This is a fantastic scene although String has a very good point in regards to business. But what String did not understand is the streets and your name and how people perceive you. Avon knew that if he was toilet on those corner people would be saying that he is weak and turned soft, thus making him appear weak. So he had to display that he was still in control and of top. Protect your reputation, your name is all that you have a whatever idea that is attached to your name people are going to t
Avon is the man, and this scene does a great job of showing the fundamental difference between the two. Stringer was in it for the money. Avon was in it (yeah for the money too) mostly for the rep and control of the West Side. He wasn't peace time boss.
Stringer thought that Avon should have grown out of a desire for 'respect' by that time, and he gave him an opportunity to. Stringer had done, but Avon was just 'a gangsta, I suppose'. They make their own choices for their own reasons.
Malik Jubal-I'm just a Gangster I suspose! That is right up there with Don Vito Corleone "And if someday an honest man like yourself should make enemies, then theywill become my enemies. And then they will fear you."
Prison softened Avon. The most important line in this scene is Avon saying "shit i didn't think i'd be around this long." Avon had an existential crisis, and is losing his reason for being. He cant control the game with force like he could before. Stringer is right about everything he is saying in this scene. But he is unknowingly (or perhaps knowingly) emasculating Avon, and damned if it didn't lead to Avon explosively self destructing like he did, taking Stringer with him.
Avon was right about the rep because it is rep that stops other people muscling you out. The reason marlo rised so high was because he had more muscle and string and prop joe wouldn't put him down early and tried talking business instead. also marlo was able to sell out the pakages just like joe and string cause he gave everyone else no other choice. like brother malzone said "your doing business now , what got you here was your reputation".
@FFAFROCK93 good analysis... it shows everything that is wrong with the idea of illegal markets in the first place and why they should end the war on drugs. that said if avon knew how ruthless marlo was (ie way more than avon himself, who follows a code) he should have hired mouzone from the start. mouzone would have never even been seen by chris and snoop before they were killed. but the conclusion is always the same, it's the game itself that fucks everyone over sooner or later.
Stringer had it right. He was ready to leave the game and live a life without fear of cops and competing drug dealers. Avon was ready to stay in the game til he was too old too walk. Sooner or later, his luck would've run out and he'd have gotten caught anyway.
The longer you gamble, the more likely you are to lose.
We see who what would have happened to Avon if he had become a businessman with Marlo at the end of S5. He was lost, and clearly hated it. Marlo, like Avon, was just a gangster...I suppose.
The black street characters in The Wire, clearly stole the show! The entire show and the incredible writing was phenominal, from the dock sequences, City Hall, and News Paper, but this is the first show in which the street characters were more interesting than the police characters. Lester Freeman is the most interesting, strong police character here. I didn't care for Kima or McNulty. The Maj. Valchek character, the Greeks, and Frank Sabotka were incredible! Malik Jubal
I'm just a Gangsta I Suppose! This show, even beyond any modern Hood Gangster movies, finally wrote real, credible dialogue for black male gangsters. The entire series of The Wire features plenty of scenes in which the black actors shine, reminicent of old school gangster movies like The Godfather, Scarface. Even the kids in this show, talk like real people, and not cliche' over acting as depicted in the movie Hollywood Shuffle. Malik Jubal
Any criminal with half a brain knows that notoreity gets you killed or in jail. Having a street rep is more a hassle than anything else. People will gun for you and the government will invest millions of dollars investigating and watching your ass.... nobody wants to be in the newspapers if they want to survive in organized crime for a long time.
@iamjohn89 It has nothing to do wi'th satisfaction it's just his mentality. He's a gangster as he makes a point to let the audience know that with his line "I'm just a gangster I suppose". That's all it really is, that's what he breathes, that's what he knows.
Stringer didn't have to rat on Avon. Avon HAD to do Stringer. Ask anybody on the street who did what they had to and who did dirt and they'd explain. Stringer could have let his beef go. Avon couldn't, Stringer put himself in the box. Avon just did what he had to by given him up.
Stringer indeed had the right idea in mind, namely that there is no use in killing people for territory if you don't have the product to sell on the territory....or better yet, quality product sell on the territory. Corners minus product do not yield a profit and thus, are worthless. It's too bad he wasn't the best person in the world. It may have been beneficial for the Barksdale organization, but having your best friend's nephew killed and staging it to look like a suicide is pretty jacked up.
