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From: BereanBeacon
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  • in the words of Kevin Jackson---------THATS MY RANT!!

  • When Rock and Roll along with Top 40s era of music came, it came because America was finally becoming INTEGRATED. If you remember, some of the early R&R had a Black gospel flavor because it was from the spirituals and church along with R&B and C&W, that unfortunantly gave way to Death Metal etc. and the downward slide after 1988---songs are different not styles anymore--to prove it, many teenagers are into WOODSTOCK--compare that to hippies into WW2 music

  • Music is the ONLY thing taught to students. Even more than sports. Music is also within the number 12 just like the 12 hours of day---12 is the number of 'government'--ever since 1988, musical 'evolution' went downhill--not songs but STYLES and it has gotten more VILE====they just use 80s type melodies, but 'yak' all over them--rock music styles are still basically 80s along with rap--the only thing that has changed is songs which are 'sampled' from other songs--God wont give creativity to filth

  • Comment removed

  • The first book of the bible, Genesis indicates the idea that musical ability is genetic - Genesis 4:21 "...His brother's name was Jubal; he was the father of all those who play the lyre and pipe".

  • 90%of musicians are Spiritual in one form or a nother problem is most go down the wrong path.I know one athiest drummer and he cant keep time go figure.

  • So what is a statement like this if not an argument from ignorance? We might not know now, but give science a few decades or years and we'll figure out this seemingly contrary and impossible issue. 

  • @Sickopath333 The "science" of evolution has been generating libraries of excuses for many years and has not succeeded. The time god will never solve this and evolution will always remain a religion.

  • @BereanBeacon1 Creationists have been willfully ignorant for 150 years. Not understanding the evidence will never make evolution go away.

  • @TheScienceFoundation

    cont...

    "At the phenotypic level, the appearance of nylon degrading bacteria would seem to involve “evolution” of new enzymes and transport systems. However, further molecular analysis of the bacterial transformation reveals mutations resulting in degeneration of pre-existing systems."

    basically its a superficially "GOOD" mutation. Just like all other examples of evolution.

    answersingenesis(.)org/article­s/aid/v4/n1/beneficial-mutatio­ns-in-bacteria#fnList_1_77

  • @jeffblue101 Even if there were such a thing as degradation in evolution, nylonase occurred on a duplicate gene, none of the information on the original gene was affected.

    It's a new function on a new gene that didn't affect any extant information in the genome. There is no way to get around this but pure denial.

  • @TheScienceFoundation

    cont...

    "The non-randomness and “clockwork” repeatability of the adaptation clearly indicates a designed mechanism that fits perfectly within the limited “variation within kind” model of Theism, and stays well within the principle of Genetic Entropy since the parent strain is still more fit for survival once the nylon is consumed from the environment"

    uncommondescent(.)com

  • @jeffblue101 'indicates a designed mechanism'

    That's the bare assertion that creationists keep making, without ever being able to support. Whether the parent strain is more fit for a different environment is irrelevant, evolution regards the current environment only and nylonase is more fit in an environment which is nylon oligomer rich.

  • Christianity is unsurpassed in motivating music. Compare all religions and it is obvious.

  • @theinsectmanofwv Hi Karl. They don't have anything to sing about because their gods are dead. I will praise the Lord according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the Lord most high. Psalm 7:17

  • Anyone who thinks this is a good argument should brush up on the list of basic fallacies, in particular;

    en.wikipedia(.)org/wiki/Argume­nt_from_ignorance

  • @thechessstick So what is evolution? I ask because I've never met anyone who could adequately define it that didn't accept it.

  • @TheScienceFoundation Micro-evolution exists. Macro-evolution is just a simple lie designed by Satan for the simpleminded. So, which one would you like me to define?

  • @thechessstick So you're saying you automatically have a religious and unscientific bias against accepting evolution on the large scale?

  • @TheScienceFoundation

    "unscientific bias against accepting evolution on the large scale?"

    it not about the size of the change but if the change that is observed can create upward and outward evolution required for common descent. all know random mutations in single and multi-celled organisms always create a lowered fitness cost. random mutations can not create the new information necessary for common descent and DNA can not come about through an unguided process fully equipped with DNA repair

  • @jeffblue101 'all know random mutations'

    Here's the problem, I literally just had this discussion with you and pointed out how mutation can add information and increase viable function. Now since it's been a few days you seem to just be hoping that was forgotten

    So one more time, the addition of genetic information in the form of a new function on a new gene : /watch?v=gJVjTh98aHU

    The problem isn't with evolution, the problem is you don't want to learn.

  • @TheScienceFoundation

    "So one more time, the addition of genetic information in the form of a new function" through genetic engineering

    creation(.)com/the-adaptation-­of-bacteria-to-feeding-on-nylo­n-waste

    "demonstrated that nylon degrading ability can be obtained de novo in laboratory cultures"

    wiki

    De novo mutation, a genetic mutation that neither parent possessed nor transmitted

    cont...

