i am glad there's a movie which actually has Edward in it. Usually movies take place BEFORE he reigns, like with all of Henry's wives, or AFTER with mary I and Elizabeth.
Actually, Jane Lapotaire (the Mary in this movie) as well as the Mary in The Virgin Queen were quite attractive. Sarah Bolger portrayed Mary in her younger years (The Tudors), and in fact, in her youth, Mary was clearly more attractive than Elizabeth with her mixture of English and Spanish blood.
Jeez, Jane and Edward would have made a cute couple and fulfilled the family tradition - keep your friends close, your cousins in your bed, your kids in the nursery, and the deformities in the dungeon...
Simply because in the world of dynastic politics, even the lives of monarchs were highly expendable so long as the interests of the parties in charge were preserved. These people cared less about Edward than for maintaining their authority and prosperity, and keeping England a Protestant nation was an essential component of their plan. As a Catholic, Mary was certainly an obstacle to that plan, and though a Protestant, Elizabeth was questioned for her commitment and legitimacy.
Maybe it is just me, but the outfit Princess Mary is wearing would be a drag queen's delight. You could fly and land airplanes off that big, kick ass collar of hers!
I think Edward did in some way want to marry Jane, and Jane might have known of it and reciprocated (at least in this film), but they both silently knew it could never happen. Doesn't mean Jane couldn't still hold a wish in her heart...
In another matter, it seems the spirit of Tudor women fearing marriage was not only manifested in Elizabeth...
Ah, to have lived during the entire tudors time, a time of when you woke up in the morning would you have to change your faith or friends just so you don't end up on the block lol, good times, good times.
The Earl of Warwick (Dudley) confided in a friend that he absolutely loathed the "new religion" (Protestantism), and though not a papal Catholic, was like Henry VIII in embracing Catholicism without the Pope. However, he saw where his opportunity was, and simply cast his lot with the Protestant cause. Interesting how the Greys and Dudleys were just as opposed to Elizabeth as they were to Mary, and this is because the fundamentalist Protestants also saw her as the bastard child of Anne Boleyn.
@ligreekguy Again, not neccessarily. It could be said that they were uncertain of where Elizabeth's faith lay and if they were passing over Mary they would have to pass over Elizabeth on the same ground, on their unrepealed illegitimacy
To be certain, the hard core Protestants were wary of Elizabeth being mum on the religious issue. It later turned out that she supported celibate clergy (though she was down on marriage, anyway) and hinted at supporting the concept of Transubstantiation.
Jane Lapotaire is the actress portraying Mary, and she was only 42 when this movie was made (interestingly the age Mary was when she died). In this scene, Mary is 37, so the age difference is only five years. It should also be remembered that people did age considerably quicker in the 1500s than they do now, and if anything, Lapotaire was probably doing Mary justice in this scene.
Where was the castle with the bridge across the moat? I saw it in the Silver Chair one of the Chronicles of Narnia, filmed by the BBC in 1990, but couldn't find the location for it.
I find it hysterical when Jane's father comes into the room where his wife is pigging out on those disgusting looking meat chops, and says "Good Lord, are you still eating?" This scene reflects the real Frances Brandon, who was quite overweight, and evidently did a lot of eating in what was already too much spare time on her hands. While the actress portraying Frances is quite good, she simply bears no resemblance to the historical character.
@greekguy, thanks for the history recap. Sure were a lot of heads rolling (down) in proportion to ascension (up) to the throne. Pursuit of power 450 years ago was bloody business--oh wait, it still is today!
The problem between Elizabeth and Mary Queen of Scots was that the latter had outlived the four women above her in line for the throne when Elizabeth was queen: Jane Grey was executed in 1554, Frances Brandon died in 1561, Katherine Grey in 1568, and Mary Grey in 1578. Even though the Queen of Scots had been held prisoner in England since 1567, for nine years (1578-1587), she was Elizabeth's next heir. After her execution, her son, James VI of Scotland, was next in line.
Interestingly, at the time of the death of Henry VIII in 1547, there were seven women next in line for the throne after Edward: his two sisters, Mary and Elizabeth, followed by Frances Brandon (Jane's mother), then Jane, then Jane's two sisters, Katherine and Mary, and finally, Mary Queen of Scots. The Brandon-Grey line was descended from Henry VIII's younger sister Mary, while the Queen of Scots was descended from his older sister Margaret (she came last due to being both foreign and Catholic).
Protestantism is so bleak and meaningless. I cannot believe they took the religious ornaments from the churches, and transformed them into dinner and serving ware for the wealthy. As a Greek Orthodox, I can only imagine what they would have done to the icons had they managed to get a hold of them: God knows the Ottoman Muslims wreaked enough havoc in that department. This also forms a link between Islam and Protestantism, as both religions forbid imagery. Figures, they are both made up faiths.
I really could not understand one thing. The Catholics had been kind to Jane as a child (and in this movie), but many of the Protestants in her life (including her parents and the Dudleys) treated her like absolute crap. Granted, she did not accept Catholic teachings, but at times, she was so rigidly disrespectful and even hateful toward the Catholic Church. She sort of cooked her own goose by not appreciating those who were good to her and tried to help her.
@ligreekguy : I am gonna tell you a story: one day Confucius was walking down a street and a boy sat on a wall started trowing stones in Confucius, without any reason or excuse to attack an old defenseless man. Confucius turned to the boy and said: "What GOOD did I do to you, boy?". Such is the human nature. When somebody is good, kind to you, you're sarcastic, evil,many times ungrateful. On the other hand, when other led you to error, you're still faithful to them.
@ligreekguy Have you ever noticed that when the relatives of a child don't appreciate some friendships of their son or daughter, they reprehend them. The child often does not like such critics, goes on in the same path till something bad happens. On the other hand, when a mother likes a certain companionship of their children, their children will avoid that company - only because mother or father appreciate it. I've seen it many times in my life. The name of this in theology is "rebel spirit"
@ligreekguy A rebel spirit doesn't accept or consider a good advice, doesn't follow good examples - has a very characteristic feature: pride, arrogance & ungratefulness. This rebel spirit is now in this new generation (born in the 80s,90s) like it was in the generation of the 60s. This rebel spirit has been punished but doesn't learn with its own mistakes and bad actions. Unfortunately, we learn a good lesson in our lives ONLY when our attitudes dig our own grave.
