If I was a teacher there I would have put my own locks on the chains and left them there until law came and took them away but even thow they locked themselves I'd get in trouble but it would have Ben worth it. If law would enforce the laws then I'd call the juvenile detention services to come get them.
If the kids walk out throw them out don't let them back to the school if they leave then they can't come back they will need to go somewhere else to a school. Let them cry and learn what happens when they do stuff like that can't let a child run a state or force a school or any type of authority into doing what they want to happen. Let them learn what happens when you disobey the rules.
These schools are teaching hate they are teaching one race to hate another race. This country is not Mexico this is the united states we teach English here if we all lived in Mexico we would expect to learn Mexican culture but we are not. I have Ben to Tucson az and it is a very raciest state mexicans there are hard to explain hateful people. This teaching is uncalled for and not respectable it's not about they're culture it's about teaching hate.
Take a closer look at what these kids are studying!
GOOGLE: Against America CAJeffO
GOOGLE: Rodolfo-Corky-Gonzalez_QUOTES_Documents.2 PDF
... Check back for updates ....
... Remember the 4 nasty things Mexican Studies teaches. 1) Overthrowing the US Gov. 2) Promote resentment towards a race or class of people. 3) Designed to specifically benefit a single ethnic group. 4) Advocate Ethnic solidarity instead of treating pupils as individuals.
This has nothing to do with immigration or the controversial stance on immigration of Arizona. This is about the losers not having to tell history. Every minority including Native Americans have been oppressed so we can tell our own history. Whats wrong with that?
I am sure someone will reply, but I do not grasp the need for ethnic studies. What I would push for are thorough and comprehensive studies in civic understanding, civic involvement for it seems mostly everyone has only fleeting understanding of what our civic duties are. We've forgotten that most of the social rights attained in the early 20th century that textbooks attribute to crusty old politicians were attained by persistent civic involvment by us.
These kids are bandwagoners looking for attention. I wonder how many of these kids actually GO TO SCHOOL or how many are even passing..this is a joke...anything to be on TV I guess..This LaRaza is just as racist as the next organization who make demands like this.."We want our rights?"...Come here LEGALLY, then we can talk..one thing at a time.
The problem is what is contained in the text book. “Hispanic culture has been raped by American colonialism”, “the drug culture is the white man culture because he has no culture of his own”, “ we must fight to destroy capitalism”. La Raza studies? La Raza=The Race. United nations? U.N. law holds no water here. The Constitution is supreme law in the U.S. This is what you get with government schools.
There should be a class on the first humans. I wonder what primitive man looked like? Has anyone ever done a computer simulation on bones of primitive man to see what they looked like? I'll bet some of them had average IQs, but not as many as later modern humans.
This video is ridiculous. The course they are talking about is not about Mexican history. It is about radical overthrow of our government and our system. If you think this is about race, you are being fooled. The Woman who was hired by the defenders of the class to evaluate it ended up standing up against it.
tucson was ancient mexico nowdays known as Aztlan. It was a custom to sacrifice people and eat them. Cannibalism is the essence of Aztlan and La Raza teachings, very well hidden but the real purpose and the essence.
"advocate ethnic solidarity instead of the treatment of pupils as individiuals". so... they've gotten rid of the recitation of the pledge of allegiance too?
seems to me they are teaching them to over throw the american government. and to be good communist. wake up to what is really going on in this country.
This is like fighting for your right to remain racist and undereducated. Why would anyone including Mexican Americans support this? Its just like trying to make ebonics a language. It only shows stupidity... Yes, you have your right to keep your culture alive, but not with Federal dollars!
This is like fighting for your right to remain racist and undereducated. Why would anyone including Mexican Americans support this? Its just like trying to make ebonics a language. It only shows stupidity...
I am not a white person and yet I recognize that I should not impose the study of my race on other people. IT SHOULD BE A CHOICE to take this class. Stop playing victim.
History and social studies should not be that of a class or race of Americans. America is too racialized already and these students are PART OF THE PROBLEM.
Courses in government schools should not advocate the idea that the U.S government is illegitimate and evil. and these ethnic courses do.
I'm getting sick of the victim thing coming from the Mexicans. and im half Mexican i got beat up all the time for being a mix in a poor city in California ill never move back to California they are not victims there a gang of people who don't believe in borders and think white people need to move out of the south west i got beat all the time these people are not victims there acting like it but they are not.
If they want to take it THAT BAD... why not take it as an elective? They will risk getting arrested and chain themselves to chairs for it... but they won't go the extra mile and take it as an elective? Strange.. it's almost as if they WANT a cause to protest..
@CharlieFrancoFilms you're a moron. Taking it as an elective is like demoralizing the class. Why should regular history be a history credit and this isn't? It's not right.
@soadfan333 Ha! Just for saying that I'm a moron? Maybe that's another reason this has been so difficult, the people who want it are so quick to tell the people who make these decisions "morons" and "idiots.." Be peaceful and reasonable about it and maybe you'll get somewhere. Just saying.
@CharlieFrancoFilms Clearly you couldn't say anything about how I explained how your opinion is ignorant so you talk about how I called you a moron. I think I won this discussion.
@soadfan333 it could be that this is America and we teach American and relevant History in our schools. Its not healthy for a county to divide its citizens on race. We would need all types of History Classes taught from other counties point of views and this would only prove to be destructive and costly. If you want to learn more about your cultures past thats great but its not the job of American taxpayers and schools to give that to you at the cost of our history.
@soadfan333 [Taking it as an elective is like demoralizing the class.]
Huh? Other immigrants (ex. Jews and Chinese) study their own culture and history on their own time and money in private schools. Here we have a case where the students not only want the taxpayer to foot the bill, they also want to receive 'core credits'.
[Why ...this isn't?]
B/c the students are taking this INSTEAD of regular history! They are shortchanging themselves by not learning things unrelated to Mexico.
@Arkinight [Besides, what kind of a dumbass studies history?]
Did you not watch the video? That's NOT the point. The point is these students want 'core credit' for taking ethnic studies in lieu of standard courses.
Clearly you have no concept of aggregate demand for labor skills in the marketplace.
@danL1011 Right now there is an aggregate demand for a large pool of labour willing to work for very low wages. Increasingly like Mexico. But that's what the magical mystical 'marketplace' desires.
Marketplace is just a polite way of saying the top 1/10 of 1% that own the society and most of the economy. Sure, they want more drones and less critical thinkers. What use is history, sociology, anthropology to the creation of wealth, our society's noblest aspiration?
Its difficult to take anyone seriously thaty pounds on the desk like a small child. If anyone disagrees with the implementation of ethnic studies that are branded as racist. I have lived close to the border for years and was never taught ethnic studies and have survived well. When I see acts of immaturity like this I get turned off right away and say screw them. Such disrespect for the very system they want a vote from.
the boiling point has been reached. we have to defend america from leeches from mexico who want our money and free healthcare, and burritos for their anchor babies. It is time to buy some guns and be ready for duty. Citizens will start patrolling the border along side with Border Patrol. Stock pile extra water and food for 30 days. Pasta is good and can last for long time. it is time to call all proven patriots like Steve Seagal, Chuck Norris, and my neighbor Joe whose wife is way too hot.
how many of these students have parents illegal here? If there is no birth right citizenship, would we even be watching such non-sense? Or, if their parents were caught and deported on time? And they always just play victims, like they are suppressed by whites, by the government, by someone somewhere, like their right oppressed, etc This is all consequence of broken illegal immigration and Tucson just happened to be close to the border. These kids are small leeches eating burritos of taxpayers.
@Bokismoki77 If there were no birth-right citizenship we would have a massive slave population who would be forced to live in constant fear of being deported if they exercise democratic rights. America established birth-right citizenship because black slaves who lived here all their lives were given no rights. If you want to undo this, you are reintroducing slavery.
@spartan2600 How dare you to missassocate the birthright citizenship of illegal aliens with the african slaves who were forced here? HOW DARE YOU? Just because it sounds rational and logical to you, doesn't mean it is. The african slaves were transported over 3400 nautical miles from northern african countrys of liberia and somalia. Birthright citizenship makes absolutely no sense anywhere, that is the only reason why the US is the only odd man out to have that. NOT EVEN MEXICO HAS IT!
@vanvanbluz Your right the blacks were forced to be here and the illegals come over here for a free ride. Unfortunately the closer you get to ethnic issues the more your going to deal with peoples comments that have no grasp of the big picture like others. Nobody is beating the Mexicans like they did the blacks. This is going nowhere I say the only thing you need to study in America is what is related to this country. Want to learn about others use Google. Im sick of hearing this crap.
@vanvanbluz African slaves have much in common with Hispanic immigrants who are treated like slaves. If they were to be born here but not given citizenship, they will be legally treated as slaves and we would move further and further away from democracy. If they're here, they should have a say in the things that affect them, and therefore be able to vote. I don't care what the laws in Mexico are, I'm an American and I care about the laws in the USA.
