Thanks for responding. It seems fundamentalists are eager to point out they are no longer bound by many of the Hebrew laws since Christ's death represents a new covenant. Since Paul was down on "homosexuality" they are quick to throw that in your face, but I wondered if you could think of anything in the new testament even a fundamentalist doesn't follow through with. They seem to be stuck on the gay thing as if it's a hobby for them or something.
@chuckcordes Well, let me first tell you that they have an answer for everything. Granted, most of their answers are implausible nonsense, but there's nothing you can bring up that they won't try to justify. However, no Christian sells their possessions to the poor and lives an immaterial life, as Jesus instructs in Matthew 19:21. I also would still argue that no one follows Jesus' advice in Matthew 5:17-19, to keep even "the least" of the Old Testament commands.
I find it most interesting that Jesus condemns material wealth multiple times in multiple Gospels, but never says a word himself about homosexuality. Even if Jesus' new covenant will keep Newt Gingrich from burning in hell for adultery, he'll still burn in hell for his wealth. Gays should be fine, though.
Maybe you've answered this somewhere here and I missed it, but wasn't the "change" in old scripture laws at the point when Jesus died. The fulfillment was at that point when he died. I've been speaking with believes on the subject and going back to that particular point in time. Paul then continues to condemn homosexuals later in his visions.
@chuckcordes Some might claim that it was at the point he died, but that still doesn't seem to hold up under the verse's stipulation that the law would be in effect "until heaven and earth pass away."
I've had a number of Christians tell me that they take the Bible literally... just not the old testament. Can you think of any good examples in the new testament or direct me somewhere? Thanks.
Good work, most christian don't know nothing about bible. This different comes in bible coz Prist of church's remove orginal and replaced with fakery. They try to make Jesus God and leave many mistakes.
These videos are interesting and well put together, but I found one example that was 'out of context,' though I hate to use that common Christian complaint. In Mark 7: 9-10, Jesus scolds the Pharisees not because he wants them to put their children to death, but because the Pharisees were hypocrites and were complaining about Jesus not observing the old laws (in this case, eating and not washing beforehand). As a fellow atheist, I am merely trying to help, not scold. Thanks.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Why do you go to such lengths and set out to destroy what you don't understand? Do you not understand the purpose of the old testament? Do you not understand the purpose of the new testament? Thus the reason why Christ had to come and live as one of us and die for us.
@KevinJ1live Like so many arrogant Christians, you seem to think that only you and others who agree with you correctly understand the bible. The problem is that Christianity has hijacked Judaism, so odds are good that what you consider the "purpose" of the Old Testament is far from indisputable. The Old Testament is the chronicles of the ancient Hebrews, some myth, some history. It's as simple as that.
@KevinJ1live Your statements are an oddly ironic example of projection. Consider what happens when we flip them around: "KevinJ1live does not understand the purpose of the old testament. KevinJ1live does not understand the purpose of the new testament. Thus the reason why KevinJ1live believes that Christ had to come, to make sense of a bullshit and immoral belief system."
The sad thing about the "Bet on death" thing is it's applicable to breaking the law in the military. I love serving my country, but damn if it isn't like being a Christian again.
@TaylorX04 ehhh i don't think jebus is scolding the pharisees for not stoning children as much as he is scolding them for being inconsistent hypocrites. as you've pointed out, jebus breaks the OT commandments often or, at least, reinterprets them radically. in Mark 7, the pharisees and the scribes ask jebus why his disciples are eating with unclean hands (they probably had feces on their hands in the bronze age with no TP). point is, i don't think he's advocating the stoning of children here.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Faith in something good and bigger than oneself is a stabilizing force for many. We should believe that something better awaits. The truth of this world is best not known by many in their current state of development ie "You can't handle the truth". We are all pretenders and know in our heart of hearts that what we experience on Earth, is wrong. We were not made for this and we will never accept this as norm. Success of any kind often amplifies the inadequacy of this place.
Everyone can believe in something good and bigger than themselves if we take principles into account. But to think that a god qualifies, or that we should believe a better life awaits us after this one? That's taking it too far, in my opinion. That is when the line is crossed and we become pretenders to an ideal that is infinitely changing according to each person and era, yet which many believe to be absolute and unchanging.
The need for fairytales to help us through our days is a major sign of immaturity. It would be nice to believe in santa and the tooth fairy but I don't, it's not healthy.
It's sad that people become dependant on the crutch of faith.
Thats a challenge worthy of religionists everywhere. Try for 1 week to follow your sacred book to the the letter. No interpolations, or exceptions are allowed. If you've actually read your holy book, I shouldn't have to tell you this. Don't feel bad if you do not succeed. Christians and Muslims and Judaists, etc.must cherry pick their texts. Why?Because, if all the writers of the various books of thebible(to pick the most familar)were put in a room together,they would rip eachother to pieces.
I am going to sign off making comments here as I have too much else to do. I have enjoyed the exchange. It has been civil and decent. I would still encourage those of you who are Gay to commemorate the Holocaust in a bold and sober, and meaningful way. And to remember your own heroes of the past in a public, and sober way. Shaping the image that people have of you is still your responsibility, rather than just complaining of the way others do it because you do not. I am a heterosexual Christian,
(Continued - last part of quote) so too we shall in future come to see the sweep of many things to be quite contrary to what our current, puerile processes afford us -- Saint Isaac of Nineveh
(an ancient Orthodox Church Father -- they were not "literalists" and did not take all the stories seriously as they are told)
Excellent video 5 stars. Just to go a little further in the new testament Matthew 5: 17-20 Jesus says: "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." The old testament should be just fine with all Christians.
