How to Be Vegan : Nutritional Myths About Vegan Lifestyles

[SolumDementia]

I need to know if regular table salt is vegan!

[gypsyqueenmaya]

@SolumDementia lol wtf? is that a joke?

[SolumDementia]

@gypsyqueenmaya No, my friend told me that their is an anti clumping angent that isn't vegan. But it really is Vegan.

[SexySabrinaaa]

@SolumDementia LOL

[susandan110]

people who put other peoples lifestyle choices down are usually jealous cause their lifestyle is lacking.....so they need go get a life basically! So sad!

[MrGreglaw]

MEAT MEAT MEAT MEAT I LOVE IT! VEG VEG VEG VEG IS UN-COOL!

[japxican91]

@MrGreglaw

You = Douchebag Troll

[gypsyqueenmaya]

@MrGreglaw how immature. and barbaric.

[NzDuckShooter]

@hugaveggie You failed to realize that you pointed out one of my hobbies, then told me to get a hobby. well done. I also find this quite amusing, so keep up the good work.

[fjbutch]

Probably got LEATHER SHOES, uses egg shampoo, maybe sits on a leather couch, microwave protective screen might be made from milk solid products, gee,, she might have to live in a tent now....

[caitohlenn]

It's kind of funny that so many people want to put down other people's lifestyle choices. If someone doesn't want to eat meat because of the corruption, cruelty, and environmental damage done by factory farming, then so be it! People just love their bacon and burgers so much that they stick their heads in the sand. Sure, meat looks harmless in your kitchen, but everyone would lean a little more towards a vegan diet if they had to slaughter an intelligent animal themselves.

[NzDuckShooter]

@hugaveggie Also why would someone so concerned with animal cruelty etc want to replicate something that comes from a dead animal. start your own trends.

[NzDuckShooter]

@hugaveggie Great, I wonder where that was made? I wonder how much habitat was cleared for the "pleather" factories, nice one 'a-hole'

[NzDuckShooter]

Is that a fucking leather couch you are sitting on?

[MarcusNorberg]

@PrincessChronicles

And that vegans look malnourished is another myth/fallacy, I've met literally hundreds of vegans and only found two who looked malnourished (one being obese, and the other anorexic). On the other hand, tons of people on a standard diet look malnourished (being either overweight or really skinny), whereas the people that don't show other signs of it (such as a lack of mental and physical energy, problems focusing, having to sleep all the day, drink coffe etc).

[DemonicSymphonic]

why is her face so fat, she probably eats babies

[Nicoleiia]

I take hydrilla...its an aquatic plant that naturally has B12 somehow...

[xCosima]

I am working on becoming vegan, but I agree with Treblaine in that I don't for a second think that veganism is natural, because of the B12 issue.

What I do think is that if you have the money and means to do it, veganism is, in our current society, the most moral choice one can make in regards to diet. We can be healthy and survive without out animal products, so if you have the means to do it, then you should...or at least compensate by doing something else super environmentally-friendly!

[finkplamingoes]

About the B12 thing - B12 is found in the bacteria inside animals' stomachs. It also used to be found in soil, and consequently could be obtained thru vegetables and fruits, but now that farming processes have introduced so many nasty, UNnatural chemicals to our earth, the B12 once found in soil has been depleted.

[Treblaine]

But the point is no B12 is found in vegetables... none.

Because the plants do not actively absorb it, and the amount and type of bacteria in the soil mean there is virtually no B12 to find in the soil anyway.

[finkplamingoes]

errr...do you have a source for this info?

[Treblaine]

A source for what?

[Treblaine]

Thank you, people can live off a diet of bark and tea leaves for all I care but I don't like all meat eaters being cast as unnatural degenerates.

[yunta51]

Why is dhe soooo fat? I think her body has to eat more causae she ain't getting enough nutrients.

[tony543111]

see frances is just one more insane loser crying on youtube

[freakycrazycatlady]

just eat nutritional yeast in soups and pasta dishes! :D

it tastes yummy, and that way you don't have to take any vitamins or supplements.

[Treblaine]

Yeast does NOT naturally produce Vitamin B12, only the bacteria like that which live in the guts of animals like cows and chickens.

Animals are the only natural source of B12.

A vegan diet is an unnatural and artificial diet.

