Dueling with Axes in the SCA

[nzman101]

never fought with an axe but i do think of myself as a budding fist fighter, and these guys need to be more aggresive, instead of holding back. follow up constantly instead of simple one hit wonders. just saying.

[Kingonads]

@nzman101 having some dealings with King (Duke) Cuan, I can tell you that he is a VERY, patient fighter. And if I have learned anything from watching, him, Sir Corby, Duke Michael of Bedford, or any of the upper tier knights in Atlantia, is patience and propper footwork will win more fights than flailing wildly. -Sa'id ibn-Ali ibn-Yussef aka The black guy with the mace.

[nzman101]

@Kingonads true flailing wildly is asking to get beat, and maybe they are patient fighters, with a fighting style to suit. But I can't get my head around patient fighting lol

[SirCorby]

@KNIGHTOFSCOTS Cuan is in blue

[BootyBot]

this is cool but are the stupid looking costumes really necessary?

[Khrene]

When they were locked up on one another, instead of wrestling like that, thats when you trip the other guy or drop one hand from your axe and switch to grappling techniques. Grab their axe arm so you have control over their axe and even thier body, Through them on the ground or go for the kill

And then when they were in that lock and were pulling on each other axes, one of them shoulda side stepped and jabbed his axe in the others stomach, or flicked it upwards to hit other guy in the face.

[SirCorby]

@Khrene That all sounds very reasonable and sensible, if any single part of what you suggest was allowed under our rules. though the jabbing would be allowed, "flicking" to the face would have little effect on an armored opponent.

Rather like suggesting that the batter in a baseball game hang on to the bat to knock out the first baseman.

[warc8us]

Those girls should take off their husbands' armor and get back to serving at the beer tent where they belong.

[SirCorby]

@warc8us big words over the internet. I know both those guys and I'm pretty sure either of them could take you down with one hand.

[Khrene]

@SirCorby I dunno both them look really off balanced. They 're both leaning forward alot, so if they got kicked in the legs they'd just fall over like dumbasses. If they moved their legs they have trouble keeping balance wouldn't be able to block anything and end up with an axe in their faces. Long story short even a noob like me can point out their mistakes.

[SirCorby]

@Khrene ok, do please come out to any practice anywhere. I'm sure you'll get an educational welcome.

[Bidmartinlo]

Insults can go far here. >:P

[Envergure]

What does CSA stand for?

[MrHillo1234]

@Envergure It Stand for Society for Creative Anachronism. It's been one of the best things in my 14 year old life, simply because it's taught me very valuable life lessons on Chivalry. If your not into it, I suggest finding the nearest group and see if they have any loaner gear. It's amazing amounts of fun, and i've been doing it for well over 6 years. If you like it, go out and make/buy your own armor. :)

[Cabochon1360]

Ranziel1 -- agreed, calling it a "death" is one of the sillier conventions in the SCA; fortunately we don't always do that. Note that: 1) Our conventions assume we're wearing mail hauberks reinforced with hardened leather; therefore you'd be more likely to have a broken bone than an amputated limb; 2) There are historical instances of men in warfare continuing to fight after losing a limb; 3) In a tournament, a disabling injury would in fact end the fight (and deaths were fairly rare).

[TIRANT00]

2:44 FATALITY

[SxejokeR]

just fucking kick him and axe him in the floor dammit

[SirCorby]

@SxejokeR Of course, the objective is to hit him without getting hit. That's the trick. In our art, kicking is not allowed, in part because a kick just doesn't do much to a man in full armor.

[SxejokeR]

@SirCorby

actually throwing someone armored to the ground does a lot of damage becuase of the wheight thats why samurais used jiu-jitsu.

its nice you don't let the people kick each other.. casue they would kill each other.

are the axes as heavy as real ones?

[SirCorby]

@SxejokeR Having fallen hard to the ground in armor, I can say that this is not true.

Kicking doesn't hurt if you're in armor.

The axes are approximately weighted like real axes.

[HeadRage]

@SirCorby Not damage wise, but it could move him...or make him fall over.

I'm not into SCA that much and I don't really understand it so please don't think I am bashing it, I just don't get it.

[DragonSniper7]

@SirCorby true, but a kick can throw your opponent off balance, i dont think anyone intends to do any damage with a kick

[paleomike8]

I fought SCA for a bit, then fought some boffer guys, and was beating the wholesale asses of the best of them, after less than six months formal training. These two men are likely lethal.

[Darkfeather21]

To all haters on this video: You really think you can take a fully trained SCAdian warrior? Fine. Let me tell Baron Hamish I've found someone who will be a challenge. And if you don't want him, thats fine too. All of you rush me at once. I'll pick you off at 50 yards.

