I would not recommend you to jump into fire now and burn yourself to experience the punishment in hell. I say this, you all still have time to repent. Go now and repent all your sins and ask forgiveness from God. And lead a good, peaceful and happy life. Life in HEAVEN is a wonderful life and should be experienced by all of us. We have the right to live in HEAVEN. Its our home. In order to get there we know what we have to do.
What you have to do is switch on the water heater for about 45 minutes and try taking bath under the hot shower. It will burn your skin. The moment the hot water touches your skin you will jump out of the shower. Now think of similar situation in hell where the fires will be much hotter and you will be burning in that fire throughout your life without being killed and you cannot do anything else but keep screaming for help and asking forgiveness.
So people, all I want to say is that there is God and there is Evil. We have to decide what we do next, whether right or wrong. At the end of the world or Judgment Day satan won’t be there to rescue you. Instead he will dump you in the fires of hell. If you think that fire in hell won’t burn you because you are satan’s believer or worshipper then you are wrong. All of you have water heaters in your house right?
Both God and satan can take control of our conscience depends on whom we choose to give it to. For example: you are a married person and one day another person outside your marriage enters your life, you know it is wrong to have relationship with this person. Your conscience is telling you. But still in order to fulfill your emptiness or pleasure you have relation with the person. This is how you give way for satan to enter your life.
Therefore it is also true that there is some force that drives you to do good and force that drives you to do bad. If you don’t know what is right and what is wrong then you are not human instead you are just an animal. What is that drives you to do good or bad ? Its your conscience. This conscience is given to us by God. When Eve disobeyed God, she came to know what is good and bad. Through her we also came to know of it.
No one came forward. Each and every one of them returned to their homes. Jesus himself has not sinned. So why didn’t He pick up the stone and throw at the prostitute? This shows that our Lord Jesus is ever forgiving. He knows that the prostitute had sinned. But He did not condemn her. Instead He told her to go and not to sin again.
Now for people who still thinks I am nonsense, listen to this. You all believe there is good and bad. You know what is good and what is bad.
Don’t be so haste in deciding that God is not answering your prayers. He will act only when the time is right. He gives you what you need and not what you want. He knows what is right for you and what is wrong. Some of you must have read the story of Jesus rescuing a Prostitute from a mob who were trying to stone her to death in the Bible. What did Jesus do? He told the people that if anyone was there in the crowd who has not sinned can be the first one to throw the stone at the prostitute.
now falling back on every side like sparks in a huge fire, without weight, and amid shrieks and groans of pain and despair, which horrified us and made us tremble with fear.” All the non-believers and sinners, you all have a chance to redeem yourselves in the eyes of God. God created you and he loves you all very dearly. If we call to God for his forgiveness He will forgive us infinite number of times. He won’t get tired of our prayers. He will listen to our prayers.
All of the 3 secrets happened as foretold. The HELL they saw was unforgiving. This is how one of the child described what she saw "Our Lady showed us a great sea of fire which seemed to be under the earth. Plunged in this fire were demons and souls in human form, like transparent burning embers, all blackened or burnished bronze, floating about in the conflagration, now raised into the air by the flames that issued from within themselves together with great clouds of smoke,
This is for people who don't believe in God or who are still going in the path of sin. I believe in God. I hope you have all heard of the Miracle of Fatima in Portugal, when Mother Mary appeared to the 3 children. These children were small around 10 years of age at that time. They were not mature at all. So why should they go and tell the people who lived in Fatima that they have seen Mother Mary and that She had told them 3 secrets and also she also gave them a vision of HELL.
@fdasherv The part of religious brainwashing has worked quite well with you! What are you scared of? Your children are safer with someone how is not prejudiced towards any religion, so they could make up their own mind. That's why we are the people who can actually make this consideration!
@WoodJetProductions That's great. Good on you. In the meantime, however, stay away from our children, our schools, and our science textbooks and we'll get along just fine.
You have failed to see that the Jesus story was used back then for manipulation and population control by or for the Romans.Moise for the Egyptians. It was much more successful back then. It is continuing to this day. Want to know the reason ? Ask yourself.
We have had thousands of years to prove what cannot be proven.
______
The Development of Beliefs Through the Ages!
Scholars are agreed that religious beliefs have always been intertwined with human life. However, their opinions differ concerning the fundamental roots of religion and the factors that have played a primary role in its establishment and development. Their judgments, in this respect, are generally based on studies of superstitious religions and primitive
@Sakedrinker007 Then how can you delude yourself and believe that hydrogen and oxygen, electrons and protons, should first produce themselves, then be the source for all other beings, and finally decree the laws that regulate themselves and the rest of the material world?
@1tabligh Let me ask you one thing, if god existed would he accept all those deaths related to his religion? Is their any solid proof (the bible isn't solid proof) that god (or any god) acutally exist/existed?
Without doubt, one of the factors in the emergence of anti-religious ideas and a phalanx of deniers of God, has been the false teachings, the inadequacies and the intellectual perversions of the followers of some religions. The peculiarities and separate characteristics of each religion must, therefore, be individually examined when studying the reasons that have led men to adhere to that religion.
@1tabligh We have had thousands of years to prove what cannot be proven. Althought we might never have an answer to what must be the hardest question we have ever known, we know as a fact that we can't say something is wrong nor right if we do not have any solid proof that would solve it.
beliefs, with the result that their conclusions are, in the final analysis, defective and illogical.
Western intellectuals were aware only of the superstitious aspect of false religion and how the established dogmas of religion lacked all logical basis, so they had no hesitation in condemning religion as such to be baseless. Their judgment was based on their discouraging experiences with their own religion, and it could not fail, then, to be hasty, unrealistic, irrational and illogical.
It is true that certain religions, lacking a connection with the principles of revelation, have been influenced in their appearance and growth by the social environment and similar factors. However, it is illogical to ascribe the foundation of all faiths and religious tendencies to material or economic circumstances and demands, to fear of the terrifying forces of nature, to ignorance or to considerations rejected by science.
@holyjesuswashere How can the atheists delude themselve and believe that hydrogen and oxygen, electrons and protons, should first produce themselves, then be the source for all other beings, and finally decree the laws that regulate themselves and the rest of the material world?
How can it be supposed that belief in the existence of God is the acceptance of contradiction, whereas belief in the uncaused nature of an effect such as matter is not contradictory?
How could it be believed that matter should itself be the origin of millions of attributes and characteristics and thus be the equivalent of the purposeful, wise and all-knowing Creator?
@1tabligh How can one person create everything... How can one person be the reason why we are here. How can one person create planets and universes. Why, if Jesus is our savior, hasn't stopped all this madness? Why do so many people die everyday. Why are there poor people. If one person was able to create everything, how come he can't stop all this? It wouldn't be that hard... Heck he created rocks, trees, humans animals... creating peace would be a walk in the park.
@1tabligh the bible doesnt contradict anything nor does it contradict history if your a real scientist youd know not to jump to conclusions without solid proof if you truyly want to know then make google your friend
That's not for you to decide, rather it's the readers to decide!
The area of disagreement between Islam and Christianity, concerning Jesus, includes the following points:
1. Although Islam accepts the holiness of Jesus, it denies his divinity. According to the teaching of Islam, Jesus is no deity. He is not God, nor is he united with God. He is worthy of reverence and great respect, but he is not worthy of worship.
Islam is uncompromising in its Monotheism. God is only One, and there is no God but He, the Almighty, the Ever-Living, the Self-Subsistent, the Infinite in life, knowledge, and power. Jesus is not ever-living. He was born less than 2000 years ago, and according to the gospels, he died after a very short life. He is not almighty because he was a subject of persecution; nor was he infinite.
He could not be the Creator of the world because the world is over four billion years old,while he was born less than two thousand years ago. He is not worthy of worship because he himself was a humble worshipper of God.
2. He is not a son of God. God does not have any son or child, because He is above that. Bodily parenthood is inconceivable in His case because He is not physical. Spiritual parenthood also is not conceivable, because He is the Creator of every spiritual and material being.
@1tabligh all that is highly disputable even the facts about the world being very old believe me ive heard enough you can always google this stuff in the form of a question in reality you can only trust your own opinion if thats what you believe then so be it everyone has the freedom to choose but ill let you know know i will choose to believe that god came and became a man and thats the only physical proof youll get before his return when itll be too late
@matrixlone "And (they) impute falsely, without knowledge, sons and daughters unto Him. Glorified be He and high exalted above (all) that they ascribe (unto Him). The Originator of the heavens and the Earth!
How can He have a child when there is no consort for Him, when He created all things and is Aware of all things?
Such is God, your Lord. There is no God save Him, the Creator of all things, so worship Him. And He taketh care of all things." Qur'an 6:100-102
And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; the Lord our God is one Lord:" (Mark 12:29) He did not say Hear, O Israel; the Lord **YOUR** God is one Lord:" (Mark 12:29)
He said Hear, O Israel; the Lord **our**(including himself) God is one Lord:" (Mark 12:29)
I have 3 the bibles, different versions and all say OUR and look it up on internet it says OUR!
@xxwaterboy1xx Jesus is described as the "Word of God".
______
When the angels said: O Mary, surely God gives you good news with a Word from Him (of one) whose name is the '. christ, JESUS son of Mary, worthy of regard in this world and the hereafter and of those who are made near (to God).
She (Mary) said: My Lord! when shall there be a son (born) to I me, and man has not touched me? He said: Even so, Allah creates what He pleases; when He has decreed a matter, He only says to it, Be, and it is.
The Quran 3 : 47
Wonderful Originator of the heavens and the earth, and when He decrees an affair, He only says to it, Be, so there it is.
"...Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of god..." The Quran (4:171)
Say ye: "We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them: And we bow to Allah (in Islam)."
