THANK YOU! Love how you pointed out that human perception is not infallible. Socrates the greek philosopher was alluding to the same thing in his analogy of the cave.
I don't think we are morally stunted I think our politicians are which tends to give the overall bad impression. The only problem is being smarter and more moral doesn't get the rich to fund your election and that's how these ass hats keep getting into office. wolf-pac(dot)com ;-)
So funny to see DawahFilms, first of all not in able to provide any evidence in the existence of god, second to degrade the believe in god to a mere biological brain phenomenon and act all smug about it. He just proved that believing in a god is biological not rational. Did he actually think he made a point?
Yes, mr dawah, this fucking 'evidence' thing is such a yawn. . until you get falsely accused of murder or similar, and the jury uses 'intuition' to 'feel' that you are guilty!
America was founded by white CHRISTIAN men of integrity- not parasites like you Puke-a who are currently destroying it with your multicultural fag loving liberal pro abort anti christ spin. FACT
PROOF??? "Seek and ye shall find"- FACT#2. If you haven't found God, it's cause YOU AIN'T LOOKIN. And probably don't want to.
I looked, and I found. And the whole calendar is set around the life of Christ, bonehead. Darwin? Nope- DarLOSE
@Gabe7King8ofrnr10 "Seek and ye shall find" Strange.. Never heard a scientist say that. Either it's: 'here's the evidence' or 'I / We simply do not know (yet)'. Those are honest answers, gabe.
What should a judge do in court, when the prosecutor says: Well, he's clearly guilty. I looked for evidence and found them, now you, the judge, should do the same and you should come to the same conclusion, because I did.
"THAT IS A PROMISE AND A FACT. I did it, and God honored that effort."
- except most of the time this doesnt happen and even when it allegedly does happen there is nothing to really to distinguish it from delusion
"YOU AIN'T LOOKING and that is just plain bad science, to not INVESTIGATE that which you are claiming..."
- NO, rejection is the logical default until evidence is presented, if YOU want to claim it as true then the burden of proof is on YOU to present evidence
"You have not read the Bible (like all the other nay sayers),"
- you'll find that most atheists know more about the bible than most christians
if you want to turn someone atheist then make them read the bible :)
" and you have not dilligently sought the Lord in prayer with a humble heart"
- incorrect, myself and many others have done so and it doesnt work, furthermore you have no way of demonstrating your 'experience' actually occurred (not dellusion)
@Gabe7King8ofrnr10 "You have not read the Bible (like all the other nay sayers), and you have not dilligently sought the Lord in prayer with a humble heart. FACT"
Studies show atheists and agnostics know more about religion than theists.
Buuuut, I don't expect you to take my word for that. Look it up. It's as simple as typing "study religious knowledge" into google, and clicking the first link. It's easy.
I would throw exactly the same argument you make at Dawah at you.
For example.
You acknowledge you are open to this when you make the positive claim about “infringing on personal liberty & individuality” & you address this point saying you would need to provide evidence, so you see it as a two way process, you demand justification of what he says, he demands justification of what you say………… so no problem there.
@tmesist ............................... continued
However you also make a second positive claim that was unaddressed. You say Dawah must prove his argument, & later go on to demand Dawah must first define God.
2 points here, one you haven’t defined what evidence is & secondly if you are demanding evidence, surely you are not asking for an arbitrary proof but one that fits within a particular system of epistemology. I would ask you to justify your system of epistemology that defines your concept of legitimate evidence. Because in essence this is simply what you are asking Dawah to do & as we agreed before, justification is a two way street.
You're sceptical of what he's says, thus have used a system of epistomology. Is the system of epistomology you are using to be sceptical of his words justifiable? If not your scepticism is not ligitimate. Establishing the ligitimacy of epistomology is the basis of this argument as you are both using different system by default assuming your own is correct. So I would ask both of you to stop assuming & justify, so I can decide which epistomology has more merits.
@tmesist (shrug) I can provide evidence for the claims I put forward that demand an infringement of the liberty of others. For example;
"you cannot dump waste into the river because it poisons the water supply" i can show the direct result of the ill effects the poison causes.
But if you say; "god says don't dump waste in the river or he will smite you", why should I not dump waste if it is in my best interest and I have no evidence it will do harm or I will be smited? >.<
But where did it come from, where born with it, was it taught to you, is it hard wired, does it come from language, is it correct, why do you presume it correct, are you using the same one as Dawah?
The crux of your debate with Dawah lays in the fact you are using 2 different epistomologies, just hearing you both speak it is clear.
@TheTruePooka Every debate by definition occurs witin epistomolgy. You even brought cognitive science into the later part of your vid. Empiricism is an epistomology. As for Dawah I would judge his argument to be at best a very convoluted form of empiricism.
@tmesist "Every debate by definition occurs within epistemology." yes, I'm aware of that. I'm familiar with the different branches of epistemology.
I was merely pointing out that you were attempting to roll back the debate to a very basic "define the nature of your reasoning" argument which wasn't really the starting point of the original debate.
Dawah fails in his analysis of how an atheist might respond to an actual regrown limb. That has nothing to do with the POINT of mentioning that God's miracles never seem to include them.
If a god is said to perform all sorts of healing miracles then it is valid to point out that never in the history of "miracles" has a limb been regrown! Hell, he cures cancer and even brings back the "dead" - but can't regrow a missing arm? How I might respond to a restored limb is irrelevant.
I'm really not interested in anything Dawah has to say - but I WOULD like to hear him sing "Moonshadow".
Yeah, I suppose it was decent of him to be one of the few who actually gave you permission to use his clips, but isn't it possible that the only reason he did so is that he has been around here so long and had so many debates and arguments with secular channels that he knows damn well that saying "no" doesn't work?
It's quite funny how I debated with a muslim at my work about how he sees agency in things and this and that about Islam.
I explained that humans have an unfortunate tendency to imagine things due to our hyperactive imagination. I used lightning, earthquakes and tornadoes as an example. We know what causes all 3 and we can even predict when/where the last two will occur. Natural explanations for such things have replaced supernatural explanations. Religion is dishonest by definition.
DawahFilms is an shithead, i was reasoning with him once and asked simple questions like "why jihad is violent" and why is his importance in epistemology so important and why he disagrees with science and guess what he said.
He called me(a 17yr old high schooler who has to do calculus for breakfast) an insult to education. CAN U FUKING BELIEVE IT, he then blocks me!!!
Belief in god(s) wouldn't increase human survivability by itself - but rather the soaial bonds formed by believing in the same god/s as the rest of your tribe would.
This still doesn't mean belief in god(s) is rational. Belief in anything without evidence, in this day and age, is irrational. We've come a long way since it helped tie our tribes together...
You are aware that empiricism is an epistemological belief system, (read: philosophy) and that what we call "Science" is only but a branch of philosophy, right?
Did he just invoke a very near Cartesian dualistic argument and then lament at the state of American philosophy? I thought neuroscience pretty much destroyed any hope of the form of dualism that dawah wants and believes in.
"America is an intellectually stunted country when it comes to philosophy"
I disagree that it has to do with America. Richard Dawkins is British, and his philosophy is very weak. He's a brilliant biologist, but horrible philosopher. I'm not trying to say that atheists are philosophically weak, though.... theists are just as bad.
I miss the old atheist philosophers.. like Bertrand Russel and Nietzsche.
In his video Kevin says "Athiests are just playing word games when they say they believe in the possibilty of the existence of god, they don't believe it's even possible". That is total and complete horse shit right there. Dawahfilms video isn't even his own original idea, he ripped it off some other goofballs video on the internet just like VenomFangX did with Kent Hovind, his video isn't really even worth a serious response if you ask me.
A Man has a right to choose his own name, even if it's different from the one he's born with. I still think of Cat Stevens, as Cat Stevens, but if I met the man, I'd call him Yusaf.
If you'd met Mohammed Ali, would you have called him Cassius Clay?
I wonder if Dawah can understand that the history of leaders and tyrants killing off those bold enough to decent and question would, over time, make it an evolutionary beneficial to not question such things, making it evolutionary hard wired trait. It has a feel of a self fulfilling prophesy as the historical blood-letting of rebels sort of directed evolution of mankind so that they would be predisposed to it. It would be like saying being short is right if we killed anyone over 6 ft previously.
People like Dawah who have (likely) never suffered from mental health issues really don't understand how fragile our perception of the world is. Be it our understanding of this around us, our ability to process data or just the way our senses function. I doubt he's ever had to question his reality to a strong degree and listening to him it sounds like he's very happy he doesn't have to question himself.
