Nothing Resolved in Honduras

[Crusader4ever1]

Que dices...contrabando...cuando HUGO CHAVEZ es el REY del FARC...Ya sabemos de sus drogas y contrabando acceptable de su gobierno!

[Crusader4ever1]

Gracias Micheletti...es el Heroe de Honduras...con corage en contra el comunismo de HUGO CHAVEZ...PUNTO FINAL.

[tomilia]

MICHELETTI: fai schifo, vattene, scompari, CREPA!!!!

VIVA ZELAYA!!!!!

[chepsoki]

The accord that was signed was proposed by Zelayas side, theres a video where Meza (a zelaya rep in the negociations for the accord) states that congress should be the ones to decide if zelaya is reinstated or not. Now that the accord has been signed by both sides, zelaya is unwilling to follow the accord, as expected zelayas greed for power doesnt allow Honduras to move on to eleccions in November.

[NicosNicosNicosNicos]

It is true President Zelaya proposed that congress (which voted to nominate Micheletti on the basis of a forged resignation letter), rather than the Supreme Court make the formal decision. It is equally true that the spirit of the accord, as was immediately declared worldwide, was to bring things back to the state they were in before the 28 June coup. Restoring democracy, albeit restoring a president for 3 months, is not about greed.

[chepsoki]

The spirit of the accord is for a reconciliation government one that includes the constitutional president roberto micheletti and members of zelayas party while members of congress convined to reafirm the illegality of zelaya. The only thing that came out of this accord is more proof that zelaya has been trying to stop the elections all year long.

[NicosNicosNicosNicos]

"proof that zelaya has been trying to stop the elections all year long. "

Remember Zelaya was preparing a referendum? The fourth urn? The first three urns were the november election, weren't they? Doesn't make much sense, that comment in this light.

[REALHONDURAS]

And the lack of preparing a budget for 2009? When most budgte proposals are submitted in January we were in JUne and he still hadnt submitted a budget for 2009, let me guess he was going to run the elections just like his referendum "Poll" ? Ballots from venezuela, administered by zelaya, counted by zelaya, and already had 450,000 votes (Dont try to argue this zelaya said it himself) before the "POlling was to take place? very scientific and accurate dont you think?

[NicosNicosNicosNicos]

"Let me guess" kind of sums it up. What did Zelaya say himself? (You may prove he spent his days raping cows, I would argue a legal process would in such an event have been legitimate, but a coup?.)

Now I genuinely wonder to what extent you, or a number of others, have really swallowed the PR produced by the coup and its expensive US PR firms. How long does a grandmother's ears tail and teeth need to be before you can recognise a wolf?

[REALHONDURAS]

Your giving the man too much credit as an honest man, this is a guy that admitted to wining the elections with fraud. HIs "REferendum polling" was illegal his venezuelan ballots were confiscated, then he lead a mob to break into a military base and steal them back thats what led to his legal removal of an unconstitutional president.

[NicosNicosNicosNicos]

That was part of the argument used. All the Latin American coups I can remember right now were preceded by -let's call it controversy. A golpista always needs to seek some kind of legitimacy. The novelty here is the legalistic discourse, not the justification. I disapprove of fraud, but as I say, were it the case, were it indeed the problem, the solution is not an even graver crime.

[REALHONDURAS]

Something your not mentioning is that in all coups, all powers of state are replaced and the coup is initially run by the military by order of an unconstitutional faction. Something that didnt happen in Honduras all governmental institutes and its people are all the same before zelaya the and the military acted on a court order by the supreme court, hence not a coup, zelaya isnt king of honduras he was the president hence seperation of powers and not above the law.

[NicosNicosNicosNicos]

I agree that this coup is innovative in some aspects, while never ceasing to be a coup. There tend to always be several actors involved in a coup: landed oligarchy/sectors of the media/the army/foreign embassies. There is a separation of powers, and a president should not be empowered to dissolve congress or remove the S, Court if disapproving of their rulings. Likewise, the latter had no powers to remove the president, precisely because of separation of powers, amongst others.

