In this video she is not perfect because she was ill but I saw her live in another performance and she was amazing in every respect. I liked also the regie except in some points. The really things that I did not like were the long grey whig and the staging. For all who love this wonderful opera of Donizetti's sung by this team (Edita Gruberova, Pavol Breslik, Alice Coote, Franco Vasallo) I recommend the entire opera under youtube looking for Lucrezia Borgia, Pavol Breslik 129 min
"Magica, magica, magica ..."endlessly repeated and I agree with him. In his second comments he invites all the Gruberova's detractors (in my opinion extremely arrogant and in some cases also rough and ill-bred for their absolute lack of respect of the tastes of other people who are by them heavily offended, called idiot, stupid ecc) to save their time and efforts in writing critics to Edita which would not certainly change her fan's opinion about her.
especially the Sutherland (edition 1972) but anyway, sincerly, I would pay a ticket ten times or even more only to listen to Lucrezia Borgia sung by Edita Gruberova and the other singers, the "grandioso" Pavel Breslik, the wonderful Alice Coote and Franco Vasallo. I liked also the chorus and the orchestra director.
An italian Gruberova's admirer (the Chiambretti) under another video wrote 2 comments. In the first one he simply says about Edita
As another person said, there are young singers who sing with an awful voice (that sometimes sounds old with an ugly timbre) and poor acting. They should retire before Gruberova. And Edita will retire when she decides to do it and their fans will miss her immensely. So, please, the ones woh don't like her, see and listen to Lucrezia Borgia only sung by Sutherland, Devia, Weidinger,.... I am not a musical expert and as a profane i have heard all of them and I must say that I like them all,
Another pretentious, arty-farty, European (German!) production! ... But CUDOS to the great Gruberova... one of the greats...... My only gripe is her constant sliding up to the Eb! ... even 20 years ago! ... Woman just attack the note directly
@andreernestgretry X ME LA GRUBEROVA E' PERFETTA IN QUESTI RUOLI ANKE VOCALMENTE... L UNICA COSA KE LEI IN QUEST ULTIMO DECENNIO DA UN INTERPRETAZIONE VERISTA CON SUONI STRANI SMORFIE ECC... MA NON SI PUO DIRE KE LA GRUBEROVA SIA AL DECLINO...ANZI..C E NE FOSSERO IN ITALIA ALLA SUA ETA'...X ME LEI E LA DEVIA SONO DUE MOSTRI SACRI DELLA LIRICA...
@emilytransex non ho detto che è in declino, seppur l'età c'è e si sente, e non metto in dubbio la sua tecnica vocale, ma la borgia NON è un suo ruolo, direi!
@emilytransex non ho detto che è in declino, seppur l'età c'è e si sente, e non metto in dubbio la sua tecnica vocale, ma la borgia NON è un suo ruolo, direi!
e, poi, aggiungo, mi sembra decisamente scorretto dare un'intepretazione verista ad un'opera d'estrazione ottocentesca, ti pare?
@andreernestgretry HAI ASSOLUTAMENTE RAGIONE... IO APPREZZO LA GRUBEROVA XKE HA DEDICATO TUTTA LA SUA VITA ALLA MUSICA...PER QUESTO E' UNA DIVA... IO ANCORA NON SONO RIUSCITA A SENTIRLA DAL VIVO... LEI HA CANTATO MOLTO COL MIO MAESTRO MAURIZIO PICCONI... C E LA FIGLIA DEL REGGIMENTO DI TUTTI E DUE QUA E OGNI VOLTA A LEZIONE SENTO PARLARE DELLA GRUBEROVA E DELLA SUA TECNICA ASSOLUTA. MAGARI ANKIO POTESSI CANTARE X 40 ANNI DI SEGUITO SENZA PERDERE LA VOCE...
let me see what you mean - if a singer goes out and sings badly at the age of 80 and sings a C6 for example that means she sings well? that we actually have to listen to that crap? what for?
Regarding the production of this particular Lucrezia ... sorry, but for me it has to be period costumes .... I hate all these pretentious/arty-farty.... (usually German/French) minimalist productions with modern dress!...YUK... and insult to the music..
You see a great soprano or tenor, is great even when past her/his peak.... The respect they command and the command they have of their repertoire is what makes them great. Callas, Sutherland, Sills, Gencer, Caballe, Mesple, Devia, Anderson and Gruberova...each Bel Canto Royalty! These great women need to be the role-models of every aspiring coloratura!
Without doubt one of the greatest Bel Canto sopranos .... Her early recordings of the three Queens!!! OMG amazing ... You have to admire the courage to sing such a huge role as Lucrezia at her age. She's obviously past her peak here, but the young generation need to learn from this GREAT woman ... It thrills me to hear the 'Bravas' whenever she electrifies her stage... which she OWNS! Repsect to you Edita ... pls give masterclasses!
Edita Gruberova hat jetzt 64 jahren alt, für ein fraun mit 64 jahren alt sie bist toll und Edita hat ein junge stimme, hat vielle junge sänger und sängarinen in aktualität mit schlecht und alte stimme und für mich Edita bist ein DIVA immer, immer, immer.
Two very strange notes! No money for a hairdresser? I never did care for her vocal production. I know she is a great actress and certainly can sing all the notes and moreso, but ..... I guess it is a matter of taste then. But so many notes that sound more like train whistles.
curieux sous pretexte de modernité certains metteurs en scène présentent des operas en vétements actuels et sans decor ce qui à mon humble avis est une
hérésie car les costumes d'époque et les décors contribuent grandement à la magie de l'opéra et constituent un écrin pour les chanteurs.
Dunque: io l'ho ascoltata nel 2008 al Liceu di Barcellona nello stesso ruolo ed è stata strepitosa.Ma era una rappresentazione in forma d'oratorio, il che vuol dire moltissimo: niente scena, niente fatica, niente trucchi, parrucche, cambi di vestito. Avevo la pelle d'oca. In questo video, invece, la voce è scadente. Nelle note basse addirittura imbarazzante. Motivi: calo di voce, fatica sul palco non più reggibile, giornata sfortunata. MI è dispiaciuto vederla in queste condizioni.
@fansclubnicolalecca Io ho visto la performance dal vivo a Monaco il 25 settembre 2009... Beh, magari sarò stato particolarmente fortunato io ma è stata una serata formidabile! tutte le note a posto, la voce al top, e l'acuto finale PERFETTO che mai mi dimenticherò! Senza contare le emozioni incredibili...
I adore Edita, and she's done amazing work playing Lucrezia. She must have been devastated, though, that she was in such poor voice, knowing this date was being filmed for DVD. Watching her botch the high note at the end, she looked furious at herself - perhaps not only because she was in character.
Edita was great in Dresden!!! Only "Era desso" was a little problem again, it is just not her aria... but the rest great and also Bros was great, like a contest. who can sing louder...
sorry. she must have been one of most predominent coloratura singers till late 80's,
but evidently no more now. and it's really ridiculous that how someone critisize devia for not being good at BEL CANTO! whether someone like gruberova or not devia is the definition of that genre(not only in nowadays but also in all times(at least the same level with sopranos so-called golden age. of course i like gruberova too, especially her i puritani. but not lucrezia!
Breslik is quite good and easy on the eyes. If its one thing the death of bel canto has brought is a lot of older leading ladies and hunky young tenors. I'm not really sure why but its a kick.
It's clips like these of past-their-prime sopranos making weird faces, with horrible techniques and AWFUL "updated" sets and costumes that really make me miss Sutherland. :(
Slip-sliding to the shrieked and flat final note. Gruberova stayed too long at the fair and though she sang Mozart and Strauss beautifully for many years was not a bel canto soprano.
Gruberova was ill during this performances, the cancelled all performances after this (for example a Don Giovanni in Verbier). I heard her four times live in Lucrezia and must say, that this was worst performances I ever heard from her. So I think its not fair, to judge a singer from only this one bad performance....
La Gruberova canta il Donizetti drammatico come se fosse un' opera verista, e il risultato è involontariamente comico. E' incredibile come un'eccelsa belcantista come lei riesca nonostante tutto a rovinare un'opera simile: parlati, urla, sbuffi, mani che si muovono come se fosse una pupazza! Mah....
Ok this performance is not that good. But she is just Edita and I think she doesn't have to prove anything to anyone. And she is like the rest of us: she's getting old!!!... It's a miracle she is still able to sing it.
I would go if I could even though I couldn't hear better than this, because it's her and soon she won't be on stage anymore. Her skills remain so impressive !
I am not sure I agree 100%. She performed the role in concert in Spain and she was magnificent judging from the clips of that concert that have been posted on YouTube. I think this performance is compromised, but I would not judge her Lucrezia based only on this performance.
I hope ur right! I will see her live as Lucrezia in Dresden in June and hope it will be better than this.... Until now Edita never disappointed me live!