@Otokogoroshi Well, its patently obvious he has never taken any psychology classes. He always dwells in the fairy land of mental masturbation: philosophy. More often than not, he degrades even that nonsense all the way down to pure sophistry.
I see how Ali ignored me when I explained the medical condition his "prophet" was suffering from. See: Temporal Lobe Epilepsy. Yeah, that's right, extreme religiosity is a MENTAL DISORDER. Jesus, Joan of Arc, Mohammad, and many many other cult leaders suffered from it. Its actually pretty common, some just are effected by it a LOT more than others. He also ignored the fact intelligent nonbelievers GET KILLED and have for thousands of years- forcing a breeding selection FOR the defect.
@DawahFilms I don't watch mythological bullshit. I already spent too many years reading the books. I'm not wasting another second of my life listening to the ramblings of a cult or its members, especially a desert dwelling death cult. ALL abrahamic faiths are EVIL to their core. They have caused more pain, suffering and death than the plague and aids combined. NONE of them have ANY proof to back up ANY of their metaphysical claims. Its bronze age goat herding meteorite worshipping bullshit.
So your justification for claiming Im ignoring you even though I made a video refuting that claim is to claim that my refutation is not worth listening to (close mindedness ftw) and stuff about evil, pain, broze, and goats.
Dawah, there is a problem with your refutation of old man Mo having epilepsy, temporal lobe epilepsy do produce auditory and complex visual hallucination. That do sounds more like what that person was suffering.
@DawahFilms Here's the thing so called "Lion of God" you can believe in whatever stupid shit you like and for whatever reason you like but don't expect me to believe it or think you are rational for believing it OK. Without evidence it is just your belief. Nothing more than that and I think that is an irrational position for you to take and I have every reason to think as well as say so. Mohammad did not fly to paradise on a winged horse and if you believe he did then you will believe anything
If you assume there's a mugger in the bushes their might actually be one. And muggers can harm people.
Haven't heard the supernatural harming people in any way if they investigate. Believers in said supernatural , are a different story altogether and are sadly capable of harm ....
Doesn't Ali's toolbox have the ability to notice that this biological bias to assume agency in unknown situations is almost always wrong? Was it wrong to presume that some agency caused disease? Yes, the demon theory of disease was wrong for thousands of years because religion taught people to not look for natural causes. It is always wrong to assume supernatural causes without complete knowledge of all natural causes.
(con't) Whereas, if you see beliefs as merely an extension of curiosity, a failed attempt to explain the world these cultures instantly fall into perspective. They simply never ask the questions a curious people with time to kill would ask because their environment has never allowed them the time to ponder those questions. Hunter-gatherer cultures don't create many superstitions, or pursue science because they don't have the time, or inclination to do so.
The problem I have with the entire 'dualist evolutionary advantage' argument is that it fails to account for tribes like the Piraha which not only do not have any supernatural beliefs but also have difficulty grasping why anyone else would. Their entire culture exists in the metaphorical 'now' they don't believe in life after death, gods (not even having a word for the concept), or external purpose. These types of cultures are simply unexplainable under the 'agency helps survival' claim.
That's a crazy argument from Ali. Surely the fact that we have a predisposition to believe in the supernatural should make us skeptical of supernatural claims.
When large numbers of people believe in a supernatural claim, we know that they because of their built-in predisposition they will be inclined to hold that belief *regardless* of whether it is true or not. Therefore, logically, the fact that they hold that belief is not evidence for the claim. For that we must look elsewhere.
(paraphrase) [ I see intention, agency, dualism ... ]
No, you imagine supernatural intention, agency, and dual states. If you could see them, they'd be natural and accessible to investigation and falsification.
If religiosity is based in our biology/psychology then that is contrary to Dawahfilm's conclusion: it is actually an argument against the independent existence of god, separately from our psychological needs for being contained in a meaningful cosmos. My own atheism in fact is based on such a psychological argument: belief in any supernatural existence is the false resolution of the cognitive dissonance between our biological imperative to survive and our knowledge of finite existence.
@eydos Our earliest forms of religion were ancestor worship and totemism, neither of which holds a belief in the supernatural or in gods. The spirits of the ancestors, and the spirits invested in totems were believed to be part of this world, not the supernatural. Ancestor worship is an attempt to hold on to intergenerational knowledge after its holder is dead, and totemism is an irrational attempt to get more out of natural resources than is immediately apparent.
Still, even in ancestor worship and totemism there are elements of a need for an ordered universe that ought to exist for our convenience. The instinctual pushing of organisms to survive can manifest on a psychological level in many forms once conscious awareness is present in the human animal. The more complex the human neocortex became, the more lies were needed to suppress the tragic character of existence.
@eydos I would suggest that a great deal of the "tragic character of existence" can be attributed to the difference between what we feel inside and the the behaviours society expects from us. Not only are these behaviours idealized to the point where it is impossible to live up to them, they are often expected to be entirely natural, requiring no explanation. For instance, gender roles, or filial affections are entirely natural, etc. When we fail to live up to expectations, we are punished.
@pirbird14 Of course the structural aggression of society for compliance coupled with unjust economic/political systems and the promotion of unrealistic life-programs enhances the dramatic and the cruelly banal in many people's lives. But I also claim a more fundamental tragedy, coinciding with our very blossoming to awareness about our place in the world, the following attempt of compromise leads to denial, which next leads to socially empowered, defensive mental constructs such as religiosity.
I know Unicorns do not exist. Therefore I think being a professor of Unicorns is a waste fo time. Philosophy concerning Yaweh, his existence and nature is equally a waste of time. It oes not work. Ever. Been tried. Failed. Philosophy concerning the nature of existence, the id etc may have some use other than mental masturbation but until it comes up with something concrete and useable I am not personally intereted. Where philosophy crosses with physics concerning the beginning of existence is OK
I disagree with Dawah about us being hard wired to believe in the supernatural. The awareness of the supernatural (or anything else come to think of it) is only brought about by exposure to it's existence (be it real or not) by others.
If there were never any ghost stories ever in history then people would not "experience" ghosts. Same goes for religion & gods. What Dawah says is only true when ancients were more ignorant of their world. Unnatural explanations always get replaced by natural.
Why do you get so riled up by you tube comments? You Muslims have a saying, "Insha'Allah." I'm an atheist, but I've always liked that saying. I think of it as an Arab/ Islamic way of saying "let it be." What meaning does that phrase hold for you?
She's at Stanford. Google for her & Stanford - that should pull up a list of her research papers. Otherwise I believe she has an paper in Scientific American. 2011 - on Language & Thought.February issue or March.
While I disagree that this is evidence for the existence of a god, Dawah is right that there are Atheists out there that will rationalize away any evidence for the gods.
Just as an experiment, any Atheist reading this please answer this.
@OtherGonzo How would the atheist know this is a God? Does it say it? Does he look like one? If so, what does a god look like? Would he perform miracles? If so, what kind of miracle? Please elaborate.
Either way, you can't expect all Atheists to share the same standards for evidence. I know one who became a Christian because her alarm clock turned on by itself.
@OtherGonzo It would depend on the level of evidence. Someone saying they are a god isn't proof of anything. That guy at Waco said he was the messiah, when clearly he was just some nutter. I would have to be able to test the claim before I would accept or dismiss it. If the god refused to be tested, I would dismiss it.
@BrotherAlpha Exactly. The Deist argument. The core foundation of Theism, yet unproven past a 50% certainty. Many theist scholars have attempted to raise this number using complex mathematical equations (like William Lane Craig) only to be refuted by average joes in uTube in their spare time. Why this fact hasn't sparked a trace of doubt on religious apologists is a mystery to me.
Funny how Dawah uses a scientific hypothesis (not even a theory), which wholly relies on the theory of evolution, which wholly relies on an old earth and natural changes, which are completely at odds with the Abrahamic religions...to prove that God is real. Seriously?!
Dawah. Here's some advice. Go to Afghanistan to fight the U.S. so we can get a predator drone to bomb your ass without remorse. I'm simply tired of your existence.
1) I believe in old earth and theory of evolution.
2) Your last comment reeks of bigotry and I do hope that you yourself go to Afghanistan so that you can get your teen agression out and eventually accidentally step on a mine, thus becoming YT entertainment in the genre of "stupid".
Sorry Amet, your level of reading comprehension is about as spectacular as a vegetables.
So, let me ask, why don't you ever show your face in your videos? Perhaps you're the one in need of a robe because you're far too ugly to get any sort of attention?
Im assuming thats why you're always commenting to me. Jealous much?