Frances Brandon was a selfish bitch whose butt would be in jail today if she were alive in a civilized world. Remember, this was the era of slave traders and fanatics who tortured, racked, whipped and burned human beings.
It must be remembered that if they were alive today, people such as Catherine Parr, Edward VI and Jane Grey would be the hard core evangelical Protestants, while Elizabeth I would be a mainline Protestant. The way Jane made fun of the Eucharist was so typical of the snide intolerance of evangelicals today. She obviously was too ignorant to understand that the baker did not make God, but that God gave the priest the power to sanctify the bread. (I am Greek Orthodox, so we observe the same thing).
@ligreekguy well said. I am Roman Catholic. The heresies of Luther - a former Augustinian monk - made generations leave the real rite, the traditions and respect. This girl was very proud, sarcastic and proud - pretending she had all truth, led by her own way of thinking, without a proper and regular education. Not to mention more of her bad features. History is one thing, what this film shows is pure protestant propaganda of the worst kind. If the protestants denied, they denied Christ & Bible.
I appreciate your reply! One thing, however, was the film as much of a Protestant propaganda piece as you say? The Catholic priest who pities Jane is certainly depicted in a positive light, and even Mary I is shown as merciful until political circumstances as well as the pressures of those around her (whom are obviously more politically secular than devoutly Catholic) force her hand against Jane. Most of the Protestants in the film are depicted as downright nasty.
I am not certain if you saw the movie Elizabeth with Cate Blanchett. THAT was very propagandizing. The most disgusting scene is when the then Princess Elizabeth (during the reign of Mary I) is superficially attending a Catholic mass, and when no one is looking, she spits out the Host that has been placed into her mouth. That scene literally made me shake all over.
Oh yeah and the Protestants and Catholics said everyone else were uncivilized, oh yeah, whipping a child to the point of almost killing, yep that's civilized uh huh.
What horrible parents, I'm not sure if this happened, by I know back then parents did things like that, but they were whipped themselves, so I guess they thought what they were doing was right, still whipping a kid like that is immoral and horrible and it scars the kids, I'm not talking about spanking, I'm talking about severe whipping.
dayummm...I mean, I believe in disciplining a child, but this is just WAAYY too much. Especially since Frances is using her for her own political machinations.
@mrhalwes umm, I never said anything to you, I only made a general statement that Jane has ridiculous parents..so why did you send me a comment saying:
"@ChristandI45 Have not insulted Europeans, Muslims, southern White slave-owners. Just told the truth about those who were savages. That isn't bigotry. Any part of that you don't grasp?"
you've got to admit, Jane can sure as hell take a beating. I'm just glad they didn't use Jane's Mother "teaching" technique when I was learning algebra.....
Jane was not a snob but she was far too young to assume duties of a monarch. Quiet, precocious people may appear "snobs", but that's an unfair assessment. Jane was as much a slave as any field hand. Vicious 16th century Christian parents, whippings, forced marriages.... no different than modern day Taliban patriarchs who treat their women the same way.
Jane was a slave to her parents, and later the "husband" in a forced marriage (i.e. rape). A brilliant girl, she loved academics, it was her only escape from her cruel parents.
When a bunch of unbathed rednecks hold you down and beat you, you will soon break. Slaves did.
@mrhalwes Umm yeah, not condoning slavery or anything, but you do know that it has been going on for as long as there have been people on the planet? And, by the way, slavery was not only in the southern states, it was also quite popular in the North.
I take it you are a Christian. Yes, I am well read in history and anthropology. Slavery has always been practiced because vicious people like rape, blood, torture and stealing. It is still practiced in various forms in most parts of the world, especially primitive Muslim countries and some Christian cults here. Usual cruelties: forced marriages of young girls, severe beatings, rape, wife-beating, beheadings, lapidation, sometimes forced prostitution and human trafficking.
@Kevin2O1ODaly Why do you say she's a snob? She couldn't stand up fo herself because if she did her paretns beat her. Which you can see in this...or I think it might be the next one. She was a tragic charcter. SHe never wanted to be Queen and yet dies for it.
I do pity Lady Jane, and absolutely loathe her auster parents, but she was rather nasty and sassy even to those who were kind to her, or tried to be, such as Dr. Feckenham (the priest), Princess Mary's servant, and even Mary herself. She wasted little time in deriding the Catholic religion despite the fact that the Protestants in her life were absolutely horrible to her.
@ligreekguy I don't think she was neccessarily trying to be nasty, merely stating her views. perhaps a little forcibly but she was still rather young and dogmatic in her beliefs, not neccessarily knowing the polite subtelty that most adults know
I do agree that she was a tragic figure, but Mary takes too much of a bad rap here, as she tried in every way to spare her life. Elizabeth, with her Macchiavellian style politics, would NEVER have given Lady Jane and especially her father another chance! Interesting, but Roger Ascham, the brilliant Cambridge tutor to the royal and noble children, wrote that Jane was far more academically brilliant than all his pupils, including Elizabeth.
@ligreekguy Hmm maybe if she had more backbone she could have been a more notable figure in history. She was too shortsighted to be aware of what power she could have had. Elizabeth on the other hand, adept at reading situations saw her rule for its possibilities.
True, but Elizabeth did not have her parents around to manipulate her the way Jane's did. (Anne Boleyn died when Elizabeth was two and a half, Henry VIII when she was thirteen and a half). Moreover, as a direct offspring of a reigning King, Elizabeth was in a far better position than Jane to be giving orders rather than taking them. The only people to whom she had to answer were the monarchs themselves (Henry, Edward, Mary). Jane, on the other hand, had a lot of "bosses".
Does the movie suggest that Frances and husband had confiscated (er..stolen) some of the gold chalices, plates, relics, when the monasteries were dissolved? No wonder she feared a return to a Catholic England.
