Since privatization the country has paid in two ways.
1. From spiralling fares, on average 20% higher than on the continent
2. From a government subsidy three times as large as the last year of British Rail - but a railway not three times better, and in some cases worse!
ORR continues to stress NR's costs are 40% higher than they should be...much of this is the legacy of despicable and botched privatization. The outcome is likely to be another re-organization...watch this space!
@lborogay Having been on an ICE, I know they are much better than what we have. For one thing the interiors of trains are always clean.
As for what country they're built in, it just goes to show how mass privatisation has left Britain in such a state that its industry is not even self-sufficient. Meanwhile a lot of skilled workers have to find jobs in other countries.
While I agree that multi-units (depending on how good they are) are better suited to some things, loco-hauled trains are better for others. In this country, we have to use multi-units for everything while in other countries, they use the trains that are best suited to the task.
@lborogay The TOC's statistics look good, but you have to look at their definition of "on-time".
Compare the transport system in Britain to the nationalised transport system in Germany. It isn't perfect but from my experience it is really good. They have services such as drive-on trains, which BR also had (it was a major loss-maker but it is very convenient). We could never make something like an ICE in Britain (in fact we can hardly make any trains now). Rail freight is also very common.
@lborogay Where have you been getting your statistics? All of it is either selective in the use of facts, biased or utter crap. Most passengers and almost all the staff agree about how the railways have gone downhill since privatisation.
As for the so-called modern rolling-stock, there is a difference between "new" and "good". All the new rolling-stock is just cheap, plastic multi-units that are often unfit for purpose. (Part of the reason there's an overcrowding problem).
British Rail was a complete disaster. It's services were horrible, and very rarely have I ever heard something good about them that's not been improved upon since. Privatization, however ,was a success. Of course we have our bad companies (Railtrack and NXEC for example), but we also have our good and better (XC, Virgin, First ScotRail). Our railways once thrived on competition with one another, that's how it should always be.
Are you mad? We pay three times in real terms in subsidy to a railway where costs have exploded and quality improvements no way near match the investments made. BR could barely breathe but still delivered as punctual a railway as the privatized railway does today...and this is without considering the enormous rises in ticket prices.
One of the biggest errors any British Government have ever made.
BR was falling apart. The rolling stock was aging and the railway was in dire need of, ironically, modernization. For example, without Virgin, the Pendolinos would never have lived, and the old loco-hauled trains would've continued.
Privatization was the best thing to happen to our railways. They're far better now than ever before.
Erm exactly how much do you know about the history of BR? INTERCITY, NSE and RR purchased some of the best trains this country now operates and it is no mistake they remain the work horses of the network all over the country. BR was falling apart in the '70s and early '80s, but sectorization perfected quality management and investment vs return ratios have never been higher. The govt. now pays three times as much in subsidy for a railway that is no better or even worse. Tragedy.
and ps. the upgrade of the West Coast Mainline was the logical follow-up to the on-time and on-budget modernization by BR of the East Coast Mainline 1984-91 (and any one who has travelled on an INTERCITY 225 will testify they are far superior a ride than a grotty, claustrophobic Pendolino)...more irony also in that the APT and INTERCITY 250 project produced much of the technology and impetus for the Pendolino project, which the Government, to their grave error, refused to fund.
@Femmenition I would describe the service run by first scotrail as mediocre at best and how can you say that vermin trains are good? There is no competition on a railway. Did you ever go to the station and then choose a company? The closest thing there is to competition is a lack of cooperation, which benefits noone.
To be fair traffic is greater now than it ever was in BR days, with more people using the train. The reason Railtrack failed was because the majority of the maintenance work was done by contractors who didn't do the job well enough resulting in Hatfield. This is why Network Rail came about. Its still not perfect, but its much better. I am a NR employee btw.
The video does seem a bit of a rip off video of what good old British Rail did a few years previous (also on YouTube watch?v=Kejn5Gl_Atw) prior to privatisation. Although I've got to say the BR version was better, before the railway became a fragmented mess.
@ Iborogay
Since privatization the country has paid in two ways.
1. From spiralling fares, on average 20% higher than on the continent
2. From a government subsidy three times as large as the last year of British Rail - but a railway not three times better, and in some cases worse!
ORR continues to stress NR's costs are 40% higher than they should be...much of this is the legacy of despicable and botched privatization. The outcome is likely to be another re-organization...watch this space!
lewis986 1 year ago
@lborogay Having been on an ICE, I know they are much better than what we have. For one thing the interiors of trains are always clean.
