@ocerg1111 holy crap I didnt put that together. Well she went back to what appeared to be certain death on Enterprise C, now she just wants the same from the next generatiion of soldiers. I would be funny if she said during the speech, Hey comeon I sucked it up. I am a girl and I showed some balls, now you do it. Thats funny considering the constant bickering between B5 and Star Trek fans. I am both. I knew about G'Kar and the Romulan Tomalok.
@pazios2002 JMS stole a lot of star trek people. Lyta Alexander (Pat Tallman) was heavily underused on star trek, barely even getting a line here and there -and got taken into B5 and used to her fullest.
@ocerg1111 Umm, I believe you are confusing Pat Tallman with Denise Crosby... The actress playing Lyta Alexander was never a cast member on Star Trek...
@bgdrewsif incorrect sir! Deise crosby was Tasha Yar, but pat tallman, who played lyta alxander, was a red haired security oficer (and a stunt woman) in several episodes, in addition to playing one of the thieves in Starship mine, stealing the enterprise, and got to hold Capt Picard at gunpoint. She had tragically few lines, an din some episodes none at all! But when JMS stole her away, she sure got plenty!
you see those crew shuttles and atmospheric transports? thats how desperate the humans are. they've resorted to arming transports with weapons to try and defeat the minbari
@firepatriot42 a shuttle isn't a fighting ship. look at Star Trek. In the Voyager ep 'Coda', a shuttle is attacked by a cruiser. the shuttle fires it weapons to little effect and is destroyed. In Star Wars, the Imperial Lambda's don't even have weapons that can defend itself.
One stupid mistake that lead to the death of one important Mimbari, nearly spelt the death of the human race.
The speech here was simple saying:
"If you stay, you WILL die.......but your death may give others enough time to escape and live on."
The tone in her voice had no pride or arrogance in it, she knew the human race was doomed......No one could fight the Mimbari and win, and earth found out the hard way.
@sirAthrus What I take away from this, is that the Mimbari were not nearly as civilised as they liked to believe, seeing as even though Dukat was an extremely important individual to them, he was one man and for his death they thought it was justified to enact genocide on an entire species who had no hope of fighting them
@weldonwin In my own opinion I'd say you're half right, the Mimbari who fought were the Warrior caste.
The Warrior caste were always at odds with the other castes, especially the Religious caste from who Delen came from and despite her telling the warriors to kill the humans (spoken out of grief and anger) she and the others of her caste preached peace, it was her caste who managed to call the cease fire and end the war.
The warriors wanted blood cause they knew they'd win the war.
To paraphrase G'Kar, why do we put the emphasis on DIE?
So the President is saying "We need you to DIE!"
Pardon me but I am not moved by this speech. Die for Allah, die for Jesus, die for Democracy, die for the Revolution, die for the Nation (any nation), die for Humanity. If you are looking for a reason to die then there is no end to the possibilities.
If you really want to be a hero then find something to live for and oppose the death force.
@StimuLAZ The President wasn't telling them she needed them to die. She was telling them they needed them to fight in an uttlerly hopeless battle against impossible odds so that there would be some chance for the Human race to survive.
They were indeed fighting for survival. Just not their own...
@Kastila Actually she said "anyone who joins this battle will never come home" which means they were not expected to survive. In other words they were expected to die. Are you saying the president didn't know what she was saying?
"The twilight of the human race" are evocative words, a fancy way to say extinction. If she really believed it she would have said "extinction."
It was an assumption by military intelligence and the words "we can therefore only conclude" do not make it inevitable.
mmm... I'll rephrase: She wasn't sending them out just to get blown away. She was sending them out so others could live. Not politics, not oil, not power, not money. Survival.
As you put it "If you really want to be a hero then find something to live for and oppose the death force." They did oppose death. The death of everyone on Earth. The death of the entire human species. They were fighting FOR life. Everyone's life (and had been doing it for 2 years by that point...).
I'm with you, kesk71 & TankCop. Would that we had people about nowadays with such passion, such commitment and such honesty. Sends tingles down the spine...
i'm surprised they didn't go all out crazy with nukes... if they are going to make suicide runs wouldn't you send every nuke you had left to take out the enemy fleet or as much of it as you can?
@jutau Since they couldn't reliably target the Minbari ships firing nukes wouldn't do much. The Minbari fighters would have either taken them out before they got close or they would have simply maneuvered their ships out of the missiles' flight path and blast range.
One of the things I like about this clip is the moment where the Asian pilot exits stage left (right), I assume to go to the launch bays. Asians have sometimes been stereotyped or marginalized as being cowardly or traitorous ("yellow"), even in otherwise excellent shows/movies. But in this one the Asian is the first to step up to the altar, as it were. It was like all he needed to hear was that his sacrifice would buy time for civilian lives and that was enough to step into the night. Cool.
@NEWSUNX77 Very true! Babylon 5 was pretty good at recognizing equality. Dr. Franklin was consistently one of the best, most well rounded, intelligent, ethical characters on the show. It's a shame we lost that actor because he proved to be one of the most engaging and entertaining people to watch on B5.
@PaladinHero I remember reading an article recently how asians are almost always portrayed stereotypically in movies, either their karate/kung-fu masters, or good at math but socially akward, or just pure comic relief characters. Looking back at most the movies i watch its easy to see the trend. One thing i've always liked about good science fiction is you'll so rarely find racism. As i think those who look so far into the future always come to the same conclusion that we are one.
@PaladinHero You know, i never really even considered the race of the guy to be all that important. I always comment on the "Asian Guy" because he just has this look on his face that just says "That is all i needed to hear." Of course, at that exact time the president is saying, "Several Hundred Civilians"
I just dont see the asian-cultural-stereotype thing. I see it more as a Human, hearing just what he needed to hear, for him to jump into the "Very face of Death itself."
@bluntman1138 That's kinda my point; B5 was so good at showing humanity in its writing that it avoided the racial stereotypes most other shows didn't. It's a sign of maturity to be honest in presentation like that and not pander to audiences (the sassy black friend, the traitorous Asian, the nerdy white guy) in ways that otherwise mark lazy hack writing. And while it's never good to get hung up on race, it's also never good to condition ourselves to be "color bind". We should honor diversity.
@Hiraghm They did not "haul out their guns." As you say, it was a first contact situation.
The Minbari approached with gunports open for a good reson, in their own cultural context. They could not anticipate that humans would interpret their tradition as a threat. As it turned out, even their scan was interpreted as a threat and they had no idea. The humans reaction (hopefully not representative of all members of the human race) was a merciless unprovoked attack.
@StimuLAZ - And they were the ones with the experience at first contact. They should have anticipated moving their weapons into firing positions, that is to say, opening their gun ports on approach, would be regarded as a hostile action. If, when I first meet you, I swing my fist at your head, you're going to interpret that as a hostile action. Regardless of cultural blindness, that's just an evolutionary reflex.
Possibly my favourite part of this scene is the reactions of the soldiers and pilots. None of them say anything. None of them need to say anything. No one has to be cajoled into doing it, no one has to quip or make a morbid joke.
All that they need is a small glance aside and the faintest of nods.
