Please stop hating. Trinitarians are allowed to be in God in three persons if they want to. It does not alter my belief system one bit. But your are slandering people who believe only in one God. Yes, the Pentecostals often speak in tongues as do some Protestants and Catholics. The gifts of God are without repentance. But that is what you need to do here in the sight of God and man. (Acts 2:38) I say that tongues gives a person power when it's from God. But nobody needs to prove salvation by it!
Tertullian, in 200 AD, admitted that the ONENESS APOSTOLICS "always constitute the majority of believers." Tertullian even refused to call them unwise or unlearned. Zephyrinus, the Bishop of Rome (210 AD), said, "I know ONE GOD, Christ Jesus, beside Him I know no other." Callistus, the Bishop of Rome in 220 AD, said, "The Word is the Son Himself, the Father Himself; there is only one and the same INDIVISIBLE Spirit. The Father is not one and the Son another. They are ONE AND THE SAME."
What in the world were you thinking to make this video? I am not a Pentecostal in name but like the Jews of the Old Testament (Shema Deut $;4-6; The whole book of Isaiah but mainly 40-50 chapters; and Zachariah 14:9) I proclaim that there's one God without divisions. So did the early Catholics. Until Tertullian stole the idea of trinitarianism from the pagan greeks, of whom he was. One must be baptized Jesus name accodring to the word of God. (Acts 2:38-22:16; gal 3:27; Rom. 6:4; Col 3:17). Pray
This just shows a major lack of love for the word of God.This only proves of your ignorance Mr.Cassman777. What is wrong Mr.Cassman you cant pray are read? I pray for you. Lest you beleave a lie and be damn . Seek Jesus and you shall find him. But please do not Blaspheme the Holy Ghost less you will never be forgiven.
For a moment I thought this video was bashing the schizophrenic trinitarian concept borrowed from pagan ROME. If christians would actually follow the Torah observant Jewish Messiah of Israel that their New Testament presents, they would'nt make such idiotic videos. Jesus and Paul were not christians, they were Torah observant Jews who kept God's commandments. Pagan religion of the anti (counterfeit) christ
@macman2324 Okay, if you say so. I suppose you are the Oneness expert, and I'm not going to a Oneness church at all, neither delving deep into their doctrine. I'm at a loss as to how I can rebut your unsupported claim...
Misconceptions. Misunderstandings. Arguments based on a straw man. What else is new?
You know what's hateful and condemned so strongly? Judging others based on racial prejudices. Racism is judging someone based on their skin color alone, assuming who they are based upon your own preconceived ideas, rather than actually getting to know the person.
And yet you approve of committing denominational racism. Your Christ "theology" you state on your channel means nothing if you don't actually show it
You can prove Oneness false. M27:46 Jesus said God left him, so since God left Jesus on the cross, he was either man or God. The answer which keeps the Bible true is God because Jesus said "I am" I am in Judaism is a name of God meaning self existing in Hebrew.
@kaboomgoo he is the man who went against the roman catholic belief in 3 Gods so they killed him by burning him at the stake because he believed God was manifested in the flesh and that Jesus is the Son of the eternal God and not the eternal Son of the eternal God. as it reads in the word God said he will have a son and will Father him not that he has a son and will send him so the son never pre existed as the trinity's believe.i feel sorry for the person who made this video God have mercy on u
The thing that bothers me about this is the love between the Father and Son is made unimportant. For example John 17 is a beautiful picture of love for each other between the Father and Son. When I think of it in a ONENESS way, it is no longer "LOVE EACH OTHER" BUT, NOW IT"S ..."LOVE YOURSELF. If there is NO Father and Son existing together then the "message" of such scripture as John 17 is made VOID. LOVE THYSELF IS THE NEW MESSAGE IN A "ONENESS THEOLOGY".
@ydnar0591 And no I would not have to agree with them, no matter what version they use. Again, the Bible was written in Hebrew and greek, so if there was ever any question, all I have to do is look it up in the concordance and see exactly what it says. Most of the time I usually do that just to prove that the Bible says what it says.