As for what country they're built in, it just goes to show how mass privatisation has left Britain in such a state that its industry is not even self-sufficient. Meanwhile a lot of skilled workers have to find jobs in other countries.
newblenderbeer 1 year ago
@lborogay
While I agree that multi-units (depending on how good they are) are better suited to some things, loco-hauled trains are better for others. In this country, we have to use multi-units for everything while in other countries, they use the trains that are best suited to the task.
newblenderbeer 1 year ago
@lborogay The TOC's statistics look good, but you have to look at their definition of "on-time".
Compare the transport system in Britain to the nationalised transport system in Germany. It isn't perfect but from my experience it is really good. They have services such as drive-on trains, which BR also had (it was a major loss-maker but it is very convenient). We could never make something like an ICE in Britain (in fact we can hardly make any trains now). Rail freight is also very common.
newblenderbeer 1 year ago
@lborogay Where have you been getting your statistics? All of it is either selective in the use of facts, biased or utter crap. Most passengers and almost all the staff agree about how the railways have gone downhill since privatisation.
As for the so-called modern rolling-stock, there is a difference between "new" and "good". All the new rolling-stock is just cheap, plastic multi-units that are often unfit for purpose. (Part of the reason there's an overcrowding problem).
newblenderbeer 1 year ago
I see you 318 267!
Femmenition 1 year ago
British Rail was a complete disaster. It's services were horrible, and very rarely have I ever heard something good about them that's not been improved upon since. Privatization, however ,was a success. Of course we have our bad companies (Railtrack and NXEC for example), but we also have our good and better (XC, Virgin, First ScotRail). Our railways once thrived on competition with one another, that's how it should always be.
Femmenition 2 years ago
@Femmenition
Are you mad? We pay three times in real terms in subsidy to a railway where costs have exploded and quality improvements no way near match the investments made. BR could barely breathe but still delivered as punctual a railway as the privatized railway does today...and this is without considering the enormous rises in ticket prices.
One of the biggest errors any British Government have ever made.
lewis986 2 years ago
Comment removed
Femmenition 1 year ago
@lewis986
@lewis986
BR was falling apart. The rolling stock was aging and the railway was in dire need of, ironically, modernization. For example, without Virgin, the Pendolinos would never have lived, and the old loco-hauled trains would've continued.
Privatization was the best thing to happen to our railways. They're far better now than ever before.
British Fail; Never got there.
Femmenition 1 year ago
@Femmenition
Erm exactly how much do you know about the history of BR? INTERCITY, NSE and RR purchased some of the best trains this country now operates and it is no mistake they remain the work horses of the network all over the country. BR was falling apart in the '70s and early '80s, but sectorization perfected quality management and investment vs return ratios have never been higher. The govt. now pays three times as much in subsidy for a railway that is no better or even worse. Tragedy.
lewis986 1 year ago
@Femmenition
and ps. the upgrade of the West Coast Mainline was the logical follow-up to the on-time and on-budget modernization by BR of the East Coast Mainline 1984-91 (and any one who has travelled on an INTERCITY 225 will testify they are far superior a ride than a grotty, claustrophobic Pendolino)...more irony also in that the APT and INTERCITY 250 project produced much of the technology and impetus for the Pendolino project, which the Government, to their grave error, refused to fund.
lewis986 1 year ago
@Femmenition I would describe the service run by first scotrail as mediocre at best and how can you say that vermin trains are good? There is no competition on a railway. Did you ever go to the station and then choose a company? The closest thing there is to competition is a lack of cooperation, which benefits noone.
newblenderbeer 1 year ago
quite all right!
matthewpeter 2 years ago
I was defending privatisation, I made no mention of the Tories.
matthewpeter 2 years ago
I like the advert but railtrack wernt too good though
bronzeonion 2 years ago 5
Railtrack was a failure. they caused the HATFIELD RAIL CRASH.
Quentinmovie 3 years ago 7
Really? I blame the tory government of the time who privatised an industry they knew nothing about, or even understood!
argonaut35i 2 years ago 9
To be fair traffic is greater now than it ever was in BR days, with more people using the train. The reason Railtrack failed was because the majority of the maintenance work was done by contractors who didn't do the job well enough resulting in Hatfield. This is why Network Rail came about. Its still not perfect, but its much better. I am a NR employee btw.
matthewpeter 2 years ago
..."without us the railway doesn't move". But come to think of it, even WITH them, it didn't really move either did it??
TheOpenDitch1986 3 years ago 2
watch?v=a_AsS_6klHQ even for the BR one
DazrahT 3 years ago
And RAILTRACK is no more!
The video does seem a bit of a rip off video of what good old British Rail did a few years previous (also on YouTube watch?v=Kejn5Gl_Atw) prior to privatisation. Although I've got to say the BR version was better, before the railway became a fragmented mess.
DazrahT 3 years ago 2