@1R0QU012 in other words "i want to pick and choose whats my canon from what i like"
Because clearly the stable and consistent "ap 3 beats armor 4" is NOTHING so reliable as the novels incredible continuity, such as "A power sword has a near infinite fusion powersource/after cutting through the tanks hull the swords powerpack was drained and the sword was useless"
@1R0QU012 so which is it, does a power sword have unlimited energy or is it drained after cutting through one tank? I got both of those from Black Library books, they cant both be canon
And finally, to put the last nail in the "Halo vs Warhammer" coffin, a .50 cal anti material rifle is used to one shot Spartans in Halo straight through their armor and shielding, while a .75 cal bolter round (which btw uses both a shell and rockets to propel it and does NOT stop firing shortly after leaving the barrel the Ultramarines move be damned) will not even pierce a Karsakins 4+ armor save, to say nothing of Terminators 2+/5+
Woah! Lucky for that terminator he scored 4+ with 2 powerfist attacks and then got at least 1 penetrating hit with a 6 as damage result! (he would die otherwise)
@KnarkPekka not true, he autohits on death or glory and he only needed to immobilize or stun it. Luckily for him he rolled a 5 and wrecked it instead (there was no explosion)
I gotcha man. But as far as Fall as Damnos was concerned, that human chick was the only thing that allowed those "scout" marines to find and destroy the Necron artillary. Which opened the campaing up to the rest of the Ultramarines in orbit. The moral of that entire story is Sicarus' pride caused them to get their asses handed to them.
to quote a guy on /tg/ earlier today "Sicarius is a glory hounding douchebag, more to the point, have you seen that guy? If they put any more bling on him, he's shine brighter than 100 million 'gangstas'" lol
They also has to rely on human beings, The necrons tore the hell out of the dreadnoughts, Cato Sicarus got his ass handed to him, and they loss half thier fighting strength.
@1R0QU012 true, but the human support was minimal for the most part.
My only point being that their power level varied from book to book. I'm going to drop here though because my interest in arguments over who's the stronger franchise is minimal
As long as Halo makes good games, and as long as 40k gives me a setting to play a cool TT wargame in, I don't really care who is stronger
The problem here is that Halo has its base in reality.
You people are aware, that in 40k, a musket is more powerful than a modern day assault rifle? They have the exact same stats except the musket is slightly less accurate, and slightly more deadly.
@nocandy4u2 it says nothing about a musket being better than rifles of today. Their is a reason why we don't use them today and only "backwards worlds" in 40k do. Sure a musket round will do more trauma to a target because the round is larger and slower but that doesn't mean they can defeat a Spartans shields, a musket is a musket.
@mushroomhead86 comparing to halo was not my point. My point is apparently in the universe of 40k, muskets are more powerful than weapons that are the equivalent to 20th century assault rifles.
@nocandy4u2 a musket now days if fired at a human being will obliterate bones but are short range weapons, A 30-06 will do less damage but can reach out and touch someone at 1km. (cont)
@mushroomhead86 well my underlining point is that I honestly don't think this debate will ever end, the fanboyish is too strong on both sides and I don't (cont. God this new limit is annoying)
@nocandy4u2 It's a time killer... 1R0QU012, and I only post information from the sources(kinda how a debate is suppost to go), against poeple who say things like "HERATIC" and other nonsense.
@nocandy4u2 Not from what I've read, Ultramarines series, Space wolf series, Henry Zous novels, the only thing that fluctuates is the competence of there enemies... ie untrained humans, Tau who apparently have no markmanship skills, choas follwers armed with sharpened sticks iron swords and shotguns. another constant thing is normal humans being able to fight toe to toe with SMs and in most cases almost beating them...
@mushroomhead86 well in Fall of Damnos, a squad of ten tactical marines waded through a horde of necrons and didnt get anything but a scratch on their paint job. 100 marines beat back an entire army.
@mushroomhead86 they did have human support, but with two exceptions the humans existed to comment on how awesome the space marines were and be killed.
The one piece of artillery in the story fired on a monolith, had no effect, and got blown up.
after the book ends they lose -in the codex-, since the Necrons send another army since they can rebuild their lost troops.
but there's another book out their where you could strangle a space marine with a cordless phone. it really depends on the writer
I stick with the master chief : / the space marine can barely move around, and the chief has shields. Plus all he really need to do is run around that bulk of steel and do a head shoot.
@nocandy4u2 Oh i already knew that, i just felt like stating that. Course also i think the space marines are in a society more advanced the the master chiefs. The society might be more primitive, but more advanced.
@cleny217@cleny217 I looked it up, powered armor makes them faster and more maneuverable while Terminator armor makes them slightly slower.
Artificer Armor, which is usually reserved for Captains or the Chapter Master, has all the benefits of the power armor with all the protection of terminator armor (but it lacks the shield (5+ invulnerable save on the tabletop) of terminator armor).
@cleny217 2+ armor 5+ invul and he can run faster than any human. Terminator armor is heavy, but Space Marines are strong. A headshot would do little more than piss him off.
@LeeyroyJenkins The MAC can pick off the Imperial ships as far away as the moon (impact at 3 seconds) every 5 seconds and firing as many as 30 missles at a time from one pod, Halo frigates and destroyers have 60 missle pods each(The Ultra Marines Omnibus shows that the Imperium does not engage until they are in at least 10,000 km of distance from the enemy and that just 6 missles are almost impossible to destroy befor impacting on the ship)
@mushroomhead86 but imperial ships have void shields, and they do have long range weaponry such as rail cannons and las lances. only the missiles are short range ordnance. Plus the Imperium has boarding torpedoes.
@baval5 yeah they do have void sheilds...whicha are overloaded by terra watt weaponry(MAC gun liberates 76 terratons of kinetc force which is millions of times stronger)
@mushroomhead86 oh stop with the overloaded by terrawatt weaponry bs. First of all, you say "game mechanics are not canon!" but then can quote our first edition rulebook from a company that has no idea what its talking about for info? Second of all, we DO know about how powerful a void shield is at armor 12, which is weak enough to be broken by a single missile. However, to make up for this they are protected by LAYERS of void shields so that it takes many hits to reach hull.
@baval5 furthermore in an average wargame/roleplaying game a turn lasts 6 seconds, and void shields can be regenerated in a turn, meaning that you would need to fire shots fast enough to penetrate all the shields within 6 seconds or theyll just begin to regenerate on you while firing, and you must do that to the dozens if not hundreds of ships in orbit around the planet before they can open up with long range ordnance like the Nova Cannon.
@baval5 which is why Titan hunting companys are several Baneblades escorting a single Shadowsword, because a single high powered shot will do nothing to a void shield protected unit, it takes massive firepower over time followed by a killing blow to take one down.
Chief would get mind fucked just looking at 40k's grimdarkiness, then the grimdarkiness would form one huge ass Emperor created Astartes cock and rape his shit.
Be aware that Imperial weaponry is fired broadside style, fill an area with as much fire power as possible and pray you hit something, Rogue Trader Core Rulebook pg 218-219. With heavy ordinances like Nova Canons fire by Iron sights and take 30 minutes to reload, Warriors of Ultramar.
UNSC shipbased weapon systems are fired by ship board AIs and depending on the size of the ship can fire a MAC round every 5- 15 seconds.
This is the problem with Imperial Tactics in the UNSC vs Imperium scenario. The UNSC has the activation Index for the Halo Array and access to Onyx. 10,000 year of "Grinding attrition" isn't easily undone. After an array fire the Imperium won't have an infinite supply of meat for the grinder, and UNSC ONI isn't shy about using nukes to deal with massed infantry. The Imperium has been in technological decline since the Horus Heresy, the OLDEST ships being the most powerful.
@1R0QU012 The Imperium uses Exterminatus on entire PLANETS of its own people simply to make sure that its defeated an enemy.... There really ISN'T another culture more willing to turn a blind eye to the suffering of the individual for the good of the many. Plus you gotta remember its a simple case of numbers with Imperial guard. Even if you use nukes the Imperium still has more....
to expand on my point below, an imperial starship has its voids overloaded by several shots from enemy LASER batteries[ Horus Heresy: Fallen Angels], as stated previously, MAC rounds have 70 million times the yield of any imperial LASER. I highly doubt Imperial starships are exchanging broadsides in any single engagement for 70 million shots just to overload the other vessels voidshielding.