Activism when you were younger? You're about the same age as me? So what you're telling me is that you do NOTHING now.
The real question? Oh, thats easy and Im PROUD to announce it to the world. I go to a university where I am planning to eventually become a professor. I also do political activism NOW. I took part in the protests recently here in Malaysia. I also work with scholars surrounding the Arab Spring and Im about to have an academic article published.
@DawahFilms so you took part to the "death to apostates"rally and you ll publish to the jihadist journal your article in favor of fascism in middle east.. good for you..
I dont see what right do you have as an american, to meddle into foreign countries internal matters, but how about some real activism dodo..?
..some field work, maybe?
Gaza has abundance of Islamists, but maybe you could offer some work in a health provider mission..
Evasive as usual. Unsupported assumptions...AS USUAL.
To hide your pathetic life. I took part in a rally for equal voting rights and economic rights for all Malaysian citizens. I got a canister of tear gas only a few feet away from me and a couple of cops trying to beat me with sticks. Once again, proud of that. Im getting published in a book from my university.
Once again, not ashamed at all to say this.
You, on the contrary, seem to be ashamed to say anything about you.
Im sorry, Amet, Im afraid I dont think you're important enough to ever get tickets to such a thing (if such ever existed).
Yeah, lets mock whats happening in Gaza Amet! You like it when people are oppressed? Dont do what you usually do now by trying to point the finger at Muslims. Answer the question. Please tell us DIRECTLY what your views are on the Gazan people and their plight. We'd REALLY love to see what you think of it.
How about this, Amet. I'll let you redeem yourself. You wanna help? I can give you some advice on how to help the Muslim world and get you off your ass to actually do something useful instead of spending the majority of your time on YT.
I think if someone said " GOD HEAL ALL AMPUTEES" And they were all healed at once, there would be validation to consider god as opposed to one person or one incident.
"There's no other tools in the toolbox", he says. That's amusing, because we all know the reason why he has no other tools in the toolbox is that he takes up all the tool space all by himself.
I just called you a tool, Dawah.
The sad fact that you -see- intention and purpose does not mean -there is- purpose. This is the core flaw in your entire argument. I can see a face in a cloud, that doesn't mean the cloud has a face. From what you say, you not only see a face, but think it's a person
You have a refreshing take on stuff, Pooka. Always interesting to watch.
I've always heard the "biological compulsion to agency detection" as evidence that God probably DOESN'T exist, since it's exactly the kind of thing we would imagine, given our evolutionary history. Surprising to see it stretched to support that belief is the default position... we evolved to see the truth that Wotan exists? Bizarre.
@C0nc0rdance I've been watching this approach develop over the past year or so. I noticed it first crop up among Muslims. Christians seemed to come late to the game.
In fairness to them I think poor reporting by newspapers was responsible for the start of this trend. You know what mainstream media reporting of science is like.
god isn't natural so why should we expect a natural part to it's existence. and even if you point that out i still wouldn't care.... yeah dawah films just became PCS. way to go on this new level of creationism.
Nice video, however it's wasted on someone like dwaha. I tried to reason with him and there's just no getting though to him. He would rather put up a smokescreen and claim that all atheists are strong atheists who are like anti-theists, cause it's easier to do that, then to interact who (many aren't) like that.
Hell, he even thinks believing in a ghost that made everything is more rational then the way a atheist "views" the world. He's a twit.
"philosophy" I've got a brother just like Kevin. Tried engineering in school. Failed. Tried finance. Failed. Tried accounting. Failed.
So, now he's all about religion and philosophy. No nasty requirements to actually understand demanding reality (math or science). He can just spout a lot of pscho-babble and feel smug. He spends most of his time annoying the heck out of family and co-workers, trying to convince them of his superiority.
Are we going to be hearing a lot about Kevie, now?
@mirabileamavi I do not understand your comment. It could be taken more than one way.
Are you asking if I can watch and listen to Kevie and compare that to what my brother does and extrapolate, yes, I can. If it talks walks like a duck and quacks like a duck and looks like a duck, it's most likely a duck.
@curlew0609 i read off your comment this implicature: philosophy is not demanding. based on one instance and generalization from that instance. i guess now we have.. two instances?
@mirabileamavi "2 instances" No, the kind of philosophical plagarizing & parroting that Kevie does is not intellectually demanding. Anyone with access to Google & too much time on his hands can do it. Joseph Campbell, he is not.
Yes, one can generalize people's motives and actions. People are not as unique as we like to think we are. We tend to do the same things for the same reasons. If we were all one-offs, there would be no philosophy or psychology possible.
@curlew0609 aside from the smell of folk psychology i get your point. but there are lots of empathy for theories in cognitive science for everyone being unique. surely none of us have the exact same physical content as anyone else. but its also problematically to appeal to structural similarity.
anyhow, i don't know how 'kevie' can get away with 'p&p' at any respectable school. contrary to popular belief, one actually can't bs one's way through philosophy.
@mirabileamavi "everyone ...unique..physical content"" We are not unique. If we were, psychology and philosophy would be impossible studies. If we were even physically unique in the way you imply, drug therapy would be hopeless. We are humans with an impressive but limited number of tools in our kits.
Kevie is studying Islam (& goat entrails?). I do not know if he is going to a respectable school or not. Nor do I know anything about his grades. Do you know these things?
@curlew0609 say you are a physicalist and hold a token-identity theory, then you do want everyone to be unique! but we dont, thats fine too. we can however give put forward some constraints on publicity: think of the word 'red' and the sensation red (which a blind person dont have). now its generally accepted that the speaker's word carries information which can be decoded by the hearer. so the word 'red' communicated from one person to another may signify very different sensations
@mirabileamavi "want..unique" What we want is irrelevant. Reality is not constrained by what we want it to be.
"Red" Not quite sure where you are going with this. Are you aware of color psychology? The reaction to various colors has some predictability. Most people are calmed by blues and greens and stimulated by red. Yes, life experiences can lead to different associations, but that, too, is not a unique reaction.
@curlew0609 um, by want i meant whatever theoretical commitments you have and in this case, a token identity physicalism would commit you to position that everyone's mental happenings are all unique.
what psychological research have show is that systematically there are only 2-3 ways at most to explain color according to our behavioral output. it doesn't touch on the question of qualia at all.
@curlew0609 perhaps i'm assuming too much. ok, identity is a relation that something have with itself, i.e. a is identical with b iff all properties a have b also have and vice versa. so person a cannot be identical to person b unless they are the same person (think of spatial-temporal differentiations). since two people cannot be identical in the strict logical sense, we now have to say they are similar i.e. share more or less the same TYPE of genetic material.
... i took your argument to be about the similarity of our biological structure (genetic/evolutionary). so that we are not unique in the above sense. the color bits are suppose to show that despite similarity in structure, our qualia (w/e that is), is not sharable, hence it is private to the individual. this is pretty much the central debate in the cognitive sciences right now and there is no clear winner yet. but the arguments for our uniqueness is fairly convincing.
... (or qualia). there doesn't seem to be any way to test for the identity of those sensations between the speaker and hearer. it may turn out that my sensation of red -> utterance of the word 'red' -> your decoded sensation are different! right now its all speculation, we just dont have enough info on this point.
anyhow kevie seem to be doing theology and theology is definitely not the same as philosophy.
@mirabileamavi "red .. test" Yes, there are ways to test reaction to color. That's how we know that blue is calming and red is stimulating. There are actual physical reactions that can be tested.
"theology" I don't know where Kevie is going or what reputation the school has or what his academic standing is. There are schools, and there are schools. Have you read Kent Hovind's doctoral thesis? If you haven't it's on Youtube. He studied theology, too.
@curlew0609 yes, yes. we are talking past each other. i guess the problem i raised is too specialized. almost no one in the field of cog science (ai, linguistics, psych, neuroscience, phil of mind, etc.) think that this kind of test is conclusive or have any bearing whatsoever on qualia. the best attack is to say they are identical with brain states, but this is massively problematic and not supported by neuroscientific findings. or... we can revert back to behaviorism.
Hey, Ali, you left out the part where selective breeding FORCED a greater belief in deities over the last ~5000 years or so because anyone who openly admitted that they did not believe (AKA- the smart people), more often than not, got MURDERED and the rest tortured exiled.
@bamboo4tameshigiri "the smart people" The really smart ones stayed quiet about their own disbelief and used their savvy to take over the religion and manipulate the rest.
"This is all I have. There's no other tools in the tool box." (sic) One has to wonder how would the great discoveries of humanity ever be arrived at if we only relied on what seemed intuitively likely. Goodbye to relativity, and don't even think about quantum mechanics.