One problem with our Christian Fundamentalists: Over my 40 year of service in the Church, one thing is clear to me: Moral outrage is a form of confession, because we hate most in others what we fear most in ourselves.
Here is a suggestion. Ray Comfort falls back on 'Oh well there's the Moral Law and the Ceremonial Law and we don't have to keep the Ceremonial Law' Do you know anything about that? Ray never backs it up with anything.
That really doesn't excuse Ray from anything. Ceremonial law is stuff like avoiding unclean food, making sacrifices, and so forth. Moral law is pretty much everything I've listed in this video.
Yeah that's always the question, where in the bible does it define what is 'the moral law' and what is 'the ceremonial law'. Other than 'what I want it to be'.
Actually, I haven't gotten any responses to this new series yet. Oddly, they jumped on my "Free Will vs. Evil" video, but I guess these ones are little too scripturally sound for them to argue against. I have noticed some of them discover the videos pretty late too... you know, so they can post criticisms without everyone else seeing them and tearing them apart, lol.
Interesting tactic, are they really bottomless wells of dishonesty? But you can counter it - just make a short video directing people the one they are trying to attack. Since I'm subscribed I'd see it. But I suggest using tags like atheist, atheism to attract people too.
This is absolutely true. I'm an atheist and I asked a Christian (one of the few who are actually tolerant and not a fundamentalist idiot) if he knew all ten of the commandments. He knew about half of them. I listed all ten and he was impressed. I, then asked him, why do the extremists in his religion preach the ten commandments and they don't even know them. His response is that the fundamentalists are too caught up in worship and they probably have never even read the bible.
The average christian never thought about this. But when they ask their priest/vicar for the answer the average one is that 'Christ fulfilled the law' which according to their interpretation means that the law that God make Forever (OT) is suddenly revoked.
Even though Jesus backed the law, as your video shows.
Paul in the end of the NT totally turns the rules upside down for non-jews. Faith suddenly is more important than good deeds.
PS actually I'm mighty glad my parents did not kill me.
Our understanding of the "fulfilment of the Law and the Prophets" is that they could only be fulfilled by the rightiousness of co-suffering love, since ego, self-centredness and self-interest were the problems. I don't expect any of you to agree, but that is the Orthodox Christian understanding of it. The fulfilment of the law cannot be "punishment," but only actually fulfilling it, and that could only have been Christ's complete unselfish love.
Actually, the OT does not forbid homosexuality.The Law is addressed to straight Jewish men and decrees the death penalty for any two of them CAUGHT having sex, just as it decrees the death penalty for a straight couple CAUGHT in adultery or a new bride who is DISCOVERED to be a non-virgin.
For all his ascribed omniscience, YHWH almost never executed his own decrees, but left it up to fallible human beings.
It's unlikely that any OT men were ever stoned for having sex, even if they were caught.
Good points, David died in his bed. Absalsom was stabbed while hanging by his hair in a tree, he screwed one of daddy's concubines. I laugh at the image of him hanging from the branches by his hair!
Actually, there may be something true about that, Lohit. I do not understand homosexuality, but it is evident that the men of Sodom were heterosexuals, just ordinary citizens. There was also the male temple prostitutes, to whom heterosexual men went as "an act of worship." No evidence that any of them were "gay." Same in the story of the Levite. It was just ordinary male citizens who wanted to rape him. Makes on think, though.
The story of sodom is hilarious isn't it? One of few good morals you can draw from it is "rape is bad". That gets drowned amongst the questionable morals such as:
You should pimp your daughters for a good cause.
Disobedient women make the best seasoning.
For dirty old men with serial incestuous tendencies, alcohol is the ultimate excuse...
Actually, I think that it was Lot's daughters who seduced their father. Makes you wonder just what morality does consist in, since they don't appear to have been condemned for it. In fact, I am a believer in Christ, and very committed; but equally committed to ending bigotry and hypocrisy in the name of Christianity, and especially among fundamentalists of every stripe.
Yes - I understand, but I've always been a bit suspicious of the role of Lot - it takes two to tango twice: or to put it another way, fool him once, shame on her, fool him twice, shame on him...
All the joking aside, this video series seems to make a good argument that that the bible demands fundamentalism. Do you mind if I ask you: what argument would you make against someone who said you should hold a fundamentalist position?
Well, there is that awkward question about male mechanics. While it would not make much difference to Fundamentalist Protestants or R.C.s, both Abba Saint Isaak the Syrian and Abba St Antony the Great tell us not to take literally anything said about God in the Old Testament. There are rather profound reasons for that. I will try to put a quote from St. Isaak into two of these comment boxes; the homily of St Antony is much too long.
Even if such words as wrath, anger, hatred, and many others are pressed into speaking of the Creator, we should not suppose that He ever does anything in anger or hatred or zeal.
Many such figures are employed in the roiling span of Scripture, provisional terms far removed from Who He Is. (continued)
Yeah, the story goes that Lot's daughters seduced him while he was passed out from heavy drinking but, come on, how'd they get him to get an erection in such a state?