[francescadanielle88]

A meat diet is a cruel and hypocritical one. Would you eat your pets? Why not? They're animals too, in fact humans are made of meat too. Why is it so difficult to say I can live on a diet that doesn't involve death so I will? The point is, people who turn vegetarian for moral reasons show a caring for those around them on this planet regardless of species or whether they know them. Thus they are likely to treat everyone else kindly, making the world a nicer place. It's called empathy and sense.

[Treblaine]

Meat is not cruel, the animals are killed humanely. It is in our nature as human beings and you have no right to tell them it is immoral to do that any more than to say birds should not fly.

If I had a pet I'd eat it if I was hungry enough (like in a disaster) but they apparently taste horrible and they are better as companions for guarding, play and sniffing out explosives etc. But I prefer the taste of beef/chicken plus cows don't know how to play fetch.

[francescadanielle88]

Have you seen footage of the meat industry or know anything about slaughterhouses?

Animals weren't put on earth to be pets or food, I expect you'd argue with a species higher than us if they wanted to keep you as a 'fetch' pet or eat you. If you like your pet, yet you'd eat it just because of a bad situation, it shows how fickle your morals are, and that you'd probably eat a person, or do anything bad just for your own survival. Why are you so important? Why should things have to die for you?

[Treblaine]

I've actually seen animals slaughtered, it is harrowing yet fascinating at the same time.

Animals weren't "put on this earth" by or for anything, they simply are here and humans have always exploited them, though I believe it is something uniquely human to care for livestock and instinctively prefer humane treatment even though one eventually kills it for food.

"Why should things have to die for you?"

For the same reason the bear eats fish, it wants it and it can. This is a childish question.

[francescadanielle88]

But if we're not animals and so advanced as you seem to agree, we should have the thought and moral judgement not to act like animals, and learn from past mistakes, especially in these days where it's more and more easy to go vegetarian. You're the one with childish reasoning saying if wild animals do it because they want to and can, then that makes it ok for you to do the same, yet hypocritically see yourself above them. And when was the last time you hunted for yourself like a bear?

[Treblaine]

We are advanced because we can rear animals efficiently on such large scale yet still kill them humanely with as little stress and fear as possible. We are the masters of this planet, 99% of people want to eat meat.

Are you really so naive to think you can only eat meat if you hunt it? We have this little thing called an ECONOMY! That means each person specialises in doing one thing really well for money and use that money to buy meat that professionals have reared, slaughtered and butchered.

[Treblaine]

"Why is it so difficult to say I can live on a diet that doesn't involve death so I will?"

Because it is a LIE!

Have you any idea how many pest animals are deliberately killed by farmers each year, for just a single acre of crops? Every week farmer fill sack loads with dead rabbits, birds, mice, rats and other adorable animals.

You're not even reducing death, as one cow gives 4 years worth of beef, though pest animals are smaller in size there are more deaths per lbs of veg than lbs of meat.

[francescadanielle88]

Yeah, that's why I eat organic, doofus.

[Treblaine]

Organic kills just as many animals, I mean how else do you stop pest animals eating crops? Ask the vermin nicely?

They may not use chemicals but they use traps, guns, and trained animals as well as extensive extermination programmes. For example a lovely organic farmer will track down a rabbit burrow and systematically kill every single rabbit he can find, no chemicals though.

Then he will wipe the blood off his hands and sell his grain to vegan stores blissful at your ignorance.

[francescadanielle88]

Listen, that's not quite how it is, not where I'm from anyway, but even if it were, I'm still not contributing to anything half as bad as you are everytime you pay for a piece of corpse, and I'm not dining on death.

[Treblaine]

If any organic farmer tell you they don't kill any pest animals then they are liars or are about to go bankrupt.

There is no way in hell you can grow crops on large enough and intensive enough scale without fighting a constant war of extermination with every animal of the eco-system that wants a bite of the tasty refined corn, soya or wheat.

Did I not explain? one cow death is about 1000 portions of beef, but there are about 10x as many deaths per portion of veg.

[francescadanielle88]

Listen dude, I see what you're saying, but why go on such a tangent when it's so simple, I wish not to dine on corpse. I don't want to be a living graveyard and believe that those who choose not to eat other beings treat those around them better. And it's healthier not to eat rotting flesh. Maybe it's impossible to never harm any little thing, but I care and will do what I can, you don't make yourself any more righteous or good by attempting to bring me down.