TruePooka, it is not at the point that someone wants to infringe that one needs to justify. It is the point that one suggests another should believe the same. This is actually a lower standard, as anyone wanting to infringe on the basis of that belief is by rote asserting that belief to be true and that others should conform accordingly, but it is only at the point that one wishes others to believe the same that they must justify the belief.
I find that his crux is largely the Pirahã argument. I mentioned this to him in a /user/watcherazazel video comment section almost a year ago, and he just stopped responding. I didn't press it because I know I planted the seed.
@DawahFilms Congratulations Dawah, you moron, you proved that our species has a temporal lobe. That's it. See: Temporal Lobe Epilepsy. Jesus, Joan of Arc, Mohammad, and several other cult leaders throughout history have had the medical condition. Its far more common than you might think.
@DawahFilms your just as valuable as any other human. Carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, hydrogen, silicon, phosphorous, iron, copper etc. You are nearly exactly the same value as somebody of similar build :3 Now if you can do something useful then you can increase that value.
@DawahFilms Infants have the potential to be useful and the elderly have a lifetime of experience that can be harnessed. Ergo infants and the elderly have uses above and beyond their chemical components. I said you can increase your worth by being useful didn't I. Morality doesn't enter into the equation at all o.O I'm more moral than the abrahamic god in this regard. Any human can be useful. Some just choose not to be :3 Even a vegetable of a human can provide insight into treating it ;D
Im sorry for being a little shocked at your comment, but you can understand why. Its difficult for me to think of people as valuable based on their "use".
@DawahFilms what other basis for value is there? A useless thing is a waste of resources and requires upgrading. I view religions the same way. If they are in the way they must be revised and upgraded.
THANK YOU! Love how you pointed out that human perception is not infallible. Socrates the greek philosopher was alluding to the same thing in his analogy of the cave.
Thisismyfirstopinion 2 weeks ago
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I don't think we are morally stunted I think our politicians are which tends to give the overall bad impression. The only problem is being smarter and more moral doesn't get the rich to fund your election and that's how these ass hats keep getting into office. wolf-pac(dot)com ;-)
MistressArte 1 month ago
Comment removed
MistressArte 1 month ago
I love how the True Pooka always seems to be on the brink of rage in his videos.
BillKiernan 2 months ago
So funny to see DawahFilms, first of all not in able to provide any evidence in the existence of god, second to degrade the believe in god to a mere biological brain phenomenon and act all smug about it. He just proved that believing in a god is biological not rational. Did he actually think he made a point?
isamu135 3 months ago
Well that was nice. Analytical, balanced, respectful and I learned something :) thanks for posting
ASKaPHYSICIST 3 months ago
Yes, mr dawah, this fucking 'evidence' thing is such a yawn. . until you get falsely accused of murder or similar, and the jury uses 'intuition' to 'feel' that you are guilty!
derek24hudson 3 months ago
America was founded by white CHRISTIAN men of integrity- not parasites like you Puke-a who are currently destroying it with your multicultural fag loving liberal pro abort anti christ spin. FACT
PROOF??? "Seek and ye shall find"- FACT#2. If you haven't found God, it's cause YOU AIN'T LOOKIN. And probably don't want to.
I looked, and I found. And the whole calendar is set around the life of Christ, bonehead. Darwin? Nope- DarLOSE
Gabe7King8ofrnr10 3 months ago
@Gabe7King8ofrnr10 "Seek and ye shall find" Strange.. Never heard a scientist say that. Either it's: 'here's the evidence' or 'I / We simply do not know (yet)'. Those are honest answers, gabe.
What should a judge do in court, when the prosecutor says: Well, he's clearly guilty. I looked for evidence and found them, now you, the judge, should do the same and you should come to the same conclusion, because I did.
It's just completely stupid to think like that.
Shangori 3 months ago
@Shangori "Seek me with all your heart, and I shall be found of thee."- THAT IS A PROMISE AND A FACT. I did it, and God honored that effort.
YOU AIN'T LOOKING and that is just plain bad science, to not INVESTIGATE that which you are claiming is not true!!!!
You have not read the Bible (like all the other nay sayers), and you have not dilligently sought the Lord in prayer with a humble heart. FACT
And still you "claim", he doesn't exist!
Gabe7King8ofrnr10 3 months ago
@Gabe7King8ofrnr10 Ah, the 'you need to believe, to believe' argument.
And shouting something is a fact, without backing it up with evidence makes the statement kinda void of any meaning
Shangori 3 months ago
@Gabe7King8ofrnr10
"THAT IS A PROMISE AND A FACT. I did it, and God honored that effort."
- except most of the time this doesnt happen and even when it allegedly does happen there is nothing to really to distinguish it from delusion
"YOU AIN'T LOOKING and that is just plain bad science, to not INVESTIGATE that which you are claiming..."
- NO, rejection is the logical default until evidence is presented, if YOU want to claim it as true then the burden of proof is on YOU to present evidence
types10000 2 months ago
@Gabe7King8ofrnr10
"You have not read the Bible (like all the other nay sayers),"
- you'll find that most atheists know more about the bible than most christians
if you want to turn someone atheist then make them read the bible :)
" and you have not dilligently sought the Lord in prayer with a humble heart"
- incorrect, myself and many others have done so and it doesnt work, furthermore you have no way of demonstrating your 'experience' actually occurred (not dellusion)
types10000 2 months ago
@Gabe7King8ofrnr10 "You have not read the Bible (like all the other nay sayers), and you have not dilligently sought the Lord in prayer with a humble heart. FACT"
Studies show atheists and agnostics know more about religion than theists.
Buuuut, I don't expect you to take my word for that. Look it up. It's as simple as typing "study religious knowledge" into google, and clicking the first link. It's easy.
Go on. You can do it.
Skindoggiedog 2 months ago
1:10 – 3:10
I would throw exactly the same argument you make at Dawah at you.
For example.
You acknowledge you are open to this when you make the positive claim about “infringing on personal liberty & individuality” & you address this point saying you would need to provide evidence, so you see it as a two way process, you demand justification of what he says, he demands justification of what you say………… so no problem there.
tmesist 3 months ago
@tmesist ............................... continued
However you also make a second positive claim that was unaddressed. You say Dawah must prove his argument, & later go on to demand Dawah must first define God.
tmesist 3 months ago
@tmesist .................... continued 2
2 points here, one you haven’t defined what evidence is & secondly if you are demanding evidence, surely you are not asking for an arbitrary proof but one that fits within a particular system of epistemology. I would ask you to justify your system of epistemology that defines your concept of legitimate evidence. Because in essence this is simply what you are asking Dawah to do & as we agreed before, justification is a two way street.
tmesist 3 months ago
@tmesist How can I define the evidence until he defines what it is the evidence is trying to show exists?
TheTruePooka 3 months ago
@TheTruePooka
You're sceptical of what he's says, thus have used a system of epistomology. Is the system of epistomology you are using to be sceptical of his words justifiable? If not your scepticism is not ligitimate. Establishing the ligitimacy of epistomology is the basis of this argument as you are both using different system by default assuming your own is correct. So I would ask both of you to stop assuming & justify, so I can decide which epistomology has more merits.
tmesist 3 months ago
@tmesist (shrug) I can provide evidence for the claims I put forward that demand an infringement of the liberty of others. For example;
"you cannot dump waste into the river because it poisons the water supply" i can show the direct result of the ill effects the poison causes.
But if you say; "god says don't dump waste in the river or he will smite you", why should I not dump waste if it is in my best interest and I have no evidence it will do harm or I will be smited? >.<
TheTruePooka 3 months ago 10
@TheTruePooka
But I didn't ask for that, as i pointed out earlier, you have already agreed you need to provide evidence for that.
OK Philosophy 101
Tell me why did you not simply take his words at face value & believe him unquestioningly?
Answer, you thought about what he said, analysed his words and saw flaws in what he said.
To do this you already in you mind had a complex & functioning system of thought, we call that an epistomology.
tmesist 3 months ago
@tmesist ..................... continued
But where did it come from, where born with it, was it taught to you, is it hard wired, does it come from language, is it correct, why do you presume it correct, are you using the same one as Dawah?
The crux of your debate with Dawah lays in the fact you are using 2 different epistomologies, just hearing you both speak it is clear.
I was just wondering why your's is correct?
tmesist 3 months ago
@tmesist Actually, you're trying to shift the debate into the area of epistemology. That wasn't the basis for the debate between myself & Dawah.