@spartan2600 They don't... African slaves were sold at slave trading locations in north africa and forced on ships and resold here in the us. Mexican illegals went through none of that. Birthright citizenship makes no sense, just because an illegal jumped a geographical border and can call her child a US citizen makes absolutely no sense. If i go to germany to work, and i'm not given citizenship, is it my fault or theirs? There is a difference between invasion and diversification.
@vanvanbluz My descendants left Poland shortly before the outbreak of WWII. My great aunt that stayed in Poland eventually died in a concentration camp. If there was an ICE back in the 1930's that sent my family back to Poland, they would've all been slaughtered and I wouldn't exist.
@vanvanbluz Mexicans are escaping economic destruction largely caused by the USA through the passing of NAFTA and other trade deals. They're also fleeing a drug war that has seen tens of thousands of Mexicans slaughtered because of the US's suicidal drug policy. The Guatemalans had to escape death squads that were funded and trained by the US military. Guatemala saw genocidal slaughter in the 80's. A similar thing happened in Nicaragua and Haiti.
@vanvanbluz Hispanic immigrants are no different. They're escaping war, poverty and misery. The US needs to stop screwing over poor countries and start doing good. In the mean time, we must treat the refugees of our foreign and economic policies as human beings who deserve democratic and economic rights like the rest of us.
@spartan2600 No different than what, you are being too vague! Soon we may be able to give mexicans political asylum thanks to the escalation of the drug war which is causing extreme havoc to civil order in mexico. Nevertheless, i don't think ANY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD has a right to invade another sovereign nation, i don't care whom or however poor they think they are. Mexico has 2 times the growth rate than the US, MOST countries in the world are actually poorer than mexico. What do you want?
@vanvanbluz Mexico is not "invading" anybody, look up the definition of the word. Some immigrants from Mexico are coming, that is nothing to do with "invasion."
@vanvanbluz 300,000 is a tiny amount. That is 0.1% of our total population. There are more babies born in the US each year than that! At least immigrants don't leech off the economy as much as newborn-infants do. Immigrants can start working right away, or at least much sooner.
If immigrants are "invading," then newborn babies are a much bigger "threat" and a bigger "drag" on the economy.
@spartan2600 It certainly is an invasion... One that has been happening a long time. The 300000 figure is during the economic downturn, but it used to be over 2million/year. I am pro immigrant, but when the majority of immigrants come from one particular country (i'm not naming names) that unequivocally is an INVASION. You are either just too ignorant to see that, or you have your own political agenda.
@vanvanbluz Yes, I have a political agenda- we all do. You are playing dumb if you claim you don't. Part of my political agenda includes enforcing dictionary defintions of words. Calling a large emmigration of people an "invasion" is dishonest and despicable. Immigrants aren't the 'enemy,' they're people like us.
@spartan2600 It is an invasion... They don't want to assimilate like LEGAL immigrants do. They are 3 times less likely to learn the native language (english). Again, what is your agenda? Mexicos GDP growth is 2 times greater than the us at this point. It will come a point that americans need to immigrate there illegally for economic reasons, but you can't do so unless if you are bringing money to set up a business, can you say the word hypocrisy?
@vanvanbluz GDP growth isn't being spread among the workers, since unions are all but illegal in Mexico. All the wealth is going to millionaires and billionaires like Carlos Slim, who is now as rich or richer than Bill Gates. Much of this is the fault of the US, which has helped rigged election in Mexico and destroy unions. I don't care what language people speak, immigrants are here to feed their family and make a decent living- just like *you.*
@spartan2600 NO, you are wrong NOT JUST LIKE ME. My father came here legally from asia. If people are coming here overwhelmingly from china or india, i would feel exactly the same way about them "invading"! If i were to go to germany just to earn what i consider a decent living, and they deny me citizenship and consider me illegal and kick me out of the country for working illegally, then it is my fault not theirs. Besides, unions are going away, first the private sector then the public.
@gabchuor103 Well if they are, then i congradulate them. There is something to go back to, mexico is considered an up and coming economy. They aren't even 3rd world anymore! Sure the US has caused major political and social hardship in central american countries, but only the ignorant politically motivated would say the us caused mexican illegals to come.
@somebutthead Schools exist to educate. Singling out Mexican History classes is racist, I don't care if you are Hispanic yourself.
When I went to school I learned about my own culture- European History. Hispanic children should have the same opportunities.
Also, learning Mexican/Latin American history is empowering. Do you know who Pancho Villa is? Historic events have the power to inspire. If you don't think Mexican History will help anyone go to college you have no faith in eduation/history
@spartan2600 - Such as? Breaking the law is part of Democracy? Demanding a school district include a class that promotes hatred and death to America is somehow Democratic? Oh please enlightened one, help me to understand!
@BLProd1 The class does not teach hatred, it teaches understanding of the natives and *reduces* violence and racism which is growing drastically. Educating people about the history of minorities is democratic because it helps people understand their problems and issues better.
The fight itself is a noble thing. On the other hand, what does the UN have to do with anything that takes place in AZ? How is it the UN's business? What, does the UN rule the US? Does it have authority to dictate to Arizona state law? Doesn't any sort of UN authority actually take it from the hands of US citizens?
@somebutthead That's of course not the reason why they are eager to get rid of it. It is because in subjects like women's studies and ethnic studies there is at least some semblance of critical thought and questioning of the current structures of power.
@Arkinight [That's of course not the reason why they are eager to get rid of it. ]
Motivation aside, why are high school students getting 'core credits' for these classes? In the 70's and 80's, blacks and women were graduating college w/ degrees in Afro-American studies and Women's studies. Unfortunately, all they were qualified to do was teach those subjects in taxpayer funded courses. The same thing will happen to these kids who only study Mex-Amer. history.
@Arkinight [we won't have enough business graduates]
No, we have too many of those too, along with lawyers. Business majors are only slightly more useful than Marketing majors who are significantly more useful than Mexican Studies or Black Studies or Women's Studies majors. What we need are more scientists and engineers.
we: I was using your term. I assume you meant society (US?) as a whole.
more useful: productive members of society who help to create real wealth or provide services of real value incl. entertainers who lift the human spirit.
Ex. of more useful: Engineers (who design & build cars, bridges, I-phones), scientists, doctors, firefighters, mechanics, farmers, composers.
Ex. of less useful: ambulance chasers, teachers of ebonics, dept. of education, most politicians.
@danL1011 Sure, they should be doing what you would like them to do, not what they enjoy doing. Where the hell would they get a crazy idea like that?
"who help to create real wealth"
Yeah, we definitely have a lack of this in our society. The West is such a poor place, we need more wealth creation.
Great you have your own list of what constitutes usefulness and what doesn't. Keep that narrow minded shit to yourself and let others do what they would like to in life.
@Arkinight [Keep that narrow minded s--t to yourself]
You ASKED for my definition and I gave it to you. Why ask if you didn't want an answer? Where is your sense of civility?
[doing what you would like them to do]
Are you that dense? It doesn't matter what I want, it's what society wants and is willing to pay for. There is only a limited demand for people well versed in Mex-Amer history and nothing else.
We might all want to be rock stars, but it ain't happening. You seem rather clueless.
@danL1011 No, keep the narrow minded bullshit to yourself that says that one must fulfill a wealth creation or some abstract utility that you decide on. Sorry, but this isn't (yet) an authoritarian dictatorship where one is assigned a function that the state deems worthy.
When I mentioned sardonically the fact that we need more business graduates you immediately pounced and pointed out that in your opinion we have too many.
Then you give me this 'marketplace' and 'aggregate demand' shit?
@danL1011 "what society wants and is willing to pay for" Really? Which society? Wall Street that recruits mathematics PhDs to figure out ways to make more profits? Well, society wants it, therefore it's intrinsically good.
The standard reversion to ambiguous truisms when you can't argue a point:
"it's what society wants and is willing to pay for"
What's your gripe? That people who study cultures are not fulfilling a useful social function that can be traded like a commodity?
@Arkinight [No, keep the narrow minded bullshit to yourself that says that one must fulfill a wealth creation or some abstract utility that you decide on.]
You seem to have a chip on your shoulder. Perhaps it is because you studied what you enjoyed and found out there was no demand for your skill?
I won't engage you further. You asked me a question; I gave you an answer; you didn't like my answer and told me to keep the s--t to myself. GLTY.
@danL1011 There's a difference between taking a social studies class in high school and graduating with a BS in the subject. Taking Mexican History classes will make the children more intelligent, well-rounded individuals. Also, the professors and teachers who do the work of teaching are very valuable parts of society. Just because they don't generate profit for a rich white man living in the Hampton's doesn't mean they're useless.
@spartan2600 [There's a difference between taking a social studies class in high school and graduating with a BS in the subject.]
You jumped in the middle.
Anyway, the issue in the story is that these students want 'core credit' for these courses in lieu of taking say: American history and other courses. This has nothing to do with the white man. Research how pursuing 'Black Studies' proved detrimental for black Americans. See Thomas Sowell.
These kids are STUPID. See 4:13. ("violation of OUR civil and human rights")
If these kids took standard American history instead, they might have a better chance of understanding the notion of 'RIGHTS'. Getting core credits for taking ethnic studies is NOT a 'human right'. Sticking the taxpayer with the bill is NOT a 'civil right'. These kids are clueless. They are demanding a special 'privilege'.