[kevinburnsrules]

this looks so much fun

[LutefiskSavage]

That'd be the North East corner of An Tir, funtionally the head from the thrusting hook on the heel of tha axe blade to the hammer on the back side is all one continuous striking surface. As it would be on a real weapon. The trick is getting the blade itself stiff enough that you can thrust with it but not so stiff that it can't be chopped with. Oh and it occurs to me that between the hammer head and the thrusting tip there is an interruption in the strikig surface.

[LutefiskSavage]

With my previous axe I have concussed people by accident because the haft was too fatigued to control and would store energy untill I grew frustrated with people ignoring my blows at what WAS good power and amped it up so that the wood would now release the energy into my target, like the snap of a bow limb throwing an arrow. I have a real axe that I modeled my rattan one off of and it can cut mail and crush armour quite handily, at SCA power blows, let alone break or cleave limbs.

[ponyfang]

I love how the people commenting assume this is wimpy.. Alright I've been up against a fella with an SCA axe and held them they wiegh same as the real thing. (I own one) Plus I don't think you guys have a clue. We go once a week or so to fighting meets. and could whoop anyone of you on the spot SCA IS the most realistic experience in my opinion even more so than live steel because thats all rehearsed. Just my two cents. You guys need to do some research before you say how big you are.

[welk0metohell]

Most boring duel ever.

[TheSteelMe]

ah man give me a brake use steel axe's dont be a bunch of whimps

i bet u gan beat the 2 of u becouse i use steel weapons and i have seme skill ( the thing that u miss )

[dukelogan]

@TheSteelMe so which little 140lb kids are you in your video where you "massacre" the little juice boxes? i must say, your skill in those videos is.... ummm... remarkable. really really remarkable. as soon as youre old enough you might think about trying some sca sport combat. you might like it and im sure you will find fighting men to be more satisfying than fighting water filled juice boxes. or not, i dont know.

[TheSteelMe]

@dukelogan ive got some more recent vids im gona upload but im bulking up so i can release them 1 per week

and im a sword fichter for reenactment s ficht with stwwel swords not some stupid wooden ones

i also have a haff armour witch is battle ready

ive studeyed Lichtenhouwer witch is a german style ( also dit some sord of kendo for haff a year )

[SirCorby]

@TheSteelMe Put up or shut up. A hoodie is not half armor. You're insulting people who have been practicing their art for longer than you've been alive.

[ishouldplayzelda]

@TheSteelMe what SCAdians do is not choreographed, that's why it's so much more awesome that whatever you do

[ishouldplayzelda]

@TheSteelMe these are rubber. they're just as heavy and handle the same as steel but cost a hell of a lot less. what your saying makes no sense, why would they pay hundreds of dollars just to use steel? just so they can say they use "real" axes? i'm assuming that you have a tiny penis and you get an ego boost because you use steel instead of wood and rubber

[daneredaxe]

@TheSteelMe will you also beat them with your "mad grammah skilzz"? mahbe u shod hve finshed 1rst grade, oh mighty intelligent one.

[tina6581]

Hopefully at some point these two will have someone teach them to use the axe correctly. Pathetic

[kittymime]

it looks like it really hurt if the axe his ur hand

[LutefiskSavage]

your hafts seem a bit short for my taste, but workable. as it says in Le jeu d'le hache stike first, often, and relentlessly. I don't know if your particular weapons are set up for "normal" use but a real dane axe would have been fought with all surfaces active, so should you. make the blade so that a thrust can be made with the blade point or a hook with the heel of it, a thrusting tip on the hammer side and one on the end of the que. then use la jeu de la hache.

[ponyfang]

@LutefiskSavage Im not one hunred percent that these are dane axes. The axe head looks it but the haft seems more of a polearm. Perhaps its a mix of the two. Dont see why that would be illegal. But good job noticing it.

[LutefiskSavage]

@ponyfang I fight in the SCA with a similar set up weapon except mine has thrusting top and bottom of the blade, a hammer on the back of the eye, a thrusting tip coming out of the haft, and a butt spike. The whole weapon weighs about 4 pounds at 5 foot 8 compare that to the dane axe manufactured by Arms and armour out of Wisconsin. Functionally the pollaxe and dane axe are the same, and yeah in the SCA both weapons are severely underestimated.

[ponyfang]

@LutefiskSavage What kingdom?

[SirCorby]

@ponyfang This was in Atlantia.

[LutefiskSavage]

both of you try leading with the que of your axes, hold your upper hand near the blade and use the que to thrust at and maneuver your opponent's axe out of the way for a follow up blow with the head of the axe. also from a forward stance try thrusting with the toe of the axe into the face or whatever seems convenient on your opponent. Set up properly, the crook in the top of the axe can catch incoming shots, consider it a buckler with a quarter staff attached.

