also, in John 3:31, "anothen" used there could be translated "from the first" meaning from God. John 3:3 is understood to be again because of the context of the scripture around it. if it meant "from above" here then Nicodemus would not have asked if a man can enter into his mothers womb a "second time." a better translation would not be "born again," but "born anew." This would explain the confusion and the reason Jesus had to explain it to Nicodemus.
Truthem, you don't look at everything do you? John 1:35; 4:3,13,46,54 etc. use the Greek word "palin" which is the Greek conjunction "again." In John 19:23 it is the Greek word "anothen" which means "top or from above" in this case because it is preceded bythe Greek words "ek" (from) and "ho" (the).
The interesting thing is the lesson Mrs. Grooves was trying to get across was actually very clear, especially with the Hebrew example of Hesed. So if you will please quit the trivial red herring fallacies then we can carry along with enjoying the video. Yet, I do invite comments because the individuals who watch this channel do (as she said) know enough greek and hebrew to be dangerous.
Actually the idea is in scripture - 1Peter 1:23 the word is avnagegennhme,noi in greek. Which is essentially talking about the same idea. Peter says one must be born again of imperishable seed which is clearly describing the imperishable quality of the heavenly realm in which the Lord God is seated in Sabbath Rest. Anothen can mean from above as well as from anew (new beginnings).
In English is "from the top" (ano = above, then = from). Christ's tunic was "woven from the top [anothen] in one piece" (John 19:23). John uses the expression only in the sense of "from above" (see also John 3:31, 19:11).
When John wants to say "again," he uses other terms. One such term is palin (John 1:35, 4:3, 13, 46, 54, etc.). John 3:3, therefore, should be rendered "born from above," not "born again."
You're throwing a lot of questions at me. Did I not give you enough evidence of what Jesus said, according to the earliest Greek scripture?
There is lots of research available that is not tainted by voices on the payroll of clerical authority. You can do your own research. Please watch my Playlist: Bart Ehrman - Misquoting Jesus.
If you don't want a lot of questions thrown at you, then try to avoid making bold and silly claims that you can't - or for some reason won't - back up.
- Groves is "a professor compelled to obfuscate!"
- "John uses the expression *only* in the sense of 'from above'" (Emphasis mine.)
- "When John wants to say 'again,' he uses other terms." (The implication being that he *always" uses other terms.)
(Two of these are basically begging the question.)
I am not aware of any instances where John says 'born again'. The verses I cited are compelling. I don't spend my days sifting through these pages of this horrible mad-made books of superstition. If you do than we have very little in common, other than the fact that we are both poorly evolved apes.
also, in John 3:31, "anothen" used there could be translated "from the first" meaning from God. John 3:3 is understood to be again because of the context of the scripture around it. if it meant "from above" here then Nicodemus would not have asked if a man can enter into his mothers womb a "second time." a better translation would not be "born again," but "born anew." This would explain the confusion and the reason Jesus had to explain it to Nicodemus.
Thruthem, Study things more completely
ArdimaTalon 2 years ago
Truthem, you don't look at everything do you? John 1:35; 4:3,13,46,54 etc. use the Greek word "palin" which is the Greek conjunction "again." In John 19:23 it is the Greek word "anothen" which means "top or from above" in this case because it is preceded bythe Greek words "ek" (from) and "ho" (the).
ArdimaTalon 2 years ago
"A myth is a religion in which no one any longer believes."
-James Feibleman
thruthem 2 years ago
Yes, it was only to truthem.
jbrack95 2 years ago
Part 2
The interesting thing is the lesson Mrs. Grooves was trying to get across was actually very clear, especially with the Hebrew example of Hesed. So if you will please quit the trivial red herring fallacies then we can carry along with enjoying the video. Yet, I do invite comments because the individuals who watch this channel do (as she said) know enough greek and hebrew to be dangerous.
jbrack95 2 years ago
Was that reply addressed to truthem only?
You posted your comment to the video in general, so I wasn't sure.
MistaPage 2 years ago
Actually the idea is in scripture - 1Peter 1:23 the word is avnagegennhme,noi in greek. Which is essentially talking about the same idea. Peter says one must be born again of imperishable seed which is clearly describing the imperishable quality of the heavenly realm in which the Lord God is seated in Sabbath Rest. Anothen can mean from above as well as from anew (new beginnings).
jbrack95 2 years ago
hey cool, I was there for this on prospective student day!
jwuonog 2 years ago
So sad about a professor compelled to obfuscate!
In English is "from the top" (ano = above, then = from). Christ's tunic was "woven from the top [anothen] in one piece" (John 19:23). John uses the expression only in the sense of "from above" (see also John 3:31, 19:11).
When John wants to say "again," he uses other terms. One such term is palin (John 1:35, 4:3, 13, 46, 54, etc.). John 3:3, therefore, should be rendered "born from above," not "born again."
thruthem 2 years ago
How do you know she was compelled? And who (or what) was compelling her?
And in what respect was she obfuscating? (I actually thought the whole presentation was quite illuminating.)
And are you saying, then, that the idea of "again" was not present at all in John's or Jesus' thinking when they said/wrote those words?
MistaPage 2 years ago
One can not be born agains. This is just one of over 200,000 identified translations/transcription errors in the bible.
Obviously she knows the truth but her position, just like a cleric's, compells deception.
thruthem 2 years ago
I was hoping you would reply to all my questions. I'll ask again the one's that you've not responded to.
How do you know she was compelled? (Restating your position, and saying, "It's obvious", is not a proper reply.)
In what respect was she obfuscating? What did she render obscure or unclear? (Why not quote Prof. Groves at the exact point you disagree.)
Are you saying, then, that the idea of being born again was not *at all* present in the words/thinking of Jesus and John in Jn 3:3&7?
MistaPage 2 years ago
You're throwing a lot of questions at me. Did I not give you enough evidence of what Jesus said, according to the earliest Greek scripture?
There is lots of research available that is not tainted by voices on the payroll of clerical authority. You can do your own research. Please watch my Playlist: Bart Ehrman - Misquoting Jesus.
thruthem 2 years ago
If you don't want a lot of questions thrown at you, then try to avoid making bold and silly claims that you can't - or for some reason won't - back up.
- Groves is "a professor compelled to obfuscate!"
- "John uses the expression *only* in the sense of 'from above'" (Emphasis mine.)
- "When John wants to say 'again,' he uses other terms." (The implication being that he *always" uses other terms.)
(Two of these are basically begging the question.)
If you dare, answer my Q's...
MistaPage 2 years ago
I am not aware of any instances where John says 'born again'. The verses I cited are compelling. I don't spend my days sifting through these pages of this horrible mad-made books of superstition. If you do than we have very little in common, other than the fact that we are both poorly evolved apes.
thruthem 2 years ago
I guess that's a "No" then: you won't answer my questions.
MistaPage 2 years ago