@BLProd1 How so? In what way are they misinformed? It seemed to me that they have a pretty good grasp of the issues at stake. Un-American? Since when is it un-American to exercise your rights and rally behind a cause you believe in? We don't live in a dictatorship where everyone is supposed to just shut up and do as they're told.
@HyrbidHermit - Have you taken a moment and read what the curriculum even includes? "Death to the invader!" with the "invader" being the US. It's un-American to side with a foreign country against your homeland. Exercise your rights? They have the right to chain themselves to chairs and completely disrupt a board meeting? Really? When did that become a "right" exactly? No, we don't live in a dictatorship, we live in a democratically elected Republic that is based on the rule of law.
I took regular american history and it must be a core course unlike "ethnic" or "mexican" studies, because it is all inclusive. History talks about all of the ethnic groups, not just one or 2 which are singled out. It isn't right to force people into this curriculum. American history is just as likely to talk about chinese railroad workers and native american treaties, as mexican american ranches and treaties.
@vanvanbluz Mexican history isn't the only mandatory class these students have to take. In Wisconsin, I had Western Civilization and Afro/Asian studies mandatory. We don't have many hispanic students, my district was most white and Asian kids- so all of us learned about the history of our ethnic groups. These classes in Tuscon on Mexican History achieve the same thing. Also, before the USA invaded and stole the land, Arizona WAS Mexico!
@Bokismoki77 Actually, according to the Social Security administration, illegal immigrants pay several billions into SS that they will never see back. Immigrants are "leeches," they're being exploited more than anyone else in America.
According to the Comptroller of Texas, illegal immigrants pay hundreds of millions in state taxes that they never get back.
If we sent all illegal immigrants home tomorrow, the US would be in even worse fiscal shape.
@spartan2600 If you want to take the class, take it as an elective, that is your choice, but don't force it upon anyone else! I never had to take such a class in high school. Besides, the mexicans-spanish stole the land from the native americans, everyone is stealing it from someone else. Unless if you are native, which most mexicans AREN't, then you have no place to talk about whom owns what land.
@vanvanbluz You don't realize that all of high school was "forced" upon you in the first place. If you didn't want to learn, you should fight against the law making secondary school required. However, it is very important for us to learn about the history if Hispanics as well as black people. It lowers racism, racist violence and intolerance. I don't want to force adults to take classes, but we are talking about people in high school who are *children.*
@somebutthead History is History...it's completely legitimate because in what ever history is learned it is a discipline. We are a multitude of people, combinations of many different cultures, and one of the major ones is Mexican. About what kind of job will these students get, they will get any job that is available to an intelligent college educated student....then again, what jobs have we for the 4 and 1/2 million unemployed or underemployed Americans right now?
@Elin48 [History is History...it's completely legitimate]
The problem is that students taking ethnic studies is SUBSTITUTING it for standard history courses. A 'Mexican American' history course is unlikely to cover many important topics in American history that have very little to do with Mexico (e.g. the 13 original colonies). The students taking these courses in lieu of standard courses (ie. for core credit) are being shortchanged.
@Elin48 If you really want to read about the true History of the US, read Howard Zinn's "People's History", what we as teachers since public school began have taught is the white man's History, the elite's History, not from any other vantage point. What about from the American Indian's point of view (the early settler's destroyed their way of life and took their land), or the view of Mexico (most of the land out west belonged to Mexico).
@Elin48 - Wake up, OUR history is just that, OURS. We came, we saw, we expanded, they lost. You may not like it (and you're free to leave at any time, I'll even help) but that is the way it is. Where did the Mexicans come from, or the Germans, or the Italians? We ALL came from somewhere else and settled various parts of the world. So be it, get a clue.
@Elin48 - Where did you learn how to write? "it's belongs to these students" What? You're saying "It is belongs to these students..."? Yes it does, "OURS" as in "Americans". Is that really that difficult of a point to understand? Yes OUR history is theirs as well so why are they so hell bent on teaching the history of Mexico and denigrating America in a U.S. school? How does it make me a racist to be proud of being an American?
@somebutthead Any history program that gives kids an alternative perspective to the dominant narrative of European imperialism is not something that should be abolished. This isn't about jobs or college, it's about dignity. Not everyone buys the "America the beautiful" bullshit you know.
Huh? "Studying" Mexican history and getting core credits for it will do as much for Mexican-Americans as studying Black History did for African-Americans. Squat.
What we need are more Americans of all colors studying science and engineering. Read Thomas Sowell's well researched book on the detrimental effects of affirmative action programs around the world that support the "dignity" of minorities.
if that's the case then American history should also be an elective. you say the "dignity" of minorities.....what is the "dignity" of white people? genocide? They are fighting for this program because they feel that it is HELPING their students and they can prove it.
@shaydm06 [then American history should also be an elective]
Studying American history for American children (of any color) should be an elective? You're kidding, right?
[it is HELPING their students and they can prove it]
The only thing it helps is to graduate more students with fewer useful skills. Read T. Sowell's (a black American economist) research on the detrimental effects of pursuing 'Black Studies' on black Americans.
This comes as no surprise to me education is being attacked on a major scale by private enterprise. To most hamburger eating and gun owning people here in the U.SiIt's much better to get an education in something that will be "useful". The ironic thing about that is there are hardly any jobs out there due to globalization, which was spearheaded by U.S corporations to use third world labor. It's truly mind boggling for me to see how people attack immigrants yet support a lifestyle of consumerism.
@somebutthead so why not throw out all history and social studies out of the schools, its a stupid argument, subjects like these have been on the ciriculum for decades and is part of what you need to do to get the marks to GO TO COLLEGE and get a job, its also obviously racist and must be fought from a civil liberties point of view, if you were not being racist or prejudice you would have to get rid of ALL social studies and history even the European studies even American history
I like this ethnic studies class, but it shouldn't be forced on everyone in highschool, it should definately be an elective since not everyone is interested in learning that material. I don't think it should be forced on anyone. That is why other countries are kicking our ass in academics, because they don't require you to take foofoo classes. I would feel the same way with womens studies or other classes like that which are good for personal development, but not mandated.
These top rated comments are beyond stupid. To the people who go "herp derp mexican history? Why not study all nationalities!?" clearly weren't paying attention or they would know the resolution bans all ethnic studies.
@AndroidPolitician but not european studies, not every american is white, and this is a multicultural nation. stop pretending that it is a monoculture. it isn't.
Racists hate for the victims of their racism to gain knowledge of the reality. That explains this movement. The white power structure does not feel that Arizona is white enough.
Ethnic Studies divide the people and should be an elective you wanna learn about Mexico move there your in America learn American history yall need to drop the hifen your American not mexican. FUCK THE U.N. THEY HAVE NO SAY SO in THE UNITED STATES. the chick talking is lying out here ass im Tejano and never had a problem with "la migra" and ill say it again FUCK THE U.N.
@TexasBeaner214 The USA signed the UN Charter and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, so the UN is the highest legal authority and the UDHD is the highest law of the land.
@spartan2600 i get ya but it was done illegally and without the American people's approval & the UN is not the law of the land in my eyes the US Constitution is and i will die defending it
I understand that the government in Arizona is taking a lot of discriminatory action against Mexican-Americans and they should be opposed absolutely. But making ethnic studies an elective course isn't really a big deal. This doesn't need to be a core course. Ethnic studies of any particular race or religion or what have you should be elective. Math, science, etc, are core courses because they are required regardless of which field you choose to enter. Pick your battles.
Racism is merely tough, skin color above all. human beings are all alike. there is no difference. what the discrimination really is rich or poor, poverty... status or class.. Carlos Slim from Mexico is the wealthiest man on the planet and i promise someone that is worth 90 billion. does not get asked for a passport I promise. money talks ....
@somebutthead Likewise-Mexican-AMerican here but I would have to ask -can they write an academic paper? Read critically? Those are the things missing from educatio n in my view and this is not going to help do anything but create more division in this country.
Did you see the story? That's exactly what it's doing by virtue of students receiving 'core credit' for these classes! THAT is what the students are demanding. THAT is the 'right' they claim is being 'violated'.
what about native american studies ? they are the original north american culture but they dont make that mandatory. this is a prime example of the higher ups in our goverment keeping tensions up between to races///cultures. it should be the students choice whether or not to take the class. otherwise we would have make culture classes mandatory islam--chinese--india---russian----indonesian----and so on and so on ,do a foreign exchage program the border is right there.
@rocky98498 It's ALL ethnic studies, Native American, African American, Mexican American studies etc. It's not a mandatory class but it is a full credit class that can help them graduate. Just because Mexican American students are the loudest doesn't mean they are only out for themselves. It's different here, they are students just like anyone else and they defend their friends and sometimes relatives of other ethnicities. Get your facts straight first before you start posting.
@BoredomCorner It is when there are so many other issues--in my state they are cutting the library services along with public education in general and adult education (ESL GED etc.) and usually the cuts are in the fields of art and literature. They are lucky they even get to have something that specialized!