@1R0QU012 It would not really matter, even if you disregard the fact that the imperium have different ship classes as well as the fact that they might have changed their arnament since the Horus heresy. The Imperium could simply drown the spartans in a seemingly endless sea of soldiers and ships.
You have a source for all that? I'm certainly not about to take your word for it.
Additionally, even IF they can displace "most" of the impact force, a single MAC round has 70 million times the yield of shipbased LASER batteries in 40k.
@1R0QU012 Where is your source for a MAC round being 70M times the yield of a laser battery? Further more imperium ships don't use laser batteries, this isn't Star Trek, They use LANCES but even that is a prow-only weapon. The main weapons are either torpedo's or cannons firing mega-ton warheads.
Actually, Starship void shields are overloaded after taking multiple hits from Terawatt beam weapons, a weapon 70 million times that strength[MAC] would rip through even the strongest voids and completely obliterate the ship.
Master Chief canonically is an average spartan. This is stated in the opening vutscene to Halo 3, so he is the best control specimen for this argument, as he isn't the strengest the fastest or the smartest.
The first and fourth layers are Power fields similar to those used in power weapons, and work by destabilising the molecular structure of enemy projectiles.
The second layer is a Conversion field that tries to absorb incoming energy attacks and thus use their energy to power the other layers.
The third one is the Displacement field, which transports almost all enemy attacks that pierced the first and second layers into the Warp.
I find it hilarious that someone was trying to prove Warhammer 40k to physics, the series was not made by scientists; half of the things you find in the novels will not work the same in actuality. Sci Fi writers have no sense of scale and Art Major physics are at the powers at work.
On the actual point, I'd have to vote for the marine more due to the ineffectiveness of conventional arms to the marine's power amour. Though MC could probably pull something out of his hat to win it, somehow.
not to but in but arn't you people forgetting the pskyers, no shield nor armour can stop an attack directed straight to your into mind and an AI if i'm correct is just like the human mind (or directlly linked) so same vunrabilitys same affects.
take adolf hitler for example, superior weapons, tactics and more yet a fu*k up lead to a war on two fronts which leaded to his defeat and note to all those who don't understand histroy will repeat it. eg the UNSC will fall eventually (not saying how cause IDK) and 17 thousand years later the Emperor will rise and face horous and be mortally wounded but victorius and be placed on the golden throne for ten thousand years to either die (hope not) or walk among us one again and finish of chaos.
can i say something and (you) try to understand , since both time lines are about 37 thousand years apart (not light years either) how do you think that you can magically travel through time to a battle front no side can win nor lose and even if you were able to that would leave you vunrable to covenet and flood attacks so you would be fighting a war in two time lines at the same time and histroy would be dommed to repeat it's self.
You can't prove the methodology behind Voidshields muchless the "resistance" they are able to enact. a sincle MAC round has 70 million times the yield of a LAS battery on an Imperial Starship[ Rogue Trader Core rule Book pg 218], Terawatt beam weapons over loading Voidshielding in seconds. Additionally you'd need to provide a quote stating that the space marine's can dodge super sonic rounds.
I find it amusing people try to compare 40k and Halo when the two universes on in compatible on a fundamental level - they don't even obey the same laws of physics.
@nocandy4u2 i agree but i think its far more amusing to join the argument and watch thier heads explode at the number of time they need to comment to prove a point that realy can't be proven
A spartian is about the level of an imperial storm trooper, i like them both but if you understand the matchup and the cannon behind it, its not much of a fight, the space marine wins it.
so how about we call a temperory truce and lets some other people comment on what they think about the video and not worrie about us lots strangling the Fuck out if each other OK or can't you lot handle that?
but since there is not exact repellica of either power armour this argument cannot be prooved we ALL could argue for a hundred years and still get no where or untill the armour, arms and the rest is made to prove who is better yet knowing both sides neither can afford a large scale war you still have some issues with getting through the warp and i can't be stuffed racing to the eye of terra to attack you let allone the forces of Chaos, i'm still cleaning up the tyrrinads on Maccrage.
@ImperialElite666 This arguement can be settleled using the canon from both sides, which is all 1ROQU012 and I use. Fanboys ruin the arguement and base their claims of off thier raging love for wh40k. The UNSC doesn't use the warp they have slipspace (demon free more reliable means of FTL)
@mushroomhead86 I don't think it makes a difference. I think the two settings are totally incompatible.
The two universes operate on fundamentally different laws of physics, their plasma might not even be the same.
Also 40k has a contradictory canon because you, as the player, are supposed to interpret what's true for yourself and what's just propaganda. How do you compare a canon like that with another and think it'll end in something other than perpetual fanwank.
@nocandy4u2 Of course you don't think so your arguement is totally based on your own opinion. The inforfation is there and has been posted. Wh40K is simply outclassed by Halo, the time differences do not matter.
@mushroomhead86 I'm not saying either setting is stronger than the other.
I'm saying that Halo has a stable, consistent canon while 40k is made to be a player's playground to create their own stories on the tabletop, the player can literally pick or choose what is true and what isn't (thus the contradiction).
I don't understand how one could think that you could rationally and accurately compare the strengths of two settings like that.
@nocandy4u2 Because the information is in the Codexs and novels which are updated all the time. Sure you can choose to play an older game and like it more but the newer information is what it is.
Codices are offically faction propaganda outside of the base facts though and I could easily dismiss any novel that disagrees with me as such. And the way the canon is structured, I'd be just as correct as the offending novel is.
And it's for this reason that anytime you compare 40k to anything, all you'll get 20+ pages of flame war with no decisive winner.
@nocandy4u2 Lol who said that? you? No the codexs are the facts if they are too vauge then you need to find exapmles in the other canon information, everything is there, it's just wh40k fans choose to believe everything in wh40k is ubber awesomeness
@mushroomhead86 Actually he's right, 40k is a pick and choose what's true kind of universe. It's what gives you so much freedom to create your own chapters/xeno factions.
You're also right in "believe everything in wh40k is ubber awesomeness" having seen people try to argue that 40k could beat The Culture (lol).
But that point would be far more valid, and far less ironic and funny, if it came from someone other than one who has been arguing for the uber awesomeness of halo for months on end.
@waaaaaaghhammer It would be funny and ironic IF I were saying that a Spartan could beat everything, but I'm not. I'm saying a Spartan could defeat a space marine based on what I know about both sides
you seem to have misplaced you infomation bolters, heavy bolters, assultcannons were not designed to combat unarmoured bastards thats for the imperialguards lasguns the Astartes weapons can punch through ALL know material they were made to kill heavly armoured foes you shielding may give you a chance in ranged warfair but in CQB the Astartes will ALLWAYS win and you think we will just stand there and let you shoot at us thats a mistake that will get you killed
Additionally a bolt cannot be so massive that a human being cannot fire one one armes as is the case with Gregor Eisenhorn and Ciaphas Cain among others who manage bolt pistols quite easily despite their supposed high mass.
Your guess is horrible, the thought that a low velocity impact could shatter a "super dense" object is retarded. Spartans are capable of dodging super sonic bullets, dodging a bolt round isn't going to be that much of a feat by your reconning. And yes they are in essense the same thing. Singulatiries having enough mass to break space-time attests to this fact.
@1R0QU012 "Spartan dodgin supersonic bullets" Quote and link please.
"Space-time and armor" I think you should go talk to your physics teacher. Bring aspirin. He´s going to need it.
"Humans and boltguns" Yeees, they are using boltguns designed for normal humans. While powerfull, they do not come near to the punch of an Astartes bolter which will rip the arm of an unmodified human. Maybe if they are wearing power armor they might use an Astartes bolter. Maybe.
@BigSwede7403 Fall of Reach by Eric Nylund MJOLNIR section. The Master Chief dodges gun fire at point blank range from the MA5B assault rifle. Also Spartans dodged rounds from automated turrets (7.62)when they recieved MK IV armor.
@1R0QU012 As for shattering bolts, you do realise that a bolt is made up of mroe than just the core and the tip, right? There is the casing, the mass reactor, the detonator, the explosive charge. All of which are not super dense and can shatter if it strikes something hard enough. Also, density does not equal tensile strength. If so we would be using gold tools to form steel, not the other way around.
If the Projectile is no longer experiencing positive acceleration then It will not continue through a material. Big Rounds have plenty of Inertial mass hence they keep moving when in motion[possibly through a material]. Small projectiles especially those of the Impact explosive variety not so much inertial mass so it takes less to stop them.