It´s pretty narrow minded to say we are just a brain. How do you explain the need to love someone or something outside ourselfs? To identify with someone outside ourselfs? The whole concept to adore, worship and the desire to love and be loved is far more complicated then to explain it with a brain-faith...If we are humble there is much more to discover I think. If God exist and we think of Him as a Father, the whole image of Him can only be explained by those who are His children, right?
Neurology has such massive implications for philosophy, that the relative lack of discussion on the subject concerns me. It should be totally rearranging people's theistic beliefs. For example, the afterlife is surely impossible, since our memories, emotions and thoughts can all be observed in the brain, and the brain stays here when we die, making it impossible to "take your mind with you" when you die, since it was 100% functions in the brain.
Actually no science can prove that God doesnt exist, because the Bible is so accurate that it cannot be proven wrong, also if it really was a big bang as some think, how would humans come to be and if it were monkey how did monkeys come to be. And space is so accurate so precise that if it just appeared even a meter away from its position now, we wouldnt exist because the lack of sun or too much sun, space was made so accyrate that someone must have been there to make it.
The bible is not one book. It is a collection of 66 books written over a period of 1600 years( approx 40 generations) Written by approx. 40 authors from every walk of life. The views and experiences of all these people as well as other wittnesses have been put into one volume for ease of reading only. Over this time the theme or message does not change. How much more evidence do you need??
How arguments about The Non Existence of god is pointless, yet the argument is on a globe scale and throughout history, as long as people say there is a god, there will be others to say there is not, its pointless to say god exist without proof of existence.
@llGemini Then how can the atheists delude themselve and believe that hydrogen and oxygen, electrons and protons, should first produce themselves, then be the source for all other beings, and finally decree the laws that regulate themselves and the rest of the material world?
Some brainless atheists regard matter as independent and imagine that it has itself gained this freedom and elaborated the laws that rule over it.
But how can they believe that hydrogen and oxygen, electrons and protons, should first produce themselves, then be the source for all other beings, and finally decree the laws that regulate themselves and the rest of the material world?
@1tabligh Youre absolutely right. Silly atheists for believing matter created itself. Obviously it was a magical being that swung his magical wand and created everything, and let everything else from that point on run its own course.
@numbcore Then how can the atheists delude themselve and believe that hydrogen and oxygen, electrons and protons, should first produce themselves, then be the source for all other beings, and finally decree the laws that regulate themselves and the rest of the material world?
Wonderful Originator of the heavens and the earth, and when He decrees an affair, He only says to it, Be, so there it is.
The Quran 2 : 117
She (Mary) said: My Lord! when shall there be a son (born) to I me, and man has not touched me? He said: Even so, Allah creates what He pleases; when He has decreed a matter, He only says to it, Be, and it is.
@1tabligh Go to the laboratory and take a jar full of nothing and see if god magically creates a universe into the jar. Come back when you have a jar with a little universe in it.
@numbcore If you will still persist in your ignorance at least assure me as to when this *universe * created itself-whether it did it before it came into existence, or afterwards?
If you say afterwards, your assertion is absurd. Because it is impossible for a thing to create its own self when it was already created.
The purpose of your assertion would be that the *universe * made itself twice. It would mean that its first endeavours consisted in creating itself, and when it was quite ready and created, it created itself again. This is the most *absurd* and impossible theory-the acquisition of what is already acquired.
If you say that it created itself before it came into existence, it is really *stupid*. Because it was absolutely nothing before it came into existence.
@1tabligh ehh I didnt say that nothing creating something was a good theory...I said nothing about it. You put those words in my mouth, you assume I think nothing created something, because I call the god/magic theory absurd.
What I clearrrrly said, was that your god/magic theory is easily just as absurd, as nothing creating something.
@numbcore Is it not more logical to posit the existence of intelligence, will and planning in the creation of and ordering of the world than to attribute creativity to matter which lacks intelligence, thought, consciousness and the power to innovate?
@1tabligh Nobody is claiming that nothing created something. Some people state that they just dont know, but dont believe in a god.
Scientists think there was "some" thing before the big bang they dont know what that was yet, but nobody claims that nothing created something. Hundreds of years ago people thought god did all kinds of things like rising the sun and moon, we later found out it happend by itself. I think one day we will find out more about the start of the universe.
@numbcore Belief in the existence of a wise creator is without doubt more logical than faith in the creativity of matter, which has neither perception, consciousness, nor the ability to plan; we cannot attribute to matter all the properties and attributes of intelligence that we see in the world and the ordering will that it displays.
Before he enters the realm of science and knowledge with all its concerns, man is able to perceive certain truths by means of these innate perceptions. But after entering the sphere of science and philosophy and filling his *brain* with various proofs and deductions, he may forget his natural and innate perceptions or begin to doubt them. It is for this reason that when man moves beyond his innate nature to delineate a belief, differences begin to appear.
One of the most destructive and misleading factors in thoughts concerning God is to restrict one's thought to the "logic" of the empirical sciences and to *fail* to recognize the *limits* and boundaries of that "logic".
Is that which is necessary in essence and which is considered the first source of existence matter itself or something else beyond the limits of matter?
@1tabligh Oh my fucking god. Are you this stupid really? You cant even think for yourself. It suddenly took you much longer to come back to me, and you came back with copied texts. Im arguing with you, its not that I dont understand your ridiculous texts, I cant be bothered with arguing with the whole internet. And you even have the nerve to accuse me of not understanding this? Wow what an utter idiot you are, crawl back under your rock.
@1tabligh I posed my arguments against what you were saying. You didnt know what to say back. So you send me some almost unrelated texts that just speaks of god in general.
The text you sent also contains no questions, yet you ask me to answer the questions.
You then try to insult me on the basis of nothing. You lost.
Should the scientist, who is aware of the natural causes and of the factors determining each step of creation towards perfection, of mankind's evolution, of the minute accuracy and exactitude that rules every change in the nature that surrounds us, come to believe that these wondrous laws and amazing interactions have somehow *fortuitously* emerged out of *mindless* matter?
Deluded atheist looks at the world with BOTH eyes *closed* and, as a result, are unable to answer ALL the questions!
@1tabligh You didnt even make an arguement against what I was saying. Your dumb copied text was just about god as a creator, in general. I bet that even I understand that text better than you do yourself ...
@1tabligh You are right, there is no reason why a scientist SHOULD believe that the universe (or series of universes) never had a beginning and that out of an infinity of possible universes we live in one which supports life and the evolution of humans just because if it didn't, we wouldn't be here to talk about it, or at least not in this form. BUT, the point is that a scientist COULD believe that. While it may sound absurd, supernatural, it is no more so than God, so god is not necessary.
@LaserBlowFish Exactly. Thats basically what I told him. What does he do? He copies text from islamic sites (i checked with google, it was obvious anyway). The texts dont even really make sense in the context of what we are speaking of, it just states some things in his favour using pseudo intellectual language.
@LaserBlowFish Then how can the atheists delude themselve and believe that hydrogen and oxygen, electrons and protons, should first produce themselves, then be the source for all other beings, and finally decree the laws that regulate themselves and the rest of the material world?
@1tabligh same reply as above .. if you allow infinity, try rolling a die an infinite number of times and you will get a universe where hydrogen and oxigen and whatever complexity you can imagine, exists.
@1tabligh And before you say "how dare i say that God is absurd", think of this: In order for god to have created the universe it would itself need to be timeless and spaceless, essentially infinite. If you allow such beings to exist then you must also allow the possibility that the universe itself is infinite. Nomatter how astronomically improbable something may seem, if you roll a die an infinite number of times, you WILL eventually get any result you can think of.
Since the chain of causality cannot recede into infinity, they can answer only that matter is an eternal and timeless entity for which no beginning can be posited: matter is non-created, has no beginning or end, and its being arises from within its own nature.
This means that the materialists accept the principle of eternity and non-origination; they believe that all things arose out of eternal matter and that being arises from within the very nature of matter, without any need for a creator.
@1tabligh while you may be right about the chain of causaility and i pretty much agree with the rest of your post, I just have to reiterate that using the argument that "complexity can only rise from creation", means it should also be applicable to God, being at least as complex as the universe to have created it, unless you also assert that God is not subject to logic, which again compounds the case that you can imagine similarly absurd reasons for things we just don't know.
@1tabligh and i will preempt you again in trying to use William Lane Craig's "reasoning" to counter this argument. He said that if you think of God as the best explanation for the universe then you don't need an explanation for the explanation. Well, in fact, in order to actually prove something you DO. Does this mean science has never and never will prove any of its theories ? Yes, and it doesn't bother me as long as it predicts the future accurately enough.
@1tabligh oh and while i'm on the topic of predicting the future .. God does NOT predict ANYTHING falsifiable, therefore the scientific method states you should at least be skeptical about it. How can something like that be a "best explanation" for anything ?
@LaserBlowFish In just the same way that deluded atheist regards matter as eternal, believers in God attribute eternity to God. Belief in an eternal being is then common to materialist and religious philosophers: both groups agree that there is a primary cause, but believers in God regard the primary cause as wise, all-knowing, and possessing the power of decision and will, whereas in the view of the materialists, the primary cause has neither consciousness, intelligence, perception, ...
@1tabligh no .. they (atheists who are not deluded, but i agree that you might be able to find even a reasonable amount of deluded ones) do not claim that they know how the universe began .. they just regard its state as unknown. Just because they BEHAVE as if they were convinced that god doesn't exist, does not imply that they are. The fact that there is no PROOF for God, (nor for its nonexistence) is only ONE of many reasons someone might choose to to behave that way.
nor the power of decision. Thus, the removal of God in no way solves the problem posed by eternal being.
Moreover, matter is the locus for motion and change, and its motion is dynamic and situated within its own essence. Now, essential motion is incompatible with eternity, and matter and essential stability are two mutually exclusive categories that cannot be fused in a single locus. ...