@BoredomCorner Well bush tried, but I think the Tea Party also condemns bush for it, at least originally. Tea Party is about individual rights, which means freedom. Look for them as an example of a rational anti-authoritarian movement.
@GeminiK The tea party is about replacing government with private-totalitarian structures, IE corporations and businesses. See, the problem with government is that it is potentially democratic, but businesses are perfect totalitarian dictatorships with no purpose other than to enrich a few. In other words, its all about "freedom."
@spartan2600 the tea party your talking about is the one that got hijacked by Glenn Beck and the Republicans the real tea party WAS started by a Ron Paul money bomb in 2007 and its about limited government and going back to using the US Constitution
@spartan2600 So, how exactly does a business trample over freedom, therefore justifying the totalitarian moniker? Remember that just like there are law abiding citizens there exist businesses who follow the rules and deserve no animosity. Hopefully it's not for the simple reason that you dislike materialism.
@GeminiK Businesses exploit workers by paying them not based on the value of their work, but based on the bare minimum of what they will keep working for. If workers were paid what they're worth, their pay would've doubled or tripled in the US between 1980 and 2010, which would correspond to their increase in productivity. In reality, worker pay has been stagnant or declined in that time, but CEO pay has quadrupled or more.
@GeminiK On top of this, businesses don't have any democratic responsibilities to their workers, their customers or the others affected by the business.
@spartan2600 Businesses have always paid the least possible to the workers, which economically should mean what the worker's labor is worth. The amount they produce shouldn't be relevant, just the demand and supply for the skills of an individual laborer. This means CEO vs labor pay statistics are irrelevant. There is no moral ground to require businesses to be democratic. Someone owns the capital, and that someone makes a deal to pay laborers to create products for him. That's it.
@GeminiK We're all human beings, and therfore moral creatures. You are being dishonest claiming your idea of labor and wages is independent of morality. You tacitly assume that it is moral to pay workers tiny salaries, and pay the person who owns the capital most of the wages. I think the opposite.
The option is between tyrannical businesses controlling the economy, or democratizing the economy and limiting or abolishing businesses. You may as well be arguing for political dictatorship.
@GeminiK After all, if people "voluntarily" choose to work for a rich man, then they're also "voluntarily" living in a country... right? If a person can quit their job, thereby relinquishing the boss of all moral responsibility, then a person can leave a country, relinquishing the dictator/leader of that country of all moral responsibility.
@spartan2600 What I tacitly implied is that there's no moral conflict to pay a laborer what he IS worth. It also applies to people who are worth millions. Also, nobody pays wages to the person who has the capital, he has to earn it by selling products people want. As to your dictatorship comparison, business freedom and property right is different from forced everything by despots. And poor people can move if they're free. Immigrants do it all the time.
@GeminiK If a capitalist is free to pay whatever he feels like, then that transaction is less moral than slavery. At least the slave master has the imperative to feed, clothe and shelter the slave and his family, no matter how poorly. The capitalist doesn't own, he *rents* humans, therefore has less incentive to treat him morally. This is proven out by the fact of many workers in my city who work full time, yet are homeless.
@spartan2600 It's true that some people wont make a decent living with certain skill sets in a particular market, but others will succeed in spectacular proportions (Bill Gates or Steve Jobs for example). If it's possible to become more wildly successful then your average small businessman, how can you then compare that to slavery? You cant, it's ridiculous. If a boss doesn't treat you right, make yourself more valuable and he will, or simply quit, which if you are a slave you cant do.
@GeminiK Average workers are as capable of "making themselves more valuable" as a slave is capable of buying his freedom with money. A person can quit, but they're forced to go to another boss to make the same pittance of a wage. Its as much a sham as a 1-party election. No matter what, most people are forced to go supine before a boss to make a living. Also, Bill Gates was born to wealthy, upper-middle class parents, including a lawyer. Gates was born into privilege. Jobs was the same.
@vanvanbluz Does that mean that you will fight and advocate for individual rights, sound money, and low taxes? If so I will congratulate you for your dedication to freedom and objective morality :).
If I was a teacher there I would have put my own locks on the chains and left them there until law came and took them away but even thow they locked themselves I'd get in trouble but it would have Ben worth it. If law would enforce the laws then I'd call the juvenile detention services to come get them.
fordbronco1991 1 month ago
If the kids walk out throw them out don't let them back to the school if they leave then they can't come back they will need to go somewhere else to a school. Let them cry and learn what happens when they do stuff like that can't let a child run a state or force a school or any type of authority into doing what they want to happen. Let them learn what happens when you disobey the rules.
fordbronco1991 1 month ago
These schools are teaching hate they are teaching one race to hate another race. This country is not Mexico this is the united states we teach English here if we all lived in Mexico we would expect to learn Mexican culture but we are not. I have Ben to Tucson az and it is a very raciest state mexicans there are hard to explain hateful people. This teaching is uncalled for and not respectable it's not about they're culture it's about teaching hate.
fordbronco1991 1 month ago
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Take a closer look at what these kids are studying!
GOOGLE: Against America CAJeffO
GOOGLE: Rodolfo-Corky-Gonzalez_QUOTES_Documents.2 PDF
... Check back for updates ....
... Remember the 4 nasty things Mexican Studies teaches. 1) Overthrowing the US Gov. 2) Promote resentment towards a race or class of people. 3) Designed to specifically benefit a single ethnic group. 4) Advocate Ethnic solidarity instead of treating pupils as individuals.
OK --- WHO wants to publicly debate me on this?
CaJeffO 3 months ago
This has nothing to do with immigration or the controversial stance on immigration of Arizona. This is about the losers not having to tell history. Every minority including Native Americans have been oppressed so we can tell our own history. Whats wrong with that?
seth5220 8 months ago
I am sure someone will reply, but I do not grasp the need for ethnic studies. What I would push for are thorough and comprehensive studies in civic understanding, civic involvement for it seems mostly everyone has only fleeting understanding of what our civic duties are. We've forgotten that most of the social rights attained in the early 20th century that textbooks attribute to crusty old politicians were attained by persistent civic involvment by us.
6of6 8 months ago
These kids are bandwagoners looking for attention. I wonder how many of these kids actually GO TO SCHOOL or how many are even passing..this is a joke...anything to be on TV I guess..This LaRaza is just as racist as the next organization who make demands like this.."We want our rights?"...Come here LEGALLY, then we can talk..one thing at a time.
MotorCityPlayer 9 months ago
Commies.
SmokeBojangles 9 months ago
There are 4 rules to ethnic studies classes
1-No promoting the overthrow of our government
2-No promoting racism or hatred
3-No targeting one ethnic group
4-No advocating mob mentality
And they couldn’t eve do that.
ymp5000 9 months ago
The problem is what is contained in the text book. “Hispanic culture has been raped by American colonialism”, “the drug culture is the white man culture because he has no culture of his own”, “ we must fight to destroy capitalism”. La Raza studies? La Raza=The Race. United nations? U.N. law holds no water here. The Constitution is supreme law in the U.S. This is what you get with government schools.
ymp5000 9 months ago
There should be a class on the first humans. I wonder what primitive man looked like? Has anyone ever done a computer simulation on bones of primitive man to see what they looked like? I'll bet some of them had average IQs, but not as many as later modern humans.
ion010101 9 months ago
@ion010101 Yes, all the time. Research any scientific journal or channel.
6of6 8 months ago
Well BOO-HOO ,you can't pass any other class but the hate classes
mzlan3179 9 months ago
This video is ridiculous. The course they are talking about is not about Mexican history. It is about radical overthrow of our government and our system. If you think this is about race, you are being fooled. The Woman who was hired by the defenders of the class to evaluate it ended up standing up against it.
ryanb76 9 months ago
tucson was ancient mexico nowdays known as Aztlan. It was a custom to sacrifice people and eat them. Cannibalism is the essence of Aztlan and La Raza teachings, very well hidden but the real purpose and the essence.
Bokismoki77 9 months ago
@0:19 that old pervert guard grabbed a boob
DickOPlenty 9 months ago
"advocate ethnic solidarity instead of the treatment of pupils as individiuals". so... they've gotten rid of the recitation of the pledge of allegiance too?
notthere83 9 months ago
seems to me they are teaching them to over throw the american government. and to be good communist. wake up to what is really going on in this country.
rubyslippersebels 9 months ago
@rubyslippersebels Real Talk bro. Aztlan
Patjersey3000 9 months ago
SB1070 and all its copycat bills are about NATIONAL/REAL ID. Get educated on this. The immigration front was just a wedge.
cfaz10 9 months ago
This is like fighting for your right to remain racist and undereducated. Why would anyone including Mexican Americans support this? Its just like trying to make ebonics a language. It only shows stupidity... Yes, you have your right to keep your culture alive, but not with Federal dollars!
jrmhrpr 9 months ago
This is like fighting for your right to remain racist and undereducated. Why would anyone including Mexican Americans support this? Its just like trying to make ebonics a language. It only shows stupidity...
jrmhrpr 9 months ago
Ethnic Studies is BULLSHIT.