@operapassion I've seen her last september in this role. She was absolutely perfect!! A great Lucrezia, perhaps the greatest, I can tell you. I'm sure you will enjoy the concert, and forget this poor video!!
@operapassion Disagree! She sang the earlier parts of the opera with such soul and tenderness and with dramatic power when required, I simply find it difficult to warm up to other interpretations. It is regrettable that the ending was the weakest link but one should still hats-off for the level of indomitable endurance she has shown for her age. It is understandable, given that this is a live staging of the production at its climatic end!
EDITA sei stata la numero uno.ORA BASTA però!!! quello che hai fatto ci basta....Sia ad esempio la Sutherland che ad un certo punto ha lasciato...
Edita fallo anche te per tutti quelli che ti hanno amato e sempre ti ameranno!!!Lasciaci un bel ricordo...questo ascolto è orrendo....tutte urla.....mi fa piangere sentirti cosi ridotta....
@eradesso Non devo farti nessun piacere, poiché l'ho vista dal vivo a settembre ed è stata assolutamente perfetta. Incredibile! Mai vista tanta bravura. Probabilmente quando hanno girato il DVD non era in serata, può capitare. Quella sera ero partito "prevenuto", terrorizzato dall'idea di trovare una cantante agli sgoccioli, ma poi mi sono assolutamente ricreduto.
It's a toss-up as to which was worse: her singing or the staging. The only good thing about Gruberova's performance were her trills. Poor Donizetti must be turning over in his grave. Quanto ci dispiace Maestro ...scusateci
C'est PATHETIQUE, GROTESQUE, vocalement et stylistiquemeent: des graves affreux et un aigu final à glacer le sang. Comment cette grande artiste peut-elle s'obstiner dans ce répertoire??
Pathétique et grotesque! involontairement vous caractérisez parfaitement le personnage incarné... Gruberova ne fait que le chanter en ce sens. Des versions moins 'trash", plus justes(au sens hauteur des sons), plus "classe", plus jeunes...éxistent qui sont parfois admirables (Gencer, Sutherland, Devia, Caballe...). Assument-elles la trivialité sans retenue de Lucrezia Borgia? bien que je les admire également;
@BEVER29 Merci de votre réponse. Mais je ne parlais hélas pas du personnage mais de l'interprêtation. Le bel canto c'est quand même u style et je dis cela d'autant plus volontiers que j'ai ADORE Gruberova. mais là, basta!!
Inutile sans doute de polémiquer plus avant même si écrivant "involontairement" j'imaginais être clair sur la compréhension que j'avais de vôtre propos. Pour ce qui est du "belcanto" le terme est trop générique pour lui associer un style défini. Concernant Donizetti il vaut mieux parler de chant romantique italien avec sa part de théatralité outrancière(loin de Caldara!) ce qu'assume, sans être idiomatique, Grubérova.
Ce qu'elle fait n'est pas "beau" et n'a pas à l'être!
I have no issues with Grubie's age...she sings very well for a woman her age...better than a lot. However, I have more problems with the sounds she produces...and that goes back to before she was 63. The swoopies to nothing pianissimos is getting very old. What was with those horrible throat sounds in the lower reaches? And she should give up the Ebs...she may be able to hit them, but that last note was not the first thing I wanted in my mind at the end of the opera.
i dont know about that...if you listen to some of her stuff from even like, a year or two before this she still sounded pretty good, i dont know what happened to her
Che strazio, non si può né sentire, né vedere! Essendo arrivata a 64 anni in queste condizioni vocali sarebbe il caso che lasciasse il teatro dell'opera. Risparmiaci cara Edita Gruberova.
People will say what they will about her musical/vocal choices -- but at least she's making choices. That's what's called being interesting, making a choice, building a character, being an artist.
What an innovative productive! This tenor instantly grabs me! What a beautiful instrument! And so musical! Listen to those choices in dynamics -- then his choices in his performing! So committed!
It's impossible to clap one's hands for this performance: those "sul suo capo avventi" are the most bloodcurdling notes I've ever heard in all my life.
I don't understand this primadonna's attitude: when you're no longer in a position to sing correctly, just stop singing.
I wonder what would you all think if Adriano Panatta (60 years old) decided to challenge Federer on a tennis tournament... First of all, he would never dare. Secondly, if he did, he would be treated as a fool.
I'd never slag off Gruberova because she's great, but I definitely would the director of this. I must say that in my opinion, this production is ridiculous. What is it with so many opera directors nowadays putting great singers in implausible productions which distract from the beauty of the music and sort of screw up the entire plot and it's time-setting? It's such a pity. Seemingly, it has much to do with houses trying to "attract the younger crowd", but I'm young and it just irritates me.
it's more than her age. her voice was too lyric for this role to begin with. her pianissimos are great though, but that goes along with her voice being more lyric.
shes 62, not quite "nearly 70." Although her high notes sound better than sutherland's did at her age (joan was having whole acts of operas transposed down into lower keys for her by this point), the low notes are gone. I think thats kind of interesting, most aging singers lose the top before the bottom, perhaps its a testament to how high her voice naturally sits. that Eb was pretty bad, yes its impressive that she can physically do that at her age, but why leave that taste in peoples mouth?
Sutherland's E-flats sounded much better than Gruberovas until Joan was 60. Then she just stopped singing them. And yes, it is amazing that Gruberova has the courage to attempt the E-flat, but all the same, if it's literally painful to hear some of the notes, either retire or transpose.
This is fantastic! she is not young anymore, but the maturity she shows as an artist and a musician is absolutely amazing! her acting is so powerful! a mother who has lost a son should not sound so perfect and beautiful anyways! I absolutely love it as a package!
I really do like this production , i appreciate Gruberova a lot, but thiq comes a bit late... and one thing that I do not understand is : whe Christine Weidinger did'nt have the bigger career ibn this repertoire, she was so muchapproriate than EG?
5:49 Qui potete ascoltare le note gravi completamente in petto e sfiatate; 6:15 suoni fissi e stonati; 7:28 "Sul mio capo" sfiatato e in petto, tutto sfibrato inoltre. E per concludere il suo mi bemolle fisso 8:24 O_o
1)Allora... Non capisco cosa c'è di male nel parlare di note di petto, cioè le note più gravi dell'estensione di una voce femminile SONO IN REGISTRO DI PETTO, in questo caso stiamo parlando di Sibemolle2 che sono le note più gravi che un soprano può toccare, se ci arriva. In realtà sullo spartito la scelta è tra il Sib2 e il Sib3, perché lei scelga proprio il primo non si sa viste le "difficoltà" con le note gravi, forse per dar maggior drammaticità alla frase.
1)Premettiamo subito caro Diego che non sono uno sprovveduto, in quanto studio da tempo la musica e la tecnica del canto colto. Il soprano scende ben oltre il sibem2, toccando anche il Sol2, ed inoltre osservando la partitura come mi suggerisci tu, si evince che Lucrezia è un ruolo da lirico dagilità, categoria a cui non appartiene la Gruberova.
Assolutamente no! Il mezzo soprano tocca il sol2, il soprano no! Eccezione: la Callas che comunque non andava al di sotto del sol#2 e che, in ogni caso, resta un caso a parte, poiché cantava anche parti del repertorio operistico da mezzosoprano. Nel repertorio operistico del soprano raramente si va sotto al Do3, comunque in Lucrezia Borgia la nota più grave è appunnto il Do3 e il Sib2 è facoltativo.
2)Se ascolti il video che ho pubblicato io di lei che canta la stessa aria un anno prima a Barcellona la scelta esecutiva puntava al Sib3 e non al Sib2, ma quella era una versione "concerto" dell'opera, per cui la precisione esecutiva veniva sicuramente prima della precisione interpretativa. Spero di averti chiarito un po' il tuo dubbio sul registro di petto... Poi, se vuoi parlare del fatto che le note gravi manchino un po' di corposità, quello è tutto un altro discorso....
Quando si parla di registro petto ci si riferisce nella prassi dellopera ad un enfasi di emissione che predilige la consonanza di petto-laringe che conferisce drammaticità alla frase, tuttavia è necessario ESSERE IN GRADO di emettere note in petto sul fiato, e non sbragate e sfibrate come fa la Gruberova nel video.
Ti posso dar ragione su questo, pienamente, però non venirmi a scrivere che canta in petto come se fosse un difetto, Canta in petto perché il registro lo richiede, poi, ovviamente, essendo un soprano leggero con voce eccezionalmente corposa nelle tessiture più acute, questa corposità viene a mancare quando si scende sotto il Fa3, per cui hai sicuramente ragione.
