Will Self warms my heart briefly until I hear the over privileged using unqualified vapid platitudes to justify the unjustifiable, and as always they get away with it. Shame on Britain, its not the bankers to blame, its us. The measure of a politician's success is their ability to say one thing and getting away with doing the opposite. If the entire country voted this would not be the case. The banks will stay private. The NHS will be next. After that... The MOD?
@densaner77 China have pretty much cornered manufacturing. The gap is too large for us to claw back now. But, 'making things' doesn't necessarily have to mean manufacturing. What we're good at now is design; we can create the things for the industrial nations to manufacture. Companies like ARM are a leading light and demonstrate where our talents lie. It's the likes of Japan who we should be measuring ourselves against.
@CheDonJohn "It's the likes of Japan who we should be measuring ourselves against" - Not really. Japan has ridiculous debt zombie banks and a insulated technology industry that has been overtaken. They still try and sell things like small touch screen note takers in Japan, something smartphones have made utterly redundant. A terrible country in recent times to emulate. Their car industry however is an exception.
Banks are only legalised and unregulated protection rackets ; they steal our money and there's nothing anyone can do about it ; we have no choice because they themselves made it impossible for us not to have bank accounts
The reason that banks played so fast and loose is because they were encouraged by government regulation to give leverage of 1:97 because of the housing bubble. Banks used to be much more careful with their money before heavy regulation. The answer is not more regulation but less state involvement period. If the banks weren't so sure the state would bail them out they would have been much more cautious. Bankers may be greedy but they don't want to go bust.
@BrownieW1 It doesn't make sense. He has the right premise: 'we leave them in place and give them a lot of money'. True. The answer is to stop giving them money! The answer is not to create a state monopoly on banking. It was crazy regulation by the government that encouraged banks to lend beyond what was even remotely reasonable because 1. there was a housing bubble; 2. it is politically popular to make it easy to own your own home. What makes you think they'd run the damn things any better?
1:31 - Why because history tells us that government run programmes and industry works so much better? It was government policy that set this whole mess up in the first place and one that started in the US where Clinton made banks lend money to people they wouldn't normally lend to. This made bankers less risk adverse and a culture of borrowing took of which was helped along with ever decreasing interest rates (again government interference).
while Self is right about the recession being very lopng and deep, to say '...nationalise the banks; they've shown they're incapable of doing business properly'. So what, Will, we should trust the government with our money more than the bankers? Are you insane? Why is this country obsessed with needing to be looked after, and letting the government have as much power as it possibly wants. The political system is a disgrace, bordering on parody.
@lucas198 The government used that power to give away billions of taxpayers money to private institutions. Nationalising the banks would prevent them from doing it again.
And why are all his friends such intolerable twats? He's not saying anything even remotely intelligent or insightful. Stop being such deluded, brown-nosing, pseudo-intellectual arseholes.
What a bloody moron. We don't need more state intervention, we need less. Banks wouldn't play so "fast and loose" with our money and theirs if they knew it wouldn't be replaced by the government if they lost it all.
Having lived thru 3 world recessions i can speak with some experience. It was Gordon brown as chancellor who relaxed the controls on financial institutions. It was he, PM, who took all the glory when he said we were doing well and denied all responsibility when it all went tits up. Other countries which had harder controls such as Aust. and NZ suffered less. read more !
@StanleyDonwood In our current (failed) system, banks need government and the government needs the banks. Why do you think Wall Street pumps so much money into American presidential campaigns?
Will, like many, start their reasoning from 'the bankers did a load of funny loans and played fast and loose with it...'
Starting the chain of cause and effect from there is convenient for them but extremely short-sighted and dangerous.
Why don't they look into what caused these people to "play fast and loose" in the first place? I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and just presume that they don't like talking about interest rates etc. It's a pretty dry subject afterall.
and Will's solution is more government? jeez, just start handing everyone their daily ration of potatoes and their biannual pair of ill-fitting shoes, and their weekly dose of whatever drug they need, and get it over with...i'm sure that all humanity's problems will then magically disappear....
Recently he was on QT ,he said "Whats the plan B conservatives?" "max out our credit cards or buy loads of houses?" then he ripped it to them once again in his usual total logic sense......i love it,they had nothing to say!!! Ha.
I love it when he speaks on this prog' they shrink back the scumbag self interested MP's,cause everything he says is spot on and always is ! I hate the UK's weakness and spending allday waffling on whats wrong yet doing nothing about it . MP's and the banks have been raping the UK for years.
Its a funny thing here that if alot of people only got paid on results they'd be on the dole like MPs or footballers/managers etc.
We needed to Nationalize the major corrupt banks here in the U.S. as well and reform them from top to bottom..then all these issues could have been addressed from Credit Card Rates, Usury, Foreclosures, Derivatives and where the real bottom actually is which we still don't really know..Obama blew it and we may never get that opportunity again..
all money is created from debt, it all accumulates interest that has to be paid eventually, hence "boom and bust" cycles. The "powers that be" are using our money to prop up a system that enables them to rob us of our money. The top 10% of the population own 90% of the resources, and the majority of them don't pay income tax. Why doesn't this fact bother people?
@21433H People in this country are either too afraid of change or just too ignorant of what really goes on. All 3 of the major parties have proven that they only care about issues that affect that top 10% so it's clear that we don't have democracy.
@tonycatman 'Workers do have power over their future, if they stop working even for one day the economy will collapse. No one else holds that level of power' - One of the many reasons why socialism will never work.
@BolshieBlog I would not need to move to the Congo to create a dictatorship. I plan to take over the U.S. next year.
You speak in the meaningless rhetoric of a would be revolutionary schoolboy, who wants to be angry about something, but hasn't quite worked out what it is yet. In this case, you are telling someone who doesn't care about socialism that they are not a socialist.
You, of course, will be shot when I take over.
Enough, no more. It is not so sweet now as it was before.
@BolshieBlog I don't claim to be a socialist, nor do I claim that Castro is one, nor yet do I claim that socialism is either good or bad.
My understanding of socialism is that the state owns the assets of a country, which I favour ahead of onwership by individual greedy capitalists. However I don't think the 'state' should be democractically elected.
The idea that workers can control an economy implies that 'workers' are a group who share the same opinions, which they don't.
because very few people actually work for something that contributes to the the economy. Most people work in corporations making money for someone else.
@BolshieBlog It seems you are pathologically incapable of expressing an opinion other than one which decries those of others.
I haven't said that imprisoning striking workers *is* socialist in the same way I haven't said that it *isn't*. I'm saying it is neither one nor the other.
Fact is, Cuba is one of the best places on Earth, and this isn't based on what I read, but what I experienced, and it made me question what I learned about 'democratic' economics. Happy, healthy people.
@BolshieBlog I think you might have partially read a headline which was wrong in the first place. Castro doesn't run Cuba anymore - hasn't done for several years.
Castro is known for being a capitalist in the same way as Kate Moss is known for eating.
I don't know why you think that imprisoning striking workers isn't socialist.
Incidentally, you are turning into 'stupid' from QT. Do you have anything constructive to contribute, or an opinion which is more than 'anti-something else'
@BolshieBlog And since you presume to interpret my politics, I can tell you that my views align completely with those of Castro.
Dispense with GDP as a meaningful measure of anything, and measure health, levels of employment and education, and control the distribution of wealth.
It takes a benevolent and strong leader to do this, and will never work for as long as we vote in weak/stuipd leaders who try to appease the greedy who donate to their party and the stupid who shout at them on QT.
@BolshieBlog I agree with you about who to blame, but you reenforce my point that simply blaming someone, and picking on proposed solutions solves nothing.