I am not a white person and yet I recognize that I should not impose the study of my race on other people. IT SHOULD BE A CHOICE to take this class. Stop playing victim.
History and social studies should not be that of a class or race of Americans. America is too racialized already and these students are PART OF THE PROBLEM.
Courses in government schools should not advocate the idea that the U.S government is illegitimate and evil. and these ethnic courses do.
KcKommunistisch 9 months ago
Glenn Beck is going to have teachers on friday that knows those classes have been teaching the overthrow of our government and our rupublic.
Fockersnextdoor 9 months ago 2
I'm getting sick of the victim thing coming from the Mexicans. and im half Mexican i got beat up all the time for being a mix in a poor city in California ill never move back to California they are not victims there a gang of people who don't believe in borders and think white people need to move out of the south west i got beat all the time these people are not victims there acting like it but they are not.
CazyDayz 9 months ago 2
If there are teachers willing to teach and its not mandatory. Then what is the problem.
Siddhawarrior 9 months ago
If they want to take it THAT BAD... why not take it as an elective? They will risk getting arrested and chain themselves to chairs for it... but they won't go the extra mile and take it as an elective? Strange.. it's almost as if they WANT a cause to protest..
CharlieFrancoFilms 9 months ago
@CharlieFrancoFilms you're a moron. Taking it as an elective is like demoralizing the class. Why should regular history be a history credit and this isn't? It's not right.
soadfan333 9 months ago
@soadfan333 Ha! Just for saying that I'm a moron? Maybe that's another reason this has been so difficult, the people who want it are so quick to tell the people who make these decisions "morons" and "idiots.." Be peaceful and reasonable about it and maybe you'll get somewhere. Just saying.
CharlieFrancoFilms 9 months ago
@CharlieFrancoFilms Clearly you couldn't say anything about how I explained how your opinion is ignorant so you talk about how I called you a moron. I think I won this discussion.
peaaaaaace
soadfan333 9 months ago
@soadfan333 it could be that this is America and we teach American and relevant History in our schools. Its not healthy for a county to divide its citizens on race. We would need all types of History Classes taught from other counties point of views and this would only prove to be destructive and costly. If you want to learn more about your cultures past thats great but its not the job of American taxpayers and schools to give that to you at the cost of our history.
walthomas 9 months ago
@soadfan333 [Taking it as an elective is like demoralizing the class.]
Huh? Other immigrants (ex. Jews and Chinese) study their own culture and history on their own time and money in private schools. Here we have a case where the students not only want the taxpayer to foot the bill, they also want to receive 'core credits'.
[Why ...this isn't?]
B/c the students are taking this INSTEAD of regular history! They are shortchanging themselves by not learning things unrelated to Mexico.
danL1011 9 months ago
@danL1011 Besides, what kind of a dumbass studies history? Definitely no use there.
Arkinight 9 months ago
@Arkinight [Besides, what kind of a dumbass studies history?]
Did you not watch the video? That's NOT the point. The point is these students want 'core credit' for taking ethnic studies in lieu of standard courses.
Clearly you have no concept of aggregate demand for labor skills in the marketplace.
danL1011 9 months ago
@danL1011 Right now there is an aggregate demand for a large pool of labour willing to work for very low wages. Increasingly like Mexico. But that's what the magical mystical 'marketplace' desires.
Marketplace is just a polite way of saying the top 1/10 of 1% that own the society and most of the economy. Sure, they want more drones and less critical thinkers. What use is history, sociology, anthropology to the creation of wealth, our society's noblest aspiration?
Arkinight 9 months ago
Its difficult to take anyone seriously thaty pounds on the desk like a small child. If anyone disagrees with the implementation of ethnic studies that are branded as racist. I have lived close to the border for years and was never taught ethnic studies and have survived well. When I see acts of immaturity like this I get turned off right away and say screw them. Such disrespect for the very system they want a vote from.
forsomereasonIhateu 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
the boiling point has been reached. we have to defend america from leeches from mexico who want our money and free healthcare, and burritos for their anchor babies. It is time to buy some guns and be ready for duty. Citizens will start patrolling the border along side with Border Patrol. Stock pile extra water and food for 30 days. Pasta is good and can last for long time. it is time to call all proven patriots like Steve Seagal, Chuck Norris, and my neighbor Joe whose wife is way too hot.
Bokismoki77 9 months ago
how many of these students have parents illegal here? If there is no birth right citizenship, would we even be watching such non-sense? Or, if their parents were caught and deported on time? And they always just play victims, like they are suppressed by whites, by the government, by someone somewhere, like their right oppressed, etc This is all consequence of broken illegal immigration and Tucson just happened to be close to the border. These kids are small leeches eating burritos of taxpayers.
Bokismoki77 9 months ago
@Bokismoki77 If there were no birth-right citizenship we would have a massive slave population who would be forced to live in constant fear of being deported if they exercise democratic rights. America established birth-right citizenship because black slaves who lived here all their lives were given no rights. If you want to undo this, you are reintroducing slavery.
spartan2600 9 months ago
@spartan2600 what if their parents were caught and deported on time like the laws require so?
Bokismoki77 9 months ago
@spartan2600 How dare you to missassocate the birthright citizenship of illegal aliens with the african slaves who were forced here? HOW DARE YOU? Just because it sounds rational and logical to you, doesn't mean it is. The african slaves were transported over 3400 nautical miles from northern african countrys of liberia and somalia. Birthright citizenship makes absolutely no sense anywhere, that is the only reason why the US is the only odd man out to have that. NOT EVEN MEXICO HAS IT!
vanvanbluz 9 months ago
@vanvanbluz Your right the blacks were forced to be here and the illegals come over here for a free ride. Unfortunately the closer you get to ethnic issues the more your going to deal with peoples comments that have no grasp of the big picture like others. Nobody is beating the Mexicans like they did the blacks. This is going nowhere I say the only thing you need to study in America is what is related to this country. Want to learn about others use Google. Im sick of hearing this crap.
forsomereasonIhateu 9 months ago
@vanvanbluz African slaves have much in common with Hispanic immigrants who are treated like slaves. If they were to be born here but not given citizenship, they will be legally treated as slaves and we would move further and further away from democracy. If they're here, they should have a say in the things that affect them, and therefore be able to vote. I don't care what the laws in Mexico are, I'm an American and I care about the laws in the USA.
spartan2600 8 months ago
@spartan2600 They don't... African slaves were sold at slave trading locations in north africa and forced on ships and resold here in the us. Mexican illegals went through none of that. Birthright citizenship makes no sense, just because an illegal jumped a geographical border and can call her child a US citizen makes absolutely no sense. If i go to germany to work, and i'm not given citizenship, is it my fault or theirs? There is a difference between invasion and diversification.
vanvanbluz 8 months ago
@vanvanbluz My descendants left Poland shortly before the outbreak of WWII. My great aunt that stayed in Poland eventually died in a concentration camp. If there was an ICE back in the 1930's that sent my family back to Poland, they would've all been slaughtered and I wouldn't exist.
spartan2600 8 months ago
@vanvanbluz Mexicans are escaping economic destruction largely caused by the USA through the passing of NAFTA and other trade deals. They're also fleeing a drug war that has seen tens of thousands of Mexicans slaughtered because of the US's suicidal drug policy. The Guatemalans had to escape death squads that were funded and trained by the US military. Guatemala saw genocidal slaughter in the 80's. A similar thing happened in Nicaragua and Haiti.
spartan2600 8 months ago
@vanvanbluz Hispanic immigrants are no different. They're escaping war, poverty and misery. The US needs to stop screwing over poor countries and start doing good. In the mean time, we must treat the refugees of our foreign and economic policies as human beings who deserve democratic and economic rights like the rest of us.
spartan2600 8 months ago
@spartan2600 No different than what, you are being too vague! Soon we may be able to give mexicans political asylum thanks to the escalation of the drug war which is causing extreme havoc to civil order in mexico. Nevertheless, i don't think ANY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD has a right to invade another sovereign nation, i don't care whom or however poor they think they are. Mexico has 2 times the growth rate than the US, MOST countries in the world are actually poorer than mexico. What do you want?
vanvanbluz 8 months ago
@vanvanbluz Mexico is not "invading" anybody, look up the definition of the word. Some immigrants from Mexico are coming, that is nothing to do with "invasion."
spartan2600 8 months ago
@spartan2600 300000 illegal aliens are settling into the us from mexico annually. That is Every year!
vanvanbluz 8 months ago 3
@vanvanbluz 300,000 is a tiny amount. That is 0.1% of our total population. There are more babies born in the US each year than that! At least immigrants don't leech off the economy as much as newborn-infants do. Immigrants can start working right away, or at least much sooner.