(Continued from above) Even as our own, relatively rational persons have already been tweaked, increasingly if slowly made more competent in holy understanding of the Mystery
-- namely, that we should not take things quite so literally, but should suspect (concealed within the corporal surface of unlikely narratives) a hidden providence and eternal knowledge guiding all (Continued below)
I have to say so far I find that case unconvincing. The argument is hopeful conjecture: St Isaac hopes for a good god, and puts his fingers in his ears to get one.
This could work for tales and stories. It can't explain away a law that asks people to kill their children.
I know you might say that doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, but the whole point of the religion is that some don't get to see "the sweep of many things": they are literally /bound/ to know the full evil of god.
Nonetheless, it only demonstrates that the ancient Church fathers and mothers did not advocate or accept "Fundamentalism" or literalism. Whatever one's view of the Hebrew Scripture, the cruelty and inhumanity of those who use it derives from literalism and fundamentalism. I am very well aware of those who rummage through the OT looking for ways to hurt people.
It's hardly harsh criticism or rejection - it's indifference.
I'm disappointed. I hoped for something concrete that could turn fundamentalism around. The only positive I can draw from this is that the good in human nature can sometimes be stronger than scripture. But even then generally good people give into its temptation to justify their bigotry.
You cannot turn fundamentalism around and more than you can inject compassion into the ultra right. Both are birth defects. They are tied to the fear mechanism of the amygdala, and fear rules their lives. Fear is the source of anger, anger is the source of hatred, hatred is the source of murder. St Abba Antony the Great denies that God has any of those passions; they are the projections from the hearts of the men who wrote the Old Testament Scripture. They project their own passion onto God.
You are probably right about fear/anger to some degree (I disagree that it is always a birth defect). It's not however if fundamentalism can be turned at the personal level, it's if the bible can support it in a group.
It seems it does.
Consider how mainstream christian bigotry against homosexuals is: this could be rejected if the bible didn't support it.
The concept of writers projecting seems to do away with using the bible as a source to know about god. This leaves no reason to believe.
All of these contributions have made this an interesting discussion. Airhi, having heard confessions for 40 years, and been involved with trying to help people with their inner suffering, I had to conclude long ago that Gay people are born Gay. Most parents, mothers at least, are aware of this by the time a boy is three or four years old, even when they wish to pretend otherwise. Yes, that bigotry is especially destructive. (continued)
Not just because of Ted H. in Denver, but from many observations, I have noted that the agitating forces behind the persecution of Gay people so often comes from preachers or writers who are Gay themselves. It seems to be more a projection of their own self-hatred. This was true of Joe Mcarthy and so many other famous demogogues. At the root of it is still fear. We hate most in others what we fear most in ourselves.
I don't think what you say is untrue, but the numbers of people who object to homosexuality suggest this is not the only cause. I understand that a large number of people voted against proposition 8 for instance: far more than could be expected to be gay and christian.
The outspoken leaders may be influential, but the bible expressly condones and supports their teachings.
As far as I am aware the bible doesn't allay fears, or condemn bigotry, of many kinds. It appears to stir them up.
The Gay pride parades do not help. They do frighten a lot of people (the unnerve me also). I realise that in Toronto and Vancouver, they are now a part of the local culture, and that thousands of ordinary citizens turn out for them and enjoy them, but they do present a disconcerting stereotype of Gay people that frankly IS scary. Why can't some of the Gay people participate looking like sane, meaningful human beings? Even if only for political reasons.
Westboro baptist Church for example? Now that really is scary. But the fact that many Christian groups act like evolution in reverse does not mean that Gay people cannot present another face in these events that does not reinforce the frightening steriotypes. If any of your reading this happen to be Gay, can you name the Gay man who broke the Nazi codes and helped win the war, only to commit suicide because he was so persecuted for being Gay? Why do you never have float commemorating him etal.
Well, no, it doesn't mean that, but why should it matter? I think gays have as much right to be flamboyant as Christian fundamentalists do. I think we also have to consider the fact that the media may be choosing to portray gays in a certain way by certain events they cover. This seems true especially here in Texas.
It is regional, of course. The behaviour of Televangelists, for example, gives all Christians a bad name. The Fundamentalist "lifestyle" is not at all attractive. Still, I cannot imagine why Gay people do not commemorate the Holocaust in a sober and meaningful way. It was a mass extermination about which the Nazis were just as dedicated as they were to exterminating Jews. The Funda. lifestyle is dangerous to democracy; it is not just the position about Gay people, it is dangerous to all of us.
Why do you never have a float recounting the holocaust of homosexuals during the Third Reich? Why is there never a float comemorating the great composers, artists, politicans and warriors who were Gay? Why don't some of you show up in business suits? Why are they only freak shows that set negative stereotypes?????? Why blame those who are frightened by them, when there is real reason to be frightened? Where are the commemorations of homosex. heroes in these things?
The "gay lifestyle" argument is rabidly encouraged by religious bigots, even to the point where they deny homosexual unions/marriage, perpetuating the "free and single" lifestyle they disagree with.
The most universally anti-gay groups are religious. When pushed, when show figures like Turing, the christians among them always come back to the bible.
Of course it is unjustly encouraged. Not long ago, the whole town of Courteney, B.C. joined the celebration of the 50th anniversary of a Gay couple who were honoured citizens, having served in many civic capacities. Their "lifestyle" was one of giving of their energies to civic and charitable causes, running a small business and earning the respect of their fellow citizens, who showed that respect in an open tribute. But still, why not commemorate people like Allan Turing in the GPParades.
