Gestalt therapy demonstration by Fritz Perls 1/2

[DrEdFeraco]

Fritz is hardly being confrontational--this woman most likely has a Borderline Personality. I've not seen many clients behave this way. Perhaps she is an aspiring actress?

[DrEdFeraco]

I find that being Eclectic works the best with a majority of my patients/clients.

[arlobrubaker]

Thank you for putting this up

[MrGrevy]

Perls is absolutely useless. He bounces around so much it's pathetic, goes tit for tat with the client and his theory is proven to NOT work. What a waste!

[solidsnake1447]

"I'm to interview a patientttttttt" lol

[MrGrevy]

@Raina430 Plenty of evidence to show therapy helps. In some cases more than medication. You'd have to read a little bit to know that, though.

[Raina430]

@MrGrevy hi, I deleted my comment, since I didn't realize how misleading it was. When I said " therapy? I meant that to me this video seemed more like mind games. I didn't mean that I don't like therapy! For sure, therapy helps many, and its great. I just didn't like this particular session. it didn't seem therapeutic to me, and felt like mind games. But that is just my opionion!

[MrGrevy]

@Raina430 Oh I agree. This is an example of an outdated, useless modality. You can see how confrontational and unfocused it is. It's ridiculous people actually practiced this way.

[Raina430]

@MrGrevy " confrontational and unfocused" is a good way to describe it. Therapy is something I have been interested in for a long time. Trying to unravel past programming is a lifelong task, for me anyway. It takes knowing about a lot of different kinds of therapy and other healing modes.

[beetbop1231]

Being that she is aware of the Counselor to begin with, initially falsifying the experience (maybe), it seems unlikely to me that she would willingly jump from "Why would you sit in the corner, how long would you stay there" from Perlz, to "Ah yeah well I used to do it when i was a kid and it is an area of safety in my past"

im not trying to hate on the techniques or anything, just opinion. Very open to comments for the record.

[TheCarlos64]

Perls is credited with the formation of gestalt but there were many others involved, not least his wife Laura.

If Perls were around today he simply would not have been allowed to practice in this way; these techniques are of use and are purposeful yet it is wise to remember that the majority of those seeking help are vulnerable and deserve a little more respect, empathy and honesty i.e. that they are involved in a collaboration with the therapist rather than a victim of therapy.

[Luciannaminx]

Does anyone know if I can get the transcript for this video? I can't decipher what is being said :/

[deyulaoshi]

@Luciannaminx Would recommend the book "Gestalt Therapy Verbatim" by Fritz Perls to you. I don't know if this sequence is included, but many that are similar - from the same setting. A good selection of transcripts and very lively - it's worth it.

[SamStoutisArrogant]

CRUEL THEATRE. Perls demonstrates his resentment disgust of human vulnerability and uses his intellect, education and status as therapist to convince patients they should give him permission to abuse and belittle them.

[verramz]

Fuk me, the pair of 'em should be more worried about lung cancer, the way they're  chuffin' the fags ten to the dozen.

[yanfex1]

metacomunicación

[OneDayWeAreFree]

I think his technique is useful for some people, and I like him. thanks for putting this up!

[solreymusic]

The intensely confrontational technique here can aggravate some patients, for sure. But it forces them to be conscious of suppressed feelings, it brings the unconscious to the surface. It is highly probable that Perlz is not coming from an empathic point, as did Rogers, but rather judgmental. After watching these interviews, I must admit that the Rogerian approach was the most confrontational, in fact, in his amazingly client's self centered way. Love hope and tears.

[robag88]

@solreymusic I'd say the Rogerian approach is judgemental. He assumes the client is unable to deal with the kind of practical confrontation average people deal with in the real world. People are more resilient than person centred therapy gives them credit. i remember watching the interview with Gloria after these sessions. She liked and disliked elements of both Rogers and Perls. In fact she actually told Rogers toward the end of the session that although he he was nice he wasn't helping her.

[solreymusic]

What attracts me to the Rogerian approach, is that of the endless acceptance the therapist practices thus allowing the unfoldment process that takes place in their clients, leading them toward their central self, awaking in the realization to their power at formulating their paradigms. If the therapist discovers a key (through transference), the skill is to have the client/patient discover it too. Its a beautiful game where both are winners. And truly very difficult to achieve mastery.

[robag88]

@solreymusic I agree there are certain types of problems that works with but i don't think it works as a catch all. Gloria obviously has issues with learned helplessness as an attention seeking function. The Rogers approach gives her the attention she wants, reinforcing the habit. There are plenty of situations in life where honest and direct challenging breaks through such barriers and creates change. We see it between straight talking friends, in relationships, in parenting and in court rooms.

[MrGrevy]

@solreymusic Actually it's just pandering and doesn't lead to any solutions, just more observation and insight. Not helpful, it just reinforces weakness.

[beetbop1231]

@solreymusic Completely agree with you. The core conditions of the Rogerian approach are unconditional possitive regard (love without guidelines/requirements), empathetic understanding and congruence (honesty). With these amazing and truly rare qualities being the fundamental basis of the relationship from the beginning, having embraced the counselor, it will lead to the client being a more autonomous person among many things. It doesn't work for everyone obviously, but no one method does.