If immigrants are "invading," then newborn babies are a much bigger "threat" and a bigger "drag" on the economy.
spartan2600 8 months ago
@spartan2600 It certainly is an invasion... One that has been happening a long time. The 300000 figure is during the economic downturn, but it used to be over 2million/year. I am pro immigrant, but when the majority of immigrants come from one particular country (i'm not naming names) that unequivocally is an INVASION. You are either just too ignorant to see that, or you have your own political agenda.
vanvanbluz 8 months ago
@vanvanbluz Yes, I have a political agenda- we all do. You are playing dumb if you claim you don't. Part of my political agenda includes enforcing dictionary defintions of words. Calling a large emmigration of people an "invasion" is dishonest and despicable. Immigrants aren't the 'enemy,' they're people like us.
spartan2600 7 months ago
@vanvanbluz "INVASION–noun
1. An act or instance of invading or entering as an enemy, especially by an army."
There is nothing malicious or army-like about poor immigrants moving to another country to find a job so that they can feed their children.
spartan2600 7 months ago
@spartan2600 It is an invasion... They don't want to assimilate like LEGAL immigrants do. They are 3 times less likely to learn the native language (english). Again, what is your agenda? Mexicos GDP growth is 2 times greater than the us at this point. It will come a point that americans need to immigrate there illegally for economic reasons, but you can't do so unless if you are bringing money to set up a business, can you say the word hypocrisy?
vanvanbluz 7 months ago
@vanvanbluz GDP growth isn't being spread among the workers, since unions are all but illegal in Mexico. All the wealth is going to millionaires and billionaires like Carlos Slim, who is now as rich or richer than Bill Gates. Much of this is the fault of the US, which has helped rigged election in Mexico and destroy unions. I don't care what language people speak, immigrants are here to feed their family and make a decent living- just like *you.*
spartan2600 6 months ago
@spartan2600 NO, you are wrong NOT JUST LIKE ME. My father came here legally from asia. If people are coming here overwhelmingly from china or india, i would feel exactly the same way about them "invading"! If i were to go to germany just to earn what i consider a decent living, and they deny me citizenship and consider me illegal and kick me out of the country for working illegally, then it is my fault not theirs. Besides, unions are going away, first the private sector then the public.
vanvanbluz 6 months ago
@vanvanbluz What about the ones that go back, we never talk about that number and its a high percentage.
gabchuor103 3 weeks ago
@gabchuor103 Well if they are, then i congradulate them. There is something to go back to, mexico is considered an up and coming economy. They aren't even 3rd world anymore! Sure the US has caused major political and social hardship in central american countries, but only the ignorant politically motivated would say the us caused mexican illegals to come.
vanvanbluz 3 weeks ago
@somebutthead Schools exist to educate. Singling out Mexican History classes is racist, I don't care if you are Hispanic yourself.
When I went to school I learned about my own culture- European History. Hispanic children should have the same opportunities.
Also, learning Mexican/Latin American history is empowering. Do you know who Pancho Villa is? Historic events have the power to inspire. If you don't think Mexican History will help anyone go to college you have no faith in eduation/history
spartan2600 9 months ago
This has got to be the most demented group of il-informed, clueless, anti-American, bigoted children I have ever seen.
BLProd1 9 months ago
@BLProd1 The know something about democracy you evidently don't.
spartan2600 9 months ago
@spartan2600 - Such as? Breaking the law is part of Democracy? Demanding a school district include a class that promotes hatred and death to America is somehow Democratic? Oh please enlightened one, help me to understand!
BLProd1 9 months ago
@BLProd1 The class does not teach hatred, it teaches understanding of the natives and *reduces* violence and racism which is growing drastically. Educating people about the history of minorities is democratic because it helps people understand their problems and issues better.
spartan2600 8 months ago
The fight itself is a noble thing. On the other hand, what does the UN have to do with anything that takes place in AZ? How is it the UN's business? What, does the UN rule the US? Does it have authority to dictate to Arizona state law? Doesn't any sort of UN authority actually take it from the hands of US citizens?
elementaljoe 9 months ago
@somebutthead That's of course not the reason why they are eager to get rid of it. It is because in subjects like women's studies and ethnic studies there is at least some semblance of critical thought and questioning of the current structures of power.
Arkinight 9 months ago
@Arkinight [That's of course not the reason why they are eager to get rid of it. ]
Motivation aside, why are high school students getting 'core credits' for these classes? In the 70's and 80's, blacks and women were graduating college w/ degrees in Afro-American studies and Women's studies. Unfortunately, all they were qualified to do was teach those subjects in taxpayer funded courses. The same thing will happen to these kids who only study Mex-Amer. history.
danL1011 9 months ago
@danL1011 Yeah we won't have enough business graduates to staff corporate boardrooms.
Arkinight 9 months ago
@Arkinight [we won't have enough business graduates]
No, we have too many of those too, along with lawyers. Business majors are only slightly more useful than Marketing majors who are significantly more useful than Mexican Studies or Black Studies or Women's Studies majors. What we need are more scientists and engineers.
danL1011 9 months ago
@danL1011 "more useful" - care to define this ambiguous language?
"we need" - who is this amorphous 'we'? You and those who agree with you?
Arkinight 9 months ago
@Arkinight [we, more useful]
we: I was using your term. I assume you meant society (US?) as a whole.
more useful: productive members of society who help to create real wealth or provide services of real value incl. entertainers who lift the human spirit.
Ex. of more useful: Engineers (who design & build cars, bridges, I-phones), scientists, doctors, firefighters, mechanics, farmers, composers.
Ex. of less useful: ambulance chasers, teachers of ebonics, dept. of education, most politicians.
danL1011 9 months ago
@danL1011 Sure, they should be doing what you would like them to do, not what they enjoy doing. Where the hell would they get a crazy idea like that?
"who help to create real wealth"
Yeah, we definitely have a lack of this in our society. The West is such a poor place, we need more wealth creation.
Great you have your own list of what constitutes usefulness and what doesn't. Keep that narrow minded shit to yourself and let others do what they would like to in life.
Arkinight 9 months ago
@Arkinight [Keep that narrow minded s--t to yourself]
You ASKED for my definition and I gave it to you. Why ask if you didn't want an answer? Where is your sense of civility?
[doing what you would like them to do]
Are you that dense? It doesn't matter what I want, it's what society wants and is willing to pay for. There is only a limited demand for people well versed in Mex-Amer history and nothing else.
We might all want to be rock stars, but it ain't happening. You seem rather clueless.
danL1011 9 months ago
@danL1011 No, keep the narrow minded bullshit to yourself that says that one must fulfill a wealth creation or some abstract utility that you decide on. Sorry, but this isn't (yet) an authoritarian dictatorship where one is assigned a function that the state deems worthy.
When I mentioned sardonically the fact that we need more business graduates you immediately pounced and pointed out that in your opinion we have too many.
Then you give me this 'marketplace' and 'aggregate demand' shit?
Arkinight 9 months ago
@danL1011 Can't have it both ways, can't say that it's wrong in this way but correct the other.
Doublethink:
Whatever the market wants is best
Right now the market wants more business graduates but that's wrong
Arkinight 9 months ago
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@Arkinight [Can't have it both ways]
I have no idea what you are trying to say.
[Whatever the market wants is best... more business graduates but that's wrong]
What does this have to do with high school kids not learning Amer history b/c they are taking ethnic studies?
danL1011 9 months ago
@danL1011 "what society wants and is willing to pay for" Really? Which society? Wall Street that recruits mathematics PhDs to figure out ways to make more profits? Well, society wants it, therefore it's intrinsically good.
The standard reversion to ambiguous truisms when you can't argue a point:
"it's what society wants and is willing to pay for"
What's your gripe? That people who study cultures are not fulfilling a useful social function that can be traded like a commodity?
Arkinight 9 months ago
@Arkinight [No, keep the narrow minded bullshit to yourself that says that one must fulfill a wealth creation or some abstract utility that you decide on.]
You seem to have a chip on your shoulder. Perhaps it is because you studied what you enjoyed and found out there was no demand for your skill?
I won't engage you further. You asked me a question; I gave you an answer; you didn't like my answer and told me to keep the s--t to myself. GLTY.
danL1011 9 months ago
@Arkinight [What's your gripe?]
One final thought. I have no gripe. I just think that these students are shortchanging themselves and are in for a rude reality.
danL1011 9 months ago
@danL1011 Sure, the marketplace (read giant internally managed command economies called 'corporations') doesn't want them.
But the marketplace knows best so we should stop arguing.
Arkinight 9 months ago
@danL1011 There's a difference between taking a social studies class in high school and graduating with a BS in the subject. Taking Mexican History classes will make the children more intelligent, well-rounded individuals. Also, the professors and teachers who do the work of teaching are very valuable parts of society. Just because they don't generate profit for a rich white man living in the Hampton's doesn't mean they're useless.
spartan2600 9 months ago
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@spartan2600 [There's a difference between taking a social studies class in high school and graduating with a BS in the subject.]
You jumped in the middle.
Anyway, the issue in the story is that these students want 'core credit' for these courses in lieu of taking say: American history and other courses. This has nothing to do with the white man. Research how pursuing 'Black Studies' proved detrimental for black Americans. See Thomas Sowell.
danL1011 9 months ago
@somebutthead Check the history of Arizona
cheddyrod 9 months ago
These kids are incredible!
HyrbidHermit 9 months ago
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@HyrbidHermit [These kids are incredible!]