Frances Brandon was a selfish psycho. Her social and religious community endorsed her cruelty. Frances knew she was giving her child over to rape and marital violence. She knew making Jane Queen could backfire; that "traitor" Jane could be beheaded (or BURNED ALIVE) for treason.
The plague. No running water. No modern medicine or dentistry. Horrible toothaches. Agony in childbirth. Stench of sticky menstrual blood with just filthy rags. Whipping post, pillory, slave trade. Subjugated wives, both rich and poor classes.... And they called Africans "savages".
Trashy Europeans in the 1500s did not bathe. They were sick, cruel, filthy and barbaric. If Jane were whipped during her menses, it would have caused hemorrhage. Women - just naked slaves in Christian Europe. Just like how modern Taliban treat their women.
Girls were given in marriage to men who could rape and beat them. They were burned if they killed an abusive husband. They had no rights or opportunities.
I have no idea where you're from, but if you're american you most likely are a descentant of those so-called trashy citizens.
The modern america is much closer to the catholic insanity of the dark ages, than "Europe" (which is not one country, but MANY and they are DIFFERENT from each other) is today.
@Peacekeeper88 "The modern america is much closer to the catholic insanity of the dark ages"
As an American, I HIGHLY disagree with this. Majority of people here are Protestant and pretty much most of the big shots in politics/banking are Jewish. A devout traditional Catholic here is about as rare as a four-leafed clover.
Of course, only a jingoistic American would say that Europeans are "trashy" (another statement I disagree with, on so many points).
@mrhalwes Could you add just a little more bigotry into your posts? Goodness knows, we haven't seen enough of it already. So far you have insulted Europeans, Christians, Muslims, and people who live in the South. Would you like to add one more people group into your rant of insults towards everyone who is not exactly like you?
Have not insulted Europeans, Muslims, southern White slave-owners. Just told the truth about those who were savages. That isn't bigotry. Any part of that you don't grasp?
Have not "insulted" Europeans, Muslims, southern White slave-owners. Just told the truth about those who were vicious to their victims. I'd also tell the truth about Adolf Eichmann, Khomeni, Mohammad Atta, Dr. Mengele, Preston Brooks, Bull Connor, but guess that would be "bigotry" in your eyes.
Remember the era. Children, slaves, wives, were victims of domestic violence. Whipping and torture were commonplace. Women were burned alive as "witches", or burned for using pain-killers in childbirth (the Christian god wanted screams of agony). Commoners were butchered alive.
Could you all imagine living in times like that? Arranged marriages, and also being whipped if you so chose not to do what was requested of you. And the mother seems unloving and unfeeling towars anything except her own family traditions. She doesn't care about Jane in the least. Unfair, but not uncommon for the time.
Arranged marriages would probably been much more common (and enforced) in the upper classes, as opposed to the general population, as marriage was seen as a way of making political alliances and maintaining wealth & status.
ahhhhhhh its wee jane eyre!!!! she totally should of had a career after that series she was amazin!!! zelah was the best jane... as was dalton as rochester...
God, Helena Bonham Carter has it all. She has that awkward, insecure, pensive Jane with an inner will of iron and strength and and a mind of her own. Her mannerisms are perfect. Why doesn't she have an Oscar yet?
Cary Elwes is related to both Guilford Dudley and Lady Jane Grey (on his father's side). Because Dudley and Grey never had children, Elwes is the direct descendant to Dudley and Grey's siblings: Mary Dudley, Guilford's sister, and Katherine Grey, Jane's sister, who was also the wife of Edward Seymour.
And mom wonders why I have an issue with parents commanding respect like this. She believes the ancient "creed" that parents need to do whatever they need to do to force their kids to be obediant. When I adopt children, I would never physically harm them like parents then (and even some parents now). Forced into a marriage and a crown she never wanted by her abusive and ambitious parents, I feel so bad for her. Kids would be a lot better off if parents stopped being such control freaks!
Apparently Jane was whipped quite often. She told someone (I forget who... Roger Ascham, maybe?) that her parents made her do everything perfectly, and if she didn't, she was beaten.
In a sad sense that made her one of the great learned personalities of her time. Well above her peers. One must also remember that she was second in line to the thrown after her mother if one takes in account the Bastard Status of her two cousins. If she had lived long enough she would have in her own right been Queen after Elizabeth. Provided that Henry's will was carried threw to completion. The game was so sad as Jane never needed to go threw what she did. It was hers all along.
I heard somewhere that Helena actually allowed the birching to happen.. Just one take of it for the sake of making it look as real as possible if that is true then she is one hell of an actress... That is going above and beyond the call of duty...
I just love the way Mary is portrayed in this film, I don't know much about her, but the only other portryal I have seen about her was on "Elizabeth" (1998) and they seemed to protray her as a total nut. I like this Mary better.
I do too. It is a more realistic portrayal of the Mary I I have read about. I also love how they portray Edward VI. Both Mary and Edward usually get short shrift in films about Henry VIII or Elizabeth. These characters are much more fleshed out with much more substance.
Mary Tudor, was bloody Mary... I think. I know she was about 20 years older than Edward. But she certainly wasn't this old, before she took the thrown.
Jane was a smart young Lady, I believe she understood all in front of her. She like Elizabeth had a sense of what was the politics. Did it age her, maybe, but I think it was all part of who she really was. She had all the makings of Elizabeth and of Henry, her Grandmother was very astute as well. She really was a chip off the "old block". Her reign if allowed could well have been a Golden Age on it's own or a disaster as Mary's was. We will never know.
Mary did, in fact, have red hair -- but it was not so bright like Elizabeth's and Edward's. It was more an auburn than the red-gold Tudor hair; even Jane's hair was more Tudor than Mary's, but she did nonetheless possess red hair to a degree.
The 16th century was one of the worse periods to grow up, particularly for girls, then there has ever been.
