Robert Fisk on Democracy Now 1of4

[BelfastAtheist]

Fisk is my top Journalistic authority, I love his talks. Goodman makes for some questions too.. both fantastic Journalists.

[saqsex]

SHAME ON PAKISTAN FOR SENDING IT'S FORCES TO BAHRAIN.TO HELP YAZID AND HIS REGIME.WHO HAVE MASCARED AND COMITTED THE WORST NITOCROTIES IN THE 21ST CENTURY IN ARABIC PENSULVIA.SHAME ON ZARDARI.GILLANI AND OTHERS WHO SUPPORTED THIS STEP.HOW WOULD FEEL IF GEN.KAYANI DOES THE SAME WITH PPP.SHAME ON YOU .YOU MONGERS FOR MONEY.YOU HAVE MURDERED THE VISSION OF ZULIFIQAR ALI BHUTTO AND BENAZIR BHUTTO.YOU AND YOUR PARTY CLAIMS TO BE PPP OF Z.A.BUTTO NAD B.BUTTO SHAME ON YOU FOR SENDING TROOPS TO BAHRAIN.

[MrJiddukrishhesse]

robert fisk is a blessing to journalism!!

[zephonlucifer]

@idontwantohurtnobody thats so contradictory to your SN dude. EPIC FAIL.

[BloggerMusicMan]

One great journalist interviewing another great journalist. Absolutely awesome.

[PloughTheSky]

I invite people to make some research about Bin Laden, starting with Wikipedia on 'Osama Bin Laden' and 'Osama Bin Laden's beliefs and ideology' and then exploring the sources..

[BarfObama]

Thank you for the invitation

[CarringtonVilla]

Hey I remember seeing you:

Why don't everybody go to faith freedom international (dot) org and see the silent revolution

[PloughTheSky]

Fisk is really amazing. I love this guy.

I like how he talks about Osama Bin Laden as a person, instead of a demonish myth. It's amazing when he talks about the man's personality, spirituality and beliefs... Not that it gives excuses to Bin Laden's actions, but it's a bit of fresh air to get a grasp of who this man actually his, as he is habitually painted as evil incarnate in an amazingly imaginatory and mythological fashion. It's good to have a more concrete image of him.

[Venomonia]

@PloughTheSky Well all i can say is the Arabs and the Vs created this evil, dont forget that!!

[callieland]

i think the arabs are closer to the truth on dreamolgy

[callieland]

the afghans fought bravely on horseback against the soviet war machine. ya gotta give em that much.

[callieland]

i dont know about that. its pretty widely admitted now that we were shipping thousands of those shoulder fired missiles to the mujahadeen. you know the old saying..."the enemy of my enemy is my friend"

[callieland]

agreed

[callieland]

bin laden is probably drinking vodka in the basement of the whitehouse, playing texas hold-em with cheney and watching porn with bush.

[sushi81]

Lol!!! We all think alike. :D

[callieland]

which part? bin laden drinking vodka in the whitehouse?

[inthebluescrossroad]

the simpe truth is that a country dosnt invade anotherone if not for self-interest...the war in iraq is illegal ...we should judge Bush condie and cheney just like we did those NAzis!

[Omer698]

the case would be thrown out in a second

[inthebluescrossroad]

your right,it would be thrown out...we control the UN. we have proven that its rules only apply to whom and at a time we deem appropriate or necessary.

[CarringtonVilla]

Faith Freedom International

Check it

[trance2307]

Robert Fisk is a legend. I absolutely idolize this man.

[NoGuff]

"Then where does it come from"

--Military press office is just one source. There are reporters & their sources, embedded reporters, etc. Need I write a paper about reporting just for you? Liberals always ask questions with the intellectual level of a 4th grader.

"how am i a terrorist sympathizer"

--When you side with terrorists. You don't realize that you are one of those the terrorists want to kill.

"has deluded views of your country"

--How would you know living in Ireland?

[NoGuff]

Great. An anti-American, anti-Western Socialist who badmouths the country and culture that affords him the safety, security, and big paychecks he makes, talking on the Communist-mouthpiece "news" channel. So what else is new? I'm sure there's a contract waiting for him at New York Magazine or The New Yorker. They love people like him; hypocrite, elitist Limousine Liberals.