@LaserBlowFish Very nice reactions to his comments. But he will just come back at you with more copyings from al-islam (dot) org. Funny thing is that those copyings will probably pose "arguements" that you have just refuted, but nonetheless he will post it, because he doesnt understand any of this himself ..
I have had discussions with other muslims that did the exact same thing. Meanwhile seeming under the impression that they have the intellectual highground. Its pathetic imo.
@1tabligh i'm sorry, i don't claim to be more intelligent than a tic-tac so please tell which question did i dodge ? To me it honestly seems i'm answering all of them ..
@LaserBlowFish How could some of the scientists permit themselves to make a claim that would necessitate knowledge as extensive as the scheme of the universe, when their knowledge of the total scheme of being is *close* to zero, when confronted with a whole mass of unknowns concerning this very earth and tangible, lifeless matter, let alone the whole universe?
@1tabligh "How could some of the scientists .." i already replied to that in my post beginning with "no .. they (atheists who.." essentially saying that no, they just do not say that, true/false/unknown are three different things and the existence of God is NOT TRUE, it is NOT FALSE, IT IS UNKNOWN since all arguments to the contrary fail and i dealt with the kalam cosmological argument in my posts "You are right, there is no reason..." and "while you may be right about"
@1tabligh more on "How could some of the scientists.." is that this claim that it is "unknown" is realy not that hard to prove, it is simply a fact in logic that if something cannot be proven to be true OR false THEN it is unknown .. this applies to anything, even something as vast as the universe, as long as it is governed by logic .. which it may not be as i said, but then you get into absurdities very fast
@LaserBlowFish All beings were originally non-beings; they were non-existent, and then they became existent. Deluded atheists wish to say that the energy/matter/univers/natural forces/ are eternal, but this notion is incorrect for the following reasons:
First, if the material energy/matter/univers/natural forces/ are eternal, it follows that an eternal being should be subject to change and cessation, which is impossible. ...
@1tabligh "it follows that an eternal being should be subject to change and cessation" .. why would that follow ? .. as far as we know, the laws of physics never change (or at least that view is consistent with all observations thus far) so if the laws of physics state that matter constantly comes into existence and vanishes then it is not required to be eternal and there is no contradiction .. in other words, in an universe where infinity exists, most things may still be finite
@LaserBlowFish We say, then, that the existence of a thing is not possible without a cause of a deficient thing, that is, whose fate is in the hands of its cause and whose permanence is dependent on the existence of its cause. This does not apply to a being that is conscious of its reality and exhibits no trace of defect and limitation.
@1tabligh "This does not apply to a being that is" i already replied to a similar claim in "while you may be right about the chain" .. what you are doing is saying that in the world of God there is no logic, no causality .. but again if you think it is possible for something to exist without causality, then why not just say that simply the laws and constants of physics are "eternal and without cause" ? it is just as valid or absurd, depends how you look at it
@1tabligh "All beings were originally non-beings; they were non-existent, and then they became existent." .. we don't know that .. all beings that we see around us seem to have become existent yes .. but that does not mean that there cannot exist other beings that are eternal .. and those beings could be personal meaning that yes God may exist and there is no way to prove he does not .. but they may be impersonal making it impossible to prove God exists
@1tabligh "Come back when you get something out of nothing!" .. look at the ''A universe from nothing' video at 20:54 .. there you have a PICTURE of something coming from nothing :) .. they did the experiment in the lab and proved that image is one of the most accurate prediction of physics
If you will still persist in your ignorance at least assure me as to when this *universe * created itself-whether it did it before it came into existence, or afterwards?
If you say afterwards, your assertion is absurd. Because it is impossible for a thing to create its own self when it was already created.
@1tabligh "when this *universe * created itself" ..You asked me for some "thing" to be created from nothing and I gave you an example. It is not a universe, it is just matter. This is only an analagy. Given the laws of physics, where there was no matter previously, matter appeared. My only point was that things you consider to be absurd ARE possible. God is absurd (illogical) but possible, so is the statement that the laws of physics have no cause, their existence being beyond logic.
@LaserBlowFish there was no matter previously, matter appeared.
_____
Where did it come from?
Was it from your....?
Did matter appeared in YOUR...?
Where did you pull that from?
Matter has different aspects and dimensions; it is immersed in quantity and multiplicity; and it acquires its various dimensions by means of attributes and properties. The necessary being, by contrast, is free of all such properties.
@1tabligh it did not come from anywhere, while energy can transform into matter, there was no energy there to be transformed.. it's just that it cancels out because antimatter was also formed .. and yes this happens all the time everywhere, even where you are, inside you even, it's just that you cannot see it without lab equipment .. if you want to know more about this then ask a physicist, but it is true, it's been tested many times
@LaserBlowFish where there was no matter previously, matter appeared.
_____
That means it had a beginning in time when it "appeared"!
Therefore it can't be eternal!
You have just *expelled* matter from the stronghold of eternity. YOU not only proves the createdness of the world but also bears witness that the world came into existence at a given time.
@1tabligh "Therefore it can't be eternal!" I never said matter was eternal, in fact I explicitly said, and proved, that it was NOT. The laws of physics however CAN be eternal and beyond logic and the universe can be a simple result of the laws of physics.
@LaserBlowFish The laws of physics however CAN be eternal
____
And where did you pull that from?
The second principle of thermodynamics, entropy or the decline of thermal energy, teaches us that although we cannot fix a date for the appearance of the world, the world certainly did have a beginning. The heat in the world is gradually decreasing and falling, like a piece of molten iron that gradually diffuses its heat in the air until finally the heat of the iron will be ...
@1tabligh "And where did you pull that from?" .. nowhere really, i "concocted" it .. just like you "concocted" God to explain things you cannot explain otherwise
@LaserBlowFish We see, then, that the natural sciences have ***expelled "The laws of physics" /matter/energy*** from the stronghold of eternity. Science not only proves the createdness of the world but also bears witness that the world came into existence at a given time.
identical with that of the objects and the air surrounding it.
If there were no beginning or point of departure for the world, all the existing atoms would have dissolved and been transformed into energy an infinite number of years ago. In the course of a very long past, the heat of the world would have come to an end, for matter, in the course of its successive and continuous transformation, is transformed into perishable energies ...
It is not possible for all the energy dispersed to be transformed anew into matter and mass comfortable to the world of being.
In accordance with the principle just mentioned, once usable energy is exhausted, chemical action and reaction can no longer take place. But given that chemical action and reaction do take place that life is possible on the earth, and that a huge body like the sun is divisible each day and night into three hundred thousand million tons, it is clear that the world..
The death of planets and stars, the disappearance of suns, is a proof of death and mutation in the existing order; they show that the world is advancing towards non-being and an inevitable conclusion.
We see, then, that the natural sciences have ***expelled "The laws of physics" /matter/energy*** from the stronghold of eternity. Science not only proves the createdness of the world but also bears witness that the world came into existence at a given time.
@1tabligh "***expelled "The laws of physics" /matter/energy***" .. you inserted that there, and it is a mistake .. the laws of physics are NOT the same as matter / energy .. matter and energy are quantities manipulated by said laws .. it is a widely accepted that the laws of physics have NOT changed at all since the beginning of the universe, and it is possble, although impossible to prove, that they are in fact eternal
@LaserBlowFish and it is possble _____ "and it is possble"? You are not sure? 1 What? 2 conjecture? 3 delusion? 4 hyprocracy? 5 ignorance? 6 arrogance? 7 etc?
@1tabligh "A conjecture is a proposition that is unproven but appears correct and has not been disproven" 1. the existence God is also proposition 2. I have heard many "proof" for god, but they all fail logically, therefore it is unproven 3. it does appear to correct to believers at least 4. you cannot disprove God because God is by definition unfalsifiable 5. THEREFORE .. God is a conjecture
Your delusions that science has put out the notion of God is purely *rhetorical* and has nothing to do with logical method, because even thousands of scientific experiments could not possibly suffice to demonstrate that no non-material being or factor exists.
Your claim is nothing more than a *fanatical* illusion based on unproven theories. Views such as these derive directly from a system of thought centered on materialism; within it, ....
@1tabligh "because even thousands of scientific experiments could not possibly suffice" no, I have proven God "has nothing to do with logical method" simply by contradiction 1. suppose God does have something to do with the logical method
2. assuming logic, everything must have a cause 3. god does not have a cause 4. THEREFORE, by contradiction God "has nothing to do with logical method"
@1tabligh also, i said that "god does not have a cause" and then you can say "but how do i know God does not has a clause ?" and the answer is I don't but my conclusion still stands. Suppose God has a cause, it's possible, but then if you're assuming logic then that cause must itself have a cause, and the further, the cause of the cause must have a cause, and the cause of the cause of the cause .. even if you allow such an infinite regression, that itself is illogical .. so God MUST be absurd
@1tabligh also I should clarify "assuming logic, everything must have a cause" .. in fact it should "everything EXCEPT an axiom (= conjecture) must have a cause". The point is that in logic you always presuppose a set of axioms and then you can ask questions of the form "does X derive from that set ?". Without axioms you really cannot prove anything. God is one possible axiom, but it is not the only one.
@1tabligh and then maybe you can say .. "oh no, God is not a conjecture but the cause for god, that is a conjecture" and that's fine but if you make a conjecture, you must allow me to make a different one, namely that the laws of physics are eternal and beyond logic. God can be many things but it definitely is NOT NECESSARY.
@LaserBlowFish Wow dude youre still going at this. Chapeau. But I checked it out with google and this 1tabligh fucktard is still only just quoting from this islamsite and to back it up he trashtalks. I admire your patience, but this guy isnt even worth it man.
@numbcore I know he is, and really I'm not arguing with him but his sources but he does seem to have enough of an understanding of them to actually find the parts which at least seem to counter what I'm saying. This may seem to be a waste of time, but actually reading the whole Quran to find that there's a provision against conjecture would be an even bigger one for example. You have to admire their effort in trying to make this thing air tight but ofcourse they fail ..