HistoryLover1550 3 weeks ago
She looks soo young saw it at school thought it looked like her but wasn't sure ;P
HarryFreestone 3 weeks ago
i am glad there's a movie which actually has Edward in it. Usually movies take place BEFORE he reigns, like with all of Henry's wives, or AFTER with mary I and Elizabeth.
Hallelujah378 2 months ago 5
@ Paddysnuffles
He died of Tuberculosis.
TheVestini 4 months ago
wait her OWN MOTHER IS GONNA BEHEAD HER ...WDF THAT IS TWISTED SICK
AlternativeAbyss 5 months ago 2
No she's not.
Fred50099 5 months ago
@AlternativeAbyss it's the middle ages, people were harsh and yes sometimes sick
Phersephoie 3 months ago
@Phersephoie Francis Grey was considered overly harsh even back then. Several people at the time commented on her cruelty.
Medusa0999 1 month ago
The Actor portraying Jane's Mother resembles the old portraits of Queen Mary.
jdollinter 6 months ago 4
@jdollinter i think the guy playing Edward is quite a lot like the old portraits of him!
MeowSaidTheLion 4 months ago
@jdollinter ...Mary Tudor
jdollinter 4 months ago
Jane had an awful mother and father. She had a horrible 17 years of life.
chloebella17 6 months ago
Why do they always make Mary I look so unattractive? The only pretty Mary I have ever seen in a movie or show, is the Mary in The Tudors.
chloebella17 6 months ago
@chloebella17
Actually, Jane Lapotaire (the Mary in this movie) as well as the Mary in The Virgin Queen were quite attractive. Sarah Bolger portrayed Mary in her younger years (The Tudors), and in fact, in her youth, Mary was clearly more attractive than Elizabeth with her mixture of English and Spanish blood.
spartacus3ful 6 months ago
"Guildford is a studious lad, I imagine he is with his books now."........"More Wine!" What a great cut of those two scenes. Hilarious!
mikeleesarajean 6 months ago 3
young helena bonham carter is so adorable and cute!! <3
cuttie16fanaticno1 7 months ago 4
Yes,
Fred50099 7 months ago
And the best mother award goes to....not you.
PaulineMichelle50 7 months ago 16
Lady Jane's tender bare bottom would have been red hot after that huge spanking.
Fred50099 7 months ago 3
@Fred50099
I've been spanked like that, and it wasn't so bad.
spartacus3ful 6 months ago 2
You were spanked with a birch rod?
Fred50099 6 months ago 2
Jeez, Jane and Edward would have made a cute couple and fulfilled the family tradition - keep your friends close, your cousins in your bed, your kids in the nursery, and the deformities in the dungeon...
KDVx3 8 months ago 20
Jane's parents were so cruel, especially her mother.
TheNewEmphinix 8 months ago in playlist Lady Jane 2
oh wait is that mrs. stark in game of thrones?
brattyzola 8 months ago
@brattyzola no.
TheNewEmphinix 8 months ago
"Embrace me." Hee, royals are so formal
CharlestonChica 8 months ago
"God Rest His Soul"
"..indeed."
i dunno, i just found that so weird and blunt lol.
righteous09 9 months ago
@righteous09
Simply because in the world of dynastic politics, even the lives of monarchs were highly expendable so long as the interests of the parties in charge were preserved. These people cared less about Edward than for maintaining their authority and prosperity, and keeping England a Protestant nation was an essential component of their plan. As a Catholic, Mary was certainly an obstacle to that plan, and though a Protestant, Elizabeth was questioned for her commitment and legitimacy.
telamon2011 8 months ago
'I imagine now he is among his books, or praying...' LOL
mimimirwitch 10 months ago 3
@mimimirwitch MORRRE WIIIINEEEE
madmadhatterful 8 months ago
This is such a great movie. My father and I watched it when I was 12, and we both loved it.
TheNewEmphinix 10 months ago
Maybe it is just me, but the outfit Princess Mary is wearing would be a drag queen's delight. You could fly and land airplanes off that big, kick ass collar of hers!
ligreekguy 11 months ago
I know he was sickly, but what exactly did Edward die of?
PaddySnuffles 1 year ago
@PaddySnuffles I think he was poisoned by captain Picard
CIarKent 11 months ago
Hm... they should be closer in age to one another. They were only born a year or two apart.
Puddleduck42 1 year ago
I think Edward did in some way want to marry Jane, and Jane might have known of it and reciprocated (at least in this film), but they both silently knew it could never happen. Doesn't mean Jane couldn't still hold a wish in her heart...
In another matter, it seems the spirit of Tudor women fearing marriage was not only manifested in Elizabeth...
Naymeer10 1 year ago
Ah, to have lived during the entire tudors time, a time of when you woke up in the morning would you have to change your faith or friends just so you don't end up on the block lol, good times, good times.
mckfrr 1 year ago
The Earl of Warwick (Dudley) confided in a friend that he absolutely loathed the "new religion" (Protestantism), and though not a papal Catholic, was like Henry VIII in embracing Catholicism without the Pope. However, he saw where his opportunity was, and simply cast his lot with the Protestant cause. Interesting how the Greys and Dudleys were just as opposed to Elizabeth as they were to Mary, and this is because the fundamentalist Protestants also saw her as the bastard child of Anne Boleyn.
ligreekguy 1 year ago
@ligreekguy Again, not neccessarily. It could be said that they were uncertain of where Elizabeth's faith lay and if they were passing over Mary they would have to pass over Elizabeth on the same ground, on their unrepealed illegitimacy
ImADrWhoAddict 1 year ago
@ImADrWhoAddict
To be certain, the hard core Protestants were wary of Elizabeth being mum on the religious issue. It later turned out that she supported celibate clergy (though she was down on marriage, anyway) and hinted at supporting the concept of Transubstantiation.
ligreekguy 1 year ago
Queen Mary was only in her 30's during the time of this film , The actress who plays her looks to aged..