[NoGuff]

"he doesn't badmouth america. their actions highlighted by Mr Fisk just prves it. If there is a muslim to be badmouthed he would show no hesitation to do so."

--Don't make me laugh.

[NoGuff]

"But if you want to listen to bill o reilly then go ahead."

--Gee, I now have your permission? Thanks a lot. I'd rather listing to someone who isn't lying and subverting his own nation in favor of its enemies.

And FYI: O'Reilly's show is commentary, not a news program, dum-dum.

[NoGuff]

"has a neurtal part in most of his reports"

--Neutral?

"This man has seen the devistation and face the west has made for the middle east"

--That's not biased against the West? Please stop being a terrorist sympathizer.

"All sources in American media about Iraq is given its sources from military intelegence"

--Lie.

[trollfinger]

Then where does it come from ? and don't throw the words terrorist sympathizer. how am i a terrorist sympathizer ? you are the one who has deluded views of your country. your like America....the person haha asshole

[AAmed1980]

No Guff, your an idiot.

[danny123xvz]

anti american? what like anti soviet? since when is critizing policy critizing a nation? goverment policies and nations are not the same thing.

[NoGuff]

"anti american? what like anti soviet? since when is critizing policy critizing a nation? goverment policies and nations are not the same thing."

--Please provide a specific comment you're replying to. Otherwise I'll have to answer that government policies and nations are the same thing, government policies and the People are different things.

[danny123xvz]

you would have made the perfect nazi. don't answer you bore me.

[NoGuff]

"you would have made the perfect nazi"

--Ahhh yes! The ONLY real response from a Liberal; call the other guy a Nazi. That's all you people have. You are all pathetic losers!

[danny123xvz]

i'm not a fuckin liberal, i'm an anachist i believe in the downfall of all goverments, where as you are a slave to other mens orders, if u talk like a facist with "we conquer we own" bullshit then what the fuck do u expect!

[NoGuff]

"i'm not a fuckin liberal, i'm an anachist"

--Anarchists are Liberals without brains. If all governments fall, where are you going to get your unemployment checks & food stamps that you've been living off of all this time?

"a facist with "we conquer we own" bullshit"

--That's the way the world works, and has worked, always. If you don't like it, move to another planet.

[danny123xvz]

what do you mean "unemployment cheques" i would just kill people like u ~:)

[danny123xvz]

haha like its working in iraq haha you've just had your arse handed to u by a few thousand rebels just as you did in veitnam hahahahhahahah down with the fuckwit empire

[NoGuff]

"like its working in iraq"

--We're not there to acquire land, we're there to stabilize Iraq & region.

"you've just had your arse handed to u by a few thousand rebels"

--When?

"just as you did in veitnam"

--You have a completely wrong impression of what happened in Vietnam because all you know about it are lies. The facts are that US forces won every engagement with the enemy. But Liberal (Communist sympathizing) politicians in Congress did everything they could to subvert the war effort.

[danny123xvz]

"america won every battle in veitnam" hahaha, Stabilize the region" fuck you are total deluded.the american elite doesn't give a fuck about stability it wants control of the oil no more, anyone who thinks any different is slave to their masters propaganda, dance to the tune of your masters and betters slave boy haahaha "never was their a worse master nor a better slave"

[NoGuff]

"'america won every battle in veitnam' hahaha"

--As with every Anarchist (an irrational & childish philosophy) you have nothing to counter the truth but "hahaha," as expected.

"it wants control of the oil no more"

--And do they have it? No. Proving my statement.

All you've got are brainless quips that sound good at your basement pot parties. But they hold no weight with rational people. Get a life.

[danny123xvz]

i could give you ten examples of battles america lost in veitnam i laughed because your statment was so dumb, the reason they don't control the oil is because the war in iraq has been a total faliure and you will soon leave having achieved nothing more than 500,000 corpses, but to someone like you, you would see that many humans dying as something cheer about.

[NoGuff]

"the reason they don't control the oil is because the war in iraq has been a total faliure"

--Ooohhh, well, you've got an excuse for EVERYTHING, don't you? That's what I love about Liberal talking points. Even though there's no truth to them doesn't mean you're wrong. Right?

"to someone like you, you would see that many humans dying as something cheer about"

--Of course, what ever you say.