[Ketilbiorn]

0:13-0:50 Are they trying to stare each other to death? xD

[Xollob2]

I'm sure there are all sorts of factors i'm not taking into account here, but this was an incredibly boring video, since when do people weild axes like fishing rods.

[dasgregorian]

That's what I never liked about SCA... I understand why hand shots don't count... but shots below the knee don't count.. head shots don't count, but face shots do!? So much "doesn't count" that the ONLY way to fight is sword and shield... hold the shield over everything that counts and bump into eachother wildly trying to wrap the other person.

... takes the skill out of fighting.

[JVRottweil]

@dasgregorian head shots do count. not just the face. but yeah the belly to belly wrapping is silly IMHO

[ishouldplayzelda]

@dasgregorian maybe the barony you were fighting in has a different policy on headshots. the one i fight in has the same policy for hands and below the knees (i don't understand that one, it should be hands and feet) but anywhere else is a valid shot (except for the back which i can understand). policies vary from place to place, some places suck and others are more lenient

[SirCorby]

@ishouldplayzelda The baseline of rules are the same everywhere in the SCA.

[ishouldplayzelda]

@SirCorby well then i guess my barony doesn't follow all the hit rules

[SirCorby]

@ishouldplayzelda I'm not trying to start an argument, but I must mention for others reading this who are trying to learn about SCA combat: the Society level rules are not optional. Every SCA group at every official event must use the Society's base rules set, including regarding target areas & blow acknowledgment. This is one of our strengths, which, for example, allows me to get on a plane with my armor here in Virginia, fly to anywhere there is an SCA group, and be able to fight with them.

[ishouldplayzelda]

@SirCorby i know you weren't starting an argument, i was merely replying to your response :)

[DomusUlixes]

Advice for all, the one who has the initiative has the lead. Problem 2. The first attack of red: not on target.

Where is all the wrestling moves. You could easily disable one another in this fight! Why don't they?

[KrahulikIsGod]

@DomusUlixes Because it wouldn't be fun, dude. Hurling another guy to the ground and then ferociously battering him into submission is a dick move.

[DomusUlixes]

@KrahulikIsGod You don't ferociously batter someone that is lame. You just keep him in full control with two fingers.

Ferociously battering is probably the worst tactic existing. you could easily make a scissor hold.

[ghostface320]

that was the stupidest fight i have ever scene if i wanted to watch two retards stand there with axes and do absolutely nothing i would have killed myself

[Snuggles15]

@ghostface320 well first off it couldn't have been any ''stupider'' than your grammer. and second its seen,not scene. and third if you kill yourself you stand there with retards with axes doing nothing?

[Samson82UK]

please change name for a duelling with axe shaped toys because i wasted 3 minutes of my life

[HELLZONE7745]

one of them should have just hooked the axes together and throw them aside and tackle and wrestle

[chooseit2]

@HELLZONE7745 whats the point of that they are both wearing armour their punches wouldn't do much

[paleomike8]

How did you guys make those axes? They look real.

[ShotGlassINC]

I'm seeing a lot of negativity on this video. Please people try it before you judge it. I'm actually thinking of joining the SCA myself.

[smeigaldavis]

this was painful to watch. and verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr­rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry boring.

[OenghusLok]

@smeigaldavis

I notice no matter who is fighting or what they are doing you are very disrespectful. This drains the credibility from your opinion, and remember its just your opinion.

[skwuig]

I'd like to seem them try this with re-enactment axes. Not these ultra-lightweight larp axes.

[SirCorby]

These are neither ultra-lightweight nor larp axes. I've held similar axes to these. They weigh about the same as a steel axe.

[AKmacintosh]

@SirCorby ouch! don't they hurt a lot?

[SirCorby]

@AKmacintosh That's what the armor is for. But yes, taking a good hit is going to sting, at least.

[Knightsquire74]

That is very true Ranziel1. But with the SCA the pain is still there. But the physical injuries are not. As an SCA Heavy Weapons fighter. I have given my share of bruises and taken a a bunch. I myself as do all SCA fighters know that the Pain is in small amount and you heal quickly the most anyone as ever gotten was a broke bone. No real deaths from our fighting that I know of.

[ajko000]

WOW THOSE ARE SHARP

-.-

omg and i love th heavy chainmail and armor

-.-

[k77jones]

boring.

[foiran]

right

[Ranziel1]

You would die or be completely disabled of pain shock if you got your limb cut off. Adrenalin only goes so far, it can't make you immune to pain.

