Krauthammer about Camp David 2000!

[meshzzizk]

Does anyone know where I can find the rest of this debate?

[ELVISCHALLENGE]

Muslims don't need land. They have to give land they acquired illegally - none of the Arab states are historical and never existed 120 years ago. Egypt must be a 2-state, one for the original, native Copts. There has already been a 2-state in Palestine. Hello?

[qwertypoiu4321]

Oslo was Israel rushing to stop any form of actual peace demanded by the First Intifada. After Oslo, Israel built hundreds of thousands of illegal settlements in occupied Palestinian territory. At Camp David/Taba the Palestinians made exactly 100% of the concessions under international law, and Israel made exactly 0%. And then Israel ended the Taba talks when they were 6 weeks away from having peace.

Zionists have caused every conflict in Palestine they have ever had.

[qwertypoiu4321]

Every single 'peace' process Israel has been involved in since 1949 has been to misdirect and steal land, or forced on them through war.

[JohnnyRock2000]

This was the crummy deal. Palestine could form a government, BUT the settlements would stay, Palestine would stay broken up and joined by roads with checkpoints, Israel controlled the borders, the airspace and the water. Clinton blamed Arafat, but Jimmy Carter says that it was an offer that had Arafat agreed, would have been assassinated. The fighting began not because of Camp David in July, but because Sharon entered Jerusalem sacred mosque area with troops in Sept.

[lnba]

@JohnnyRock2000 This is simply not true. Please read Clinton's book, as well as Dennis Ross' book about what was proposed in Camp David 2000, and later in Taba. Almost every settlement would have been dismantled. The IDF would have leaved the Palestinian territory. Moreover, both Arafat AND Abu Mazzen agreed, in retrospect, that it was a mistake. After Clinton left office, Arafat called him and said he agree to the offer. It was too late. As for Sharon's visit: watch?v=Qb5fIP-MfAc It was planned

[MrElasticplastic]

97% of the territories? That is a blatant lie. Of everyone else I've heard, including some of the staunchest supporters of the plan, I've never heard anyone say that it was 97%. The highest I had heard was 91% until this windbag opened his mouth. I wish he would be evicted from his house and forced to live in a tent.

[Redcarpet01]

Why wasn't there inclusion of Tariq's response regarding something a Clinton advisor wrote in a US paper about the 2000 meetings?

[rosaaddick]

lol what? A "clueless guy"?!! You have no idea who Tariq Ali is do you? Because if you had any idea you could NEVER call him "clueless"! I would suggest it is you who is clueless.

[cane1sniper]

Hammer, Crushed him with facts and History...Ali didn;t even know who was in office at the time of this event!

[fpm229]

Chicken Hawk: someone who avoids going to war or fighting for his country in his own lifetime, but still advocates that a war is necessary.

[ObamaJugendFuhrer]

@fpm229 - Franklin Delano Roosevelt was also a 'chickenhawk'. The 'chickenhawk' tag is a disingenuous and intellectually dishonest liberal term used far too often against anyone happening to be in support of a war the liberal opposes. You do understand intellectual dishonesty, don't you? That is what you do when you claim to be an independent (and not a Democrat) while lashing out at conservatives with every left-wing, whack job cliche in the liberal play book.

[fpm229]

Kraut is an ignorant pompous asshole.

[carlinj832000]

oh the only ignorant person i see here is you!

[fpm229]

Thanks. This pompous, chicken hawk, Holier than Thou asshole represents all thats wrong with the todays GOP. Thanks to sleazy whackos like him, The Republican Party is now down to 23% of all registered voters. Thanks again.

[carlinj832000]

well gee otherwise he wouldnt be a pulter prize winner, so whats your excuse?

[carlinj832000]

oh really? wow because to you everybody should follow your agenda!

[fpm229]

I have no agenda. Im an open-minded Independent voter. I study both sides of the issues. Not easily swayed by far right-wing chicken-hawk wackos like Kraut. Life is too short. I cant waste my time with these nut jobs that get paid big bucks to spread hate for my president. This mutt is paid very well for his negativism. This know-it-all, close-mined nut case contributed to the Republicans downfall.

[carlinj832000]

well gee the democrats are not so doing well themselves!

[fpm229]

I'm not a Democrat. I'm an Independent. Krauthammer is just another sleazy right wing Chicken-Hawk. Hes incapable of rational, objective thought. Maybe the Botox went to his brain?

[carlinj832000]

yeah yeah!