I don't see how String was more or less of a rat than Avon was. It's the game, plain and simple. Avon had to give up Stringer because of the game. Stringer had to do the same...it's the game. But in the end, Stringer's advice was best in this scene. Avon just figured it out too late. Who really cares who runs the corner if you're taking the loot anyway?
Like the Co-Op finds out in Season 4, territory matters when someone else (like Marlo) starts taking corners and refuses to take the product. Stringer's advice was only good if Marlo listened to it to, and the later scenes show that when Stringer tries to get Marlo into the co-op, Marlo rejects him, takes it as a sign of weakness and hits the Barksdales back harder.
@yawnn112 Avon took stringer OUT THE GAME... Stringer ratted to the police... he was a POLICE informant... a SONGbird.... didn't even have the balls to take avon out with his own hands... not to mention the shit he did with D's girl... getting D executed.... he's just a fucking snake!
@yawnn112 Stringer ratted on Avon because he wanted to take Avon out and run east side his way. Avon ratted on Stringer because if he didn't everyone would be FUCKED
@tommybrown187 that can't be the case...if it was then Stringer couldn't have lived as long as he did in this season. I think that Avon actually understood why Stringer did what he did to D. He just couldn't let what happened with Brother Mousome slide. The game wouldn't let him do that.
@tommybrown187 Ok with it? Nah...but if he DIDN'T at least understand Stringer's logic, then explain why he protected Stringer when they were being questioned by Brianna about what happened to her son?
@yawnn112 cause how could he break it to his sister that he ALLOWED someone in they organization to kill his nephew and her son! he couldnt live wit telling her something like that. avon felt just as guilty for it happening. i think he blamed himself as much as stringer. he didnt have anything to do with it but he is the BOSS! and that was his family...but u knew when stringer told him avon was gonna get venegence
@tommybrown187 1. Wee Bey basically explained Avon's logic in Season 2 after D got did in when he said to Avon in jail that while what happened was sad, D almost rolled over on all of them and maybe what happened was for the best. 2. After Avon's initial anger towards Stringer, nothing was done. Nothing. Now as rough as Avon was and how the war with Marlo played out, do you really think that he would sneakily try to off Stringer? Avon didn't like what was done, I agree. But he understood.
@tommybrown187 Avon would have let the thing with D slide. It drove a bit of a wedge between Avon and String, but it had nothing to do with Avon giving up Stringer to Mouzone. Mouzone laid it on the table, give up Stringer or die with him.
Stringer thought he was a bit smarter than he actually was. If Avon wasn't locked up things would have worked out a lot better. Stringer was a good #2 man but he didn't know the street well enough. He was good on the business but not that other thing.
@tommybrown187 I do agree that what happened played a part in Avon giving up Stringer. But had Stringer not played Mousome off against Omar for the drug connect, I don't think that Avon would have given Stringer up. Mousome understood this, which is why he told Avon what he told him.
Its not just about the "loot", which is the position that Avon held. One could have all the money in the world but lack that genuine sense of 'respect'. Avon's idea of respect was his name. Some young lad like Marlo forcing Avon's recruits off his OWN territory is a mockery of his name. Re-gaining that respect in the game is more important to him.
@kandinskyforfootball My point exactly. You're talking like Avon. Even Avon agreed that his way of thinking was flawed. Check the last episode of Season 3...he even agreed that all of this warring for a couple of corners was all bull. That's when Slim Charles reminds him that once you're in a war, you in it. A veiled shot at the 2nd Gulf War, I think.
