPresbyter You seem to be cognitively impaired, & in extreme Denial. The 'arguments' you are using are right out of the Opus Dei playbook. Identical to those of the OD talking heads on EWTN.
JPI280978 1 month ago
@JPI280978 Isn;t this exactly what GomerJones said you would do. He said this was your modus operandi. You accuse people of Being in with OD and stupid, provide no references oh and claim some kind of spiritual insight into this. (You did three out of four here.) I am not OD, nor do I have their 'play book,' Frankly I have never liked Escriva's works. I was willing to listen to your points and your facts but calling someone names is helping your position.
CathPresbyter 1 month ago
@CathPresbyter If you are going to take gomerpyle seriously, then it is you who needs help.....
All you have said is typical of the banter of Denial used by OD members; including EWTN 'stars'. If you know how to operate a search engine & to think objectively & process information, then you should be able to comprehend what has been said.
If you are indeed a Catholic priest, as you sn indicates, then you are required to like Escriva & OD. Please do not play games.
JPI280978 1 month ago
@JPI280978
Hey JPI280978 - I don't have to make fun of your user handle to prove my point. (BTW, is calling me "gomerpyle" conducive to the Sermon on the Mount?)
I don't have to fabricate charges against you.
I don't have to embellish a single thing.
All I have to do is quote what you say.
gomerjones 1 month ago
@JPI280978 Wait have you ever read the Didache that your video quotes? It lists lots of do's and don't. It was an early catechism, taken according to many scholars from Judiasm actually. (Reference Louth's book on the Church Fathers.) So are you slamming Jews also then? And the Council of Elvira forbed communion even at the point of death to child abusers. (This means they damned their souls to hell.) Nice cover up there.
CathPresbyter 1 month ago
@CathPresbyter First, that is not 'my' video. While imperfect, it makes the point. Clerical sex abuse has been an ongoing problem since the establishment of the Vatican in 325AD. The Church then controlled the state, in contradiction to Christ & the Gospel. This made any reporting of abuse nearly impossible, until modern times when there was more general freedom.
JPI280978 1 month ago
@JPI280978 You do have a point that clergy have abused people in the past. As they have stolen, lied, fornicated, just to name a few sins. This proves that they are sinners, and frankly you can say the same of every profession, unless you claim two distinctions! The cover up question goes to instutition. I still need to research the video. And another you didn't raise is does this profession have higher stats. IE is it systemic. I would love to see any stats you have on this.
CathPresbyter 1 month ago
@CathPresbyter The Vatican Administration has soiled its nappies so much over the past 1700 years, yet refuses to wash itself, repent & reform. Ignoring the repeated requests from God to do so. All of these are facts of history. Do not lie & try to deny it.
Via sex abuse, the Vatican is guilty of the murder of countless souls over many centuries. Due to the spiritual & sacramental it claims, the abuse done by clerics is FAR worse then that of any other persons.
JPI280978 1 month ago
@JPI280978 "All of these are facts of history. Do not lie & try to deny it."
Facts of history? You mean like your claims that Opus Dei was behind the attacks on 9/11, the banking crisis, killing JP1, kidnapping Mother Angelica, and, most recently, owning Hollywood?
All these are things that you've claimed. I haven't embellished a bit. Where is the proof for these delusions in your mind? Proof - you know - that thing you so often demand of others?
Hypocrite.
gomerjones 1 month ago
@JPI280978 Venerable Bede lists child abuse as a crime, as well as St. Peter Damian and attacked any cover ups, and Gratian which your video quotes wants them civily tried. (So you cannot blame Gratian for the cover up.) Pius V called for charging them. So your own video speaks of priests and canonists who went after abusers, as proof of a cover up. That is illogical.
CathPresbyter 1 month ago
@CathPresbyter What you fail to grasp is twofold: a) the pedo priest problem dates back well over 1000 years, and b) despite some hand-wringing, nothing of substance was ever done to correct the problem. And that is: lack of adequate supervision of clerics. Of course if many Bishops are also degenerates, they will not be going after the abusers, now will they? What has been done is to hush it up for centuries.