@VIV292 Agreed, being human in a sci-fi series is fun because it allows us to explore ourselves. Who we would want to be, who we think we would be and what we might truly be. Fiction, science or otherwise, is the mind's way of self exploration which B5 took to heart.
As Delenn said, "Out of their differences comes symmetry, their unique capacity to fight against impossible odds. Herd them, and they only come back stronger"
As Londo said, "The Humans,I think, knew they were doomed, but where another race would surrender to despair, the Humans fought back with even greater strength. They made the Minbari fight for every inch of space... They were magnificent."
I find that showing your gun ports open as a sign of respect is a dumb concept... I wonder how many other wars were fought before in the last thousand years of their history.
race #1: Hello, nice to meet you.
race #2 : Hello, (gun ports open) nice to meet you too. Like my big guns pointing out at you?
@jutau Weeeeeelll... There's places in the Middle East today where not diving for cover when they start firing in your direction as you approach (while also loudly announcing your friendly intentions in their language) is a traditional way to signal your friendly intentions.
They didn't have them powered up; the prob was the one guy not following 1st contact protocol. Understandable on both sides; that's the real tragedy of it all.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Ridiculous. Like cavemen in a solar car. Yesterday's clichees in tomorrow's costumes. A GWB speech in the distant future? In the future there will be no military - or there won't be a future to begin with.
I love this speech, the emotion in it and the trembling voice of the "president" give it a real quality that tugs at your heartstrings.
Humans were considered a decently powerful force, They had already proven themselves to have won a war by the time the movie stared and in the show they were a force to be reckoned with. The Minbari, were the "sleeping Giant" not understood by most races and universally feared. The Centari never challenged them, B5 was created to stop this from happening again.
would you join this battle or run. i think i would fight. i would prefer to die and save all i love then to run away a coward. that is what makes us great, we can be brave when the night comes because we are the light.
@deep6625: the thing is that "Star Trek" holds its own too much because of nostalgia. Guess there wasn´t enough time for people become nostalgic for "Babylon 5", the producers might think.
I wouldn't say that because I didn't watch star trek when I was growing up. I only started watching in more recent years so I'm not nostalgic at all for it and I think trek overall like TOS and TNG has held up over the years because of great stories, great characters and it's timeless exploration of the human condition.
this is a powerfull speech and does speak to the hero in all of us, that the few sacrificing for the good of the many..is in the human race and i always thought the Minbari war of kill them all, was kind of..well...cowardly, by that i mean..you KNOW you are more powerfull..you KNOW that the "enemy" isnt going to be able to stop you ..and yet you just persist in killing..and destroying..it takes no strength to beat up someone weaker
This always brings tears to my eyes, the emotion in the presidents voice, "one last battle to hold the line against the night"...but I shudder with respect when the asian pilot goes away (to the hangars I presume). He walks as soon as the president tells them of the hundreds that can be saved by delaying the minbari (ie, acting as human shield) if only for ten minutes. That's all he needed to hear.
@Corellian me to i know that this is in the begining and it is not "the twilight of the human race"but it still makes me cry. B5 makes me cry more than almost any other show. it is the most tragic story linear marcus londo
Wow, I just realized this "Earth President" is also the woman who played Capt. Rachel Garrett from the "Enterprise C" in the Star Trek Next Generation episode "Yesterday's Enterprise" (imho the best episode from that or any other star trek series).
@keski71 Luckily it is not history and hopefully it will never be.
This is a contrived situation that promotes a mistaken form of hero worship. Actually I don't believe that was intended. The real heroes are the ones who look for a way out, a way to stop the killing. Unfortunately many viewers seem to think the violence, weapons fire and explosions are the main thing and they miss the point.
Whenever you are moved to tears and you don't know why, be careful. Someone is messing with your mind.
@troodon311 No I did not. It was made clear that the Minbari could not understand their messages. Did you miss what started the war? A captain that Sheridan referred to as "a loose cannon" made first contact. He arrived overconfident, lusting for medals, glory, career advancement and a chance to prove human superiority. When the situation didn't match his preconceptions, his paranoia and fear took control, if you can call it control.
Follow the whole story, not just the explosions and carnage.
Delenn and Lenonn both understood English by the time Sheridan and Franklin were sent on their secret mission - the Minbari knew what the humans were saying but just kept killing.
This speech is about the Battle of the Line, not about the first contact situation that ended with the death of Dukhat. The two situations are night and day.
If I were focusing on the "explosions and carnage" I would have uploaded that stuff, not a speech imploring people to sacrifice their lives for others.
@pscnu1 Your reaction is understandable. I don't know what your situation is, but it is sad that you feel it is impossible and that you see no way out. I understand that you may see this fantasy as a parallel to your own situation.
May it comfort you to know that no actors were killed in the making of this movie. It should not comfort you to know that they deliberately evoke strong feelings to make the show popular.
Not that there is anything particularly funny about this clip but one little note of trivia is that one of the actors playing an EA trooper is, in fact, a porn star by the name of Steve St. Croix. When I first saw this years ago I did a double take and confirmed his ID on IMDB.
-The humans I think knew they were doomed. Where annother race would surrender to dispair, the humans fought back with even greater strength. They made the Minbari fight for every inch of space. In my life I have never seen anything like it, they would weep, they would prey, they would say goodbye to their loved ones, and then throw themselves without fear or hesitation into the very face of death itself, never surrendering.
No one who saw them fighting against the inevitable could help but be moved to tears by their courage, their stubborn nobility. When they ran out of ships they used guns. When they ran out of guns they used knives..and sticks and bare hands. They were magnificent. I only hope that when it its my time I may die with half as much dignaty as I saw in their eyes in the end. They did this for two years, they never ran out of courage, but in the end they ran out of time.
This is moving to the point of being almost unwatchable. Look at the pilots - there's no false BS bravado about "whupping ET's ass", just the quiet, extraordinary dignity of human beings giving their lives for the greater good. I'm not the crying type, but every time I watch this I want to bawl my eyes out.
@ConorLawler - BS... no human sacrificed himself for "the greater good". He sacrificed himself for love. Love of his mother, his sweetheart, his children, even his friends. But never for some nebulous "greater good". It has always been so.
An amazing piece of cinema. One of the few Babylon 5 pieces that I missed in my travels beween Canada and the Caribbean over the past several years. Thank you so much for posting this on youtube! And always thank you to JMS and crew for the creativity.
The President mentioned loss of contact with Io. The Steel Brigade held the volcanic Jovian moon and the vital transfer point against the Minbari attack. Fifteen hundred of the Earth Alliance's finest ground troops braced for the hammer blow they knew was coming. When the dust had cleared and the Minbari had departed in the wake of their (inexplicable) surrender, barely 150 of the Steel Brigade were still walking, breathing or both. But they had held, unlike the Line...
In "The Coming of Shadows", the Minbari were the deciding factor that persuaded the Centauri Republic to let all the wounded return to Narn Homeworld.
The Earth Alliance together with the Minbari Federation are powerful enough to topple the Centauri Republic. Then again, the Minbari are powerful enough to lay waste to anything except the First Ones, of which they were the pawns of one... :p
You mean when Morden and his associates helped again in the episode "The Coming of Shadows"? Or are you rather referring to "The Long, Twilight Struggle"? In "The Coming...", the Minbari added their desire to oversee everything was right, whereas in "Twilight Struggle", Londo immediately rebuffed anything Sheridan proposed. He even declared that 100 Narn are going to be killed for every murdered Centauri in the upcoming occupation of Narn Homeworld.