Sick scene. This is where we REALLY get to know who Avon is. That one little sentence encapsulates what type of person Barksdale is. And it's interesting because even though he has ruthless intent, the writers do a great job of making Avon's dedication to his ruthless ways seem honourable...and it kinda is in a weird way. Stringer on the other hand was a rat..how people can love the character I don't know
because stringer desires to be something better, but he's trapped in the game. he is a tragic figure. who cares if he is a rat? avon didn't know he was a rat when he gave him up to omar. does that make avon a rat? they are both murdering scum at the end of the day, but both of them have certain principles that seperate them from the likes of marlo. unfortunately this makes them weaker than marlo in the street. same story as D and saboka
Interesting, but I don't buy your defence of Stringer. Yes Avon did give him up to Omar but maybe you are forgetting that a day prior to that Stringer told Avon to his face that he killed his nephew. Avon may act like it 'was the right thing to do', but there are subtle hints that indicate that Avon would not have done his own nephew in had Stringer not, so, understandably Stringer lost some love from Barksdale and Avon givin him up seems fair to me.
avon doesn't strike me as the sentimental type. he was angry about it but he wouldnt have given him up for just that because he knew at some level it had to be done. the rooftop scene where he and stringer are talking about the old days is more telling. stringer is ashamed of having been poor and is turned on by owning everything now. barksdale has good memories and just wants to be the baddest guy in that neighborhood as long as possible. both of them have competing visions of what they need
Avon didnt give him up really. stringer was gonna get it regardless. After he asked how much it was gonna cost 4 this to go away brother mazone let him know money cnt solve this. Avon knew it stringer's life was out of his hands. Stringer thought while avon was in jail he could make all da money "legit" he was so into legit money. He wanted out of the game 4 both of em. so really it all came dwn to the love they got 4 each other. sounds crazy but its true
"Since when do we BUY corners, we TAKE corners" - classic
kandinskyforfootball 1 day ago
This is a fantastic scene although String has a very good point in regards to business. But what String did not understand is the streets and your name and how people perceive you. Avon knew that if he was toilet on those corner people would be saying that he is weak and turned soft, thus making him appear weak. So he had to display that he was still in control and of top. Protect your reputation, your name is all that you have a whatever idea that is attached to your name people are going to t
Prestrev 1 day ago
@Prestrev Thats true, if he left it how it was sooner or later marlo would of tried take em out.
KiNGG2K8 1 day ago
Avon is the man, and this scene does a great job of showing the fundamental difference between the two. Stringer was in it for the money. Avon was in it (yeah for the money too) mostly for the rep and control of the West Side. He wasn't peace time boss.
AWard2184 3 weeks ago
@AWard2184 stringer bleeds green avon bleeds red
cmcwade85 2 days ago
we TAKE corners
MichaelScarn23 1 month ago
Death of a friendship.
theonecb5 1 month ago
first you steal the badminton set, than you take the corners, then you get the prison
ShitWrangler 2 months ago 7
Stringer thought that Avon should have grown out of a desire for 'respect' by that time, and he gave him an opportunity to. Stringer had done, but Avon was just 'a gangsta, I suppose'. They make their own choices for their own reasons.
brookin 2 months ago
Malik Jubal-I'm just a Gangster I suspose! That is right up there with Don Vito Corleone "And if someday an honest man like yourself should make enemies, then theywill become my enemies. And then they will fear you."
LordIam1 2 months ago
...and I want my corners.
SNOWMANABM 3 months ago
Prison softened Avon. The most important line in this scene is Avon saying "shit i didn't think i'd be around this long." Avon had an existential crisis, and is losing his reason for being. He cant control the game with force like he could before. Stringer is right about everything he is saying in this scene. But he is unknowingly (or perhaps knowingly) emasculating Avon, and damned if it didn't lead to Avon explosively self destructing like he did, taking Stringer with him.
jesusftw 4 months ago 4
@jesusftw spot on
IggyDaKid 3 months ago
@jesusftw what you wrote was the best description of that dynamic I'd ever read. Existential crisis indeed.
marcusgarvey61 2 months ago
I love how it was all calm and avon actually LISTENED even though he didnt agree. Then he gave his response. Wise
gxenoraf22 4 months ago
"Like businessman....Yeah, I aint no suit wearing businessman like you!!! You know, I'm just a gangsta I suppose, and I want my corners."
You are what you are in this world.
y05ngmoney 5 months ago
Avon was right about the rep because it is rep that stops other people muscling you out. The reason marlo rised so high was because he had more muscle and string and prop joe wouldn't put him down early and tried talking business instead. also marlo was able to sell out the pakages just like joe and string cause he gave everyone else no other choice. like brother malzone said "your doing business now , what got you here was your reputation".