Inoltre, va bene che l'opera dal punto di vista della tessitura sia per lirico d'agilità, però ciò non toglie che un qualsiasi soprano in grado di eseguire degnamente il canto d'agillità possa cimentarsi nel ruolo di Lucrezia: non esiste più ormai questa prassi di far eseguire le opere solo alle categorie di cantanti le cui tessiture si trovano nel registro più comodo, è palese ai giorni nostri in cui parti da soprano e/o contralto sono assegnate a mezzi
Settimana scorsa l'ho vista dal vivo a Monaco, ti posso garantire che a confronto di ciò che ho visto là, la Gruberova di questo video sembra tutta un'altra persona: le note gravi non risultano essere così sfibrate come dici tu e come sicuramente questo video con qualità audio non proprio eccellente cerca di dimostrare: inganna molto infatti, te lo assicuro.
Detto ciò concordo sul fatto che la Devia sia un prodigio (aggiungo tutto italiano) di tecnica vocale, ma solo questa...
Ultima cosa:di sicuro la qualità esecutiva dell'aria finale poteva esser migliorata, ne sono convinto.
Il problema non credo sia quello che lei NON RIESCA A CANTARE MEGLIO, piuttosto HA DECISO DI CANTARE IN QUESTO MODO per incrementare l'effetto drammatico del finale atroce.Ti assicuro che dal vivo fa tutto un altro effetto,metter qui un video ha poco senso, ha più senso vedere le cose per intero e in teatro. Se dovesse decidere di registrare ci lascerebbe una versione esecutivamente migliore
3)Non capisco come puoi parlare di suoni stonati a 6:15, visto che è un'aggiunta A PIACERE di note acute emesse in pianissimo/piano.
Sulla base di cosa tu dici che sono stonate? Dove sta l'ipotetico spartito su cui tu leggi questa aggiunta?? Risposta: non esiste, torno a dirti va a discrezione del soprano decidere quali e quante note cantare in quel passo dell'aria.
4)Si crea un po' di ambiguità quando parli di note fisse... cosa significa nota fissa per te? Da quello che posso intuire tu ti riferisci al fatto che alcuni suoni NON sono emessi in VIBRATO.
Il fatto che il vibrato manchi, non vuol dire che il canto è ingolato, la voce è deteriorata o la cantante è incapace.
Anzi, tutt'altro mio caro: il vibrato va considerato positivamente quando arricchisce e abbellisce la sonorità di una voce...
5) Infatti, alcuni tipi di vibrato sono indice di voce stanca o tecnica vocale inappropriata, tanto è vero che alcuni maestri di canto e alcuni cantanti giudicano il vibrato in modo negativo arrivando anche a ritenerlo dannoso. I cantanti migliori (esempio Gruberova) sono in grado di controllare perfettamente il loro vibrato e lo usano A LORO DISCREZIONE, per accentuare certe parole o frasi per rendere meglio l'effetto drammatico/emozionale, come in questo caso.
Morale della favola: il tuo commento scaturisce da un paragone che probabilmente hai fatto con la stessa aria cantata da Sutherland o Devia, penso di quest'ultima, la quale (a mio parere) canta con un vibrato che è troppo tremolante e insopportabile. Per cui note fisse non ce ne sono. Risultato: l'aria è monotona e cantilenante! Non dà certo l'effetto drammatico che la scenda richiede.
Potrei dire quasi lo stesso per la Sutherland ma i difetti in quel caso sono molti di più.
Quando voglio giudicare l'esibizione di un cantante mi prendo in mano lo spartito, leggo la musica e confronto con quello che le mie orecchie sentono. Poi giudico e scrivo su youtube: non mi limito meramente a prendere video o esibizioni di cantanti diverse per compararli tra loro, perché la cosa non si può fare!
E ricorda un'altra cosa: sullo spartito non ci sono solo le note, ma anche il modo in cui il canto deve essere eseguito!
There is an other version of 'era desso' from this Munich production where the final high note sounds really better ! Of course, the best was last year in Barcelona. I hope we will be able to get in a further cd, the really best version of Gruberova.
Frankly, I don't understand people who want absolutely to put in competion Gruberova, Devia, or Anderson ... or Sutherland and Caballé. All of them are great artists, to consider with respect and love.
Mioddììììooo! Penosa! Se solo si limitasse a cantare (cosa che sa fare benissimo, peraltro) la sua Lucrezia non sarebbe quell'imbarazzante miniera di orrori sonori e di cattivo gusto che invece è!
It must be very difficult vor italian opera lovers to accept that there was no great belcanto-singer from italy in the last 60 years: Maria Callas was greek, Caballe from spain, Sutherland from Australia, Gencer from Turkey,Gruberova from Slovak, Anderson from the USA, Dessay from France. That could be a reason, why there is a hype about such a mediocre singer like Devia: Because she is italian!
OK, enough with the Devia hating. Devia is a magnificent singer and like Gruberoba, had her limits.
Of all the current singers, Devia is the most consistent and with a carrer just as long as Gruberoba. I would dare to say that in certain aspects, she has surpassed Gruberoba in the fact that she was able to truly sing legato lines without scooping and without distorting the pitch. She was also much better in her use of portamento and her coloratura technique is a lot smoother that Gruberoba.
I understand, subjectivity and subtlety are things hard to understand in any country or culture as well as acting from inside out like Devia's. Most people like the bouncing around better. Regarding vocal technique, isn't it supposed to be something important in opera?
Well, if you like bouncing around try Leonid Sarafanov in Don Quixote from the Maryinsky, he can bounce while turning and spliting the legs in the air.
I like Gruberova, but not in this, and please don't bash Devia.
It's funny how people hear different things when they listen to music. I can find nothing mediocre about Devia - only sublime excellence - but I suppose opinions are formed purely upon subjectivity and personal taste. Though I still don't understand how anyone could listen to something like her Lucrezia Borgia for example, and find the word "mediocre" springing to mind.
If an critic like John B. Steane, who wrote the "bible" of opera-singing-history "The grand tradition", wrote that Gruberovas Norma is in the same class,like Callas, that judging derives not from personal taste, but from the fact, that he know much more than the most amateur listeners about singing.The most famous german opera-critic Kesting also writes this about Gruberovas. This guys had studied music, opera-history and thousands of recordings-they are specialist, not just opera-lovers!
I won't doubt you. I don't agree. I do not see Gruberoba's Norma as being in the same caliber of Callas mainly because Gruberoba's tone is not as round and plush and because her coloratura technique, wonderful as it is, is closer to Deutekom's than to the Italian ideal.
"And this is where you might be wrong. In most places, critics are not trained musicians but trained reporters"
You are right! But thats the reason I spoke about the critics, who are not only reporters, but nearly scientist, because they studied music history, scores and old recordings. The are a few: Jürgen Kesting and Jochaim Kaiser in germany, John B. Steane and Michael Scott in Great Britain, Andre Tubeuf in France. This are critics, who wrote many books and articles about singing!
"What is your point? Just because 1 critic invoke's Callas does not mean it is true"
RIGHT-But critics are different competent! To judge as a amateur just from the personal taste is one thing, and judging as real expert is another. If the most competent specialists judging in the same way, we have a good reason to trust that there judge is perhaps better founded than the judge of people, who are just "fans" or "hobby-critics".
And this is where you might be wrong. In most places, critics are not trained musicians but trained reporters. There's a difference. I'm not saying all critics aren't good, but we know when a critic is being paid to say good things and when (s)he's seeing things from an unbiased perspective.
I personally was never impressed with most of Gruberoba's bel canto outings. I didn't like her Lucia, Sonnambula, Elvira, & I didn't like her Borgia. I thought her Bolena, Stuarda & Elisabetta were superb.
I'm going to weight in on this whole Gruberoba vs Devia thing.
1. They both have virtues & defects. So screaming hatred at one while screaming love at the other won't make one less appealing & the other the 2nd coming of Callas.
2. Their voices are a matter of taste. I prefer Gruberoba in certain roles & Devia in others. This isn't the 40's discussion Callas vs Tebaldi in which sides must be taken.
3rd. Critics are useful, but they are 1 person's opinion & they are not immune to nationalism.
I don't hate Devia. I actually really enjoy her in Rossini where her technique and color fit quite well. I prefer Gruberova in this role. What really got me riled up was viafilodrammatici's utter lack of respect for other people's opinion. His arrogance made me perhaps overreact. Sorry to have cluttered your video with my arguments. Thanks for posting it!
"Gruberová sheds the years: a radiant Norma puts her in the Callas class"
(John Steane in Gramophone)
John Steane about Gruberovs recent Norma-recording. But of course (Fanfares: irony!) all this great critics have no education, no ears and taste what is "real" style and the art of singing. Also the public has no ears: Japan,Barcelona, London,Hamburg, Milan, Florence,Munich-the public gaves ovations from 20-60 minutes for vocal tricks,pitch problems and faulty singing..its just laughable
What is your point? Just because 1 critic invoke's Callas does not mean it is true.
A public's ovation can mean many things: Just rewards for a magnificent job is just one of them. I have been to performances where an ovation was given when it was clear that the audience had no idea how bad the performance had been.