I think the problem is that JMS was a little too human-centric. In a more realistic situation, Earth (and Narn) should have been in the League and not one of the five powers given their ages.
I don't remember there being any reason to think humans reached a level akin to the First Ones before any of the other races - just that they eventually did reach that level.
Straczinsky confirmed in the Usenet message group that humanity became the first race to achieve a status similar to the First Ones, followed by the Minbari.
Humans weren't first from these young races to reach level of First Ones..Minbari were. Million years from now Centauri and Narn are still there in a way..but they aren't at "First One" level
As a species, we are more special than anything else, and at the present time, it is the only way we can be portrayed in space/science fiction. Unless we are shown conclusive proof of other sentient life forms, we are, as it now stands, the only known sentient race in the universe. I only hope we are not, and in the future we CAN be portrayed as something less "special".
@Aldecoraziel Nope, the first were Minbari. It was with their help that Humans became the second, followed by many others shortly there after. Shortly in terms of the galaxy and some tens of thousands of years as it is.
@Aldecoraziel " It then culminates in humanity becoming the first race to achieve a status similar to the First Ones."
Nah, you're pulling shit out of your arse with that comment. Who is to say the Minbari didn't get there first? 800,000 years is a big bloody gap from the end of season 4 to when Sol goes Nova.
Actually I think the humans were supposed to be fairly powerful, despite the recent loss to the Minbari. Remember how the Londo wasn't too eager to start a war with the humans when Sheridan told him Earth was sending observers to the colony the Centauri took from the Narn.
Plus Earth created and ran B5, of course they're going to be on its advisory council.
Actually, Londo denied any request from the Earth Alliance sending observers, showing that Earth Force alone isn't powerful enough to threaten the Centauri Republic. Only when the Minbari Federation decided to join in the Earth Alliance demands for observer did the Centauri Republic back down and agreed to send all prisoners back to Narn Homeworld.
Winning the Dilgar war made the EA a superpower. Just as WWII rose america from some little colony at the edge of the world to the most powerful nation on earth.
Actually, the main reason for that effect was that the home turf fighting for the US was negligible compared to the other participants. Even Britain got a lot of its home territory, including its capital, trashed. The US production was not only not crippled but could be cranked up and in the end fill the void right after the war, having a foot in the door in most of the upcoming markets.
There "space" age means nothing. Before the Minbari War, the Earth allinace had several colonies, and hundreds of ships. The Non aligned World are a culmination of lesser races, And only become a somewhat fighting force till the Dilgar Invasion. The dilgar were only defeated because the Humans steped up.. The Leage of Non aligned worlds was formed after the dilgar defeat.
The humans ut up a HELL of a fight against the Minbari. NONE of the non aligned worlds could have lasted 2 years
Hundreds of ships? I don't think you have taken into account that unlike the shitter star trek, Babylon 5 universe actually HAD commerce and considering how many millions of dollars are spent in building frigates (of now) how much would it cost to build a star battleship?
Hundreds is pretty far stretching their numbers. I would estimate at not more than 100 ships, not including passenger liners, cargo ships et cetera.
Taking into account Omega Destroyers, Hyperion Crusisers, Star Furies, and Star Fury Carrier ships.
An omega destroyer carried a squad of Star Furies, and was usually escorted by 2 hyperions. The Humans ahd over 100 capitl ships, throw in star furies as well, a few hundred of them, as they were garrisons for outposts and space stations.
Actually. Back when the Dilgar was about to attack EA's Orion colonies with a fleed of 180 warships. The EA found out about it countered with 600 warships and thousands of Starfuries. So, EA do have more than just a hundred.
The general Wikipedia and The Babylon Project. Both included full if limited info on what happened during the war.
Because space superiority is the highest priority during an interstellar war. They may had invested the majority of the militaries budget in building fleets of warships. Control of space is most important during an interstellar war. If that was gone, anything prominent groundside would not be of much use at all. Since the enemy can simply bombard the planet from orbit.
Earth Alliance's status as "major power" is about resources. Few worlds on that League has more advanced technology than Earth (for example Vree and Hyach). Earth didn't have any major sentient races near by and had room to expand unlike so many on that League.
Narn's had room to expand when Centauri were declining and they also managed to invade some lesser worlds with using centauri technology.
@jamesholder13 The Narn at that time were in no position to aid Earth, given the recent ending of the Centauri occupation. The best they could do was sell Earthgov weapons and ships, plus the Narn were looking for their own conquests, the oppressed making the best oppressors. The Centauri wouldn't risk angering the Minbari, and the Vorlons were busy elsewhere. Humanity's special status within the Minbari Religious Caste was unknown until the Battle of the Line and Sinclair's kidnapping.
@jamesholder13 Thing is, Earth built the station, so of course they would be on the council. They probably put the narns on because they helped Earth in the war.
@jamesholder13 Not really. The League was a group of races allied together to protect themselves from Centauri and later Narn agression. You don't exactly invite an aggressor into your midst. Earth was friendly with the Centauri and felt that they could handle the Narns on their own. That and Earth was too independent to saddle itself to the obligations belonging to a group like the League would bring.
@jamesholder13 membership in the league had nothing to do with relative age or technological sophistication. The Vree for instance were on par with the Minbari technologically, and in fact possessed teleportation technology that none of the other younger races had. The narn and earth alliance weren't in the league because they didn't need military protection or mutual defense they were both quite capable of defending themselves against anyone but the vorlons and possibly the minbari.
@jamesholder13 The point behind how he showed Humans and Narn was because of both races ways of life. Where most races are happy to just stay small, Humans and Narn look to grow.
You make great Sharks. We were once great Sharks." ,Londo
The humans were one of the younger races but gained respect and power when they defeated who the lesser races of the League couldn't, the Dilgar. The humans quickly grew their "sphere of influence' to rival many of the older races in size and scope. Technologically they were inferior to the Centauri, Narn and Minbari but they did have a respectable fleet. I think their real power was economically.
@RCTPatriot75 that and the fact that no matter how many times they got knocked down, got the nose bloodied, or had enemy ships knocking on the front door did they give up. Despite all the vitriol that certain, rather significant, members of the Minbari sent towards the humans, I think that there was a grudging bit of respect, especially among those that fought at the 'Line'. That I think is what gave humans such an edge over the other younger races.
@jamesholder13 What differences humans(and narns) from league races was resources and will to use them. They were more aggressive in their expansion. Also being major race isn't just about techonology(earth wasn't even close to best tech in any case). It's also about political influence. When Earth joined Dilgar war they brought enough resources and war knowledge(we fight a lot afterall) and helped to beat Dilgars. This resulted in political force they could use.
@jamesholder13 So when Humans said something the league tended to listen. As for Narns they got to be considered major race as they VERY aggressively built their military force strip mining their worlds on resources. He who has got lots of guns tends to be listened...Sure they might not be technologically that advanced(though they did reverse engineer lots of centauri stuff) but they got a LOT of that. LOT more than any of the league races.
You really don't know much about the sci-fi community, do you?