@1R0QU012 Point moot, Bolters are Gyrojet weapons, the projectile accellerate all the way to the target unless it is at extreme ranges. 0.75 caliber is what i would concider a big round. Bolts are designed to detonate after penetration, not at impact. Bolts have a superdense core and a realy hard penetrator tip, which means they have mass a-plenty.
Bolt rounds expend their fuel a second after leaving the Barrel of the Bolter,[ultramarine moive]. High mass requires more work to propel the projectile leaving less room for acceleration, back to inertai, an object at rest tends to want to stay at rest especially massive objects
@1R0QU012 Depends on the size of the mass. While a core of steel would take up a lot of room, a depleted uranium (for example) would not take up as much for the same mass. As for inertia, yes, this is true. Your point? Ceramite beign penetrated by .45 projectile. I presume you are refering to the game rules here, Simple, when a pistol penetrates power armor it´s because they manage to hit the weak spot. Joints, eye pieces. Things like that.
@1R0QU012 Lol I face palmed when I read " how thick was the iron?" and then not 2 seconds later " Defilers have really thick armor." this kid is a retarded troll
When a projectile impacts a surface it transfer it's kinetic energy to the surface of the energy is sufficient It will keep going by moving the impacted surface out of the way, Bolts do not have enough energy to "keep going" through Iron plates. Much less Titanium which requires 5 times the force needed to penetrate Iron. Try Again
@1R0QU012 So you are saying that a 1mm thick iron plate can stop a bolt. A 1mm thick iron plate can´t even stop a normal pistol round today. Now why on earth would the elite warriors of a interstellar empire use weapons that can be outperformed by a 9mm pistol from some 40.000 years in the past? You always need thickness to deform and absorb the energy of the moving projectile.
you may want to ask games workshop that question. Additionally ask them why super awesome ceramite plate is out performed by kevlar vests as Ceramite is penetrated by .45 cal Brass projectiles
@1R0QU012 Wait, are you trying to compare how mass effects on space-time with how projectiles deform physical armor? As for slow and heavy... There is slow and then there is slow. A bolt is not as fast as a regular bullet, but it is in no way slow as in "I see it and can dodge it". As it is also much larger and heavier it still packs one hell of a kinetic impact. As to what happens with failed penetrations. My guess, they deform and shatter or gets lodged in the armor.
NOT to premote Chaos or any thing to piss of the inqusition, but you spartan followers could be fighting a DEAMON PRINCE!!! in which by the time the spartan hits planet fall he could be tainted and the rest of the UNSC since you have had no training to halt the taint of chaos i think its safe to say YOU ARE ALL FU*KED so next time you want to comment take a good look at your comrads think are they tainted or ARE YOU!!!!!!!!!
And You are Forgetting The GREYKNIGHTS none have scumbed to the taint of Chaos even the Choas Gods fear thier might, An Empire of a Million worlds Conqourers of every race of Xenos ever known from The Orkz, Eldar, Tau, Tyrrinids, Dark Eldar and far more, your shields may stop covernet weapons and your own but the Astartes don't Use 40mm Grenade lunchers We Use Bolters, Plasma guns, Assult cannons, Lascannons and more.
your fleet Will Never survive an Extermatus nothing has NOTHING WILL
@ImperialElite666 Asartes use a 19mm round, Plasma weapons that are rare and slow to shoot (halo has plasma and they are automatic) Assault canons... lol 30 mm auto turrets, 50 mm canons ect. Lascanons great Spartan lasers can be used by a single man.
The Imperial fleet would be taking fire from as far away as Mars with th MAC gun. lol sorry fanboy wh40k is outclassed
@BigSwede7403 One asartes and a dreadnaught... that makes every SM thousands of years old, right.
Yeah game mechanics are not canon, nice try.
Spartan lasers are not rare and they are no longer prototype weapons as of halo 3, they can be fielded by an unaugemented human being with ease, a single SM can use a lascanon yes, but they are also slower and easier targets.
Lance batteries have a range of tens of thousands of kilometers lol which is point blank to the UNSC navy.
@mushroomhead86 "Shields and terratons of energy" If they hit, yes. And unfortunatly, Void Shields does not work by resisting the impact, they displace the impact altogether. No impact, no energy released.
"Dodging SS projectiles" Fair enough, but that means Marines do that too as it´s been described in novels. But mostly against heavier stuff as Marines are not bothered by small stuff like normal rifle rounds unless it comes at them in the hundreds.
@mushroomhead86 "Going to get hit" If they are in (by astronomical scale) pretty much point blank. 120K kilometer per second (For the Super MAC on orbital platforms) is pretty fast. But that still means it would take a shot 3 seconds from earth to the moon. Ship-board are pretty much standing still at 3 kilometer per second.
Would an ODP kill an Imperial ship with a direct hit? Deffinitly. If they hit, and the shields are down.
@mushroomhead86 "One Astartes" Actualy, quite a few Dreads are ancient. And i didn´t say every Marine is 1000+ years. It was you that claimed no Marines at all were that age.
"Game mechanis are not canon" So that means all the Halo games are not canon either. Interesting concept there.
"Spartan lasers" Actualy, Las canons can be used by a single unmodded human too. It´s just not a common occurence. Also, who said Marines are slower and easier targets?
@BigSwede7403 Thats great, too bad the fight isn't Spartan vs Dreadnaught.
Game mechanics are not canon,the story is...there is a difference.
great so people like Gunnery Sgt. Harker can do this. Not your run of the mill soldier. In the Halo universe ANY soldier can field a Spartan laser, thats my point.
@mushroomhead86 "That´s great" No, it´s Spartan 117 Vs a normal Marine. Exceptional as he might be by Halo standards, if we put 117 up against someone like Ragnar Blackmane, Lord Mephiston or the like he would not stand a chance. Against an average Marine i´d say 8-9 losses for MC for every win. Maybe a bit better if he gets to cherrypick his equipment and the Marine doesn´t.
@mushroomhead86 Gunny Harker and pretty much anyone with sufficient strength. The reason you see heavy weapons teams in WH40K is because it´s more effective for two persons to carry a heavy weapon and all the ammo it needs, rather than just one person. Pretty much for the same reason you see medium machineguns and rocket launchers being crewed by 2.
The S-Laser doesn´t need the 2nd crew because it can´t normaly be recharged in the field at all.
@BigSwede7403 Gunny Harker and friends are not the usual which was my point, and Spartan lasers can be "reloaded" in the field, just not in gameplay for balancing. Read the Halo encyclopedia and Visual guide the S-Laser is a much better weapon and can be feilded by a joe shmo Marine (no gunny Harker types needed)
@mushroomhead86 From Halo Wiki. "It is powered by a BA-53635/PLMD non-replaceable battery, which is recharged with a PP-16979/AM-Sh charger. UNSC logistics, however, are not sufficient for the charger to accompany many W/AV M6 G/GNR units in the field."
So yes it can, but generaly is not due to logistics. While a Las cannon cell can be recharged from a wall socket, left out in the sun or put in an open fire.
@mushroomhead86 "MAC to Mars" Speed of 1 Super MAC projectile. 43.200.000 KpH. Closest distance Earth to Mars ever possible. 54.600.000 kilometers. That´s over an hour flighttime for the projectile. Even the tiniest course adjustment would mean the shot misses by hundreds of kilometers.
Also, please link the range estimates for Lance ranges. Would be interesting to see how they explain a laser weapon having limited range in open space.
@mushroomhead86 i am no "fan boy" HERATIC you have no proof on the calibur on Astartes weapons iv'e been working for warhammer 40k for twenty years, W40K plasma weapons are not rare, lascannons can be weilded with one hand and can easly out gun your primitive laser weapons, the imperial fleet can engage anything within 3 lightyears of space and even further if the Extermatus cannons were fired through a warp gate i outnumber you,out gun you +with 10,000 years of exp out smart you
@ImperialElite666 bolters are .75 cal... please read about calibers. Las canons cannot be weilded with one hand, like autocanons they are too large to be fired from the shoulder, so are carried at the hip of a SM. You have no proof of your "3 lightyears" bull crap.
about mushroomheads comment, You cannot possibuly win the imperium has hade over 40,000 years to perfect armour and arms in REAL war Experince conqours ALL, the Astartes can live for thousands of years fighting millions of battles your MAC rounds cannot penertrate our ADNAMTIUM armour cremite is only for show, We have fought the hords of Chaos, Tyrranid invasions, Xenos Scum, The immortal Necrons and blood tratiors for ten thousand years we have stood strong YOU HERATIC ARE DONE!!!!!!