Obasiliasfilosofos 1 year ago
@Obasiliasfilosofos
Jane Lapotaire is the actress portraying Mary, and she was only 42 when this movie was made (interestingly the age Mary was when she died). In this scene, Mary is 37, so the age difference is only five years. It should also be remembered that people did age considerably quicker in the 1500s than they do now, and if anything, Lapotaire was probably doing Mary justice in this scene.
ligreekguy 1 year ago
Where was the castle with the bridge across the moat? I saw it in the Silver Chair one of the Chronicles of Narnia, filmed by the BBC in 1990, but couldn't find the location for it.
MidlandNinja 1 year ago
I find it hysterical when Jane's father comes into the room where his wife is pigging out on those disgusting looking meat chops, and says "Good Lord, are you still eating?" This scene reflects the real Frances Brandon, who was quite overweight, and evidently did a lot of eating in what was already too much spare time on her hands. While the actress portraying Frances is quite good, she simply bears no resemblance to the historical character.
ligreekguy 1 year ago 2
@greekguy, thanks for the history recap. Sure were a lot of heads rolling (down) in proportion to ascension (up) to the throne. Pursuit of power 450 years ago was bloody business--oh wait, it still is today!
khamir49 1 year ago
@khamir49
You said it!
ligreekguy 1 year ago
The problem between Elizabeth and Mary Queen of Scots was that the latter had outlived the four women above her in line for the throne when Elizabeth was queen: Jane Grey was executed in 1554, Frances Brandon died in 1561, Katherine Grey in 1568, and Mary Grey in 1578. Even though the Queen of Scots had been held prisoner in England since 1567, for nine years (1578-1587), she was Elizabeth's next heir. After her execution, her son, James VI of Scotland, was next in line.
ligreekguy 1 year ago
Interestingly, at the time of the death of Henry VIII in 1547, there were seven women next in line for the throne after Edward: his two sisters, Mary and Elizabeth, followed by Frances Brandon (Jane's mother), then Jane, then Jane's two sisters, Katherine and Mary, and finally, Mary Queen of Scots. The Brandon-Grey line was descended from Henry VIII's younger sister Mary, while the Queen of Scots was descended from his older sister Margaret (she came last due to being both foreign and Catholic).
ligreekguy 1 year ago
9:46 poor Jane
me2kool4u181 1 year ago
@me2kool4u181
): I know
Helena does a really good job in that scene
SvuFanForeva93 1 year ago
@SvuFanForeva93 i agree, she does good in every scene. gosh it was upsetting to see her get beat even if it was just acting.
me2kool4u181 1 year ago
@me2kool4u181
It was!!
She's my fav actress. (: Such amazing talent. <33
SvuFanForeva93 1 year ago
@SvuFanForeva93 She's my favorite actress
me2kool4u181 1 year ago
Wow.
That scene was unbelievebly good.
SvuFanForeva93 1 year ago
Protestantism is so bleak and meaningless. I cannot believe they took the religious ornaments from the churches, and transformed them into dinner and serving ware for the wealthy. As a Greek Orthodox, I can only imagine what they would have done to the icons had they managed to get a hold of them: God knows the Ottoman Muslims wreaked enough havoc in that department. This also forms a link between Islam and Protestantism, as both religions forbid imagery. Figures, they are both made up faiths.
ligreekguy 1 year ago
The actress portraying Frances Brandon does the historical figure quite a bit of justice. In reality, Frances was ugly and very overweight.
ligreekguy 1 year ago
I really could not understand one thing. The Catholics had been kind to Jane as a child (and in this movie), but many of the Protestants in her life (including her parents and the Dudleys) treated her like absolute crap. Granted, she did not accept Catholic teachings, but at times, she was so rigidly disrespectful and even hateful toward the Catholic Church. She sort of cooked her own goose by not appreciating those who were good to her and tried to help her.
ligreekguy 1 year ago
@ligreekguy : I am gonna tell you a story: one day Confucius was walking down a street and a boy sat on a wall started trowing stones in Confucius, without any reason or excuse to attack an old defenseless man. Confucius turned to the boy and said: "What GOOD did I do to you, boy?". Such is the human nature. When somebody is good, kind to you, you're sarcastic, evil,many times ungrateful. On the other hand, when other led you to error, you're still faithful to them.
laurids2007 1 year ago
@ligreekguy Have you ever noticed that when the relatives of a child don't appreciate some friendships of their son or daughter, they reprehend them. The child often does not like such critics, goes on in the same path till something bad happens. On the other hand, when a mother likes a certain companionship of their children, their children will avoid that company - only because mother or father appreciate it. I've seen it many times in my life. The name of this in theology is "rebel spirit"
laurids2007 1 year ago
@ligreekguy A rebel spirit doesn't accept or consider a good advice, doesn't follow good examples - has a very characteristic feature: pride, arrogance & ungratefulness. This rebel spirit is now in this new generation (born in the 80s,90s) like it was in the generation of the 60s. This rebel spirit has been punished but doesn't learn with its own mistakes and bad actions. Unfortunately, we learn a good lesson in our lives ONLY when our attitudes dig our own grave.
laurids2007 1 year ago
Frances Brandon was a selfish bitch whose butt would be in jail today if she were alive in a civilized world. Remember, this was the era of slave traders and fanatics who tortured, racked, whipped and burned human beings.
mrhalwes 1 year ago 2
It must be remembered that if they were alive today, people such as Catherine Parr, Edward VI and Jane Grey would be the hard core evangelical Protestants, while Elizabeth I would be a mainline Protestant. The way Jane made fun of the Eucharist was so typical of the snide intolerance of evangelicals today. She obviously was too ignorant to understand that the baker did not make God, but that God gave the priest the power to sanctify the bread. (I am Greek Orthodox, so we observe the same thing).
ligreekguy 1 year ago
@ligreekguy well said. I am Roman Catholic. The heresies of Luther - a former Augustinian monk - made generations leave the real rite, the traditions and respect. This girl was very proud, sarcastic and proud - pretending she had all truth, led by her own way of thinking, without a proper and regular education. Not to mention more of her bad features. History is one thing, what this film shows is pure protestant propaganda of the worst kind. If the protestants denied, they denied Christ & Bible.