[Treblaine]

Now THAT is what I have been trying to get out of you:

"I wish not to dine on corpse"

You are simply squeamish. You don't have the guts to eat meat even though 99% of people eat meat, even after seeing slaughterhouses.

You have no moral high ground it is ONLY a personal choice. I just don't like you recruiting people to become vegan for bogus reasons like health, naturalness or cruelty-free.

It is merely a personal choice on taste... not a moral decision.

[francescadanielle88]

No, I used to eat meat. I'm not squeamish. I just don't agree with killing to get my food.

[Treblaine]

But you're vegan?

Why abstain from milk, eggs and even honey (as I most vegans do). No more animals are directly killed for those than for the pest control of a soya plantation.

I also think you always knew animals were killed for meat, you just discovered one day what it looked like, it was what it LOOKED like that turned you away. Not simply the fact that the animals died, a toddler can figure that out, you just can't stand the icky details.

The moral point it irrelevant to you.

[francescadanielle88]

My god, you don't even know me. You're very opinionated about things you don't know and that includes me. A slaughterhouse video was not the thing that put me off meat, although I think it's enough to put someone off meat, I had often thought about it since I was little and wanted to become a vegetarian, My pets meant a lot to me and I always thought I was hypercritical, eating things that I really didn't need to. One day I made the connection and changed, for the better.

[missypoopoo33]

Save a cow, eat a vegan!!

[TSM9356]

i get it from maramite and soya milk

[Treblaine]

The point is humans and all its recent primate ancestors have been entirely dependant on consuming animals and animal by-products to survive.

B12 is a prime example. Another is how we cannot digest cellulose but can digest completely all animal protein.

Saying it is possible for humans to live vegan IF you follow and incredibly rigorous diet and IF you take artificial supplements then those are two very big "ifs".

The diet is down right dangerous as it is too hard follow it safely.

[francescadanielle88]

"we cannot digest cellulose but can digest completely all animal protein." Do some proper research bub. What do you think the appendix was for once upon a time? We used to have all the enzymes needed to digest all types of plant fibre but we lost them due to the cooking process. Oh, wait, ironic that it's the cooking process which allows you to eat meat safely. Which one do you think is natural?

[tony543111]

look its the insane loser frances go back under your rock

[Treblaine]

Leave frances alone, she is confused and needs some educatin' about the real world but her heart is in the right place.

[tony543111]

frances keeps bugging me she has some serious mental problems

[Treblaine]

Well... I can hardly argue with that.

She can't emotionally separate pets from farm animals, I mean, well, what can I say which everyone isn't already thinking?

[tony543111]

LOL

[Treblaine]

Who cares what the appendix was for millions of years ago, the point is humans RIGHT NOW cannot digest cellulose AT ALL.

We used to used to walk on our knuckles, should we now walk on all fours just to be "more natural"?

The only function of the appendix seems to be a kind of "safe haven" from symbiotic bacteria in case we ever get diarrhoea, our gut is repopulated from there.

"Which one do you think is natural?"

Why to eat cooked meat/veg of course because that's what humans are EVOLVED for.

[francescadanielle88]

Well you should still have enough morals to not kill for food in this day and age if you think you're so advanced. Saying we evolved to eat cooked meat is is incorrect, you do it for taste, it's unhealthy and unnecessary and cruel, and you may as well say you evolved to rape just because it makes you feel good. That's how just your argument is.

[Treblaine]

It is the height of arrogance to assume you set the universal moral standard that all killing is wrong. I like most people on this planet earth find it acceptable to consume animal products. Even Hindus and Buddhists permit dairy.

YOU HAVE NOT RIGHT TO FORCE YOUR BELIEFS ON OTHERS!

I believe you CAN be vegan, but can't say everyone else is as immoral as rapists if they eat meat. You certainly cannot spread falsehoods that it is in any way inherently natural or healthier.

[francescadanielle88]

I can say it is healthier actually, as I am backed up by the world health organization, american dietetic association, physicians committee for responsible medicine and the british medical association. You would fight against people if they were murdering other people around you. The difference is I am not speciesist, so actually I do have the right, yes.

[Treblaine]

Speciesist?

That isn't even a word.