Dawah attempted to use empiricism to justify of his beliefs. I merely used empiricism to show he was wrong. :)
TheTruePooka 3 months ago
@TheTruePooka Every debate by definition occurs witin epistomolgy. You even brought cognitive science into the later part of your vid. Empiricism is an epistomology. As for Dawah I would judge his argument to be at best a very convoluted form of empiricism.
tmesist 3 months ago
@tmesist "Every debate by definition occurs within epistemology." yes, I'm aware of that. I'm familiar with the different branches of epistemology.
I was merely pointing out that you were attempting to roll back the debate to a very basic "define the nature of your reasoning" argument which wasn't really the starting point of the original debate.
TheTruePooka 3 months ago
@tmesist And yes - it was convoluted. It was an interesting effort by him though.
TheTruePooka 3 months ago
Dawah fails in his analysis of how an atheist might respond to an actual regrown limb. That has nothing to do with the POINT of mentioning that God's miracles never seem to include them.
If a god is said to perform all sorts of healing miracles then it is valid to point out that never in the history of "miracles" has a limb been regrown! Hell, he cures cancer and even brings back the "dead" - but can't regrow a missing arm? How I might respond to a restored limb is irrelevant.
AncientAtheist 3 months ago
I'm really not interested in anything Dawah has to say - but I WOULD like to hear him sing "Moonshadow".
Yeah, I suppose it was decent of him to be one of the few who actually gave you permission to use his clips, but isn't it possible that the only reason he did so is that he has been around here so long and had so many debates and arguments with secular channels that he knows damn well that saying "no" doesn't work?
AncientAtheist 3 months ago
all one has to do is go to Charlotte or Atlanta or LA and observe the worship of the monkey god....
realpqleur 3 months ago
It's quite funny how I debated with a muslim at my work about how he sees agency in things and this and that about Islam.
I explained that humans have an unfortunate tendency to imagine things due to our hyperactive imagination. I used lightning, earthquakes and tornadoes as an example. We know what causes all 3 and we can even predict when/where the last two will occur. Natural explanations for such things have replaced supernatural explanations. Religion is dishonest by definition.
Squiglypig 3 months ago 10
Thank you for that explanation of "assuming an agent." It appears that DawahFilms claim that "assuming the agent" is proof of the agent.
jamesmaseobrown 3 months ago
DawahFilms is an shithead, i was reasoning with him once and asked simple questions like "why jihad is violent" and why is his importance in epistemology so important and why he disagrees with science and guess what he said.
He called me(a 17yr old high schooler who has to do calculus for breakfast) an insult to education. CAN U FUKING BELIEVE IT, he then blocks me!!!
straighter100 3 months ago
Belief in god(s) wouldn't increase human survivability by itself - but rather the soaial bonds formed by believing in the same god/s as the rest of your tribe would.
This still doesn't mean belief in god(s) is rational. Belief in anything without evidence, in this day and age, is irrational. We've come a long way since it helped tie our tribes together...
Vehementi 3 months ago
I disagree, even if you live your life quietly you need to back up your believes. Especially since people tend to vote according to their believes.
CrimsonRefractions 3 months ago
@Godisn0tgreat
You are aware that empiricism is an epistemological belief system, (read: philosophy) and that what we call "Science" is only but a branch of philosophy, right?
Mostlyharmless1985 3 months ago
Did he just invoke a very near Cartesian dualistic argument and then lament at the state of American philosophy? I thought neuroscience pretty much destroyed any hope of the form of dualism that dawah wants and believes in.
Mostlyharmless1985 3 months ago
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Damn. DawahFilms is hot.
WhiteKnitter 3 months ago
Comment removed
WhiteKnitter 3 months ago
Why do you need their permission to use content from their videos anyway? Isnt it protected under fair use?
TheLordOfTheSporks 3 months ago
Philosophy is interesting but is just a form of mental masturbation. Give me cold hard empirical science any day!
Godisn0tgreat 3 months ago
"America is an intellectually stunted country when it comes to philosophy"
I disagree that it has to do with America. Richard Dawkins is British, and his philosophy is very weak. He's a brilliant biologist, but horrible philosopher. I'm not trying to say that atheists are philosophically weak, though.... theists are just as bad.
I miss the old atheist philosophers.. like Bertrand Russel and Nietzsche.
BlackWolf4830 3 months ago
I gotta give Dawah credit for responding to criticism, some of which is pretty abuse.
tex959 3 months ago
In his video Kevin says "Athiests are just playing word games when they say they believe in the possibilty of the existence of god, they don't believe it's even possible". That is total and complete horse shit right there. Dawahfilms video isn't even his own original idea, he ripped it off some other goofballs video on the internet just like VenomFangX did with Kent Hovind, his video isn't really even worth a serious response if you ask me.
DarkFantasyvids 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@DarkFantasyvids I've been calling him the muslim venomfagx for a while now. I guess its absolutely fitting now.
bamboo4tameshigiri 3 months ago
His name is Kevin, not Assadullah Ali.
DarkFantasyvids 3 months ago
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@DarkFantasyvids Thanks for that.
bamboo4tameshigiri 3 months ago
@DarkFantasyvids
A Man has a right to choose his own name, even if it's different from the one he's born with. I still think of Cat Stevens, as Cat Stevens, but if I met the man, I'd call him Yusaf.
If you'd met Mohammed Ali, would you have called him Cassius Clay?
TheBoyFromNorfolk 3 months ago
I wonder if Dawah can understand that the history of leaders and tyrants killing off those bold enough to decent and question would, over time, make it an evolutionary beneficial to not question such things, making it evolutionary hard wired trait. It has a feel of a self fulfilling prophesy as the historical blood-letting of rebels sort of directed evolution of mankind so that they would be predisposed to it. It would be like saying being short is right if we killed anyone over 6 ft previously.
dragonmatt5 3 months ago
People like Dawah who have (likely) never suffered from mental health issues really don't understand how fragile our perception of the world is. Be it our understanding of this around us, our ability to process data or just the way our senses function. I doubt he's ever had to question his reality to a strong degree and listening to him it sounds like he's very happy he doesn't have to question himself.
Otokogoroshi 3 months ago
@Otokogoroshi Well, its patently obvious he has never taken any psychology classes. He always dwells in the fairy land of mental masturbation: philosophy. More often than not, he degrades even that nonsense all the way down to pure sophistry.
bamboo4tameshigiri 3 months ago
1:03 I'm not from England! :)
squirreljester2 3 months ago
I see how Ali ignored me when I explained the medical condition his "prophet" was suffering from. See: Temporal Lobe Epilepsy. Yeah, that's right, extreme religiosity is a MENTAL DISORDER. Jesus, Joan of Arc, Mohammad, and many many other cult leaders suffered from it. Its actually pretty common, some just are effected by it a LOT more than others. He also ignored the fact intelligent nonbelievers GET KILLED and have for thousands of years- forcing a breeding selection FOR the defect.
bamboo4tameshigiri 3 months ago
@bamboo4tameshigiri
I have a video against that already. So no, I didnt ignore you...you just didn't care to look at my videos.
DawahFilms 3 months ago
@DawahFilms I don't watch mythological bullshit. I already spent too many years reading the books. I'm not wasting another second of my life listening to the ramblings of a cult or its members, especially a desert dwelling death cult. ALL abrahamic faiths are EVIL to their core. They have caused more pain, suffering and death than the plague and aids combined. NONE of them have ANY proof to back up ANY of their metaphysical claims. Its bronze age goat herding meteorite worshipping bullshit.
bamboo4tameshigiri 3 months ago
@bamboo4tameshigiri
Right...
So your justification for claiming Im ignoring you even though I made a video refuting that claim is to claim that my refutation is not worth listening to (close mindedness ftw) and stuff about evil, pain, broze, and goats.
Makes perfect sense.
DawahFilms 3 months ago
@DawahFilms
Dawah, there is a problem with your refutation of old man Mo having epilepsy, temporal lobe epilepsy do produce auditory and complex visual hallucination. That do sounds more like what that person was suffering.
Atharkas 3 months ago
@DawahFilms Here's the thing so called "Lion of God" you can believe in whatever stupid shit you like and for whatever reason you like but don't expect me to believe it or think you are rational for believing it OK. Without evidence it is just your belief. Nothing more than that and I think that is an irrational position for you to take and I have every reason to think as well as say so. Mohammad did not fly to paradise on a winged horse and if you believe he did then you will believe anything
SUNSHINEYNIGHT 3 months ago
If you assume there's a mugger in the bushes their might actually be one. And muggers can harm people.