Jürgen Kesting just published again his great work "The great singers" in 4 (!) books. He is the greatest german critic, wrote also a book about Callas and Pavarotti and nearly hundred articles about singing. In his oppinion critizice singers is a sience! I heard a lecture of him in Hamburg and asked him, why he had not included Devia in his book: He said, that he find her voice "white", nothing special and "provincial". He also said comparing Devia and Gruberova must be a joke...
One last word: I dont think that Edita Gruberova - over 40 years on stage - needs the ratings of some amateur opera critics. Vocal problems? I prefer reading reviews of the professionel opera critics like John B. Steane, Michael Scott or Jürgen Kesting. John B. Steane praises her recent DVD-recording of Norma a lot. Jürgen Kesting wrote recently, that Edita Gruberova still is one of the greatest vocal miracles of the last 40 years. Yes: education creates opinions!
Come on folks. Its clear that this last top-note wasn't her best. You can clearly see it in her eyes-she looks a little bid afraid! In the radio-broadcast she hold this note endless. Every singer has a "off-night" or a moment where something goes wrong. She is still in fantastic shape. Its also a legend, that in italy nobody likes her. She performed last year a sold out recital in La scala Milano and got a 30 minutes ovation. The audience went wild after her Beatrice di Tenda-encore!
In an interview she director of this Lucrezia Christoph Loy said,that he asked Gruberova to sing this "Era desso" in an ugly way and with some breaks, because she is going mad.Thats perhaps also a reason, why she sings this very different compared to her Barcelona performance.If she likes, she still can sing everything more beautiful like every other living soprano.I find this singing quit courageous and thrilling.If you like a sweat and brave voice in this music and no art, choose Devia.
I think the size and energy of the voice is a very important argument. Devia as I said before is a very good singer, but in my opinion Gruberova belongs to another class of singer. The voice is small sized, the timbre sounds in the same way the whole time, her piano is nothing compared to Gruberova. Also she never takes risks, as Gruberova often does. If she fails -like in this screamed last note- it doesn't ruin her singing. If you like a perfect e-flat listen to her Barcelona-performance.
The last note is actually meaningless in this context. It is all the rest that is a collection of tricks to mask vocal problems. Most of the high notes are badly reached because the pitch is faulty and the attacks not secure. The lower notes are breathy or pushed at best. The meowing is the result of what the 19th centuries singing coaches used to address as faulty portamento. And more than one timbre in the voice is evidence of a lacking evenness in singing. Sorry...
I must agree with that. She has a quit good technique, but nothing special. If Gruberova has a good day and sing the right part (Beatrice for example) she surpasses Devia in every case: the beauty of the legato, the crystal clear high notes, her unbelivable piano. She has much more power and cut the whole orchestra and chorus with her high notes. "Deleterious" ? Read the review of John B. Steane (one of the greatest critics) about Gruberovas Norma (in GRAMOPHONE).....he praises her a lot!
Well, I am great fan of hers. I agree - this cabaletta is not perfect, but she's 63!!!! And you SHOULD here the aria just before this clip - awesome singing!
I love Gruberova for about 25 years. I listened to her for the 1st time in, 89, she was more than great. I was in Munchen the 6th of july. She doesn't have the voice for Lucrezia but she was quite good. She high notes were really awful. The last one was more than awful. The last cabaletta was a non sens. Lucrezia is not Santuzza. How is it possible to have a such bad taste ? In this final aria, Devia, Anderson, Caballé and Sutherland have given the way to sing this music, no ?
In this video she is not perfect because she was ill but I saw her live in another performance and she was amazing in every respect. I liked also the regie except in some points. The really things that I did not like were the long grey whig and the staging. For all who love this wonderful opera of Donizetti's sung by this team (Edita Gruberova, Pavol Breslik, Alice Coote, Franco Vasallo) I recommend the entire opera under youtube looking for Lucrezia Borgia, Pavol Breslik 129 min
SiegmundOpera 1 month ago
"Magica, magica, magica ..."endlessly repeated and I agree with him. In his second comments he invites all the Gruberova's detractors (in my opinion extremely arrogant and in some cases also rough and ill-bred for their absolute lack of respect of the tastes of other people who are by them heavily offended, called idiot, stupid ecc) to save their time and efforts in writing critics to Edita which would not certainly change her fan's opinion about her.
SiegmundOpera 1 month ago
especially the Sutherland (edition 1972) but anyway, sincerly, I would pay a ticket ten times or even more only to listen to Lucrezia Borgia sung by Edita Gruberova and the other singers, the "grandioso" Pavel Breslik, the wonderful Alice Coote and Franco Vasallo. I liked also the chorus and the orchestra director.
An italian Gruberova's admirer (the Chiambretti) under another video wrote 2 comments. In the first one he simply says about Edita
SiegmundOpera 1 month ago
As another person said, there are young singers who sing with an awful voice (that sometimes sounds old with an ugly timbre) and poor acting. They should retire before Gruberova. And Edita will retire when she decides to do it and their fans will miss her immensely. So, please, the ones woh don't like her, see and listen to Lucrezia Borgia only sung by Sutherland, Devia, Weidinger,.... I am not a musical expert and as a profane i have heard all of them and I must say that I like them all,
SiegmundOpera 1 month ago
yo quiero un novio hermoso y que cante asi como Pavol Breslik!!!!! BELLO!!!
orejarota 3 months ago
Wenn sie sich am Ende die Perücke runter reißt und die Bühne verläßt, dann scheint es, als ob auch sie von dieser grusligen Inszenierung genug hat...
nikodemus7777 3 months ago
impeccable coloratura but her low register... BUT again, considering how old she is, I still love her :)
thomastmwc 3 months ago
Very strange vocally. Very different, but yet very talented and in its own way interesting!
trumansf 5 months ago
o dio!.......
YVRopera 5 months ago
Oberpeinlich!! Ich hab mich für dich geschämt, Edita!
jakeddu 5 months ago
Dio mio che pena! Perché si deve umiliare in questo modo?
AgoSacchi 7 months ago in playlist Opera 10
3:11 I couldn't stop laughing
MsExplodingapples 7 months ago
Another pretentious, arty-farty, European (German!) production! ... But CUDOS to the great Gruberova... one of the greats...... My only gripe is her constant sliding up to the Eb! ... even 20 years ago! ... Woman just attack the note directly
hayyu2008 7 months ago
ma la pensione no?
andreernestgretry 8 months ago
@andreernestgretry HAHAHA DAI NON SI DICONO CERTE COSE! LA GRUBEROVA E' UN MITO!
emilytransex 8 months ago
@emilytransex se canta il suo repertorio sì, altrimenti fa scempi, come in questo caso...
andreernestgretry 8 months ago
@andreernestgretry X ME LA GRUBEROVA E' PERFETTA IN QUESTI RUOLI ANKE VOCALMENTE... L UNICA COSA KE LEI IN QUEST ULTIMO DECENNIO DA UN INTERPRETAZIONE VERISTA CON SUONI STRANI SMORFIE ECC... MA NON SI PUO DIRE KE LA GRUBEROVA SIA AL DECLINO...ANZI..C E NE FOSSERO IN ITALIA ALLA SUA ETA'...X ME LEI E LA DEVIA SONO DUE MOSTRI SACRI DELLA LIRICA...
emilytransex 8 months ago
@emilytransex non ho detto che è in declino, seppur l'età c'è e si sente, e non metto in dubbio la sua tecnica vocale, ma la borgia NON è un suo ruolo, direi!
andreernestgretry 8 months ago
@emilytransex non ho detto che è in declino, seppur l'età c'è e si sente, e non metto in dubbio la sua tecnica vocale, ma la borgia NON è un suo ruolo, direi!
e, poi, aggiungo, mi sembra decisamente scorretto dare un'intepretazione verista ad un'opera d'estrazione ottocentesca, ti pare?
andreernestgretry 8 months ago
@andreernestgretry HAI ASSOLUTAMENTE RAGIONE... IO APPREZZO LA GRUBEROVA XKE HA DEDICATO TUTTA LA SUA VITA ALLA MUSICA...PER QUESTO E' UNA DIVA... IO ANCORA NON SONO RIUSCITA A SENTIRLA DAL VIVO... LEI HA CANTATO MOLTO COL MIO MAESTRO MAURIZIO PICCONI... C E LA FIGLIA DEL REGGIMENTO DI TUTTI E DUE QUA E OGNI VOLTA A LEZIONE SENTO PARLARE DELLA GRUBEROVA E DELLA SUA TECNICA ASSOLUTA. MAGARI ANKIO POTESSI CANTARE X 40 ANNI DI SEGUITO SENZA PERDERE LA VOCE...
emilytransex 8 months ago
let me see what you mean - if a singer goes out and sings badly at the age of 80 and sings a C6 for example that means she sings well? that we actually have to listen to that crap? what for?