  • @jeffblue101 Exactly, neither parent had it, it's brand new.

  • @TheScienceFoundation

    "Exactly, neither parent had it, it's brand new."

    the big problem with evolution is the definition the word GOOD when referring to mutations.

    its only environment specific when it should be organism specific. all examples of "evolution" always shows a decrease in fitness in the organism.

    like Kent Hovind said if my foot mutated off that would be a good mutation since i would no longer get foot fungus.

  • @jeffblue101 Of course traits are environment specific, what do you think natural selection is? Why do you think Polar bears have the appearance of white fur?

    Now you're just plugging your ears and literally refusing to even try to understand how this is not a loss in fitness because the mutation occurred on a copy of a gene, no information would've been lost even if the mutation didn't confer a new trait.

  • @TheScienceFoundation

    "because the mutation occurred on a copy of a gene, no information would've been lost even if the mutation didn't confer a new trait."

    if you say my assertion of design is invalid than your assertion of duplication is invalid as well since it has not been demonstrated in the lab.

  • @jeffblue101 Yes, it has

    ncbi.nlm.nih(.)gov/pubmed/6585­807

    They were even able to map the brand new start and stop codons which make the new frame an entirely new gene unto itself.

  • @TheScienceFoundation

    ncbi.nlm.nih(.)gov/pubmed/6585­­807

    link seems to be dead

  • @jeffblue101 Search for ;

    Birth of a unique enzyme from an alternative reading frame of the preexisted, internally repetitious coding sequence.

  • @TheScienceFoundation

    regardless of the fact if there is a hypothetical "good" mutation. Evolution still could not work since the accumulation of bad mutations would cripple any organism.

  • @jeffblue101 Most mutations are neutral and mutations the negatively affect survivability and reproduction are selected against.

  • @TheScienceFoundation

    biggest category of mutations neutral(they are only neutral because we do not know yet the full functionality of the DNA)

    second biggest bad mutations

    smallest category "hypothetical good" mutations

    vast majority of all mutations are recessive. therefore the bad mutations can not be weeded out by natural selection.

    trueorigin(.)org/mutations01.a­sp summary in video below

    youtube(.)com/watch?v=Pvjsy_p6­eSs i highly recommend you watch this video skip to 3:00.

  • @jeffblue101 If a mutation is recessive then it's not expressed thus does not affect survivability. You also keep trying to ignore the fact that even if beneficial mutations are the lesser by a large margin initially, that they're selected for afterwards.

  • @TheScienceFoundation

    "If a mutation is recessive then it's not expressed thus does not affect survivability."

    correct, the same goes for bad, neutral, and "good" mutations.

    "that they're selected for afterwards"

    incorrect, the bad recessive mutations also accumulate at a faster than good mutations therefore any good mutations would get overwhelmed by bad mutations. cont...

  • @jeffblue101 Not sure what you think recessive means, if the bad mutations are recessive, as I pointed out they are not expressed meaning they're technically neutral.

  • @TheScienceFoundation

    "as I pointed out they are not expressed"

    i think you missed my point . most mutations must accumulate in a given population before they can be expressed since both parents must have that particular mutation to be expressed. known bad mutations can not be selected out and therefore are passed on in great numbers when compared to the good mutations. basically what we currently know about genetics shows that we are headed in downhill process not outward and upward.

  • @jeffblue101 I think you're misunderstanding gene expression. It's not a matter of a lot of mutations accruing as pseudogenes then becoming reactivated. Usually when a gene becomes a pseudogene and moves through a population it's off. Even if it's not then once it's expressed then it can still be selected against.

    There is no downhill because evolution is not directional.

  • @TheScienceFoundation

    remember both parents need to have the mutations present in their genome in order for most mutations to be expressed. so all good mutations would have to established within any given population before it could be expressed. the population would be greatly crippled by accumulation of bad mutations. since bad mutations greatly outnumber good mutations

  • @jeffblue101 Remember, ignoring/being ignorant of heterozygous dominant traits does not make them go away. Traits can be and are commonly passed on if the allele is carried by only one parent.

    Also, ignoring/remaining ignorant of the fact that negative mutations are weeded out and that natural selection still isn't chance any more now than it was the last 7 times I explained it still doesn't make it go away.

  • @TheScienceFoundation

    "negative mutations are weeded out and that natural selection" i agree with this statement but they are only weeded out if they are expressed. therefore they accumulate in a given population.

    "heterozygous dominant traits does not make them go away"

    please show me a positive example of a good mutation being autosomal dominant. Just one!!

  • @jeffblue101 And if they're not expressed then they're not negative, they're neutral.

    The fact that you recognize heterozygous traits as a whole can be passed on completely invalidates your argument.

  • Comment removed

  • @jeffblue101 I'm defining it exactly as gene expression functions. If a trait isn't expressed, it's neutral. Your/creation.com's remaining willfully ignorant of the fact that negative mutations are selected against still isn't an argument against evolution.