laurids2007 1 year ago
@laurids2007
I appreciate your reply! One thing, however, was the film as much of a Protestant propaganda piece as you say? The Catholic priest who pities Jane is certainly depicted in a positive light, and even Mary I is shown as merciful until political circumstances as well as the pressures of those around her (whom are obviously more politically secular than devoutly Catholic) force her hand against Jane. Most of the Protestants in the film are depicted as downright nasty.
ligreekguy 1 year ago
@laurids2007
I am not certain if you saw the movie Elizabeth with Cate Blanchett. THAT was very propagandizing. The most disgusting scene is when the then Princess Elizabeth (during the reign of Mary I) is superficially attending a Catholic mass, and when no one is looking, she spits out the Host that has been placed into her mouth. That scene literally made me shake all over.
ligreekguy 1 year ago
Oh yeah and the Protestants and Catholics said everyone else were uncivilized, oh yeah, whipping a child to the point of almost killing, yep that's civilized uh huh.
mckfrr 1 year ago
What horrible parents, I'm not sure if this happened, by I know back then parents did things like that, but they were whipped themselves, so I guess they thought what they were doing was right, still whipping a kid like that is immoral and horrible and it scars the kids, I'm not talking about spanking, I'm talking about severe whipping.
mckfrr 1 year ago
Cary Elwes, O.M.G! haha <333333
NessaBaybeee 1 year ago
dayummm...I mean, I believe in disciplining a child, but this is just WAAYY too much. Especially since Frances is using her for her own political machinations.
NewDawnFades608 1 year ago 3
Hereafter I will NOT complain about my parents!!! Poor Jane!
100masks 1 year ago 25
Jane has such evil, conniving parents!
ChristandI45 1 year ago
Comment removed
mrhalwes 1 year ago
@mrhalwes umm, I never said anything to you, I only made a general statement that Jane has ridiculous parents..so why did you send me a comment saying:
"@ChristandI45 Have not insulted Europeans, Muslims, southern White slave-owners. Just told the truth about those who were savages. That isn't bigotry. Any part of that you don't grasp?"
ChristandI45 1 year ago
@ChristandI45 That comment should not have been directed to you but another poster.
mrhalwes 1 year ago
@mrhalwes Oh okay....My mistake
ChristandI45 1 year ago
you've got to admit, Jane can sure as hell take a beating. I'm just glad they didn't use Jane's Mother "teaching" technique when I was learning algebra.....
Darthbelal 1 year ago
@Darthbelal Only a scumbag beats another person.
mrhalwes 1 year ago
Wow arrange marriage.
jijikatara02 1 year ago
Jane was not a snob but she was far too young to assume duties of a monarch. Quiet, precocious people may appear "snobs", but that's an unfair assessment. Jane was as much a slave as any field hand. Vicious 16th century Christian parents, whippings, forced marriages.... no different than modern day Taliban patriarchs who treat their women the same way.
mrhalwes 1 year ago
Jane was a slave to her parents, and later the "husband" in a forced marriage (i.e. rape). A brilliant girl, she loved academics, it was her only escape from her cruel parents.
When a bunch of unbathed rednecks hold you down and beat you, you will soon break. Slaves did.
mrhalwes 1 year ago
@mrhalwes Umm yeah, not condoning slavery or anything, but you do know that it has been going on for as long as there have been people on the planet? And, by the way, slavery was not only in the southern states, it was also quite popular in the North.
10beccalee 1 year ago
@10beccalee
I take it you are a Christian. Yes, I am well read in history and anthropology. Slavery has always been practiced because vicious people like rape, blood, torture and stealing. It is still practiced in various forms in most parts of the world, especially primitive Muslim countries and some Christian cults here. Usual cruelties: forced marriages of young girls, severe beatings, rape, wife-beating, beheadings, lapidation, sometimes forced prostitution and human trafficking.
mrhalwes 1 year ago
Lady Jane Grey was a snob just like she is in this film, she was far too quite to be queen she can barely stand up for herself
Kevin2O1ODaly 1 year ago
@Kevin2O1ODaly Why do you say she's a snob? She couldn't stand up fo herself because if she did her paretns beat her. Which you can see in this...or I think it might be the next one. She was a tragic charcter. SHe never wanted to be Queen and yet dies for it.
ImADrWhoAddict 1 year ago
@ImADrWhoAddict
I do pity Lady Jane, and absolutely loathe her auster parents, but she was rather nasty and sassy even to those who were kind to her, or tried to be, such as Dr. Feckenham (the priest), Princess Mary's servant, and even Mary herself. She wasted little time in deriding the Catholic religion despite the fact that the Protestants in her life were absolutely horrible to her.
ligreekguy 1 year ago
@ligreekguy I don't think she was neccessarily trying to be nasty, merely stating her views. perhaps a little forcibly but she was still rather young and dogmatic in her beliefs, not neccessarily knowing the polite subtelty that most adults know
ImADrWhoAddict 1 year ago
@ImADrWhoAddict
I do agree that she was a tragic figure, but Mary takes too much of a bad rap here, as she tried in every way to spare her life. Elizabeth, with her Macchiavellian style politics, would NEVER have given Lady Jane and especially her father another chance! Interesting, but Roger Ascham, the brilliant Cambridge tutor to the royal and noble children, wrote that Jane was far more academically brilliant than all his pupils, including Elizabeth.
ligreekguy 1 year ago
@ligreekguy Hmm maybe if she had more backbone she could have been a more notable figure in history. She was too shortsighted to be aware of what power she could have had. Elizabeth on the other hand, adept at reading situations saw her rule for its possibilities.
booknerd23 1 year ago
@booknerd23
True, but Elizabeth did not have her parents around to manipulate her the way Jane's did. (Anne Boleyn died when Elizabeth was two and a half, Henry VIII when she was thirteen and a half). Moreover, as a direct offspring of a reigning King, Elizabeth was in a far better position than Jane to be giving orders rather than taking them. The only people to whom she had to answer were the monarchs themselves (Henry, Edward, Mary). Jane, on the other hand, had a lot of "bosses".
ligreekguy 1 year ago 2
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Does the movie suggest that Frances and husband had confiscated (er..stolen) some of the gold chalices, plates, relics, when the monasteries were dissolved? No wonder she feared a return to a Catholic England.
mrhalwes 1 year ago
And here's a little piece of light reading for the more or less ignorant folks. I wish they would make one of these for viking myths as well...
