Brilliant! I didn't know who it was narrating, and first thought it was Richard Burton, sounds very like him to my ear, but I'm really glad I found this today, this guy makes a lot of sense.
great vid, had to fave it. The individual used to be the enemy of the masses, murderers, rapists, other scum. Now the masses are the enemy of the individual. You don't dare go against the grain, reject the flavour of the day. Perhaps it has always been that way, as the video purports.
It's kinda moot now though because Consumerism is dying out as the large swathe of consumers can no longer work due to out-sourcing, downsizing, technological advancement, Globalism, illegal immigration and high-turnover, low-paid work.
It's hard not to be, isnt it? I guess the key to non compliance is to be noticeably not playing along, rather than just avoiding notice. I've been avoiding notice lately...but noticeably avoiding notice- been knee deep in soil, digging and growing veg.... its a non consumer revolution!! lol ...and it screws up your back!! ;-)
@TheSpartacat I had big garden plans this year, but two moves in two months have kind of shot that in the foot. That's okay, I have a large cannister of non-GMO seeds for next year, and a large, sunny yard to grow things in.
thanks you, thank you, thank you!! it's been several years since i've read watts, i definitely needed the reminder! the footage with the audio was beautiful as well. i've always prided myself in being a rebel, not a hermit, because a rebel needs closer contact in order to rebel. a hermit is beautiful because he exists, no need for statements, or actions. rebels have too much pride/ego. your vid is food for thought. THANK YOU!!!
Hi there! Long time no see! I've got videos of yours to catch up on!
I know what ya mean- a rebel needs to be engaged with everything else in order to be in opposition- it has to play the game of opposites, which is a game of ego... whereas a hermit simply doesnt play. Looking at society, i feel that non-compliance and not playing is the way to bring the machine to its knees- which i guess is a form of rebellion too, on a deeper level- to not play at all.
@TheSpartacat you hit the nail on the head. just hearing this audio clip confirms something that i've been thinking alot about lately. my version of "rebelling against the system" actually keeps it going. but "to not play" is a much better idea. plus, i've been looking deeper into the life of the greatest "rebel" of them all (the messiah) and deep and beautiful doors have opened for me ... thanks again for the vid. it's a blessing!
Hello! I've only discovered Mr Watts fairly recently- I really like him- he has such enthusiasm for whatever he's talking about.... can kinda imagine that if he was still around I'd have a great chinwag with him- my brain hovers around similar lines of thought. :-)
Are you fecking kidding me??? LAST NIGHT, for the first time in MONTHS I type Alan Watts into the seach thing to see if there is anything new and it was an excerpt from this talk that I listened to.
I closed my eyes and listened with a smile. I can only speak for myself by saying I am aware that I am a sentient being and that I love myself, and all that I manifest in to this world will be from unconditional love of All.
Have you seen the sky over London today? Beoootiful!! I was getting a crick neck looking at it! :-) Funny thing how, when you look upwards, other people also look up to find out what you're looking at. Curious or nosey... Sadly i think many looked and didnt see.
I don't like Alan Watts. I 'm sorry to be obnoxious about this, but I want to add a caveat for people...traditionally you are supposed to have a teacher to guide you, and its pretty obviously why. Ideas like "you don't exist" or, "you should eliminate desire" can really cause alot of damage. A very respected Buddhist teacher of ancient times, Nagarjuna compared the dangers of misunderstanding these ideas to picking up a poisonous snake incorrectly. And if you are looking for these concepts
out of deep pain, I'd say misunderstanding is practically guaranteed. When I look at Alan Watts versus say Lama Tharchin Rinpoche, I see something in the latter that feels right. In my experience, thinking about these kinds of ideas, doesn't show you the way. Being with teachers does. at wiki:
Watts has been criticized by Buddhists such as Roshi Philip Kapleau, John Daido Loori, and D. T. Suzuki for allegedly misinterpreting several key concepts of Zen Buddhism.
@givebirthathome They're just ideas, do with them what you will! Personally I don't see that because there is a particular tradition amongst a particular group of people that that means we are "supposed" to do things that way, there'd never be any kind of progress if that were the case! To me externalising your power and handing it over to a guru or teacher is where the "danger" lies, this is in part because there is no "the way", it's all about finding your own way. Peace.
@ccodling Handing power over to an exploitative teacher is dangerous, but so is attempting to learn certain things without one. Life is one judgement call after another. Peace.