FFAFROCK93 5 months ago 3
@FFAFROCK93 good analysis... it shows everything that is wrong with the idea of illegal markets in the first place and why they should end the war on drugs. that said if avon knew how ruthless marlo was (ie way more than avon himself, who follows a code) he should have hired mouzone from the start. mouzone would have never even been seen by chris and snoop before they were killed. but the conclusion is always the same, it's the game itself that fucks everyone over sooner or later.
ravenouscolonelhart 5 months ago
Greatest line in Wire history.
ThePrinceII 6 months ago
Just a Gangster, i suppose - Avon was 100% Gangster, no doubt!!!!!!!!!
perfect6091 7 months ago
Stringer had it right. He was ready to leave the game and live a life without fear of cops and competing drug dealers. Avon was ready to stay in the game til he was too old too walk. Sooner or later, his luck would've run out and he'd have gotten caught anyway.
The longer you gamble, the more likely you are to lose.
mankyller 7 months ago
We see who what would have happened to Avon if he had become a businessman with Marlo at the end of S5. He was lost, and clearly hated it. Marlo, like Avon, was just a gangster...I suppose.
ThePrinceII 8 months ago
I aint no suit businessman like you string, i'm just a gangsta i suppose, and I want my corners
sportsman912 9 months ago 3
Anyone else here the screech of the car tyres at 2:37 when Avon says with contempt "Like businessmen?"
U-turn baby!
MrHennessy30 9 months ago 2
Comment removed
kandinskyforfootball 9 months ago
stop playing them away games string.
daveibukun 10 months ago
The black street characters in The Wire, clearly stole the show! The entire show and the incredible writing was phenominal, from the dock sequences, City Hall, and News Paper, but this is the first show in which the street characters were more interesting than the police characters. Lester Freeman is the most interesting, strong police character here. I didn't care for Kima or McNulty. The Maj. Valchek character, the Greeks, and Frank Sabotka were incredible! Malik Jubal
LordIam1 10 months ago 2
I'm just a Gangsta I Suppose! This show, even beyond any modern Hood Gangster movies, finally wrote real, credible dialogue for black male gangsters. The entire series of The Wire features plenty of scenes in which the black actors shine, reminicent of old school gangster movies like The Godfather, Scarface. Even the kids in this show, talk like real people, and not cliche' over acting as depicted in the movie Hollywood Shuffle. Malik Jubal
LordIam1 10 months ago 3
Stringer wanted to take Avon out of his comfort zone, where he would have lost his identity in the business world.
TheBigEase 1 year ago
"I'm just a gangsta, I suppose" . One of the best (if not the best) quotes from the Wire.
KrazySexciKewl 1 year ago 6
Comment removed
Amsterdam819 1 year ago
@Amsterdam819 nigga you trippin string no wer it at yo
sasgay 1 year ago
@Amsterdam819
you sound stupid
suaveG216 1 year ago
avon became who he is by being a gangsta that's him
Alara0625 1 year ago
love this scene. i think this is the first time that string realized that one of them had to go, one way or another.
whythismom 1 year ago 2
@ 00:49 that was not Stringer's voice, wth was that about?
illouie 1 year ago
Avon had the right idea when he wanted to kill Marlo. Look what happened when the co-op tried to reason with him.
drktigger 1 year ago
Avon was a stupid ass nigga. Stringer had a belt wrapped around the wrong cats neck. He should have killed Avons ignorant ass.
uofm53 1 year ago
String bleeds green. Avon bleeds red.
DanTheMan2385 1 year ago
Comment removed
DanTheMan2385 1 year ago
Any criminal with half a brain knows that notoreity gets you killed or in jail. Having a street rep is more a hassle than anything else. People will gun for you and the government will invest millions of dollars investigating and watching your ass.... nobody wants to be in the newspapers if they want to survive in organized crime for a long time.
maddingo12 1 year ago
Comment removed
ThaTrillMagician 1 year ago
25 mill a year and he still wants his corners, some people are never satisfied
iamjohn89 1 year ago
@iamjohn89 It has nothing to do wi'th satisfaction it's just his mentality. He's a gangster as he makes a point to let the audience know that with his line "I'm just a gangster I suppose". That's all it really is, that's what he breathes, that's what he knows.