The capitalist system we live in allows the greedy and corrupt to hold ridiculous amounts of power. Unless this is fixed, we can only treat symptoms with things like quantitative easing, VAT changes, scrappage schemes etc, and the fact is that they work.
The man moaning about the VAT reduction is the worst kind of idiot.
Trying to equate macroeconomics to his own situation without considering that the results of unconsidered actions at the marginal level is what started the recession in the first place.
Basically boognish 100 we need to encourage the people of china to be like thier russian counterparts, as well as encourage North Korea to throw off oligarchies and dictatorships and embrace democratic systems. Except lets not exploit them and leave them to rot like their russian counterparts but help them help us build a better system. It won't be easy and I know its not practical but there is an economic cold war brewing and the solution needs to be of global interest, not just national.
@BelatedCommiseration A few facts and figures ... Financial services generated 193bn in tax revenue in the last 6 years to 2008, manufacturing and other productive industries generated a tax revenue was 378bn. The number of people employed in finance is the same now as it was in 1990, around 1 million. Banks lending to business was down
@boognish100 Thanks for the stats. They are actually interesting and obviously well researched, but sort of miss my point. I am talking gross domestic consumption and the parrallel banking boom in credit that turned the uk into a floating equity strip of fantastic proportions as more people were priced out of the market to finance unsustainable housing booms. Tax is largely irrelevant as it is a national issue rather than international, but it is international pressure causing this.
@boognish100 The facts you quote are numbers and no more.
You could employ half of the people in a country to give a thousand billion dollars a day to the other half, and the other half could give it back the next day. A massive increase in GDP, and full employment. If you tax the circular flow, you also get an increase in tax revenue.
An economy revolves around the things people want to consume - not shuffling debt.
40bn last year, but banks have never lent much to business anyway. In the decade before the crash just 3% was invested in manufacturing. Another 18% went to other productive inductries. Another 75% was invested in home morgages and commercial real estate. The banks work for themseleves, have little social utility and inflate asset prices in an unsustainable way. The banking industry recieves more state aid then any other industry in the uk economy.
@boognish100 You can't deny that it is the rise of derivatives, which are essentially more advanced and disgusting forms of credit that caused a lot of this mess. Agreed, banks never contribute that much and are bailed out more than a 100 time their actual worth. But they control the credit and obey a sectional interest that is global greed. And, unfotuantely, have persuaded a lot of the British public to enter this pact with them and invest their little all in 'trickle down' economics.
We're facing tax rises and decimated public services to pay for the banking crash, and another crash in almost ineviable if we don't properly regulate them and break them up. We've got to the point now where investment from China and elsewhere is slowing because of the unstainable debt driven consumer models western countries have, and more is being invested internally, whilst still keeping wages and their currency artificially low.
To carry on with the model we currently have is an absolute death sentence. We have no diplomatic leverage over countries like China anymore, they'll do what they want, and soon they'll be calling the shots on the rules of world trade, with hugely inflated infleunce over the newly invigourated IMF. We have to disengage from this heavy unsustainable borrowing from countries like China and live within our means, and invest in productive industries.
@boognish100 It is this global order which means that we are stuck. Of course the model is redundant, but if everyone believes in it and has a stake it becomes like the South sea Bubble, everyone believes in it till it pops. China is a rising in industrial power which controls a lot of our sovereign debt (maybe near 40%) which I agree we cannot control. All the worse for us because it makes us more impotant. But the only reason they can do this is because they produce, which is a key word.
There's still plenty we do which is far superier to up and coming countries like China and India, especially in high end manafacturing, creative, high tech and IT industries to name but a few, mainly thanks to a well educated population. So the solution is to live a bit poorer, in a sustainable and productive way, for the sake of the countries future.
@boognish100 Yes indeed we have to invest ourself more in the information industry, which is what Britan has basically been doing since the 80's, but essentially the world market and the capitalist model will continue if people provide our goods for us for a bowl of rice a day, which fuels global consumption and the rise of credit. The only way to beat this is to upgrade conditions, but I agree the situation looks hopeless because any response will lauch World War 3.
The fact is that the balence of payments hasn't been fuelling the uk economy for the last 30 years, but the consumer market has. We are being priced out of the world market in manufacturing and pay. All we can do is set ourselves up as a place for china/india/malaysia to invest their cash and create a service industry around that, which is essentialy what we have done. We can't stop our reliance on debt until these countries improve the rate workers are paid and a decent standard of living.
I love the whole sarcastic, judgemental reduction of people you only know a little about, 'everyone except me is pretentious' vibe. I'm digging it, man.
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self prob shares a smack dealer with venables. Notice how he calls a nazi child killer the personification of evil yet makes excuses for mengles mini-me. Whats up self, is it only a crime when a jew gets killed?
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Do gooders like Will Self and most politicians don't know anything about the real world in fact he semed to trivialise little Jamie's murder. Shilrey Williams wasn't much better.
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Will Self is a fucking cunt living in a dream world typical liberal tosser when he was defending Tom Venables for downloading child porn i felt like being sick peaple like him are going to destroy this country
How could he have been "defending his downloading of child porn" when it hasn't even been confirmed yet - besides incessent speculation in the tabloids (who last week were saying it was drugs...or was it a fight...too many contradictions to work on...)
Nationalise the banks? Maybe it isn't such a good idea to allow the same people who are responsible for the £2 trillion deficit to monopolise the banking system!?
Self makes the same mistake as so many leftists by blaming the financial crisis on free markets..what a joke! It is precisely state interference, central banking and banks/governments colluding to print money out of thin air and debase currency which brought us to this. The state should keep out of the banking business period.
"your a fuckin idiot!!!! " hes an idiot and you write a sentence like this "there two killed a little boy!!!!!!" i not only find that depressing but embarrassing will self is a very well educated individual and if you actualy listen to the brave argument he put forward about what "murder" actually means ie or malice aforethought then you need to re asses what they did although i very much doubt you will because your more interested in a pathetic lynch mob than actual justice
this prick says Venables and Thompson didnt know what they did cause they were just 10 year old boys?????!!!!!!! is he on planet earth?????? what a complete nob,also he says its not in the publics interest to know why ones of them is now in jail??? your a fuckin idiot!!!! there two killed a little boy!!!!!!! in a way so horrible so its VERY MUCH in the publics interest to know because its clear the years trying to sort out the twisted mind of one of them DIDNT work u tool.retard.
@Jackdawhipet I agree..watching Newsnight clip twas interesting 2 note Will Self's comments went down well with audience, whilst Vorderman received barely a smattering of applause. Yet public r overwhelmingly against release of killers, 250,000 petitioned against release. Why? Newsnight audience r loaded with leftists.
@AlanPartridge41M they didn't put batteries up his bum, some sick fuck made that up a few years ago in a chain email and now everyone thinks it's real.
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SELF is a bum. If he knows so much, where was he 2 or 3 years ago???. I'll tell you. He was doing what he does now....looking after his own interests. He's a man that picks the bones of success or failure. Max Clifford should be his Uncle, and Simon Cowell his Father. He is born from the abusers and users of this world.
I don't follow your argument at all. You've a lot of dislike for the man and no real reason for it. Did he borrow your strimmer and return it with a chinked wire?
Ive changed my mind about Will Self after watching tonight on Q time. He made a comment that I understood the reasoning for, and he made it as an individual regardless of what the panel or audience may think. Long live the non political view.