LohengrinT 8 months ago
Horrible!!
elprimoespinosa 8 months ago
I'm a fan of Edita and I love her Lucrezia, but that last Eb...was not one of her good days...
violinistx100 9 months ago
Just fantastic!! She is not only a wonderful singer, but a true actress! Love it!
ilpianista89 9 months ago
Regarding the production of this particular Lucrezia ... sorry, but for me it has to be period costumes .... I hate all these pretentious/arty-farty.... (usually German/French) minimalist productions with modern dress!...YUK... and insult to the music..
hayyu2008 10 months ago
You see a great soprano or tenor, is great even when past her/his peak.... The respect they command and the command they have of their repertoire is what makes them great. Callas, Sutherland, Sills, Gencer, Caballe, Mesple, Devia, Anderson and Gruberova...each Bel Canto Royalty! These great women need to be the role-models of every aspiring coloratura!
hayyu2008 10 months ago
Without doubt one of the greatest Bel Canto sopranos .... Her early recordings of the three Queens!!! OMG amazing ... You have to admire the courage to sing such a huge role as Lucrezia at her age. She's obviously past her peak here, but the young generation need to learn from this GREAT woman ... It thrills me to hear the 'Bravas' whenever she electrifies her stage... which she OWNS! Repsect to you Edita ... pls give masterclasses!
hayyu2008 10 months ago
Edita Gruberova hat jetzt 64 jahren alt, für ein fraun mit 64 jahren alt sie bist toll und Edita hat ein junge stimme, hat vielle junge sänger und sängarinen in aktualität mit schlecht und alte stimme und für mich Edita bist ein DIVA immer, immer, immer.
Alexmeister25 10 months ago
Two very strange notes! No money for a hairdresser? I never did care for her vocal production. I know she is a great actress and certainly can sing all the notes and moreso, but ..... I guess it is a matter of taste then. But so many notes that sound more like train whistles.
ploplisphilin 10 months ago
Two very strange notes! No money for a hairdresser?
ploplisphilin 10 months ago
The production lacks taste, in my opinion. They could have accomplished so much more -- without sacrificing originality even.
It's interesting to compare how Gruberova's voice has aged compared with Sutherland at the same age: watch?v=XLjjIXUqiYk.
CaptFitzbattleaxe 11 months ago
But who is the wonderful tenor??
lornabegbie 1 year ago
@lornabegbie You only need to open the tab with the information and you will find who it is.
tenore23 1 year ago
@lornabegbie Pavol Breslik ! He is truly wonderful ! We really need and deserve a tenor like him !
lamsalgado 2 months ago
curieux sous pretexte de modernité certains metteurs en scène présentent des operas en vétements actuels et sans decor ce qui à mon humble avis est une
hérésie car les costumes d'époque et les décors contribuent grandement à la magie de l'opéra et constituent un écrin pour les chanteurs.
andrebontemp 1 year ago
I can surely tell she wasn't at her best in this clip :(
thomastmwc 1 year ago
Comment removed
fansclubnicolalecca 1 year ago
Dunque: io l'ho ascoltata nel 2008 al Liceu di Barcellona nello stesso ruolo ed è stata strepitosa.Ma era una rappresentazione in forma d'oratorio, il che vuol dire moltissimo: niente scena, niente fatica, niente trucchi, parrucche, cambi di vestito. Avevo la pelle d'oca. In questo video, invece, la voce è scadente. Nelle note basse addirittura imbarazzante. Motivi: calo di voce, fatica sul palco non più reggibile, giornata sfortunata. MI è dispiaciuto vederla in queste condizioni.
fansclubnicolalecca 1 year ago
@fansclubnicolalecca Io ho visto la performance dal vivo a Monaco il 25 settembre 2009... Beh, magari sarò stato particolarmente fortunato io ma è stata una serata formidabile! tutte le note a posto, la voce al top, e l'acuto finale PERFETTO che mai mi dimenticherò! Senza contare le emozioni incredibili...
DiegoMartinazzoli 1 year ago
agghiacciante
DICTISTU 1 year ago
I adore Edita, and she's done amazing work playing Lucrezia. She must have been devastated, though, that she was in such poor voice, knowing this date was being filmed for DVD. Watching her botch the high note at the end, she looked furious at herself - perhaps not only because she was in character.
gustopheles 1 year ago
I really like these singers but the staging is AWFUL!!!!!!!
chrisscruzzz 1 year ago
Ma quando scende diventa orribilmente caricaturale... sembra una raganella che si gonfia, ma perché l'ha cantata???
kulsho 1 year ago
the particular performance wasn't great, but the other's fine :)
thomastmwc 1 year ago
Edita was great in Dresden!!! Only "Era desso" was a little problem again, it is just not her aria... but the rest great and also Bros was great, like a contest. who can sing louder...
operapassion 1 year ago
sorry. she must have been one of most predominent coloratura singers till late 80's,
but evidently no more now. and it's really ridiculous that how someone critisize devia for not being good at BEL CANTO! whether someone like gruberova or not devia is the definition of that genre(not only in nowadays but also in all times(at least the same level with sopranos so-called golden age. of course i like gruberova too, especially her i puritani. but not lucrezia!
icylakepaxphile 1 year ago
Ha seri problemi soprattutto nel registro basso...ma perchè fa questi ruoli???
Sorrentodellesirene 1 year ago
Breslik is quite good and easy on the eyes. If its one thing the death of bel canto has brought is a lot of older leading ladies and hunky young tenors. I'm not really sure why but its a kick.
babydrane 1 year ago
OMG ... This is very bad
escamillo75 1 year ago
I'm sorry, but I don't like it... Please watch the version with Joan Sutherland!
ILoveJoanSutherland 1 year ago
@ILoveJoanSutherland Who is Joan Sutherland?! (sorry)
nikodemus7777 1 year ago
@nikodemus7777 a soprano.
SuperZorrolover 1 year ago
brava gruberovà!
Vincenzo2010an 1 year ago
It's clips like these of past-their-prime sopranos making weird faces, with horrible techniques and AWFUL "updated" sets and costumes that really make me miss Sutherland. :(
ChrisStockslager 1 year ago
Non capisco a cosa serve fare la voce da scaricatore di porto...
rossinianodoc 1 year ago
Slip-sliding to the shrieked and flat final note. Gruberova stayed too long at the fair and though she sang Mozart and Strauss beautifully for many years was not a bel canto soprano.
suryavarmanvii 1 year ago
Pavol Breslik is fantastic...but Im not sure this is right role for Guberova.
6sushi66 1 year ago
Davvero imbarazzante.
zarino78 1 year ago 5
Gruberova was ill during this performances, the cancelled all performances after this (for example a Don Giovanni in Verbier). I heard her four times live in Lucrezia and must say, that this was worst performances I ever heard from her. So I think its not fair, to judge a singer from only this one bad performance....
robertleicester 1 year ago 4
La Gruberova canta il Donizetti drammatico come se fosse un' opera verista, e il risultato è involontariamente comico. E' incredibile come un'eccelsa belcantista come lei riesca nonostante tutto a rovinare un'opera simile: parlati, urla, sbuffi, mani che si muovono come se fosse una pupazza! Mah....
leprincebeaumont 2 years ago
Comment removed
luwaig1 1 month ago
@leprincebeaumont lei non è stata mai Belcantista,lei ha una tecnica Tedesca che è tutt'altra cosa.
luwaig1 1 month ago
Ok this performance is not that good. But she is just Edita and I think she doesn't have to prove anything to anyone. And she is like the rest of us: she's getting old!!!... It's a miracle she is still able to sing it.
I would go if I could even though I couldn't hear better than this, because it's her and soon she won't be on stage anymore. Her skills remain so impressive !
corybante 2 years ago 2
Thank you for saying all of this on her! She deserves it.
Operalover77 1 year ago
I love Edita, but this is not her role!!! listen to Weidinger that's Borgia, Edita is Elvira, Lucia or Elisabetta
operapassion 2 years ago
I am not sure I agree 100%. She performed the role in concert in Spain and she was magnificent judging from the clips of that concert that have been posted on YouTube. I think this performance is compromised, but I would not judge her Lucrezia based only on this performance.
tenore23 2 years ago
@tenore23
I hope ur right! I will see her live as Lucrezia in Dresden in June and hope it will be better than this.... Until now Edita never disappointed me live!
operapassion 2 years ago
Well, i hope you report back to us.
tenore23 2 years ago
@operapassion I've seen her last september in this role. She was absolutely perfect!! A great Lucrezia, perhaps the greatest, I can tell you. I'm sure you will enjoy the concert, and forget this poor video!!
DiegoMartinazzoli 1 year ago
@operapassion
Joan Sutherland!
ILoveJoanSutherland 1 year ago
@operapassion Disagree! She sang the earlier parts of the opera with such soul and tenderness and with dramatic power when required, I simply find it difficult to warm up to other interpretations. It is regrettable that the ending was the weakest link but one should still hats-off for the level of indomitable endurance she has shown for her age. It is understandable, given that this is a live staging of the production at its climatic end!
