Resurrection of the Body: Has this Belief Changed in Church History? N.T. Wright Responds (HD)

[brendos444]

Dualistic views that dominate much of the so-called "Reformed" teachings on salvation were no where found in the early church. How does a guy like Piper take the resurrection seriously when he believes that salvation is dying and going to heaven? Where does the bible teaching of new creation come into this?

[Strefanasha]

It is good that the early christians believed in bodily resurrection. but strictly speaking it is not relevant, except only to historians, even amateur history buffs like me.

the relevant factor is SCRIPTURE. the church was NEVER normative and NEVER the arbiter of truth

if bodily resurrection is denied now yet "let God be true though every man be a liar"

[Hrugnir]

@Strefanasha Hey, have you read the Scripture 1 Tim 3:15?

"...the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth."

[TheFlipisWILD]

Heaven and hell are where the SPIRITS of men and women go till resurrection day, when the SPIRITS are united with their bodies and they are either live in the New-Heavens-and-new-earth or the Lake of Fire, which is the "second death".

[ReaderDan]

Seventh-day Adventists have held to this belief for a really long time. So did Tyndale.

Scholarship is cool.

[encoresurterre]

Christ was the first resurrected (first fruits) but not the last...

Acts 24:15

Rev. 20:5-6

John 5: 29

Shortly after Christ others were resurrected and visited others. Matt. 27: 53

Then there is Hebrews 6

"not _laying again_ the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of _resurrection of the dead_, and of eternal judgment."

John 11:25 "he that believeth in me, _though he were dead_, yet shall he live"!

[k0smon]

The resurrection of the body is a needless idea. The spiritual body that we have when the physical dies is quite sufficient for the planes of life we will inhabit. Leave the body resurrections to the Egyptians.

[Deathgeese]

@k0smon Whether or not it's needed, it still a part of doctrine and is absolutely Biblical. Just because it's "needless" doesn't mean we should remove it from Christian doctrine.

[encoresurterre]

@k0smon "resurrection of the body is a needless idea"

Oh, you sounded like you knew better than that.

Of course the resurrected body is necessary. That is why there is a resurrection and of differing levels of radiance. See 1 Corinthians 15 for some of the various levels. It explains that the resurrected body is yet different from this mortal body. It will have all the best capabilities of both the physical and spiritual.

That is how Cain (resurrected) will be ruler over Satan (not physical).

[orlando098]

@k0smon

The Egyptians didn't believe in bodily resurrection as far as I know. It's a Jewish idea

[xalexbernardox]

Read 2nd Maccabees 7 to understand what many in 2nd Temple Judaism (specifically pharisaic Judaism) would have understood about resurrection. Also, as for 1st Cor. 15, remember that words only make sense within the historical/linguistic context they are in, you can't just throw out a bunch of lexical definitions and get a solid historical answer. Basic hermeneutics, and food for thought.

[teed60]

What does scripture say,time is near so turn or burn before it comes!

[MichaelWithstand]

The early Christian also don't believe in immediate judgment after death nor in immediate life after death. To the early Christians the dead are no longer aware of themselves, not able to remember God and can no longer register the passage of time.

Resurrection can only be expected in Christ second coming for those chosen and at the end of days for the rest of the people. read the bible.

[highchurchben]

Bishop Wright is fantastic. I have learned so much from his recordings and studies and commentaries than most anybody else. Thank you Rev. Dr. Wright for your work and you devotion to holy scripture.

[MichaelWithstand]

Actually Paul wrote clearly that there will not be physical bodily resurrection. He emphasized that physical bodies will have no part in after life at all

[mooglecharmed]

I absolutely agree. The resurrection Jesus brought was the spiritual resurrection to restore relationship between man and God.

(Romans 8:10, 1John 3:14, John 5:24-30, Daniel 12:1-4, 13, Colossians 3:1, 2:11-12, Romans 6:8-11)

Please read these verses! See for yourself, the bible is consistent in that the body dies and the spirit lives and the life of the spirit compels us to love and do good works while remaining in the flesh.

[k0smon]

@mooglecharmed I agree that the spirit lives on, but yet, people like the JW and SDA will claim the bible teaches soul sleep and they will give you a bunch of verses to back up their theory. Which shows me that the bible is confusing and definitely not 'the word of God'.

[encoresurterre]

@k0smon 'people' confuse the Bible with the Word, which is another name for Jesus Christ, The Word of God. Thinking this way they rely on a book written by men and eshew the message. The Word was with God in the beginning (not the Bible) and taught Adam and Eve the plan of God for man. What happened? Man eventually rejected the knowledge and the plan was lost in the flood but retained by Noah. Then lost, restored, lost, restored, lost... Look for the restored truth.

[StormTrek]

Rev Wright discusses Paul's usage of the word and concept of the resurrection in his book The Resurrection of the Son of God (Christian Origins and the Question of God, Vol. 3)

He shows that no matter what others think of the resurrection, Paul thought and taught that it was physical.

[MichaelWithstand]

Read 1 Corinthians 15:35-57 written by Paul. Paul doesn't teach that the resurrected body is our physical body but it will something else. Something spiritual.

[themange59]

Spiritual doesn't mean not physical. In that passage he's talking natural vs spiritual.

To me the Transfiguration that Jesus went through (mark 9) is a glimpse of what our bodies will be like after the resurrection.

[orlando098]

Actually Paul wrote clearly that there will not be physical bodily resurrection. He emphasized that physical bodies will have no part in after life at all

@MichaelWithstand

That's true, but he was thinking of us having "glorious bodies" like Jesus's one is said to have become - something immortal and powerful, neither a mortal body nor some airy ghost. When he describes the Lord returning and the dead rising to meet him, he doesn't just mean some ghost meeting a lot of other ghosts

[MichaelWithstand]

@orlando098 That's true. It will not just a spectre or a ghostly figure. The new body will indeed be glorious, powerful and beautiful and well built(at least shape wise is muscular for the resurrected men though it will not be of flesh)

[encoresurterre]

@MichaelWithstand You're right about that with just one exception; Luke 24:39 the resurrected body is of flesh and bone (but not blood).