@numbcore I'm also slowly getting an insight into what belief this strong can do to the human mind. How it tries to twist logic to only prove what you want. I find that fascinating for some strange reason.
@LaserBlowFish Hmm yep, he does rationalize everything in his own mind to make things fit with his existing beliefs. You do argue about this quite well.
@numbcore Also, he may not be worth it but do you know someone who is AND is willing to keep talking about it with me for this long ? He's reading what I'm saying and responding to it, that is all I want really.
@LaserBlowFish If man, through the application of scientific instruments and criteria, cannot perceive the existence of a thing, he cannot deny its existence simply because it is incompatible with material criteria, unless he disposes of some proof that the thing in question is impossible.
@1tabligh i already said this, please take the time to read and understand what I wrote .. what you are saying is TRUE .. BUT .. If man, NOT through scientific instruments but through the use of LOGIC can prove that GOD is either beyond logic or a conjecture, and I did just that .. THEN he can make any other claim he wishes that is also beyond logic and it would be equally plausible.
We discover the existence of an objective law from within the totality of phenomena that it is capable of interpreting. If, then, the establishment of scientific truth is possible only by means of direct sensation, the majority of scientific truths will have to be discarded, since many scientific facts cannot be perceived by means of sensory experience or testing.
@LaserBlowFish I did not use scientific sensation in my argument .. it is based on LOGIC alone !
______
Now, too, in the age of science and technology, when man has found his way into space, a considerable number of scientists have a religious outlook as part of the intellectual system; they have come to believe in the existence of a creator, a source for all beings, not only by means of the heart and the conscience, but also through deduction and **************logic. ****************
@1tabligh "a considerable number of scientists", no, only a few of them, according to studies, "not only by means of the heart and the conscience, but also through deduction and logic" .. yes, 1% of scientists FAIL to use logic correctly in regards to their religion even if they use it correctly elsewhere, and the other 99% can PROVE this .. I have given you logical PROOF that this 99% would agree with and YOU would agree with it too if you didn't disagree with the conclusion from the start
@1tabligh I will not LIE like you do ! You do not KNOW the answer to that question just like I do not either, your God is just a conjecture, just like what I said !
@LaserBlowFish You don't know? Then why the hell are you quibbling in vain for? What you think, you got the brain for? Eating bananas and thinking about your so called monkey ancestors? Oh, grow up! Use you brain OR ask those who know instead of your quibbling in vain, O' Brainless cuckoo atheists with asinine mind!
Give answer otherwise CLOCK OFF!
NO WASTING TIME!
The chain of causality cannot recede into infinity!!!!!
The materialists may insist obstinately on denying the truth and put forward another specious argument. They may say, "We do not cut off the chain of causality but, on the contrary, perpetuate it indefinitely; we defend the principle of the infinite nature of the causative link." ...
To analyze the world of creation in this manner rests on the supposition of a chain of causes and effects and the infinite unfolding of a succession of causes. However, since each cause is also an effect, it lacks being in its own essence; it is unable to partake of existence apart from the cause superior and precedent to it. ...
@1tabligh 1. If the laws of physics are eternal and beyond logic then they simply exist and have existed forever only they are not a personal being like God. The laws of physics imply that where there was no matter, matter will inevitable appear, and it did. That is how it emerged from non-being.
2. It arose from the eternity that are the laws of physics.
3. The laws of physics allow for complex things to build from simple ones by evolution and gradual processes.
@LaserBlowFish However far this infinite chain is prolonged, it will still have the attributes of neediness, dependency, and origination in time. A chain from the very nature of which autonomy and freedom from need do not arise can *never* put on the garment of being until it connects with one who is in his essence *absolutely* free of need— with a being who possesses the attributes of *divinity* and who is *only* a cause and *not* an effect. ...
@1tabligh "*Without* the existence of such an *unconditional* being, the source of *all* causes and the foundation of *all* existence, the order of creation cannot EXIST!" YES! .. that is TRUE .. except, "attributes of *divinity* " is NOT TRUE .. and also, it does NOT need to have the attribute of being PERSONAL, "laws of physics" is a NONPERSONAL thing while "Allah, Jehovah, God, Merciful, Khuda, Bhagwan" are PERSONAL beings, they are NOT the same !
This has been flagged as spam show
I would not recommend you to jump into fire now and burn yourself to experience the punishment in hell. I say this, you all still have time to repent. Go now and repent all your sins and ask forgiveness from God. And lead a good, peaceful and happy life. Life in HEAVEN is a wonderful life and should be experienced by all of us. We have the right to live in HEAVEN. Its our home. In order to get there we know what we have to do.
foxjackalwolf 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
What you have to do is switch on the water heater for about 45 minutes and try taking bath under the hot shower. It will burn your skin. The moment the hot water touches your skin you will jump out of the shower. Now think of similar situation in hell where the fires will be much hotter and you will be burning in that fire throughout your life without being killed and you cannot do anything else but keep screaming for help and asking forgiveness.
foxjackalwolf 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
So people, all I want to say is that there is God and there is Evil. We have to decide what we do next, whether right or wrong. At the end of the world or Judgment Day satan won’t be there to rescue you. Instead he will dump you in the fires of hell. If you think that fire in hell won’t burn you because you are satan’s believer or worshipper then you are wrong. All of you have water heaters in your house right?
foxjackalwolf 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Both God and satan can take control of our conscience depends on whom we choose to give it to. For example: you are a married person and one day another person outside your marriage enters your life, you know it is wrong to have relationship with this person. Your conscience is telling you. But still in order to fulfill your emptiness or pleasure you have relation with the person. This is how you give way for satan to enter your life.
foxjackalwolf 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Therefore it is also true that there is some force that drives you to do good and force that drives you to do bad. If you don’t know what is right and what is wrong then you are not human instead you are just an animal. What is that drives you to do good or bad ? Its your conscience. This conscience is given to us by God. When Eve disobeyed God, she came to know what is good and bad. Through her we also came to know of it.
foxjackalwolf 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
No one came forward. Each and every one of them returned to their homes. Jesus himself has not sinned. So why didn’t He pick up the stone and throw at the prostitute? This shows that our Lord Jesus is ever forgiving. He knows that the prostitute had sinned. But He did not condemn her. Instead He told her to go and not to sin again.
Now for people who still thinks I am nonsense, listen to this. You all believe there is good and bad. You know what is good and what is bad.
foxjackalwolf 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Don’t be so haste in deciding that God is not answering your prayers. He will act only when the time is right. He gives you what you need and not what you want. He knows what is right for you and what is wrong. Some of you must have read the story of Jesus rescuing a Prostitute from a mob who were trying to stone her to death in the Bible. What did Jesus do? He told the people that if anyone was there in the crowd who has not sinned can be the first one to throw the stone at the prostitute.
foxjackalwolf 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
now falling back on every side like sparks in a huge fire, without weight, and amid shrieks and groans of pain and despair, which horrified us and made us tremble with fear.” All the non-believers and sinners, you all have a chance to redeem yourselves in the eyes of God. God created you and he loves you all very dearly. If we call to God for his forgiveness He will forgive us infinite number of times. He won’t get tired of our prayers. He will listen to our prayers.
foxjackalwolf 1 month ago
All of the 3 secrets happened as foretold. The HELL they saw was unforgiving. This is how one of the child described what she saw "Our Lady showed us a great sea of fire which seemed to be under the earth. Plunged in this fire were demons and souls in human form, like transparent burning embers, all blackened or burnished bronze, floating about in the conflagration, now raised into the air by the flames that issued from within themselves together with great clouds of smoke,
foxjackalwolf 1 month ago
This is for people who don't believe in God or who are still going in the path of sin. I believe in God. I hope you have all heard of the Miracle of Fatima in Portugal, when Mother Mary appeared to the 3 children. These children were small around 10 years of age at that time. They were not mature at all. So why should they go and tell the people who lived in Fatima that they have seen Mother Mary and that She had told them 3 secrets and also she also gave them a vision of HELL.
foxjackalwolf 1 month ago
@foxjackalwolf scary dairy!!
Ben1987X 1 month ago
@fdasherv The part of religious brainwashing has worked quite well with you! What are you scared of? Your children are safer with someone how is not prejudiced towards any religion, so they could make up their own mind. That's why we are the people who can actually make this consideration!
Millbrook1974 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
If you want evidence that God exists, or are interested in 9/11 search Jonathan Cahn 1 - Harbinger the Warning, on youtube here.
IwillhonorGod 5 months ago
Don't worry you'll get your chance to know God.
209Hmooblis 6 months ago
@WoodJetProductions That's great. Good on you. In the meantime, however, stay away from our children, our schools, and our science textbooks and we'll get along just fine.
fdasherv 7 months ago
religion is the worst thing to ever happen to this planet I'm sure alien planet far away dint have this problem and are technologically successful
Hippoman141 8 months ago
You have failed to see that the Jesus story was used back then for manipulation and population control by or for the Romans.Moise for the Egyptians. It was much more successful back then. It is continuing to this day. Want to know the reason ? Ask yourself.
Brearos 8 months ago
en wikiquote org ---->Albert_Einstein
HealthyBe 8 months ago
religion causes problems get rid of it
chazz5969 9 months ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
answer:
en.fgulen.com/questions-and-answers/1114-does-god-exist
in 23 world languages
realinformation71 10 months ago
this will help you,
en.fgulen.com/questions-and-answers/1114-does-god-exist
in 23 world languages
you will really see great articles,
realinformation71 10 months ago
We have had thousands of years to prove what cannot be proven.
______
The Development of Beliefs Through the Ages!