I loved the penn&teller BS episode about gay couples and all the horrible things they do with their children...like reading books, doing homework, driving them to baseball games, and watching television with them. After seeing this I am not surprised that we are so against the "gay lifestyle"! Can you imagine if everybody started doing that???
Airhi: I will admit that homosexuality remains a mystery to me; I hope that had one of my sons or grandchildren been born Gay, I would have treated them no differently, but I could not know that unless it had happened. The fact that I do not understand it means that I have even less right to judge it. I am, however, devoted to social justice and opposed to the persecution of ANYONE. We do live in a liberal democracy. Even if it was choice, in a democracy one cannot deny that right.
I've known a lot of men who would often be erect while drunk. The problem was they never came. Not a one of them would achieve orgasm while drunk. And they all thought because they were drunk, they were really much better in bed. -Rolls eyes- Right.
Ebal, if it actually worked, there would be more mandrake gro-ops that pot gro-ops here in British Columbia. As they say in B.C., "this buds for you."
But allsaintsmonastery, that makes you inconsistent. You had to pick and chose which parts of your primitive text to accept and reject. You had to do that based on modern sensibility. Why not reject the whole thing? Dump the god idea and build up moral codes from scratch using logic, science and compassion... in otherwords consider humanism. The things you are against will never go away as long as the bible and qu'ran and other silly books are used as guides.
It's poor judgement to suggest Lot's daughters seduced their father. You don't have to grab a big book to statistics to understand that the majority of sexual crimes are committed by men on younger victims. It has always been the case that adults are the guardians of children, human children are not self rearing. It's an odd conclusion to jump to and I don't know what you're using as a basis for it.
I am not suggesting; that is what the story says. I don't believe that their mother became the "salt of the earth" either. However, I have seen and heard of many things stranger than two Lolitas going after an older man. It is believable. It is just as believable to suggest that Lot raped them and claimed otherwise. That, too, is not so unusual in our own era.
Thanks for responding. It seems fundamentalists are eager to point out they are no longer bound by many of the Hebrew laws since Christ's death represents a new covenant. Since Paul was down on "homosexuality" they are quick to throw that in your face, but I wondered if you could think of anything in the new testament even a fundamentalist doesn't follow through with. They seem to be stuck on the gay thing as if it's a hobby for them or something.
chuckcordes 3 weeks ago
@chuckcordes Well, let me first tell you that they have an answer for everything. Granted, most of their answers are implausible nonsense, but there's nothing you can bring up that they won't try to justify. However, no Christian sells their possessions to the poor and lives an immaterial life, as Jesus instructs in Matthew 19:21. I also would still argue that no one follows Jesus' advice in Matthew 5:17-19, to keep even "the least" of the Old Testament commands.
TaylorX04 3 weeks ago
@TaylorX04
I find it most interesting that Jesus condemns material wealth multiple times in multiple Gospels, but never says a word himself about homosexuality. Even if Jesus' new covenant will keep Newt Gingrich from burning in hell for adultery, he'll still burn in hell for his wealth. Gays should be fine, though.
ianat841 1 week ago
Maybe you've answered this somewhere here and I missed it, but wasn't the "change" in old scripture laws at the point when Jesus died. The fulfillment was at that point when he died. I've been speaking with believes on the subject and going back to that particular point in time. Paul then continues to condemn homosexuals later in his visions.
chuckcordes 3 weeks ago
@chuckcordes Some might claim that it was at the point he died, but that still doesn't seem to hold up under the verse's stipulation that the law would be in effect "until heaven and earth pass away."
TaylorX04 3 weeks ago
@TaylorX04
I've had a number of Christians tell me that they take the Bible literally... just not the old testament. Can you think of any good examples in the new testament or direct me somewhere? Thanks.
chuckcordes 3 weeks ago
@chuckcordes I'm not sure what you're asking... examples of the absurdities in the New Testament?
TaylorX04 3 weeks ago
Did you say there was a dvd?
justjulie37 1 month ago
very convincing stuff. I really like it and makes me more aware of the wrongs of my previously held religion.
iLaughOut 1 month ago
Good work, most christian don't know nothing about bible. This different comes in bible coz Prist of church's remove orginal and replaced with fakery. They try to make Jesus God and leave many mistakes.
solynawaz 3 months ago
You sound a little like Chris from Family Guy...
pezzamange 4 months ago
Is it even possible to do a step, without getting the death penalty?
Painfulldarksoul 4 months ago
These videos are interesting and well put together, but I found one example that was 'out of context,' though I hate to use that common Christian complaint. In Mark 7: 9-10, Jesus scolds the Pharisees not because he wants them to put their children to death, but because the Pharisees were hypocrites and were complaining about Jesus not observing the old laws (in this case, eating and not washing beforehand). As a fellow atheist, I am merely trying to help, not scold. Thanks.
matternicuss 6 months ago
christians and religious people in general are the most hypocritical assholes on the planet
wearestarstuffsagan 6 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Why do you go to such lengths and set out to destroy what you don't understand? Do you not understand the purpose of the old testament? Do you not understand the purpose of the new testament? Thus the reason why Christ had to come and live as one of us and die for us.
KevinJ1live 6 months ago
@KevinJ1live Like so many arrogant Christians, you seem to think that only you and others who agree with you correctly understand the bible. The problem is that Christianity has hijacked Judaism, so odds are good that what you consider the "purpose" of the Old Testament is far from indisputable. The Old Testament is the chronicles of the ancient Hebrews, some myth, some history. It's as simple as that.