Haven't heard the supernatural harming people in any way if they investigate. Believers in said supernatural , are a different story altogether and are sadly capable of harm ....
gaglamesh731 3 months ago
Interesting vid.
"So, to claim that there is an alternate reality outside of what we can perceive, is rather ludicrous." Okay, I'll go along with what he said there.
It shoots his argument right in the noggin, though.
phenixwryter 3 months ago
So by the logic of Dawah...everything supernatural that humans have invented...are true?
Since we "biologically" believe in them?
MikaelDryden 3 months ago
Can we declare your cat as a new god.
I'm getting tired of the Christian god, and would prefer something that at least exists.
republicofsandles 3 months ago
I'm not convinced the scientific method does assume Natural causes.
TheMogulmonster 3 months ago
12:47 This is not Arabic , the program you used has reversed the letters.
MusicianUnderground 3 months ago
12:47 Um, translate, please?
FancyPocketWatch 3 months ago
Doesn't Ali's toolbox have the ability to notice that this biological bias to assume agency in unknown situations is almost always wrong? Was it wrong to presume that some agency caused disease? Yes, the demon theory of disease was wrong for thousands of years because religion taught people to not look for natural causes. It is always wrong to assume supernatural causes without complete knowledge of all natural causes.
8WholeThing 3 months ago
(con't) Whereas, if you see beliefs as merely an extension of curiosity, a failed attempt to explain the world these cultures instantly fall into perspective. They simply never ask the questions a curious people with time to kill would ask because their environment has never allowed them the time to ponder those questions. Hunter-gatherer cultures don't create many superstitions, or pursue science because they don't have the time, or inclination to do so.
randomizer1666 3 months ago
The problem I have with the entire 'dualist evolutionary advantage' argument is that it fails to account for tribes like the Piraha which not only do not have any supernatural beliefs but also have difficulty grasping why anyone else would. Their entire culture exists in the metaphorical 'now' they don't believe in life after death, gods (not even having a word for the concept), or external purpose. These types of cultures are simply unexplainable under the 'agency helps survival' claim.
randomizer1666 3 months ago
That's a crazy argument from Ali. Surely the fact that we have a predisposition to believe in the supernatural should make us skeptical of supernatural claims.
When large numbers of people believe in a supernatural claim, we know that they because of their built-in predisposition they will be inclined to hold that belief *regardless* of whether it is true or not. Therefore, logically, the fact that they hold that belief is not evidence for the claim. For that we must look elsewhere.
InvincibleIronyMan 3 months ago
Dawah;
(paraphrase) [ I see intention, agency, dualism ... ]
No, you imagine supernatural intention, agency, and dual states. If you could see them, they'd be natural and accessible to investigation and falsification.
Dream0Asylum 3 months ago 19
If religiosity is based in our biology/psychology then that is contrary to Dawahfilm's conclusion: it is actually an argument against the independent existence of god, separately from our psychological needs for being contained in a meaningful cosmos. My own atheism in fact is based on such a psychological argument: belief in any supernatural existence is the false resolution of the cognitive dissonance between our biological imperative to survive and our knowledge of finite existence.
eydos 3 months ago
@eydos Our earliest forms of religion were ancestor worship and totemism, neither of which holds a belief in the supernatural or in gods. The spirits of the ancestors, and the spirits invested in totems were believed to be part of this world, not the supernatural. Ancestor worship is an attempt to hold on to intergenerational knowledge after its holder is dead, and totemism is an irrational attempt to get more out of natural resources than is immediately apparent.
pirbird14 3 months ago
@pirbird14 Indeed.
Still, even in ancestor worship and totemism there are elements of a need for an ordered universe that ought to exist for our convenience. The instinctual pushing of organisms to survive can manifest on a psychological level in many forms once conscious awareness is present in the human animal. The more complex the human neocortex became, the more lies were needed to suppress the tragic character of existence.
eydos 3 months ago
@eydos I would suggest that a great deal of the "tragic character of existence" can be attributed to the difference between what we feel inside and the the behaviours society expects from us. Not only are these behaviours idealized to the point where it is impossible to live up to them, they are often expected to be entirely natural, requiring no explanation. For instance, gender roles, or filial affections are entirely natural, etc. When we fail to live up to expectations, we are punished.
pirbird14 3 months ago
@pirbird14 Of course the structural aggression of society for compliance coupled with unjust economic/political systems and the promotion of unrealistic life-programs enhances the dramatic and the cruelly banal in many people's lives. But I also claim a more fundamental tragedy, coinciding with our very blossoming to awareness about our place in the world, the following attempt of compromise leads to denial, which next leads to socially empowered, defensive mental constructs such as religiosity.
eydos 3 months ago
I know Unicorns do not exist. Therefore I think being a professor of Unicorns is a waste fo time. Philosophy concerning Yaweh, his existence and nature is equally a waste of time. It oes not work. Ever. Been tried. Failed. Philosophy concerning the nature of existence, the id etc may have some use other than mental masturbation but until it comes up with something concrete and useable I am not personally intereted. Where philosophy crosses with physics concerning the beginning of existence is OK
NoFaithNoPain 3 months ago
I disagree with Dawah about us being hard wired to believe in the supernatural. The awareness of the supernatural (or anything else come to think of it) is only brought about by exposure to it's existence (be it real or not) by others.
If there were never any ghost stories ever in history then people would not "experience" ghosts. Same goes for religion & gods. What Dawah says is only true when ancients were more ignorant of their world. Unnatural explanations always get replaced by natural.
pilgrimpater 3 months ago
oh please! Dawah/Ali is a sick bag
tricklessmagic 3 months ago
When did Dawah change his delivery style to preening, smug twat?
MacktheKnife192 3 months ago
LMAO at the last paragraph of your comment section.
Anyway, Dawah got himself quite a response. Four people that I am subscribed to alone.
Evilanious 3 months ago
Wait... I thought it was "I say respectfully to you, 'go pet the cat' "
JustAnotherMutant 3 months ago
Juggling with Jezus? = Win. Great video Pooka, really gentle and thorogh delivery!
ONESPECIES 3 months ago
Well, I must congratulate Dawahfilms for great argument for existence of monsters living under beds... :)
KristoffDoe 3 months ago 49
@KristoffDoe LMAO!!!
strangestdude 3 months ago
Dawah,
Why do you get so riled up by you tube comments? You Muslims have a saying, "Insha'Allah." I'm an atheist, but I've always liked that saying. I think of it as an Arab/ Islamic way of saying "let it be." What meaning does that phrase hold for you?
dpclayburn 3 months ago
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DawahFilms 3 months ago
Can I get a link to some work done by that lady doing the language -- point of view?
rampaginwalrus 3 months ago
@rampaginwalrus Lera Boroditsky.
She's at Stanford. Google for her & Stanford - that should pull up a list of her research papers. Otherwise I believe she has an paper in Scientific American. 2011 - on Language & Thought.February issue or March.
I'll have to double check that.
TheTruePooka 3 months ago
@TheTruePooka if u want to get attention, u did
LieExtinguisher 3 months ago
@TheTruePooka; thanks
rampaginwalrus 3 months ago
Good video mate.
neomysterio 3 months ago
While I disagree that this is evidence for the existence of a god, Dawah is right that there are Atheists out there that will rationalize away any evidence for the gods.
Just as an experiment, any Atheist reading this please answer this.
If a god appeared in front of you would you. . .
A) accept the existence of that god
B) accept the existence of all gods
C) assume someone is playing a joke
D) assume you are going insane
E) other (please explain)
OtherGonzo 3 months ago
@OtherGonzo How would the atheist know this is a God? Does it say it? Does he look like one? If so, what does a god look like? Would he perform miracles? If so, what kind of miracle? Please elaborate.
Either way, you can't expect all Atheists to share the same standards for evidence. I know one who became a Christian because her alarm clock turned on by itself.
ZeerosFate 3 months ago
@OtherGonzo when that god presents evidence that he is indeed a god, i will accept him being a god.
Aanthanur 3 months ago
@OtherGonzo It would depend on the level of evidence. Someone saying they are a god isn't proof of anything. That guy at Waco said he was the messiah, when clearly he was just some nutter. I would have to be able to test the claim before I would accept or dismiss it. If the god refused to be tested, I would dismiss it.
BrotherAlpha 3 months ago
@OtherGonzo
Define - "god".
KristoffDoe 3 months ago
Even if Dawah is right about the science and this proves god exists, he still would have to provide evidence HIS god exists.