[dutchlansky101]

If you read him, Tariq quite obviously isn't ill- informed. I only wish he'd given a more substantial response to Krauthammer's dishonest rhetoric.

[Berdie]

Can somebody put a muzzle on that disgusting, completely misinformed, moron...RussianboyMoscow? What else does this idiot have to say before he says enough to be silenced and banned from posting comments on this page?

[7beers]

The Irgun were a minority and their acts were deplored by the majority of the Israeli leadership, and the Irgun was ultimately forcibly dismantled. Contrast that with Arab terrorists who are celebrated in schools and elsewhere.

[aitraining]

Lol. It's funny how riled up people get -especially when they can't spell.

[macaskill87]

Yeh nice vid, showing Krauthammer giving an answer that was 90% bullshit and not show it get refuted. The offer at Camp David was actually going to split the west bank up into 3 bantustans all surrounded by Israeli military outposts and settlements. All three bantustas being seperated from East Jeruselem.

Tariq Ali is a lot more famous in the UK, his home.

[shitzu1943]

Krauthammer is the one being silly. Arafat was offered a bantustan just like Apartheid South Africa.

[DrMKleber]

LOL Just read Clinton's book. No need to be ignorant.

[shitzu1943]

LOL! I have and have read other books and they all dispute Clinton and Barak's accusations of Arafat.

[norcal240]

Why would anyone believe a word that comes out of Bill Clinton's mouth?

[yoavYbinoon]

well, horny as he may be, he was president...

[aitraining]

Charles Krauthammer is the best and this other guy is a typical radical muslim sympothizer. Not a fair fight - Charles has about a 75-100 point IQ advantage here. Next.

[sourcerer24]

Actually, Tariq Ali is an atheist, and he's never shy of expressing that. Secondly, its sympathizer. Thirdly, check the map on which the settlement was negotiated. You will find that Tariq was right. The West Bank was to be divided into 3 circles, unconnected, thus creating 3 prisons. And while you're at it, check the chronological maps of Palestine (what is now mostly Israel) to see how much land has gone from one side to the other in 60 years. But i know you wont, because youre an imbecile.

[aitraining]

I love spell check nazis on youtube. It's called typing fast. Fuck the Palestinians. Every other arab and middle east country has never given a shit about them execpt use them as political propaganda pawns. If that issue is ever solved, the militants would have nothing to recruit 7 year olds with. They wouldn't know what to do with a country like Israel if they owned it. The world would be feeding and supporting them like they were Ethiopia. They couldn't support themselves.

[durhamdf]

@sourcerer24 lol what "Palestine" there was no "Palestine prior to 47'. 83% of Jordanians are "Palestinian" meaning genetically the same as those living in the West bank. YOur selective history is laughable, The division of the mandate in 47' gave 10% of the entire mandate to the Jews and 90% of the mandate to the Palestinians and Arabs. This is despite the fact that Jews composed roughly 12% of what became the mandate in 1890. And Jews all were forced from their homes in the new Arab states

[durhamdf]

@sourcerer24 And you are either flat out lieing or completely missinformed when it comes to the 2000 deal. In 2000 Israel offered to dismantle 63 settlements inside of the west bank and return 91% of the land (94% excluding greater jerusalem) the only settlements that would remain (the remaining 9% of the land) were right on the border with Israel along the green line. THere was no division except with Gaza, that is a complete fabrication. And Palestine flat out refused and waged war on Israel!

[elamal2007]

Krauthammer, I know you want hug and kiss Sen. Larry Craig on Fox News today(08/30/07), but you also can't hide it.

[monk54321]

What was the CBC thinking? They paired Krauthammer up with a featherweight.

[Sparisi1122]

Yeah. Charles destroyed him.

[StinkingHombre]

Charlie hammers liberals.

[Bellator656]

Krauthammer is repeating the same old bullshit.

[Sparisi1122]

Wow, that is a really good one by Charles. This guy rocks!

[lnba]

Fact 4: Nabil Amr, PA minister in 2000: "Didn't we dance to the failure of Camp David? Didn't we deface pictures of President Bill Clinton who courageously put on the table the proposal for a Palestinian State with minor modifications? Aren't we doing just that, dancing in the face of a grand failure? Yes. But were we honest in what we did? No. We were not, because today, after two years of bloodshed, we call for exactly what we refused, only after we became sure it was impossible to achieve!"

[lnba]

Fact 3: Arafat himself accepted the Camp David offer two years later, when both Clinton and Barak were our of power.