[beetbop1231]

@robag88 You sound like your assuming that any therapy applied by a competent person can "help" anyone. For example, I have received Gestalt therapy and a Rogerian style therapy and they both worked to varying degrees for me. Personally I find that self discovery and understanding is easier to accept and learn under the atmosphere of Rogerian therapy. It is also the method I use with my clients and, like any and all variables, it is useful to some more than others.

[beetbop1231]

@robag88 In the description you make the assumption that Gloria hasent gained anything from her time with Rogers because she wasnt smiling. On the fact that her experience with these therapists is initially falsified, being that Gloria is aware of what these men are trying to accomplish, she tells Rogers "I want you to give me an answer, that is why I am here". Person centered therapy is not supposed to give advice, but to create a growth-encouraging and unconditional loving atmosphere.

[beetbop1231]

@robag88 I'd like to interject with regard to your comment on the Rogerian approach basically condescending people. That is by far not the case. A key aspect of Rogerian method is attitude based (obviously among scientific data, methods, techniques etc.) whereas gestalt therapy is without an attitude, it is quite harsh and focuses almost purely on confrontation. There are more aspects to people that beating out the truth. Rogers' method acknowledges this much better than most.

[MrGrevy]

@solreymusic Except there is no evidence his technique helps. How does insight lead to improvement? It really doesn't.

[corradi3]

He's the father of all trolls.

[shelleyandersen]

where did you manage to get this video from?

[MrParent007]

Dr. Perls, is teaching her to be assertive and stop hiding who she really is. She needs to make a decision about what part of her life she will choose to develop. The victim who is inadequate, or the survivor who overcomes her obstacles and doesn't need the permission of others to be in this world!!! Will She in her weakness... go back to her fearful victim state? or will she rise up and become a leader? Well, I think she won't become a leader, she'll stay about the same. Sorry.

[BananaSandwich1]

i wanna piss on this guys head

[niconikko]

to give a useful advice.. cut out your cigarettes

[pprincezz]

the therapist is labeling the client....I don't like this approach at all...if was me I would have left this session long time.

[autumn1605]

Living with the Gloria Films, reveals that Gloria was coerced by her therapist into saying that her interaction with Perls was the most effective. Her therapist was a student of Perls, information withheld from Rogers and Ellis. Gloria found her interactions with Rogers so helpful, she contacted him years later and they maintained correspondence until he died, which continued with his daughter Natalie. She described her interactions with Perls unpleasant and abusive.

[robag88]

@autumn1605 Striking up a friendship with a client isn't good therapy. Naturally she'll feel comfortable with the therapist who doesn't challenge her. I used to have clients try to get me to go for drinks (I always refused). Gloria told Rogers at the end that he wasn't helping her even though he was "a very nice man".

As for the biog, it was written by her daughter so not exactly impartial. And if the test conditions were really as you say then isn't that Dr Shostrom's responsibility/

[Mangina9000]

@robag88 Why is striking up a friendship bad therapy? I'm honestly wondering. I had a shrink who described long term professional relationships with some of his clients in a mentor-student capacity, sort of a trusted person or confessional outlet outside of the family that one could go to. I didn't really buy it, but apparently some therapists are close to their clients. Stripped of the shackled of "professionalism," why is this so frowned upon?

[robag88]

@Mangina9000 From my own experience I found a lot of people go to therapy who are lonely and looking for a friend. I think it's much more useful to help them develop the ability to go out and find lots of friends. Also I think having a longterm client therapist "friendship" encourages the client to continue being a client instead of living a normal healthy life. There may well be exceptions, but I don't think its healthy for the therapist to keep playing the therapist role either.

[MrGrevy]

@autumn1605 She obviously mistook his emotional pandering for "help".

[florydory]

This guy is a jerk.

[robag88]

@florydory He probably wouldn't care what you think as long as he was getting results. A lot of therapists need to be liked by their clients to feel like they're doing a good job.

[stiffybrian]

Go Fritz. So un PC to talk about 'patients' and 'manipulate' but he gets Gloria out of her phony learnt little girl corner towards being a functioning 30 yr old. She doesn't like it but it's growth. Rogers in comparison is mildly agreeable and in a way less Rogerian than Perls in that Perls enactment of unconditional positive regard includes a respect for the indomitable fighting qualities of the individual. Should one treat self actualisation with kid gloves or as being as tuff as old boots?

[robag88]

@stiffybrian Yeah I remember watching this on a counselling course. It was part of a set of three therapists working with the same woman - the other being Carl Rogers and Albert Ellis. Perls was the one getting results. I worked in social care and support for 13 years and saw time and gain how people don't get the necessary approach because of political "correctness". People are taught to see themselves as victims and to demand society hand everything to them on a plate. Tough love works.

[MrGrevy]

@robag88 Except this didn't work. It only angered Gloria. Gestalt doesn't work and research proves it.