TaylorX04 6 months ago 10
@KevinJ1live Your statements are an oddly ironic example of projection. Consider what happens when we flip them around: "KevinJ1live does not understand the purpose of the old testament. KevinJ1live does not understand the purpose of the new testament. Thus the reason why KevinJ1live believes that Christ had to come, to make sense of a bullshit and immoral belief system."
Yudovitch 5 months ago
The sad thing about the "Bet on death" thing is it's applicable to breaking the law in the military. I love serving my country, but damn if it isn't like being a Christian again.
HimesInu 7 months ago
@TaylorX04 ehhh i don't think jebus is scolding the pharisees for not stoning children as much as he is scolding them for being inconsistent hypocrites. as you've pointed out, jebus breaks the OT commandments often or, at least, reinterprets them radically. in Mark 7, the pharisees and the scribes ask jebus why his disciples are eating with unclean hands (they probably had feces on their hands in the bronze age with no TP). point is, i don't think he's advocating the stoning of children here.
TheLobstar666 10 months ago
This series is sooooo good!
ReligiousFiction 11 months ago
@ReligiousFiction Thanks. Glad you're enjoying it! :-)
TaylorX04 11 months ago 2
good verses. i mean.... bad verses. :)
TruthSurge 1 year ago
anyone else think 12, 7 and 5 on the intro? or is it just me?
TruthSurge 1 year ago
great videos. your voice reminds me of Chris from family guy, but in a good way.
zapstrung 1 year ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Faith in something good and bigger than oneself is a stabilizing force for many. We should believe that something better awaits. The truth of this world is best not known by many in their current state of development ie "You can't handle the truth". We are all pretenders and know in our heart of hearts that what we experience on Earth, is wrong. We were not made for this and we will never accept this as norm. Success of any kind often amplifies the inadequacy of this place.
rollsthepaul 2 years ago
Everyone can believe in something good and bigger than themselves if we take principles into account. But to think that a god qualifies, or that we should believe a better life awaits us after this one? That's taking it too far, in my opinion. That is when the line is crossed and we become pretenders to an ideal that is infinitely changing according to each person and era, yet which many believe to be absolute and unchanging.
TaylorX04 2 years ago 11
The need for fairytales to help us through our days is a major sign of immaturity. It would be nice to believe in santa and the tooth fairy but I don't, it's not healthy.
It's sad that people become dependant on the crutch of faith.
mikeyman211 2 years ago 4
uh oh, according to that stone to death list we're all fucked..... thank goodness it's fake!!!!! whew, dodged that bullet:)
twentyfirstcentury21 2 years ago 3
It appears to be a prerequisite for Christians to cherry pick the Bible.
rollsthepaul 2 years ago 28
Thats a challenge worthy of religionists everywhere. Try for 1 week to follow your sacred book to the the letter. No interpolations, or exceptions are allowed. If you've actually read your holy book, I shouldn't have to tell you this. Don't feel bad if you do not succeed. Christians and Muslims and Judaists, etc.must cherry pick their texts. Why?Because, if all the writers of the various books of thebible(to pick the most familar)were put in a room together,they would rip eachother to pieces.
SocialAnathema 2 years ago 6
I am going to sign off making comments here as I have too much else to do. I have enjoyed the exchange. It has been civil and decent. I would still encourage those of you who are Gay to commemorate the Holocaust in a bold and sober, and meaningful way. And to remember your own heroes of the past in a public, and sober way. Shaping the image that people have of you is still your responsibility, rather than just complaining of the way others do it because you do not. I am a heterosexual Christian,
allsaintsmonastery 2 years ago
another great vid man. you know the bible really well. i post these on my face book it piss everyone off lol.
noproofforjesus 2 years ago
Asking Christians questions about their own religion is ANTI-CHRISTIAN!
Just ask'em.
PraiseShemp 2 years ago 2
Westboro Baptist Church=World's best Christians!
Akatam0t0ma 2 years ago
Bible god has uncontrolable cruelty issues.
dewonthegrass 2 years ago
(Continued - last part of quote) so too we shall in future come to see the sweep of many things to be quite contrary to what our current, puerile processes afford us -- Saint Isaac of Nineveh
(an ancient Orthodox Church Father -- they were not "literalists" and did not take all the stories seriously as they are told)
allsaintsmonastery 2 years ago
Biblegod has insecurity issues.
aartvegan 2 years ago
Excellent video 5 stars. Just to go a little further in the new testament Matthew 5: 17-20 Jesus says: "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." The old testament should be just fine with all Christians.
Dwicker64 2 years ago
One problem with our Christian Fundamentalists: Over my 40 year of service in the Church, one thing is clear to me: Moral outrage is a form of confession, because we hate most in others what we fear most in ourselves.
allsaintsmonastery 2 years ago 3
Another excellent vid. Thanks!
If only I had the funds to publish the Collected YouTube Atheists' Annotated Bible...
WolfriksWorld 2 years ago
Great stuff.
Here is a suggestion. Ray Comfort falls back on 'Oh well there's the Moral Law and the Ceremonial Law and we don't have to keep the Ceremonial Law' Do you know anything about that? Ray never backs it up with anything.
BathTubNZ 2 years ago
That really doesn't excuse Ray from anything. Ceremonial law is stuff like avoiding unclean food, making sacrifices, and so forth. Moral law is pretty much everything I've listed in this video.