[lnba]

Fact 2: Prince Bandar of Saudi Arabia saw Arafat's refusal as a "CRIME" against the Palestinian people: "Bandar believed that Arafat's failure to accept the deal in January of 2001 was a tragic mistake—a crime, really." The New Yorker.

[lnba]

Fact 1: Many Palestinian leaders (including Abu Mazen) blamed Arafat for not accepting Clinton's offer.

[KaiXi333]

Krauthammer can't deal with facts. Facts annoy him. "Oh this is really quite silly."

The only people talking about "erradication" of Jews is the Jews themselves, which leads me to believe that they are OBSESSED with the subject.

[aaronnejad1]

You are wrong.. the people speaking about erradication of Jews are Muslim fundamentals. Check out the preachings that the Imams give (and there is plenty of it Im sure you will have no problem finding them)

[aaronnejad1]

The only reason he said the "silly" comment was because of the point that his opponent made. He was speaking about Sharon, the bantustans and how the negotiations were dropped. Sharon was never in the government that is why he was "silly". How could he blame Sharon when Barak was in power

[MustafaHamsho]

Is Krauthammer an American or an Israeli? Who is he to abide by any agreement?

[therecordkeeper]

Its INCREDIBLE, Krauthammer isn't even addressing the facts, Barrak's offer would keep the majority of the Israeli ILLEGAL settlements in the West Bank, with Israeli military control over the roads connecting them. Calling it a bantoustatn is not far from what it would be in case Arafat had accepted.

[o0xst]

Krauthammer has no idea what he is talking about, nor has he ever.

[aaronnejad1]

Please explain why you say that instead of sending Ad hominem attacks.

[miscreant2001]

krauthammer is a warmonger. try and call that an ad hominem attack when all the guy ever talks about is recalcitrant nations the u.s. and israeli militaries need to teach a lesson.

[7beers]

You are a warmonger. Your mother is a warmonger. Your dentist's brother-in-law's softball coach is a warmonger. See how easy it is to throw meaningless labels at people, based on nothing?

[danroberto]

LOL So you haven't seen the show, eh? You give Ali too much credit. After he was talking about Sharon (and ignored Clinton's offer in 2000-- how convenient), his answer attempt was a mumble about "versions" for what happened in Camp David - while every person who read Clinton's books, listened to what the Saudis said about Camp David 2000; to what PALESTINIAN ministers said about Camp David 2000; who listens to ARAFAT himself a year later.. knows well what happened in Camp David 2000

[wog7]

Of course the clip abruptly ends before Tariq Ali can proceed to wipe the floor with Krauthammer's arguments.

[ToddonCapeCod]

So, what did he say, Wog? Or are you just projecting your own ignorant, idiotic arguments onto Mr. Ali? History has shown that Palestine had ZERO interest in anything less than 100% of the land.

As its been said, if the Palestinians lay down their weapons there will be peace; if Israel lays down their weapons, there will be no more Israel.

[wog7]

The point is that the clip immediately cuts off before Ali can get anything in to make it seem as if Krauthammer got the last word, or to essentially GIVE Krauthammer the last word.

[ToddonCapeCod]

No, the point is, your original post said Tariq was about to mop the floor with Krauthammer; you don't even know what YOU said, let alone what Tariq Ali said or was about to say!!!!

[wog7]

Perhaps I was being a bit brash. What I should have said was: Odd that this Youtuber decided to cut the clip before Ali could respond. He would have likely cleaned Krauthammer's figurative clock.

[programmusic]

owned

[abroberts]

He speaks the truth.

[danroberto]

Tariq Ali is willfully ignorant when it comes to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict

[wog7]

"Willfully ignorant" is the exact phrasing used by Krauthammer in the video to describe Ali. Are you not creative enough to come up with your own ad hominem?

[danroberto]

Krauthammer's phrasing is so accurate that it's perfect! "Willfully ignorant" is the corecct term to describe Ali.

[wog7]

Thanks for the hearty laugh.

If you can't do your own thinking let the Krauthammers of the world do it for you.

[mcabromb]

This is not a clueless guy. This is Tariq Ali and from the looks of things he is informing Charles Krauthammer. This all sounds familiar.

[miscreant2001]

I was wondering when someone would realize that the 'anonymous voice of the clueless left' was tariq ali. it's disturbing how krauthammer has this cult following when all his responses to ali's cogent arguments were evasive.

[aaronnejad1]

What are you talking about "cult following" ?

and Tariq's cogent arguement. Tariq was totally talking garbage and he got slammed because of it. He mentioned Sharon when Sharon wasn't even in power then.