@ydnar0591 You continue to confirm that you do not know enough about what you are talking about to argue. I can see clearly that you you don't know enough about "oneness" to argue against oneness... But even moreso, you don't know enough about your OWN theology. Again, you used v18 "lords" (or "lord"), but Abraham is called "lord", so is Abraham, God too? Or will you acknowledge that "Lord" can apply to something other than God (humans and angels)?
You are involved in a cult ...and YOU are going to tell me what's what? When will you see that I will not agree with cuktists.
You believe people are saved by ..speaking in tongues.. or .....they are not saved... if they don't. You believe we must be... H2o baptized to be Saved ....and we don't. So why would you expect me to believe anything you say? These are works of men. We are saved by the works of Jesus at Calvery's cross. The LAW / commandments do not save.
@ydnar0591 Again, if you want to argue with me, then argue against something I actually say. And here you are yet AGAIN not acknowledging your error, avoiding the question and trying to change the subject. I've shown you scripturally that you are wrong, time and time again yet you refuse to acknowledge. Before trying to argue, you need to learn what you are arguing for AND against. You don't know enough about either and that is confirmed every single time you type a message.
I'm 61 years old and have studied the Bible {KJV} formany many years and your opinion is YOUR opinion and you are intitled to it. But your fruit is awful, and I detect NO love in you.
I have preached the Gospel of Faith in Christ on the streets of this country, for many years and it's hard enough to answer questions about the Trinity, without trying to explain How"Oneness" is even a possibility.
NOONE can explain the Trinity completely so yes I don't KNOW all about it. I believe
@ydnar0591 There is a REASON no one can explain the trinity! Because it DOESN'T exist! It's a man-made doctrine, not found in a single scripture in the Bible. You've preached in the streets? Good for you... But you have shown too many times already that you don't know enough about your own doctrine much less someone else's doctrine (ie: oneness) to DEBATE. You are constantly saying things in error. You refuse to acknowledge when you are corrected, yet you still continue to TRY to debate.
God did not send me to debate, but to preach the Gospel of Christ dying for our sins according to the scriptures and buried and rose again on the 3rd day according to the scpriptures.
After worship today i watched Bayless Conley a Penetecostal with big Church who believes in Faith in Christ alone +nothing for salvation. He said there are men who have great knowledge but they use it as a "WEAPON" to hurt others, and they help no one. They simply want to show what they know, he said.
@donnycage I'm not sure what purpose debate serves, but "preaching the Gospel to every creature, serves the greatest purpose, "winning souls to Christ". Getting people lead to the Lord and saved is the #1 thing, you cannot make Disciples of Christ ,without it.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? Romans 10:14
The council at Nicea met with 5 issues on thier agenda, the first of which was the heresy of arianism, which was spreading quickly and needed to be stopped. Arius taught that Jesus was made from nothing and did not always exist. The Bishops , all but Arius and 2 others voted that the son was equal to the Father in purpose , substance and every other way, and described him as GOD from GOD. The Emporer Constantine branded Arius and those 2 bishops "Heretics". .but the teaching..{cont}
@ydnar0591 Good. I'm glad you are doing some research on the history of your doctrine. That's an excellent step forward. I'm fully aware of what went on during the council of Nicea, but I'm very glad to see you doing your research. I mean that. That says a lot.
I never said i did'nt know what the council of Nicea was about i simply said i did'nt need it to know what I have Faith in. The Nicene Creed did very little to even slow down the heretic teachings anyway. Arianism already had too great a start. They should have held their council meeting a lot earlier. Although I doubt that it would have stopped the cults anyway.
Orthodox Christianity has fought false teachings for centuries and we will continue to stand, no matter what, IT does.
@ydnar0591 Well, the purpose of the Council of Nicea was not to "stop heresy". The council was set for by emperor constantine who converted to Christianity after seeing a sign in the sky just prior to winning a great battle. The emperor granted so called "religious freedom" to Christians, but wanted a UNIFORM doctrine across Rome. He set up the council and had religious leaders from all over to settle a dispute among the most popular doctrines at the time, and to agree on ONE doctrine for Rome
@ydnar0591 The three main doctrines at the time were arianism, modalism and trinitarianism. By that time, trinitarianism had gain popularity and was the majority. It was decided at that council that the trinity would be the doctrine of choice. And the doctrine was LOOSELY defined (but not defined enough), which is why the doctrine continued with much debate and controversy and was defined further in 481 AD.
