Wheel slip can be caused by many things. Worn wheels, slippery rail, etc. It is not usually the fault of the locomotives manufacturer. Older engines are more likley to slip because they don't usually have the modern wheel slip controls of the newer engines.
The Alcos in this video are from the Cartier in Quebec, and had been upgraded to GE Dash8 or 9 electrical by the Cartier.
How come they didn't have the bell going when they passed the yard shack or station.Up in Nebraska you would got to use 30days of your hail on that. LOL
Those Alcos were pathetic! They were slipping uncontrollably. The middle axle on Alco six axle units are not powered so its basically like having a very large and heavy 4 axle locomotive. EMDs are superior!
It's not that. It was those paticular locomotives. It's not like EMDs are the single most amazing Locomotive out there. But they are also nice units too.
Did anyone notice the MU cables between the Alcos and EMDs were not connected. I was wondering if they were operating them separately as the "newer" emds have different slip control electronics than the alcos.....
I talk to an engineer and asked that same question, he said, "It shakes a little and that you can feel the loss of traction in your seat." That's what he said.
I was with my dad in Cajon pass, we were about a half mile away from Summit and it was just after the UP SP merger. An SP train was creepin' up the hill so slow, you couldn't see the train moving. My dad got on the radio and said, "I think I can I think I can..." The engineer of the train gets on the radio and says,"We KNOW we can." Sure as hell, he made it to summit...an hour later.
The thing i love about this video is that you get the EMD sound at the beginning then the Chug of the Alco's at the end so it's the best of both worlds. I love em all!
This has to be the best clip on here!!! Is the power reduced automatically when the wheels slip or does the engineer do it manually with the throttle?
On these the power is automaticly reduced when they slip. On older units thats a ball ache as power is cut to all 6 motors on the unit. On newer loco's, only the wheels that are slipping, the power is cut. I would guess this engineer is throttling back himself (on the front 2)in an effort to keep the traction amps out the red zone abit so keeping the traction motors from going up in smoke!
@formidable38 On an ALCo, they didn't have much of a wheel slip control system. The EMD in the train has a -2 electronic controller, which reduces power.
Yeah I got ya, hence alot more skill from the engineer to get that power to the rail. We got old loco's like that here, sorts out the men from the boys and the "boil in the bag new drivers"
There are 2 types of train engineer/driver. The first comes up through the grades and emasses years of skill and experiance in handling a train. The second type is the guy plucked off the street, rushed through an intense course for a couple of years and thrown in the seat, abit like those microwave meals you buy, quick, crude and a rush job.
@CarNutandTrainNut2 It takes a man (or woman) of high skill level to beable to run something like an old Alco or GE, hell, even a first generation EMD without a notched controller and 6SL brakes is a pain in the ass.
Why do people preffer Alco's over EMD? Is it like a ford vs. chevy thing or something? I always thought EMD's were superior units. I admit I like the nostalga factor and even th enoise of Alcos but i never thought much of them.
The Alcos were great pullers and really good switchers as they had a nearly immediate throttle response over most other makes of locomotive. The EMDs started pushing the way with higher HP units and Alco was lagging a bit in keeping up. Alco had a bad go of it with the 244 engine reliability, then came back with the 251 to fix the problems. The 251 was a great prime mover, but the damage to the Alco image was done and a lot of roads wouldn't go back to Alco and stuck with EMD.
It's just that he older the locomotive is, the more interesting it is. Alcos are a favorite among railfanners, Simply for their looks, they're rareity nowadays, and simply their age. You really have to be around alot of them to not think much of them.
@PixelatedTV I guess... Ive seen them (alcos) come thru my town for a while on the NYS&W, I also see them in Scranton PA. I suppose its cool to see something different. I guess I can relate because I used to see the NJ transit U34CH's all the time. When providing HEP they would idle pretty high. They were noisy dirty engines which I hated. Now that they are gone I kind of miss watching the flames chug out of their stacks.
Those Alco's sound like more of a hinderance than a benefit here. They seem to be haviing real trouble building any power where as the EMD's look to be doing all the work. Suprising!