[daneredaxe]

@Ranziel1 i agree with you, but how much fun is it to die every time you get hit? not much, this just adds more excitement to the fight, at the cost of realism.

[Ralphinsc]

Strap on then. Both are fairly well known and easy to find. Good luck trying.

[filoviridae07]

"SCA," "historically accurate," and "realistic" don't belong in the same same paragraph. Realistic techniques can maim and kill even with rattan. They make full use of grappling, target the whole body, and require whole body power, not "whip shots." These flaws are, of course understandable, as no sane person wants to kill or permanently disable a competitor. The unrealistic parts are many, but the worst is thinking you could continue fighting after your limb is amputated. That, and "chivalry

[AnhiGen]

I beg to differ. If your life was on the line you would slash could ingore what you wanted. Granted your survival after the fight or when ever it is you get to safety, is at an all time low considering their medical techniques and your loss of blood, but still during the fight... you would be game.

[humabout]

Well, there's the big problem of bleeding out. If you had your leg cut off, without movement, you'd die within 30 seconds. Struggling and such, you'd only elevate your heartrate, which would cause you to bleed that much more copiously.

[Darinor]

But you would have to be pretty strong to chop through steel plate, chainmail, padding, a leg, padding, chainmail and steel plate. So in far the most cases a clean strike would mean either crushing dmg or a flesh wound. You should be able to fight on with a few of those and plenty of adrenalin.

[AlienZygote010]

i think ARMA is more to your liking. that is the recreation of the original european martial arts from old manuals and such. as an old school martial artist, i have a lot of respect for those guys. they know their stuff.

[Cabochon1360]

There's certainly something to be said for the idea of a "counted blows" system.

[Manajuice]

In all surviving depictions of fighters wielding dane axes (and their equivilents) the combatants wielded them left handedly to get past shields. I thought the SCA was all about authenticity...

[Kingonads]

Duke Cuan, one of those unnaturally fast fighters. I love fighting against him. I already am slow.. but he makes my defence faster.

[wcanne]

Well fought. Polearms are my favorite!

-Clewin

[ErikTributsch]

Nice! Fighting with axes.... in my history I figth an showfight with two akes in each hand. Close combat is not my thing, I make only showfight for theater,tv an film.... but your battle is real... respekt :-)

greets

Erik

[jamescohen1]

that first head shot looked like it would've split his skul... and as for all the standing around in the beginning... i could understand if they were really dueling, but come on!

[SirCorby]

not sure which head shot you're referring to, but I don't think anyone missed anything in this fight. And if you think they're "just" standing around in the beginning, you've missed something.

[Kingonads]

SirCorby is right. I know the gentleman in the blue, Duke Cuan, he doesnt just stand around... he is working up a plan. Let him stand there long enough and he will have beat you 3 or 4 times before you throw your first shot. And as for the first head shot. It didnt have anything on it. It looked solid but he was moving out of the shot, and the angle was off. So the force of the blow would have never penetrated the helm.

[tiree2]

You're considered to be wearing an open faced helm, if that shot hit you in the face, even if it was "light", since axes are a MASS weapon and should be treated as such, you'd be done. I can't tell if it hit the face or the side of the head, but if it was a face hit, it probably should have been considered good. Too many people forget what they're supposed to "pretend" they're wearing. Not everyone can afford the nice, quality metal armour that makes many hits feel lighter than they are.

[Kingonads]

That IS the question is where the shot landed. But that is also where this "sport"/"Game" has its biggest difference... HONOR... it was on the HONOR of the person recieveing the blow to accept the blow.

[SirCorby]

The shot you refer to was clearly on the side of the helm

[seanw23]

@SirCorby any of you "knights of the round table" thought about improvising on your technique?

add a lil new-age style to your fight, spice things up... -.-

[SirCorby]

@seanw23 No idea what you mean by "improvising" or "New age." we re-invent the methods of fighting with period weapons, or at least as much as that can be done without actually injuring each other. (We don't hook limbs with axes, for example, because that would risk dislocations and breaks.)

SCA fighting grew out of an improvised, self-taught tradition, not from early fecthbuch guides.

In short, we hope we are fighting as they did, but don't look to surviving documentation for our guide.

[seanw23]

@SirCorby add a lil ninja style, some kung fu.

work that axe like a bo staff.

[lehapankov]

@SirCorby like they did? these are pussy fighters, only girls would fight like that

[Dimitri0809]

@tiree2

Axes are difficult to use anyway, Swords are much more versatile and easier to use they may not do as much damage as an axe but it's a lot lighter and easier to strike enemy targets with.

Besides you don't need the mass of an axe to take down an opponent anyway, with such a small blade size not many swordsman bothered to use axes...