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what does self know about the world and life to come here on a TV show and dictate to others?......his very background makes him a martar of ignorance. I fucking hate tv twats like him who think they can gob off about how a country should be run........he;s a 'bono' allover
@djstoker tell me what you have told me other than he has degrees and 'knows something'. Self uses 'celebrity' for his own gains. Prove me wrong and i'll say sorry.:)
I'm not trying to prove you wrong--this is purely subjective. I just think that as a man with a knowledge of economics, he at least has a decent background to make a valid point . Also, as a satirist it can loosely be termed as his 'job' to "pick at the bones of success or failure", and as such i think, to a certain extent, he serves a social function questioning the validity of matters which influence society. This is just my opinion though, it doesn't have to be about proving things :)
I think nigeSW would rather live in a world where no-one stands up for "the average man in the street." What i think he needs to do is assess who would be able to criticise the current rulers off this country if it wasn't for people like Self who are completely un-bias and without political magnetism. Politicians don't want to rock the boat. We all know what happened to Galloway for doing just that. Self can do it and get away with it as he has no allegiance to a political front.
you might be right that there was not so much growth in income for most people over the last decades but if you compare what products we have now and a few decades ago, you´ll see that our living standard is actually much better now. health care is much better now and the expectation of life has increased also for lower and middle class people. all those things require investment, and that is quite impossible without financial markets.
All those things have actually required heavy government borrowing. Private finance initiatives are a big part of why we have more hospitals now, and cost the UK taxpayer extortionate amounts of money. Labour doubled the funding for the NHS since they got into power but have also borrowed unbelievable amounts of money to make that possible.
It´s true that cheap credit increased and also that financial institutions took too much risk and didn´t even understand all those financial products they used to deal with. if banks had acted responsibly, we wouldn´t be in such a mess.
I´m just trying not to see everything just black or white. i´m not saying that everything went as it should have, neither do i believe banks should be demonized.
Indeed things aren't black and white, but there does need to be clarity when going forward with socially responsible policy to regulate the banks. If the UK government breaks up the banks into smaller institutions and implements the much needed regulation, inevitably much of the industry will move elsewhere to countries with lighter regulation. The financial sector currently makes up around a quarter of the UK economy and contributes about 10% of the total UK tax revenue...
...Essentially they think they have the UK by the balls. They can dictate economic policy, keep regulation light, argue they are too big to fail when they take too much risk, and create volatile and unsustainable bubbles well into the future. This is not how our country should be run. I have absolute clarity the way forward is one without a large financial services industry.
It´s just that you can´t separate finance from the rest of the economy. If you had, as you wish so for the future, a much smaller financial industry, the economy would bleed a lot more than it does no. I don´t know how it is in the UK, but in Germany and also in the US, a lot of small businesses suffer because they don´t get any bank loans anymore, imagine what would happen if there were even less and much smaller banks to give loans to such businesses...
and in fact it is the small businesses which are very important to the economy and they just need loans (it´s not like private consumers who recieve loans for things they can´t afford). and it´s not only money lending, the financial industry is also essential for the allocation of stocks and bonds in the market. without stock and bond markets, companies wouldn´t be able to raise capital for important investments.
Of course you could say that it´s good when the economy grows slower and less investments are made. But the earth population growth, in europe not so much anymore but it´s definetely higher than 100 years ago, and even with the current economy (or the pre crisis economy) there was still a bunch of people without jobs. productivity rises every year and if the economy doesn´t grow quickly enough, there will be less people with a job every year...
I agree that it´s a pitty that the financial sector has not only the UK but many other countries by the balls, but that´s not because they directly threaten the politicians families or whatever, but because it is so extremely important for the overall economy. The only solution would really be to introduce some real international regulation, so that banks just can´t leave the country.
I believe financial institutions have not to be too regulated, but forced to perfect transparency and to be observed by governments but also by shareholders (as they actually are the owners of the institutions and definetely don´t like no losses, but most of the time have no idea what actually goes on in the company).
Then, when greedy bankers start drowning the economy again, government and shareholders can act and interfere.
You´re right. things didn´t go as they were supposed to. thats why we need more regulation. but i´m always a little sceptical when it comes to too strong government involvement. simply because i don´t believe they could do things so much better, the economy now a days is just too complex. if government experts were so much more clever than everybody else, they would have seen what happens in the markets earlier and would have acted in time.
And yes, things are worse now than they were some years ago, but even the current situation is much better than in past centuries, and i can assure you that we would still live in long forgotten conditions without the financial sector. crises are just a part of capitalist economies. there are ups and downs but over the long run the economy grows.
Grows for who? The top 10%? Actual wage inreases for low and middle income earners barely registers in the last few decades. What has increased significantly is the availability of cheap credit, and the level of public and private debt. Yet the UK economy has risen massively.
I'm not arguing for nationalisation, your confusing me with Will Self.
They didn't see what was coming because the regulatory bodies were reduced to insignificance. How could they regulate effectively when the political will tied their hands at every turn. The rating agencies were completely corrupted by the banks, they're was no transparency for the regulators to see what was going on.
I´m just saying that if governmental regulation went so wrong in the past, things will stay as bad or will even get worse when governments take banks over. i´m sorry, i might have really confused you with Self. but nationalisation is the only thing i´m really argueing against.
boognish, you are right that things in the financial sector have to change (more regulation) but nationalisation is not a good solution. And past benefits were definetely not wiped out in the crisis, people just get used to living standards too quickly. i think you underestimate the importance of the financial sector. the economy as we know it would not exist, and far more people would live in poverty.
Thewolf2404, Places like China need to be influenced to increase their consumer spending in order to create markets for Western exports. If anything we in the West have to cut back. The situation we have now is China produces, generates huge surpluses, and with it bank rolls Western borrowing creating a market for their exports. It's not sustainable to have BRIC nations and the Middle East running surpluses while the rest of the world runs a deficit.
This idea that the West can simply run Knowledge economies is a farce. As the aforementioned nations gain greater global influence by default Western countries will be forced to cut back regardless.
I'd rather the banks were broken up in the UK, and properly regulated, and even fairly taxed. Set a global precedent, especially towards the US and Asia. Seek international agreement on financial regulation if possible. Try and set up a serious global coalition against tax havens.
Even at the cost of losing significant amounts of the financial sector to elsewhere. Yes, even with the job creation and tax revenue it brings, it's a price worth paying. Any past benefits they generated for the UK was wiped out in the crisis.
I don't want a these great financial monoliths dictating policy, and crippling the countries finances a second time. They're a leech on the rest of the global economy, and produce little of value themselves. We need to invest in more sustainable and more tangible sectors of the economy if we're to truly thrive in the 21st century.
yeah right, consumption is not important what is production good for if nobody buys the stuff? you can´t just influence the GDP or the POB directly, but you can influence consumption. in the end it all comes down to consumer spending to drive up the economy. and all this talk about nationalizing... politicians are no gods either. who says they´d do it better? (i personally have more trust in a greedy guy who works for his own profit than in an hypocrite politician).
I agree that one should create markets for western exports, but i don´t think the problem is that we consume too much ourselves, but in the products. Western countries could easily expand capacities, but the problem lies in the fact that production is much cheaper in countries like china (=cheap products). I doubt it would be good for western economies to cut wages to china level. So first one has to think about how to make western products a better choice than the cheap ones (e.g quality, ...)
Have to differ with you that we don't consume too much. The consumption boom pre-crisis was in large part a result of the housing bubble and cheap available credit, cheap due to the flood of new money from Chinese savings washing up in the West. This allowed both a sharp rise in public debt and personal debt. It created an economic base for increased consumer spending and was unsustainable. We also run a massive trade deficit.
i liked will self before i just heard him talking about nationalising banks. Unfortunately he falls into the trap like many do of believing that that the free market got us to where we are now when all the evidence shows that there has never been a free market and there won't be as long as you have private central banks lending all the money in circulation and setting interest rates as we do not to mention the fractional reserve system. A recession IS the economy attempting to self correct.
