Honest Prayer, Part 1 -- John Shelby Spong

[1472asdf]

He is a living Buddha. A Bodhisatva (defined as: Traditionally, a bodhisattva is anyone who, motivated by great compassion, has generated bodhicitta, which is a spontaneous wish to attain Buddhahood for the benefit of all sentient beings.{Wiki})

We are blessed to have him in our consciousness.

Thank you Rev Spong for all you do.

[secondthes]

@1472asdf If you mean that he seeks to be a savior, then yes, you are correct. He is by no means preaching Christianity. He creates a straw man of Christ and then tears it down for his own glory.

[dambobjob]

He quotes his prayer book, not the bible. If you were to explain his behaviour in real terms: He doesn't pray anymore.

[secondthes]

@dambobjob He doesn't believe the Bible has any power. Why would he read it? It probably burns his eyes. It's like garlic to a vampire.

[emdeezal]

this video is dripping with honest and authentic spirituality. This man yearns to worship God "in spirit and in TRUTH." Brilliant and sincere.

[alleycatalog]

To me, the most honest prayer is, "God, your will be done, even if I wont like it. And bless my enemies AND my loved ones, that they may all have you with them. "

[shieldsff]

While I admire, respect & commend the works of Mr. Sponge in the area of civil rights & social justice, it must be equally acknowledged that his teachings & interpretations of the Gospels& epistles are quite clearly flawed & misleading. Many traditional catholic, reformed, & protestant churches opposed segregation without adopting a theological position which undermines the Gospels (as Mr. Sponge does). See the works of NT Wright, Cone, CS Lewis, A Evans, Cone, C.Stanley, R.Zacarias & others

[auriciangelescu]

The most honest Christian I know, one that I can truly respect!

[1macboo]

I am impressed by his honesty. I have alsways had issues with Spong but I'm feeling that i have been guilty of judging without knowing.

[jesal21]

This guy is phenomenal. I came across him by accident 20 minutes ago. I'm non-theistic in my beliefs but nothing I've heard this guy say goes against anything I believe. In fact, he seems to be one of the few people I've heard who have an honest intellectual capacity from whom you can genuinely learn from.

[walterglanz]

Nice dye job. Careful when doing the deliciously bushy brows you don't get any in your eye.

[VerseInfinitum]

To answer the question phoenixtimes2 asked 1 year ago; What if John Shelby Spong and others like him had shaped Christianity? Along with many several other questions such as; What if toxic theology never existed? and How would it be? The best answer I could give is self and group actualization for all the faithful. I would also consider fulfillment and spiritual authenticity for all the followers. I also suspect a faith based upon reality not fantasy. It would be wonderful!

[springheeledjack8181]

DOUCHE

[99minerkc]

@springheeledjack8181 , Yes, you are quite a bid DOUCHE and I bet it comes naturally to you!

[phoenixtimes2]

I'm not sure what you mean. If you are saying the Spong really has the right message as the fundamental of Christian belief, and the hateful zealots don't stand on truth, I agree with you entirely. But unfortunately Christianity has been dominated by the 'anti' crowd. Distrust 'wordly' things, distrust your mind, hate your body, be skeptical of the pleasures that being alive offers. Remember you are conceived in 'sin' and all that. It has poisoned faith for millions.

[SiriusLordoflisan7]

Phoenix, Spong thinks original. If you disconnect these "Christian" concepts such as the trinity etc which were added into theology at a later date then youll understand what he means.

[irendelle]

Good points phoenix ... you have indeed risen from the ashes of ignorance and learned valuable "truths" throughout history (lol)

[phoenixtimes2]

What if John Shelby Spong and others like him had shaped Christianity? What if there were no southern evangelists with prayer cloths, miracle oils, river water, etc. yelling about hell and scaring, threatening, and thundering in rants? What if toxic theology never existed? What if intellect and kindness dominated religious discourse? What if there were no fundamentalists to screw things up? What if clergy and congregants really and truly used their minds? How wonderful

it would be!

[freezingstill]

phoenixtimes2, I agree with you, but I would take the statement further-I think the real fundamentles of the message, are exactly what Spong is saying, and that those who call themselves fundamentalists, are often misnomered.

[viper2808]

@phoenixtimes2 Didn't John Lennon Make a song dealing with this issue, at least in part? I think it was called IMAGINE!

[phoenixtimes2]

@viper2808 Yes, and it was great! Being in the "now" is what I get from that song.

[d3st88]

@phoenixtimes2

Agreed. I know little of Spong, but he seems a great person. If christians would be anything like him I'd have no problem with xtianity. The guy is atheist approved.

[5sluggo23]

@phoenixtimes2  imagine a new Holy Trinity: Faith, Reason and Compassion.

[phoenixtimes2]

@5sluggo23 Excellent analogy...That's a Trinity that means something in today's world!

[bella50008]

@phoenixtimes2 ...Enjoy the moment. Spong and this way of thinking is nothing new. The spirit of anti-christ has tried to dispell and distort the gospel for centuries. The Word of God will always prevail. The gates of hell cannot withstand it. Long after you and I and Spong are gone from the face of the earth - the truth of the Gospel will be here. No matter how he tries to distort it, he can't change it.Satan is a liar and he speaks thru this man. It is a shame that 29 people choose to listen.