The last two unit's in the consist are ex CARTIER M630's from QUEBEC (now SUZY-Q's) So they should have a lot of lugging power, but you got of love wet rail!
They shoulda just cut the EMD's off and left em, and let the Alcos pull it. All the dead wieght on the front was draggin em down. I alwasy thought it was funny that we need 2 GP-9's to switch what one RS-36 or 11 used to do alone
@silicon212 Not true, had the MLW's got traction, they would pull it over. The EMD only helped gain traction because of the more modern wheel slip control.
The alcos were a really great switcher, great throttle response, yes? The EMD 567 with the D37 traction motor was weak (topped out at 1750 hp). But the 645 series with D77 or 87 traction motors has more than proved it's worth over the past 40+ yrs. BUT with over 4000 GP9s made and a hell of a lot of them still out there (over 50 yrs old!), they can't be all that bad!
Warren clagfest is just taking a little time off from videoing himself beating up other train enthusiasts to give us the benefit of what he knows bugger-all about.
I think that Old cartier unit (#3664) is currently running on the WNY&P shortline RR. I could be wrong, and I am sure there are one or two of the Yellow susquehannas in their possession too.
when in doubt add more power! it rarely ever fails.
WHRU2011 2 months ago
WOW! What a sound! God bless.
TrainTrackTrav 5 months ago
Wheel slip can be caused by many things. Worn wheels, slippery rail, etc. It is not usually the fault of the locomotives manufacturer. Older engines are more likley to slip because they don't usually have the modern wheel slip controls of the newer engines.
The Alcos in this video are from the Cartier in Quebec, and had been upgraded to GE Dash8 or 9 electrical by the Cartier.
criind 9 months ago
wow i remember being here for this haha
21stCenturyLtd 10 months ago
How come they didn't have the bell going when they passed the yard shack or station.Up in Nebraska you would got to use 30days of your hail on that. LOL
blueticecho 11 months ago
Bravo !!
MrSd40jk 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Looks to me like the Alcos are the ones having the problem holding the rail. They shouldn't be slipping that much in the trailing position.
lima709 1 year ago
Looks to me like the Alcos are the ones having the problem holding the rail. They shouldn't be slipping that much in the trailing position.
lima709 1 year ago
You could really see and hear the last Alco slipping the first wheel at 6:45. I like the engineers reaction at 5:38! All around a good video!
stlgevo51 1 year ago
Those Alcos were pathetic! They were slipping uncontrollably. The middle axle on Alco six axle units are not powered so its basically like having a very large and heavy 4 axle locomotive. EMDs are superior!
8747csx 1 year ago
@8747csx
It's not that. It was those paticular locomotives. It's not like EMDs are the single most amazing Locomotive out there. But they are also nice units too.
PixelatedTV 1 year ago
was that still a V20 in that SD45?
Seems like the GE units couldn't keep it on the ground...
kleetus92 1 year ago
was that still a V20 in that SD45?
kleetus92 1 year ago
has 3660 & 77 ever been reparied? I read they were freeze damageed in Locomotive 2008
metraF40PH163 1 year ago
they should have put another sd45 up front
S3KSiiMiX3DMAMii205 1 year ago
the good old days....overweight and underpowered train.
what that engineer norm m?
2005GLI 1 year ago
Did anyone notice the MU cables between the Alcos and EMDs were not connected. I was wondering if they were operating them separately as the "newer" emds have different slip control electronics than the alcos.....
BudmanPackfan 2 years ago
That doesn't look like much of an upgrade there.
With 13,800 HP available it doesn't make sense they would have this much trouble pulling it.
Were all 4 units on line?
How long and how heavy is the train?
BerilacBulge 2 years ago
At 6:50 He lost an engine!!!!!
MilwaukeeSDman 2 years ago
Comment removed
BudmanPackfan 2 years ago
@MilwaukeeSDman... The Alcos throttled down due to too much wheel slip.