[danny123xvz]

battles america lost in veitnam

1) A Shau, march 9, 1966

2)AP Bac, january 2, 1963

3)Bin Gia, 1966

4) Pleiku, feb 6, 1965

i could name 20 more battles you lost but i can't be bothered look yourself nazi boy

[NoGuff]

"A Shau"

--A camp, not a fort. 400 men (17 of which were US forces) defended their position FOR THREE DAYS against an enemy attack of more than 2000 men. In the end 12 US servicemen & 47 S.V. servicemen were killed, and OVER 800 NVA killed.

Under any circumstances, an attacking force like that against an encampment that small would call for an immediate withdrawal. Bad weather prevented it initially, but it was done.

I'd say the NVA got their asses whupped by 17 Green Berets, Jack!

[1samothrace77]

sure we're there for good reasons wink wink

[faisalrais]

We need more people like Robert Honest Journalist

[JRBeaman]

The supreme power lies in the vote, but the vote is not the supreme power. Mob rule is where the majority of the people voting are supposed to win. That is democracy defined.

We are not a piece of what we do, we are all of what we do. To pick out one piece, the voting part, does not change the truth of what we are. Hitlers minister of propaganda said that a lie told often enough becomes accepted as truth. You have heard we are a democracy by very shallow logic too many times.

[JRBeaman]

Alexander Fraser Tyler wrote: "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can exist only until the voters discover they can vote themselves largess (defined as a liberal gift) out of the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that democracy always collapses over a loose fiscal policy, always to be followed by a dictatorship."

[JRBeaman]

One more thing chainmail101, The platform of the democratic party reads almost identical as that of the comunist party. Go read them some time.

[JRBeaman]

No, chainmail101 , we are not a democracy. You have been lied to, over and over and over till you believe that we are because of some advertised similarities on a very few points that they share because they know your attention span is short. Read more ----

[JRBeaman]

Alexander Hamilton was aware of this tendency of a democratic form of government to be torn apart by itself, and he has been quoted as writing:

"We are now forming a Republican form of government. Real Liberty is not found in the extremes of democracy, but in moderate governments. If we incline too much to democracy, we shall soon shoot into a monarchy, or some other form of dictatorship."

[JRBeaman]

A. Ralph Epperson:

It is generally conceded that even a monarchy or a dictatorship is an oligarchy, or a government run by a small, ruling minority.

Such is also the case with a democracy, for this form of government is traditionally controlled at the top by a small ruling oligarchy. The people in a democracy are conditioned to believe that they are indeed the decision-making power of government, but in truth there is almost always a small circle at the top making the decisions for the entirety.

[JRBeaman]

democracy:"a government of the masses. Authority derived through mass meetings or any other form of direct expression. Results in mobocracy. Attitude towards property is communistic-negative property rights. Attitude toward law is that the will of the majority shall regulate, whether it is based upon deliberation or governed by passion, prejudice and impulse, without restraint or regard to consequences. It results in demagogism, license, agitation, discontent, anarchy."

US Army Training Manual

[JRBeaman]

republic: "a form of government in which supreme power resides in a body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by elected officers and representatives responsible to them and governing according to law." Websters Unabridged Dictionary

[JRBeaman]

Part 1 ...

"Once a nation becomes a democracy, the whole purpose of government changes. Instead of the government's goal being that of guaranteeing liberty, equal justice, private property, and voluntary exchange, the government embarks on the impossible task of achieving economic equality, micromanaging the economy, and protecting citizens from themselves and all their activities. " (Continued..)

[JRBeaman]

Part 2 ...

" ... The destruction of the wealth-building process, which is inherent in a free society, is never anticipated. Once it's realized that it has been undermined, it is too late to easily reverse the attacks against limited government and personal liberty."

--Ron Paul

[oclandestin]

Robert Fisk speaks alot of truth. A much-needed voice in the darkness of the media in this so-called 'war on terror'.

[JRBeaman]

The man makes no sense!

Don't chase Bin Laden because he already exists?

Yeah, like we shouldn't have chaed down Hitler.

Anal idiots with nothing to do but make up crap ideas and discuss them like a buncha people on acid pretending to be important.

[JRBeaman]

HEY STUPID!

We are a Republic, NOT a democracy.

Democracy is mob rule.

Go read a dictionary and our constitution.

Buncha dumb fucks.

[kmarkymark]

yeah ask edward bernays and walter lippman

[chainmail101]

the two aren't mutaly exclusive...