MonsieurDarcy 1 year ago
this version is indeed horrible, but the there's another that is super great
thomastmwc 2 years ago
E' UN LAMENTO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
EDITA sei stata la numero uno.ORA BASTA però!!! quello che hai fatto ci basta....Sia ad esempio la Sutherland che ad un certo punto ha lasciato...
Edita fallo anche te per tutti quelli che ti hanno amato e sempre ti ameranno!!!Lasciaci un bel ricordo...questo ascolto è orrendo....tutte urla.....mi fa piangere sentirti cosi ridotta....
AAGMR 2 years ago
Concordo. Si sentono tutti i limiti di una voce ormai non più fruibile in teatro.
Richarzh 2 years ago
Vai a vederla dal vivo, poi ne riparliamo. Questa scena su youtube non rappresenta quella che è la realtà. te lo assicuro.
DiegoMartinazzoli 2 years ago
Si certo, è youtube che per dispetto la fa suonare come un rottame! ma facci il piacere!
la morte del bel canto, che si ritiri questa ormai vecchia afona
eradesso 2 years ago
@eradesso Non devo farti nessun piacere, poiché l'ho vista dal vivo a settembre ed è stata assolutamente perfetta. Incredibile! Mai vista tanta bravura. Probabilmente quando hanno girato il DVD non era in serata, può capitare. Quella sera ero partito "prevenuto", terrorizzato dall'idea di trovare una cantante agli sgoccioli, ma poi mi sono assolutamente ricreduto.
DiegoMartinazzoli 1 year ago
It's a toss-up as to which was worse: her singing or the staging. The only good thing about Gruberova's performance were her trills. Poor Donizetti must be turning over in his grave. Quanto ci dispiace Maestro ...scusateci
JoanNilson 2 years ago
Oh no he got shot late, after his soo called his death. He's cute. Someone give me his number.
lty2k84 2 years ago
he is cute
skitzo429 2 years ago
Navré pour le grand talent de Gruberova, mais c'est GROTESQUE, INDIGNE
opera75frfr 2 years ago 2
C'est PATHETIQUE, GROTESQUE, vocalement et stylistiquemeent: des graves affreux et un aigu final à glacer le sang. Comment cette grande artiste peut-elle s'obstiner dans ce répertoire??
opera75frfr 2 years ago 2
@opera75frfr
Pathétique et grotesque! involontairement vous caractérisez parfaitement le personnage incarné... Gruberova ne fait que le chanter en ce sens. Des versions moins 'trash", plus justes(au sens hauteur des sons), plus "classe", plus jeunes...éxistent qui sont parfois admirables (Gencer, Sutherland, Devia, Caballe...). Assument-elles la trivialité sans retenue de Lucrezia Borgia? bien que je les admire également;
je ne le crois pas.
BEVER29 1 year ago
@BEVER29 Merci de votre réponse. Mais je ne parlais hélas pas du personnage mais de l'interprêtation. Le bel canto c'est quand même u style et je dis cela d'autant plus volontiers que j'ai ADORE Gruberova. mais là, basta!!
opera75frfr 1 year ago
@opera75frfr
Inutile sans doute de polémiquer plus avant même si écrivant "involontairement" j'imaginais être clair sur la compréhension que j'avais de vôtre propos. Pour ce qui est du "belcanto" le terme est trop générique pour lui associer un style défini. Concernant Donizetti il vaut mieux parler de chant romantique italien avec sa part de théatralité outrancière(loin de Caldara!) ce qu'assume, sans être idiomatique, Grubérova.
Ce qu'elle fait n'est pas "beau" et n'a pas à l'être!
BEVER29 1 year ago
@BEVER29
opera75frfr 1 year ago
I have no issues with Grubie's age...she sings very well for a woman her age...better than a lot. However, I have more problems with the sounds she produces...and that goes back to before she was 63. The swoopies to nothing pianissimos is getting very old. What was with those horrible throat sounds in the lower reaches? And she should give up the Ebs...she may be able to hit them, but that last note was not the first thing I wanted in my mind at the end of the opera.
brolobear 2 years ago
This is not the role for a diva who is close to retirement to be singing .... 10 years ago would have sounded much better
hayyu2008 2 years ago
i dont know about that...if you listen to some of her stuff from even like, a year or two before this she still sounded pretty good, i dont know what happened to her
skitzo429 2 years ago
Ella muor! (se continua così direi proprio di sì!!!)
jovi1715 2 years ago 2
Che strazio, non si può né sentire, né vedere! Essendo arrivata a 64 anni in queste condizioni vocali sarebbe il caso che lasciasse il teatro dell'opera. Risparmiaci cara Edita Gruberova.
Richarzh 2 years ago
Ma che cazzo di voce fa?! Dai...
rossinianodoc 2 years ago
BRAVA!
TheTheArtOfMusic 2 years ago 2
BRAVA! Such intensity, such drama, such feeling, such emotion!!! GRUBEROVA IS THE BEST! BRAVISSIMA!!!
TheTheArtOfMusic 2 years ago
Devia. (point à la ligne)
operaholic001 2 years ago
People will say what they will about her musical/vocal choices -- but at least she's making choices. That's what's called being interesting, making a choice, building a character, being an artist.
castodivo 2 years ago 6
What an innovative productive! This tenor instantly grabs me! What a beautiful instrument! And so musical! Listen to those choices in dynamics -- then his choices in his performing! So committed!
castodivo 2 years ago
Comment removed
asdfopera 2 years ago
It's impossible to clap one's hands for this performance: those "sul suo capo avventi" are the most bloodcurdling notes I've ever heard in all my life.
I don't understand this primadonna's attitude: when you're no longer in a position to sing correctly, just stop singing.
I wonder what would you all think if Adriano Panatta (60 years old) decided to challenge Federer on a tennis tournament... First of all, he would never dare. Secondly, if he did, he would be treated as a fool.
giant469 2 years ago
I'd never slag off Gruberova because she's great, but I definitely would the director of this. I must say that in my opinion, this production is ridiculous. What is it with so many opera directors nowadays putting great singers in implausible productions which distract from the beauty of the music and sort of screw up the entire plot and it's time-setting? It's such a pity. Seemingly, it has much to do with houses trying to "attract the younger crowd", but I'm young and it just irritates me.
21Sofya 2 years ago
it's more than her age. her voice was too lyric for this role to begin with. her pianissimos are great though, but that goes along with her voice being more lyric.
raigekimaru 2 years ago
shes 62, not quite "nearly 70." Although her high notes sound better than sutherland's did at her age (joan was having whole acts of operas transposed down into lower keys for her by this point), the low notes are gone. I think thats kind of interesting, most aging singers lose the top before the bottom, perhaps its a testament to how high her voice naturally sits. that Eb was pretty bad, yes its impressive that she can physically do that at her age, but why leave that taste in peoples mouth?
skitzo429 2 years ago
Sutherland's E-flats sounded much better than Gruberovas until Joan was 60. Then she just stopped singing them. And yes, it is amazing that Gruberova has the courage to attempt the E-flat, but all the same, if it's literally painful to hear some of the notes, either retire or transpose.
ChrisStockslager 2 years ago
...terribile.
oloferne84 2 years ago 9
Bravo Pavol Breslik!
babinesrouges 2 years ago 3
at this age...her low notes are GONE. But her high ones are still intact and unsurpassable. Very enjoyable performance overall. BRAVA!!
leoperarm 2 years ago
Um, what about that E-flat? I like her timbre a lot, but that E-flat is just as wobbly as Callas' last ones, if not a little moreso.
ChrisStockslager 2 years ago
I like it, but respect your opinion.
leoperarm 2 years ago
This is fantastic! she is not young anymore, but the maturity she shows as an artist and a musician is absolutely amazing! her acting is so powerful! a mother who has lost a son should not sound so perfect and beautiful anyways! I absolutely love it as a package!
Houman22 2 years ago
and : her age isn't an excuse. Better to have regrets she did NOT to sing a part than to haveregrets she did!!
wotansings 2 years ago
I really do like this production , i appreciate Gruberova a lot, but thiq comes a bit late... and one thing that I do not understand is : whe Christine Weidinger did'nt have the bigger career ibn this repertoire, she was so muchapproriate than EG?
wotansings 2 years ago
5:49 Qui potete ascoltare le note gravi completamente in petto e sfiatate; 6:15 suoni fissi e stonati; 7:28 "Sul mio capo" sfiatato e in petto, tutto sfibrato inoltre. E per concludere il suo mi bemolle fisso 8:24 O_o
Richarzh 2 years ago
1)Allora... Non capisco cosa c'è di male nel parlare di note di petto, cioè le note più gravi dell'estensione di una voce femminile SONO IN REGISTRO DI PETTO, in questo caso stiamo parlando di Sibemolle2 che sono le note più gravi che un soprano può toccare, se ci arriva. In realtà sullo spartito la scelta è tra il Sib2 e il Sib3, perché lei scelga proprio il primo non si sa viste le "difficoltà" con le note gravi, forse per dar maggior drammaticità alla frase.