[REALHONDURAS]

well like i said its better we stick to facts then false accusations. There always will be the same actors because the system of government is composed by the same actors but your negating one large fact the CONSTITUTION, the rule of law for every nation is different and leaves no room for interpretation. The Honduran laws in this case functioned in a way that saved a nation from an unconstitutional would be dictator.

[NicosNicosNicosNicos]

Well, the actors I'm thinking of predate democracy in Latin America, and are generally the real powers, more powerful than the governments of the day. I'm speaking of the rich minority that owns so much and leaves so little to the majorities: the bunch of families that runs Honduras; the handful of surnames that own huge swathes of Argentina's economy, etc.

[chepsoki]

Once again the Constitutional President Roberto Micheletti is protecting the elections while zelaya just as before trying to find anyway to stop the elections. Zelaya doesnt seem to understand that his return to POWER would be unconstitutional (that is if hes ever read it) and i dont say that but ..... ALL THE BODIES OF GOVERNMENT that are the same people since before and after zelaya broke the law.

[blackiron60]

Revolution is the only solution here.

[joygarner]

these days, I don't trust any government who does a deal with the US Federal Government, which is owned and controlled by bankers now.

[NicosNicosNicosNicos]

How does that compare with Honduras, owned by a small group of families and banana companies? A mess huh?

[joygarner]

Good point

[TheJulienT]

The main problem which the reactionary right-wing fascists exhibit well is that , although they say they love "Democracy" and they love the USA. They are not aware, they are ignorant of the basis of American Government. If these petit-yankees did read, then they could for example start w/ reading the American Forefathers like James Madison, they could actually read the American Constitution and see that the word "Democracy" is not there, not even once...

[TheJulienT]

now the fascists and petit-yankees are once more faced, as they have always been, with the double standard which is their reactionary raison d etre....democracy is process..a constitution is a paper which limits the state from interference in civil society..that piece of paper, the constitution, should be established and upheld and changed by civil society, by the People whenever the People feel like it....NOT, NEVER, by the military...

Constitutions are to serve the People, not corporations

[EmeterioBetances]

The people should create a popular movement for real change. Not just Zeyala reinstatement but a more radical left wing government. Simple as that and all the nations in Latin America keep the heat up on them.

[Carlosjavierestrada]

Things are going pretty much that way down below. Don't be surprise of what might happen on Nov 29th!

[AndrewMann552]

RealHonduras is a fascist clown, just spreading ridiculous propaganda. He belongs in 1936 Germany.

[REALHONDURAS]

In what way am i a fascist?? clown? and what ridiculous propaganda am i spreading??

[NicosNicosNicosNicos]

"There a terrorist group and eveything that has happened to them has been a reaction to there attacks on the Honduran citizens".

[sodalmen]

You can still wait foy your restitution bitch, wait it for ever, because we wont let you be our president again, you stupid asshole, you are the worst president ever, after all you have done, you think we still want you back? no way bitch, NO WAY, YOU WILL BE ROTTING IN THE BRASSILIAN EMBASSY FOR EVER,THATS YOUR PRISION IDIOT, AND YOU GOT IN BY YOURSELF, so screw you Zelaya, i hope you die of overdose, beacuse we all know you are a coke junkie

[greenhell666]

I sense bullshit ... and US intervention,

Military is so shit ...

and Bertha is right.

[charlessmyth]

There was no coup and the constitution has been secured. Roberto Micheletti and his team can be very proud of their achievements. Zelaya should sneak his way back out of Honduras, and be content in his exile.

[NicosNicosNicosNicos]

and people can go back to being happy and poor, tortured and murdered for their political opinions. You're right! It's just great. We can all go to sleep now...there's nothing to look at ladies and gentlemen.

[REALHONDURAS]

yeah because poor, torture, and murder is synonimus with every thing but zelaya........... once again speek with facts not bullshit, with zelaya crime and curroption got worst, and the economy more then 70,000 jobs lost due to zelaya.

[NicosNicosNicosNicos]

Well, "everything but" -no: Politically motivated torture and murder is the actual, documented record that the regime that carried out the coup against Zelaya has had to offer so far. (For more such fun facts look up Amnesty's Honduran reports if remotely interested).