If memory serves me, this war could have been avoided, Gun ports open, misunderstanding ensues, Minbari ship takes a hit, Minbari take casualties, including leader Dukhat, It's what happened NEXT that caused the war: There was chaos and confusion on the flagship after the hit; junior officers needed direction. The only one in position to take action was Delenn, who gave the order. She was mad with grief, and declared jihad.
Not forgetting that even before the gun port incident, the Minbari accidentally, and without knowing, managed to disable the Earth Force jump drives with a single scan. (If I remember right)
Liberal Obamabots think Babylon 5 is the worst show ever...
bannedbyMusloons 6 days ago
And just think, if she hadn't taken the Enterprise C back in time, she'd never have been the president of Earth!
ocerg1111 1 month ago
@ocerg1111 holy crap I didnt put that together. Well she went back to what appeared to be certain death on Enterprise C, now she just wants the same from the next generatiion of soldiers. I would be funny if she said during the speech, Hey comeon I sucked it up. I am a girl and I showed some balls, now you do it. Thats funny considering the constant bickering between B5 and Star Trek fans. I am both. I knew about G'Kar and the Romulan Tomalok.
pazios2002 3 weeks ago
@pazios2002 JMS stole a lot of star trek people. Lyta Alexander (Pat Tallman) was heavily underused on star trek, barely even getting a line here and there -and got taken into B5 and used to her fullest.
ocerg1111 2 weeks ago
@ocerg1111 Umm, I believe you are confusing Pat Tallman with Denise Crosby... The actress playing Lyta Alexander was never a cast member on Star Trek...
bgdrewsif 4 days ago
@bgdrewsif incorrect sir! Deise crosby was Tasha Yar, but pat tallman, who played lyta alxander, was a red haired security oficer (and a stunt woman) in several episodes, in addition to playing one of the thieves in Starship mine, stealing the enterprise, and got to hold Capt Picard at gunpoint. She had tragically few lines, an din some episodes none at all! But when JMS stole her away, she sure got plenty!
ocerg1111 2 days ago
For all those that died to hold the line:
From the stars we were born, to the stars we return.
Now and until the end of time. We therefore commit these bodies to the deep.
SkyIshtar 1 month ago
@SkyIshtar (it's only a TV show, relax) LOL
decimated550 1 month ago
Yeah.. Don't piss off the minbari. :D
c00lizz 2 months ago
There were so many great speeches and lines from Babylon 5. And this was one of them.
Sargonarhes 2 months ago
" We handled the Dilgar. We can handle the Minbari. Ah. Ignorance & stupidity in one package ! How efficient of you ". Londo was right on the money.
knoxvilleguy2 3 months ago 3
Best speech ever
pearsonm957 3 months ago
This scene needed a, "Come on you hairy apes, do you wanna live forever!"
laxguy22655 3 months ago
@laxguy22655
No no no. Movie already destroyed original book Starship Troopers look&feel.
AnteyPL 1 month ago
I regret missing that film when it was being broadcast.
ATrickyBusiness 3 months ago
Oh my god this still makes me tear up less than a minute in!
BeccaDu 4 months ago in playlist Babylon 5 6
This brings to mind the motto "So that others may live."
firepatriot42 4 months ago
One of the few clips that brings tears to my eyes.
firepatriot42 4 months ago
In my opinion the greatest speech ever in a TV show.
simontmn 4 months ago 6
you see those crew shuttles and atmospheric transports? thats how desperate the humans are. they've resorted to arming transports with weapons to try and defeat the minbari
BMWM3GTRLOVER 4 months ago
@BMWM3GTRLOVER She did say every ship capable of fighting.
firepatriot42 4 months ago
@firepatriot42 a shuttle isn't a fighting ship. look at Star Trek. In the Voyager ep 'Coda', a shuttle is attacked by a cruiser. the shuttle fires it weapons to little effect and is destroyed. In Star Wars, the Imperial Lambda's don't even have weapons that can defend itself.
BMWM3GTRLOVER 4 months ago
One stupid mistake that lead to the death of one important Mimbari, nearly spelt the death of the human race.
The speech here was simple saying:
"If you stay, you WILL die.......but your death may give others enough time to escape and live on."
The tone in her voice had no pride or arrogance in it, she knew the human race was doomed......No one could fight the Mimbari and win, and earth found out the hard way.
sirAthrus 6 months ago 20
@sirAthrus What I take away from this, is that the Mimbari were not nearly as civilised as they liked to believe, seeing as even though Dukat was an extremely important individual to them, he was one man and for his death they thought it was justified to enact genocide on an entire species who had no hope of fighting them
weldonwin 1 week ago
@weldonwin In my own opinion I'd say you're half right, the Mimbari who fought were the Warrior caste.
The Warrior caste were always at odds with the other castes, especially the Religious caste from who Delen came from and despite her telling the warriors to kill the humans (spoken out of grief and anger) she and the others of her caste preached peace, it was her caste who managed to call the cease fire and end the war.
The warriors wanted blood cause they knew they'd win the war.
sirAthrus 1 week ago
"We live for the one and DIE for the one!"
To paraphrase G'Kar, why do we put the emphasis on DIE?
So the President is saying "We need you to DIE!"
Pardon me but I am not moved by this speech. Die for Allah, die for Jesus, die for Democracy, die for the Revolution, die for the Nation (any nation), die for Humanity. If you are looking for a reason to die then there is no end to the possibilities.
If you really want to be a hero then find something to live for and oppose the death force.
StimuLAZ 6 months ago
@StimuLAZ The President wasn't telling them she needed them to die. She was telling them they needed them to fight in an uttlerly hopeless battle against impossible odds so that there would be some chance for the Human race to survive.
They were indeed fighting for survival. Just not their own...
Kastila 6 months ago
@Kastila Actually she said "anyone who joins this battle will never come home" which means they were not expected to survive. In other words they were expected to die. Are you saying the president didn't know what she was saying?
"The twilight of the human race" are evocative words, a fancy way to say extinction. If she really believed it she would have said "extinction."
It was an assumption by military intelligence and the words "we can therefore only conclude" do not make it inevitable.
StimuLAZ 6 months ago
@StimuLAZ
mmm... I'll rephrase: She wasn't sending them out just to get blown away. She was sending them out so others could live. Not politics, not oil, not power, not money. Survival.
As you put it "If you really want to be a hero then find something to live for and oppose the death force." They did oppose death. The death of everyone on Earth. The death of the entire human species. They were fighting FOR life. Everyone's life (and had been doing it for 2 years by that point...).
Kastila 6 months ago 4
@StimuLAZ "then find something to live for" is basically what Lorien teaches Sheridan when he nearly dies at Z'ha'dum.
thedragon133 5 months ago
@thedragon133 And it is excellent advice.
StimuLAZ 5 months ago
@StimuLAZ
And they do. They die so that the Human Race might survive. What higher goal can there be?
adamtheslayer 5 months ago 4
I'm with you, kesk71 & TankCop. Would that we had people about nowadays with such passion, such commitment and such honesty. Sends tingles down the spine...
PaulCastle001 6 months ago
And the sky was full of stars. And every star was an exploding ship. One of ours.
Gilari 7 months ago 3
President's hot. I'd do her. Right on the desk. Right after the speech. Would be so HOT!
