JESUS---The Name, The Blood, and the Power Pt 2

[littlebigronnie386]

@October31st1517 man can`t look at God without dying, but they can look at Jesus because he is the express image of God. here`s something to think about.. anyone who believes Jesus isnt God would essentially be saying that Jesus did something unrighteous. why did Jesus tell Satan "thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve"? then in many instances he allowed people to worship him. and the word worship is actually used.

[littlebigronnie386]

@October31st1517 Jesus did more than miracles and shed his blood. he also was an example of how we should live hence the name "Christian" or like Christ. many folks think they can slip us up by asking why Jesus prayed to himself, but like i said he did things for our example. the bible tells us that "no man hath seen God" then in one place says "the only begotten Son who is in the bosom of the father, he hath declared him" meaning that "he is the express image of his person"

[littlebigronnie386]

@October31st1517 just by simply trying to separate Jesus from God is demeaning to him. how can u truly believe that God who has ALL power both in heaven and in earth cannot also be Jesus? don`t u believe he`s powerful enough to be a God and man?

[littlebigronnie386]

@October31st1517 now don`t get me wrong, i`m not saying people should let themselves get carried away by every wind of doctrine. they just need to keep an open mind and pray to God that if there is anything they believe that is wrong that God would show and correct them.

[littlebigronnie386]

@October31st1517 I know you don`t want to hear this , but duane is right on all points here. What many people seem to do when debating bible is they don`t keep an open mind and think "i am human and it`s VERY possible that i am mistaken in my beliefs" they keep their minds closed and don`t even try to study scripture and pray about the other person`s point of view. i have been corrected alot and always try to keep an open mind, and i hope that u will do the same.

[October31st1517]

It doesn"t matter wheather your message is populat or not. If you have the wrong Jesus it"s a false gospel. Jesus is the eternal Son of God. (Heb 1)

[EvDuaneWilliams]

@October31st1517

According to Jesus, if your message is popular, you should beware. According to you, it doesn't matter. I'll stick with Jesus. Show me where the Bible uses the term "eternal son", because it's not in Hebrews 1, or any of Hebrews, or any of the New Testament, or any of the Old Testament, like so much of your doctrine. It comes from some council of unregenerate men who make up theological terms and concepts from whole cloth with total disregard for Scripture. Sola Scriptura!

[October31st1517]

@EvDuaneWilliams God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; Heb 1:1-2

Question: Who created the worlds?

Secondly, where is it a princepal of bible study that in order for doctrine to be biblical, the exact phrase must be used in the bible?

[EvDuaneWilliams]

@October31st1517

Answer: God created the worlds, through His Word (Remember "let there be light"?) And that same Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us(and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only BEGOTTEN of the Father) full of grace and truth.

We are not permitted to add or subtract terminology to or from God's Word. That is a Biblical principle. If the "eternal son" doctrine is as essential as you claim, the phrase should show up at least once in Scripture.

[October31st1517]

@EvDuaneWilliams Let me ask you if you believe God is omnipresent & Omniscient?

[EvDuaneWilliams]

@October31st1517

Yes God is Omnipresent. Now how can a being who is infinite in size and in all physical locations have a right hand side for His Son to sit at? You might want to rethink what the "Right Hand" Scriptures are talking about. God is Omniscient. He is also timeless, which presents a problem for Calvinists. Why would a God unrestrained by the concept of time have to "look down through time", stuck in time at the moment of Creation, to choose who He wants to save?

[EvDuaneWilliams]

@October31st1517

Father=Deity

Son=Humanity

JESUS=BOTH

[October31st1517]

@EvDuaneWilliams You didn't answer my question. Is God omnipresent & Omniscient?

[EvDuaneWilliams]

@October31st1517 Mr. Grand Inquisitor , yes, I did answer your question. Since you apparently don't read my responses, I'll repeat my response to your question with the only parts you will care to read CAPITALIZED.

[EvDuaneWilliams]

@October31st1517 YES GOD IS OMNIPRESENT.  Now how can a being who is infinite in size and in all physical locations have a right hand side for His Son to sit at? You might want to rethink what the "Right Hand" Scriptures are talking about. GOD IS OMNISCIENT. He is also timeless, which presents a problem for Calvinists. Why would a God unrestrained by the concept of time have to "look down through time", stuck in time at the moment of Creation, to choose who He wants to save?

[October31st1517]

@EvDuaneWilliams Let's not get off into other subjects. I promise, we can deal with them later. I am in agreement with you that God has these characterisics. However, you stated "We are not permitted to add or subtract TERMINOLOGY to or from God's Word. That is a Biblical principle." Can you please show me the words OMNIPRESENT or OMNISCIENT in the bible?