These kids are STUPID. See 4:13. ("violation of OUR civil and human rights")
If these kids took standard American history instead, they might have a better chance of understanding the notion of 'RIGHTS'. Getting core credits for taking ethnic studies is NOT a 'human right'. Sticking the taxpayer with the bill is NOT a 'civil right'. These kids are clueless. They are demanding a special 'privilege'.
danL1011 9 months ago
@HyrbidHermit - Yes, incredibly stupid, incredibly mis-informed, incredibly un-American and an incredible embarrassment to our country.
BLProd1 9 months ago
@BLProd1 How so? In what way are they misinformed? It seemed to me that they have a pretty good grasp of the issues at stake. Un-American? Since when is it un-American to exercise your rights and rally behind a cause you believe in? We don't live in a dictatorship where everyone is supposed to just shut up and do as they're told.
HyrbidHermit 9 months ago
@HyrbidHermit - Have you taken a moment and read what the curriculum even includes? "Death to the invader!" with the "invader" being the US. It's un-American to side with a foreign country against your homeland. Exercise your rights? They have the right to chain themselves to chairs and completely disrupt a board meeting? Really? When did that become a "right" exactly? No, we don't live in a dictatorship, we live in a democratically elected Republic that is based on the rule of law.
BLProd1 9 months ago
I took regular american history and it must be a core course unlike "ethnic" or "mexican" studies, because it is all inclusive. History talks about all of the ethnic groups, not just one or 2 which are singled out. It isn't right to force people into this curriculum. American history is just as likely to talk about chinese railroad workers and native american treaties, as mexican american ranches and treaties.
vanvanbluz 9 months ago
@vanvanbluz Mexican history isn't the only mandatory class these students have to take. In Wisconsin, I had Western Civilization and Afro/Asian studies mandatory. We don't have many hispanic students, my district was most white and Asian kids- so all of us learned about the history of our ethnic groups. These classes in Tuscon on Mexican History achieve the same thing. Also, before the USA invaded and stole the land, Arizona WAS Mexico!
spartan2600 9 months ago
@spartan2600 hehehehe...... typical la raza lover who supports social leeches
Bokismoki77 9 months ago
@Bokismoki77 Actually, according to the Social Security administration, illegal immigrants pay several billions into SS that they will never see back. Immigrants are "leeches," they're being exploited more than anyone else in America.
According to the Comptroller of Texas, illegal immigrants pay hundreds of millions in state taxes that they never get back.
If we sent all illegal immigrants home tomorrow, the US would be in even worse fiscal shape.
spartan2600 8 months ago
@spartan2600 If you want to take the class, take it as an elective, that is your choice, but don't force it upon anyone else! I never had to take such a class in high school. Besides, the mexicans-spanish stole the land from the native americans, everyone is stealing it from someone else. Unless if you are native, which most mexicans AREN't, then you have no place to talk about whom owns what land.
vanvanbluz 9 months ago
@vanvanbluz You don't realize that all of high school was "forced" upon you in the first place. If you didn't want to learn, you should fight against the law making secondary school required. However, it is very important for us to learn about the history if Hispanics as well as black people. It lowers racism, racist violence and intolerance. I don't want to force adults to take classes, but we are talking about people in high school who are *children.*
spartan2600 8 months ago
@somebutthead History is History...it's completely legitimate because in what ever history is learned it is a discipline. We are a multitude of people, combinations of many different cultures, and one of the major ones is Mexican. About what kind of job will these students get, they will get any job that is available to an intelligent college educated student....then again, what jobs have we for the 4 and 1/2 million unemployed or underemployed Americans right now?
Elin48 9 months ago
@Elin48 [History is History...it's completely legitimate]
The problem is that students taking ethnic studies is SUBSTITUTING it for standard history courses. A 'Mexican American' history course is unlikely to cover many important topics in American history that have very little to do with Mexico (e.g. the 13 original colonies). The students taking these courses in lieu of standard courses (ie. for core credit) are being shortchanged.
danL1011 9 months ago
@Elin48 If you really want to read about the true History of the US, read Howard Zinn's "People's History", what we as teachers since public school began have taught is the white man's History, the elite's History, not from any other vantage point. What about from the American Indian's point of view (the early settler's destroyed their way of life and took their land), or the view of Mexico (most of the land out west belonged to Mexico).
Elin48 9 months ago
@Elin48 - Wake up, OUR history is just that, OURS. We came, we saw, we expanded, they lost. You may not like it (and you're free to leave at any time, I'll even help) but that is the way it is. Where did the Mexicans come from, or the Germans, or the Italians? We ALL came from somewhere else and settled various parts of the world. So be it, get a clue.
BLProd1 9 months ago
@BLProd1 OURS?...it's belongs to these college students too in Tuscon, AZ, not just yours, a white conservative and racist man.
Elin48 9 months ago
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@Elin48 - Where did you learn how to write? "it's belongs to these students" What? You're saying "It is belongs to these students..."? Yes it does, "OURS" as in "Americans". Is that really that difficult of a point to understand? Yes OUR history is theirs as well so why are they so hell bent on teaching the history of Mexico and denigrating America in a U.S. school? How does it make me a racist to be proud of being an American?
BLProd1 9 months ago
@somebutthead Any history program that gives kids an alternative perspective to the dominant narrative of European imperialism is not something that should be abolished. This isn't about jobs or college, it's about dignity. Not everyone buys the "America the beautiful" bullshit you know.
blackiron60 9 months ago 2
@blackiron60 [it's about dignity]
Huh? "Studying" Mexican history and getting core credits for it will do as much for Mexican-Americans as studying Black History did for African-Americans. Squat.
What we need are more Americans of all colors studying science and engineering. Read Thomas Sowell's well researched book on the detrimental effects of affirmative action programs around the world that support the "dignity" of minorities.
danL1011 9 months ago
@danL1011
if that's the case then American history should also be an elective. you say the "dignity" of minorities.....what is the "dignity" of white people? genocide? They are fighting for this program because they feel that it is HELPING their students and they can prove it.
shaydm06 9 months ago
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@shaydm06 [then American history should also be an elective]
Studying American history for American children (of any color) should be an elective? You're kidding, right?
[it is HELPING their students and they can prove it]
The only thing it helps is to graduate more students with fewer useful skills. Read T. Sowell's (a black American economist) research on the detrimental effects of pursuing 'Black Studies' on black Americans.
danL1011 9 months ago
This comes as no surprise to me education is being attacked on a major scale by private enterprise. To most hamburger eating and gun owning people here in the U.SiIt's much better to get an education in something that will be "useful". The ironic thing about that is there are hardly any jobs out there due to globalization, which was spearheaded by U.S corporations to use third world labor. It's truly mind boggling for me to see how people attack immigrants yet support a lifestyle of consumerism.
Alberto2382 9 months ago
This is happening in Tucson? No Latin American studies required in Tucson? Isn't Tucson in Latin America?
hatemorethanyou999 9 months ago
@somebutthead so why not throw out all history and social studies out of the schools, its a stupid argument, subjects like these have been on the ciriculum for decades and is part of what you need to do to get the marks to GO TO COLLEGE and get a job, its also obviously racist and must be fought from a civil liberties point of view, if you were not being racist or prejudice you would have to get rid of ALL social studies and history even the European studies even American history
phoboskitty 9 months ago
@phoboskitty you've said it perfectly.
Elin48 9 months ago
I like this ethnic studies class, but it shouldn't be forced on everyone in highschool, it should definately be an elective since not everyone is interested in learning that material. I don't think it should be forced on anyone. That is why other countries are kicking our ass in academics, because they don't require you to take foofoo classes. I would feel the same way with womens studies or other classes like that which are good for personal development, but not mandated.
vanvanbluz 9 months ago
Are these people legal? I'd call I.C.E. ! Support HB 2281.
xxbobdeexx 9 months ago
Ya basta! Fuck the border.
JaysonH2 9 months ago
If they want results, don't pay for taxes.
Emil246 9 months ago
These top rated comments are beyond stupid. To the people who go "herp derp mexican history? Why not study all nationalities!?" clearly weren't paying attention or they would know the resolution bans all ethnic studies.
AndroidPolitician 9 months ago 4
@AndroidPolitician Interesting :). So, the group "Unidos" is defending all ethnicities mandate to be required to study their ethnic history, right?
GeminiK 9 months ago
@AndroidPolitician but not european studies, not every american is white, and this is a multicultural nation. stop pretending that it is a monoculture. it isn't.
lordblazer 9 months ago
@lordblazer
I was talking about people for the resolution, I'm for ethnic studies.
AndroidPolitician 9 months ago
@AndroidPolitician wrong-this is about 1 class that is mandatory
ryanb76 9 months ago
Seems like European History is the only history! /end sarcasm
You have evry right to fight for your studies, stick it to the white devils,
maokly1 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Racists hate for the victims of their racism to gain knowledge of the reality. That explains this movement. The white power structure does not feel that Arizona is white enough.
ginesdepasamonte 9 months ago 2
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ginesdepasamonte 9 months ago
Ethnic Studies = Racist Studies
wolfengheist 9 months ago
@somebutthead You Said It... Thumbs up.