Suprafly05 1 year ago
Stringer didn't have to rat on Avon. Avon HAD to do Stringer. Ask anybody on the street who did what they had to and who did dirt and they'd explain. Stringer could have let his beef go. Avon couldn't, Stringer put himself in the box. Avon just did what he had to by given him up.
Traye76 1 year ago
Stringer explaining opportunity cost and diminishing marginal returns
DanielFarrell85 1 year ago 45
Stringer had all the business smarts but not good street smarts
Avon had it the other way around.
ScrewedupTexan 1 year ago
@ScrewedupTexan yeah like the number "69"
TubeGuest5178 1 year ago
history is economics. Always has been and always will been. ces't la vie.
IHateBarnett 1 year ago
Stringer indeed had the right idea in mind, namely that there is no use in killing people for territory if you don't have the product to sell on the territory....or better yet, quality product sell on the territory. Corners minus product do not yield a profit and thus, are worthless. It's too bad he wasn't the best person in the world. It may have been beneficial for the Barksdale organization, but having your best friend's nephew killed and staging it to look like a suicide is pretty jacked up.
knight7se7en 2 years ago
I don't see how String was more or less of a rat than Avon was. It's the game, plain and simple. Avon had to give up Stringer because of the game. Stringer had to do the same...it's the game. But in the end, Stringer's advice was best in this scene. Avon just figured it out too late. Who really cares who runs the corner if you're taking the loot anyway?
yawnn112 2 years ago 24
Like the Co-Op finds out in Season 4, territory matters when someone else (like Marlo) starts taking corners and refuses to take the product. Stringer's advice was only good if Marlo listened to it to, and the later scenes show that when Stringer tries to get Marlo into the co-op, Marlo rejects him, takes it as a sign of weakness and hits the Barksdales back harder.
MrZugga 2 years ago
@yawnn112 what I hated about Stringer was that he did some devious GAME RULE BENDING SHYDZ. hE WAS on some psycho shydz.
TubeGuest5178 1 year ago
@yawnn112 Avon took stringer OUT THE GAME... Stringer ratted to the police... he was a POLICE informant... a SONGbird.... didn't even have the balls to take avon out with his own hands... not to mention the shit he did with D's girl... getting D executed.... he's just a fucking snake!
dawghead99 1 year ago
@yawnn112 Stringer ratted on Avon because he wanted to take Avon out and run east side his way. Avon ratted on Stringer because if he didn't everyone would be FUCKED
BHanson41z 1 year ago
@yawnn112 but th eonly reason avon gave up stringer was cause he murdered his nephew
tommybrown187 1 year ago
@tommybrown187 that can't be the case...if it was then Stringer couldn't have lived as long as he did in this season. I think that Avon actually understood why Stringer did what he did to D. He just couldn't let what happened with Brother Mousome slide. The game wouldn't let him do that.
yawnn112 1 year ago
@yawnn112 so you think he was actually OK with stringer killing his family? hell nah...avon just find a way to kill 2 birds with 1 stone
tommybrown187 1 year ago
@tommybrown187 Ok with it? Nah...but if he DIDN'T at least understand Stringer's logic, then explain why he protected Stringer when they were being questioned by Brianna about what happened to her son?
yawnn112 1 year ago
@yawnn112 cause how could he break it to his sister that he ALLOWED someone in they organization to kill his nephew and her son! he couldnt live wit telling her something like that. avon felt just as guilty for it happening. i think he blamed himself as much as stringer. he didnt have anything to do with it but he is the BOSS! and that was his family...but u knew when stringer told him avon was gonna get venegence
tommybrown187 1 year ago
@tommybrown187 1. Wee Bey basically explained Avon's logic in Season 2 after D got did in when he said to Avon in jail that while what happened was sad, D almost rolled over on all of them and maybe what happened was for the best. 2. After Avon's initial anger towards Stringer, nothing was done. Nothing. Now as rough as Avon was and how the war with Marlo played out, do you really think that he would sneakily try to off Stringer? Avon didn't like what was done, I agree. But he understood.
yawnn112 1 year ago
@tommybrown187 Avon would have let the thing with D slide. It drove a bit of a wedge between Avon and String, but it had nothing to do with Avon giving up Stringer to Mouzone. Mouzone laid it on the table, give up Stringer or die with him.