"Oh shit! we left the camera running!!"
Purplecatsoup30 7 months ago
Dude, this makes me want to go out and kill something that looks like an alien.
angryscotsman93 7 months ago
@angryscotsman93 Och,aye!
Anything that does not drink Whiskey an play Golf looks alien and deserves to be put out of its misery.
StimuLAZ 6 months ago
Point me to the nearest ship. I'll fight in this battle.
WolfgrowlofTacoClan 7 months ago 69
@WolfgrowlofTacoClan So say we all. (Crap, wrong show. Sentiment applies, though.)
kantlavar 6 months ago
@WolfgrowlofTacoClan
To the death! No retreat! No surrender!!!
Earthpatriot117 4 months ago
@WolfgrowlofTacoClan Might I fallow U into battle?
Howyaduing 3 months ago
8 Mibari have found this video.
soulgazer014 7 months ago
We do not believe survival is a possibility...
LeftoverJedi 7 months ago
@LeftoverJedi …No. Ther shall be no leftovers.
All Jedi must die, by order of the Emperor!
StimuLAZ 6 months ago
@StimuLAZ O_O Hey! Yeah, the emperor...... Uh...... Well, would you look at the time!? Gottagoseeyalater!! *running footsteps*
LeftoverJedi 6 months ago
i'm surprised they didn't go all out crazy with nukes... if they are going to make suicide runs wouldn't you send every nuke you had left to take out the enemy fleet or as much of it as you can?
jutau 8 months ago
@jutau That's my Earth Defense Plan- nuke spam.
'Sir, we have the enemy fleet numbers at roughly two hundred warships.'
'Yeah, whatever. We've got, what, about eight thousand of those nuke-y things kicking around in storage? Let's see some tax dollars at work, here!'
angryscotsman93 7 months ago
@jutau Since they couldn't reliably target the Minbari ships firing nukes wouldn't do much. The Minbari fighters would have either taken them out before they got close or they would have simply maneuvered their ships out of the missiles' flight path and blast range.
Fbueller129 6 months ago
@Fbueller129 Yes but consider this... it worked on the Vorlons and the Shadows at the Battle of Coriana 6.
jutau 6 months ago
@jutau Oh it worked alright. It royally pissed them off.
Fbueller129 6 months ago
@Fbueller129 The Minbari were already pissed off, so why not take a good chunk of their fleet along when they entered Earth space.
jutau 6 months ago
must of been one HECK of a baby boom after this.
burnticeblues 8 months ago 4
gives me goosebumps everytime
AZNKC 8 months ago
Thats what happens when you start a war with the Minbari.
Larrsify 9 months ago
One of the things I like about this clip is the moment where the Asian pilot exits stage left (right), I assume to go to the launch bays. Asians have sometimes been stereotyped or marginalized as being cowardly or traitorous ("yellow"), even in otherwise excellent shows/movies. But in this one the Asian is the first to step up to the altar, as it were. It was like all he needed to hear was that his sacrifice would buy time for civilian lives and that was enough to step into the night. Cool.
PaladinHero 9 months ago 4
@PaladinHero And right behind him was a black brother from another mother. Yeah, Awesome.
NEWSUNX77 9 months ago
@NEWSUNX77 Very true! Babylon 5 was pretty good at recognizing equality. Dr. Franklin was consistently one of the best, most well rounded, intelligent, ethical characters on the show. It's a shame we lost that actor because he proved to be one of the most engaging and entertaining people to watch on B5.
PaladinHero 9 months ago
@PaladinHero I remember reading an article recently how asians are almost always portrayed stereotypically in movies, either their karate/kung-fu masters, or good at math but socially akward, or just pure comic relief characters. Looking back at most the movies i watch its easy to see the trend. One thing i've always liked about good science fiction is you'll so rarely find racism. As i think those who look so far into the future always come to the same conclusion that we are one.
GhostInTheShell29 9 months ago
@PaladinHero You know, i never really even considered the race of the guy to be all that important. I always comment on the "Asian Guy" because he just has this look on his face that just says "That is all i needed to hear." Of course, at that exact time the president is saying, "Several Hundred Civilians"
I just dont see the asian-cultural-stereotype thing. I see it more as a Human, hearing just what he needed to hear, for him to jump into the "Very face of Death itself."
bluntman1138 8 months ago 2
@bluntman1138 That's kinda my point; B5 was so good at showing humanity in its writing that it avoided the racial stereotypes most other shows didn't. It's a sign of maturity to be honest in presentation like that and not pander to audiences (the sassy black friend, the traitorous Asian, the nerdy white guy) in ways that otherwise mark lazy hack writing. And while it's never good to get hung up on race, it's also never good to condition ourselves to be "color bind". We should honor diversity.
PaladinHero 8 months ago 3
The human race paid for the mistake of one arrogant person.
fdfederation 10 months ago 2
@fdfederation - it's the human *species*, not race.
And they paid for the ethnocentricism of the Mimbari: it was stupid of them to haul out their guns in a first-contact situation.
Hiraghm 9 months ago 4
@Hiraghm They did not "haul out their guns." As you say, it was a first contact situation.
The Minbari approached with gunports open for a good reson, in their own cultural context. They could not anticipate that humans would interpret their tradition as a threat. As it turned out, even their scan was interpreted as a threat and they had no idea. The humans reaction (hopefully not representative of all members of the human race) was a merciless unprovoked attack.
StimuLAZ 6 months ago
@StimuLAZ - And they were the ones with the experience at first contact. They should have anticipated moving their weapons into firing positions, that is to say, opening their gun ports on approach, would be regarded as a hostile action. If, when I first meet you, I swing my fist at your head, you're going to interpret that as a hostile action. Regardless of cultural blindness, that's just an evolutionary reflex.
No, the human reaction was right.
Hiraghm 6 months ago 2
8 Minbari dislike this video...
BlueCougar 10 months ago 4
@BlueCougar I was a little choked up from hearing this speech again...and then I read this comment and laughed. BlueCougar, you are hilarious.
PaladinHero 9 months ago
this speech always gives me chills when i listen to it..everyone there knows they will more then likely die but they still go out and do their duty..
TheRogueLeader 11 months ago
I got chills. hat a great speech
deadmanwalking807 11 months ago
Possibly my favourite part of this scene is the reactions of the soldiers and pilots. None of them say anything. None of them need to say anything. No one has to be cajoled into doing it, no one has to quip or make a morbid joke.
All that they need is a small glance aside and the faintest of nods.
13Thanquol 1 year ago 2
No surrender! No retreat!
PegasusViperTopGun62 1 year ago
apparently us humans are very hard too kill even when the odds are against us we always figure out a way to get out of tough situations
VIV292 1 year ago
@VIV292 We didn't figure a way out, the Minbari spared us. Slightly different at the time though the end result was much the same.
Deepingmind 1 year ago
@Deepingmind so true something cool about being human with minbari spirits maybe , being human in sci-fi is always interesting
VIV292 1 year ago
@VIV292 Agreed, being human in a sci-fi series is fun because it allows us to explore ourselves. Who we would want to be, who we think we would be and what we might truly be. Fiction, science or otherwise, is the mind's way of self exploration which B5 took to heart.