Whatever happened to self education? Can't these people read?! Do they need a lecturer to read to them? Do they need the Gov. to wipe their arse too?
DackIsBack 9 months ago
Ethnic Studies divide the people and should be an elective you wanna learn about Mexico move there your in America learn American history yall need to drop the hifen your American not mexican. FUCK THE U.N. THEY HAVE NO SAY SO in THE UNITED STATES. the chick talking is lying out here ass im Tejano and never had a problem with "la migra" and ill say it again FUCK THE U.N.
TexasBeaner214 9 months ago
@TexasBeaner214 The USA signed the UN Charter and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, so the UN is the highest legal authority and the UDHD is the highest law of the land.
spartan2600 9 months ago
@spartan2600 i get ya but it was done illegally and without the American people's approval & the UN is not the law of the land in my eyes the US Constitution is and i will die defending it
TexasBeaner214 9 months ago
@TexasBeaner214 Actually, any treaty the US signs is as legally binding as the US Constitution is. You may not like it, but that's the law.
Also, I used to be a fan of Ron Paul- I voted for him in the 2008 primaries. I've changed my outlooks since then.
spartan2600 8 months ago
The wording of the bill is shady, though.
watermelonygoodness 9 months ago
I understand that the government in Arizona is taking a lot of discriminatory action against Mexican-Americans and they should be opposed absolutely. But making ethnic studies an elective course isn't really a big deal. This doesn't need to be a core course. Ethnic studies of any particular race or religion or what have you should be elective. Math, science, etc, are core courses because they are required regardless of which field you choose to enter. Pick your battles.
watermelonygoodness 9 months ago
Racism is merely tough, skin color above all. human beings are all alike. there is no difference. what the discrimination really is rich or poor, poverty... status or class.. Carlos Slim from Mexico is the wealthiest man on the planet and i promise someone that is worth 90 billion. does not get asked for a passport I promise. money talks ....
soulresistor 9 months ago
@somebutthead Likewise-Mexican-AMerican here but I would have to ask -can they write an academic paper? Read critically? Those are the things missing from educatio n in my view and this is not going to help do anything but create more division in this country.
allgoraro 9 months ago
@allgoraro Hey, I'm Mexican-American too ^_^, and we have the same view on this.
GeminiK 9 months ago
@allgoraro Ethnic studies classes aren't crowding out reading and writing classes. Its not like anybody has to choose one or the other.
spartan2600 9 months ago
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@spartan2600 [Ethnic studies classes aren't crowding out reading and writing classes]
Did you see the story? That's exactly what it's doing by virtue of students receiving 'core credit' for these classes! THAT is what the students are demanding. THAT is the 'right' they claim is being 'violated'.
danL1011 9 months ago
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chad071981 9 months ago
what about native american studies ? they are the original north american culture but they dont make that mandatory. this is a prime example of the higher ups in our goverment keeping tensions up between to races///cultures. it should be the students choice whether or not to take the class. otherwise we would have make culture classes mandatory islam--chinese--india---russian----indonesian----and so on and so on ,do a foreign exchage program the border is right there.
rocky98498 9 months ago 3
@rocky98498 It's ALL ethnic studies, Native American, African American, Mexican American studies etc. It's not a mandatory class but it is a full credit class that can help them graduate. Just because Mexican American students are the loudest doesn't mean they are only out for themselves. It's different here, they are students just like anyone else and they defend their friends and sometimes relatives of other ethnicities. Get your facts straight first before you start posting.
YadhiraZ 9 months ago 3
AZ = NAZI Germany!
goru426 9 months ago
@goru426 So California is Soviet Russia :P?
GeminiK 9 months ago
Amazing to see this country being ripped apart from the inside out.
Itchhhh 9 months ago
Did you see that cop gropping that girl. He should be arrested.
dragon8me2 9 months ago
seem to be complaining about nothing. Edcuation is being cut everywhere!
allgoraro 9 months ago
@allgoraro That's hardly "complaining about nothing".
BoredomCorner 9 months ago
@BoredomCorner It is when there are so many other issues--in my state they are cutting the library services along with public education in general and adult education (ESL GED etc.) and usually the cuts are in the fields of art and literature. They are lucky they even get to have something that specialized!
allgoraro 9 months ago
seem to be complaining about nothing.
allgoraro 9 months ago
Obama is "change" for sure. I bet he will be re-elected and then build a totalitarian system.... just watch.
JangosSoulja 9 months ago
@JangosSoulja You mean like Bush did his best to do? And the Tea Party has tried?
BoredomCorner 9 months ago
@BoredomCorner Well bush tried, but I think the Tea Party also condemns bush for it, at least originally. Tea Party is about individual rights, which means freedom. Look for them as an example of a rational anti-authoritarian movement.
GeminiK 9 months ago
@GeminiK The tea party is about replacing government with private-totalitarian structures, IE corporations and businesses. See, the problem with government is that it is potentially democratic, but businesses are perfect totalitarian dictatorships with no purpose other than to enrich a few. In other words, its all about "freedom."
spartan2600 9 months ago
@spartan2600 the tea party your talking about is the one that got hijacked by Glenn Beck and the Republicans the real tea party WAS started by a Ron Paul money bomb in 2007 and its about limited government and going back to using the US Constitution
TexasBeaner214 9 months ago
@spartan2600 So, how exactly does a business trample over freedom, therefore justifying the totalitarian moniker? Remember that just like there are law abiding citizens there exist businesses who follow the rules and deserve no animosity. Hopefully it's not for the simple reason that you dislike materialism.
GeminiK 9 months ago
@GeminiK Businesses exploit workers by paying them not based on the value of their work, but based on the bare minimum of what they will keep working for. If workers were paid what they're worth, their pay would've doubled or tripled in the US between 1980 and 2010, which would correspond to their increase in productivity. In reality, worker pay has been stagnant or declined in that time, but CEO pay has quadrupled or more.
spartan2600 8 months ago
@GeminiK On top of this, businesses don't have any democratic responsibilities to their workers, their customers or the others affected by the business.
spartan2600 8 months ago
@spartan2600 Businesses have always paid the least possible to the workers, which economically should mean what the worker's labor is worth. The amount they produce shouldn't be relevant, just the demand and supply for the skills of an individual laborer. This means CEO vs labor pay statistics are irrelevant. There is no moral ground to require businesses to be democratic. Someone owns the capital, and that someone makes a deal to pay laborers to create products for him. That's it.
GeminiK 8 months ago
@GeminiK We're all human beings, and therfore moral creatures. You are being dishonest claiming your idea of labor and wages is independent of morality. You tacitly assume that it is moral to pay workers tiny salaries, and pay the person who owns the capital most of the wages. I think the opposite.
The option is between tyrannical businesses controlling the economy, or democratizing the economy and limiting or abolishing businesses. You may as well be arguing for political dictatorship.
spartan2600 8 months ago
@GeminiK After all, if people "voluntarily" choose to work for a rich man, then they're also "voluntarily" living in a country... right? If a person can quit their job, thereby relinquishing the boss of all moral responsibility, then a person can leave a country, relinquishing the dictator/leader of that country of all moral responsibility.
spartan2600 8 months ago
@spartan2600 What I tacitly implied is that there's no moral conflict to pay a laborer what he IS worth. It also applies to people who are worth millions. Also, nobody pays wages to the person who has the capital, he has to earn it by selling products people want. As to your dictatorship comparison, business freedom and property right is different from forced everything by despots. And poor people can move if they're free. Immigrants do it all the time.
GeminiK 8 months ago
@GeminiK If a capitalist is free to pay whatever he feels like, then that transaction is less moral than slavery. At least the slave master has the imperative to feed, clothe and shelter the slave and his family, no matter how poorly. The capitalist doesn't own, he *rents* humans, therefore has less incentive to treat him morally. This is proven out by the fact of many workers in my city who work full time, yet are homeless.
There is no equality between boss and worker.
spartan2600 8 months ago
@spartan2600 It's true that some people wont make a decent living with certain skill sets in a particular market, but others will succeed in spectacular proportions (Bill Gates or Steve Jobs for example). If it's possible to become more wildly successful then your average small businessman, how can you then compare that to slavery? You cant, it's ridiculous. If a boss doesn't treat you right, make yourself more valuable and he will, or simply quit, which if you are a slave you cant do.
GeminiK 8 months ago 2
@GeminiK Average workers are as capable of "making themselves more valuable" as a slave is capable of buying his freedom with money. A person can quit, but they're forced to go to another boss to make the same pittance of a wage. Its as much a sham as a 1-party election. No matter what, most people are forced to go supine before a boss to make a living. Also, Bill Gates was born to wealthy, upper-middle class parents, including a lawyer. Gates was born into privilege. Jobs was the same.
spartan2600 8 months ago
@GeminiK illegal aliens have turned me into a republican, congratulations!
vanvanbluz 6 months ago
@vanvanbluz Does that mean that you will fight and advocate for individual rights, sound money, and low taxes? If so I will congratulate you for your dedication to freedom and objective morality :).
GeminiK 6 months ago
@GeminiK ohh sorry, that was meant for spartan2600, but ok thanks
vanvanbluz 6 months ago