What if a person never bother to ask or care about how God operates? I don't see where that would be a sin. No one can figure it out anyway...not for certain. We can have an opinion. It's faith in the substituionary death of Jesus that saves...so I don't know if some people even try to find out how God is what he is.
I suspect some folks don't. They may just say that's fine whatever God says I agree. The Bible says "blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD". Ps 33:12a
@ydnar0591 And as for your question, "Show us HOW Jesus can love the Father or vice-versa ,when they NEVER CO-EXIST. ???" This shows me that you do not fully know oneness doctrine. And this is why you should not be debating, when you don't know enough about what you are debating against. If you grew up JW then you may know enough about their doctrine to debate with them. But you've shown me too many times that you don't know oneness doctrine, but you insist on trying to argue against it.
I'm not arguing AGAINST "ONENESS" I never heard of it until I heard it said of the UPC. I don't know of any other group who believes in oneness. I heard of a Aspostoilic group who believes that the Father is DEAD. ???
I'm arguing for something ....not against something. I don't have to know oneness to argue for 3 persons in 1 God. The GODHEAD. It's makes more sense in every situation IMO. In the trinity you don't have God talking to himself, for one thing.
Arianism had already got too big, and is still influencing religions to this day, who teach that same thing. In fact in my opinion a council today, would do Nothing to stop all the cults, there are simply too many of them.
Yes I do talk about the JWs alot. I was raised in that cult as a small boy. My mother had 11 brother and sisters and aunts and uncles and almost all of her family were in the JWs. I however lead her out of that cult to Faith alone in Christ. The Jws of course...
1John 5:7, Matt 28:19, Gen 1:26, Gen 3:22. Gen 11:7, Isa 6:8 are a few OT & NT verses.
Then of course there are the many Places where Jesus talks with his Father like John 17:5.
The baptism of Jesus & Father's voice out of heaven: "this is my dear Son in whom I AM well Pleased." the spirit out of Heaven landing on his shoulder at the same time."
How about a few Proof verses of the "ONENESS" from you?
WE also believe he is "ONE GOD"Isaiah 44:6, Isa 43:10-11,Isa 45:22 Mark 12:29 etc
Gen 18—19 comprise the longest Trinitarian proof text in the Bible, though this has not unanimously been consistently recognized:
Augustine, to his credit, believed the three men were the Trinity.
Luther and Calvin took Heb 13:03 to mean Abraham entertained angels even though Heb 13:03 does not mention Abraham, at least one of the three men spoke as though he were Yahveh, and there are several trinitarian indicators in Gen 18--19.[1]
Once again the Thief on the Cross did not have to ask his pastor for advice, he did not have to study in a mind altering college, or semenary for heretics, he did not have to be H2o"ed or babble words that Paul or the Apostles would not even recognize. He did NONE of those things, YET he is in Heaven. Amazing!
How'd he do that?
You need to pattern your life after this man and simply BELIEVE and TRUST, and thy faith hath saved thee.
@ydnar0591 ahh, I see you are still avoiding the question, changing the subject, and refusing to acknowledge your error. And I see you have added the use of "strawman" arguments. And you seem to bring up JWs quite often. They have their own set of problems and I correct them quite a bit myself. But they are not the subject that we are discussing. I'm well aware of what they teach. I don't need a lesson on them.
Actually, I use the KJV or NKJV, and went to the concordance (I highly suggest you get a concordance). The word is not "LORDS" it's "Lords" (lower case) and the hebrew word is 'adown. That word is used for men, angels, ect... and therefore can be plural. Your argument is not holding water. That word is not exclusive to God, it's used for men. Is Abraham God? He's called "Lord" (Gen 23:6). What about Gen 24:18 is he God too? No. These are men, who are called "Lord" ('adown).
The theif on the cross was SAVED without Calvin, Dake, Luther, H2o baptism, Tongue Babbling, and all that stuff. He was lost when he went up on the cross and SAVED when they took him down. He began by cursing Jesus along with the other criminal and finished by placing his Faith in Christ "the Son of the Living GOD". Why do men try to make it difficult?
This man simply put his FAITH in JESUS, and repented.