JPI280978 1 month ago
@JPI280978 BTW thanks for the link I will study it. But it seems the video's beef is against Pope Leo IX, Benedict XVI, and the 1917 code wanting to put this issue under the penetentary system, as opposed to reporting it, preceding manditory reporting laws! I would agree with this critizism, if these documents are in context, but it does not undermine the homosexual argument. Are you say no homosexuals were ordained before VII? If so why so many now as you noted below?
CathPresbyter 1 month ago
@CathPresbyter You should realize who you're arguing with. JPI280978 is a whackjob conspiracy theorist who believes that Opus Dei was behind the 9/11 attacks, the worldwide banking crisis, and a host of other things. In addition, he'll often refuse to cite any evidence for these conpiracy theories or other outrageous claims, but then turn around and demand exact proof from others. He's a hypocrite who claims the Sermon on the Mount is important, but then says martyred priests deserved to die.
gomerjones 1 month ago
@gomerjones You are a 'pious Catholic', yet you have no faith. If you did, then you would know that nothing happens which is not the Will of God. Thus if priests were murdered in Spain, it was God's Will - just as it was in the French Revolution. They brought it upon themselves by their sins.
And Mary specifically warned that priests would be killed at LaSalette (1846), due to their sins.
JPI280978 1 month ago
@JPI280978 "You are a 'pious Catholic', yet you have no faith." Nope, you have no idea whether I'm Catholic or Shinto. Because all I've ever done is condemn violence, bigotry, and hypocrisy. You get so mad because you know that's all you've got. That's why you have to make stuff up, like claiming that I've been "spiritually identified as a pedophile." Ridiculous.
You, on the other hand, are on record claiming Opus Dei was behind the 9/11 attacks. Your own words. No embellishment needed.
gomerjones 1 month ago
@gomerjones Factually, you were spiritually identified as a pedo by another poster who is a Catholic mystic, on another thread.
JPI280978 1 month ago
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@JPI280978 "Factually, you were spiritually identified as a pedo by another poster who is a Catholic mystic, on another thread."
LOL. Random troll on the internet = Catholic mystic?
This is the "PROOF" you so often demand of others? LOL.
Random, unproven strangers on the internet all of sudden are sources of FACTUAL proof as "MYSTICS" ?
This is your logic? These are your coherent arguments? This is the kind of "PROOF" you use, while doubting published statistics you don't like?
Sad.
gomerjones 1 month ago
@JPI280978 "If you did, then you would know that nothing happens which is not the Will of God. Thus if priests were murdered in Spain, it was God's Will."
Funny how when it's a priest that's murdered by the government, you say "it was God's Will" lending your support to the violence.
But then you'll condemn the death penalty in your own country.
SO.... I guess as long it's a priest getting put to death, you're okay with it.
(that's why I say you're a bigot, bigot)
gomerjones 1 month ago
@gomerjones You will die; when you do it shall be God's Will. As shall be the way you die. Nothing happens which is not God's Will.
God's Active Will is only for good. Evil is only allowed to happen by His Passive Will; wherein He lifts His protective hand. This is very basic theology which you should know, as a Catholic.
Via Mary & mortal prophets, God has repeatedly warned clergy to repent OR suffer persecution & slaughter. By refusing to obey God, they chose the latter.
JPI280978 1 month ago
@JPI280978 So according to you, then I guess when the US puts someone to death, it is God's Will. So stop complaining about it, like you've told others to stop complaining about murdered priests.
Or is it too much to ask that the same rules be applied to you that you apply to everyone else?
Wait, of course it is. You're a hypocrite. There are two sets of rules in your mind: A) Rules that apply to you B) Different rules that apply to people you disagree with.
Hypocrite.
gomerjones 1 month ago
@gomerjones No...that is according to God, not me. Nothing happens which is not the Will of God: either His Active Will for good, or His Passive Will where He allows evil to have its way.
Mary has repeatedly warned the Vatican & its clergy that either repent & reform, or that their blood would flow. As they ignored & disobeyed God, they chose "or". Over the past 160+ years. Most recently in the 70s. Yet they remain Deaf to God.