  • @TheScienceFoundation

    "And if they're not expressed then they're not negative, they're neutral." fine you can define any way you want. it still does not refute the fact that evolution is impossible since all populations of organism would have been bogged down by an overwhelming amount of negative mutations.

    creation(.)com/from-ape-to-man­-via-genetic-meltdown-a-theory­-in-crisis this article explains my argument in much clearer terms.

  • @jeffblue101 One bold lie stands out in that article

    "no one has ever claimed to have created brand new functions not already coded for on the genome in this manner."

    Haldane's dilemma refuted; talkorigins(.0org/indexcc/CB/C­B121.html

    Also, there's a reason Sanford published a book instead of articles, ignorance of processes that increase useful information and decrease genetic noise doesn't make for good science.

  • @TheScienceFoundation

    "Haldane's dilemma refuted; talkorigins(.0org/indexcc/CB/C­­B121.html"

    i checked up on this myself. there is not a single peer reviewed paper that has refuted haldane's dilemma. i wonder why? trust if they had the scientist would have received a noble prize for their work.

  • @jeffblue101 You didn't check very hard

    ncbi.nlm.nih(.)gov/pmc/article­s/PMC434284/?tool=pmcentrez&pa­geindex=1

    If the link isn't working it's 'Solutions to the Cost-of-Selection Dilemma'

    Funny though that now you're harping about peer reviewed papers.

  • @TheScienceFoundation

    The renowned evolutionary theorist, G.C. Williams (1992), wrote, "In my opinion the [Haldane's Dilemma] problem was never solved, by Wallace or anyone else

  • @jeffblue101 en.wikipedia(.)org/wiki/Argume­nt_from_authority

  • @TheScienceFoundation

    "en.wikipedia(.)org/wiki/Argum­e­nt_from_authority" no its an appeal to an evolutionist who admits that Haldane dilemma has never been solved by evolutionist. in fact the truth was suppressed when Remine brought it up again for discussion.

    refuting talkorgins saintpaulscience(.)com/Haldane­.htm not a long read.

  • @jeffblue101 No, you're quoting someone who is saying something you want to be true. The article I cited refutes the cost of selection problem for the same reasons explained on the TO page.

  • @TheScienceFoundation

    no it does not and Remine had his article peer reviewed article by two evolutionary geneticist proving it.

    saintpaulscience(.)com/Haldane­.htm

    TO blatantly misrepresents his work and he provides adequate proof of this.

  • @jeffblue101 Exactly, there's no peer reviewed article refuting the refutation of Haldane's dilemma, only the reassertion of 1,667 limit.

  • @TheScienceFoundation

    "refuting the refutation of Haldane's dilemma"

    lol i missed the first refuting. sigh, there is no solution to Haldane's dilemma. the paper you showed me was based on false information on the dilemma. Remine wrote his paper to clarify the issue of "solutions".

  • @TheScienceFoundation

    youtube.com/watch?v=i9ue1P50L4­8&feature=related (the first part deals with mutations not being truly random)

  • @jeffblue101 That video is just the same ignorance as what you continually spout as if not refuted regarding information.

  • @TheScienceFoundation

    "That video is just the same ignorance as what you continually spout as"

    what parts were showed ignorance. "if not refuted regarding information."

    answersingenesis(.)org/tj/v10/­i2/information.asp even talkorgins linked to this webpage

    wikipedia(.)org/wiki/Hubert_Yo­ckey an evloutionist who has written extensively about information theory.

    information is defined as containing a message. Wiki and dictionary(.)com both confirmed what information was.

  • @jeffblue101 Information as per information theory is defined as distinguishing characteristics of a system. This is why you're not getting anywhere, you completely ignore my explanations of real science as if I never gave them.

  • @jeffblue101 It's like reality said, if that bacteria develops the ability to metabolize a new food source, it will become predominant in a population where that food source is abundant.

  • @TheScienceFoundation

    creation.com

    "The researchers have not been able to ascertain any putative ancestral gene to the nylon-degrading genes. They represent a new gene family. This seems to rule out gene duplications as a source of the raw material for the new genes"

  • @jeffblue101

    >creation.com

    There's your problem, citing a website that has officially declared to outright reject any evidence that could ever be perceived as contradicting scripture.

    They're wrong in general in that respect, and they're wrong specifically in this instance.

  • @jeffblue101 From the actual article with actual science

    Analysis of the published base sequence residing in the pOAD2 plasmid of Flavobacterium Sp. K172 indicated that the 392-amino acid-residue-long bacterial enzyme 6-aminohexanoic acid linear oligomer hydrolase involved in degradation of nylon oligomers is specified by an alternative open reading frame of the preexisted coding sequence that originally specified a 472-residue-long arginine-rich protein.

  • Thanks for sharing!!

  • Birds sing. 

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