BudmanPackfan 2 years ago
Your patience holding the camera, is that of a saint. Welldone lol :)
produKtNZ 2 years ago 9
wow, those loco made there money that day. jeez
tda7294a 2 years ago
Comment removed
choirboyfromhell1 2 years ago
Sounds like they brought along the Alcos for the wheelslips.
choirboyfromhell1 2 years ago
whats it like in the cab when ther is a wheeel slip?
bnsftim 2 years ago
I talk to an engineer and asked that same question, he said, "It shakes a little and that you can feel the loss of traction in your seat." That's what he said.
TrainTrackTrav 2 years ago
I was with my dad in Cajon pass, we were about a half mile away from Summit and it was just after the UP SP merger. An SP train was creepin' up the hill so slow, you couldn't see the train moving. My dad got on the radio and said, "I think I can I think I can..." The engineer of the train gets on the radio and says,"We KNOW we can." Sure as hell, he made it to summit...an hour later.
TrainTrackTrav 2 years ago
WOW At least he made it!!!!!!!!
MilwaukeeSDman 2 years ago
The thing i love about this video is that you get the EMD sound at the beginning then the Chug of the Alco's at the end so it's the best of both worlds. I love em all!
ZetanCrisp 2 years ago 2
This has to be the best clip on here!!! Is the power reduced automatically when the wheels slip or does the engineer do it manually with the throttle?
ZetanCrisp 2 years ago
On these the power is automaticly reduced when they slip. On older units thats a ball ache as power is cut to all 6 motors on the unit. On newer loco's, only the wheels that are slipping, the power is cut. I would guess this engineer is throttling back himself (on the front 2)in an effort to keep the traction amps out the red zone abit so keeping the traction motors from going up in smoke!
formidable38 2 years ago
@formidable38 On an ALCo, they didn't have much of a wheel slip control system. The EMD in the train has a -2 electronic controller, which reduces power.
BNSF5608 2 years ago
Yeah I got ya, hence alot more skill from the engineer to get that power to the rail. We got old loco's like that here, sorts out the men from the boys and the "boil in the bag new drivers"
formidable38 2 years ago
Whats "boil in the bag" mean?
CarNutandTrainNut2 2 years ago
There are 2 types of train engineer/driver. The first comes up through the grades and emasses years of skill and experiance in handling a train. The second type is the guy plucked off the street, rushed through an intense course for a couple of years and thrown in the seat, abit like those microwave meals you buy, quick, crude and a rush job.
formidable38 2 years ago
Thanks for the clarification mate.
CarNutandTrainNut2 2 years ago
@CarNutandTrainNut2 It takes a man (or woman) of high skill level to beable to run something like an old Alco or GE, hell, even a first generation EMD without a notched controller and 6SL brakes is a pain in the ass.
BNSF5608 2 years ago
automatic
NSguy07 2 years ago
Why do people preffer Alco's over EMD? Is it like a ford vs. chevy thing or something? I always thought EMD's were superior units. I admit I like the nostalga factor and even th enoise of Alcos but i never thought much of them.
LS6Z28 2 years ago 6
The Alcos were great pullers and really good switchers as they had a nearly immediate throttle response over most other makes of locomotive. The EMDs started pushing the way with higher HP units and Alco was lagging a bit in keeping up. Alco had a bad go of it with the 244 engine reliability, then came back with the 251 to fix the problems. The 251 was a great prime mover, but the damage to the Alco image was done and a lot of roads wouldn't go back to Alco and stuck with EMD.
BudmanPackfan 2 years ago
@LS6Z28
It's just that he older the locomotive is, the more interesting it is. Alcos are a favorite among railfanners, Simply for their looks, they're rareity nowadays, and simply their age. You really have to be around alot of them to not think much of them.
PixelatedTV 1 year ago
@PixelatedTV I guess... Ive seen them (alcos) come thru my town for a while on the NYS&W, I also see them in Scranton PA. I suppose its cool to see something different. I guess I can relate because I used to see the NJ transit U34CH's all the time. When providing HEP they would idle pretty high. They were noisy dirty engines which I hated. Now that they are gone I kind of miss watching the flames chug out of their stacks.