BrotherAlpha 3 months ago
@BrotherAlpha Exactly. The Deist argument. The core foundation of Theism, yet unproven past a 50% certainty. Many theist scholars have attempted to raise this number using complex mathematical equations (like William Lane Craig) only to be refuted by average joes in uTube in their spare time. Why this fact hasn't sparked a trace of doubt on religious apologists is a mystery to me.
ZeerosFate 3 months ago
The arabic is mirrored and translates to: The best category (?) أما الفئة المفضلة
Pet the cat would translate to : داعب القطة or امسح على القطة
nice vid btw :D
Voidic 3 months ago
@Voidic *shakes fist at google translate*
TheTruePooka 3 months ago
@TheTruePooka I blame allah for not making his mother tongue internetable. Hi from the middle-east
Voidic 3 months ago
Funny how Dawah uses a scientific hypothesis (not even a theory), which wholly relies on the theory of evolution, which wholly relies on an old earth and natural changes, which are completely at odds with the Abrahamic religions...to prove that God is real. Seriously?!
Dawah. Here's some advice. Go to Afghanistan to fight the U.S. so we can get a predator drone to bomb your ass without remorse. I'm simply tired of your existence.
Rationalific 3 months ago
@Rationalific
1) I believe in old earth and theory of evolution.
2) Your last comment reeks of bigotry and I do hope that you yourself go to Afghanistan so that you can get your teen agression out and eventually accidentally step on a mine, thus becoming YT entertainment in the genre of "stupid".
DawahFilms 3 months ago
@DawahFilms Sorry mate my quran says that man came out of clay..
Blasphemer..
Bring the robe laddies..
AmetReloads 3 months ago
@AmetReloads
Sorry Amet, your level of reading comprehension is about as spectacular as a vegetables.
So, let me ask, why don't you ever show your face in your videos? Perhaps you're the one in need of a robe because you're far too ugly to get any sort of attention?
Im assuming thats why you're always commenting to me. Jealous much?
DawahFilms 3 months ago
@DawahFilms hmm i see you have been taking philosophy in the kindergarten too..
You deny the holy qu-rrrr-an..?
You deny that adam came from clay?
you deny the Rasullalah's words?
Apostasy apostasy...
bring the rope boys..
AmetReloads 3 months ago
@AmetReloads
Come on Amet, say something. Tell us what you do. What are you doing to help the worlds problems? What are YOU doing to help the Muslim world?
Come on buddy, its okay. Dont be shy. Let's see what you have to say.
*waits patiently for the obvious*
DawahFilms 3 months ago
@DawahFilms I actually engaged in plenty of activism when i was younger(although we are about the same age) ..
the real question is what did you ever do to support Muslims rights ,dodo? ..other than embarrassing Muslims worldwide with your actions..
Well lets not answer the obvious..
If you want tickets for the new 'free gaza' flottila i can get them for you tomorrow..
..but you ll have to bring your own knife..
..You know so you can put your feet where your mouth is..
AmetReloads 3 months ago
@AmetReloads
Activism when you were younger? You're about the same age as me? So what you're telling me is that you do NOTHING now.
The real question? Oh, thats easy and Im PROUD to announce it to the world. I go to a university where I am planning to eventually become a professor. I also do political activism NOW. I took part in the protests recently here in Malaysia. I also work with scholars surrounding the Arab Spring and Im about to have an academic article published.
How about you?!
DawahFilms 3 months ago
@DawahFilms so you took part to the "death to apostates"rally and you ll publish to the jihadist journal your article in favor of fascism in middle east.. good for you..
I dont see what right do you have as an american, to meddle into foreign countries internal matters, but how about some real activism dodo..?
..some field work, maybe?
Gaza has abundance of Islamists, but maybe you could offer some work in a health provider mission..
..Or you could put your waxed chest...
AmetReloads 3 months ago
@AmetReloads ... in between the Israeli soldiers and Palestinians protesters..
..come on if little infidel girls can do it, so can the lion of islam..
come on aslan,gaza has spectacular beaches too it will be fun..
AmetReloads 3 months ago
@AmetReloads
Evasive Amie and your silly delusions. You always make me smile :)
DawahFilms 3 months ago
@AmetReloads
Evasive as usual. Unsupported assumptions...AS USUAL.
To hide your pathetic life. I took part in a rally for equal voting rights and economic rights for all Malaysian citizens. I got a canister of tear gas only a few feet away from me and a couple of cops trying to beat me with sticks. Once again, proud of that. Im getting published in a book from my university.
Once again, not ashamed at all to say this.
You, on the contrary, seem to be ashamed to say anything about you.
DawahFilms 3 months ago
@DawahFilms "..I got a canister of tear gas only a few feet away from me and a couple of cops trying to beat me with sticks"
Oh oh Ok roza park.
..So your big activism is experiencing what every freshmen student in Europe has...?
By american standards, since you dont have protest over there, i guess you are know elevated your experiences to those of a poor mexican immigrant..
..is that you big activism medal , kevin..?
Whigga did i catch you being a Mexican?
AmetReloads 3 months ago
@AmetReloads
Im sorry, Amet, Im afraid I dont think you're important enough to ever get tickets to such a thing (if such ever existed).
Yeah, lets mock whats happening in Gaza Amet! You like it when people are oppressed? Dont do what you usually do now by trying to point the finger at Muslims. Answer the question. Please tell us DIRECTLY what your views are on the Gazan people and their plight. We'd REALLY love to see what you think of it.
DawahFilms 3 months ago
@AmetReloads
How about this, Amet. I'll let you redeem yourself. You wanna help? I can give you some advice on how to help the Muslim world and get you off your ass to actually do something useful instead of spending the majority of your time on YT.
How does that sound for a deal?
DawahFilms 3 months ago
@AmetReloads
Come on boy. Tell us! What are you waiting for, son?
You embarrassed?
DawahFilms 3 months ago
@DawahFilms I'm pretty sure you blocked me a long time ago, so I'll keep this short.
The End
Rationalific 3 months ago
I think if someone said " GOD HEAL ALL AMPUTEES" And they were all healed at once, there would be validation to consider god as opposed to one person or one incident.
mullen2105 3 months ago
"There's no other tools in the toolbox", he says. That's amusing, because we all know the reason why he has no other tools in the toolbox is that he takes up all the tool space all by himself.
I just called you a tool, Dawah.
The sad fact that you -see- intention and purpose does not mean -there is- purpose. This is the core flaw in your entire argument. I can see a face in a cloud, that doesn't mean the cloud has a face. From what you say, you not only see a face, but think it's a person
EdwardHowton 3 months ago
You have a refreshing take on stuff, Pooka. Always interesting to watch.
I've always heard the "biological compulsion to agency detection" as evidence that God probably DOESN'T exist, since it's exactly the kind of thing we would imagine, given our evolutionary history. Surprising to see it stretched to support that belief is the default position... we evolved to see the truth that Wotan exists? Bizarre.
C0nc0rdance 3 months ago
@C0nc0rdance I've been watching this approach develop over the past year or so. I noticed it first crop up among Muslims. Christians seemed to come late to the game.
In fairness to them I think poor reporting by newspapers was responsible for the start of this trend. You know what mainstream media reporting of science is like.
TheTruePooka 3 months ago
are you still planning on making a video about voluntarism?
paradoarify 3 months ago
@paradoarify Eventually. Like Pooh-bear I must sit on my stump and have a good think over it. :)
TheTruePooka 3 months ago
god isn't natural so why should we expect a natural part to it's existence. and even if you point that out i still wouldn't care.... yeah dawah films just became PCS. way to go on this new level of creationism.
overlordcacius 3 months ago
Well done, Pooka
SiriusMined 3 months ago
He doesn't understand that he's made the naturalistic fallacy right in the beginning.
SiriusMined 3 months ago
bravo
Godlesshayes 3 months ago
great job Pooka!
kelliko70 3 months ago
Nice video, however it's wasted on someone like dwaha. I tried to reason with him and there's just no getting though to him. He would rather put up a smokescreen and claim that all atheists are strong atheists who are like anti-theists, cause it's easier to do that, then to interact who (many aren't) like that.
Hell, he even thinks believing in a ghost that made everything is more rational then the way a atheist "views" the world. He's a twit.
Krensharpaw 3 months ago
"philosophy" I've got a brother just like Kevin. Tried engineering in school. Failed. Tried finance. Failed. Tried accounting. Failed.
So, now he's all about religion and philosophy. No nasty requirements to actually understand demanding reality (math or science). He can just spout a lot of pscho-babble and feel smug. He spends most of his time annoying the heck out of family and co-workers, trying to convince them of his superiority.