TaylorX04 2 years ago
Yeah that's always the question, where in the bible does it define what is 'the moral law' and what is 'the ceremonial law'. Other than 'what I want it to be'.
BathTubNZ 2 years ago
Ray works on the formula that's called;
"Making it up as you go along."
In other words, he picks and chooses whatever he feels is convenient for him to say is God's applicable Word from the New Testament.
In other words;
He's dishonest.
TheTruePooka 2 years ago
Great video!
N21X 2 years ago
Great stuff. =)
TheAtheistSwede 2 years ago
i would love to hear the rebuts from Christians you must be getting.
freethinker3161 2 years ago
Actually, I haven't gotten any responses to this new series yet. Oddly, they jumped on my "Free Will vs. Evil" video, but I guess these ones are little too scripturally sound for them to argue against. I have noticed some of them discover the videos pretty late too... you know, so they can post criticisms without everyone else seeing them and tearing them apart, lol.
TaylorX04 2 years ago
Funny, I get that also.
I do "history vs. bible" videos also.
And Christians are strangely silent when you throw their own biblical history back at them.
*shrug*
Oh well. It's fun to get it out there.
Keep it up, I enjoy your work.
TheTruePooka 2 years ago
Interesting tactic, are they really bottomless wells of dishonesty? But you can counter it - just make a short video directing people the one they are trying to attack. Since I'm subscribed I'd see it. But I suggest using tags like atheist, atheism to attract people too.
farvision 2 years ago
This is absolutely true. I'm an atheist and I asked a Christian (one of the few who are actually tolerant and not a fundamentalist idiot) if he knew all ten of the commandments. He knew about half of them. I listed all ten and he was impressed. I, then asked him, why do the extremists in his religion preach the ten commandments and they don't even know them. His response is that the fundamentalists are too caught up in worship and they probably have never even read the bible.
gir908922 2 years ago
Sweet, screw call of duty im gonna be a christian!
TheGodstalkstome 2 years ago
The average christian never thought about this. But when they ask their priest/vicar for the answer the average one is that 'Christ fulfilled the law' which according to their interpretation means that the law that God make Forever (OT) is suddenly revoked.
Even though Jesus backed the law, as your video shows.
Paul in the end of the NT totally turns the rules upside down for non-jews. Faith suddenly is more important than good deeds.
PS actually I'm mighty glad my parents did not kill me.
MrFacet 2 years ago 8
Aren't we all. Jezuz! Considering my dad, he must have had about 1,000 times he could have had me stoned!
RadarKat73080 2 years ago
Our understanding of the "fulfilment of the Law and the Prophets" is that they could only be fulfilled by the rightiousness of co-suffering love, since ego, self-centredness and self-interest were the problems. I don't expect any of you to agree, but that is the Orthodox Christian understanding of it. The fulfilment of the law cannot be "punishment," but only actually fulfilling it, and that could only have been Christ's complete unselfish love.
allsaintsmonastery 2 years ago
The "LAW" has never been fulfilled because Abraham has never received the "Promised Land." Acts 7:5
Ebal The Atheist
ebaltrace 2 years ago
When in doubt, death by stoning. That's a convenient rule of thumb.
ONQproductions 2 years ago 6
Xian dickheads always quote the Old Testement law about homosexuality.
RadarKat73080 2 years ago 5
Actually, the OT does not forbid homosexuality.The Law is addressed to straight Jewish men and decrees the death penalty for any two of them CAUGHT having sex, just as it decrees the death penalty for a straight couple CAUGHT in adultery or a new bride who is DISCOVERED to be a non-virgin.
For all his ascribed omniscience, YHWH almost never executed his own decrees, but left it up to fallible human beings.
It's unlikely that any OT men were ever stoned for having sex, even if they were caught.
Lohitaksha 2 years ago 3
Good points, David died in his bed. Absalsom was stabbed while hanging by his hair in a tree, he screwed one of daddy's concubines. I laugh at the image of him hanging from the branches by his hair!
RadarKat73080 2 years ago
@RadarKat73080 Serves him right for having long hair. How did David have so many concubines without committing adultry?
allsaintsmonastery 2 years ago
You've served the church 40 years, you tell me. I'm not even 40 years old yet!
RadarKat73080 2 years ago
Long enough to have discerned our own Christian hypocrisy and bigotry, and decided to try to combat that aspect of the practice of the faith.
allsaintsmonastery 2 years ago
"There is none doing good, no not one."
RadarKat73080 2 years ago
Maybe they were HIS concubines?
MrFacet 2 years ago
Actually, there may be something true about that, Lohit. I do not understand homosexuality, but it is evident that the men of Sodom were heterosexuals, just ordinary citizens. There was also the male temple prostitutes, to whom heterosexual men went as "an act of worship." No evidence that any of them were "gay." Same in the story of the Levite. It was just ordinary male citizens who wanted to rape him. Makes on think, though.
allsaintsmonastery 2 years ago
The story of sodom is hilarious isn't it? One of few good morals you can draw from it is "rape is bad". That gets drowned amongst the questionable morals such as:
You should pimp your daughters for a good cause.
Disobedient women make the best seasoning.
For dirty old men with serial incestuous tendencies, alcohol is the ultimate excuse...
airihi 2 years ago 2
Actually, I think that it was Lot's daughters who seduced their father. Makes you wonder just what morality does consist in, since they don't appear to have been condemned for it. In fact, I am a believer in Christ, and very committed; but equally committed to ending bigotry and hypocrisy in the name of Christianity, and especially among fundamentalists of every stripe.
allsaintsmonastery 2 years ago
Yes - I understand, but I've always been a bit suspicious of the role of Lot - it takes two to tango twice: or to put it another way, fool him once, shame on her, fool him twice, shame on him...