Scholars are agreed that religious beliefs have always been intertwined with human life. However, their opinions differ concerning the fundamental roots of religion and the factors that have played a primary role in its establishment and development. Their judgments, in this respect, are generally based on studies of superstitious religions and primitive
1tabligh 1 year ago
@Sakedrinker007 Then how can you delude yourself and believe that hydrogen and oxygen, electrons and protons, should first produce themselves, then be the source for all other beings, and finally decree the laws that regulate themselves and the rest of the material world?
1tabligh 1 year ago
@1tabligh Let me ask you one thing, if god existed would he accept all those deaths related to his religion? Is their any solid proof (the bible isn't solid proof) that god (or any god) acutally exist/existed?
holyjesuswashere 1 year ago
@holyjesuswashere (the bible isn't...
_____
Without doubt, one of the factors in the emergence of anti-religious ideas and a phalanx of deniers of God, has been the false teachings, the inadequacies and the intellectual perversions of the followers of some religions. The peculiarities and separate characteristics of each religion must, therefore, be individually examined when studying the reasons that have led men to adhere to that religion.
1tabligh 1 year ago
@1tabligh We have had thousands of years to prove what cannot be proven. Althought we might never have an answer to what must be the hardest question we have ever known, we know as a fact that we can't say something is wrong nor right if we do not have any solid proof that would solve it.
holyjesuswashere 1 year ago
beliefs, with the result that their conclusions are, in the final analysis, defective and illogical.
Western intellectuals were aware only of the superstitious aspect of false religion and how the established dogmas of religion lacked all logical basis, so they had no hesitation in condemning religion as such to be baseless. Their judgment was based on their discouraging experiences with their own religion, and it could not fail, then, to be hasty, unrealistic, irrational and illogical.
1tabligh 1 year ago
It is true that certain religions, lacking a connection with the principles of revelation, have been influenced in their appearance and growth by the social environment and similar factors. However, it is illogical to ascribe the foundation of all faiths and religious tendencies to material or economic circumstances and demands, to fear of the terrifying forces of nature, to ignorance or to considerations rejected by science.
1tabligh 1 year ago
@holyjesuswashere How can the atheists delude themselve and believe that hydrogen and oxygen, electrons and protons, should first produce themselves, then be the source for all other beings, and finally decree the laws that regulate themselves and the rest of the material world?
1tabligh 1 year ago
How can it be supposed that belief in the existence of God is the acceptance of contradiction, whereas belief in the uncaused nature of an effect such as matter is not contradictory?
How could it be believed that matter should itself be the origin of millions of attributes and characteristics and thus be the equivalent of the purposeful, wise and all-knowing Creator?
1tabligh 1 year ago
@1tabligh How can one person create everything... How can one person be the reason why we are here. How can one person create planets and universes. Why, if Jesus is our savior, hasn't stopped all this madness? Why do so many people die everyday. Why are there poor people. If one person was able to create everything, how come he can't stop all this? It wouldn't be that hard... Heck he created rocks, trees, humans animals... creating peace would be a walk in the park.
holyjesuswashere 1 year ago
@holyjesuswashere
And where did you pull that from?
I am not a Christian!
I am a Shiite Muslim!
Is it at all feasible to regard all the geometry, functioning and movement of the universe as the outcome of matter in its ignorance?
Materialism looks at the world with one eye *closed* and, as a result, is unable to answer numerous questions!
1tabligh 1 year ago
@1tabligh the bible doesnt contradict anything nor does it contradict history if your a real scientist youd know not to jump to conclusions without solid proof if you truyly want to know then make google your friend
matrixlone 10 months ago
@matrixlone
That's not for you to decide, rather it's the readers to decide!
The area of disagreement between Islam and Christianity, concerning Jesus, includes the following points:
1. Although Islam accepts the holiness of Jesus, it denies his divinity. According to the teaching of Islam, Jesus is no deity. He is not God, nor is he united with God. He is worthy of reverence and great respect, but he is not worthy of worship.
1tabligh 10 months ago
Islam is uncompromising in its Monotheism. God is only One, and there is no God but He, the Almighty, the Ever-Living, the Self-Subsistent, the Infinite in life, knowledge, and power. Jesus is not ever-living. He was born less than 2000 years ago, and according to the gospels, he died after a very short life. He is not almighty because he was a subject of persecution; nor was he infinite.
1tabligh 10 months ago
He could not be the Creator of the world because the world is over four billion years old,while he was born less than two thousand years ago. He is not worthy of worship because he himself was a humble worshipper of God.
2. He is not a son of God. God does not have any son or child, because He is above that. Bodily parenthood is inconceivable in His case because He is not physical. Spiritual parenthood also is not conceivable, because He is the Creator of every spiritual and material being.
1tabligh 10 months ago
@1tabligh all that is highly disputable even the facts about the world being very old believe me ive heard enough you can always google this stuff in the form of a question in reality you can only trust your own opinion if thats what you believe then so be it everyone has the freedom to choose but ill let you know know i will choose to believe that god came and became a man and thats the only physical proof youll get before his return when itll be too late
matrixlone 10 months ago
@matrixlone "And (they) impute falsely, without knowledge, sons and daughters unto Him. Glorified be He and high exalted above (all) that they ascribe (unto Him). The Originator of the heavens and the Earth!
How can He have a child when there is no consort for Him, when He created all things and is Aware of all things?
Such is God, your Lord. There is no God save Him, the Creator of all things, so worship Him. And He taketh care of all things." Qur'an 6:100-102
1tabligh 10 months ago
The bible!
And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; the Lord our God is one Lord:" (Mark 12:29) He did not say Hear, O Israel; the Lord **YOUR** God is one Lord:" (Mark 12:29)
He said Hear, O Israel; the Lord **our**(including himself) God is one Lord:" (Mark 12:29)
I have 3 the bibles, different versions and all say OUR and look it up on internet it says OUR!
1tabligh 10 months ago
@matrixlone god came and became a man
___
In that case Jesus would have said YOUR and NOT OUR!
Look it up in the Bible!
1tabligh 10 months ago
@1tabligh be specific
matrixlone 10 months ago
@1tabligh jesus christ still IS my lord and savior
matrixlone 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@matrixlone If Jesus was "god came and became a man" then why would he say:
"And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God." (Mark 10:18).
Look it up in the bible!
1tabligh 10 months ago
@1tabligh God the father God the holy ghost and The word of God who is jesus. Jesus is described as the "Word of God".
xxwaterboy1xx 10 months ago
@xxwaterboy1xx Jesus is described as the "Word of God".
______
When the angels said: O Mary, surely God gives you good news with a Word from Him (of one) whose name is the '. christ, JESUS son of Mary, worthy of regard in this world and the hereafter and of those who are made near (to God).
The Quran [3:45]
Behold! the angels said: "O mary! Allah hath chosen thee and purified thee- chosen thee above the women of all nations.
The Quran [3:42]
1tabligh 10 months ago
She (Mary) said: My Lord! when shall there be a son (born) to I me, and man has not touched me? He said: Even so, Allah creates what He pleases; when He has decreed a matter, He only says to it, Be, and it is.
The Quran 3 : 47
Wonderful Originator of the heavens and the earth, and when He decrees an affair, He only says to it, Be, so there it is.
The Quran 2 : 117
1tabligh 10 months ago
"...Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of god..." The Quran (4:171)
Say ye: "We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them: And we bow to Allah (in Islam)."
(Quran Chapter 2, Verse 136)
1tabligh 10 months ago
You and I were not the eye witnesses 2000 years ago
Even the bible says he was a prophet.
*************The bible: *********************
And the multitude (eye witnesses) said, This is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee.
Matthew 21:11
Look it up!
1tabligh 10 months ago
It´s pretty narrow minded to say we are just a brain. How do you explain the need to love someone or something outside ourselfs? To identify with someone outside ourselfs? The whole concept to adore, worship and the desire to love and be loved is far more complicated then to explain it with a brain-faith...If we are humble there is much more to discover I think. If God exist and we think of Him as a Father, the whole image of Him can only be explained by those who are His children, right?
avilakaj 1 year ago
Neurology has such massive implications for philosophy, that the relative lack of discussion on the subject concerns me. It should be totally rearranging people's theistic beliefs. For example, the afterlife is surely impossible, since our memories, emotions and thoughts can all be observed in the brain, and the brain stays here when we die, making it impossible to "take your mind with you" when you die, since it was 100% functions in the brain.
Jotto999 1 year ago
Actually no science can prove that God doesnt exist, because the Bible is so accurate that it cannot be proven wrong, also if it really was a big bang as some think, how would humans come to be and if it were monkey how did monkeys come to be. And space is so accurate so precise that if it just appeared even a meter away from its position now, we wouldnt exist because the lack of sun or too much sun, space was made so accyrate that someone must have been there to make it.
PJKTransformed 1 year ago
The bible is not one book. It is a collection of 66 books written over a period of 1600 years( approx 40 generations) Written by approx. 40 authors from every walk of life. The views and experiences of all these people as well as other wittnesses have been put into one volume for ease of reading only. Over this time the theme or message does not change. How much more evidence do you need??
musical149 1 year ago
How arguments about The Non Existence of god is pointless, yet the argument is on a globe scale and throughout history, as long as people say there is a god, there will be others to say there is not, its pointless to say god exist without proof of existence.
llGemini 1 year ago
@llGemini
Without proof of God's non-existence is pointless to argue againts God existence.
locoyo386 1 year ago
@llGemini Then how can the atheists delude themselve and believe that hydrogen and oxygen, electrons and protons, should first produce themselves, then be the source for all other beings, and finally decree the laws that regulate themselves and the rest of the material world?
1tabligh 1 year ago
God does exist.
locoyo386 1 year ago
God and Empirical Logic.
Matter or God?
Take your choice!
Some brainless atheists regard matter as independent and imagine that it has itself gained this freedom and elaborated the laws that rule over it.