[JRBeaman]

chainmail101: you dont get it.

[chainmail101]

Well technically speaking America is both a republic and a democracy. The term democracy just denotes free elections, freedom of press and speech and many of the other things your country prides itself on (and quite rightly of course. However, when you overthrew the British colonial rule you also became a republic in the simplest sense of the term.

If I'm missing an important point please clarify for me o_0

[JRBeaman]

chainmail101 : Because you use democratic process in some functions doen't make the country a democracy. Show me one document, Our declaration of Independance, Our Counstitution, our Bill of rights, and even the Federalist Papers where the word democracy is used in any way to define our country. Can't. Ain't there. We are a republic, and if you don't know the difference, like so many college professors and these potheads on the video, then you need to go to a different school.

[chainmail101]

Just because America doesn't clame in any documents to be a democracy doesn't nessecarily mean that it isn't one.

It's like if I were to place an apple in front of you and call it a pear does it stop being an apple? No. Naming something doesn't affect what it really is. Or at least thats how I make sense of it.

If America stands by all the ideals of Democracy, namly freedom of vote, freedom of Press, freedom of association how can you claim it isn't a democracy?

[JRBeaman]

chainmail101 : No, America makes no claim to be any kind of democracy. Only the leftist politicians keep calling it that, and the media. But as Hitlers minister of propaganda once said.. "A lie told often enough appears to be the truth." You have been duped with a simpleton explanation and fallen for it. We are not and never have been a democracy. The ideals of a democracy is mob rule, period.

[JRBeaman]

chainmail101 : ".. how can you claim it isn't a democracy?"

The united States of America were established as independent republics. This is why the constitution in Article IV reads:

Article IV, Section 4. The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a republican form of government, and shall protect each of them against invasion, and on application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislatures cannot be convened), against

domestic violence.

[chainmail101]

You seem to be stuck on the concept the democracy is the same thing as mob rule. Unfortunately what you fail to take into account is the fact that there is more then one type of democracy. Do me a favor and go to Google, then type in 'Representative democracy'. Tell me how this term doesn't describe the American system of government perfectly.

[chainmail101]

Furthermore, the denotation of the word 'republic' is simply: a state in which the supreme power rests in the body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by representatives chosen directly or indirectly by them. Now if you actually bothered to look at the meaning of a representative democracy you'll find that the two aren't mutually exclusive and that the American system of government falls equally into each descriptor.

[chainmail101]

Now finally i simpally ask that you check out the main wikipedia artical on 'democracy'. scroll down half the page to where it reads ''Democracy and Republic''.

It states quite simply and clearly referenced that in the 18th century, the same time your constitution was written the term , 'Republic' means the exact same system of government as we now refer to today as a 'Representative Democracy'.

[JRBeaman]

chainmail101: Wikipedia is a collection of input by people that choose to contribute their personal opinions what the definition of something is, not necessarily what the facts and truth on the subject is. It's called popular opinion, not fact.

[JRBeaman]

chainmail101: NO, A republic is not where the supreme power is in the vote, but the Law. I know what a representitive democracy just as well as I know what socialism is. Turning our republinto a democracy is treasonist in the least, in my opinion.

[JRBeaman]

chainmail101 : I am not stuck on it, it is by the definition of our founding fathers and many scolars to be exactly that. I can give you many examples, but the space here is limited. Read:

w3f(.)com/patriots/democracy.h­tml

It is quite obvious that you think I dreamed up all the postings I made here, no they were all written by people that are wiser than us 2 put together.

[JRBeaman]

chainmail101 : A representitive republic of law that uses some democratic processes does not make it a democracy. I could say thet you are a banana because you share 98% of the same DNA as a banana too. Are you a banana? No, and we are not A Democracy. The definitions and notes by those that built this country defined it to what it is, not later political meddling.

[chainmail101]

In regard to wikipedia. Please note the little blue numbers reference works that can be seen at the bottom of the page. Please follow them through before claiming that The 'view' (while ti is in fact a statement as opposed to a view) expressed is ill founded and subjective.

So it seems that we agree (once again correct me if I'm wrong) that America makes use of democratic ideals, processes and terminology. In that case the argument can really be summed up in one thing...

[chainmail101]

You are arguing pure semantics.

You claim that despite America acting in every way a democracy does it simply isn't a democracy because of a few things it does that a democracy doesn't do.