How about you are in favour of this certain species called humans, ever heard of them? They eat meat, yet you are calling them murderers and abominations of nature. Would the same apply to a bear? Badger? What about other omnivores? Gonna restrict their diet.

All these sources simply said it was possible, not endorsing it. More recently UK's Department of Health (highest authority on this) said veganism is no healthier than a balanced meat-inclusive diet.

[francescadanielle88]

Speciesist, one who is guilty of Speciesism, look it up. It's a genuine word! But I'm not surprised you've never heard of it..

Vegetarianism has been proven healthier over and over. Humans aren't animals, otherwise you would eat humans too, so why argue that you should do as they do? That's regardless that it's debatable humans are even omnivores rather than vegetarian naturally as we can digest meat, but not optimally, it creates disease. Humans also have advanced thought for a reason...

[Treblaine]

Well the highest health authority of my country (your country too) have NOT found vegan/vegetarianisms to be healthier, and you can't just quote a load of half baked speculations when definitive conclusions have shown no difference.

We don't eat humans because that is both cannibalism and murder. Idiot.

It is a scientific fact that humans are omnivores. Trying to say there is debate about meat consumption is like creationists saying there is debate about theory of evolution. THERE ISN'T!

[francescadanielle88]

Actually the British Medical Association have deemed vegetarianism healthier. What do you not get about my previous response? Why are you so opposed to not killing unnecessarily for food. Hey idiot, you're still killing when you eat an animal. It's speciesist murder. If you have so little morals why not cannibalize? Some people do, and it's only meat eaters that do. It is not fact that we are omnivores! It's theory which many people don't believe.

[Treblaine]

I have read what BMA said, it said Vegan diet is ONLY healthy if properly balanced and supplemented, and there was nothing inherent about going free of animal products that made it healthier.

I mean a diet where you can eat as many doughnuts and deep fried chips as you like is NOT inherently healthy.

Enough with this equating meat with cannibalism, it holds no water. We have to look out for our own species or we would not even exist. It is out nature.

[francescadanielle88]

Look, do what you think is right in your opinion, I'll do what I think is right in mine. All I'll say is that you reap what you sow.

[Treblaine]

Agreed. You respect my right to eat meat, and I'll respect yours to go meat-free.

In the end the choice to eat meat or go vegan is not down to facts or moral absolutes but merely personal opinion.

I just just hope you will repeat that considerate and tolerant attitude with other people. You'll win no one over telling them that they are as immoral as murderous cannibalistic rapists.

[AJBeetle1]

how can you accuse others of arrogance when you claim that nothing you believe is even debateable, but fact? Topics such as evolution, and whether or not eating meat is natural are areas in which many people have many different views. You have attacked everyone on this page who disagrees with anything you think. That pretty much sums up an arrogant person.

[Treblaine]

Evolution? Different "points of view"?

You're not another bloody creationists are you? There are no more "personal opinion" on Evolution that there is "personal opinion" on whether the sun or the earth is in the centre of our solar system!

Evolution is a FACT! Just like the dangers of a vegan diet is a FACT!

I'm not arrogant, I'm angry at all the ignorance and pseudo-science used to justify their fanciful world views.

[AJBeetle1]

no, I'm not a creationist, or even a christian, but considering that christianity is so widely believed by millions of people, it is silly to assume that many of them believe in evolution. you are clearly more arrogant and dogmatic than any vegan I have ever met.

[Treblaine]

Just because millions of people believe in something... doesn't make it right and it certainly doesn't make it true!

It is not arrogant to follow the facts.

It is arrogant to think the mob who yells the most is correct.

[HengistTheGreat]

If you feel evolution is a fact, how come you think 10,000 years is a big deal? Not many physical changes to man have happened in that time!

[Treblaine]

Evolution is a fact but you are also making a LOT of assumptions about evolution and a 10'000 year timescale.

That is not enough time for our species to speciate (that means evolve enough so that we can no longer interbreed. Humans are all one species, an Asian can have perfectly viable children with an African) but we have still made many evolutionary adaptations in that time including Lactose tolerance throughout adulthood.

But we haven't evolved to synthesise vit B12.

[HengistTheGreat]

Treblaine, you're the one claiming 10,000 years is a significant amount of time! See your own posts below.

[Treblaine]

Well 10k years is significant enough time for minor adaptations like lactose tolerance, all mammals produce the enzyme (lactASE) to digest milk in infancy so they can drink their mother's milk.