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They really shouldn't have these gimmick guests on a show which deals with serious topics.
I don't see why anyone would listen to economic advice from someone just because he won the world's tallest man category in the Guinness Book of Records.
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self is a twat. please watch the karl pilkington thing even if you dont like karl pilkington. he tries to gain all this knowledge, not out of curiosity but out of arrogance. the proof is that he cannot stand someone less intelligent who is happy that way (ignorance IS bliss). why? because he hates the very thought that he's wasting his life, and he blatantly is. a lifetime isolated from the outside world, studying, is only worth it if you are remembered and he's not exactly going down in history
That entire Karl Pilkington interview was Will joking around, if you thought he was being serious then you've missed the point. Also, Will has spoken about people wanting to be remembered and how silly that is - he doesn't care if people remember him or not.
Self makes a very good point about the government judging the state of the economy based on public spending. That's part of the problem with these financial institutions - there's a lot of money being passed around with people taking a cut at every stage, but no end product. An economy should be based on its efficiency - how much progress and happiness it provides as a ratio of how much effort is put in.
will self is too arrogant and pompous for words, watch when he meets karl pilkington. It is funny, but you can tell he hates people who aren't him, lol, i.e. everyone!
No Will Self is just very eloquent, much unlike Karl Pilkington who is borderline illiterate. Their both successful for being extremes. Dont get me wrong though, Karl Pilkinton is great and I miss the XFM shows with Gervais and Merchant.
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Antoher pseudo intellectual claiming that the nationalisation of the banks is the answer. Nationalise the banks and then we are liable for the trillions upon trllions of toxic debts. And before somebody says it, I don't support the action to give money wily nily to the banks. We should sort them out internally by breaking them up, and splitting them into investment banks and retail banks.
Not if we let them fail. I am a staunch supporter of free market capitalism. I am not going to waver just because of a downward cycle (incidentally, caused by government and not the market). Politicians and bankers like to use the terms systemic risk. They say their bank collapsing would cause huge chaos. It's just an excuse for politicians to bail out the people who donate to their party. Let them fail and let's move on.
"I am not on youtube to make friends, although I will speak happily converse with fellow paleolibertarians. I am here to be rude, vitriolic and sharp, and to reap the rewards of embarrassing the pathetic figures of the Left". I think its best we leave it at that then.
This is a rather prodigious and a fevishant point made by Melanie Phillips: 'If we don't seize control of the economical blackhole created fermitently by big business corporations such as; Tesco, Mcdonald's and Natterjack's, ther
nationalising the banks would be completely fucking mad i hope you all realise that
Flahsk 3 days ago
Will Self warms my heart briefly until I hear the over privileged using unqualified vapid platitudes to justify the unjustifiable, and as always they get away with it. Shame on Britain, its not the bankers to blame, its us. The measure of a politician's success is their ability to say one thing and getting away with doing the opposite. If the entire country voted this would not be the case. The banks will stay private. The NHS will be next. After that... The MOD?
SimonLewington 1 week ago
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SO MANY SCHOOLS SO MANY FOOLS.. PEACE AND LOVE
sol2soul77 2 weeks ago
will self, 2009 "i'm afraid it's going to be a very deep and very sharp recession"
three years later...yup.
bobzilla211 3 weeks ago
Will Self for Prime Minister!
tdkzero 1 month ago 2
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Will Self, what a pompous dickhead.
largesatsuma 2 months ago
Spot on, to be honest.
ubernaffa 3 months ago
Good old Will Self. I've got an idea. Why don't we go back to making things. Which we could sell to people. The Germans seem pretty good at it!
densaner77 4 months ago 2
@densaner77 China have pretty much cornered manufacturing. The gap is too large for us to claw back now. But, 'making things' doesn't necessarily have to mean manufacturing. What we're good at now is design; we can create the things for the industrial nations to manufacture. Companies like ARM are a leading light and demonstrate where our talents lie. It's the likes of Japan who we should be measuring ourselves against.
CheDonJohn 4 months ago
@CheDonJohn. Too much finance and McDonalds makes Britain a dull boy..
densaner77 4 months ago
@CheDonJohn "It's the likes of Japan who we should be measuring ourselves against" - Not really. Japan has ridiculous debt zombie banks and a insulated technology industry that has been overtaken. They still try and sell things like small touch screen note takers in Japan, something smartphones have made utterly redundant. A terrible country in recent times to emulate. Their car industry however is an exception.
CmdrTobs 1 month ago
Banks are only legalised and unregulated protection rackets ; they steal our money and there's nothing anyone can do about it ; we have no choice because they themselves made it impossible for us not to have bank accounts
TheKenfig 4 months ago
Fuckin' love Will Self, spot on here
KNTFM 4 months ago
I would love to nationalize the banks, but our government (in america) is just as bad as the banks.
NatureGnome 4 months ago
Bang on, Will.
Muwt 5 months ago 5
Not a bad point but just decends into complete lunacy
Redpill2011 6 months ago
The reason that banks played so fast and loose is because they were encouraged by government regulation to give leverage of 1:97 because of the housing bubble. Banks used to be much more careful with their money before heavy regulation. The answer is not more regulation but less state involvement period. If the banks weren't so sure the state would bail them out they would have been much more cautious. Bankers may be greedy but they don't want to go bust.
bertiethetoupee4 6 months ago
Another PC BBC luvvie on the airwaves. Time for the BBC to open up to the free market.
transonicbuoy1 6 months ago
NIGGER
MasterBandit101 6 months ago
Nationalise the banks...makes sense.
BrownieW1 6 months ago 3
@BrownieW1 It doesn't make sense. He has the right premise: 'we leave them in place and give them a lot of money'. True. The answer is to stop giving them money! The answer is not to create a state monopoly on banking. It was crazy regulation by the government that encouraged banks to lend beyond what was even remotely reasonable because 1. there was a housing bubble; 2. it is politically popular to make it easy to own your own home. What makes you think they'd run the damn things any better?
bertiethetoupee4 6 months ago
@bertiethetoupee4 What crazy regulation are you referring to?
1978deus 4 months ago
Will Self for prime minister!
itsonelouder1 6 months ago 3
Totally agree. The banks can't be trusted and they hold too much power of politicians., they must be nationalised.
itsonelouder1 6 months ago
Will Self is right on the money here (if you excuse the pun). The problem runs much deeper however. Fractional reserve banking needs to be banished
amtoomer 7 months ago
1:31 - Why because history tells us that government run programmes and industry works so much better? It was government policy that set this whole mess up in the first place and one that started in the US where Clinton made banks lend money to people they wouldn't normally lend to. This made bankers less risk adverse and a culture of borrowing took of which was helped along with ever decreasing interest rates (again government interference).
Freddie1980 7 months ago
the powerhouse of the mind that is will self!
26wordy 7 months ago
Watching this has almost changed my opinion of Will Self.
manychefsbroth 8 months ago
while Self is right about the recession being very lopng and deep, to say '...nationalise the banks; they've shown they're incapable of doing business properly'. So what, Will, we should trust the government with our money more than the bankers? Are you insane? Why is this country obsessed with needing to be looked after, and letting the government have as much power as it possibly wants. The political system is a disgrace, bordering on parody.
lucas198 9 months ago
@lucas198 The government used that power to give away billions of taxpayers money to private institutions. Nationalising the banks would prevent them from doing it again.
bobokk 8 months ago
Why is Will Self such an intolerable twat?
And why are all his friends such intolerable twats? He's not saying anything even remotely intelligent or insightful. Stop being such deluded, brown-nosing, pseudo-intellectual arseholes.