Hmm, I'm having to really ponder how to reply to this. You're welcome to your opinion, of course- but this video is not about Buddhism at all... whereas that is all your comment focuses on. But there’s a reason for most things, so I can only respond to what you DID say.
Alan Watts is a philosopher, not a Buddhist teacher, so your caveat is a bit like warning people not to use a rope to hammer in a nail.
I listen to Alan for his philosophisical ideas, which cover lots of areas
There are many ideas that can cause a lot of damage. My own opinion is that the human tendency to look for a doctrine/ right answer to follow is one of the most damaging. Buddhism has no doctrine has it?
The word “teach” is derived from Tæcan; “to show, to point out”. Tæcan is also the root of Token, which as you know is not the ‘real article’. I presume you know the phrase “The finger pointing at the moon, is not the moon”?
I can’t find Nagarjuna’s thoughts on picking up a snake, apart from the idea of mistaking a rope for a snake- which seems to me more about how a person can be deceived by their own perspective- which gets in the way of seeing truth. A common problem when one is trying to interpret any 'teachings', isn't it?
Nagaraja also said “When buddhas don’t appear, And their followers are gone, The wisdom of awakening, Bursts forth by itself.”
But hey, I’m no Buddhist. It's a long winded response to your comment, (soz) but, it was a complicated comment... and this video is actually about stepping outside of society and the way an insecure society becomes more controlling of its people, so I don't want people to confuse the two topics either- snakes and ropes and all that.
@TheSpartacat I didn't watch the video. The title was interesting, so I surfed over, and when I found out it was by Watts I was chagrinned, as he is so popular. I'm sure he had lots of good ideas. But, he is often considered a Buddhist teacher, and as far as I can tell, he did tend to be a popularizer. He died of alcoholism, so..I have to conclude he did not umm..manage to achieve understanding of the concepts he was teaching. To the extent Watt benefits anyone I am very happy.
I am just suggesting that I think many folks should look further than Watts, particularly if they are not happy with where contemplating his work has gotten them. I made my initial comment because I encountered Watts and similar in my youth and *was* harmed by my misunderstanding of Buddhist concepts..later I noted Nagarjuna's comment with chagrin. Its not about mistaking a snake for a rope. I also don't believe the quote you cite was advocacy of not having teachers... : )
"Nagarjuna even says that: "A wrongly conceived [wisdom of] emptiness can ruin the dull witted. It is like a snake incorrectly grasped or some magical knowledge incorrectly applied." (Mulamadhyamakakarika, XXIV 11). This wisdom is scary; it makes good and evil relative. Grasping it incorrectly is dangerous because one could erroneously reject the necessity for moral action, which as Nagarjuna says in his Ratnavali (II 20) is the road to hell."
Sounds like all of this is rather far afield from simple good sociological sense that Watts was sharing in this video, but I think we all have experience that the rejection of "the necessity for moral action" is a big, big issue today particularly tied to Eastern concepts. This has been recognized as a problem in Buddhist history..classic warning: your view should be as broad as the sky, BUT YOUR CONDUCT SHOULD BE AS FINE AS FLOUR. In any event, now you know what I was talking about.
One final comment...I am *not* advocating Buddhism as the "one true road". Or even that most Buddhist teachers wearing the garb of the tradition are reliable. Don't mistake me. What I am saying is that Watts did teach concepts of emptiness, they are dangerous, and when they come in their traditional packages, they come along with a complex system of balancing thoughts and practices that makes them safer.
Brilliant! I didn't know who it was narrating, and first thought it was Richard Burton, sounds very like him to my ear, but I'm really glad I found this today, this guy makes a lot of sense.
B0rnles13 1 year ago
great vid, had to fave it. The individual used to be the enemy of the masses, murderers, rapists, other scum. Now the masses are the enemy of the individual. You don't dare go against the grain, reject the flavour of the day. Perhaps it has always been that way, as the video purports.
UBER069 1 year ago
It's kinda moot now though because Consumerism is dying out as the large swathe of consumers can no longer work due to out-sourcing, downsizing, technological advancement, Globalism, illegal immigration and high-turnover, low-paid work.