Deepingmind 1 year ago 4
@VIV292
As Delenn said, "Out of their differences comes symmetry, their unique capacity to fight against impossible odds. Herd them, and they only come back stronger"
As Londo said, "The Humans,I think, knew they were doomed, but where another race would surrender to despair, the Humans fought back with even greater strength. They made the Minbari fight for every inch of space... They were magnificent."
RCTPatriot75 11 months ago 2
@RCTPatriot75 It reminds me of the British attitude during the battle of Britain>Never give up
VIV292 11 months ago
@RCTPatriot75 "As Delenn said"
"As Londo said"
...
Can't you even think of your own comments to post, and not just repeat quotes?
Varrenify 11 months ago
Well, I never watched this... But this monologue definitely makes me want to.
Signemity 1 year ago
I find that showing your gun ports open as a sign of respect is a dumb concept... I wonder how many other wars were fought before in the last thousand years of their history.
race #1: Hello, nice to meet you.
race #2 : Hello, (gun ports open) nice to meet you too. Like my big guns pointing out at you?
race #1: HOLY FRAK!
jutau 1 year ago 4
@jutau Weeeeeelll... There's places in the Middle East today where not diving for cover when they start firing in your direction as you approach (while also loudly announcing your friendly intentions in their language) is a traditional way to signal your friendly intentions.
They didn't have them powered up; the prob was the one guy not following 1st contact protocol. Understandable on both sides; that's the real tragedy of it all.
KryssLaBryn 1 year ago
To quote "Matrix - Revolutions":
"If we´ll have to give these bastards our lifes... WE GIVE `EM HELL BEFORE WE DO!!!!"
KrautGoesWild 1 year ago
best speech ever, in recorded history
keski2 1 year ago 4
best speech ever
keski2 1 year ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Ridiculous. Like cavemen in a solar car. Yesterday's clichees in tomorrow's costumes. A GWB speech in the distant future? In the future there will be no military - or there won't be a future to begin with.
trakkaton 1 year ago
that made me cry......
rbdzntsfrlk 1 year ago 3
If we ever face annihilation by an alien armada in real life, they should play this.
GusF 1 year ago
I love this speech, the emotion in it and the trembling voice of the "president" give it a real quality that tugs at your heartstrings.
Humans were considered a decently powerful force, They had already proven themselves to have won a war by the time the movie stared and in the show they were a force to be reckoned with. The Minbari, were the "sleeping Giant" not understood by most races and universally feared. The Centari never challenged them, B5 was created to stop this from happening again.
AtrialQuartz 1 year ago 25
@AtrialQuartz that bitch was a coward
gell7 4 months ago
to qoute Colone Joshua Lawrence Chamberlien at the Battle of Gettysburg: FIX BAYONETS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The24Hourstolive 1 year ago
Well it they want to totally defeat us they better get us all because if
they dont in 200-300 years we will be back, children of a society that
will make Sparta look like a hippie community.
svartekaptenen 1 year ago
would you join this battle or run. i think i would fight. i would prefer to die and save all i love then to run away a coward. that is what makes us great, we can be brave when the night comes because we are the light.
championjdg 1 year ago
Give 'em cold steel!
PegasusViperAce75 1 year ago
@deep6625: the thing is that "Star Trek" holds its own too much because of nostalgia. Guess there wasn´t enough time for people become nostalgic for "Babylon 5", the producers might think.
VictorHugoBrazil 1 year ago
I wouldn't say that because I didn't watch star trek when I was growing up. I only started watching in more recent years so I'm not nostalgic at all for it and I think trek overall like TOS and TNG has held up over the years because of great stories, great characters and it's timeless exploration of the human condition.
mummra4ever 1 year ago
We started the war and the Minbari gave us an old fashion beating. Their technology is just to much. What a great series.
Larrsify 1 year ago
this is a powerfull speech and does speak to the hero in all of us, that the few sacrificing for the good of the many..is in the human race and i always thought the Minbari war of kill them all, was kind of..well...cowardly, by that i mean..you KNOW you are more powerfull..you KNOW that the "enemy" isnt going to be able to stop you ..and yet you just persist in killing..and destroying..it takes no strength to beat up someone weaker
highlandwolf01 1 year ago
That speech by the President made me cry when I first saw In the Beginning - and now, a decade or so since then, I still bloody cry.
Darkmind1970 1 year ago 2
This always brings tears to my eyes, the emotion in the presidents voice, "one last battle to hold the line against the night"...but I shudder with respect when the asian pilot goes away (to the hangars I presume). He walks as soon as the president tells them of the hundreds that can be saved by delaying the minbari (ie, acting as human shield) if only for ten minutes. That's all he needed to hear.
Corellian 1 year ago 4
@Corellian me to i know that this is in the begining and it is not "the twilight of the human race"but it still makes me cry. B5 makes me cry more than almost any other show. it is the most tragic story linear marcus londo
shellnet411 1 year ago 3
@Corellian: one of the strongest speeches ever. Next to the Babylon 5 mantra "Ivanova is God". :)
VictorHugoBrazil 1 year ago
Wow, I just realized this "Earth President" is also the woman who played Capt. Rachel Garrett from the "Enterprise C" in the Star Trek Next Generation episode "Yesterday's Enterprise" (imho the best episode from that or any other star trek series).
rfdarsie 1 year ago
Damn thats one moving speech.
TankCop 1 year ago 10
Greatest speech in history...
keski71 1 year ago 14
@keski71 Luckily it is not history and hopefully it will never be.
This is a contrived situation that promotes a mistaken form of hero worship. Actually I don't believe that was intended. The real heroes are the ones who look for a way out, a way to stop the killing. Unfortunately many viewers seem to think the violence, weapons fire and explosions are the main thing and they miss the point.
Whenever you are moved to tears and you don't know why, be careful. Someone is messing with your mind.
StimuLAZ 6 months ago
So you missed that whole "surrender and plea for mercy" part, eh?
troodon311 6 months ago
@troodon311 No I did not. It was made clear that the Minbari could not understand their messages. Did you miss what started the war? A captain that Sheridan referred to as "a loose cannon" made first contact. He arrived overconfident, lusting for medals, glory, career advancement and a chance to prove human superiority. When the situation didn't match his preconceptions, his paranoia and fear took control, if you can call it control.
Follow the whole story, not just the explosions and carnage.
StimuLAZ 6 months ago
Delenn and Lenonn both understood English by the time Sheridan and Franklin were sent on their secret mission - the Minbari knew what the humans were saying but just kept killing.
This speech is about the Battle of the Line, not about the first contact situation that ended with the death of Dukhat. The two situations are night and day.
If I were focusing on the "explosions and carnage" I would have uploaded that stuff, not a speech imploring people to sacrifice their lives for others.
troodon311 6 months ago
I only got into watching Babylon 5 due to watching 'In the beginning' on video back in the 90s, Great film.
DextorSunrunner 1 year ago 4
"we will stand fight and die untill the last transport has left earth."
willobi 2 years ago 6
"One last battle to hold the line against the night."
Makes me tear up every time.