"The definitions and notes by those that built this country defined it to what it is, not later political meddling." is your claim, you seem to ignore my previous point that when your countrymen deemed the USA a republic their definition was exactly the same as a modern day representative democracy.

[chainmail101]

Your claim that a republic is supreme power of the law as opposed to supreme power of the vote (as in democracy) is completely true. So their are discrepancies between the two.

But consider the constitutional democracy which places the power of the vote in the hands of the people but the power of the law in the hands of the elected government.

Sounds like the American governmental system doesn't it. While your constitution claims to be a republic you are a constitutional democracy in action

[LordFlagg]

I like Rob-Ro :S. Im quite liberal on the Israel-Palestine question but I respect his works- in the same way I respect Tom Gross.

[4ourthofjuly]

try not to say "jew slime" in public. you wouldnt want anyone to figure out youre a hateful halfwit.

[davidmesaaz]

Democracy Now condemns the corporation and its influence in society yet receives its funding from the Ford Foundation the charitable arm of one of the largest corporations in the world Ford Motor Company.

Ford Foundations assets come from stock held in the Ford Motor company therefore as people buy more SUV and trucks, it receives more money the higher the stock price goes and the more money it gives to Democracy Now. Maybe they should say support Democracy Now buy an SUV.

[fileboy2002]

You are right. The fact Democracy Now gets money from a foundation with ties to corporate America--THE only real source of funding for anything--proves everything they say and stand for is nonsense.

[CacaLauncher23]

i've read comments by this guy and based on the amount of shortcuts i saw from him, he is a complete moron.

[1DX2020]

can you clarify a little more on why you think is a complet moron?

[4ourthofjuly]

your name means shit launcher?

why do you get out of bed in the morning?

[Nounismisation]

I sincerely wish there were more Rob Fisk types about with a public platform. (Gave Blair an exacting pasting too which was fun)

[Nounismisation]

What 'Jew Slime' like Chomsky etc etc ? I bet Said must have really confused you. Very basically there are good guys with humankind's interests at heart and then there are bad guys who think that consolidated power can be more than personal vice. Perhaps too concise but you must get the point.

[o0xst]

Robert Fisk is a great man

[MonkeyMagic88]

I'm not going to play it safe and be politically communistically correct.ROBERT FISK is a double faced Anglo who plays both sides of the fence but is really on the side of the*jEW-World-Order*.Al-CIA-Da not Al Quaida exists,where is Bin Laden?Not interested in him are they. Can you say 9-11 INSIDE JOB?! .GOVNN dot COM.

[dougzilla]

Boy you are a nob.

[MonkeyMagic88]

doug grow up,the government is full of scum controlled by jEWZ of the lowest kind (CHERTOFF) If you don't know that by now then wake the fuck up before you open your big ignorant mouth.

[dougzilla]

correction:

Boy you are a racist, parnoid lunatic.

[tsosumi]

it's because MonkeyMagic thinks that there's a "fence" and "two sides" that he will rave and rant no matter what you say or point out. The only hope we have is of making the voice of reason, that I believe is the majority, heard at all available opportunity.

[infoseekr]

problem is he has not pointed anything out.

with exception of an opinion, of monkeymagic

character.... sadly uninformed sheeple and/or intentional NEO-CONs like dougzilla often resort

to these types of attacks...

"namecalling"

pretty pathetic... as it illustrates they have no points to make.

[dougzilla]

Well excuse me pinhead (more name calling).

Your little buddy made a racist, nonsensical, lunatic attack on Robert Fisk . I point this out and you call me a "sheeple" and a "NEO-CON".

I suggest that you should stop smoking crack or pot or whatever it is and try to start using your brain again.

If guys like you were not so pathetic, you would be scary.

[Nounismisation]

Perhaps monkeymagic is just here to annoy everyone

[Spampoems]

Are some of the most powerful and corrupt men in the world Jewish? YES. Do they use the sympathy and Guilt caused by the Holocaust? YES. Does this reflect on the average Jew? NO. Does Jeffry Dahlmer and Ted Bundy mean all whites are evil? Does Idi Amin mean all blacks are bad? Pol Pot? Chairman Mao? Even if all the evil men in the world are Jews, it doesn't mean all Jews are evil.

[neilemac]

Robert and Amy are a couple of my favourite journalists of all time... thanks for the view.

neilemac