JPI280978 1 month ago
@gomerjones "....the priests are asking for vengeance, and vengeance is hanging over their heads. Woe to the priests and to those consecrated to God who by their infidelity and their wicked lives are crucifying My Son again! The sins of those dedicated to God cry out towards Heaven and call for vengeance, and now vengeance is at their door, for there is no one left to beg mercy and forgiveness for the people.."
- Mary
JPI280978 1 month ago
@JPI280978 "....the priests are asking for vengeance, and vengeance is hanging over their heads..." etc.
I am stunned by your clairvoyance to be able to decide that such a passage must refer to any and all priests who have been murdered by the state. That such victims, whom you never met or knew or have record of their individual lives, stand so thusly judged by your perfect and all-seeing vision. They died, therefore they must be guilty.Correct?
Sad, pathetic, hypocrisy.
gomerjones 1 month ago
@gomerjones What is 'stunning' is that you who are so utterly Blind & spiritual dead troll & attack those who have Faith. And anyone who dares to criticize the object of your 'faith': the Vatican.
JPI280978 1 month ago
@JPI280978 "Before, the cup was filling up. Now it is flowing over. Many cardinals, many bishops and many priests are on the road to perdition and are taking many souls with them."
"Fire will fall from the sky and will wipe out a great part of humanity, the good as well as the bad, sparing neither priests nor faithful. The survivors will find themselves so desolate that they will envy the dead"
- Mary
JPI280978 1 month ago
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@JPI280978 "What is 'stunning' is that you who are so utterly Blind & spiritual dead troll & attack those who have Faith. And anyone who dares to criticize the object of your 'faith': the Vatican."
Nope. I quote those who make up conspiracy theories about Opus Dei being behind the 9/11 attacks. I also point out the cowardice of people who urge violence from behind their computer screens.
That's all you got.You don't know what else I believe. B/C I don't engage on the other stuff. Pointless
gomerjones 1 month ago
@CathPresbyter Further, if you point out any of his inconsistencies, hypocrisy, insanity, or baseless speculation, he'll call you an Opus Dei conspirator. He'll claim to have had visions into your soul. He'll say that you're a pedophile and that it has been "spiritually proven." No, I have no idea what that means. And I haven't embellished this.
So what I'm saying is, don't waste your time. He needs medication.
gomerjones 1 month ago
@gomerjones But you have to admit the video he references does need to be addressed. I will have to study the quotes in context, both textual and historical to see their relevance. They may indeed show that the church was wrong in its application of penetential over the criminal system because these acts though canonical crimes, are also civil crimes. You know even a 'conspiracy theorist' can be right on a point here and there. We shouldn't dismiss all his points because we disagree others.
CathPresbyter 1 month ago
@CathPresbyter Sorry, he doesn't argue with facts, but with speculation, innuendo, misrepresentation, and flat-out delusion. He'll deny facts and demand proof he'd never be able to provide himself. He is irrational and a bigot. He's not worth engaging.
gomerjones 1 month ago
@gomerjones It is yourself who are irrational. You have trolled me all over YT, as a vendetta. And it is you who supports pedo priest abusers by your own words.
And it is your who fear incarceration for being a pedarast, Yet you are a (false) 'pious Catholic' who support OD & clerical corruption, as it enables you.
JPI280978 1 month ago
@JPI280978 "You have trolled me all over YT, as a vendetta. And it is you who supports pedo priest abusers by your own words."
Hey - what's it called when a delusional, mentally disturbed man trolls all over YT, and then when others quote his own words, he calls THEM "trolls" ?
Answer: hypocrisy. Sad, pathetic hypocrisy.
And nope. I don't support pedo priest abusers, and you can't quote me. You're projecting again. I'm the one that only has to quote your own words.Which you've never denied
gomerjones 1 month ago
@gomerjones If one searches what you have posted on other threads, you make it VERY obvious that you support the pedo priests.
The only reason you are following me here is to troll me. You would not have come on this thread otherwise. That much is obvious to all.