But how can they believe that hydrogen and oxygen, electrons and protons, should first produce themselves, then be the source for all other beings, and finally decree the laws that regulate themselves and the rest of the material world?
Pseudo-Scientific Demagoguery!
1tabligh 1 year ago
@1tabligh Youre absolutely right. Silly atheists for believing matter created itself. Obviously it was a magical being that swung his magical wand and created everything, and let everything else from that point on run its own course.
numbcore 1 year ago
@numbcore Then how can the atheists delude themselve and believe that hydrogen and oxygen, electrons and protons, should first produce themselves, then be the source for all other beings, and finally decree the laws that regulate themselves and the rest of the material world?
1tabligh 1 year ago
@1tabligh No I agree with you. Of course it was all god, using magic :D
numbcore 1 year ago
@numbcore Have you ever seen the magic WITHOUT a magician?
1tabligh 1 year ago
Wonderful Originator of the heavens and the earth, and when He decrees an affair, He only says to it, Be, so there it is.
The Quran 2 : 117
She (Mary) said: My Lord! when shall there be a son (born) to I me, and man has not touched me? He said: Even so, Allah creates what He pleases; when He has decreed a matter, He only says to it, Be, and it is.
The Quran 3 : 47
1tabligh 1 year ago
@1tabligh Look, what Im trying to say is this.
According to you matter cannot exist just by itself. That seems unlikely.
But thinking that god just created stuff with "magic" is just as, if not, more unlikely. So your arguement simply does not work.
numbcore 1 year ago
@numbcore Let us see YOUR scientific understanding.
Go to the laboratory, and do an experiment with little of NOTHING, and then mix it with a LOT of NOTHING, and GUESS WHAT!
YOU WILL GET THIS SPECTACULAR UNIVERSE!
From NOTHING comes NOTHING!
What science is this?
What man of science are you?
Come back when you get something out of nothing!
1tabligh 1 year ago
@1tabligh Go to the laboratory and take a jar full of nothing and see if god magically creates a universe into the jar. Come back when you have a jar with a little universe in it.
numbcore 1 year ago
@numbcore You talking to me or God?
1tabligh 1 year ago
@numbcore If you will still persist in your ignorance at least assure me as to when this *universe * created itself-whether it did it before it came into existence, or afterwards?
If you say afterwards, your assertion is absurd. Because it is impossible for a thing to create its own self when it was already created.
cont..
1tabligh 1 year ago
The purpose of your assertion would be that the *universe * made itself twice. It would mean that its first endeavours consisted in creating itself, and when it was quite ready and created, it created itself again. This is the most *absurd* and impossible theory-the acquisition of what is already acquired.
If you say that it created itself before it came into existence, it is really *stupid*. Because it was absolutely nothing before it came into existence.
cont..
1tabligh 1 year ago
@1tabligh ehh I didnt say that nothing creating something was a good theory...I said nothing about it. You put those words in my mouth, you assume I think nothing created something, because I call the god/magic theory absurd.
What I clearrrrly said, was that your god/magic theory is easily just as absurd, as nothing creating something.
numbcore 1 year ago
@numbcore Is it not more logical to posit the existence of intelligence, will and planning in the creation of and ordering of the world than to attribute creativity to matter which lacks intelligence, thought, consciousness and the power to innovate?
1tabligh 1 year ago
@1tabligh Nobody is claiming that nothing created something. Some people state that they just dont know, but dont believe in a god.
Scientists think there was "some" thing before the big bang they dont know what that was yet, but nobody claims that nothing created something. Hundreds of years ago people thought god did all kinds of things like rising the sun and moon, we later found out it happend by itself. I think one day we will find out more about the start of the universe.
numbcore 1 year ago
@numbcore Belief in the existence of a wise creator is without doubt more logical than faith in the creativity of matter, which has neither perception, consciousness, nor the ability to plan; we cannot attribute to matter all the properties and attributes of intelligence that we see in the world and the ordering will that it displays.
1tabligh 1 year ago
Before he enters the realm of science and knowledge with all its concerns, man is able to perceive certain truths by means of these innate perceptions. But after entering the sphere of science and philosophy and filling his *brain* with various proofs and deductions, he may forget his natural and innate perceptions or begin to doubt them. It is for this reason that when man moves beyond his innate nature to delineate a belief, differences begin to appear.
1tabligh 1 year ago
God and Empirical Logic.
One of the most destructive and misleading factors in thoughts concerning God is to restrict one's thought to the "logic" of the empirical sciences and to *fail* to recognize the *limits* and boundaries of that "logic".
Is that which is necessary in essence and which is considered the first source of existence matter itself or something else beyond the limits of matter?
1tabligh 1 year ago
@1tabligh I am not even going to respond to copy pastings from your islamic sites.
numbcore 1 year ago
@numbcore So much science for this uncivilized brainless pseudo-Scientific Demagogue!
The argument of an IGNORANT!
Hiding your ignorance and arrogance behind your stupid pretext of "I am not even going to respond to copy pastings from your islamic sites. "!
Dodging ALL the questions and quibbling in vain!
Is science too heavy for you to comprehend?
Ever heard "Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."?
1tabligh 1 year ago
@1tabligh Oh my fucking god. Are you this stupid really? You cant even think for yourself. It suddenly took you much longer to come back to me, and you came back with copied texts. Im arguing with you, its not that I dont understand your ridiculous texts, I cant be bothered with arguing with the whole internet. And you even have the nerve to accuse me of not understanding this? Wow what an utter idiot you are, crawl back under your rock.
numbcore 1 year ago
@numbcore
You still don't get it, do you?
I have already in my inbox more then 9398 replies from wannabes monkeys, teachers, profs, scientists etc!
What makes you think, you are a special wannabe monkey?
No wasting time!
Talk science and answer the questions otherwise clock off!
Stupid brainless cuckoo atheist with asinine mind!
1tabligh 1 year ago
@1tabligh I posed my arguments against what you were saying. You didnt know what to say back. So you send me some almost unrelated texts that just speaks of god in general.
The text you sent also contains no questions, yet you ask me to answer the questions.
You then try to insult me on the basis of nothing. You lost.
numbcore 1 year ago
@numbcore Poor fella!
1tabligh 1 year ago
Should the scientist, who is aware of the natural causes and of the factors determining each step of creation towards perfection, of mankind's evolution, of the minute accuracy and exactitude that rules every change in the nature that surrounds us, come to believe that these wondrous laws and amazing interactions have somehow *fortuitously* emerged out of *mindless* matter?
Deluded atheist looks at the world with BOTH eyes *closed* and, as a result, are unable to answer ALL the questions!
1tabligh 1 year ago
@1tabligh You didnt even make an arguement against what I was saying. Your dumb copied text was just about god as a creator, in general. I bet that even I understand that text better than you do yourself ...
numbcore 1 year ago
@1tabligh You are right, there is no reason why a scientist SHOULD believe that the universe (or series of universes) never had a beginning and that out of an infinity of possible universes we live in one which supports life and the evolution of humans just because if it didn't, we wouldn't be here to talk about it, or at least not in this form. BUT, the point is that a scientist COULD believe that. While it may sound absurd, supernatural, it is no more so than God, so god is not necessary.
LaserBlowFish 1 year ago
@LaserBlowFish Exactly. Thats basically what I told him. What does he do? He copies text from islamic sites (i checked with google, it was obvious anyway). The texts dont even really make sense in the context of what we are speaking of, it just states some things in his favour using pseudo intellectual language.
numbcore 1 year ago
@LaserBlowFish Then how can the atheists delude themselve and believe that hydrogen and oxygen, electrons and protons, should first produce themselves, then be the source for all other beings, and finally decree the laws that regulate themselves and the rest of the material world?
1tabligh 1 year ago
@1tabligh same reply as above .. if you allow infinity, try rolling a die an infinite number of times and you will get a universe where hydrogen and oxigen and whatever complexity you can imagine, exists.
LaserBlowFish 1 year ago
@1tabligh And before you say "how dare i say that God is absurd", think of this: In order for god to have created the universe it would itself need to be timeless and spaceless, essentially infinite. If you allow such beings to exist then you must also allow the possibility that the universe itself is infinite. Nomatter how astronomically improbable something may seem, if you roll a die an infinite number of times, you WILL eventually get any result you can think of.
LaserBlowFish 1 year ago
Since the chain of causality cannot recede into infinity, they can answer only that matter is an eternal and timeless entity for which no beginning can be posited: matter is non-created, has no beginning or end, and its being arises from within its own nature.
This means that the materialists accept the principle of eternity and non-origination; they believe that all things arose out of eternal matter and that being arises from within the very nature of matter, without any need for a creator.
1tabligh 1 year ago
Comment removed
LaserBlowFish 1 year ago
@1tabligh while you may be right about the chain of causaility and i pretty much agree with the rest of your post, I just have to reiterate that using the argument that "complexity can only rise from creation", means it should also be applicable to God, being at least as complex as the universe to have created it, unless you also assert that God is not subject to logic, which again compounds the case that you can imagine similarly absurd reasons for things we just don't know.
LaserBlowFish 1 year ago
@1tabligh and i will preempt you again in trying to use William Lane Craig's "reasoning" to counter this argument. He said that if you think of God as the best explanation for the universe then you don't need an explanation for the explanation. Well, in fact, in order to actually prove something you DO. Does this mean science has never and never will prove any of its theories ? Yes, and it doesn't bother me as long as it predicts the future accurately enough.
LaserBlowFish 1 year ago
@1tabligh oh and while i'm on the topic of predicting the future .. God does NOT predict ANYTHING falsifiable, therefore the scientific method states you should at least be skeptical about it. How can something like that be a "best explanation" for anything ?