On the subject of the Mich regime: they are working to remove actual improvements to the poor, such as hospitals/health centres. Zelaya is not my god, but if he hadn't acted for the poor he'd surely still be in power today.

[REALHONDURAS]

Politically motivated/? There a terrorist group and eveything that has happened to them has been a reaction to there attacks on the Honduran citizens. There are less then 8 deaths caused by zelayas yells for unrest, while zelayas terrorist group has killed non political people like the death of a kid, attacked a school bus with students, burned buses and restaurants.

[REALHONDURAS]

The Micheletti government is transitional government it is there to protect our rights for the elections that the people of Honduras deserves, while zelayas government is trying everything possible to stop elections so he can stay in power as a dictator. He's crazy just like his daddy chavez.. Just look at him he says hes for the poor and venezuela now has no water or electricity, and what does he say" IT THE fault of the rich for having pools" Jaaaaaaaaj

[Yadinmejia]

And what about of the human rights violation to our people?

[REALHONDURAS]

exactly yadin the violations and Human rights of the Terrorist.

The murder of two boys, one who was the nephew to president micheletti, Burning of buses, attacks on school busses with children inside, attack of a school, burning of restaurants, attacks on honduran citizens, planting of bombs in malls, radio stations, and public bathrooms., attacks on senior citizens

[NicosNicosNicosNicos]

Fo those who have no idea what this guy is on about, this Al Jazeera article begins with a clip from the propaganda he watches on TV which pretty much explains it: /watch?v=EYY4vj9ROC0

[REALHONDURAS]

jaj ive never even seen that commercial niconiconico, i get my information directly in honduras unlike you that gets it from aljazera( yeah very credible, even though they recieve there feeds from telesur) or chavez channel (telesur) they love to put a spin to the situation.

check out these videos no media no spin:

/watch?v=1ztfCeDdr6g&feature=P­layList&p=103740F3A2897A8D&ind­ex=2

/watch?v=1yIDyomvMfQ&NR=1

[NicosNicosNicosNicos]

It is a clip from Regime-approved Honduran news that produces the same discourse, criminalising legitimate social protest, as you expressed in a couple of posts.

I never said Al Jazeera was my sole source, (it isn't) but they have their own reporters there, and pretty good ones too it seems to me.

[REALHONDURAS]

Im not saying it doesnt exist, it obviously exists what im saying is it isnt runn 24/7 on tv like the clip portays.Legitimate social protests doesnt involve burning busses, restaurants, attacking citizens out in the streets, if you want to see legitimate social protest look at the peaceful pro constitutional government marches that have been much larger then the rioting zelayista mobs.

[NicosNicosNicosNicos]

Watching your clips....(if placing the title "DISTURBIOS Y TERROR CAUSAN ZELAYISTAS" next to some damaged property is a "neutral" point of view). What would happen if you ever had to demonstrate to defend legitimate rights one day, and some protestors smashed shop windows? Would that make your claims less legitimate?

[REALHONDURAS]

did you miss the zelayistas throwing rocks and breaking windows there? Or you missed that part? If your trying to defend something that even the zelayistas admit to, then it shows your missing a lot of truth not being in Honduras.

[NicosNicosNicosNicos]

I saw that. Looks just like demonstrators throwing rocks at buildings in any part of the world. If you want to balance that with threatening Latin America with a return to the bad old days of 1970s-1990s dictatorship, I'd say, the there is no competition in terms of moral weight.

[REALHONDURAS]

Your first statement is true just soem vandalism then we can suerely agree that there is no repression and the police is just keeping the peace. In regards to your second statement that would be true had it been a coup fortunetly it was a legal removal of a dictator that wanted to dessolve the constitution for his own benefit and stop the elections, thats why he didnt approve a budget for 2009 leaving the TSE (The electoral campaign) With no money to run elections.

[NicosNicosNicosNicos]

If we look at those famous Amnesty reports and others like them, it appears that torturing people with cigarettes, shooting at unarmed young people, arresting people on charges of "sedition" (i.e: saying things someone doesn't want to hear) are far from "keeping the peace". Again, he wanted to hold a referendum. A fourth urn, with the other other 3 urns which means the election. You are way over the top with "to dessolve the constitution for his own benefit and stop the elections", no?