JPI280978 1 month ago
@JPI280978 "If one searches what you have posted on other threads, you make it VERY obvious that you support the pedo priests."
LOL. Obvious? Sounds like more of the complete lack of proof that always supports your outrageous claims. Vague analogies, hand-waving references, etc. Oh so sad.
gomerjones 1 month ago
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@JPI280978 "The only reason you are following me here is to troll me. You would not have come on this thread otherwise. That much is obvious to all."
The only reason YOU came here was to troll and spout off crazy conspiracy theories about Opus Dei!
Can't you see your own hypocrisy? Is your life lived so completely devoid of self-reflection?
The answer - no you can't. And yes it is.
gomerjones 1 month ago
@gomerjones The comments on this thread show you for what you are:
?v=tpDffQJjm9c
And you will see how scores of other posters call you out for the lunatic which you are.
JPI280978 1 month ago
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@JPI280978 "The comments on this thread show you for what you are: ?v=tpDffQJjm9c And you will see how scores of other posters call you out for the lunatic which you are."
Indeed, there's a lot of people on that thread who cheer on violence b/c they don't like the victim. A cardinal broke his leg in that attack. And I point out how terrible violence is, and the cowardice of living vicariously through others' violence.
And just b/c there are many such cowards, doesn't make me a lunatic
gomerjones 1 month ago
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gomerjones 1 month ago
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@JPI280978 "The comments on this thread show you: ?v=tpDffQJjm9c And you will see how scores of other posters call you out for the lunatic which you are."
If you had reading comprehension, you would see that there are scores of people who make this argument or that argument or this insult or that insult vs. the pope or the catholic church.
Ever wonder why I don't comment on those?
Ever wonder why I'm only commenting on the violence statements?
Of course not. It's beyond you
gomerjones 1 month ago
Its funny but we need to be real here. In the first place John Jay's conclusions are a white wash. Their first study tells us that over 82% of the victims were post pubescent males, then the conclusions tell it is not homosexual.
Seriously
And Please don't tell me Pedophilia is not gender specific, that is a crime against pre-pubescent children. The Catholic problem mainly is hebophilia which is gender specific. The perps are unintegrated homosexuals
CathPresbyter 7 months ago
@CathPresbyter Your anger is very misdirected. I'm the person who posted this video, a female raped by a priest at age five... so you are not convincing me. The problems in the church are systemic and not to be explained awsay as a homosexual problem at all.
cityofangelslady 7 months ago
@cityofangelslady What anger. I am not angry. I am sorry you were a victim, the priest who abused you should be strung up, as the one who abused my brother should be. (Of course he is dead.)
The problem is systemic you are right, politicians running the chanceries, the culture of cover, liberal theology telling people to do whatever they want, and over 85% of the abuse by sodomite clergy.
The only thing I am angry about is liberals like Mahomo, and Bernadin cover for their buddies.
CathPresbyter 6 months ago
@CathPresbyter Clue: many if not most of the KNOWN abuse cases were either commited prior to Vatican II or by clerics trained in that period. Most seminaries have faculty who are members of or 'friendly'to Opus Dei.So this has zero to do with 'liberals'.
Clue: both Mahoney & Bernardin were VERY 'friendly to Opus Dei.
JPI280978 6 months ago
@JPI280978 Ok, so you are going to prove these points right? You make these claims but I don't see any references and I would like to see this. In particular 1) The majority of abuse cases committed before the council. 2) The majority of abusers being Trained in the Pre-conciliar era. 3) Most seminaries have faculties members who are OD. 4) A particularly friendly relationship of both Mahoney And Bernadin to OD? I await the response....
CathPresbyter 1 month ago
@CathPresbyter You seem to be allergic to reality and in Denial. Perhaps you should visit the BishopAccountability site & educated yourself. They have hundreds of pages of news & court documents online which clearly show that most of the abusers were trained PRE Vatican II; ditto for the Bishops who enabled & protected them.
As to Mahoney & Bernardin, their 'friendly to OD' status is easy to identify. OD works BOTH the left & the right in a Strategy of Tension.