Why doesnt Tariq talk about Arafat ripping his own country off billions of dollars

[BrinsonMHarris]

Krauthammer has his facts straight and calls BS on this clown's rewriting of history and attempt to straw man. Reciting facts and pointing out that Barak, not Sharon, was PM in 2000 is HARDLY "Zionist propaganda," and shows how little of his writing you've read, Mustafa.

[ToddonCapeCod]

Way to go, Mustafa.

Make ad hominem attacks, espcially on people in wheelchairs.

That'll really rally people to your side!

[wog7]

Unfortunately, you can't rally educated people AT ALL, because you support a violent and aggressive colonial state.

And who says disabled people can't be as vile as Krauthammer. Mustafa wasn't making light of his physical status.

[MustafaHamsho]

Krauthammer is the most annoying man on TV. I know he has physical problems but he looks like he has a stick up his ass. Also, every single friggin article he writes is Zionist propaganda. Why doesn't he just move to Israel?

[Gerkinstock]

Maybe he can move to Israel the day Noam Chomsky joins Hezbollah in trying to bring Taliban-style Islamo-fascism to the entire Middle East. Chomsky is closer to being a full-fledged member of Hezbollah than Krauthammer is to being an Israeli.

[wog7]

What a mind-blowing stretch. How do you connect the Taliban to Hezbollah to Chomsky?

Answer: By making it up as you go along.

If you don't know the facts, make them up.

[miscreant2001]

you forgot to mention chomsky's support of the nazis and his ties to satanism.

[aaronnejad1]

Chomsky does not support Nazi's he is actually very anti Nazi. He supports freedom of press and freedom of speech. The two are very different.

[Gerkinstock]

Haha.

[Gerkinstock]

Nazism was a combination of Socialism and Nationalism. Chomsky supports for the former but not the latter. He is also a supporter of Hezbollah ("Party of God"), a terrorist organization that states as its goals the desire to destroy Israel and implement a Taliban-style fundamentalist Islamic government in Lebanon. So, though he's not a Nazi, he is a nutcase.

[7beers]

Krauthammer is a brilliant man. I read every one of his articles. I hope that he will inspire thousands more like himself.

[miscreant2001]

Krauthammer is a brilliant propagandist: good prose style dressing up faulty arguments.

[aaronnejad1]

Miscreant sais:- Krauthammer is a brilliant propagandist: good prose style dressing up faulty arguments.

Dude you need to criticise the specific context of the video clip. Israel offered 97% of the westbank and there was no Sharon there. This is why he called his comment silly and willfully ignorant. By you saing that he is a warmonger you are escaping the specific point.

[danroberto]

and BTW, every person who were in Camp David from the US delegation say that it was more than 95%.

[danroberto]

80-98% it doesn't matter because Arafat didn't even give a counter offer.

The fact remains: a year later Arafat agreed to the offer, when it was too late.

[souldogs]

Krauthammer says 97%. Other proponents say 98%, stil others say 90%. Many opponents say 80%, Doesn't matter, as WATER rights discussion was deferred to later stages of negotiation. No amount of land is worth anything without water, and the refusal to guarantee water supply along with the "generous" offer made the whole thing look like a trap.

[souldogs]

Krauthammer says 97%. Other proponents say 98%, stil others say 90%. Many opponents say 80%, Doesn't matter, as WATER rights discussion was deferred to later stages of negotiation. No amount of land is worth anything without water, and the refusal to guarantee water supply along with the "generous" offer made the whole thing look like a trap.

[souldogs]

Krauthammer says 97%. Some say 98% others say 90%, still others say 80%. Doesn't matter; in all variations, water rights discussion was deferred to a later stage. There is no use for any amount of land without water.

[danroberto]

1) Many Muslim leaders declared that the Right-of-Return is not realistic.

2) Arafat himself agreed to Camp David when it was too late. From Clinton's My Life: "Nearly a year after I left office, Arafat said he was ready to negotiate on the basis of the parameters I had presented. Apparently, Arafat had thought the time to decide, five minutes to midnight, had finally come. His watch had been broken a long time."

[believer19]

Without RIGHT-OF-RETURN there is no deal. ARAFAT or any true muslim leader would never agree to any deal without the RIGHT-OF-RETURN for the Native people of Israel.

[abroberts]

The Jews are the Native people of Israel. The Arabs who began to live there mostly immigrated there after the Jews came back to their homeland. The Arabs saw opportunity there as Jews began to resettle their native land. Mant Arabs were given jobs by Jews.