LaserBlowFish 1 year ago
@LaserBlowFish In just the same way that deluded atheist regards matter as eternal, believers in God attribute eternity to God. Belief in an eternal being is then common to materialist and religious philosophers: both groups agree that there is a primary cause, but believers in God regard the primary cause as wise, all-knowing, and possessing the power of decision and will, whereas in the view of the materialists, the primary cause has neither consciousness, intelligence, perception, ...
1tabligh 1 year ago
@1tabligh no .. they (atheists who are not deluded, but i agree that you might be able to find even a reasonable amount of deluded ones) do not claim that they know how the universe began .. they just regard its state as unknown. Just because they BEHAVE as if they were convinced that god doesn't exist, does not imply that they are. The fact that there is no PROOF for God, (nor for its nonexistence) is only ONE of many reasons someone might choose to to behave that way.
LaserBlowFish 1 year ago
nor the power of decision. Thus, the removal of God in no way solves the problem posed by eternal being.
Moreover, matter is the locus for motion and change, and its motion is dynamic and situated within its own essence. Now, essential motion is incompatible with eternity, and matter and essential stability are two mutually exclusive categories that cannot be fused in a single locus. ...
1tabligh 1 year ago
@LaserBlowFish Very nice reactions to his comments. But he will just come back at you with more copyings from al-islam (dot) org. Funny thing is that those copyings will probably pose "arguements" that you have just refuted, but nonetheless he will post it, because he doesnt understand any of this himself ..
I have had discussions with other muslims that did the exact same thing. Meanwhile seeming under the impression that they have the intellectual highground. Its pathetic imo.
numbcore 1 year ago
@numbcore
Dodging ALL the questions and quibbling in vain!
Materialism looks at the world with one eye *closed* and, as a result, is unable to answer numerous questions!
Deluded atheist looks at the world with BOTH eyes *closed* and, as a result, are unable to answer ALL the questions!
1tabligh 1 year ago
@1tabligh i'm sorry, i don't claim to be more intelligent than a tic-tac so please tell which question did i dodge ? To me it honestly seems i'm answering all of them ..
LaserBlowFish 1 year ago
@LaserBlowFish How could some of the scientists permit themselves to make a claim that would necessitate knowledge as extensive as the scheme of the universe, when their knowledge of the total scheme of being is *close* to zero, when confronted with a whole mass of unknowns concerning this very earth and tangible, lifeless matter, let alone the whole universe?
1tabligh 1 year ago
@1tabligh "How could some of the scientists .." i already replied to that in my post beginning with "no .. they (atheists who.." essentially saying that no, they just do not say that, true/false/unknown are three different things and the existence of God is NOT TRUE, it is NOT FALSE, IT IS UNKNOWN since all arguments to the contrary fail and i dealt with the kalam cosmological argument in my posts "You are right, there is no reason..." and "while you may be right about"
LaserBlowFish 1 year ago
@LaserBlowFish YES OR NO?
1tabligh 1 year ago
@1tabligh more on "How could some of the scientists.." is that this claim that it is "unknown" is realy not that hard to prove, it is simply a fact in logic that if something cannot be proven to be true OR false THEN it is unknown .. this applies to anything, even something as vast as the universe, as long as it is governed by logic .. which it may not be as i said, but then you get into absurdities very fast
LaserBlowFish 1 year ago
@LaserBlowFish All beings were originally non-beings; they were non-existent, and then they became existent. Deluded atheists wish to say that the energy/matter/univers/natural forces/ are eternal, but this notion is incorrect for the following reasons:
First, if the material energy/matter/univers/natural forces/ are eternal, it follows that an eternal being should be subject to change and cessation, which is impossible. ...
1tabligh 1 year ago
@1tabligh "it follows that an eternal being should be subject to change and cessation" .. why would that follow ? .. as far as we know, the laws of physics never change (or at least that view is consistent with all observations thus far) so if the laws of physics state that matter constantly comes into existence and vanishes then it is not required to be eternal and there is no contradiction .. in other words, in an universe where infinity exists, most things may still be finite
LaserBlowFish 1 year ago
@LaserBlowFish We say, then, that the existence of a thing is not possible without a cause of a deficient thing, that is, whose fate is in the hands of its cause and whose permanence is dependent on the existence of its cause. This does not apply to a being that is conscious of its reality and exhibits no trace of defect and limitation.
1tabligh 1 year ago
@1tabligh "This does not apply to a being that is" i already replied to a similar claim in "while you may be right about the chain" .. what you are doing is saying that in the world of God there is no logic, no causality .. but again if you think it is possible for something to exist without causality, then why not just say that simply the laws and constants of physics are "eternal and without cause" ? it is just as valid or absurd, depends how you look at it
LaserBlowFish 1 year ago
@1tabligh "All beings were originally non-beings; they were non-existent, and then they became existent." .. we don't know that .. all beings that we see around us seem to have become existent yes .. but that does not mean that there cannot exist other beings that are eternal .. and those beings could be personal meaning that yes God may exist and there is no way to prove he does not .. but they may be impersonal making it impossible to prove God exists
LaserBlowFish 1 year ago
@LaserBlowFish
You and Lawrence Kraus!
Let us see YOUR scientific understanding.
Go to the laboratory, and do an experiment with little of NOTHING, and then mix it with a LOT of NOTHING, and GUESS WHAT!
YOU WILL GET THIS SPECTACULAR UNIVERSE!
From NOTHING comes NOTHING!
What science is this?
What man of science are you?
Come back when you get something out of nothing!
1tabligh 1 year ago
@1tabligh "Come back when you get something out of nothing!" .. look at the ''A universe from nothing' video at 20:54 .. there you have a PICTURE of something coming from nothing :) .. they did the experiment in the lab and proved that image is one of the most accurate prediction of physics
LaserBlowFish 1 year ago
@LaserBlowFish look at the ''A universe from nothing' video at 20:54
_____
If you will still persist in your ignorance at least assure me as to when this *universe * created itself-whether it did it before it came into existence, or afterwards?
If you say afterwards, your assertion is absurd. Because it is impossible for a thing to create its own self when it was already created.
cont..
1tabligh 1 year ago
@1tabligh "when this *universe * created itself" ..You asked me for some "thing" to be created from nothing and I gave you an example. It is not a universe, it is just matter. This is only an analagy. Given the laws of physics, where there was no matter previously, matter appeared. My only point was that things you consider to be absurd ARE possible. God is absurd (illogical) but possible, so is the statement that the laws of physics have no cause, their existence being beyond logic.
LaserBlowFish 1 year ago
@LaserBlowFish there was no matter previously, matter appeared.
_____
Where did it come from?
Was it from your....?
Did matter appeared in YOUR...?
Where did you pull that from?
Matter has different aspects and dimensions; it is immersed in quantity and multiplicity; and it acquires its various dimensions by means of attributes and properties. The necessary being, by contrast, is free of all such properties.
1tabligh 1 year ago
@1tabligh it did not come from anywhere, while energy can transform into matter, there was no energy there to be transformed.. it's just that it cancels out because antimatter was also formed .. and yes this happens all the time everywhere, even where you are, inside you even, it's just that you cannot see it without lab equipment .. if you want to know more about this then ask a physicist, but it is true, it's been tested many times
LaserBlowFish 1 year ago
@LaserBlowFish where there was no matter previously, matter appeared.
_____
That means it had a beginning in time when it "appeared"!
Therefore it can't be eternal!
You have just *expelled* matter from the stronghold of eternity. YOU not only proves the createdness of the world but also bears witness that the world came into existence at a given time.
1tabligh 1 year ago
@1tabligh "Therefore it can't be eternal!" I never said matter was eternal, in fact I explicitly said, and proved, that it was NOT. The laws of physics however CAN be eternal and beyond logic and the universe can be a simple result of the laws of physics.
LaserBlowFish 1 year ago
@LaserBlowFish The laws of physics however CAN be eternal
____
And where did you pull that from?
The second principle of thermodynamics, entropy or the decline of thermal energy, teaches us that although we cannot fix a date for the appearance of the world, the world certainly did have a beginning. The heat in the world is gradually decreasing and falling, like a piece of molten iron that gradually diffuses its heat in the air until finally the heat of the iron will be ...
1tabligh 1 year ago
@1tabligh "And where did you pull that from?" .. nowhere really, i "concocted" it .. just like you "concocted" God to explain things you cannot explain otherwise
LaserBlowFish 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@LaserBlowFish We see, then, that the natural sciences have ***expelled "The laws of physics" /matter/energy*** from the stronghold of eternity. Science not only proves the createdness of the world but also bears witness that the world came into existence at a given time.
1tabligh 1 year ago
identical with that of the objects and the air surrounding it.
If there were no beginning or point of departure for the world, all the existing atoms would have dissolved and been transformed into energy an infinite number of years ago. In the course of a very long past, the heat of the world would have come to an end, for matter, in the course of its successive and continuous transformation, is transformed into perishable energies ...
1tabligh 1 year ago
It is not possible for all the energy dispersed to be transformed anew into matter and mass comfortable to the world of being.
In accordance with the principle just mentioned, once usable energy is exhausted, chemical action and reaction can no longer take place. But given that chemical action and reaction do take place that life is possible on the earth, and that a huge body like the sun is divisible each day and night into three hundred thousand million tons, it is clear that the world..
1tabligh 1 year ago
has originated in time.
The death of planets and stars, the disappearance of suns, is a proof of death and mutation in the existing order; they show that the world is advancing towards non-being and an inevitable conclusion.
We see, then, that the natural sciences have ***expelled "The laws of physics" /matter/energy*** from the stronghold of eternity. Science not only proves the createdness of the world but also bears witness that the world came into existence at a given time.