Powell101 9 months ago
What a bloody moron. We don't need more state intervention, we need less. Banks wouldn't play so "fast and loose" with our money and theirs if they knew it wouldn't be replaced by the government if they lost it all.
StanleyDonwood 10 months ago
@StanleyDonwood
Having lived thru 3 world recessions i can speak with some experience. It was Gordon brown as chancellor who relaxed the controls on financial institutions. It was he, PM, who took all the glory when he said we were doing well and denied all responsibility when it all went tits up. Other countries which had harder controls such as Aust. and NZ suffered less. read more !
supersesqui 8 months ago
@StanleyDonwood In our current (failed) system, banks need government and the government needs the banks. Why do you think Wall Street pumps so much money into American presidential campaigns?
bobokk 8 months ago
pete townsend quit the who and became a social commentator?
kermitcintronsucks 10 months ago 3
Will, like many, start their reasoning from 'the bankers did a load of funny loans and played fast and loose with it...'
Starting the chain of cause and effect from there is convenient for them but extremely short-sighted and dangerous.
Why don't they look into what caused these people to "play fast and loose" in the first place? I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and just presume that they don't like talking about interest rates etc. It's a pretty dry subject afterall.
RPFS2008 11 months ago
and Will's solution is more government? jeez, just start handing everyone their daily ration of potatoes and their biannual pair of ill-fitting shoes, and their weekly dose of whatever drug they need, and get it over with...i'm sure that all humanity's problems will then magically disappear....
jcfbell3001 1 year ago
Recently he was on QT ,he said "Whats the plan B conservatives?" "max out our credit cards or buy loads of houses?" then he ripped it to them once again in his usual total logic sense......i love it,they had nothing to say!!! Ha.
hemlock68 1 year ago
THIS YOUTUBE CLIP HITS THE NAIL ON THE HEAD ! TOP DRAWER WILL SELF AND MAN IN AUDIENCE !
SuperFlashman123 1 year ago
I love it when he speaks on this prog' they shrink back the scumbag self interested MP's,cause everything he says is spot on and always is ! I hate the UK's weakness and spending allday waffling on whats wrong yet doing nothing about it . MP's and the banks have been raping the UK for years.
Its a funny thing here that if alot of people only got paid on results they'd be on the dole like MPs or footballers/managers etc.
hemlock68 1 year ago
this man can't see the plank in the state's eye.
bassmonster2 1 year ago
I like Will Self. He's a good guy.
Takes heroin on the PM's plane and doesn't afraid of anything, etc.
thesenamesaretaken 1 year ago
we need to get government out of the conomy full stop. i hate socialism
bobjimjones 1 year ago
We needed to Nationalize the major corrupt banks here in the U.S. as well and reform them from top to bottom..then all these issues could have been addressed from Credit Card Rates, Usury, Foreclosures, Derivatives and where the real bottom actually is which we still don't really know..Obama blew it and we may never get that opportunity again..
TJTele 1 year ago
all money is created from debt, it all accumulates interest that has to be paid eventually, hence "boom and bust" cycles. The "powers that be" are using our money to prop up a system that enables them to rob us of our money. The top 10% of the population own 90% of the resources, and the majority of them don't pay income tax. Why doesn't this fact bother people?
21433H 1 year ago
@21433H People in this country are either too afraid of change or just too ignorant of what really goes on. All 3 of the major parties have proven that they only care about issues that affect that top 10% so it's clear that we don't have democracy.
1978deus 1 year ago
@BolshieBlog You have just wasted numerous words saying Castro is not a socialist. So is he, or isn't he ?
Or is socialism just a meaningless label used by the powerful to suppress the gullible into thinking they have power over their futures ?
My guess is that you have socialist ideals. In which country have you seen socialism working ?
Would someone get your support if they claimed to be socialist ? It is demonstrably possible to renege later on, once in power.
tonycatman 1 year ago
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@tonycatman 'Workers do have power over their future, if they stop working even for one day the economy will collapse. No one else holds that level of power' - One of the many reasons why socialism will never work.
MrsShadowBroker 1 year ago
@BolshieBlog I would not need to move to the Congo to create a dictatorship. I plan to take over the U.S. next year.
You speak in the meaningless rhetoric of a would be revolutionary schoolboy, who wants to be angry about something, but hasn't quite worked out what it is yet. In this case, you are telling someone who doesn't care about socialism that they are not a socialist.
You, of course, will be shot when I take over.
Enough, no more. It is not so sweet now as it was before.
tonycatman 1 year ago
@BolshieBlog I don't claim to be a socialist, nor do I claim that Castro is one, nor yet do I claim that socialism is either good or bad.
My understanding of socialism is that the state owns the assets of a country, which I favour ahead of onwership by individual greedy capitalists. However I don't think the 'state' should be democractically elected.
The idea that workers can control an economy implies that 'workers' are a group who share the same opinions, which they don't.
tonycatman 1 year ago
because very few people actually work for something that contributes to the the economy. Most people work in corporations making money for someone else.
DarkKnightBob1o1 1 year ago
@BolshieBlog It seems you are pathologically incapable of expressing an opinion other than one which decries those of others.
I haven't said that imprisoning striking workers *is* socialist in the same way I haven't said that it *isn't*. I'm saying it is neither one nor the other.
Fact is, Cuba is one of the best places on Earth, and this isn't based on what I read, but what I experienced, and it made me question what I learned about 'democratic' economics. Happy, healthy people.
tonycatman 1 year ago
@BolshieBlog I think you might have partially read a headline which was wrong in the first place. Castro doesn't run Cuba anymore - hasn't done for several years.
Castro is known for being a capitalist in the same way as Kate Moss is known for eating.
I don't know why you think that imprisoning striking workers isn't socialist.
Incidentally, you are turning into 'stupid' from QT. Do you have anything constructive to contribute, or an opinion which is more than 'anti-something else'
tonycatman 1 year ago
@BolshieBlog Yes. You are right. I am a capitalist just like Fidel Castro.
tonycatman 1 year ago
@BolshieBlog And since you presume to interpret my politics, I can tell you that my views align completely with those of Castro.
Dispense with GDP as a meaningful measure of anything, and measure health, levels of employment and education, and control the distribution of wealth.
It takes a benevolent and strong leader to do this, and will never work for as long as we vote in weak/stuipd leaders who try to appease the greedy who donate to their party and the stupid who shout at them on QT.
tonycatman 1 year ago
@BolshieBlog I agree with you about who to blame, but you reenforce my point that simply blaming someone, and picking on proposed solutions solves nothing.
The capitalist system we live in allows the greedy and corrupt to hold ridiculous amounts of power. Unless this is fixed, we can only treat symptoms with things like quantitative easing, VAT changes, scrappage schemes etc, and the fact is that they work.
tonycatman 1 year ago
The man moaning about the VAT reduction is the worst kind of idiot.
Trying to equate macroeconomics to his own situation without considering that the results of unconsidered actions at the marginal level is what started the recession in the first place.
tonycatman 1 year ago
I've only ever seen Will on comedy quizes, enerv seen him so serious o.o
DanRaccoon 1 year ago
Free enterprise freaks do not give us boondoggles. He has no idea what he's talking about.
jamesdaubek 1 year ago
Basically boognish 100 we need to encourage the people of china to be like thier russian counterparts, as well as encourage North Korea to throw off oligarchies and dictatorships and embrace democratic systems. Except lets not exploit them and leave them to rot like their russian counterparts but help them help us build a better system. It won't be easy and I know its not practical but there is an economic cold war brewing and the solution needs to be of global interest, not just national.