[EvDuaneWilliams]

@October31st1517 Got me! Not really. No one's salvation rises or falls according to whether they describe God with these NONbiblical terms, neither have I said they are worshipping a "false Jesus" or preaching a "false gospel" if they choose not to describe God in this way. Omniscient and Omnipresent are two NONbiblical terms that describe Biblical doctrines about the Nature of God. "Eternal Son" is an UNbiblical term describing a doctrine that the Bible CONTRADICTS. Big difference.

[EvDuaneWilliams]

@October31st1517 In all the chances the Biblical writers had to describe the Son as "eternal" they did so exactly 0 times. However, the Son is described as "Begotten" 12 times throughout Scripture.  I know, the next step is another UNbiblical term, "Eternally Begotten". Heb_1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, THIS DAY have I begotten thee?(what DAY was that?) And again, I WILL BE to him a Father, and he SHALL BE to me a Son?(WILL BE, not HAVE ALWAYS BEEN)

[October31st1517]

@EvDuaneWilliams Again, you stated "We are not permitted to add or subtract TERMINOLOGY to or from God's Word. That is a Biblical principle." Can you please show me the words OMNIPRESENT or OMNISCIENT in the bible? Or can we use Non-biblical terms to describe a biblical idea? You're running from this. Let's get this settles so we can go on further with the eternal Son debate.

[EvDuaneWilliams]

@October31st1517 Mark, you would be such a warrior of the Cross if you would allow God to open your eyes to the Truth. It's kind of unfair to debate you because I have the Truth of Scripture on my side, which you lack. As good and tenacious as you are at defending false, manmade pagan doctrines, I expect you would be next to invincible were you to ever embrace the Truth, a destiny for which I've prayed for you time and time again. Accept that JESUS alone is God, and there is none else.Isa45:5

[October31st1517]

@EvDuaneWilliams Duane, thank you for the kind words and I want to believe your sincere, But you still have not answered my question. Again, you stated "We are not permitted to add or subtract TERMINOLOGY to or from God's Word. That is a Biblical principle." Can you please show me the words OMNIPRESENT or OMNISCIENT in the bible? Or can we use Non-biblical terms to describe a biblical idea? You're running from this. Let's get this settles so we can go on further with the eternal Son debate.

[EvDuaneWilliams]

@October31st1517 Mark, I read every word of your posts. Please give me the courtesy of doing the same. So once again, I must repeat a post and CAPITALIZE the only parts you will read.

[EvDuaneWilliams]

@October31st1517 Got me! Not really. No one's salvation rises or falls according to whether they describe God with these NONbiblical terms, neither have I said they are worshipping a "false Jesus" or preaching a "false gospel" if they choose not to describe God in this way. OMNISCIENT AND OMNIPRESENT ARE TWO NONBIBLICAL TERMS THAT DESCRIBE BIBLICAL DOCTRINES ABOUT THE NATURE OF GOD "ETERNAL SON" IS AN UNBIBLICAL TERM DESCRIBING A DOCTRINE THAT THE BIBLE CONTRADICTS. BIG DIFFERENCE.

[EvDuaneWilliams]

@October31st1517

Omnipresent, Omniscient = NON-Biblical, but accurate

Eternal Son = UN-Biblical, and contradictory to Scripture

[October31st1517]

@EvDuaneWilliams Thank you. Now, listen to the words of Jesus whom you claim is your God “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and WE will come to him and make OURr home with him." John 14:23

Who is the WE and the OUR in this scripture?

[EvDuaneWilliams]

@October31st1517 The Father(The Eternal Spirit) and the Son(the glorified man in whom the Father dwells)

I've answered all of your questions, now answer one of mine. Heb 1:5 "Thou art my Son, this DAY have I begotten thee." What DAY was this referring to? Keep in mind that DAYS were created on the first day of Creation(Gen 1:5) and before that, there were no days or nights. On what DAY was the Son begotten?

[October31st1517]

@EvDuaneWilliams This was a conversation that happened in eternity past. " Keep in mind that DAYS were created on the first day of Creation" That is an ASSUMPTION. You're taking your view of the word DAY and coing to an incorrect conclusion. The context goes against your theology. "God,... has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds."

Question: Who made the worlds?

[EvDuaneWilliams]

@October31st1517 OK, so on a DAY in eternity past, the Son was begotten, but what about before that DAY?

Genesis clearly shows that days were created along with the rest of the universe, but go ahead and duck and dodge.

GOD MADE THE WORLDS THROUGH HIS WORD, BY SPEAKING IT INTO EXISTENCE. THAT SAME WORD WAS MADE FLESH AND DWELT AMONG US AS THE SON OF GOD.

My turn. When Philip saw Jesus, he saw the Father(John 14:9). WHO DO YOU SEE?