1tabligh 1 year ago
@1tabligh "***expelled "The laws of physics" /matter/energy***" .. you inserted that there, and it is a mistake .. the laws of physics are NOT the same as matter / energy .. matter and energy are quantities manipulated by said laws .. it is a widely accepted that the laws of physics have NOT changed at all since the beginning of the universe, and it is possble, although impossible to prove, that they are in fact eternal
LaserBlowFish 1 year ago
1tabligh 1 year ago
@1tabligh 2, it is a cojecture .. God is also a conjecture
LaserBlowFish 1 year ago
@1tabligh "A conjecture is a proposition that is unproven but appears correct and has not been disproven" 1. the existence God is also proposition 2. I have heard many "proof" for god, but they all fail logically, therefore it is unproven 3. it does appear to correct to believers at least 4. you cannot disprove God because God is by definition unfalsifiable 5. THEREFORE .. God is a conjecture
LaserBlowFish 1 year ago
@LaserBlowFish ..God is a conjecture ..
_____
Your delusions that science has put out the notion of God is purely *rhetorical* and has nothing to do with logical method, because even thousands of scientific experiments could not possibly suffice to demonstrate that no non-material being or factor exists.
Your claim is nothing more than a *fanatical* illusion based on unproven theories. Views such as these derive directly from a system of thought centered on materialism; within it, ....
1tabligh 1 year ago
@1tabligh "because even thousands of scientific experiments could not possibly suffice" no, I have proven God "has nothing to do with logical method" simply by contradiction 1. suppose God does have something to do with the logical method
2. assuming logic, everything must have a cause 3. god does not have a cause 4. THEREFORE, by contradiction God "has nothing to do with logical method"
LaserBlowFish 1 year ago
@1tabligh also, i said that "god does not have a cause" and then you can say "but how do i know God does not has a clause ?" and the answer is I don't but my conclusion still stands. Suppose God has a cause, it's possible, but then if you're assuming logic then that cause must itself have a cause, and the further, the cause of the cause must have a cause, and the cause of the cause of the cause .. even if you allow such an infinite regression, that itself is illogical .. so God MUST be absurd
LaserBlowFish 1 year ago
@1tabligh also I should clarify "assuming logic, everything must have a cause" .. in fact it should "everything EXCEPT an axiom (= conjecture) must have a cause". The point is that in logic you always presuppose a set of axioms and then you can ask questions of the form "does X derive from that set ?". Without axioms you really cannot prove anything. God is one possible axiom, but it is not the only one.
LaserBlowFish 1 year ago
@1tabligh and then maybe you can say .. "oh no, God is not a conjecture but the cause for god, that is a conjecture" and that's fine but if you make a conjecture, you must allow me to make a different one, namely that the laws of physics are eternal and beyond logic. God can be many things but it definitely is NOT NECESSARY.
LaserBlowFish 1 year ago
@LaserBlowFish Wow dude youre still going at this. Chapeau. But I checked it out with google and this 1tabligh fucktard is still only just quoting from this islamsite and to back it up he trashtalks. I admire your patience, but this guy isnt even worth it man.
numbcore 1 year ago
@numbcore I know he is, and really I'm not arguing with him but his sources but he does seem to have enough of an understanding of them to actually find the parts which at least seem to counter what I'm saying. This may seem to be a waste of time, but actually reading the whole Quran to find that there's a provision against conjecture would be an even bigger one for example. You have to admire their effort in trying to make this thing air tight but ofcourse they fail ..
LaserBlowFish 1 year ago
@numbcore I'm also slowly getting an insight into what belief this strong can do to the human mind. How it tries to twist logic to only prove what you want. I find that fascinating for some strange reason.
LaserBlowFish 1 year ago
@LaserBlowFish Hmm yep, he does rationalize everything in his own mind to make things fit with his existing beliefs. You do argue about this quite well.
numbcore 1 year ago
@numbcore Also, he may not be worth it but do you know someone who is AND is willing to keep talking about it with me for this long ? He's reading what I'm saying and responding to it, that is all I want really.
LaserBlowFish 1 year ago
@LaserBlowFish
Numbcore is right. He's just a copypaster. He's been going around YouTube for a while now spouting someone else's nonsense.
laflugantabastardo 1 year ago
@LaserBlowFish If man, through the application of scientific instruments and criteria, cannot perceive the existence of a thing, he cannot deny its existence simply because it is incompatible with material criteria, unless he disposes of some proof that the thing in question is impossible.
1tabligh 1 year ago
@1tabligh i already said this, please take the time to read and understand what I wrote .. what you are saying is TRUE .. BUT .. If man, NOT through scientific instruments but through the use of LOGIC can prove that GOD is either beyond logic or a conjecture, and I did just that .. THEN he can make any other claim he wishes that is also beyond logic and it would be equally plausible.
LaserBlowFish 1 year ago
We discover the existence of an objective law from within the totality of phenomena that it is capable of interpreting. If, then, the establishment of scientific truth is possible only by means of direct sensation, the majority of scientific truths will have to be discarded, since many scientific facts cannot be perceived by means of sensory experience or testing.
1tabligh 1 year ago
@1tabligh "only by means of direct sensation" .. nope, I did not use scientific sensation in my argument .. it is based on LOGIC alone !
LaserBlowFish 1 year ago
Comment removed
LaserBlowFish 1 year ago
Comment removed
LaserBlowFish 1 year ago
@LaserBlowFish I did not use scientific sensation in my argument .. it is based on LOGIC alone !
______
Now, too, in the age of science and technology, when man has found his way into space, a considerable number of scientists have a religious outlook as part of the intellectual system; they have come to believe in the existence of a creator, a source for all beings, not only by means of the heart and the conscience, but also through deduction and **************logic. ****************
1tabligh 1 year ago
@1tabligh "a considerable number of scientists", no, only a few of them, according to studies, "not only by means of the heart and the conscience, but also through deduction and logic" .. yes, 1% of scientists FAIL to use logic correctly in regards to their religion even if they use it correctly elsewhere, and the other 99% can PROVE this .. I have given you logical PROOF that this 99% would agree with and YOU would agree with it too if you didn't disagree with the conclusion from the start
LaserBlowFish 1 year ago
@LaserBlowFish STOP beating around the BUSH!
What is the PRIME CAUSE of ALL EXISTENCE?
1tabligh 1 year ago
@1tabligh "PRIME CAUSE of ALL EXISTENCE" possibly the law of the physics themselves if they are eternal and beyond logic ..
LaserBlowFish 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@LaserBlowFish possibly the law of the physics
_____
possibly?
Not sure?
"if they are eternal"
"if"?
Not sure?
1tabligh 1 year ago
@LaserBlowFish
What is the PRIME CAUSE of ALL EXISTENCE?
NO "possibly" and NO "if"!!!
1tabligh 1 year ago
@LaserBlowFish Why not say "I don't know"?
Then I know how to deal with you!
1tabligh 1 year ago
@1tabligh I will not LIE like you do ! You do not KNOW the answer to that question just like I do not either, your God is just a conjecture, just like what I said !
LaserBlowFish 1 year ago
@LaserBlowFish You don't know? Then why the hell are you quibbling in vain for? What you think, you got the brain for? Eating bananas and thinking about your so called monkey ancestors? Oh, grow up! Use you brain OR ask those who know instead of your quibbling in vain, O' Brainless cuckoo atheists with asinine mind!
Give answer otherwise CLOCK OFF!
NO WASTING TIME!
The chain of causality cannot recede into infinity!!!!!
1tabligh 1 year ago
The Finiteness of the Chain of Causality!
The materialists may insist obstinately on denying the truth and put forward another specious argument. They may say, "We do not cut off the chain of causality but, on the contrary, perpetuate it indefinitely; we defend the principle of the infinite nature of the causative link." ...
1tabligh 1 year ago
@1tabligh .. "The Finiteness of the Chain of Causality" .. this implies God is absurd, i have proven it .. NEXT
LaserBlowFish 1 year ago
@LaserBlowFish Answer the 4 question below!
1tabligh 1 year ago
@1tabligh I have answered all your questions. If you think my answers are absurd, well they are just as absurd as your God !
LaserBlowFish 1 year ago
To analyze the world of creation in this manner rests on the supposition of a chain of causes and effects and the infinite unfolding of a succession of causes. However, since each cause is also an effect, it lacks being in its own essence; it is unable to partake of existence apart from the cause superior and precedent to it. ...
1tabligh 1 year ago
So how did each part of the chain, which is dominated by neediness from one end to another, emerge from non-being?
The existence of each part of the chain manifests inadequacy, impotence, and origination in time; whence did its existence arise?
How can great and complex beings emerge from infinite joinings of nonbeing?
Does life gush forth from the union of the numerous factors that bring about death?
1tabligh 1 year ago
@1tabligh 1. If the laws of physics are eternal and beyond logic then they simply exist and have existed forever only they are not a personal being like God. The laws of physics imply that where there was no matter, matter will inevitable appear, and it did. That is how it emerged from non-being.
2. It arose from the eternity that are the laws of physics.
3. The laws of physics allow for complex things to build from simple ones by evolution and gradual processes.
4. It inevitably does, yes.
LaserBlowFish 1 year ago
@LaserBlowFish However far this infinite chain is prolonged, it will still have the attributes of neediness, dependency, and origination in time. A chain from the very nature of which autonomy and freedom from need do not arise can *never* put on the garment of being until it connects with one who is in his essence *absolutely* free of need— with a being who possesses the attributes of *divinity* and who is *only* a cause and *not* an effect. ...
1tabligh 1 year ago
@1tabligh "*Without* the existence of such an *unconditional* being, the source of *all* causes and the foundation of *all* existence, the order of creation cannot EXIST!" YES! .. that is TRUE .. except, "attributes of *divinity* " is NOT TRUE .. and also, it does NOT need to have the attribute of being PERSONAL, "laws of physics" is a NONPERSONAL thing while "Allah, Jehovah, God, Merciful, Khuda, Bhagwan" are PERSONAL beings, they are NOT the same !
LaserBlowFish 1 year ago