@ImperialElite666 It is very possible seeing as terra watt fire power guts Imperial ships. 40k in the future and the SM armor is nowhere near as advanced as MJOLNIR. lol Except no Asartes is a thousand years old. lol "ADNAMTUM" gets destroyed easily by wh40ks substandard weaponry what makes you think that it can withstand HALO weaponry? ORKS= idiots with IRON weaponry, TYRANIDS= MAC canon food, Necrons=slow moving targets who like everyone in wh40k are destroyed for good with plasma.
MC is tough but, sorry, Space Marine Wins 9/10 fights. Only thing MC has on a "basic" Marine is the forcefield. When that goes down, it needs a bit alone time to recharge. Something a Marine would never let him have.
"The Heavy Iron armature waverd then came down hard... "Defiler", Turcio cried out the machines name, and rang bolt shells headlessly against it's gore streaked hull."
'bwahahahahaha, you have no reply and I've proven that BOLTS cannot penetrate Iron much less Titanium which has a Tensile strength 5 times that of Iron, Like I said, I cannot convince Blind Fanboyism, which you clearly are
@baval5
The books consistantly describe the battery killing over, and as stated previously game mechanics are not canon
1R0QU012 1 hour ago
The Imperium has more ships then you do MAC rounds.
And I wonder why you guys are not fighting over the ground battles? Because the Space Marines whoop Halo's ass six ways to Sunday.
Let the Heretics BURN IN HOLY FIRE!
LeeyroyJenkins 14 hours ago
Its so stupid its funny
ExplodingGruntz 1 day ago
@baval5
TT mechanics are non-canon dumbass.
Halo Game Mechanics are non- canon dumbass.
Both are created to form a fun/fair gaming environment.
1R0QU012 1 day ago
@1R0QU012 in other words "i want to pick and choose whats my canon from what i like"
Because clearly the stable and consistent "ap 3 beats armor 4" is NOTHING so reliable as the novels incredible continuity, such as "A power sword has a near infinite fusion powersource/after cutting through the tanks hull the swords powerpack was drained and the sword was useless"
baval5 5 hours ago
@1R0QU012 so which is it, does a power sword have unlimited energy or is it drained after cutting through one tank? I got both of those from Black Library books, they cant both be canon
baval5 5 hours ago
@bavl5
TT mechanics are non- canon dumbass.
1R0QU012 1 day ago
And finally, to put the last nail in the "Halo vs Warhammer" coffin, a .50 cal anti material rifle is used to one shot Spartans in Halo straight through their armor and shielding, while a .75 cal bolter round (which btw uses both a shell and rockets to propel it and does NOT stop firing shortly after leaving the barrel the Ultramarines move be damned) will not even pierce a Karsakins 4+ armor save, to say nothing of Terminators 2+/5+
baval5 1 day ago
not really fair lol different universes lol but of course space marine every time even on a bad day lol
CRAZYPADDY2008 1 day ago
Woah! Lucky for that terminator he scored 4+ with 2 powerfist attacks and then got at least 1 penetrating hit with a 6 as damage result! (he would die otherwise)
KnarkPekka 2 days ago
@KnarkPekka not true, he autohits on death or glory and he only needed to immobilize or stun it. Luckily for him he rolled a 5 and wrecked it instead (there was no explosion)
baval5 1 day ago
@nocandy4u2
I gotcha man. But as far as Fall as Damnos was concerned, that human chick was the only thing that allowed those "scout" marines to find and destroy the Necron artillary. Which opened the campaing up to the rest of the Ultramarines in orbit. The moral of that entire story is Sicarus' pride caused them to get their asses handed to them.
1R0QU012 2 days ago
@1R0QU012 yeah sicarius is a dick.
to quote a guy on /tg/ earlier today "Sicarius is a glory hounding douchebag, more to the point, have you seen that guy? If they put any more bling on him, he's shine brighter than 100 million 'gangstas'" lol
nocandy4u2 1 day ago
I hate these kind of videos where the creator of the vid is always on one side.
GruntSplatterSpree 2 days ago
@nocandy4you2
They also has to rely on human beings, The necrons tore the hell out of the dreadnoughts, Cato Sicarus got his ass handed to him, and they loss half thier fighting strength.
1R0QU012 2 days ago
@1R0QU012 true, but the human support was minimal for the most part.
My only point being that their power level varied from book to book. I'm going to drop here though because my interest in arguments over who's the stronger franchise is minimal
As long as Halo makes good games, and as long as 40k gives me a setting to play a cool TT wargame in, I don't really care who is stronger
nocandy4u2 2 days ago
take the golden age of technology for example attack us then and you will lose, age of strife different story alltogether
ImperialElite666 2 days ago
so when you got to war with us make sure you pick the right time line or you will get you asses kicked
ImperialElite666 2 days ago
what ever one needs to consider is that w40k is made up of not just the imperium but is also based on variaty of time lines
ImperialElite666 2 days ago
The problem here is that Halo has its base in reality.
You people are aware, that in 40k, a musket is more powerful than a modern day assault rifle? They have the exact same stats except the musket is slightly less accurate, and slightly more deadly.
I can upload a screenshot
nocandy4u2 3 days ago
@nocandy4u2 what source do you have for this claim?
mushroomhead86 2 days ago
@mushroomhead86 2nd edition wargear rulebook. imageshack(dot)us/photo/my-images/607/lolmusket.jpg/
nocandy4u2 2 days ago
@nocandy4u2 it says nothing about a musket being better than rifles of today. Their is a reason why we don't use them today and only "backwards worlds" in 40k do. Sure a musket round will do more trauma to a target because the round is larger and slower but that doesn't mean they can defeat a Spartans shields, a musket is a musket.
mushroomhead86 2 days ago
@mushroomhead86 comparing to halo was not my point. My point is apparently in the universe of 40k, muskets are more powerful than weapons that are the equivalent to 20th century assault rifles.
nocandy4u2 2 days ago
@nocandy4u2 a musket now days if fired at a human being will obliterate bones but are short range weapons, A 30-06 will do less damage but can reach out and touch someone at 1km. (cont)
mushroomhead86 2 days ago
@mushroomhead86 There is nothing in that rulebook that states a musket in 40k is more deadly than weapons of today.
mushroomhead86 2 days ago
@mushroomhead86 well my underlining point is that I honestly don't think this debate will ever end, the fanboyish is too strong on both sides and I don't (cont. God this new limit is annoying)
nocandy4u2 2 days ago
@mushroomhead86 understand why people devote so much time to defending their favorite fictional setting.
nocandy4u2 2 days ago
@nocandy4u2 It's a time killer... 1R0QU012, and I only post information from the sources(kinda how a debate is suppost to go), against poeple who say things like "HERATIC" and other nonsense.
mushroomhead86 2 days ago
@mushroomhead86 the fanboysim is pretty apparent on the 40k side
mushroomhead86 2 days ago
@mushroomhead86 especially when most wh40k media proves them wrong
mushroomhead86 2 days ago
@mushroomhead86 The one stance I will take on this argument though is this: Who wins, a space marine or a spartan?
It honestly depends on who's writing the space marine, their power level fluctuates wildly from writer to writer, or even story to story.
nocandy4u2 2 days ago
@nocandy4u2 Not from what I've read, Ultramarines series, Space wolf series, Henry Zous novels, the only thing that fluctuates is the competence of there enemies... ie untrained humans, Tau who apparently have no markmanship skills, choas follwers armed with sharpened sticks iron swords and shotguns. another constant thing is normal humans being able to fight toe to toe with SMs and in most cases almost beating them...
mushroomhead86 2 days ago
@mushroomhead86 well in Fall of Damnos, a squad of ten tactical marines waded through a horde of necrons and didnt get anything but a scratch on their paint job. 100 marines beat back an entire army.
nocandy4u2 2 days ago
@mushroomhead86 an army that was said to be visible miles away, included half a dozen monoliths.
and they did it without any kind of armor support (and one squad was stated to have killed a titan)
nocandy4u2 2 days ago
@nocandy4u2 lol I'll have to read this book it feels like your leaving something out.
mushroomhead86 2 days ago
@mushroomhead86 they did have human support, but with two exceptions the humans existed to comment on how awesome the space marines were and be killed.