BelatedCommiseration 1 year ago
@BelatedCommiseration A few facts and figures ... Financial services generated 193bn in tax revenue in the last 6 years to 2008, manufacturing and other productive industries generated a tax revenue was 378bn. The number of people employed in finance is the same now as it was in 1990, around 1 million. Banks lending to business was down
boognish100 1 year ago 6
@boognish100 Thanks for the stats. They are actually interesting and obviously well researched, but sort of miss my point. I am talking gross domestic consumption and the parrallel banking boom in credit that turned the uk into a floating equity strip of fantastic proportions as more people were priced out of the market to finance unsustainable housing booms. Tax is largely irrelevant as it is a national issue rather than international, but it is international pressure causing this.
BelatedCommiseration 1 year ago
@boognish100 The facts you quote are numbers and no more.
You could employ half of the people in a country to give a thousand billion dollars a day to the other half, and the other half could give it back the next day. A massive increase in GDP, and full employment. If you tax the circular flow, you also get an increase in tax revenue.
An economy revolves around the things people want to consume - not shuffling debt.
tonycatman 1 year ago
40bn last year, but banks have never lent much to business anyway. In the decade before the crash just 3% was invested in manufacturing. Another 18% went to other productive inductries. Another 75% was invested in home morgages and commercial real estate. The banks work for themseleves, have little social utility and inflate asset prices in an unsustainable way. The banking industry recieves more state aid then any other industry in the uk economy.
boognish100 1 year ago 5
@boognish100 You can't deny that it is the rise of derivatives, which are essentially more advanced and disgusting forms of credit that caused a lot of this mess. Agreed, banks never contribute that much and are bailed out more than a 100 time their actual worth. But they control the credit and obey a sectional interest that is global greed. And, unfotuantely, have persuaded a lot of the British public to enter this pact with them and invest their little all in 'trickle down' economics.
BelatedCommiseration 1 year ago
We're facing tax rises and decimated public services to pay for the banking crash, and another crash in almost ineviable if we don't properly regulate them and break them up. We've got to the point now where investment from China and elsewhere is slowing because of the unstainable debt driven consumer models western countries have, and more is being invested internally, whilst still keeping wages and their currency artificially low.
boognish100 1 year ago 5
To carry on with the model we currently have is an absolute death sentence. We have no diplomatic leverage over countries like China anymore, they'll do what they want, and soon they'll be calling the shots on the rules of world trade, with hugely inflated infleunce over the newly invigourated IMF. We have to disengage from this heavy unsustainable borrowing from countries like China and live within our means, and invest in productive industries.
boognish100 1 year ago 2
@boognish100 It is this global order which means that we are stuck. Of course the model is redundant, but if everyone believes in it and has a stake it becomes like the South sea Bubble, everyone believes in it till it pops. China is a rising in industrial power which controls a lot of our sovereign debt (maybe near 40%) which I agree we cannot control. All the worse for us because it makes us more impotant. But the only reason they can do this is because they produce, which is a key word.
BelatedCommiseration 1 year ago
@boognish100 could not agree with you more :)
iloveken222 1 year ago
@boognish100 Forelorn hope.
sugarraygras 3 months ago
There's still plenty we do which is far superier to up and coming countries like China and India, especially in high end manafacturing, creative, high tech and IT industries to name but a few, mainly thanks to a well educated population. So the solution is to live a bit poorer, in a sustainable and productive way, for the sake of the countries future.
boognish100 1 year ago
@boognish100 Yes indeed we have to invest ourself more in the information industry, which is what Britan has basically been doing since the 80's, but essentially the world market and the capitalist model will continue if people provide our goods for us for a bowl of rice a day, which fuels global consumption and the rise of credit. The only way to beat this is to upgrade conditions, but I agree the situation looks hopeless because any response will lauch World War 3.
BelatedCommiseration 1 year ago
The fact is that the balence of payments hasn't been fuelling the uk economy for the last 30 years, but the consumer market has. We are being priced out of the world market in manufacturing and pay. All we can do is set ourselves up as a place for china/india/malaysia to invest their cash and create a service industry around that, which is essentialy what we have done. We can't stop our reliance on debt until these countries improve the rate workers are paid and a decent standard of living.
BelatedCommiseration 1 year ago
goddamn finaglers
hobgoblinlkjfdsa 1 year ago
Blimey that bloke's kid goes through a lot of shoes!!
Bashimillar 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
people commenting on this video are fucking retarded cunts
TheAntinode 1 year ago
i love Will Self and the whole Withnail and I, Oxford and Graduate 'so smart i have to shoot up' vibe
almondmnm 1 year ago
@almondmnm
I love the whole sarcastic, judgemental reduction of people you only know a little about, 'everyone except me is pretentious' vibe. I'm digging it, man.
Kristoffee 1 year ago
I used to be his sons friend in primary school ages ago :D
Simpspark1 1 year ago
the guy in the audience makes a spectacularly good point
mmcfarlane001 1 year ago
LEGEND
purplesnails22 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
self prob shares a smack dealer with venables. Notice how he calls a nazi child killer the personification of evil yet makes excuses for mengles mini-me. Whats up self, is it only a crime when a jew gets killed?
chewymatty1 2 years ago
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Do gooders like Will Self and most politicians don't know anything about the real world in fact he semed to trivialise little Jamie's murder. Shilrey Williams wasn't much better.
cnut12 2 years ago
Oh yeah, them damn do-gooders! Look at them, doing good! Monsters!
Go back to your Daily Mail comment section, you twat.
HeadlightMorningGlow 2 years ago 11
@HeadlightMorningGlow Depends on your opinion of whats 'doing good' Its relative.
ItIsTheInvisibleMan 6 months ago
There's no tax on kids shoes :P
HighKingOfDalliance 2 years ago 3
VAT.
raxachol 1 year ago
@raxachol VAT = Value Added Tax = a tax. Of which there is none on young children's clothes and footwear.
I assume that's what you were trying to call me out on? Your comment wasn't too wordy.
HighKingOfDalliance 1 year ago
look at the bigger picture you cretin.
will self for pm!
bmkellaway 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Will Self is a fucking cunt living in a dream world typical liberal tosser when he was defending Tom Venables for downloading child porn i felt like being sick peaple like him are going to destroy this country
2possi 2 years ago
How could he have been "defending his downloading of child porn" when it hasn't even been confirmed yet - besides incessent speculation in the tabloids (who last week were saying it was drugs...or was it a fight...too many contradictions to work on...)
HeadlightMorningGlow 2 years ago 3
Nationalise the banks? Maybe it isn't such a good idea to allow the same people who are responsible for the £2 trillion deficit to monopolise the banking system!?