[MichaelWithstand]

@encoresurterre. Ye4s from that verse it looks like body and flesh. but read 1 Corinthians 15:35-57 as written by Paul. Paul doesn't teach that the resurrected body is our physical body but it will something else. Something spiritual. While I was a kid I was given a vision of Christ(not while asleep). Jesus face shines beyond anything if that could be made as reference. I doubt the resurrected people will be as glorified or as bright but it would be similar.

[encoresurterre]

@MichaelWithstand

Luke 24:39 and 1 Cor 15 are not exclusive. Paul's description is from his point of view and Jesus' is most telling.

Still 1c15:37-39 Paul is saying we are resurrected with the same body (at least in type and appearance), we don't become cats, fish or trees. He then indicates the difference in glory or radience of the different levels of resurrection (the reward spoken of by Christ) is as significant as the difference between trees, dogs and humans, metaphorically.

[MichaelWithstand]

@encoresurterre indeed people would retain their form. Even God is supposed to be man in shape since God(Christ) does have a face though one which couldn't be seen because it's radiating with the brightest light ever.

Thank you for not ridiculing me for having written something that many would deem impossible or a lie. May God be graceful to you!

[encoresurterre]

@MichaelWithstand

You are quite right and far ahead of most mortals in your understanding. I applaud you for 'seeking' as few do.

That light is the essence of intelligence and God is the source because it all flows to Him. It is also a different kind of light than that of a fire. Think of the burning bush, it didn't burn because it wasn't fire but the glory of God.

The mortal body has an important purpose. Spiritually physical bodies are translucent and highly conducive to that light.

[MichaelWithstand]

@encoresurterre Also I have reasons to believe the resurrected bodies are very well built with muscular emphasis for the man chest and broad shoulder. I don;'t know about the women I haven't actually seen a resurrected women. I've seen a resurrected man though. He had body whose shape is perfect!(very very well built chest and broad shoulder, his face was covered by something very dark that made his unseen) Try reading The torn veil the story of sister Gulshan Esther. She saw the same person too

[encoresurterre]

@MichaelWithstand

One NDE said there are no fat people in the spirit world. Yes, the spirit has a 'perfect' form. It may not seem so immediately after death but eventually all bodies return to their perfect state.

[encoresurterre]

@MichaelWithstand

I'd like to know more about your experience. How do you know the person was resurrected and what was the circumstance of his visit?

[orlando098]

@MichaelWithstand

How come you've seen a resurrected man? I thought according to Christian belief there were no resurrected men yet apart from Jesus?

[MichaelWithstand]

@orlando098 Yeah you're right according to the bible the earliest resurrection will be at Christ second coming. I did see a person who was man but now alive. I'm not quite sure how that would be possible but I've found I'm not the only person who has seen this once man but not anymore. He's a disciple of Christ. He lives and now with perfect body though the face was shrouded in the darkest matter. There's something about divine beings that they wouldn't want to reveal their faces. Cheers.

[MichaelWithstand]

@orlando098 I know it sounds weird but try to search for this book. The torn veil, by sister Gulshan Esther. She saw the same person.

I think they only shroud their face from us mortal. They could roam this world, enter places locked tight. There's nothing impossible for God. Cheers.

[encoresurterre]

@orlando098 Ahem; Luke 24:39 the resurrected body is of flesh and bone. It differs by using a 'spiritual' material rather than a lower 'mortal' material.

[orlando098]

@encoresurterre

Where did I say it wasn't? However it must have pretty curious properties all the same, seeing as Jesus's could appear and disappear, go through locked doors, fly into the air etc.

[encoresurterre]

@orlando098

Whoops, it was your quote from someone else.

Yes, apparently there are two kinds of spiritual material. One that makes up the spirit and one that makes up the final spiritually physical body. The final body retains all the best capabilities of both spirit and mortal body and can feel or be felt by a mortal body where as a spirit does not have sufficient substance. If you try to take hold of a spirit you get nothing but a resurrected being would feel substantial like your own.

[TheSocraticApproach]

Making sense is one thing, but being right is something entirely different all together.

[MusterionProductions]

this is fantastic!!!

[Magnulus76]

What is he saying? Resurrection is metaphorical, or literal? I think it is metaphorical.

[shaver215]

He is saying it is literal. where do you get the belief that it is only metaphorical?

[azaadalfaaz]

Who is your GOD? jesus ,father or Ghost? 3 gods = 1 god . let for sake of argument your lord and god is jesus. Question is Can GOD DIE? if your God can Die Then He is NOT A GOD AT ALL. Resurection Of WHOM ?of GOD? Resurection Question is Absurd for GOD cause GOD can NEVER DIE. but Yet your god dies for your sin.

Say GOD is ONE, GOD is eternal(self sufficient who never dies) ,GOD have no mother and father, GOD do not Begget, and GOD is not Begotton .This is TRUE ONE GOD of all Human ,havens

[Magnulus76]

When Paul is talking about a resurrected body, he uses the word "spiritual", in contrast to what is natural. Elsewhere this word is used to suggest something that cannot be understood except by mystical means. So I'd hate to state exactly what the resurrection of the dead will involve. The Anglican Communion has tended to de-emphasize an overly literal reading of the resurrection of the dead and the apocalypse, There is latitude in belief, though.

[drsuessre14]

Thanks a lot for posting this!

[darklink0112]

GO TOM WRIGHT!!!