Stringer thought he was a bit smarter than he actually was. If Avon wasn't locked up things would have worked out a lot better. Stringer was a good #2 man but he didn't know the street well enough. He was good on the business but not that other thing.
g4n2g0 1 year ago 2
@tommybrown187 I do agree that what happened played a part in Avon giving up Stringer. But had Stringer not played Mousome off against Omar for the drug connect, I don't think that Avon would have given Stringer up. Mousome understood this, which is why he told Avon what he told him.
yawnn112 1 year ago
@yawnn112
cuz Avon doesnt give a shit about the money, at least not as much as his reputation and name
1L4MK 7 months ago 2
@yawnn112
wrong Avon gave up string because of respect and his image.. String gave up Avon because he wanted out of the 'gangster bullshit'
oye2a2000 5 months ago
@oye2a2000 And how is any of that not part of the game?
yawnn112 2 months ago
@yawnn112
Everything in the underworld is the game,
I was correcting ur interpretation, it's not about the money for Avon and ur comment suggested it was all about "taking the loot" as you put it.
oye2a2000 2 months ago
@oye2a2000
Most things in live is a "game" its just not so visible
cuddySback 1 month ago
Its not just about the "loot", which is the position that Avon held. One could have all the money in the world but lack that genuine sense of 'respect'. Avon's idea of respect was his name. Some young lad like Marlo forcing Avon's recruits off his OWN territory is a mockery of his name. Re-gaining that respect in the game is more important to him.
kandinskyforfootball 2 months ago
@kandinskyforfootball My point exactly. You're talking like Avon. Even Avon agreed that his way of thinking was flawed. Check the last episode of Season 3...he even agreed that all of this warring for a couple of corners was all bull. That's when Slim Charles reminds him that once you're in a war, you in it. A veiled shot at the 2nd Gulf War, I think.
yawnn112 2 months ago
Sick scene. This is where we REALLY get to know who Avon is. That one little sentence encapsulates what type of person Barksdale is. And it's interesting because even though he has ruthless intent, the writers do a great job of making Avon's dedication to his ruthless ways seem honourable...and it kinda is in a weird way. Stringer on the other hand was a rat..how people can love the character I don't know
TheDarkKnight1985 2 years ago
because stringer desires to be something better, but he's trapped in the game. he is a tragic figure. who cares if he is a rat? avon didn't know he was a rat when he gave him up to omar. does that make avon a rat? they are both murdering scum at the end of the day, but both of them have certain principles that seperate them from the likes of marlo. unfortunately this makes them weaker than marlo in the street. same story as D and saboka
joegibbskins 2 years ago 2
Interesting, but I don't buy your defence of Stringer. Yes Avon did give him up to Omar but maybe you are forgetting that a day prior to that Stringer told Avon to his face that he killed his nephew. Avon may act like it 'was the right thing to do', but there are subtle hints that indicate that Avon would not have done his own nephew in had Stringer not, so, understandably Stringer lost some love from Barksdale and Avon givin him up seems fair to me.
TheDarkKnight1985 2 years ago 3
avon doesn't strike me as the sentimental type. he was angry about it but he wouldnt have given him up for just that because he knew at some level it had to be done. the rooftop scene where he and stringer are talking about the old days is more telling. stringer is ashamed of having been poor and is turned on by owning everything now. barksdale has good memories and just wants to be the baddest guy in that neighborhood as long as possible. both of them have competing visions of what they need
joegibbskins 2 years ago
Avon didnt give him up really. stringer was gonna get it regardless. After he asked how much it was gonna cost 4 this to go away brother mazone let him know money cnt solve this. Avon knew it stringer's life was out of his hands. Stringer thought while avon was in jail he could make all da money "legit" he was so into legit money. He wanted out of the game 4 both of em. so really it all came dwn to the love they got 4 each other. sounds crazy but its true
MrDuggie35 2 years ago
I think he just knows who he is, that's a gift!!!
jeromemilton 2 years ago
avon is cold as hell yo
kdogdamonster 2 years ago 2