All the joking aside, this video series seems to make a good argument that that the bible demands fundamentalism. Do you mind if I ask you: what argument would you make against someone who said you should hold a fundamentalist position?
airihi 2 years ago
Well, there is that awkward question about male mechanics. While it would not make much difference to Fundamentalist Protestants or R.C.s, both Abba Saint Isaak the Syrian and Abba St Antony the Great tell us not to take literally anything said about God in the Old Testament. There are rather profound reasons for that. I will try to put a quote from St. Isaak into two of these comment boxes; the homily of St Antony is much too long.
allsaintsmonastery 2 years ago
Even if such words as wrath, anger, hatred, and many others are pressed into speaking of the Creator, we should not suppose that He ever does anything in anger or hatred or zeal.
Many such figures are employed in the roiling span of Scripture, provisional terms far removed from Who He Is. (continued)
allsaintsmonastery 2 years ago
Yeah, the story goes that Lot's daughters seduced him while he was passed out from heavy drinking but, come on, how'd they get him to get an erection in such a state?
1140Cecile 2 years ago
(Continued from above) Even as our own, relatively rational persons have already been tweaked, increasingly if slowly made more competent in holy understanding of the Mystery
-- namely, that we should not take things quite so literally, but should suspect (concealed within the corporal surface of unlikely narratives) a hidden providence and eternal knowledge guiding all (Continued below)
allsaintsmonastery 2 years ago
I have to say so far I find that case unconvincing. The argument is hopeful conjecture: St Isaac hopes for a good god, and puts his fingers in his ears to get one.
This could work for tales and stories. It can't explain away a law that asks people to kill their children.
I know you might say that doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, but the whole point of the religion is that some don't get to see "the sweep of many things": they are literally /bound/ to know the full evil of god.
airihi 2 years ago
Nonetheless, it only demonstrates that the ancient Church fathers and mothers did not advocate or accept "Fundamentalism" or literalism. Whatever one's view of the Hebrew Scripture, the cruelty and inhumanity of those who use it derives from literalism and fundamentalism. I am very well aware of those who rummage through the OT looking for ways to hurt people.
allsaintsmonastery 2 years ago
It's hardly harsh criticism or rejection - it's indifference.
I'm disappointed. I hoped for something concrete that could turn fundamentalism around. The only positive I can draw from this is that the good in human nature can sometimes be stronger than scripture. But even then generally good people give into its temptation to justify their bigotry.
airihi 2 years ago
You cannot turn fundamentalism around and more than you can inject compassion into the ultra right. Both are birth defects. They are tied to the fear mechanism of the amygdala, and fear rules their lives. Fear is the source of anger, anger is the source of hatred, hatred is the source of murder. St Abba Antony the Great denies that God has any of those passions; they are the projections from the hearts of the men who wrote the Old Testament Scripture. They project their own passion onto God.
allsaintsmonastery 2 years ago
You are probably right about fear/anger to some degree (I disagree that it is always a birth defect). It's not however if fundamentalism can be turned at the personal level, it's if the bible can support it in a group.
It seems it does.
Consider how mainstream christian bigotry against homosexuals is: this could be rejected if the bible didn't support it.
The concept of writers projecting seems to do away with using the bible as a source to know about god. This leaves no reason to believe.
airihi 2 years ago
All of these contributions have made this an interesting discussion. Airhi, having heard confessions for 40 years, and been involved with trying to help people with their inner suffering, I had to conclude long ago that Gay people are born Gay. Most parents, mothers at least, are aware of this by the time a boy is three or four years old, even when they wish to pretend otherwise. Yes, that bigotry is especially destructive. (continued)
allsaintsmonastery 2 years ago
Not just because of Ted H. in Denver, but from many observations, I have noted that the agitating forces behind the persecution of Gay people so often comes from preachers or writers who are Gay themselves. It seems to be more a projection of their own self-hatred. This was true of Joe Mcarthy and so many other famous demogogues. At the root of it is still fear. We hate most in others what we fear most in ourselves.
allsaintsmonastery 2 years ago
I don't think what you say is untrue, but the numbers of people who object to homosexuality suggest this is not the only cause. I understand that a large number of people voted against proposition 8 for instance: far more than could be expected to be gay and christian.
The outspoken leaders may be influential, but the bible expressly condones and supports their teachings.
As far as I am aware the bible doesn't allay fears, or condemn bigotry, of many kinds. It appears to stir them up.
airihi 2 years ago
The Gay pride parades do not help. They do frighten a lot of people (the unnerve me also). I realise that in Toronto and Vancouver, they are now a part of the local culture, and that thousands of ordinary citizens turn out for them and enjoy them, but they do present a disconcerting stereotype of Gay people that frankly IS scary. Why can't some of the Gay people participate looking like sane, meaningful human beings? Even if only for political reasons.
allsaintsmonastery 2 years ago
I'm wondering the same of a lot of Christians here in America. ;-)
TaylorX04 2 years ago
Westboro baptist Church for example? Now that really is scary. But the fact that many Christian groups act like evolution in reverse does not mean that Gay people cannot present another face in these events that does not reinforce the frightening steriotypes. If any of your reading this happen to be Gay, can you name the Gay man who broke the Nazi codes and helped win the war, only to commit suicide because he was so persecuted for being Gay? Why do you never have float commemorating him etal.
allsaintsmonastery 2 years ago
Well, no, it doesn't mean that, but why should it matter? I think gays have as much right to be flamboyant as Christian fundamentalists do. I think we also have to consider the fact that the media may be choosing to portray gays in a certain way by certain events they cover. This seems true especially here in Texas.