The one piece of artillery in the story fired on a monolith, had no effect, and got blown up.
after the book ends they lose -in the codex-, since the Necrons send another army since they can rebuild their lost troops.
but there's another book out their where you could strangle a space marine with a cordless phone. it really depends on the writer
nocandy4u2 2 days ago
@mushroomhead86 it was to underline that40k makes no sense and that I think comparing such a nonsensical universe to other settings is pointless.
It'd be like comparing alice in wonderland to reality.
nocandy4u2 2 days ago
theyre both technically space marines...
turd111111 3 days ago
Master chief VS Draigo in an epic rap battle would be epic!
KnarkPekka 3 days ago
@KnarkPekka Essentially Chief vs armoured space Jesus on steroids.
/Matt Ward
Mcstompington 3 days ago
@Mcstompington
Don't forget space satans sword that he crafted with only his bare hands! /fan boy
KnarkPekka 2 days ago
@KnarkPekka Don't see how I'm being a fan boy saying that the Draigo fluff is retarded but whatever.
Mcstompington 1 day ago
I stick with the master chief : / the space marine can barely move around, and the chief has shields. Plus all he really need to do is run around that bulk of steel and do a head shoot.
cleny217 3 days ago
@cleny217 "Space Marine can barely move around", what crack have you been puffing?
Mcstompington 3 days ago
Comment removed
FalcisUltima9 3 days ago
@cleny217 haha nice one i lol'd...wait u are serious??
FalcisUltima9 3 days ago
@cleny217 The power armor of a space marine is stated to in no way affect their mobility or speed.
I believe that goes for Terminator armor as well.
If you're looking for realism, 40k is not the setting for you.
nocandy4u2 3 days ago
@nocandy4u2 Oh i already knew that, i just felt like stating that. Course also i think the space marines are in a society more advanced the the master chiefs. The society might be more primitive, but more advanced.
cleny217 2 days ago
@cleny217 @cleny217 I looked it up, powered armor makes them faster and more maneuverable while Terminator armor makes them slightly slower.
Artificer Armor, which is usually reserved for Captains or the Chapter Master, has all the benefits of the power armor with all the protection of terminator armor (but it lacks the shield (5+ invulnerable save on the tabletop) of terminator armor).
nocandy4u2 2 days ago
@cleny217 2+ armor 5+ invul and he can run faster than any human. Terminator armor is heavy, but Space Marines are strong. A headshot would do little more than piss him off.
baval5 1 day ago
We have more ships then you do MAC rounds...
LeeyroyJenkins 3 days ago
@LeeyroyJenkins The MAC can pick off the Imperial ships as far away as the moon (impact at 3 seconds) every 5 seconds and firing as many as 30 missles at a time from one pod, Halo frigates and destroyers have 60 missle pods each(The Ultra Marines Omnibus shows that the Imperium does not engage until they are in at least 10,000 km of distance from the enemy and that just 6 missles are almost impossible to destroy befor impacting on the ship)
mushroomhead86 2 days ago
@mushroomhead86 but imperial ships have void shields, and they do have long range weaponry such as rail cannons and las lances. only the missiles are short range ordnance. Plus the Imperium has boarding torpedoes.
baval5 1 day ago
@baval5 yeah they do have void sheilds...whicha are overloaded by terra watt weaponry(MAC gun liberates 76 terratons of kinetc force which is millions of times stronger)
mushroomhead86 1 day ago
@mushroomhead86 oh stop with the overloaded by terrawatt weaponry bs. First of all, you say "game mechanics are not canon!" but then can quote our first edition rulebook from a company that has no idea what its talking about for info? Second of all, we DO know about how powerful a void shield is at armor 12, which is weak enough to be broken by a single missile. However, to make up for this they are protected by LAYERS of void shields so that it takes many hits to reach hull.
baval5 1 day ago
@baval5 furthermore in an average wargame/roleplaying game a turn lasts 6 seconds, and void shields can be regenerated in a turn, meaning that you would need to fire shots fast enough to penetrate all the shields within 6 seconds or theyll just begin to regenerate on you while firing, and you must do that to the dozens if not hundreds of ships in orbit around the planet before they can open up with long range ordnance like the Nova Cannon.
baval5 1 day ago
@baval5 which is why Titan hunting companys are several Baneblades escorting a single Shadowsword, because a single high powered shot will do nothing to a void shield protected unit, it takes massive firepower over time followed by a killing blow to take one down.
baval5 1 day ago
Seems legit
puffdany 3 days ago
what a fuckign retard. drink some bleach, it helps
fatshoki 3 days ago
Chief would get mind fucked just looking at 40k's grimdarkiness, then the grimdarkiness would form one huge ass Emperor created Astartes cock and rape his shit.
True story.
Mcstompington 4 days ago
@Voltaire152
Just cute, the Imperium fires Single Megaton warheads :)
In addition to unleashing "torrents" of terawatt beams?
LOL, do the Math and HALO WILL BLOW YOUR FUCKING MIND!!
1R0QU012 4 days ago
hmm it's a Terminator, not a Space Marine :/ i mean, ye, inside it is. But outside, definitly a Terminator. :D
Mirco1988 4 days ago
@Voltaire152
Be aware that Imperial weaponry is fired broadside style, fill an area with as much fire power as possible and pray you hit something, Rogue Trader Core Rulebook pg 218-219. With heavy ordinances like Nova Canons fire by Iron sights and take 30 minutes to reload, Warriors of Ultramar.
UNSC shipbased weapon systems are fired by ship board AIs and depending on the size of the ship can fire a MAC round every 5- 15 seconds.
1R0QU012 4 days ago
@Voltaire152
The Halo numbers comes from The Halo Encyclopedia.
The formula for Kinetic Energy is:
KE= .5m*v^2
Where mass is in Kilograms
velocity is in meters/ second
and KE is in Joules
The conversion from joules to Megaton is:
1 megaton = 4.184petajoules
1R0QU012 4 days ago
@Voltaire152
A Mac Round Is Weighs 600 tons Its fire at a velocity of .4C[40% the speed of Light]. do the Math, this is the standard armament for a UNSC frigate.
Orbital MACs up the ante to 3000 tons and .5C.
Per Rogue trader core rulebook pg 218, Imperial LASER batteries have terawatt yields. Per work energy principle 1 watt = 1 joule/second
A single terajoule is .004 of a single megaton
1R0QU012 4 days ago
@Iamsosmartest
This is the problem with Imperial Tactics in the UNSC vs Imperium scenario. The UNSC has the activation Index for the Halo Array and access to Onyx. 10,000 year of "Grinding attrition" isn't easily undone. After an array fire the Imperium won't have an infinite supply of meat for the grinder, and UNSC ONI isn't shy about using nukes to deal with massed infantry. The Imperium has been in technological decline since the Horus Heresy, the OLDEST ships being the most powerful.
1R0QU012 4 days ago
@1R0QU012 The Imperium uses Exterminatus on entire PLANETS of its own people simply to make sure that its defeated an enemy.... There really ISN'T another culture more willing to turn a blind eye to the suffering of the individual for the good of the many. Plus you gotta remember its a simple case of numbers with Imperial guard. Even if you use nukes the Imperium still has more....
Voltaire152 4 days ago
When Master Chief grows up he wants to be a Space Marine
motm691 5 days ago 28
@motm691 he never wanted to become one they took him away when he was 6 -.-
inpukipje2 1 day ago
@notenufdaka
to expand on my point below, an imperial starship has its voids overloaded by several shots from enemy LASER batteries[ Horus Heresy: Fallen Angels], as stated previously, MAC rounds have 70 million times the yield of any imperial LASER. I highly doubt Imperial starships are exchanging broadsides in any single engagement for 70 million shots just to overload the other vessels voidshielding.
1R0QU012 5 days ago
@1R0QU012 It would not really matter, even if you disregard the fact that the imperium have different ship classes as well as the fact that they might have changed their arnament since the Horus heresy. The Imperium could simply drown the spartans in a seemingly endless sea of soldiers and ships.
Iamsosmartest 4 days ago
@notenufdaka
You have a source for all that? I'm certainly not about to take your word for it.
Additionally, even IF they can displace "most" of the impact force, a single MAC round has 70 million times the yield of shipbased LASER batteries in 40k.