[BigBrauner]

@stiffybrian Well, I don't know, but as a new MFT student I don't know much. Still, I like Adler's phrase: "Any teaching that cannot be given in a spirit of friendship is wrong teaching." I find Perls' challenges to Gloria tempting to emulate in that they seem to get her out of complacency, but I have to believe there is a way to challenge that isn't so directly combative. It might take a few more sessions, but I think it would have longer-lasting impact.

[skulljoint]

Right, shes not a phony.

Even though she clearly is.

[gjacob03]

Something Real: Have you ever looked into Bowen Family Systems Theory?

[gjacob03]

Something Real: Have you ever looked into Bowen Family Systems Theory?

[jakamo]

hes a cunt

[SillyWillyFan47]

Perls before swine

[combandpaper]

Any idea why she's come to see him? In other words, what issue does she want him to help her with? A therapist like this would really annoy me. He's not being very helpful. All he's doing is picking up on every little thing, and why??? 

[robag88]

@combandpaper She saw three very different famous therapists as part of the whole project. Lack of confidence, not standing up to authority etc were the basic reasons she gave to the other two guys. It's interesting that before she even verbalizes this Fritz is straight onto her playing the victim for attention and deals with that issue directly. There are a lot of folks who bounce around seeing multiple therapists for the attention.

[corradi3]

@robag88 I don't think she played the victim for attention. Letting free the "child" inside her was just a way she found to express her compassion and innocence. It's like when your girlfriend bites you and you don't want to bite her back 'cause you love her. So you play the victim not for attention, but to make her feel bad for doing it (in a romantic and innocent way). Althought I understand Fritz's technique, I think he was too cold with someone who was looking for compassion.

[samuelsixvids]

Fritz is gangsta

[TheJabberwock]

I love that the lady sits down and immediately lights a cigarette.

[dkuyk91]

I have never seen a demonstration like this before, but I think its fascinating. It's amazing how he gets her completely ruffled just by pointing out how obviously phony she is acting.

[ccakiestca]

@dkuyk91 and hor is she being phony?

[SomethingReal1119]

Carl Rogers, imho, developed the most effective psychotherapy techniques. All this other stuff, Freud, gestalt, cognitive behavioral, etc etc etc.... doesn't hold a candle to self actualization/interpersonal/cl­ient centered. This of course is my own opinion based on my own experience/research. And every person is different, some approaches work diff for diff ppl. But thanks for putting Fritz up here! :0)

[robag88]

@SomethingReal1119 Thanks. I find Rogers' "person-centered" approach is good for attaining the client's approval of the therapist and for making the client conscious, to a limited degree, of their thoughts and feelings., but I think its application is limited. Getting the client to "offload" can go on for all eternity if the therapist doesn't help them find an effective intervention. Sometimes they need an outright argument or an explicitly provided problem-solving strategy.

[TheEmotionMachine]

@SomethingReal1119 I think all those techniques have something to offer. Rogers' unconditional positive regard can be useful for helping some people build self-esteem, but some people need to have their buttons pushed a bit. CBT is really useful for discovering unhelpful beliefs and thinking patterns. And merely giving positive regard to others faulty thinking promotes them to continue those same patterns. I think it's probably best that we mix-and-match what works. No 1 theory is 100% correct.

[MrGrevy]

@TheEmotionMachine CBT has been proven most effective, hands down.

[aimz877]

@SomethingReal1119 dont be too quick to discredit the other schools of therary. many studies trying to determine the best theory have failed to find consistant differences in outcome between them. this is called the dodo bird hypothesis (look up if you want more info). in the end, i think it comes down to the client and what is best fit for them. basically as TheEmotionMachine said no therapy is 100% correct and we should (to some degree) be able to mix and match to fit the client.

[celestial84]

@SomethingReal1119 To say that they don´t hold a candle is to misinterpret what Rogers said, I believe that each and every one of the psychotherapy techniques cover a certain aspect of the psyche that another one doesn't. Rogers talked a lot about integration, not only of the mind but of everything else, to discredit anyone theory is to reduce your possibilities. To find a way to integrate everything is expanding you possibilities. Just remember the discussion between Rogers and Skinner

[MrGrevy]

@SomethingReal1119 Research doesn't support that view at all. CBT is the king of results, no debate on that. Client centered is unskilled, emotional silliness.

[SomethingReal1119]

@MrGrevy Yes, you are right, IF you believe that human behavior can be completely "quantified". But the thing is....it CANNOT. Our minds are infinitely more complex than those of lab rats or Pavlov's dogs. CBT works for some people and some problems. But, I don't feel that it is the best therapy for ALL. And there's been research done to show that many clients don't stick with it for very long. Like I said, it works well for some personalities, but for others, it is useless. ^_^

[skinnytokerj]

Is Perls the model for Ken Kesey's Klaus Woofner in Demon Box: An Essay? He features in two of Kesey's shorts in the Demon Box collection and is obviously a venerated character. Thanks for the upload.

[TheRawliver]

Very interesting stuff bro.

[rey777777]

I Love It!!!! supercool

[juffan]

I've seen this in clinical psychology class. It all starts with the cigarette

[TaffyRaphie]

very interesting...

[Electrorules]

Great upload Rob.