JPI280978 1 month ago
@JPI280978 I am quite aware of the cite, I bookmarked it many years ago. Again can you please cite references for your statements. Proof please.
CathPresbyter 1 month ago
@CathPresbyter If you are indeed 'well aware of the site', then you have read it & are familiar with the vast evidence therein. You would have a working knowledge of the matters which I cited. Hence no need to 'provide proof'.
Your comment indicates that you are lying. That you either have not read the site, disbelieve the facts it presents, or simply want to argue as a 'loyal catholic'.
None of that is honest, nor will get you to salvation.
JPI280978 1 month ago
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@JPI280978 "Hence no need to 'provide proof'."
Of course not! "Proof" is not what you show-it's what others have to show-right?Like when you've claimed that Opus Dei has kidnapped Mother Angelica. When prompted for the proof, you merely exclaim, 'hey - noone has seen her, it's up to YOU to prove she HASN'T been kidnapped by Opus Dei.'
What?
Huh?
So, @CathPresbyter, that's what you're working with here. You have to disprove his fantastic claims. He don't have to give you nuthin.
Cuckoo.
gomerjones 1 month ago
@CathPresbyter Mahoney is very close to Ratzinger (who is OD;s hero). Bernardin was Ordinary to a very OD diocese, & gave a parish over to be run by Opus Dei. Both men have ties to OD, & were appointed to their sees right after it was made a personal prelature. Along with O'Connor of NYC & Law of Boston.
All of them had OD written all over them.
JPI280978 1 month ago
@cityofangelslady So then why are more than 80% of the victims teen age boys? Why was Fr. Koss in Dallas a leading member of the homosexual community before he entered seminary? Cut the homosexual clergy you cut 85% of the abuse. Then the clergy abuse rate drops to mere decimal points, where the national average for males is 2.0
CathPresbyter 6 months ago
@CathPresbyter Cut the gay clergy.....and you will have empty Chanceries and an empty Vatican. That being said, most of the abusers are pansexual & amoral. There is no such thing as 'only 1 victim'; there are usually several per abuser. Often of both genders. And young adults can & are victims of sexual abuse too, done by clerical offenders.
Clerical sex abuse has been systemic & ongoing for well over 1000 years with Vatican knowledge.
JPI280978 1 month ago
@JPI280978 You may indeed have greatly less clergy if you cut the homosexuals, but the issue is you are saying that of these 'pan gender' abusers there are several victims of both sexes. Can you document this? (With legal proof.)
CathPresbyter 1 month ago
@CathPresbyter You are obviously a shill & in deep Denial. Otherwise you would not be arguing. The info showing that victims are of both genders is easy to find; I already gave you one of the best source. Yet you refuse to deal with reality.
In August 2011, an 86yo priest in NYC was arrested for repeatedly abusing a 16yo girl. Yet he was a 'man of confidence' in the Archdiocese. One does not become an abuser aty 86; there would be a string of victims whom bishops ignored.
JPI280978 1 month ago
@JPI280978 @CathPresbyter Told you. Here comes the accusations that you're a shill and an Opus Dei operative.
Notice he refuses statistics. Notice he refuses to admit proof. Notice he'll demand proof without ever, ever, ever offering the same. Notice he'll embellish, distort, and project.
If he was right, he wouldn't have to be a hypocrite. He wouldn't have to fabricate. He wouldn't have to project.
That's because he's not right. He's mentally disturbed. Ask him about Opus Dei & 9/11
gomerjones 1 month ago
@gomerjones Well you are right. He won't cite facts, only say look at this cite or that cite, and when you disassemble parts of it,and tell him you will research the rest, he accuses you of being a lackie for OD. So he won't be confused with the facts. And the OD and Mahoney statements are beyond funny. Every OD person I know hates Mahoney and says of Bernadin that he only did for them what the Canons required of him, and only after much resistance.
CathPresbyter 1 month ago in playlist Uploaded videos
@CathPresbyter If you were honest - which you are not - then you would not only know these things, but would search them out for yourself. As to Bernardin & Mahoney, there are pics & videos of the latter being chummy with Ratz prior to his election. Opus Dei works both the extreme Left AND Right in a Dialectic; Strategy of Tension.