It is a minor adaptation for humans to continue to produce Lactase through adulthood so that agriculture can harvest milk from cows or similar large agricultural mammals for consumption.

You are being incredibly simplistic and dogmatic about the subtleties of evolution.

[HengistTheGreat]

"You are being incredibly simplistic and dogmatic about the subtleties of evolution."

How? You talk quite a lot about lactase and assumptions I've made, for reasons best known to yourself. I sometimes think you have me confused with another poster, possibly yourself! If you wish to talk more about it, personal mail me.

[Discordia5]

lol speciesm is a word, read a philosophy book, it's usually covered under the first chapter in the first philosophy class people take when they cover utilitarianism.

[Treblaine]

Specieism may be a word, but is is certainly stupid, as stupid as Thanatophobia (fear of dying) as every human, and almost every living organism is RIGHTLY afraid of dying, just like every single species looks out for their own species first.

And you can't just say "I studied Philosophy, therefore my OPINION is correct". If you can't justify it in 500 characters then it is hardly much of an idea.

Give me a reason why I should value some beast over my fellow man?

[francescadanielle88]

You are incorrect. "recent primate ancestors have been entirely dependant on consuming animals and animal by-products to survive." No, meat was only ever a rare, often scavenged addition to a primarily plant based diet. My example of past plant digestion over meat digestion shows what we were naturally built to eat. That's why it's genuinely hysterical that you have to cook your steak to eat it safely or make it appetizing even, unlike any other natural meat eating animal.

[Treblaine]

When I said "dependant on animal products" I mean they have no way of getting B-12 into their body other than eating animals. For millions of years our humans ancestors have had to kill and eat other animals, even if it is only insects or else they'd die.

Also millions of years ago we lost the ability to digest cellulouse, being able to only digest fruit, certain parts of plans and, but mainly adapted to meat.

BTW, both meat and veg are edible raw but it's OK to cook veg?

[francescadanielle88]

Well take an apple off a tree and you can eat it right then and there, same with any veg or fruit. Meat on the other hand, you couldn't hunt yourself if your life depended on it. Naturally, you'd be at the bottom of the food chain. You would never ever bite straight into the flesh of a warm, bloody carcass intact with skin and fur.

[Treblaine]

How many apple trees do you just see in your area? Even if you did you would have to find it at just the right time of year. Plus you WILL die living on fruit alone, just wiki: Fruitarianism.

But I see rabbits, squirrels, birds and other animals all the time... and I'm a pretty good shot with my air rifle :D

However I have no idea how to start growing crops. My granddad's generation when food was irregular, he'd go out with his shotgun to hunt, not a basket to pick apples.

[PinkFairy1961]

I am with you Discordia - her face is lovely, her hair amazing !!!!

[tippo747]

....vegetarian is a trick.....?being vegetarian .....is still bad.....carrots ,and heaps of vegetables, are murdered........and the plant is killed..

but with fruit the plant stay's alive................."fruit..­..is tree's and humans being freinds".........

.."fruitetarian"...........rem­ember in heaven they all eat only fruit.....

[fretbuzz520y]

Heaven is a myth. Google it.

[Discordia5]

I like that she looks so healthy. I'm sick of people who act like all vegans are pale, underweight, and half bald.

[Treblaine]

Hmm, like Moby? Life long vegan.

[cabwhisperer]

thank you for all your videos, but plz someone send me a TOTAL VEGAN recipe for pineapple upside down cake....PLZ!

[Lornaisjinxed]

In Britain, and most of Europe, vegans also need to take daily iodine supplements.

The recent ice-age means that soil quality here doesn't produce iodine-rich fruit and vegetables.

Salt in America and Canada is iodised, unlike salt in the UK and most of Europe.

See the Vegan Society website for further information. Iodine has it's own page - just follow the Nutrition link.

[mrnathanieltaylor]

Ha! I take B12 vitamins made especially for vegetarians.

[Treblaine]

Pills... just to stay alive?

Yeah, vegan diet is SOOOO natural.

[francescadanielle88]

Many meat eaters take pills too. They're called multi vitamins. Not all vegans take pills. I don't, and it's proven healthier by many international health organisations.

[Treblaine]

I know, but meat eaters don't HAVE to take pills to stay alive and multivitamins have been proven to be a waste of money if you eat a normal diet that is varied and balanced. That means it includes at least some animal products.