1R0QU012 5 days ago
@1R0QU012 Where is your source for a MAC round being 70M times the yield of a laser battery? Further more imperium ships don't use laser batteries, this isn't Star Trek, They use LANCES but even that is a prow-only weapon. The main weapons are either torpedo's or cannons firing mega-ton warheads.
Voltaire152 4 days ago
@BigSwede7403
Actually, Starship void shields are overloaded after taking multiple hits from Terawatt beam weapons, a weapon 70 million times that strength[MAC] would rip through even the strongest voids and completely obliterate the ship.
Master Chief canonically is an average spartan. This is stated in the opening vutscene to Halo 3, so he is the best control specimen for this argument, as he isn't the strengest the fastest or the smartest.
1R0QU012 5 days ago
@1R0QU012 Void shields are made from four layers.
The first and fourth layers are Power fields similar to those used in power weapons, and work by destabilising the molecular structure of enemy projectiles.
The second layer is a Conversion field that tries to absorb incoming energy attacks and thus use their energy to power the other layers.
The third one is the Displacement field, which transports almost all enemy attacks that pierced the first and second layers into the Warp.
notenufdaka 5 days ago
lol.
CRAIGLESLIE2012 6 days ago
Comment removed
1R0QU012 6 days ago
@Ariaelyne to chiefs? jk
BarretM28A1 6 days ago
heh, noticed a typo after hitting post.
Also, in case no one noticed; the video features a marine in terminator armour. Stacking the deck a little heavily to one sides favour.
Ariaelyne 6 days ago
I find it hilarious that someone was trying to prove Warhammer 40k to physics, the series was not made by scientists; half of the things you find in the novels will not work the same in actuality. Sci Fi writers have no sense of scale and Art Major physics are at the powers at work.
On the actual point, I'd have to vote for the marine more due to the ineffectiveness of conventional arms to the marine's power amour. Though MC could probably pull something out of his hat to win it, somehow.
Ariaelyne 6 days ago
not to but in but arn't you people forgetting the pskyers, no shield nor armour can stop an attack directed straight to your into mind and an AI if i'm correct is just like the human mind (or directlly linked) so same vunrabilitys same affects.
ImperialElite666 1 week ago
LOOK
GUYS
40K HAS MAGIC
HALO DOESN'T
NiezlyGracz 1 week ago
good job dave
Ensiferlul 1 week ago
The Imperial Guard are estimated to be a Trillion strong soldier wise, minus millions of armor and other heavy weaponry.
That's enough to destroy all of the Covenant, the Flood AND the UNSC together.
Let alone all of the Ten Thousand strong Astartes Legions and combined with the Imperial Navy, Inquisition and other high Sec branches.
There should be no argument here brothers, let the HERETICS BURN IN HOLY FIRE!
LeeyroyJenkins 1 week ago 15
@LeeyroyJenkins Astartes LEGIONS? Heresy!
Iamsosmartest 4 days ago
@LeeyroyJenkins if only i could press the thumbs up button more than once o.O
CRACKSHOT37034 3 days ago
my argument has ended a case has been proven by mear logic this war between us will end in a stalemate now all we do is wait.
ImperialElite666 1 week ago
take adolf hitler for example, superior weapons, tactics and more yet a fu*k up lead to a war on two fronts which leaded to his defeat and note to all those who don't understand histroy will repeat it. eg the UNSC will fall eventually (not saying how cause IDK) and 17 thousand years later the Emperor will rise and face horous and be mortally wounded but victorius and be placed on the golden throne for ten thousand years to either die (hope not) or walk among us one again and finish of chaos.
ImperialElite666 1 week ago
can i say something and (you) try to understand , since both time lines are about 37 thousand years apart (not light years either) how do you think that you can magically travel through time to a battle front no side can win nor lose and even if you were able to that would leave you vunrable to covenet and flood attacks so you would be fighting a war in two time lines at the same time and histroy would be dommed to repeat it's self.
ImperialElite666 1 week ago
Oops my bad LOL!!!!!!!
RiotOfficer1990 1 week ago
In the Grim Darkness of this youtube page, there is only (flame) war.
nocandy4u2 1 week ago 2
@BigSwede7403
You can't prove the methodology behind Voidshields muchless the "resistance" they are able to enact. a sincle MAC round has 70 million times the yield of a LAS battery on an Imperial Starship[ Rogue Trader Core rule Book pg 218], Terawatt beam weapons over loading Voidshielding in seconds. Additionally you'd need to provide a quote stating that the space marine's can dodge super sonic rounds.
1R0QU012 1 week ago
I find it amusing people try to compare 40k and Halo when the two universes on in compatible on a fundamental level - they don't even obey the same laws of physics.
nocandy4u2 1 week ago 2
@nocandy4u2 exactly and espically when the space marine proof is fucking cheap
element4057 1 week ago
@nocandy4u2 i agree but i think its far more amusing to join the argument and watch thier heads explode at the number of time they need to comment to prove a point that realy can't be proven
ImperialElite666 1 week ago
A spartian is about the level of an imperial storm trooper, i like them both but if you understand the matchup and the cannon behind it, its not much of a fight, the space marine wins it.
RedGrobo 1 week ago
so how about we call a temperory truce and lets some other people comment on what they think about the video and not worrie about us lots strangling the Fuck out if each other OK or can't you lot handle that?
ImperialElite666 1 week ago
but since there is not exact repellica of either power armour this argument cannot be prooved we ALL could argue for a hundred years and still get no where or untill the armour, arms and the rest is made to prove who is better yet knowing both sides neither can afford a large scale war you still have some issues with getting through the warp and i can't be stuffed racing to the eye of terra to attack you let allone the forces of Chaos, i'm still cleaning up the tyrrinads on Maccrage.
ImperialElite666 1 week ago
@ImperialElite666 This arguement can be settleled using the canon from both sides, which is all 1ROQU012 and I use. Fanboys ruin the arguement and base their claims of off thier raging love for wh40k. The UNSC doesn't use the warp they have slipspace (demon free more reliable means of FTL)
mushroomhead86 1 week ago
@mushroomhead86 but which universe does the fight take place in?
This just means in the 40k universe, Halo ships are stuck and vice versa.
nocandy4u2 1 week ago
@nocandy4u2 A neutral battle ground so niether side has an advantage
mushroomhead86 1 week ago
@mushroomhead86 I don't think it makes a difference. I think the two settings are totally incompatible.
The two universes operate on fundamentally different laws of physics, their plasma might not even be the same.
Also 40k has a contradictory canon because you, as the player, are supposed to interpret what's true for yourself and what's just propaganda. How do you compare a canon like that with another and think it'll end in something other than perpetual fanwank.
nocandy4u2 1 week ago
@nocandy4u2 Of course you don't think so your arguement is totally based on your own opinion. The inforfation is there and has been posted. Wh40K is simply outclassed by Halo, the time differences do not matter.
mushroomhead86 1 week ago
@mushroomhead86 I'm not saying either setting is stronger than the other.
I'm saying that Halo has a stable, consistent canon while 40k is made to be a player's playground to create their own stories on the tabletop, the player can literally pick or choose what is true and what isn't (thus the contradiction).
I don't understand how one could think that you could rationally and accurately compare the strengths of two settings like that.
nocandy4u2 1 week ago
@nocandy4u2 Because the information is in the Codexs and novels which are updated all the time. Sure you can choose to play an older game and like it more but the newer information is what it is.
mushroomhead86 1 week ago
@mushroomhead86
Codices are offically faction propaganda outside of the base facts though and I could easily dismiss any novel that disagrees with me as such. And the way the canon is structured, I'd be just as correct as the offending novel is.
And it's for this reason that anytime you compare 40k to anything, all you'll get 20+ pages of flame war with no decisive winner.
And that's all I'll say on the matter.
nocandy4u2 1 week ago
@nocandy4u2 Lol who said that? you? No the codexs are the facts if they are too vauge then you need to find exapmles in the other canon information, everything is there, it's just wh40k fans choose to believe everything in wh40k is ubber awesomeness
mushroomhead86 1 week ago
@mushroomhead86 Actually he's right, 40k is a pick and choose what's true kind of universe. It's what gives you so much freedom to create your own chapters/xeno factions.
You're also right in "believe everything in wh40k is ubber awesomeness" having seen people try to argue that 40k could beat The Culture (lol).