Search for "Top 10 Myths About The Middle Ages".
Peacekeeper88 1 year ago
Didn't Jane watch someone burned at the stake?
mrhalwes 1 year ago
@mrhalwes Yes, she saw Anne Askew being burned.
Turefu2 10 months ago
@mrhalwes Yes, she saw Anne Askew being burned.
Turefu2 10 months ago
Frances Brandon was a selfish psycho. Her social and religious community endorsed her cruelty. Frances knew she was giving her child over to rape and marital violence. She knew making Jane Queen could backfire; that "traitor" Jane could be beheaded (or BURNED ALIVE) for treason.
mrhalwes 1 year ago
Movie incorrectly portrays love between Dudley and Jane. She despised him. He likely raped her.
mrhalwes 1 year ago
The plague. No running water. No modern medicine or dentistry. Horrible toothaches. Agony in childbirth. Stench of sticky menstrual blood with just filthy rags. Whipping post, pillory, slave trade. Subjugated wives, both rich and poor classes.... And they called Africans "savages".
mrhalwes 1 year ago
Trashy Europeans in the 1500s did not bathe. They were sick, cruel, filthy and barbaric. If Jane were whipped during her menses, it would have caused hemorrhage. Women - just naked slaves in Christian Europe. Just like how modern Taliban treat their women.
Girls were given in marriage to men who could rape and beat them. They were burned if they killed an abusive husband. They had no rights or opportunities.
mrhalwes 1 year ago
@mrhalwes Trashy Europeans? Well thanks for that.
I have no idea where you're from, but if you're american you most likely are a descentant of those so-called trashy citizens.
The modern america is much closer to the catholic insanity of the dark ages, than "Europe" (which is not one country, but MANY and they are DIFFERENT from each other) is today.
Peacekeeper88 1 year ago
@Peacekeeper88 "The modern america is much closer to the catholic insanity of the dark ages"
As an American, I HIGHLY disagree with this. Majority of people here are Protestant and pretty much most of the big shots in politics/banking are Jewish. A devout traditional Catholic here is about as rare as a four-leafed clover.
Of course, only a jingoistic American would say that Europeans are "trashy" (another statement I disagree with, on so many points).
NewDawnFades608 1 year ago
@mrhalwes Could you add just a little more bigotry into your posts? Goodness knows, we haven't seen enough of it already. So far you have insulted Europeans, Christians, Muslims, and people who live in the South. Would you like to add one more people group into your rant of insults towards everyone who is not exactly like you?
10beccalee 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@10beccalee
Have not insulted Europeans, Muslims, southern White slave-owners. Just told the truth about those who were savages. That isn't bigotry. Any part of that you don't grasp?
mrhalwes 1 year ago
@10beccalee
Have not "insulted" Europeans, Muslims, southern White slave-owners. Just told the truth about those who were vicious to their victims. I'd also tell the truth about Adolf Eichmann, Khomeni, Mohammad Atta, Dr. Mengele, Preston Brooks, Bull Connor, but guess that would be "bigotry" in your eyes.
mrhalwes 1 year ago
Remember the era. Children, slaves, wives, were victims of domestic violence. Whipping and torture were commonplace. Women were burned alive as "witches", or burned for using pain-killers in childbirth (the Christian god wanted screams of agony). Commoners were butchered alive.
mrhalwes 1 year ago
Lady Jane was born into a golden prison. She was as much a slave as a whipped field hand in the South.
mrhalwes 1 year ago
what a veiled threat from the future Bloody Mary!
Vauthier 2 years ago
Jane's mother is ugly as hell...Such a horrible woman!
luc137 2 years ago 5
Could you all imagine living in times like that? Arranged marriages, and also being whipped if you so chose not to do what was requested of you. And the mother seems unloving and unfeeling towars anything except her own family traditions. She doesn't care about Jane in the least. Unfair, but not uncommon for the time.
butterflygottafly 2 years ago 2
Arranged marriages would probably been much more common (and enforced) in the upper classes, as opposed to the general population, as marriage was seen as a way of making political alliances and maintaining wealth & status.
AudreySaxon 2 years ago 2
poor jane, poor edward, i believe they did love each other.
SashalovesErik 2 years ago 13
i hope jane mother and father burn in hell
kerinapetshop 2 years ago 3
ahhhhhhh its wee jane eyre!!!! she totally should of had a career after that series she was amazin!!! zelah was the best jane... as was dalton as rochester...
whatsoccurin100 2 years ago
Jane's mother is awful.
eternaldragon1234 2 years ago 7
i dont think so
BeastoftheBeasts 2 years ago
her mother and father are so horrible, i was practically crying when her mother was hitting her
LuvNudge 2 years ago 6
laughing i was he he i out have said yes the left him
BeastoftheBeasts 2 years ago
God, Helena Bonham Carter has it all. She has that awkward, insecure, pensive Jane with an inner will of iron and strength and and a mind of her own. Her mannerisms are perfect. Why doesn't she have an Oscar yet?
Capricaquarius89 2 years ago 69
That's what I've been wondering all these years, too! Helena is a fantastic actress! GIVE HER AN OSCAR, ALREADY!
AriaInTheSky 2 years ago 5
@Capricaquarius89 one day!!!!!
omaragatha 1 year ago
@Capricaquarius89 Give the girl a dang Oscar people! *dies* She's been around for what, 20 years, give or take a decade? Gah....
AriaInTheSky 1 year ago
@Capricaquarius89
Sit tight, she is up for a Best Supporting Actress award this year for The King's Speech!
ligreekguy 1 year ago
@Capricaquarius89 She's freaky as hell? lol, i have no clue why.