DiegoMartinazzoli 2 years ago
1)Premettiamo subito caro Diego che non sono uno sprovveduto, in quanto studio da tempo la musica e la tecnica del canto colto. Il soprano scende ben oltre il sibem2, toccando anche il Sol2, ed inoltre osservando la partitura come mi suggerisci tu, si evince che Lucrezia è un ruolo da lirico dagilità, categoria a cui non appartiene la Gruberova.
Richarzh 2 years ago
Assolutamente no! Il mezzo soprano tocca il sol2, il soprano no! Eccezione: la Callas che comunque non andava al di sotto del sol#2 e che, in ogni caso, resta un caso a parte, poiché cantava anche parti del repertorio operistico da mezzosoprano. Nel repertorio operistico del soprano raramente si va sotto al Do3, comunque in Lucrezia Borgia la nota più grave è appunnto il Do3 e il Sib2 è facoltativo.
DiegoMartinazzoli 2 years ago
2)Se ascolti il video che ho pubblicato io di lei che canta la stessa aria un anno prima a Barcellona la scelta esecutiva puntava al Sib3 e non al Sib2, ma quella era una versione "concerto" dell'opera, per cui la precisione esecutiva veniva sicuramente prima della precisione interpretativa. Spero di averti chiarito un po' il tuo dubbio sul registro di petto... Poi, se vuoi parlare del fatto che le note gravi manchino un po' di corposità, quello è tutto un altro discorso....
DiegoMartinazzoli 2 years ago
Quando si parla di registro petto ci si riferisce nella prassi dellopera ad un enfasi di emissione che predilige la consonanza di petto-laringe che conferisce drammaticità alla frase, tuttavia è necessario ESSERE IN GRADO di emettere note in petto sul fiato, e non sbragate e sfibrate come fa la Gruberova nel video.
Richarzh 2 years ago
Ti posso dar ragione su questo, pienamente, però non venirmi a scrivere che canta in petto come se fosse un difetto, Canta in petto perché il registro lo richiede, poi, ovviamente, essendo un soprano leggero con voce eccezionalmente corposa nelle tessiture più acute, questa corposità viene a mancare quando si scende sotto il Fa3, per cui hai sicuramente ragione.
DiegoMartinazzoli 2 years ago
Inoltre, va bene che l'opera dal punto di vista della tessitura sia per lirico d'agilità, però ciò non toglie che un qualsiasi soprano in grado di eseguire degnamente il canto d'agillità possa cimentarsi nel ruolo di Lucrezia: non esiste più ormai questa prassi di far eseguire le opere solo alle categorie di cantanti le cui tessiture si trovano nel registro più comodo, è palese ai giorni nostri in cui parti da soprano e/o contralto sono assegnate a mezzi
DiegoMartinazzoli 2 years ago
Settimana scorsa l'ho vista dal vivo a Monaco, ti posso garantire che a confronto di ciò che ho visto là, la Gruberova di questo video sembra tutta un'altra persona: le note gravi non risultano essere così sfibrate come dici tu e come sicuramente questo video con qualità audio non proprio eccellente cerca di dimostrare: inganna molto infatti, te lo assicuro.
Detto ciò concordo sul fatto che la Devia sia un prodigio (aggiungo tutto italiano) di tecnica vocale, ma solo questa...
DiegoMartinazzoli 2 years ago
Ultima cosa:di sicuro la qualità esecutiva dell'aria finale poteva esser migliorata, ne sono convinto.
Il problema non credo sia quello che lei NON RIESCA A CANTARE MEGLIO, piuttosto HA DECISO DI CANTARE IN QUESTO MODO per incrementare l'effetto drammatico del finale atroce.Ti assicuro che dal vivo fa tutto un altro effetto,metter qui un video ha poco senso, ha più senso vedere le cose per intero e in teatro. Se dovesse decidere di registrare ci lascerebbe una versione esecutivamente migliore
DiegoMartinazzoli 2 years ago
3)Non capisco come puoi parlare di suoni stonati a 6:15, visto che è un'aggiunta A PIACERE di note acute emesse in pianissimo/piano.
Sulla base di cosa tu dici che sono stonate? Dove sta l'ipotetico spartito su cui tu leggi questa aggiunta?? Risposta: non esiste, torno a dirti va a discrezione del soprano decidere quali e quante note cantare in quel passo dell'aria.
DiegoMartinazzoli 2 years ago
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Richarzh 2 years ago
4)Si crea un po' di ambiguità quando parli di note fisse... cosa significa nota fissa per te? Da quello che posso intuire tu ti riferisci al fatto che alcuni suoni NON sono emessi in VIBRATO.
Il fatto che il vibrato manchi, non vuol dire che il canto è ingolato, la voce è deteriorata o la cantante è incapace.
Anzi, tutt'altro mio caro: il vibrato va considerato positivamente quando arricchisce e abbellisce la sonorità di una voce...
DiegoMartinazzoli 2 years ago
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Richarzh 2 years ago
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DiegoMartinazzoli 2 years ago
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DiegoMartinazzoli 2 years ago
5) Infatti, alcuni tipi di vibrato sono indice di voce stanca o tecnica vocale inappropriata, tanto è vero che alcuni maestri di canto e alcuni cantanti giudicano il vibrato in modo negativo arrivando anche a ritenerlo dannoso. I cantanti migliori (esempio Gruberova) sono in grado di controllare perfettamente il loro vibrato e lo usano A LORO DISCREZIONE, per accentuare certe parole o frasi per rendere meglio l'effetto drammatico/emozionale, come in questo caso.
DiegoMartinazzoli 2 years ago
Morale della favola: il tuo commento scaturisce da un paragone che probabilmente hai fatto con la stessa aria cantata da Sutherland o Devia, penso di quest'ultima, la quale (a mio parere) canta con un vibrato che è troppo tremolante e insopportabile. Per cui note fisse non ce ne sono. Risultato: l'aria è monotona e cantilenante! Non dà certo l'effetto drammatico che la scenda richiede.
Potrei dire quasi lo stesso per la Sutherland ma i difetti in quel caso sono molti di più.
DiegoMartinazzoli 2 years ago
Quando voglio giudicare l'esibizione di un cantante mi prendo in mano lo spartito, leggo la musica e confronto con quello che le mie orecchie sentono. Poi giudico e scrivo su youtube: non mi limito meramente a prendere video o esibizioni di cantanti diverse per compararli tra loro, perché la cosa non si può fare!
E ricorda un'altra cosa: sullo spartito non ci sono solo le note, ma anche il modo in cui il canto deve essere eseguito!
DiegoMartinazzoli 2 years ago
Ma perché questi portamenti orribili? E le incursioni in petto? Aiuto!
Richarzh 2 years ago
There is an other version of 'era desso' from this Munich production where the final high note sounds really better ! Of course, the best was last year in Barcelona. I hope we will be able to get in a further cd, the really best version of Gruberova.
Frankly, I don't understand people who want absolutely to put in competion Gruberova, Devia, or Anderson ... or Sutherland and Caballé. All of them are great artists, to consider with respect and love.
fanofbelcanto 2 years ago
Mioddììììooo! Penosa! Se solo si limitasse a cantare (cosa che sa fare benissimo, peraltro) la sua Lucrezia non sarebbe quell'imbarazzante miniera di orrori sonori e di cattivo gusto che invece è!
leprincebeaumont 2 years ago
she is NOT nearly 70, but 61 - a big difference !!!
and this is just an AWFUL production in every respect
gestas60323 2 years ago
yes, the last high note is not very good, yes, the low register part sounds weird (dramatic performance? mayb, I reli dunno).
BUT, she's nearly 70. I respect her, and I love her.
thomastmwc 2 years ago
That was just awful! and that last note...
operara 2 years ago 3
It must be very difficult vor italian opera lovers to accept that there was no great belcanto-singer from italy in the last 60 years: Maria Callas was greek, Caballe from spain, Sutherland from Australia, Gencer from Turkey,Gruberova from Slovak, Anderson from the USA, Dessay from France. That could be a reason, why there is a hype about such a mediocre singer like Devia: Because she is italian!
TheMariaBorgia 2 years ago
OK, enough with the Devia hating. Devia is a magnificent singer and like Gruberoba, had her limits.
Of all the current singers, Devia is the most consistent and with a carrer just as long as Gruberoba. I would dare to say that in certain aspects, she has surpassed Gruberoba in the fact that she was able to truly sing legato lines without scooping and without distorting the pitch. She was also much better in her use of portamento and her coloratura technique is a lot smoother that Gruberoba.
tenore23 2 years ago 3
Have you just opened another account to support you own hatred for Devia? Pathetic!
viafilodrammatici 2 years ago
Devia is gd, Edita as well
thomastmwc 2 years ago
I'm Italian and I agree with you!!
Devia is a great technician, though her acting is totally lacking.