You may not take pills but you MUST take artificial B-12 supplements or you WILL die. It's just a matter of time.

[francescadanielle88]

Well no because pretty much all soy products are fortified with the vitamin nowadays, it's a tiny amount that's needed. Who has ever died of this?? It's in dairy, but for vegans, even if we needed to take a supplement, which isn't the case because the rda is in a glass of soya milk, but that's a really crappy point to try to say somehow that counteracts all the good the vegan diet does, I mean 1 little vitamin? That's your problem about not eating corpses?

[Treblaine]

B12 deficiency leads to permanent brain damage, it is barely noticeable at first but rapidly deteriorates by the time it's spotted it's too late an they can be left crippled for life or more often... death.

There are quite a lot of cases, usually in countries stricken by famine but also in the west and the main sufferers are militant vegetarians who continually ignore health advice.

B12 is more of a proof that veganism is an unnatural diet as humans can ONLY get it from eating animal products.

[freakycrazycatlady]

I don't take ANY pills, I went to the doctor to get my blood levels tested, and all of my vitamin levels were perfect. If we're here, we're obviously not dead or dying.

People like my cousin take medication so they don't die from terminal diseases. Do you hate them too? Just leave us alone, and bombard some other page with your ignorance and judgement.

[Treblaine]

It's a fact you NEED B12 (+ other vitamins) that we can only naturally get from animal products.

That's fine for vegetarians who eat eggs/milk but vegan means you're dependant on artificially fortified food/pills.

I'm merely defending my right to eat meat as this video and many others call meat consumption unnatural. IMHO, it isn't natural to need artificial supplements to survive.

Your cousin also didn't choose disease. I have a problem with CHOOSING a diet that needs pills like diabetes.

[Discordia5]

Treblaine, most vegans aren't stupid enough to be so militant as to let themselves die of vitamin deficiencies. Many vegetarians and vegans choose to eat as little animal products as good reason allows. This works, because many essential vitamins (such as your precious B12, as well as iron) have a special balancing act going on in your body naturally. (You absorb lots when you're low, you don't absorb any when your diet is plentiful.) Bodies regulate themselves when you have a varied diet.

[Treblaine]

I'm sorry but all the vegans I have ever heard of are *pretty militant* with ridiculously dogmatic rules, they won't even eat honey! They also can't resist having a go at me with some snide comment any time I dare to eat meat.

B12 is merely PROOF that Veganism is an UNnatural diet as it is both vital to survival and the ONLY NATURAL source is consuming other animals (or their milk/eggs).

I support Veganism as a personal choice but it is dishonest to call it natural nor fundamentally healthier.

[AJBeetle1]

actaully many of the nutrients obtained from meat are added artificially to the animal's food. So the animal takes the supplement instead of you- that doesn't sound much better to me.

[Treblaine]

I don't know where you buy your meat but what is artificial about grass and hay which is what most livestock in Europe are fed? Or at least the meat that I eat.

It is UTTERLY POINTLESS to feed farm animals B12 or other vitamins, when their own bodies can produce it.

Only cheap low quality meat is reared on chemical feed. Any idea how much pesticides have to be put on fruit compared to livestock feed?

[Discordia5]

Treblaine: I sense your argument has a lot of emotion invested in it...Do you REALLY know of ANY vegetarians/vegans who have had serious health consequences, or are you playing assumption games? From what I've read it would take, like 20 years to get nerve damage from lack of vitamin B12... Is the diet any worse than a fast food or cheeseburger diet? Those people become obese and they're still malnourished, lacking TONS more stuff than vegans I'm sure.

[Treblaine]

The biggest trick of Vegans is to compare a meticulously controlled and balanced Vegan diet (that tries as hard as possible to balance every nutrient) with a meat diet with absolutely no regard to healthy eating such as living on ONLY fast food.

I've already pointed out that what makes fast food diets unhealthy is not the meat part but the veg: deep fried chips, sugary drink, etc

20 years for nerve damage? Not only is that bullshit but don't you want to live for longer than 20 years!?!!