[barmanjoe]

@bella50008 If I can find one example of why you christians are a worry for the world, and how you are nothing but mere unfortunate statistics in the christian brainwashing bullshit, what you said is quite a good one.

[bella50008]

@barmanjoe ...good. Glad I could oblige. Oh yeah, when this world is a distant memory and you are facing eternity just cling to that thought o.k.

[barmanjoe]

@bella50008 Someone calls you an unfortunate statistic, and you say "glad I could oblige"? I thought you christians were meant to be smart in all the things you quote from out of the bible. Try and use your brain for a change, the real god put it there for a reason.

[bella50008]

@barmanjoe ..I don't think my sarcasm matched your insult. If I were to quote from the bible you would not receive that either. You are not seeking truth nor understanding - you want to vent your distaste of all things God.

[barmanjoe]

@bella50008 That's ok, but lets end the insults, so if that's what you felt I apologise. I do actually believe in God, I don't necessarilly believe in the God of organised religion, but I believe that there is a deity and that we're all part of it. I believe that the sum of our reality is a part of God, as God is pretty big. I believe in Jesus Christ, just like John Shelby Spong, I just don't believe in the fear spreading, while it may serve the church, it has yet to serve the world.

[radincco]

@phoenixtimes2 What you are talking about exists already. It's called Unitarian Universalism. It's our best hope for the human race. Check your local directories for a UU fellowship or UU church near you and give them 6 visits before you make up your mind about them. Holler back if you go to a seventh visit and let me know how you are doing it..

[radincco]

@phoenixtimes2 What you are talking about exists already. It's called Unitarian Universalism. It's our best hope for the human race. Check your local directories for a UU fellowship or UU church near you and give them 6 visits before you make up your mind about them. Holler back if you go to a seventh visit and let me know how you are doing it..

[Grandecasla]

@phoenixtimes2 lets put it this way: we would be far better off, without the possibillity of a doubt. he sounds like an unorthodox deist, he uses natural tangible explanations for his harmless theology and I can respect that.

[perfectlyparadoxical]

@phoenixtimes2 Actually, you should say THANK YOU! There wouldn't be a message such as this for you without all of that, & I think John would tell you that as well. Thank you for all of this silly nonsense to have taken place, so that we may all come to our senses & see things for what they actually are, not what they appear to be! It is human nature & it's ignorance of the true nature of spirituality that has brought us to this point (& none too soon, wouldn't you say?)....

[GiDaOne]

This is very moving and demonstrates Spong's sensitivity towards his fellow human beings and the fact that he has thought honestly a lot about these things.

[brainbid]

It's also easy to count and remember the "hits" with prayer and forget, or outright deny the "misses" as a way of getting out of the cognitive dissonance that we experience when we look for "outcomes" from our prayer. Of course, we also rationalize away what would be a cruel answer to a lot of those prayers (i.e. "it was God's will" or "we'll understand someday"). A truly loving and compassionate Devine Being would never do harm to anybody, pre or post mortem!  ,

[brainbid]

Paul was a bit of a nut, and also a misogynist. Repressed sexually it seems, too, from reading the scriptures. Jesus, on the other hand, seemed protective of women. It's very hard to admit that prayer doesn't work, no more so than statistical random chance, at least it was hard for me to realize this truth, but I think people continue with it since it gives them an illusary feeling of personal control over a sometimes uncontrolable world.

[Keruaran]

Spong, a guy who has rejected Christ's sacrifice on the cross for our sins (absolutely essential Christian doctrine) along with other major issues, wants to represent himself to you as a Christian, and then this most disingenuous individual is happy to talk about "honest prayer" ?

Is this a joke ?

[Alturasyouthgroup]

amen! no pun intended.

[john1801rambo]

Who says it is absolutely essential doctrine?

[Keruaran]

The Apostle Paul does...

"For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures" ~ 1st Corinthians 15:3.

[smellincoffee]

And? Paul is no more perfect than you or I.

[Keruaran]

And ? I would say Paul is a greater authority than you or I.

[IAMED2]

He has no authority over my beliefs. I am a Christian, not a Paulian

[Keruaran]

Paul's Epistles are scripture (2nd Peter 3:16) and make up a sizable portion of the New Testament. Are you now going to reject the words of Peter ? Perhaps all of the Apostles ? What will you be left with ? How do you decide what is scripture and what is not ? And how much of the scriptures will you reject on no authority other than that of your own opinion while still fatuously calling yourself a Christian ?

[IAMED2]

Well luckily I have been blessed with a sound mind and heart and don't need a man's ideas about a woman's place contradicting the living message of Jesus Christ...and not only was 2 Peter on the fence on whether it would be included in the bible or not, that passage doesn't even say that Paul's writings are scripture. It says that certain people treat them like they treat scripture. I reject the words of Paul when they conflict with the core teachings of Jesus.

[Antiks72]

Where specifically in that particular passage does it mention Paul or any of his writings?

[nandhi108]

sacred words of love that is the prayer of the heart!

gratitude!