"Every OD person I know..."....why thank you for identifying yourself, hence proving what was spoken of you.
Convert while God allows you breath.
JPI280978 1 month ago
@JPI280978 @CathPresbyter
"'Every OD person I know...'....why thank you for identifying yourself, hence proving what was spoken of you."
See that? Since you know an Opus Dei person, all his conspiracy theories about you are true!
Amazing logic.
gomerjones 1 month ago
@gomerjones I know pretty lame argumentation eh. I know some people into Bayside, but that doesn't mean I follow it. Or I met that 'Jesus Guy' they made the film about but I think he is completely wacko. I guess he doesn't want to be confused with the facts. Well his loss. Lets just hope he is so crazy he is not culpable at the end of time.
CathPresbyter 1 week ago
@CathPresbyter It is yourself who are culpable. As you condone & approve of the pedo priests/bishops & their episcopal protectors & enablers. To condone evil = to be guilty of it. Even if said approval is passive.
You only make matters worse for yourself by being in Denial.
JPI280978 1 week ago
@JPI280978 @CathPresbyter
Isn't it nice how JPI280978 will smear you and make up all sorts of ugly things about you? It really pops his balloon of being so much holier than everyone else.
One time, JPI280978 accused me, personally, of being an actual child abuser. He said that it had been "spiritually proven" by another poster- a fellow, random, anonymous internet poster.
If I had any shred of credence in his interpretation/proof of anything, it disappeared.
He's not worth the time
gomerjones 1 week ago
@JPI280978 Well you have shown yourself to fufill the prophecies of GomerJones. You go for personal attacks, and accuse the person of lying, and even challenge their salvation. (IE you judge them.) I am not OD, nor do I have an interest in their movement. Since you won't prove anything you claim, and only make vague references to web cites without actual hard data you have shown yourself to not to want to discuss the issues. Either give hard data or don't waste my time!
CathPresbyter 1 month ago in playlist Uploaded videos
@CathPresbyter 'Every OD person I know...."....you speak with forked tongue, O son of Escriva! You claim to be a priest by your sn; yet coyly feign ignorance of that which is on your desk.
You are a liar. You have no faith. If you do not repent & be converted, then your fate shall be as described in Matthew 25: 11-12
JPI280978 1 month ago
@JPI280978 Having met a few people in OD does not make me an expert in the group. I have never done their retreats, what few books I have looked over don't appeal to me. That would be like calling me a son of Mother Teresa because I met a few of her nuns, when I really don't know anything. Or saying because I have a Jesuit Education that I am a son of the Jesuits. (Which I cannot stand that community.)
GET HELP you are delusional.
CathPresbyter 1 week ago
@CathPresbyter It is yourself who is delusional. As you have deluded yourself into thinking that being a 'loyal catholic' = automatic salvation. And that blind loyalty to the Vatican assures this. As the Vatican is run by Opus Dei, what you support is them & their agenda. You are not an 'innocent'. One need not be a literal member to be of them; most of their number are not official members.
Your biggest problem is lack of Faith.
JPI280978 1 week ago
@JPI280978 @CathPresbyter
CP, notice how he projects all sorts of beliefs on you? For merely disagreeing with him and his fantastical claims.
Also, when he says "Yout biggest problem is lack of Faith" he fails to realize he is 50% exactly correct. We do have a complete lack of faith - in him, his mental illness, his inability to reason, etc. But that's not a problem.
gomerjones 1 week ago
there are no questions.............EVER!!
mexdrumpiano 8 months ago
2:15 on is the best bit of this video :D
mish2305 9 months ago
Don't go to places where profanity is used? How about inviting little
boys to their rooms? You'd be surprised where priests go.
huachafo1 9 months ago
What's a priest doing on the colbert report I thought they don't go to places where profanity is used
ImSkyHigh77 9 months ago
Colbert hits a home run.
frankjdouglas6262 9 months ago