[HengistTheGreat]

I don't have the characters to refute all your fallacies here Treblaine, but I can cite one genuine example of a man (who is in his eighties, yet still works as a nutrition lecturer in the USA) who has a house near me. He says he has never bothered with B12 supplements. He looks healthy. He's been vegan for fifty years now. Dr David Ryde MB,BS, FRCGP. Please Google him.

[Treblaine]

What he or you likely don't realise is although he may not take pills he likely gets B12 from artificially fortified sources like many cereals and most soya-milk has been artificially fortified with B12 for years precisely because of all this.

Likely eating vegan food it would be impossible to avoid artificial B12 fortification as scientists have stepped in as they realised how many are taking such flippant risks with their nutrition.

Veganism remains an unnatural diet.

[HengistTheGreat]

Please define "natural", in your (seemingly narrow) opinion.

[Treblaine]

I can't be bothered. I don't really care that much about veganism or the definition of "natural".

Just realise veganism is only possible thanks to the scientific advances made in synthesising and purifying key vitamins that were previously only available from animal products, and how many cereals and other food are now fortified with these vitamins.

[AJBeetle1]

I know, I always find it funny when other people comment on how lacking in nutrients a vegan diet is. An old friend of my mother's is 92, and has never eaten any animal products in her entire life, nor does she take supplements. She has no friends her own age anymore... so why is she not dead? She doesn't even need a walking stick, unlike many omnivores even in their sixties. Some people just think they know it all, so I wouldn't even bother arguing with them. Just laugh to yourself...

[Treblaine]

Wow, a person you don't even know 1st hand has apparently been a vegan for 27 years longer than the word vegan even existed?

Never ate ANY animal products in almost 100 years? Well there is *NOOO* chance that 2nd hand info is exaggerated nonsense!

I know smokers who've lived to their 90s, does that make smoking healthy?

One explanation is her diet is so bland she eats very little as scientifically the biggest increase in longevity is achieved by restricting calorie intake to lower metabolism.

[AJBeetle1]

yes, when she was born the word vegan didn't even exist, she and her father just saw it as a natural diet. There are many people who chose to eat no animal products, including famous philosophers, and that was a long time before the word 'vegetarian' came about. I actually do know her very well, and I think it's sad that you're so against the idea of someone being healthy by leading a different lifestyle to you. I'm happy being vegan, and I didn't ask your opinion, so stop being so judgemental

[Treblaine]

Tell me, what is so healthy about nerve damage?

It's scientifically impossible for anyone to live more than a decade without B12 which can ONLY be obtained from animal sources (including milk, eggs, etc) or artificial supplements which weren't readily available till she'd have been in her 50's.

Gandhi tried veganism & almost died from it, he eventually faced up to reality and would occasionally drink cow's milk.

Nothing would be gained from scrutinising the veracity of your aged friend's diet

[AJBeetle1]

also that comment was a reply to someone else, not you, so maybe you need to calm down a bit. Her diet is pretty normal to be honest, lots of fruit and veg, grains etc. I got her try a cheese free pizza on her birthday a few years ago, which was funny, because she never seems to eat anything like that! I'm sure she'd be happy to talk to you about her diet if you're so upset by it, she's really nice. Let me know

[Treblaine]

Maybe you can have a chat with MY grandmother who has been smoking since she was 16 and is now well into her 80's, perhaps she can extol the virtues of smoking? NOT! Isolated cases prove nothing, especially if unverified.

I'm going to go with Science on this one, not anecdotal evidence. The importance of vitamins and their sources are as well known as the dangers of smoking.

I'm sorry if I disrespect a friend of your family but you brought her into this.

[AJBeetle1]

I think you have been quite rude about her to be honest, which is a shame. I was merely making a joke to someone else about how everyone goes about how unhealthy vegans are, and yet they still seem to live a really long time. I am a great believer in science, and have done copius amounts of research on the subject, and I imagine most vegans do too, and probably know a lot more about it than you. Like I said, you shouldn't be so judgemental, and it is sad that your whole attitude is so agressive

[Treblaine]

Well I think you are quite cheap, bringing a nice old lady into this conversation, it's like grabbing a human shield.

How about you leave her out of this OK? Then we can do this Dragnet style: Just the Facts, ma'am

You say you are a believer in science yet in the same breath you say people shouldn't be judgemental!! Do you not see the hypocrisy in your comment?!??