TaylorX04 2 years ago
It is regional, of course. The behaviour of Televangelists, for example, gives all Christians a bad name. The Fundamentalist "lifestyle" is not at all attractive. Still, I cannot imagine why Gay people do not commemorate the Holocaust in a sober and meaningful way. It was a mass extermination about which the Nazis were just as dedicated as they were to exterminating Jews. The Funda. lifestyle is dangerous to democracy; it is not just the position about Gay people, it is dangerous to all of us.
allsaintsmonastery 2 years ago
Why do you never have a float recounting the holocaust of homosexuals during the Third Reich? Why is there never a float comemorating the great composers, artists, politicans and warriors who were Gay? Why don't some of you show up in business suits? Why are they only freak shows that set negative stereotypes?????? Why blame those who are frightened by them, when there is real reason to be frightened? Where are the commemorations of homosex. heroes in these things?
allsaintsmonastery 2 years ago
The "gay lifestyle" argument is rabidly encouraged by religious bigots, even to the point where they deny homosexual unions/marriage, perpetuating the "free and single" lifestyle they disagree with.
The most universally anti-gay groups are religious. When pushed, when show figures like Turing, the christians among them always come back to the bible.
airihi 2 years ago
Of course it is unjustly encouraged. Not long ago, the whole town of Courteney, B.C. joined the celebration of the 50th anniversary of a Gay couple who were honoured citizens, having served in many civic capacities. Their "lifestyle" was one of giving of their energies to civic and charitable causes, running a small business and earning the respect of their fellow citizens, who showed that respect in an open tribute. But still, why not commemorate people like Allan Turing in the GPParades.
allsaintsmonastery 2 years ago
I loved the penn&teller BS episode about gay couples and all the horrible things they do with their children...like reading books, doing homework, driving them to baseball games, and watching television with them. After seeing this I am not surprised that we are so against the "gay lifestyle"! Can you imagine if everybody started doing that???
1n354a 2 years ago 16
Airhi: I will admit that homosexuality remains a mystery to me; I hope that had one of my sons or grandchildren been born Gay, I would have treated them no differently, but I could not know that unless it had happened. The fact that I do not understand it means that I have even less right to judge it. I am, however, devoted to social justice and opposed to the persecution of ANYONE. We do live in a liberal democracy. Even if it was choice, in a democracy one cannot deny that right.
allsaintsmonastery 2 years ago 2
Secret herbs which acted as natural Viagra were added to Lot's wine.
The recipe is in the Bible if you know where to look.
Ebal the Atheist
ebaltrace 2 years ago
ebaltrace, do tell us the natural Viagra or better yet, publish it (after confirming it) in a scientific journal!
farvision 2 years ago
farvision: if you are curious, you might want to research watermelon...
;)
airihi 2 years ago
I wholeheartedly agree! "Secret herbs" that will allow a guy to get an erection when he's pissed to the gills would be very popular.
1140Cecile 2 years ago
I've known a lot of men who would often be erect while drunk. The problem was they never came. Not a one of them would achieve orgasm while drunk. And they all thought because they were drunk, they were really much better in bed. -Rolls eyes- Right.
LeksServices 2 years ago
Or he was a horny drunk pervert.
GnosticDjinn 2 years ago
Mandrake is not all that secret.
allsaintsmonastery 2 years ago
But you have to be very careful in its use.
You don't want to get an erection that lasts more than 4 hours.
Ebal the Atheist
ebaltrace 2 years ago
Ebal, if it actually worked, there would be more mandrake gro-ops that pot gro-ops here in British Columbia. As they say in B.C., "this buds for you."
allsaintsmonastery 2 years ago
I find it interesting that you take the time to comment on mandrakes while ignoring my comment on Abraham.
Ebal the Atheist
ebaltrace 2 years ago
i must have missed the comment on Abraham. I did not want to pass up an opportunity for a bit of humour, though, as the discussion can get to heavy
allsaintsmonastery 2 years ago
But allsaintsmonastery, that makes you inconsistent. You had to pick and chose which parts of your primitive text to accept and reject. You had to do that based on modern sensibility. Why not reject the whole thing? Dump the god idea and build up moral codes from scratch using logic, science and compassion... in otherwords consider humanism. The things you are against will never go away as long as the bible and qu'ran and other silly books are used as guides.
farvision 2 years ago
It's poor judgement to suggest Lot's daughters seduced their father. You don't have to grab a big book to statistics to understand that the majority of sexual crimes are committed by men on younger victims. It has always been the case that adults are the guardians of children, human children are not self rearing. It's an odd conclusion to jump to and I don't know what you're using as a basis for it.
tmt686 2 years ago
I am not suggesting; that is what the story says. I don't believe that their mother became the "salt of the earth" either. However, I have seen and heard of many things stranger than two Lolitas going after an older man. It is believable. It is just as believable to suggest that Lot raped them and claimed otherwise. That, too, is not so unusual in our own era.
allsaintsmonastery 2 years ago