BiffMP5 2 years ago 91
me too. and ive never even watched babylon 5.
merLin123a 1 year ago
@BiffMP5 i too like that line.and makes me emotional , the whole speech was good
highlandwolf01 1 year ago
@BiffMP5 Makes me tear up as well as i am a situation which is impossible and i cant get out of, i dont know,great speach,
paul
pscnu1 1 year ago
@pscnu1 Your reaction is understandable. I don't know what your situation is, but it is sad that you feel it is impossible and that you see no way out. I understand that you may see this fantasy as a parallel to your own situation.
May it comfort you to know that no actors were killed in the making of this movie. It should not comfort you to know that they deliberately evoke strong feelings to make the show popular.
StimuLAZ 6 months ago
Babylon 5, in my opinion, this is a brilliant visionary film, which is predicted to us over the future, confront Russia, Ukraine, Georgia.
Vir Cotto and Londo Mollari "Centaurus" Russian and Ukrainian, G'Kar "Narnia" Grusin
Biogem369 2 years ago
0:34 is closer to the mark. Weird to bring up on Christmas but...there you go!!!
pcgentile 2 years ago
Not that there is anything particularly funny about this clip but one little note of trivia is that one of the actors playing an EA trooper is, in fact, a porn star by the name of Steve St. Croix. When I first saw this years ago I did a double take and confirmed his ID on IMDB.
pcgentile 2 years ago
1:19?
Omithy 2 years ago
-The humans I think knew they were doomed. Where annother race would surrender to dispair, the humans fought back with even greater strength. They made the Minbari fight for every inch of space. In my life I have never seen anything like it, they would weep, they would prey, they would say goodbye to their loved ones, and then throw themselves without fear or hesitation into the very face of death itself, never surrendering.
CaptRedJack 2 years ago 8
I felt the very same...
...and then I remembered how the war started >_>.
tenou123 2 years ago
No one who saw them fighting against the inevitable could help but be moved to tears by their courage, their stubborn nobility. When they ran out of ships they used guns. When they ran out of guns they used knives..and sticks and bare hands. They were magnificent. I only hope that when it its my time I may die with half as much dignaty as I saw in their eyes in the end. They did this for two years, they never ran out of courage, but in the end they ran out of time.
CaptRedJack 2 years ago 9
This is moving to the point of being almost unwatchable. Look at the pilots - there's no false BS bravado about "whupping ET's ass", just the quiet, extraordinary dignity of human beings giving their lives for the greater good. I'm not the crying type, but every time I watch this I want to bawl my eyes out.
ConorLawler 2 years ago 48
you are very correct on that....this and the earth minbari war music affect me greatly as well....
LordAzanko 2 years ago
if you combined both it becomes moving to the point of becoming almost unwatchable....
LordAzanko 1 year ago
@ConorLawler - BS... no human sacrificed himself for "the greater good". He sacrificed himself for love. Love of his mother, his sweetheart, his children, even his friends. But never for some nebulous "greater good". It has always been so.
Read: Horatius at the Bridge.
Hiraghm 9 months ago
The series still gives me the goosebumps
geneariani 2 years ago 2
Hay it's the Captain of the Enterprise-C.
animeownage86 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
i hate the minbari. they became humans. because they are just as fucking blood thirsty.
PeteDragoon 2 years ago
An amazing piece of cinema. One of the few Babylon 5 pieces that I missed in my travels beween Canada and the Caribbean over the past several years. Thank you so much for posting this on youtube! And always thank you to JMS and crew for the creativity.
StargazerCaroline 2 years ago 2
The President mentioned loss of contact with Io. The Steel Brigade held the volcanic Jovian moon and the vital transfer point against the Minbari attack. Fifteen hundred of the Earth Alliance's finest ground troops braced for the hammer blow they knew was coming. When the dust had cleared and the Minbari had departed in the wake of their (inexplicable) surrender, barely 150 of the Steel Brigade were still walking, breathing or both. But they had held, unlike the Line...
NCTaikoDrumboy 2 years ago 4
Beautiful yet utterly poignant speech.
cannonski 2 years ago 7
In "The Coming of Shadows", the Minbari were the deciding factor that persuaded the Centauri Republic to let all the wounded return to Narn Homeworld.
The Earth Alliance together with the Minbari Federation are powerful enough to topple the Centauri Republic. Then again, the Minbari are powerful enough to lay waste to anything except the First Ones, of which they were the pawns of one... :p
Aldecoraziel 2 years ago
You mean when Morden and his associates helped again in the episode "The Coming of Shadows"? Or are you rather referring to "The Long, Twilight Struggle"? In "The Coming...", the Minbari added their desire to oversee everything was right, whereas in "Twilight Struggle", Londo immediately rebuffed anything Sheridan proposed. He even declared that 100 Narn are going to be killed for every murdered Centauri in the upcoming occupation of Narn Homeworld.
Aldecoraziel 2 years ago
I think the problem is that JMS was a little too human-centric. In a more realistic situation, Earth (and Narn) should have been in the League and not one of the five powers given their ages.
jamesholder13 2 years ago
I concur. It then culminates in humanity becoming the first race to achieve a status similar to the First Ones.
But that has always been a problem in scifi. Humanity is shown to be more special than anything else.
Aldecoraziel 2 years ago
I don't remember there being any reason to think humans reached a level akin to the First Ones before any of the other races - just that they eventually did reach that level.
troodon311 2 years ago 21
Straczinsky confirmed in the Usenet message group that humanity became the first race to achieve a status similar to the First Ones, followed by the Minbari.
Aldecoraziel 2 years ago 2
@troodon311
Humans weren't first from these young races to reach level of First Ones..Minbari were. Million years from now Centauri and Narn are still there in a way..but they aren't at "First One" level
kimnice 1 year ago
@troodon311
Humans or Minbari were the first
Such is word of god (JMS)
FireCrack 1 year ago
As a species, we are more special than anything else, and at the present time, it is the only way we can be portrayed in space/science fiction. Unless we are shown conclusive proof of other sentient life forms, we are, as it now stands, the only known sentient race in the universe. I only hope we are not, and in the future we CAN be portrayed as something less "special".
blagger56 1 year ago
@Aldecoraziel actually humanity and the mimbari by that time have pretty much become the same race
darthkarr 1 year ago
@Aldecoraziel Nope, the first were Minbari. It was with their help that Humans became the second, followed by many others shortly there after. Shortly in terms of the galaxy and some tens of thousands of years as it is.
Deepingmind 1 year ago
@Deepingmind Here are the very words of Straczinsky himself: "The Minbari eventually make it; the Narn and Centauri do not.
They don't die out, they just don't hit a state of First One-ishness,
which is darn close to immortality (barring violence)."
jms
Aldecoraziel 1 year ago
@Aldecoraziel thank you for supporting what I said.
Deepingmind 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Aldecoraziel " It then culminates in humanity becoming the first race to achieve a status similar to the First Ones."
Nah, you're pulling shit out of your arse with that comment. Who is to say the Minbari didn't get there first? 800,000 years is a big bloody gap from the end of season 4 to when Sol goes Nova.
Varrenify 11 months ago
Actually I think the humans were supposed to be fairly powerful, despite the recent loss to the Minbari. Remember how the Londo wasn't too eager to start a war with the humans when Sheridan told him Earth was sending observers to the colony the Centauri took from the Narn.