Kiddolinfen09 1 year ago
:-)
astrotometry 1 year ago
@astrotometry
:-P x
TheSpartacat 1 year ago
I'm a consumer to a point. Kind of have to be when you have children, but I am a total hermit these days. The world has just gotten so insane.
anastasia81472 1 year ago 2
@anastasia81472
It's hard not to be, isnt it? I guess the key to non compliance is to be noticeably not playing along, rather than just avoiding notice. I've been avoiding notice lately...but noticeably avoiding notice- been knee deep in soil, digging and growing veg.... its a non consumer revolution!! lol ...and it screws up your back!! ;-)
TheSpartacat 1 year ago 2
@TheSpartacat I had big garden plans this year, but two moves in two months have kind of shot that in the foot. That's okay, I have a large cannister of non-GMO seeds for next year, and a large, sunny yard to grow things in.
anastasia81472 1 year ago
thanks you, thank you, thank you!! it's been several years since i've read watts, i definitely needed the reminder! the footage with the audio was beautiful as well. i've always prided myself in being a rebel, not a hermit, because a rebel needs closer contact in order to rebel. a hermit is beautiful because he exists, no need for statements, or actions. rebels have too much pride/ego. your vid is food for thought. THANK YOU!!!
rebelfrak 1 year ago
@rebelfrak
Hi there! Long time no see! I've got videos of yours to catch up on!
I know what ya mean- a rebel needs to be engaged with everything else in order to be in opposition- it has to play the game of opposites, which is a game of ego... whereas a hermit simply doesnt play. Looking at society, i feel that non-compliance and not playing is the way to bring the machine to its knees- which i guess is a form of rebellion too, on a deeper level- to not play at all.
TheSpartacat 1 year ago
@TheSpartacat you hit the nail on the head. just hearing this audio clip confirms something that i've been thinking alot about lately. my version of "rebelling against the system" actually keeps it going. but "to not play" is a much better idea. plus, i've been looking deeper into the life of the greatest "rebel" of them all (the messiah) and deep and beautiful doors have opened for me ... thanks again for the vid. it's a blessing!
rebelfrak 1 year ago
1st time i heard this one. it goes to a lot of my thinking.
Always enjoy Watts writings too, he makes you think a little deeper =)
Great Post =)
czarwright 1 year ago
@czarwright
Hello! I've only discovered Mr Watts fairly recently- I really like him- he has such enthusiasm for whatever he's talking about.... can kinda imagine that if he was still around I'd have a great chinwag with him- my brain hovers around similar lines of thought. :-)
TheSpartacat 1 year ago
Are you fecking kidding me??? LAST NIGHT, for the first time in MONTHS I type Alan Watts into the seach thing to see if there is anything new and it was an excerpt from this talk that I listened to.
o_0
youniverse9 1 year ago
@youniverse9 hahaha!!!! Viva la string! All things are definitely tied together, somehow or other!
TheSpartacat 1 year ago
thanks kitty
fal2grace1 1 year ago
Thank you for this
nanotech2020 1 year ago
Cool. That explains a lot.
tenagliac 1 year ago
I closed my eyes and listened with a smile. I can only speak for myself by saying I am aware that I am a sentient being and that I love myself, and all that I manifest in to this world will be from unconditional love of All.
Thank you for these moments.
smileykai77 1 year ago
@smileykai77
:-) Beautifully said!!
Have you seen the sky over London today? Beoootiful!! I was getting a crick neck looking at it! :-) Funny thing how, when you look upwards, other people also look up to find out what you're looking at. Curious or nosey... Sadly i think many looked and didnt see.
TheSpartacat 1 year ago
The reward for conformity was that everyone liked you except yourself
great post spartacat
rageunderground 1 year ago 5
@rageunderground Excellent comment!! :-)
TheSpartacat 1 year ago
u missing ireland ther spartacat lol
jelleeee1 1 year ago
@jelleeee1 Of course! Being in the city- its impossible not to miss nature... give me fields and open skies!!! :-)
TheSpartacat 1 year ago
I don't like Alan Watts. I 'm sorry to be obnoxious about this, but I want to add a caveat for people...traditionally you are supposed to have a teacher to guide you, and its pretty obviously why. Ideas like "you don't exist" or, "you should eliminate desire" can really cause alot of damage. A very respected Buddhist teacher of ancient times, Nagarjuna compared the dangers of misunderstanding these ideas to picking up a poisonous snake incorrectly. And if you are looking for these concepts
givebirthathome 1 year ago
out of deep pain, I'd say misunderstanding is practically guaranteed. When I look at Alan Watts versus say Lama Tharchin Rinpoche, I see something in the latter that feels right. In my experience, thinking about these kinds of ideas, doesn't show you the way. Being with teachers does. at wiki:
Watts has been criticized by Buddhists such as Roshi Philip Kapleau, John Daido Loori, and D. T. Suzuki for allegedly misinterpreting several key concepts of Zen Buddhism.