[REALHONDURAS]

a but those are accusations by a terrorist faction(The zelayista) that is trying to destabalize the peace in Honduras, all under investigation and many are false accusations, just like the RIVERS OF BLOOD zelaya claimed to be in the first days of his constitutional removal, no rivers of blood.

[NicosNicosNicosNicos]

Listen, man. If you decide from day one that someone against the coup is a "Zelayista" and that Zelayista=terrorist, and that anything else that follows either confirms this or doesn't count, I say you are liable to miss some important elements of the picture.

I trust people committed to Human Rights such as Amnesty more than a violent military or police investigating itself.

[REALHONDURAS]

Im just adressing the zelayistas (the Frente Contra el Blah blah group) I know there are people that arent for Zelaya but are against the legal removal of him, just that in HOnduras those are a small fraction, while the majority of the population support the elections in November without Zelaya in Honduras that is. There are other allegations that your not menstioning by the Zelaya supporters. There are Human rights violations on both sides and i agree they need to be investigated........

[REALHONDURAS]

Until then i think it would be more responsible to avoid speculation and false accusations until they are investigated. In the mean time the facts should be given more importance then speculation

[NicosNicosNicosNicos]

To avoid speculation and media manipulation is fine. Amnesty doesn't write its reports based on speculation though. Likewise you can say you have seen a burning bus on video, you don't need a court to confirm it.

[REALHONDURAS]

Amnesty Internation is a Human Rights organisation like i said before if there are human rights violations being commited by both sides then they should be investigated, thats where amnesties fuction ends, it is not in there capability nor fuction to interpret the law. For the legal side we can find i in the Congressional report and the report by a firm for the U.N. that concur it was not a coup.

[NicosNicosNicosNicos]

I was referring to Amnesty's role investigating HR abuses, systematic ones in particular. I do not believe there are two equivalent players in terms of a state-run army and the actions of individuals on the other hand.

[chepsoki]

If you look at Amnesty International page there are ACCUSATIONS, as realhonduras states, of said repression, but at the same time you can see that If you follow the report from before the removal of Zelaya during Zelaya the HR violations where being committed there as well. It seems to follow a pattern that the police is poorly trained. During Zelaya's administration AI reported many accusations as well, In other words Zelaya's return will not bring a stop to HR accusations.

[NicosNicosNicosNicos]

That's fair enough as far as it goes. Zelaya's return, or any other move towards democracy, would contribute to removing the state of impunity of a government systematically brutalising the political opposition.

[REALHONDURAS]

Or Zelayas illegal return will just highten repression something that has been on an upward curve since zelaya took office.

[NicosNicosNicosNicos]

...hmm am not convinced I see that picture. I am still curious as to whether in your heart of hearts you genuinely cannot see how the removal of Zelaya was damaging to democracy.

In any case, thanks for the courteous exchange we've been having.

[REALHONDURAS]

To understand the legal removal of Zelaya it would have had to been followed for the last 4 years since he took office not just the last 3 months, Thank you for taking the time to point out your point of view.

[REALHONDURAS]

If al jazeera was so credible like you say why havent they shown one pro constitution march?? As you said "pretty good ones" why dont they show both sides of the picture? For instance the many pro constitution and free election marches that have reached numbers larger then 100,000, are they afraid to show the majority of the Honduran population to the international world? The largest pro-zelaya march only reached 30,000 est.

[NicosNicosNicosNicos]

The thing about that is as a journalist you are not morally obliged to draw an equivalence between those protesting a crime, and those who defend it. To me both sides of the picture (which may in fact have many many sides) is more a case of (1 side): the interests and motivations of those who planned carried out and supported the coup, and ("the"other side):what is threatened by it (i.e.: Latin American democracy and Human Rights). One can have so many other perspectives too.

[REALHONDURAS]

Zelaya is a dictator and the Honduran people know that thats why more then 80% OF the population doent support zelaya..

either way your still avoiding the main point............. zelaya signed an accord that he agreed upon and now hes not honoring it, like usual a man that cant follow law, constitution, accords or contracts, typical dictatorships he thinks hes above the law.