Plus Earth created and ran B5, of course they're going to be on its advisory council.
troodon311 2 years ago 9
Actually, Londo denied any request from the Earth Alliance sending observers, showing that Earth Force alone isn't powerful enough to threaten the Centauri Republic. Only when the Minbari Federation decided to join in the Earth Alliance demands for observer did the Centauri Republic back down and agreed to send all prisoners back to Narn Homeworld.
Aldecoraziel 2 years ago
@troodon311
Winning the Dilgar war made the EA a superpower. Just as WWII rose america from some little colony at the edge of the world to the most powerful nation on earth.
FireCrack 1 year ago
@FireCrack
Actually, the main reason for that effect was that the home turf fighting for the US was negligible compared to the other participants. Even Britain got a lot of its home territory, including its capital, trashed. The US production was not only not crippled but could be cranked up and in the end fill the void right after the war, having a foot in the door in most of the upcoming markets.
ohauss 1 year ago
@ohauss
It was exactly the same in the Dilgar war. The LONA (like Europe) was devastated, but EA space was basically untouched.
FireCrack 1 year ago
There "space" age means nothing. Before the Minbari War, the Earth allinace had several colonies, and hundreds of ships. The Non aligned World are a culmination of lesser races, And only become a somewhat fighting force till the Dilgar Invasion. The dilgar were only defeated because the Humans steped up.. The Leage of Non aligned worlds was formed after the dilgar defeat.
The humans ut up a HELL of a fight against the Minbari. NONE of the non aligned worlds could have lasted 2 years
bluntman1138 2 years ago 2
Hundreds of ships? I don't think you have taken into account that unlike the shitter star trek, Babylon 5 universe actually HAD commerce and considering how many millions of dollars are spent in building frigates (of now) how much would it cost to build a star battleship?
Hundreds is pretty far stretching their numbers. I would estimate at not more than 100 ships, not including passenger liners, cargo ships et cetera.
gribae 2 years ago
Taking into account Omega Destroyers, Hyperion Crusisers, Star Furies, and Star Fury Carrier ships.
An omega destroyer carried a squad of Star Furies, and was usually escorted by 2 hyperions. The Humans ahd over 100 capitl ships, throw in star furies as well, a few hundred of them, as they were garrisons for outposts and space stations.
bluntman1138 2 years ago
Actually. Back when the Dilgar was about to attack EA's Orion colonies with a fleed of 180 warships. The EA found out about it countered with 600 warships and thousands of Starfuries. So, EA do have more than just a hundred.
Cordar 2 years ago
I'd like to see the reference sourceof where you got your information before believing that was true
gribae 2 years ago
The general Wikipedia and The Babylon Project. Both included full if limited info on what happened during the war.
Because space superiority is the highest priority during an interstellar war. They may had invested the majority of the militaries budget in building fleets of warships. Control of space is most important during an interstellar war. If that was gone, anything prominent groundside would not be of much use at all. Since the enemy can simply bombard the planet from orbit.
Cordar 2 years ago 3
Then I'll cede to you that I was wrong. Thanks for the info!
gribae 2 years ago
@jamesholder13
Earth Alliance's status as "major power" is about resources. Few worlds on that League has more advanced technology than Earth (for example Vree and Hyach). Earth didn't have any major sentient races near by and had room to expand unlike so many on that League.
Narn's had room to expand when Centauri were declining and they also managed to invade some lesser worlds with using centauri technology.
kimnice 1 year ago
@jamesholder13 The Narn at that time were in no position to aid Earth, given the recent ending of the Centauri occupation. The best they could do was sell Earthgov weapons and ships, plus the Narn were looking for their own conquests, the oppressed making the best oppressors. The Centauri wouldn't risk angering the Minbari, and the Vorlons were busy elsewhere. Humanity's special status within the Minbari Religious Caste was unknown until the Battle of the Line and Sinclair's kidnapping.
AuntieDan 1 year ago
@jamesholder13 Thing is, Earth built the station, so of course they would be on the council. They probably put the narns on because they helped Earth in the war.
MrCanadianComedian 1 year ago
@jamesholder13 Not really. The League was a group of races allied together to protect themselves from Centauri and later Narn agression. You don't exactly invite an aggressor into your midst. Earth was friendly with the Centauri and felt that they could handle the Narns on their own. That and Earth was too independent to saddle itself to the obligations belonging to a group like the League would bring.
Fbueller129 1 year ago
@jamesholder13 membership in the league had nothing to do with relative age or technological sophistication. The Vree for instance were on par with the Minbari technologically, and in fact possessed teleportation technology that none of the other younger races had. The narn and earth alliance weren't in the league because they didn't need military protection or mutual defense they were both quite capable of defending themselves against anyone but the vorlons and possibly the minbari.
DevilDude912 1 year ago
@jamesholder13 The point behind how he showed Humans and Narn was because of both races ways of life. Where most races are happy to just stay small, Humans and Narn look to grow.
Deepingmind 1 year ago
@jamesholder13 "
You make great Sharks. We were once great Sharks." ,Londo
The humans were one of the younger races but gained respect and power when they defeated who the lesser races of the League couldn't, the Dilgar. The humans quickly grew their "sphere of influence' to rival many of the older races in size and scope. Technologically they were inferior to the Centauri, Narn and Minbari but they did have a respectable fleet. I think their real power was economically.
RCTPatriot75 11 months ago
@RCTPatriot75 that and the fact that no matter how many times they got knocked down, got the nose bloodied, or had enemy ships knocking on the front door did they give up. Despite all the vitriol that certain, rather significant, members of the Minbari sent towards the humans, I think that there was a grudging bit of respect, especially among those that fought at the 'Line'. That I think is what gave humans such an edge over the other younger races.
SgtSplatter782 11 months ago
@jamesholder13 What differences humans(and narns) from league races was resources and will to use them. They were more aggressive in their expansion. Also being major race isn't just about techonology(earth wasn't even close to best tech in any case). It's also about political influence. When Earth joined Dilgar war they brought enough resources and war knowledge(we fight a lot afterall) and helped to beat Dilgars. This resulted in political force they could use.
Khandor82 11 months ago
@jamesholder13 So when Humans said something the league tended to listen. As for Narns they got to be considered major race as they VERY aggressively built their military force strip mining their worlds on resources. He who has got lots of guns tends to be listened...Sure they might not be technologically that advanced(though they did reverse engineer lots of centauri stuff) but they got a LOT of that. LOT more than any of the league races.
Khandor82 11 months ago
Great speech. Had tears in my eyes.
Skyreaverl 2 years ago 2
You really don't know much about the sci-fi community, do you?
If memory serves me, this war could have been avoided, Gun ports open, misunderstanding ensues, Minbari ship takes a hit, Minbari take casualties, including leader Dukhat, It's what happened NEXT that caused the war: There was chaos and confusion on the flagship after the hit; junior officers needed direction. The only one in position to take action was Delenn, who gave the order. She was mad with grief, and declared jihad.
merloon 2 years ago 3
Not forgetting that even before the gun port incident, the Minbari accidentally, and without knowing, managed to disable the Earth Force jump drives with a single scan. (If I remember right)
ScreamingTc 2 years ago
I really wish this series received more credit in the sci-fi community
InTheMidst17 2 years ago 5