LS6Z28 1 year ago
@LS6Z28 you poor deprived person...I feel sorry for you for not notiving Alcos
Vermont204 1 year ago
i always wondered why we were going through traction motors like crazy they kept blaming us mechanics at the bingahmton shop for poor maintanence
mxTRX450R 2 years ago
You work at binghamton SHOPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Whats it like!!!! Do you stil have ALCO/MLWs
MilwaukeeSDman 2 years ago
Awesome footage ...
Why not not just split the train and bring each 1/2 up the grade?
WestCoastRails 2 years ago
the rails looked a bit slippery. they could have been spining bad and out of sand causeing the stalls
Guilford88panam 3 years ago
Running these EMD's at full power at such slow speeds, for such a long time, these traction motors must be frieing hot.
The ALCO's already slip on wat seems notch 2 or 3, is this because they have poorer adhesion or more low end torque than the EMD's?
But they sound all great!
dieselmupke 3 years ago
Those Alco's sound like more of a hinderance than a benefit here. They seem to be haviing real trouble building any power where as the EMD's look to be doing all the work. Suprising!
What a great video.
formidable38 3 years ago 2
The last two unit's in the consist are ex CARTIER M630's from QUEBEC (now SUZY-Q's) So they should have a lot of lugging power, but you got of love wet rail!
cparl 3 years ago
This looks like it was very stressful to get the train moving. That engineer did a good job with what he had to work with
EMDFAN1988 3 years ago
They shoulda just cut the EMD's off and left em, and let the Alcos pull it. All the dead wieght on the front was draggin em down. I alwasy thought it was funny that we need 2 GP-9's to switch what one RS-36 or 11 used to do alone
stubnosebrock 3 years ago
heck without those EMDs, those MLWs would have simply burned their wheels away stationary. You could see them slipping.
silicon212 2 years ago
Alcos are usually good pullers from what I've heard from Delaware Lackawanna crews. Maybe they were just out of sand or something.
lennyos 2 years ago
why not just put a GP-38 when there are SU-99's around?
Bingbong479 2 years ago
@silicon212 Not true, had the MLW's got traction, they would pull it over. The EMD only helped gain traction because of the more modern wheel slip control.
BNSF5608 2 years ago
The alcos were a really great switcher, great throttle response, yes? The EMD 567 with the D37 traction motor was weak (topped out at 1750 hp). But the 645 series with D77 or 87 traction motors has more than proved it's worth over the past 40+ yrs. BUT with over 4000 GP9s made and a hell of a lot of them still out there (over 50 yrs old!), they can't be all that bad!
BudmanPackfan 2 years ago
@stubnosebrock notice how the alcos are the ones slipping their wheels
Seaboard1321 9 months ago
look at the last axle on the last loco as it passes!
KevinCulla9 3 years ago
Thanks for pointing that out! I would have never caught that. You can actually see it start to slip and then catch again,
tuner562 2 years ago
Fantastic footage! I particularly like the "winding up" gesture from the Engineer!
Somebody should've placed some pieces of ballast on the rail head. Great for getting a slipping loco on the move.
clagfest 3 years ago
Warren clagfest is just taking a little time off from videoing himself beating up other train enthusiasts to give us the benefit of what he knows bugger-all about.
weirdoclagfest 3 years ago
Stalling is what they get for buying alcos.Waste of money!
geep20 3 years ago 4
The engr did a pretty good job trying to keep the wheels from breaking loose... seems to be in the video that it started raining...
bpbpcoc 3 years ago
Full throttle and still barely moving, wow.
makkietoch 3 years ago
I think that Old cartier unit (#3664) is currently running on the WNY&P shortline RR. I could be wrong, and I am sure there are one or two of the Yellow susquehannas in their possession too.
kf7strng 3 years ago
ahhhh, NYSW's old engines stalling across park place at rush hour, and pissing off hundreds of people, isn't the NYSW great?
NJT4111 3 years ago 3
how big of a train did he have
RANDY2045 3 years ago
Dont remember. But they were running the 99's pretty big back then.
nysw252 3 years ago