[AndrewMann552]

The masses need to dump Zelaya and the coup regime, they need to carry out a full popular revolution and establish a Workers' Republic which would set Central America aflame and maybe even kickstart the new Mexican Revolution of 2010!

[NicosNicosNicosNicos]

yeah but yeah but, back on planet earth, people have to deal with the political reality mann.

[TheBigHo111]

the money vs. the people

[TheRealNews]

Note: At 08:39 the subtitle quotes Shannon as saying "Honduran democracy is NOT in the hands of Hondurans. It should read is NOW in the hands of Hondurans. This will be corrected tomorrow.

[ceomeye]

man... all these people look white? As long as there some white people there, we can see the same ol trash...

[7rightnow]

basta ya con Zelaya y todos los communistas

[REALHONDURAS]

It would be nice if THE FAKENEWS told a little bit of truth... the accord thaT was signed was the one submitted by zelaya...he proposed that congress decide while President Micheletti was against it and said the Supreme Court should decide.... All thats going on in Honduras is zelaya once again breaking an accord just like he broke the constitucion

[libertits]

shut up, you mong.

[REALHONDURAS]

estas dolida libertits?? Once again your criminal president trying to back out of an accord, figures idiot cant follow rules or agreements.

[E611032]

Ha, ha, ha. I know the angry. Libertis is crying for his populist dictator. You're right: the idiots cant follow agreements or rules.

[thedarkest001]

your an idiot. zelaya is not the issue the constitution itself is the issue and the people want it ammended. he never proposed changing it himself that would be ridiculous, all he did was support a constituent assembly to ammend the constitution. that is what the people do when they want their constitution changed they create an assembly to decide what should be in it. if the people are not allowed to do that then a constitution is just a piece of paper.

[REALHONDURAS]

Hey brain child inform yourself before you spew lies, the constitution can be amended... but theres a legal way of doing that. The only parts of the constitution that cant be ammended are the ones that state the legnth of a presidency... and thats to protect us from dictators like chavez and zelaya. Idiot!

[thedarkest001]

first of all fuck you. second of all a constituent assembly is a way of bypassing the bureaucracy of the legal system in order to amend the constitution democratically, taking into appreciation the needs of all not just the rich. Second of all calling all socialist leaders dictators only makes you look more childish.

[thedarkest001]

and if the constituent assembly wants to change the term lengths then that is within their power because they are the people and thats how democracy works. I don't even agree with changing the term lengths but again if the constituent assembly decides that that is what they want then it should happen. the only dictatorship is that of Micheletti has caused hundreds to be beaten and killed by his thug police.

[REALHONDURAS]

Oh your so inoccently ignorany... one question... so every time zelaya proposed a change he should have consulted the people and skipped congress??? or he only planned to do it this one time because congress told him no?

why didnt he consult the people before joining alba? why didnt he consult the people before he gave away honduran territory to nicaragua? Remember congress is there to protect us from dictators like zelaya from walking all over the people. Thank god for the brave soldiers

[thedarkest001]

you keep going back to Zelaya! I do not care what Zelaya has done, if he is not reinstated there will be no constituent assembly and the assembly is what the people want.

[REALHONDURAS]

Havent you heard?? he resigned the constituyente awhile back ago.... thats not even in the accord... actually it is in the accord NO CONSTITUYENTE OR ANY KIND OF ATTEMPT.... have you even read the accord?? Or your basing yourself on the fact that zelaya may be lying again?? READ THE ACCORD THERE IS NO CONSTITUYENTE!!

[thedarkest001]

...did i say I supported the San Jose accords, no i did not.

[REALHONDURAS]

JAJAJAJA so your one of the terrorist zelayistas that burn buses attack citizens murder children attack schools and burn restaurants.....law of the jungle right? this conversation is over. i dont argue with terrorist.

[thedarkest001]

pff that last one really proves that your an idiot.

[REALHONDURAS]

Im the idiot?? yet you havent been able to reply to anything ive said, you have no fatcs, and your whole arguement is based on your own opinion with no evidence backing it.