But that point would be far more valid, and far less ironic and funny, if it came from someone other than one who has been arguing for the uber awesomeness of halo for months on end.
waaaaaaghhammer 1 week ago 3
@waaaaaaghhammer It would be funny and ironic IF I were saying that a Spartan could beat everything, but I'm not. I'm saying a Spartan could defeat a space marine based on what I know about both sides
mushroomhead86 6 days ago
you seem to have misplaced you infomation bolters, heavy bolters, assultcannons were not designed to combat unarmoured bastards thats for the imperialguards lasguns the Astartes weapons can punch through ALL know material they were made to kill heavly armoured foes you shielding may give you a chance in ranged warfair but in CQB the Astartes will ALLWAYS win and you think we will just stand there and let you shoot at us thats a mistake that will get you killed
ImperialElite666 1 week ago
@BigSwede7403
Additionally a bolt cannot be so massive that a human being cannot fire one one armes as is the case with Gregor Eisenhorn and Ciaphas Cain among others who manage bolt pistols quite easily despite their supposed high mass.
I've got to clock out now, so till next time.
1R0QU012 1 week ago
@BigSwede7403
Your guess is horrible, the thought that a low velocity impact could shatter a "super dense" object is retarded. Spartans are capable of dodging super sonic bullets, dodging a bolt round isn't going to be that much of a feat by your reconning. And yes they are in essense the same thing. Singulatiries having enough mass to break space-time attests to this fact.
1R0QU012 1 week ago
@1R0QU012 "Spartan dodgin supersonic bullets" Quote and link please.
"Space-time and armor" I think you should go talk to your physics teacher. Bring aspirin. He´s going to need it.
"Humans and boltguns" Yeees, they are using boltguns designed for normal humans. While powerfull, they do not come near to the punch of an Astartes bolter which will rip the arm of an unmodified human. Maybe if they are wearing power armor they might use an Astartes bolter. Maybe.
BigSwede7403 1 week ago
@BigSwede7403 Fall of Reach by Eric Nylund MJOLNIR section. The Master Chief dodges gun fire at point blank range from the MA5B assault rifle. Also Spartans dodged rounds from automated turrets (7.62)when they recieved MK IV armor.
mushroomhead86 1 week ago
@1R0QU012 As for shattering bolts, you do realise that a bolt is made up of mroe than just the core and the tip, right? There is the casing, the mass reactor, the detonator, the explosive charge. All of which are not super dense and can shatter if it strikes something hard enough. Also, density does not equal tensile strength. If so we would be using gold tools to form steel, not the other way around.
BigSwede7403 1 week ago
@BigSwede7403
Additionally if bolts explode only after penetration what happens if the don't penetrate a material? do they just drop and thats the end of it?
1R0QU012 1 week ago
@BigSwede7403
If the Projectile is no longer experiencing positive acceleration then It will not continue through a material. Big Rounds have plenty of Inertial mass hence they keep moving when in motion[possibly through a material]. Small projectiles especially those of the Impact explosive variety not so much inertial mass so it takes less to stop them.
1R0QU012 1 week ago
@1R0QU012 Point moot, Bolters are Gyrojet weapons, the projectile accellerate all the way to the target unless it is at extreme ranges. 0.75 caliber is what i would concider a big round. Bolts are designed to detonate after penetration, not at impact. Bolts have a superdense core and a realy hard penetrator tip, which means they have mass a-plenty.
BigSwede7403 1 week ago
@BigSwede7403
Bolt rounds expend their fuel a second after leaving the Barrel of the Bolter,[ultramarine moive]. High mass requires more work to propel the projectile leaving less room for acceleration, back to inertai, an object at rest tends to want to stay at rest especially massive objects
1R0QU012 1 week ago
@1R0QU012 Depends on the size of the mass. While a core of steel would take up a lot of room, a depleted uranium (for example) would not take up as much for the same mass. As for inertia, yes, this is true. Your point? Ceramite beign penetrated by .45 projectile. I presume you are refering to the game rules here, Simple, when a pistol penetrates power armor it´s because they manage to hit the weak spot. Joints, eye pieces. Things like that.
BigSwede7403 1 week ago
@BigSwede7403
per "KE= Mass* Velocity^2", most the energy of a moving projectile is imparted by the velocity, so being slow moving and heavy doesn't help.
1R0QU012 1 week ago
Comment removed
mushroomhead86 1 week ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@1R0QU012 Lol I face palmed when I read " how thick was the iron?" and then not 2 seconds later " Defilers have really thick armor." this kid is a retarded troll
mushroomhead86 1 week ago
@BigSwede7403
*sigh* Force is Mass*Accelleration.
When a projectile impacts a surface it transfer it's kinetic energy to the surface of the energy is sufficient It will keep going by moving the impacted surface out of the way, Bolts do not have enough energy to "keep going" through Iron plates. Much less Titanium which requires 5 times the force needed to penetrate Iron. Try Again
1R0QU012 1 week ago
@1R0QU012 So you are saying that a 1mm thick iron plate can stop a bolt. A 1mm thick iron plate can´t even stop a normal pistol round today. Now why on earth would the elite warriors of a interstellar empire use weapons that can be outperformed by a 9mm pistol from some 40.000 years in the past? You always need thickness to deform and absorb the energy of the moving projectile.
BigSwede7403 1 week ago
@BigSwede7403
you may want to ask games workshop that question. Additionally ask them why super awesome ceramite plate is out performed by kevlar vests as Ceramite is penetrated by .45 cal Brass projectiles
1R0QU012 1 week ago
@BigSwede7403
No, you don't, Space-time has no thicknesss but as my homeboy Einstein has proven mass distorts it just fine
1R0QU012 1 week ago
@1R0QU012 Wait, are you trying to compare how mass effects on space-time with how projectiles deform physical armor? As for slow and heavy... There is slow and then there is slow. A bolt is not as fast as a regular bullet, but it is in no way slow as in "I see it and can dodge it". As it is also much larger and heavier it still packs one hell of a kinetic impact. As to what happens with failed penetrations. My guess, they deform and shatter or gets lodged in the armor.
BigSwede7403 1 week ago
NOT to premote Chaos or any thing to piss of the inqusition, but you spartan followers could be fighting a DEAMON PRINCE!!! in which by the time the spartan hits planet fall he could be tainted and the rest of the UNSC since you have had no training to halt the taint of chaos i think its safe to say YOU ARE ALL FU*KED so next time you want to comment take a good look at your comrads think are they tainted or ARE YOU!!!!!!!!!
ImperialElite666 1 week ago
And You are Forgetting The GREYKNIGHTS none have scumbed to the taint of Chaos even the Choas Gods fear thier might, An Empire of a Million worlds Conqourers of every race of Xenos ever known from The Orkz, Eldar, Tau, Tyrrinids, Dark Eldar and far more, your shields may stop covernet weapons and your own but the Astartes don't Use 40mm Grenade lunchers We Use Bolters, Plasma guns, Assult cannons, Lascannons and more.
your fleet Will Never survive an Extermatus nothing has NOTHING WILL
ImperialElite666 1 week ago
@ImperialElite666 Asartes use a 19mm round, Plasma weapons that are rare and slow to shoot (halo has plasma and they are automatic) Assault canons... lol 30 mm auto turrets, 50 mm canons ect. Lascanons great Spartan lasers can be used by a single man.
The Imperial fleet would be taking fire from as far away as Mars with th MAC gun. lol sorry fanboy wh40k is outclassed
mushroomhead86 1 week ago
@mushroomhead86 "No Astartes is a thousand years old." Chapter Master Dante, Bjorn the Fell-Handed and a few others dissagree with you on that.
"LOL Plasma weapons!!" You mean the same uber plasma weapons that can´t kill a normal human soldier unless you get 4 or 5 hits in?
"Spartan lasers" are rare prototype weapons, unlike las cannons which there are plenty of. And they too can be used by one Marine.
"taking fire from Mars" Lance batteries. Shields.
BigSwede7403 1 week ago
@BigSwede7403 One asartes and a dreadnaught... that makes every SM thousands of years old, right.
Yeah game mechanics are not canon, nice try.
Spartan lasers are not rare and they are no longer prototype weapons as of halo 3, they can be fielded by an unaugemented human being with ease, a single SM can use a lascanon yes, but they are also slower and easier targets.
Lance batteries have a range of tens of thousands of kilometers lol which is point blank to the UNSC navy.
mushroomhead86 1 week ago
@mushroomhead86 "shields" are drained with ease by terra watts of energy. The MAC liberates 76 terratons of kinetic energy...
mushroomhead86 1 week ago
@mushroomhead86 "Shields and terratons of energy" If they hit, yes. And unfortunatly, Void Shields does not work by resisting the impact, they displace the impact altogether. No impact, no energy released.