givebirthathome 1 year ago
@givebirthathome They're just ideas, do with them what you will! Personally I don't see that because there is a particular tradition amongst a particular group of people that that means we are "supposed" to do things that way, there'd never be any kind of progress if that were the case! To me externalising your power and handing it over to a guru or teacher is where the "danger" lies, this is in part because there is no "the way", it's all about finding your own way. Peace.
ccodling 1 year ago 3
@ccodling Handing power over to an exploitative teacher is dangerous, but so is attempting to learn certain things without one. Life is one judgement call after another. Peace.
givebirthathome 1 year ago
@givebirthathome
Hmm, I'm having to really ponder how to reply to this. You're welcome to your opinion, of course- but this video is not about Buddhism at all... whereas that is all your comment focuses on. But there’s a reason for most things, so I can only respond to what you DID say.
Alan Watts is a philosopher, not a Buddhist teacher, so your caveat is a bit like warning people not to use a rope to hammer in a nail.
I listen to Alan for his philosophisical ideas, which cover lots of areas
TheSpartacat 1 year ago
There are many ideas that can cause a lot of damage. My own opinion is that the human tendency to look for a doctrine/ right answer to follow is one of the most damaging. Buddhism has no doctrine has it?
The word “teach” is derived from Tæcan; “to show, to point out”. Tæcan is also the root of Token, which as you know is not the ‘real article’. I presume you know the phrase “The finger pointing at the moon, is not the moon”?
TheSpartacat 1 year ago
I can’t find Nagarjuna’s thoughts on picking up a snake, apart from the idea of mistaking a rope for a snake- which seems to me more about how a person can be deceived by their own perspective- which gets in the way of seeing truth. A common problem when one is trying to interpret any 'teachings', isn't it?
Nagaraja also said “When buddhas don’t appear, And their followers are gone, The wisdom of awakening, Bursts forth by itself.”
TheSpartacat 1 year ago
But hey, I’m no Buddhist. It's a long winded response to your comment, (soz) but, it was a complicated comment... and this video is actually about stepping outside of society and the way an insecure society becomes more controlling of its people, so I don't want people to confuse the two topics either- snakes and ropes and all that.
Peace :-)
TheSpartacat 1 year ago
@TheSpartacat I didn't watch the video. The title was interesting, so I surfed over, and when I found out it was by Watts I was chagrinned, as he is so popular. I'm sure he had lots of good ideas. But, he is often considered a Buddhist teacher, and as far as I can tell, he did tend to be a popularizer. He died of alcoholism, so..I have to conclude he did not umm..manage to achieve understanding of the concepts he was teaching. To the extent Watt benefits anyone I am very happy.
givebirthathome 1 year ago
I am just suggesting that I think many folks should look further than Watts, particularly if they are not happy with where contemplating his work has gotten them. I made my initial comment because I encountered Watts and similar in my youth and *was* harmed by my misunderstanding of Buddhist concepts..later I noted Nagarjuna's comment with chagrin. Its not about mistaking a snake for a rope. I also don't believe the quote you cite was advocacy of not having teachers... : )
givebirthathome 1 year ago
Yikes, split smiley..anyway..the quote:
"Nagarjuna even says that: "A wrongly conceived [wisdom of] emptiness can ruin the dull witted. It is like a snake incorrectly grasped or some magical knowledge incorrectly applied." (Mulamadhyamakakarika, XXIV 11). This wisdom is scary; it makes good and evil relative. Grasping it incorrectly is dangerous because one could erroneously reject the necessity for moral action, which as Nagarjuna says in his Ratnavali (II 20) is the road to hell."
givebirthathome 1 year ago
Sounds like all of this is rather far afield from simple good sociological sense that Watts was sharing in this video, but I think we all have experience that the rejection of "the necessity for moral action" is a big, big issue today particularly tied to Eastern concepts. This has been recognized as a problem in Buddhist history..classic warning: your view should be as broad as the sky, BUT YOUR CONDUCT SHOULD BE AS FINE AS FLOUR. In any event, now you know what I was talking about.
givebirthathome 1 year ago
One final comment...I am *not* advocating Buddhism as the "one true road". Or even that most Buddhist teachers wearing the garb of the tradition are reliable. Don't mistake me. What I am saying is that Watts did teach concepts of emptiness, they are dangerous, and when they come in their traditional packages, they come along with a complex system of balancing thoughts and practices that makes them safer.
givebirthathome 1 year ago
Excellent!
tburke64 1 year ago
@tburke64 TY for popping by to watch x
TheSpartacat 1 year ago