Self makes the same mistake as so many leftists by blaming the financial crisis on free markets..what a joke! It is precisely state interference, central banking and banks/governments colluding to print money out of thin air and debase currency which brought us to this. The state should keep out of the banking business period.
anyfekinnamewilldo 2 years ago
@anyfekinnamewilldo .sub prime mortgages in the us were not the start of the credit crunch in america?
ma98h 1 year ago
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"your a fuckin idiot!!!! " hes an idiot and you write a sentence like this "there two killed a little boy!!!!!!" i not only find that depressing but embarrassing will self is a very well educated individual and if you actualy listen to the brave argument he put forward about what "murder" actually means ie or malice aforethought then you need to re asses what they did although i very much doubt you will because your more interested in a pathetic lynch mob than actual justice
jdofb 2 years ago
Comment removed
jdofb 2 years ago
this prick says Venables and Thompson didnt know what they did cause they were just 10 year old boys?????!!!!!!! is he on planet earth?????? what a complete nob,also he says its not in the publics interest to know why ones of them is now in jail??? your a fuckin idiot!!!! there two killed a little boy!!!!!!! in a way so horrible so its VERY MUCH in the publics interest to know because its clear the years trying to sort out the twisted mind of one of them DIDNT work u tool.retard.
jackdawhipet 2 years ago
@Jackdawhipet I agree..watching Newsnight clip twas interesting 2 note Will Self's comments went down well with audience, whilst Vorderman received barely a smattering of applause. Yet public r overwhelmingly against release of killers, 250,000 petitioned against release. Why? Newsnight audience r loaded with leftists.
anyfekinnamewilldo 2 years ago
@AlanPartridge41M they didn't put batteries up his bum, some sick fuck made that up a few years ago in a chain email and now everyone thinks it's real.
woodersonuk 2 years ago
Comment removed
steptoesaunt 2 years ago
is that Nick Griffin at 1:15?
sneaking his way into the audience....
bottleoverhead 2 years ago
Looked more like Peter Griffin
neonatalpenguin 2 years ago
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SELF is a bum. If he knows so much, where was he 2 or 3 years ago???. I'll tell you. He was doing what he does now....looking after his own interests. He's a man that picks the bones of success or failure. Max Clifford should be his Uncle, and Simon Cowell his Father. He is born from the abusers and users of this world.
nigeSW 2 years ago
I don't follow your argument at all. You've a lot of dislike for the man and no real reason for it. Did he borrow your strimmer and return it with a chinked wire?
alxjmartin 2 years ago 3
Ive changed my mind about Will Self after watching tonight on Q time. He made a comment that I understood the reasoning for, and he made it as an individual regardless of what the panel or audience may think. Long live the non political view.
nigeSW 2 years ago 26
This comment has received too many negative votes show
what does self know about the world and life to come here on a TV show and dictate to others?......his very background makes him a martar of ignorance. I fucking hate tv twats like him who think they can gob off about how a country should be run........he;s a 'bono' allover
nigeSW 2 years ago
apart from the fact that he has a degree in politics, philosophy and economics ... so he probably knows at least something
djstoker 2 years ago 2
@djstoker tell me what you have told me other than he has degrees and 'knows something'. Self uses 'celebrity' for his own gains. Prove me wrong and i'll say sorry.:)
nigeSW 2 years ago
I'm not trying to prove you wrong--this is purely subjective. I just think that as a man with a knowledge of economics, he at least has a decent background to make a valid point . Also, as a satirist it can loosely be termed as his 'job' to "pick at the bones of success or failure", and as such i think, to a certain extent, he serves a social function questioning the validity of matters which influence society. This is just my opinion though, it doesn't have to be about proving things :)
djstoker 2 years ago 2
I think nigeSW would rather live in a world where no-one stands up for "the average man in the street." What i think he needs to do is assess who would be able to criticise the current rulers off this country if it wasn't for people like Self who are completely un-bias and without political magnetism. Politicians don't want to rock the boat. We all know what happened to Galloway for doing just that. Self can do it and get away with it as he has no allegiance to a political front.
maxistviews 2 years ago
@djstoker
maybes ayes maybes nos
the prick. Ask yourself how much is he being paid to be panelist on this show what is he really saying that anybody with half a brain doesnt realise.
What an ego on this prat
RYANKOKO 2 years ago
money sucks
JayAre561 2 years ago
The real question: is Lembit Opik the strangest looking man on the planet?
sail1948 2 years ago 5
a really great point made.
palkom13 2 years ago 5
you might be right that there was not so much growth in income for most people over the last decades but if you compare what products we have now and a few decades ago, you´ll see that our living standard is actually much better now. health care is much better now and the expectation of life has increased also for lower and middle class people. all those things require investment, and that is quite impossible without financial markets.
Thewolf2404 2 years ago
All those things have actually required heavy government borrowing. Private finance initiatives are a big part of why we have more hospitals now, and cost the UK taxpayer extortionate amounts of money. Labour doubled the funding for the NHS since they got into power but have also borrowed unbelievable amounts of money to make that possible.
boognish100 2 years ago
It´s true that cheap credit increased and also that financial institutions took too much risk and didn´t even understand all those financial products they used to deal with. if banks had acted responsibly, we wouldn´t be in such a mess.
I´m just trying not to see everything just black or white. i´m not saying that everything went as it should have, neither do i believe banks should be demonized.
Thewolf2404 2 years ago
Indeed things aren't black and white, but there does need to be clarity when going forward with socially responsible policy to regulate the banks. If the UK government breaks up the banks into smaller institutions and implements the much needed regulation, inevitably much of the industry will move elsewhere to countries with lighter regulation. The financial sector currently makes up around a quarter of the UK economy and contributes about 10% of the total UK tax revenue...
boognish100 2 years ago
...Essentially they think they have the UK by the balls. They can dictate economic policy, keep regulation light, argue they are too big to fail when they take too much risk, and create volatile and unsustainable bubbles well into the future. This is not how our country should be run. I have absolute clarity the way forward is one without a large financial services industry.
boognish100 2 years ago
It´s just that you can´t separate finance from the rest of the economy. If you had, as you wish so for the future, a much smaller financial industry, the economy would bleed a lot more than it does no. I don´t know how it is in the UK, but in Germany and also in the US, a lot of small businesses suffer because they don´t get any bank loans anymore, imagine what would happen if there were even less and much smaller banks to give loans to such businesses...
Thewolf2404 2 years ago
and in fact it is the small businesses which are very important to the economy and they just need loans (it´s not like private consumers who recieve loans for things they can´t afford). and it´s not only money lending, the financial industry is also essential for the allocation of stocks and bonds in the market. without stock and bond markets, companies wouldn´t be able to raise capital for important investments.
Thewolf2404 2 years ago
Of course you could say that it´s good when the economy grows slower and less investments are made. But the earth population growth, in europe not so much anymore but it´s definetely higher than 100 years ago, and even with the current economy (or the pre crisis economy) there was still a bunch of people without jobs. productivity rises every year and if the economy doesn´t grow quickly enough, there will be less people with a job every year...
Thewolf2404 2 years ago
I agree that it´s a pitty that the financial sector has not only the UK but many other countries by the balls, but that´s not because they directly threaten the politicians families or whatever, but because it is so extremely important for the overall economy. The only solution would really be to introduce some real international regulation, so that banks just can´t leave the country.
Thewolf2404 2 years ago
I believe financial institutions have not to be too regulated, but forced to perfect transparency and to be observed by governments but also by shareholders (as they actually are the owners of the institutions and definetely don´t like no losses, but most of the time have no idea what actually goes on in the company).
Then, when greedy bankers start drowning the economy again, government and shareholders can act and interfere.
Thewolf2404 2 years ago
You´re right. things didn´t go as they were supposed to. thats why we need more regulation. but i´m always a little sceptical when it comes to too strong government involvement. simply because i don´t believe they could do things so much better, the economy now a days is just too complex. if government experts were so much more clever than everybody else, they would have seen what happens in the markets earlier and would have acted in time.
Thewolf2404 2 years ago
Sorry bud, I think I might have deleted one of your comments when I meant to click reply.
boognish100 2 years ago
Hehe yes, the one about the investments. but don´t worry. just hope you had the chance to read it ;)
Thewolf2404 2 years ago
And yes, things are worse now than they were some years ago, but even the current situation is much better than in past centuries, and i can assure you that we would still live in long forgotten conditions without the financial sector. crises are just a part of capitalist economies. there are ups and downs but over the long run the economy grows.
Thewolf2404 2 years ago
Grows for who? The top 10%? Actual wage inreases for low and middle income earners barely registers in the last few decades. What has increased significantly is the availability of cheap credit, and the level of public and private debt. Yet the UK economy has risen massively.