[Discordia5]

This old lady-vegan: there were vegetarians around for hundreds if not thousands of years before someone labeled it. Don't put so much power in words and science, they are quite stifling from a philosophical perspective. For some people it's not about what's natural, but that it's possible to be ethically evolved (in their eyes). They don't want to be linked to such suffering. If they're still happy with their health, why does that anger you so much?

[Treblaine]

Vegetarians: Yes, been around for ages

Vegans: NO

There have been no vegan civilisations which lasted more than a few decades, as every practitioner would die from malnutrition. You NEED cows milk or some other animal by product to survive as it is the ONLY natural source of Vitamin B12.

Again, what angers me is the stupidity and arrogant ignorance Vegans have to biology and the natural world. Their fantasies of being "ethical" just reek of hypocrisy.

[AJBeetle1]

actually vegans have aswell, many smaller cultures in and around china didn't even know what milk was for a long time, and they were fine without it

[Treblaine]

That is a very vague anecdote, how the hell am I supposed to determine if they didn't eat some other sort of animal product or even if your claims have an ounce of truth to them?

I would also point out that there are many small and remote communities with unhealthy practices like incest and cannibalism, they cannot be held up as examples of sustainability.

There is a reason these vegan cultures are so small and remote, they keep dying out and restarting.

[HengistTheGreat]

Cow's milk is a very recent introduction to the human diet, humans have drunk it for no more than 10,000 years.

I like my prostate the size it is, and won't be drinking cow's milk.

[Treblaine]

You do realise that 10,000 years is almost as long as human being have even been on this planet? It is certainly longer than the earliest human civilisations.

It doesn't matter if they didn't need to drink cows milk before that time as before milk humans have always eaten the flesh of animals which is an even better source of B12.

They key to longevity is not a lack of animal protein but a lack of calories. Keeping rats on the brink of starvation increases longevity more than any other factor.

[HengistTheGreat]

"You do realise that 10,000 years is almost as long as human being have even been on this planet?"

I'd been assuming 10,000 years was nothing.

[Treblaine]

Small correction: Homo Sapiens diverged from Neanderthals about 200'000 years ago.

But every single generation (about 18-25 years for humans) affects the flow of evolution, it's lot of simultaneous small steps make big changes.

Either way, humans and our ancestors have not been able to live "naturally" without eating animals for millions of years.

[LierreKeithPwned]

"Either way, humans and our ancestors have not been able to live "naturally" without eating animals for millions of years. "

Please explain how I have been avoiding meat since 2001 and I have no health problems, and my body weight is exactly the same as when i was eating lots of whey powder and meat in 2001. Surely i'd be dead now? IN fact I had anemia problems in 2000 (loss of blood through nose) and haven't had any problems after my cauterization, my iron and all other health is perfect. ???

[Treblaine]

@LierreKeithPwned

Do you eat any animal products at all such as eggs, cheese, milk, etc?

Also, do you eat anything which has been fortified? Especially considering fortification of food has only been practical for 50 years or so. Iron fortified cereals are VERY common, virtually unavoidable now.

I've said over and over again about the necessity of humans eating "animal products" but said just "animal" by mistake, probably tried of having to explain the same thing over and over again.

[LierreKeithPwned]

Treblaine, I'm not a strict vegan and I see no problem with a vegan going around stealing some eggs from chickens once in a while. I do eat eggs occasionally by accident and/or on purpose. The idea is to not eat TONS of them, like daily for breakfast. Also it says there is in fact b12 available through bacteria, and through tiny amounts in veggies. I personally don't take that risk myself, and I just eat some egg once in a while or fortified products. The idea is not to be an extremist.

[Treblaine]

@LierreKeithPwned Agree with you 100%, it is not about extremes like "Never eat ANY animal product" or "I must eat TONS of meat".

It's all about moderation and a low meat diet is good... but eliminating all meat/animal-products is the same extreme.

[MarcusNorberg]

@Treblaine

Yes, it's an EXTREMELY healthy option :).

[Treblaine]

@MarcusNorberg Good, you agree that eating meat and dairy in moderation is healthy.

[TheSuperAstro]

Treblaine your comments are annoying and you just keep repeating the same bla bla over and over again...

A vegan diet is not a "natural" diet... it's just the BEST diet for health, for the environment and for higher ethics...

Who cares about the way we get our B12?

[Treblaine]

I refer you to my last comment beginning:

"I can't be bothered..."