That's why I prefer a Gruberova in trouble with a low note rather than a precise Devia
DiegoMartinazzoli 2 years ago
I understand, subjectivity and subtlety are things hard to understand in any country or culture as well as acting from inside out like Devia's. Most people like the bouncing around better. Regarding vocal technique, isn't it supposed to be something important in opera?
Well, if you like bouncing around try Leonid Sarafanov in Don Quixote from the Maryinsky, he can bounce while turning and spliting the legs in the air.
I like Gruberova, but not in this, and please don't bash Devia.
adballet 2 years ago
@TheMariaBorgia
It's funny how people hear different things when they listen to music. I can find nothing mediocre about Devia - only sublime excellence - but I suppose opinions are formed purely upon subjectivity and personal taste. Though I still don't understand how anyone could listen to something like her Lucrezia Borgia for example, and find the word "mediocre" springing to mind.
21Sofya 2 years ago
Ma quanti ammiratori fanatici ha questa anziana che non ce n'è uno che uno che osi contestare questo scempio osceno?
alfillirico 2 years ago
Personalmente non trovo niente da contestare...
DiegoMartinazzoli 2 years ago
la Gruberova ha confuso Donizetti con la più becera prosa verista...
SE NON RIESCE PIU A CANTARE TUTTE LE NOTE perchè non si ritira e lascia un bel ricordo di quello che ha fatto?
AAGMR 2 years ago
If an critic like John B. Steane, who wrote the "bible" of opera-singing-history "The grand tradition", wrote that Gruberovas Norma is in the same class,like Callas, that judging derives not from personal taste, but from the fact, that he know much more than the most amateur listeners about singing.The most famous german opera-critic Kesting also writes this about Gruberovas. This guys had studied music, opera-history and thousands of recordings-they are specialist, not just opera-lovers!
robertleicester 2 years ago
I won't doubt you. I don't agree. I do not see Gruberoba's Norma as being in the same caliber of Callas mainly because Gruberoba's tone is not as round and plush and because her coloratura technique, wonderful as it is, is closer to Deutekom's than to the Italian ideal.
tenore23 2 years ago
"And this is where you might be wrong. In most places, critics are not trained musicians but trained reporters"
You are right! But thats the reason I spoke about the critics, who are not only reporters, but nearly scientist, because they studied music history, scores and old recordings. The are a few: Jürgen Kesting and Jochaim Kaiser in germany, John B. Steane and Michael Scott in Great Britain, Andre Tubeuf in France. This are critics, who wrote many books and articles about singing!
robertleicester 2 years ago
"What is your point? Just because 1 critic invoke's Callas does not mean it is true"
RIGHT-But critics are different competent! To judge as a amateur just from the personal taste is one thing, and judging as real expert is another. If the most competent specialists judging in the same way, we have a good reason to trust that there judge is perhaps better founded than the judge of people, who are just "fans" or "hobby-critics".
robertleicester 2 years ago
And this is where you might be wrong. In most places, critics are not trained musicians but trained reporters. There's a difference. I'm not saying all critics aren't good, but we know when a critic is being paid to say good things and when (s)he's seeing things from an unbiased perspective.
I personally was never impressed with most of Gruberoba's bel canto outings. I didn't like her Lucia, Sonnambula, Elvira, & I didn't like her Borgia. I thought her Bolena, Stuarda & Elisabetta were superb.
tenore23 2 years ago
I think tenore23 is right!
But I must say what robertleicester wrote is really interesting!
TheMariaBorgia 2 years ago
I'm going to weight in on this whole Gruberoba vs Devia thing.
1. They both have virtues & defects. So screaming hatred at one while screaming love at the other won't make one less appealing & the other the 2nd coming of Callas.
2. Their voices are a matter of taste. I prefer Gruberoba in certain roles & Devia in others. This isn't the 40's discussion Callas vs Tebaldi in which sides must be taken.
3rd. Critics are useful, but they are 1 person's opinion & they are not immune to nationalism.
tenore23 2 years ago
I don't hate Devia. I actually really enjoy her in Rossini where her technique and color fit quite well. I prefer Gruberova in this role. What really got me riled up was viafilodrammatici's utter lack of respect for other people's opinion. His arrogance made me perhaps overreact. Sorry to have cluttered your video with my arguments. Thanks for posting it!
Iareto 2 years ago
"Gruberová sheds the years: a radiant Norma puts her in the Callas class"
(John Steane in Gramophone)
John Steane about Gruberovs recent Norma-recording. But of course (Fanfares: irony!) all this great critics have no education, no ears and taste what is "real" style and the art of singing. Also the public has no ears: Japan,Barcelona, London,Hamburg, Milan, Florence,Munich-the public gaves ovations from 20-60 minutes for vocal tricks,pitch problems and faulty singing..its just laughable
robertleicester 2 years ago 3
What is your point? Just because 1 critic invoke's Callas does not mean it is true.
A public's ovation can mean many things: Just rewards for a magnificent job is just one of them. I have been to performances where an ovation was given when it was clear that the audience had no idea how bad the performance had been.
Ignorant people applaud just as loud.
tenore23 2 years ago
Jürgen Kesting just published again his great work "The great singers" in 4 (!) books. He is the greatest german critic, wrote also a book about Callas and Pavarotti and nearly hundred articles about singing. In his oppinion critizice singers is a sience! I heard a lecture of him in Hamburg and asked him, why he had not included Devia in his book: He said, that he find her voice "white", nothing special and "provincial". He also said comparing Devia and Gruberova must be a joke...
robertleicester 2 years ago 2
One last word: I dont think that Edita Gruberova - over 40 years on stage - needs the ratings of some amateur opera critics. Vocal problems? I prefer reading reviews of the professionel opera critics like John B. Steane, Michael Scott or Jürgen Kesting. John B. Steane praises her recent DVD-recording of Norma a lot. Jürgen Kesting wrote recently, that Edita Gruberova still is one of the greatest vocal miracles of the last 40 years. Yes: education creates opinions!
robertleicester 2 years ago
Come on folks. Its clear that this last top-note wasn't her best. You can clearly see it in her eyes-she looks a little bid afraid! In the radio-broadcast she hold this note endless. Every singer has a "off-night" or a moment where something goes wrong. She is still in fantastic shape. Its also a legend, that in italy nobody likes her. She performed last year a sold out recital in La scala Milano and got a 30 minutes ovation. The audience went wild after her Beatrice di Tenda-encore!
TheMariaBorgia 2 years ago 3
In an interview she director of this Lucrezia Christoph Loy said,that he asked Gruberova to sing this "Era desso" in an ugly way and with some breaks, because she is going mad.Thats perhaps also a reason, why she sings this very different compared to her Barcelona performance.If she likes, she still can sing everything more beautiful like every other living soprano.I find this singing quit courageous and thrilling.If you like a sweat and brave voice in this music and no art, choose Devia.
robertleicester 2 years ago 5
Completely agree!!
DiegoMartinazzoli 2 years ago
I think the size and energy of the voice is a very important argument. Devia as I said before is a very good singer, but in my opinion Gruberova belongs to another class of singer. The voice is small sized, the timbre sounds in the same way the whole time, her piano is nothing compared to Gruberova. Also she never takes risks, as Gruberova often does. If she fails -like in this screamed last note- it doesn't ruin her singing. If you like a perfect e-flat listen to her Barcelona-performance.
robertleicester 2 years ago
The last note is actually meaningless in this context. It is all the rest that is a collection of tricks to mask vocal problems. Most of the high notes are badly reached because the pitch is faulty and the attacks not secure. The lower notes are breathy or pushed at best. The meowing is the result of what the 19th centuries singing coaches used to address as faulty portamento. And more than one timbre in the voice is evidence of a lacking evenness in singing. Sorry...
viafilodrammatici 2 years ago
I must agree with that. She has a quit good technique, but nothing special. If Gruberova has a good day and sing the right part (Beatrice for example) she surpasses Devia in every case: the beauty of the legato, the crystal clear high notes, her unbelivable piano. She has much more power and cut the whole orchestra and chorus with her high notes. "Deleterious" ? Read the review of John B. Steane (one of the greatest critics) about Gruberovas Norma (in GRAMOPHONE).....he praises her a lot!
robertleicester 2 years ago
Well, I am great fan of hers. I agree - this cabaletta is not perfect, but she's 63!!!! And you SHOULD here the aria just before this clip - awesome singing!
MisterSoprano 2 years ago 2
I love Gruberova for about 25 years. I listened to her for the 1st time in, 89, she was more than great. I was in Munchen the 6th of july. She doesn't have the voice for Lucrezia but she was quite good. She high notes were really awful. The last one was more than awful. The last cabaletta was a non sens. Lucrezia is not Santuzza. How is it possible to have a such bad taste ? In this final aria, Devia, Anderson, Caballé and Sutherland have given the way to sing this music, no ?
falliero 2 years ago
C'est ignoble au dernier degré.
falliero 2 years ago