RabidDingoPro 9 months ago
Cary Elwes is related to both Guilford Dudley and Lady Jane Grey (on his father's side). Because Dudley and Grey never had children, Elwes is the direct descendant to Dudley and Grey's siblings: Mary Dudley, Guilford's sister, and Katherine Grey, Jane's sister, who was also the wife of Edward Seymour.
glodsbride86 2 years ago
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MissyHolland 2 years ago
Carrrrryyyyyy Elwweeeessssssssss!!!!
IntoTheSunOfTheCure 2 years ago 40
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PrincessMe1993 2 years ago 3
not in this time period, you would not run away. No where for you to go.
neekorocks 2 years ago 6
I have a studious son..I imagine even now he's with his books or at prayer...
hahabinga 2 years ago 2
And mom wonders why I have an issue with parents commanding respect like this. She believes the ancient "creed" that parents need to do whatever they need to do to force their kids to be obediant. When I adopt children, I would never physically harm them like parents then (and even some parents now). Forced into a marriage and a crown she never wanted by her abusive and ambitious parents, I feel so bad for her. Kids would be a lot better off if parents stopped being such control freaks!
pantherpatty 2 years ago 6
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sporty123456789 2 years ago
jeez!!! they had a whole stand and everything for beating their children!!
VanillaBean130 2 years ago 3
Apparently Jane was whipped quite often. She told someone (I forget who... Roger Ascham, maybe?) that her parents made her do everything perfectly, and if she didn't, she was beaten.
Nacha255 2 years ago
In a sad sense that made her one of the great learned personalities of her time. Well above her peers. One must also remember that she was second in line to the thrown after her mother if one takes in account the Bastard Status of her two cousins. If she had lived long enough she would have in her own right been Queen after Elizabeth. Provided that Henry's will was carried threw to completion. The game was so sad as Jane never needed to go threw what she did. It was hers all along.
regszikora 2 years ago
I heard somewhere that Helena actually allowed the birching to happen.. Just one take of it for the sake of making it look as real as possible if that is true then she is one hell of an actress... That is going above and beyond the call of duty...
Carpentersfan2003 2 years ago
I just love the way Mary is portrayed in this film, I don't know much about her, but the only other portryal I have seen about her was on "Elizabeth" (1998) and they seemed to protray her as a total nut. I like this Mary better.
MitchPR08 2 years ago 2
I do too. It is a more realistic portrayal of the Mary I I have read about. I also love how they portray Edward VI. Both Mary and Edward usually get short shrift in films about Henry VIII or Elizabeth. These characters are much more fleshed out with much more substance.
faeryquene 2 years ago 2
she is so small and she sounds and looks like she really is 15 but she did make this film when she was 20 so it's only a 5 year difference,but still
Icee1996 2 years ago 3
yeah i agree. shes supposed to be 16 in the film but her voice is high pitched is really child like so its ok :)
PrincessMe1993 2 years ago
burn in hell you bitch
Splangy1 2 years ago 3
chop of her head!
azuz6778 3 years ago 2
Which one ?
JennaEss63 2 years ago
poor jane ;(
SasjaYaTebyaLyublyu 3 years ago 3
i just adore marys dress
jammiestoof 3 years ago 4
Me too.
lcecmmkp 3 years ago 2
omg poor jane
she was forced to do most things in her life :(
mrnose111 3 years ago 3
prince edward was really cute
brattyzola 3 years ago 5
I agree-and actor Warren Saire got even cuter as he grew older. :)
faeryquene 2 years ago
Yeah Warren Saire played a Great Edward VI
He is how I always pictured Edward to look like
coreyfeldman2x08 2 years ago 2
I bet he has got cuter but I have not seen any pictures of Warren as he is older
coreyfeldman2x08 2 years ago
He's on Facebook and a few photos pop up if you google them. :)
faeryquene 2 years ago
Cary Elwes. Good Lord, what a beautiful man.
theseveremercy 3 years ago 8
yes, haha. i agree heartily.
SpiritedxAway 3 years ago 4
What abuse! I feel so bad for women back then who had no choice in their mate.
alm260 3 years ago 4
I Love how Francis Brandon is chowing down on the bone like a dog in the beginning of this.
divineswigs 3 years ago
@divineswigs LOL!
lthrlover 1 year ago
OUCH!!!! poor Jane that musat hurt wen her mother whipped her :(
glamgurl1995 3 years ago
Mary Tudor, was bloody Mary... I think. I know she was about 20 years older than Edward. But she certainly wasn't this old, before she took the thrown.
Rowan07001484 3 years ago
Actually she was 37 when she became queen
rjddurhamnc 3 years ago 2
I know but she looks older than that.
Rowan07001484 3 years ago 2
Probably the suffering she had to endure under her tyrant of a father Henry VIII and her brother Edward's Protectorate aged her beyond her years.
faeryquene 2 years ago
Jane was a smart young Lady, I believe she understood all in front of her. She like Elizabeth had a sense of what was the politics. Did it age her, maybe, but I think it was all part of who she really was. She had all the makings of Elizabeth and of Henry, her Grandmother was very astute as well. She really was a chip off the "old block". Her reign if allowed could well have been a Golden Age on it's own or a disaster as Mary's was. We will never know.
I love this it makes me think again
regszikora 2 years ago 2
thats where the drank came from
queenme222 3 years ago
Its a great movie but yet again they missed the Tudor red hair on Mary, Edward and Jane:(
ABoleynFan1505 3 years ago 3
ABoleynFan, Mary did not have Tudor red hair, she had her mother's apearence, Elizabeth had red hair after her father.
suggestimmad 3 years ago 5
Mary did, in fact, have red hair -- but it was not so bright like Elizabeth's and Edward's. It was more an auburn than the red-gold Tudor hair; even Jane's hair was more Tudor than Mary's, but she did nonetheless possess red hair to a degree.
InnateNobility 3 years ago 2
I said that Mary did not have TUDOR red hair, but thanks for the correction anyway, I didn't know that.
suggestimmad 3 years ago
Catherine f Aragon had red hair
iamsmoochums 3 years ago 2