"Dodging SS projectiles" Fair enough, but that means Marines do that too as it´s been described in novels. But mostly against heavier stuff as Marines are not bothered by small stuff like normal rifle rounds unless it comes at them in the hundreds.
Obviously the Spartans are.
BigSwede7403 1 week ago
@BigSwede7403 Quote for SMs dodging projectiles... you can't just say "in the novels" and provide nothing.
mushroomhead86 1 week ago
@BigSwede7403 "If they hit" unless the wh40k ships can move faster than 40 percent the speed of light they are going to get hit.
mushroomhead86 1 week ago
@mushroomhead86 "Going to get hit" If they are in (by astronomical scale) pretty much point blank. 120K kilometer per second (For the Super MAC on orbital platforms) is pretty fast. But that still means it would take a shot 3 seconds from earth to the moon. Ship-board are pretty much standing still at 3 kilometer per second.
Would an ODP kill an Imperial ship with a direct hit? Deffinitly. If they hit, and the shields are down.
BigSwede7403 5 days ago
@mushroomhead86 "One Astartes" Actualy, quite a few Dreads are ancient. And i didn´t say every Marine is 1000+ years. It was you that claimed no Marines at all were that age.
"Game mechanis are not canon" So that means all the Halo games are not canon either. Interesting concept there.
"Spartan lasers" Actualy, Las canons can be used by a single unmodded human too. It´s just not a common occurence. Also, who said Marines are slower and easier targets?
BigSwede7403 1 week ago
@BigSwede7403 Thats great, too bad the fight isn't Spartan vs Dreadnaught.
Game mechanics are not canon,the story is...there is a difference.
great so people like Gunnery Sgt. Harker can do this. Not your run of the mill soldier. In the Halo universe ANY soldier can field a Spartan laser, thats my point.
mushroomhead86 1 week ago
@mushroomhead86 "That´s great" No, it´s Spartan 117 Vs a normal Marine. Exceptional as he might be by Halo standards, if we put 117 up against someone like Ragnar Blackmane, Lord Mephiston or the like he would not stand a chance. Against an average Marine i´d say 8-9 losses for MC for every win. Maybe a bit better if he gets to cherrypick his equipment and the Marine doesn´t.
"AI´s aim" At what ranges are we talking about?
BigSwede7403 5 days ago
@BigSwede7403 A normal marine? That's a Terminator, you dolt. Not just any marine is granted the Crux Terminatus.
CBAwiththisshit 5 days ago
@CBAwiththisshit Well... unless he;s a Grey Knight Space marine :P
Voltaire152 4 days ago
@mushroomhead86 Gunny Harker and pretty much anyone with sufficient strength. The reason you see heavy weapons teams in WH40K is because it´s more effective for two persons to carry a heavy weapon and all the ammo it needs, rather than just one person. Pretty much for the same reason you see medium machineguns and rocket launchers being crewed by 2.
The S-Laser doesn´t need the 2nd crew because it can´t normaly be recharged in the field at all.
BigSwede7403 5 days ago
@BigSwede7403 Gunny Harker and friends are not the usual which was my point, and Spartan lasers can be "reloaded" in the field, just not in gameplay for balancing. Read the Halo encyclopedia and Visual guide the S-Laser is a much better weapon and can be feilded by a joe shmo Marine (no gunny Harker types needed)
mushroomhead86 2 days ago
@mushroomhead86 From Halo Wiki. "It is powered by a BA-53635/PLMD non-replaceable battery, which is recharged with a PP-16979/AM-Sh charger. UNSC logistics, however, are not sufficient for the charger to accompany many W/AV M6 G/GNR units in the field."
So yes it can, but generaly is not due to logistics. While a Las cannon cell can be recharged from a wall socket, left out in the sun or put in an open fire.
BigSwede7403 14 hours ago
@mushroomhead86 "MAC to Mars" Speed of 1 Super MAC projectile. 43.200.000 KpH. Closest distance Earth to Mars ever possible. 54.600.000 kilometers. That´s over an hour flighttime for the projectile. Even the tiniest course adjustment would mean the shot misses by hundreds of kilometers.
Also, please link the range estimates for Lance ranges. Would be interesting to see how they explain a laser weapon having limited range in open space.
BigSwede7403 1 week ago
@BigSwede7403 Which is why the UNSC has AIs aim the MAC canons, I'll look for the source on the lance battaries
mushroomhead86 1 week ago
@mushroomhead86 i am no "fan boy" HERATIC you have no proof on the calibur on Astartes weapons iv'e been working for warhammer 40k for twenty years, W40K plasma weapons are not rare, lascannons can be weilded with one hand and can easly out gun your primitive laser weapons, the imperial fleet can engage anything within 3 lightyears of space and even further if the Extermatus cannons were fired through a warp gate i outnumber you,out gun you +with 10,000 years of exp out smart you
ImperialElite666 1 week ago
@ImperialElite666 ok troll
mushroomhead86 1 week ago
@ImperialElite666 bolters are .75 cal... please read about calibers. Las canons cannot be weilded with one hand, like autocanons they are too large to be fired from the shoulder, so are carried at the hip of a SM. You have no proof of your "3 lightyears" bull crap.
mushroomhead86 1 week ago
Thank you Brothers for the fight against this Heratic =D
wildkyle25 1 week ago
about mushroomheads comment, You cannot possibuly win the imperium has hade over 40,000 years to perfect armour and arms in REAL war Experince conqours ALL, the Astartes can live for thousands of years fighting millions of battles your MAC rounds cannot penertrate our ADNAMTIUM armour cremite is only for show, We have fought the hords of Chaos, Tyrranid invasions, Xenos Scum, The immortal Necrons and blood tratiors for ten thousand years we have stood strong YOU HERATIC ARE DONE!!!!!!
ImperialElite666 1 week ago
@ImperialElite666 It is very possible seeing as terra watt fire power guts Imperial ships. 40k in the future and the SM armor is nowhere near as advanced as MJOLNIR. lol Except no Asartes is a thousand years old. lol "ADNAMTUM" gets destroyed easily by wh40ks substandard weaponry what makes you think that it can withstand HALO weaponry? ORKS= idiots with IRON weaponry, TYRANIDS= MAC canon food, Necrons=slow moving targets who like everyone in wh40k are destroyed for good with plasma.
mushroomhead86 1 week ago
MC is tough but, sorry, Space Marine Wins 9/10 fights. Only thing MC has on a "basic" Marine is the forcefield. When that goes down, it needs a bit alone time to recharge. Something a Marine would never let him have.
BigSwede7403 1 week ago
Blood Angels Omnibus: Deus Encarmine, pg 55
"The Heavy Iron armature waverd then came down hard... "Defiler", Turcio cried out the machines name, and rang bolt shells headlessly against it's gore streaked hull."
FYI, Turcio is arme with a heavy bolter
1R0QU012 1 week ago
Rynn's World pg. 454
" Cortez did not see any power suites among them, but the Iron plate would be thick enough to stop a direct hit with a bolt."
again I'll stress, bolt cannot penetrate Iron
1R0QU012 1 week ago
@1R0QU012 A bolt, not multiple bolts.
wildkyle25 1 week ago
@wildkyle25
See my Deus Encarmine Quote, and that swith a heavy Bolter or 1.5 calibre compared to the standard .75 calibre use by space marines standard bolter
1R0QU012 1 week ago
@wildkyle25
note that it's pluralized in the Deus Encarmine Quotation ;) effectively nullifying your comment
1R0QU012 1 week ago
@1R0QU012 Just more meaningless quotes, what a fool you are to keep looking them up and posting.
wildkyle25 1 week ago
@wildkyle25
'bwahahahahaha, you have no reply and I've proven that BOLTS cannot penetrate Iron much less Titanium which has a Tensile strength 5 times that of Iron, Like I said, I cannot convince Blind Fanboyism, which you clearly are
1R0QU012 1 week ago
@1R0QU012 You've brought up quotes, OMG I better go warn the internet you have quotes =O . But seriously, quote's dont prove anything.
wildkyle25 1 week ago
@wildkyle25
I'm done with you, Fanboy. If you're going to ignore the Canon material as published by Games-Workshop and their subsidiaries then there's no point
1R0QU012 1 week ago