[thedarkest001]

your having your own argument with yourself all i'm saying is that the people want a constiuent assembly and they should get it.

[REALHONDURAS]

And who told you thats what the people want??? show me hard evedence thats what we want?? IM in Honduras and i can tell you that the people dont want that they want eleccions and zelaya in jail. Even the marches pro constitutional government have many many many times larger then the terrorist zelaya marches. Your whole argument is based on opinion

[thedarkest001]

you must be stayin in a gated all-white community.

[greenhell666]

never argue with a fanatic thedarkest001

REALHONDURAS is shit

[flyhead2]

Please provide some evidence to support your opinions.

[NicosNicosNicosNicos]

You want hard evidence? Have a referendum.

[metaljhongli]

Mi Dios!! que bajo nivel de analisis!

[REALHONDURAS]

Read part 2 of the accord.... looks like your president has betrayed you...i cant believe you didnt know that?? maybe you should stop listening to the terrorist media zelayista el tiempo, canal 36, globo they only lie.

[CatrachoS0yY0]

You need to do you're reasearch. Zelaya did try to change the constitution and he also violated its provisions.

[thedarkest001]

so your saying by wanting to poll the people to see if they would support extended term limits he violated the constitution? THAT IS ALL HE DID.

[CatrachoS0yY0]

And firing the cheif of military for not breaking the law? ARE YOU SHITTING ME? And he had no right to poll on himself weather or not the people where to change his term. That's not on him. Look when you are president there is no "That's ALL he did". The supreme leader of a country doesn't violate the constitution period. let alone remove people from their positions for not breaking the law. That's called corruption. And there's enough of that shit already. Stay in touch with what goes down here

[NicosNicosNicosNicos]

The president is the absolute head of the army. I could ask that you read the question in the poll that does not mention term limits at all, let alone his term limits which would no longer be relevant, but you sound beyond such niceties.

"The supreme leader of a country doesn't violate the constitution period. "

So Micheletti and his merry men must all be having a pyjama party in San Jose de Costa Rica by now.

[siradam575]

Great f'king in depth story, I love break down of the agreement, could you get that from network or cable news? Don't know, ain't watchin' no goddamm tv. I'm glad I donate monthly!

[INFANTRIA666]

The US is going to recognize the elections regardless? this, after Obama himself said the US wouldnt? you gotta be fucking kidding me! This is all nothing more than a big fucking game to them.

[EncompassedRunner]

this vid inverts truth: the removal of Zelaya was no coup(!), but a most beautiful illustration of the precise following of the Constitution by Congress & the Supreme Court in removing a socialist attempting to bypass the Constitution. It is Obama & Zelaya who are acting despicably & tyrannically

[spartan2600]

You are an apologist for dictatorial government. All fascist coups claim to be representative of the people and democratic, but none of them are.

[EncompassedRunner]

nope, spartan, I actually lived in Honduras and personally know the people involved on both sides...Obama is on the wrong side, the socialist, corrupt, tyrannical side on this one...along with Chavez, Castro, Correa, Ortega, Lulu, ALBA, etc.

[NicosNicosNicosNicos]

Thank god the Honduran military that suspended the constitution, repress democratic expression, who torture and rape...thank God they're not socialists eh?

[spartan2600]

No question you are among *wealthy* friends then.

[NicosNicosNicosNicos]

Shannon says the future of Honduras "IS in the hands of the Hondurans" (as full of lies as such a statement may be and is), where the subtitles here say "is NOTin the hands...etc."

[egolayer13]

Watched it over again. I can confirm this. Shannon says "El futuro de los Hondurenos ya está en manos de los Hondurenos". The subtitles should be corrected, even if Shannon *is* full of shit.

[libertits]

I noticed that too. I wonder if this was done on purpose? It's not good to misguide people. Shannon said that it IS in the hands of Hondurans (if he calls the honduran congress a body that represents the population, a group that presented a fake resignation letter of president Zelaya, he must be fucking kidding me), while it is not, it is in the hands of despots and Shannon knows this. The US should be unmasked in this not covered.. Real News, what's up? you've always helped us.

[NicosNicosNicosNicos]

Give them an inch they'll take a million miles.

An excellent piece.