Are we going to be hearing a lot about Kevie, now?
curlew0609 3 months ago
@curlew0609 generalize on one instance?...
mirabileamavi 3 months ago
@mirabileamavi I do not understand your comment. It could be taken more than one way.
Are you asking if I can watch and listen to Kevie and compare that to what my brother does and extrapolate, yes, I can. If it talks walks like a duck and quacks like a duck and looks like a duck, it's most likely a duck.
curlew0609 3 months ago
@curlew0609 i read off your comment this implicature: philosophy is not demanding. based on one instance and generalization from that instance. i guess now we have.. two instances?
mirabileamavi 3 months ago
@mirabileamavi "2 instances" No, the kind of philosophical plagarizing & parroting that Kevie does is not intellectually demanding. Anyone with access to Google & too much time on his hands can do it. Joseph Campbell, he is not.
Yes, one can generalize people's motives and actions. People are not as unique as we like to think we are. We tend to do the same things for the same reasons. If we were all one-offs, there would be no philosophy or psychology possible.
curlew0609 3 months ago
@curlew0609 aside from the smell of folk psychology i get your point. but there are lots of empathy for theories in cognitive science for everyone being unique. surely none of us have the exact same physical content as anyone else. but its also problematically to appeal to structural similarity.
anyhow, i don't know how 'kevie' can get away with 'p&p' at any respectable school. contrary to popular belief, one actually can't bs one's way through philosophy.
mirabileamavi 3 months ago
@mirabileamavi "everyone ...unique..physical content"" We are not unique. If we were, psychology and philosophy would be impossible studies. If we were even physically unique in the way you imply, drug therapy would be hopeless. We are humans with an impressive but limited number of tools in our kits.
Kevie is studying Islam (& goat entrails?). I do not know if he is going to a respectable school or not. Nor do I know anything about his grades. Do you know these things?
curlew0609 3 months ago
@curlew0609 say you are a physicalist and hold a token-identity theory, then you do want everyone to be unique! but we dont, thats fine too. we can however give put forward some constraints on publicity: think of the word 'red' and the sensation red (which a blind person dont have). now its generally accepted that the speaker's word carries information which can be decoded by the hearer. so the word 'red' communicated from one person to another may signify very different sensations
mirabileamavi 3 months ago
@mirabileamavi "want..unique" What we want is irrelevant. Reality is not constrained by what we want it to be.
"Red" Not quite sure where you are going with this. Are you aware of color psychology? The reaction to various colors has some predictability. Most people are calmed by blues and greens and stimulated by red. Yes, life experiences can lead to different associations, but that, too, is not a unique reaction.
curlew0609 3 months ago
@curlew0609 um, by want i meant whatever theoretical commitments you have and in this case, a token identity physicalism would commit you to position that everyone's mental happenings are all unique.
what psychological research have show is that systematically there are only 2-3 ways at most to explain color according to our behavioral output. it doesn't touch on the question of qualia at all.
mirabileamavi 3 months ago
@curlew0609 perhaps i'm assuming too much. ok, identity is a relation that something have with itself, i.e. a is identical with b iff all properties a have b also have and vice versa. so person a cannot be identical to person b unless they are the same person (think of spatial-temporal differentiations). since two people cannot be identical in the strict logical sense, we now have to say they are similar i.e. share more or less the same TYPE of genetic material.
mirabileamavi 3 months ago
... i took your argument to be about the similarity of our biological structure (genetic/evolutionary). so that we are not unique in the above sense. the color bits are suppose to show that despite similarity in structure, our qualia (w/e that is), is not sharable, hence it is private to the individual. this is pretty much the central debate in the cognitive sciences right now and there is no clear winner yet. but the arguments for our uniqueness is fairly convincing.
mirabileamavi 3 months ago
... (or qualia). there doesn't seem to be any way to test for the identity of those sensations between the speaker and hearer. it may turn out that my sensation of red -> utterance of the word 'red' -> your decoded sensation are different! right now its all speculation, we just dont have enough info on this point.
anyhow kevie seem to be doing theology and theology is definitely not the same as philosophy.
mirabileamavi 3 months ago
@mirabileamavi "red .. test" Yes, there are ways to test reaction to color. That's how we know that blue is calming and red is stimulating. There are actual physical reactions that can be tested.
"theology" I don't know where Kevie is going or what reputation the school has or what his academic standing is. There are schools, and there are schools. Have you read Kent Hovind's doctoral thesis? If you haven't it's on Youtube. He studied theology, too.
curlew0609 3 months ago
@curlew0609 yes, yes. we are talking past each other. i guess the problem i raised is too specialized. almost no one in the field of cog science (ai, linguistics, psych, neuroscience, phil of mind, etc.) think that this kind of test is conclusive or have any bearing whatsoever on qualia. the best attack is to say they are identical with brain states, but this is massively problematic and not supported by neuroscientific findings. or... we can revert back to behaviorism.
mirabileamavi 3 months ago
Hey, Ali, you left out the part where selective breeding FORCED a greater belief in deities over the last ~5000 years or so because anyone who openly admitted that they did not believe (AKA- the smart people), more often than not, got MURDERED and the rest tortured exiled.
bamboo4tameshigiri 3 months ago
@bamboo4tameshigiri "the smart people" The really smart ones stayed quiet about their own disbelief and used their savvy to take over the religion and manipulate the rest.
curlew0609 3 months ago
@curlew0609 The smart EVIL ones, yes.
bamboo4tameshigiri 3 months ago
Comment removed
bamboo4tameshigiri 3 months ago
"This is all I have. There's no other tools in the tool box." (sic) One has to wonder how would the great discoveries of humanity ever be arrived at if we only relied on what seemed intuitively likely. Goodbye to relativity, and don't even think about quantum mechanics.
MsMrNoface 3 months ago
TruePooka, it is not at the point that someone wants to infringe that one needs to justify. It is the point that one suggests another should believe the same. This is actually a lower standard, as anyone wanting to infringe on the basis of that belief is by rote asserting that belief to be true and that others should conform accordingly, but it is only at the point that one wishes others to believe the same that they must justify the belief.
balanceseeker 3 months ago
damn 15 second comercial? thats balszy
GallusSapien 3 months ago
I find that his crux is largely the Pirahã argument. I mentioned this to him in a /user/watcherazazel video comment section almost a year ago, and he just stopped responding. I didn't press it because I know I planted the seed.
ReignbowSmite 3 months ago
ali makes my fucking skin crawl. wound up so tight if you stuck a piece of coal up his ass he'd shit out a diamond.
BillKiernan 3 months ago
@BillKiernan
That's nice. A lot of you make me embarrassed to be human sometimes. When I come on YT Im reminded of how horribly I was treated back in the states.
I guess that explains why I'm always "wound up", because Im always reminded how less valuable my life is among certain "civilized" people.
DawahFilms 3 months ago
@DawahFilms ok Cat Stevens.
BillKiernan 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@DawahFilms Congratulations Dawah, you moron, you proved that our species has a temporal lobe. That's it. See: Temporal Lobe Epilepsy. Jesus, Joan of Arc, Mohammad, and several other cult leaders throughout history have had the medical condition. Its far more common than you might think.
bamboo4tameshigiri 3 months ago
@DawahFilms your just as valuable as any other human. Carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, hydrogen, silicon, phosphorous, iron, copper etc. You are nearly exactly the same value as somebody of similar build :3 Now if you can do something useful then you can increase that value.
PinkProgram 3 months ago 3
@PinkProgram *you're* typo repaired.
PinkProgram 3 months ago
@PinkProgram
Oh, so infants aren't useful? Old people aren't useful? You're basing value on USEFULNESS of people?
So much for morality.
DawahFilms 3 months ago
@DawahFilms Infants have the potential to be useful and the elderly have a lifetime of experience that can be harnessed. Ergo infants and the elderly have uses above and beyond their chemical components. I said you can increase your worth by being useful didn't I. Morality doesn't enter into the equation at all o.O I'm more moral than the abrahamic god in this regard. Any human can be useful. Some just choose not to be :3 Even a vegetable of a human can provide insight into treating it ;D
PinkProgram 3 months ago
@PinkProgram
Im sorry for being a little shocked at your comment, but you can understand why. Its difficult for me to think of people as valuable based on their "use".
DawahFilms 3 months ago
@DawahFilms what other basis for value is there? A useless thing is a waste of resources and requires upgrading. I view religions the same way. If they are in the way they must be revised and upgraded.
PinkProgram 3 months ago
@PinkProgram
I think its dangerous to rely primarily on pragmatics to assess value. Im just saying...it seems to me that practicality is entirely subjective.
DawahFilms 3 months ago