I'm not arguing for nationalisation, your confusing me with Will Self.
boognish100 2 years ago
They didn't see what was coming because the regulatory bodies were reduced to insignificance. How could they regulate effectively when the political will tied their hands at every turn. The rating agencies were completely corrupted by the banks, they're was no transparency for the regulators to see what was going on.
boognish100 2 years ago
I´m just saying that if governmental regulation went so wrong in the past, things will stay as bad or will even get worse when governments take banks over. i´m sorry, i might have really confused you with Self. but nationalisation is the only thing i´m really argueing against.
Thewolf2404 2 years ago
boognish, you are right that things in the financial sector have to change (more regulation) but nationalisation is not a good solution. And past benefits were definetely not wiped out in the crisis, people just get used to living standards too quickly. i think you underestimate the importance of the financial sector. the economy as we know it would not exist, and far more people would live in poverty.
Thewolf2404 2 years ago
Thewolf2404, Places like China need to be influenced to increase their consumer spending in order to create markets for Western exports. If anything we in the West have to cut back. The situation we have now is China produces, generates huge surpluses, and with it bank rolls Western borrowing creating a market for their exports. It's not sustainable to have BRIC nations and the Middle East running surpluses while the rest of the world runs a deficit.
boognish100 2 years ago
This idea that the West can simply run Knowledge economies is a farce. As the aforementioned nations gain greater global influence by default Western countries will be forced to cut back regardless.
boognish100 2 years ago
I'd rather the banks were broken up in the UK, and properly regulated, and even fairly taxed. Set a global precedent, especially towards the US and Asia. Seek international agreement on financial regulation if possible. Try and set up a serious global coalition against tax havens.
boognish100 2 years ago
Even at the cost of losing significant amounts of the financial sector to elsewhere. Yes, even with the job creation and tax revenue it brings, it's a price worth paying. Any past benefits they generated for the UK was wiped out in the crisis.
boognish100 2 years ago
I don't want a these great financial monoliths dictating policy, and crippling the countries finances a second time. They're a leech on the rest of the global economy, and produce little of value themselves. We need to invest in more sustainable and more tangible sectors of the economy if we're to truly thrive in the 21st century.
boognish100 2 years ago
yeah right, consumption is not important what is production good for if nobody buys the stuff? you can´t just influence the GDP or the POB directly, but you can influence consumption. in the end it all comes down to consumer spending to drive up the economy. and all this talk about nationalizing... politicians are no gods either. who says they´d do it better? (i personally have more trust in a greedy guy who works for his own profit than in an hypocrite politician).
Thewolf2404 2 years ago
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grimgorilla 2 years ago
I agree that one should create markets for western exports, but i don´t think the problem is that we consume too much ourselves, but in the products. Western countries could easily expand capacities, but the problem lies in the fact that production is much cheaper in countries like china (=cheap products). I doubt it would be good for western economies to cut wages to china level. So first one has to think about how to make western products a better choice than the cheap ones (e.g quality, ...)
Thewolf2404 2 years ago
Have to differ with you that we don't consume too much. The consumption boom pre-crisis was in large part a result of the housing bubble and cheap available credit, cheap due to the flood of new money from Chinese savings washing up in the West. This allowed both a sharp rise in public debt and personal debt. It created an economic base for increased consumer spending and was unsustainable. We also run a massive trade deficit.
boognish100 2 years ago
Places like Germany that actually invest in their productive base, and have low personal debt, a massive government surplus and a trade surplus.
boognish100 2 years ago
i liked will self before i just heard him talking about nationalising banks. Unfortunately he falls into the trap like many do of believing that that the free market got us to where we are now when all the evidence shows that there has never been a free market and there won't be as long as you have private central banks lending all the money in circulation and setting interest rates as we do not to mention the fractional reserve system. A recession IS the economy attempting to self correct.
SadClownMovies 2 years ago
Brown, Cameron or Self........I'd vote Self everytime.
movement26 2 years ago 3
at least Self tells it like it i like this week on question time. Unlike the politicians who go around the question and dont answer it.
Konohagakure17 2 years ago
Couldn't agree more he was direct and no dancing around like the others were.
james9689 2 years ago
I love how everyone typed in will self after the satisfied fool film.
HellsHighwayTrooper 2 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
They really shouldn't have these gimmick guests on a show which deals with serious topics.
I don't see why anyone would listen to economic advice from someone just because he won the world's tallest man category in the Guinness Book of Records.
fomastephanovitch 2 years ago
question time is infotainment at best
gossieuk 2 years ago
lol he's a journalist, a commentator and author
jhvscs 2 years ago
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self is a twat. please watch the karl pilkington thing even if you dont like karl pilkington. he tries to gain all this knowledge, not out of curiosity but out of arrogance. the proof is that he cannot stand someone less intelligent who is happy that way (ignorance IS bliss). why? because he hates the very thought that he's wasting his life, and he blatantly is. a lifetime isolated from the outside world, studying, is only worth it if you are remembered and he's not exactly going down in history
samisabig1 2 years ago
That entire Karl Pilkington interview was Will joking around, if you thought he was being serious then you've missed the point. Also, Will has spoken about people wanting to be remembered and how silly that is - he doesn't care if people remember him or not.
1233452432 2 years ago 6
Self makes a very good point about the government judging the state of the economy based on public spending. That's part of the problem with these financial institutions - there's a lot of money being passed around with people taking a cut at every stage, but no end product. An economy should be based on its efficiency - how much progress and happiness it provides as a ratio of how much effort is put in.
wriches 2 years ago
Is that Baldrick from Black Adder?
boydegg 2 years ago
will self is too arrogant and pompous for words, watch when he meets karl pilkington. It is funny, but you can tell he hates people who aren't him, lol, i.e. everyone!
SamCocknose 2 years ago
No Will Self is just very eloquent, much unlike Karl Pilkington who is borderline illiterate. Their both successful for being extremes. Dont get me wrong though, Karl Pilkinton is great and I miss the XFM shows with Gervais and Merchant.
deadleg22 2 years ago 2
fuck me a scouser doin maths
offitcock 2 years ago
Will Self - a wise man, speaking sense.
Paracetamoljunkie 2 years ago 2
Maybe people could just be less greedy?
AirportMonkey 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Antoher pseudo intellectual claiming that the nationalisation of the banks is the answer. Nationalise the banks and then we are liable for the trillions upon trllions of toxic debts. And before somebody says it, I don't support the action to give money wily nily to the banks. We should sort them out internally by breaking them up, and splitting them into investment banks and retail banks.
Mickmars90 2 years ago
takes one to know one
chrskovgaard 2 years ago 6
We still are liable for the 'trillions upon trillions of toxic debts' under privatized banks though, so i dont really get your argument.
Paracetamoljunkie 2 years ago 3
Not if we let them fail. I am a staunch supporter of free market capitalism. I am not going to waver just because of a downward cycle (incidentally, caused by government and not the market). Politicians and bankers like to use the terms systemic risk. They say their bank collapsing would cause huge chaos. It's just an excuse for politicians to bail out the people who donate to their party. Let them fail and let's move on.
Mickmars90 2 years ago
"I am not on youtube to make friends, although I will speak happily converse with fellow paleolibertarians. I am here to be rude, vitriolic and sharp, and to reap the rewards of embarrassing the pathetic figures of the Left". I think its best we leave it at that then.
Paracetamoljunkie 2 years ago 3
Oh god, fancy having the banks run by committee..?
fomastephanovitch 2 years ago
This is a rather prodigious and a fevishant point made by Melanie Phillips: 'If we don't seize control of the economical blackhole created fermitently by big business corporations such as; Tesco, Mcdonald's and Natterjack's, ther