The UPC format is all based in EMOTIONALISM. I know several people from the UPCI center here where we live and have observed their meetings. They all spake in tongues the same way using the same motions and emotions, and exact same jibber and jabber. They appeared to be copying each other.
A man who left the UPC and came to our Congregation said that he felt like a slave while there and felt like NOW Christ has set him free. "whom the Son sets free is free indeed" JOHN 8:36
I find this both humorous and sad. Although the UPCI has "odd" beliefs, backward thinking and heretic ways, they have changed. And are really changing now under a new leadership. David K. Bernard took over leadership after a short stint by a man from California. But this after a long long leadership by Nathaniel Urshan. Even among UPCI, there are once saved always saved believers, those who cut their hair and donate to Locks of Love, and even a minister at a National Park.
Nehemiah 9:6 "You ALONE are God" (This is a statement that a triniarian could not make, because they believe two others are also God)
The fact is the trinity is not found anywhere in the entire Bible. It's a man made doctrine that gradually developed over a long period of time, forged through much debate and controversy. Which is why there was a need for Councils such as the Council of Nicea in 325 AD which loosely defined the trinity, then another 381 to further define the man made doctrine.
The word BIBLE is not in the BIBLE..so what does that prove?
ONENESS is not in there either?
The councils after the last of the original Apostles were gone do not mean anything to me. The Bible is all we have that is for sure.
The trinity is refected in too many places to ever fit here but a few stand out..Gensis 1:26, Genesis 18, and more into Acts 7:55-56, 1John 5:7 {KJV}, & Satan as usual mimics everything God does, has his own UN-HOLY TRINITY in several places, 1 is Rev 16:13
@ydnar0591 (1 of 2) I didn't say anything about the word trinity not being in the Bible. I said the trinity is not in the Bible. As in the man-made doctrine that is not found in the pages of scripture. None of the OT prophets taught a trinity. Jesus never once made mention of God being triune, nor did he correct the Jews who have supposedly been wrong about God for thousands of years. And none of the apostles spoke of a triune God.
Jesus never actually said the words "I am the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY" either. I would have one less cult to deal with in my street ministry if he had said those words plainly..... the Jehovah Witnesses.
It's HARDER to prove to them that "Jesus is God" than explaning the Holy and un-holy trinities, to oneness people.
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a "WORKMAN" that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly "DIVIDING" the word of truth.
The witness in the old testment should be enough.
26a And "GOD" said, Let "US" make man in "OUR" image, after "OUR" likeness: Genesis 1:26a
In Gen 18 three persons approached God whom the "Bible refers to as GOD", 2/3 of which go down to Sodom to Lot's house and blind the Somomites {These 2 are refered to as GOD..at same time 1 stays and bargains with Abraham to save Sodom for the sake of 10 righteous, in the City, the "Bible also refers to that One" as GOD as well. ?
@ydnar0591 Not a single verse you posted mentions ANYTHING about a triune god. Jews have been reading "Let us make man in Our image" for literally thousands of years and NEVER ONCE walked away from the verse thinking God was triune. The trinity thrives on preconceived ideas. You think God is a trinity, so when you read these verses you put you project your preconceived beliefs in to the texts. It's an irresponsible way to read scripture. Have you even done research on when the trinity started?
@ydnar0591 If you want to argue with me, then argue against something I say. The biblical concept of strict monotheism is MUCH older than the foreign concept of the trinity (which did not even BEGIN to surface until the LATE second century) and wasn't fully developed until LATE fifth century. The trinity is a man-made concept that was forged through centuries of debate and controversy. Defined and defined again through councils and creeds. Why? Because it's NOT defined in the Bible
There's no point in arguing over once or twice, after that I can tell that it is a waste of time. It's much easier to witness to someone who has not been brainwashed by uninspired books like encyclopedias.
You're NOT gonna change your mind and I'm set in the ageless doctrine of the trinity, that, goes back to Genesis for us, but the TRINITY is actually AGELESS {before ALL things.}.
So why argue at all ?
There has to be 50 different Gospels on the Internet.
@ydnar0591 and btw.. you should really do historical research on the doctrines you follow. It's as simple as picking up just about any encyclopedia or dictionary or history book that covers the issue and you can see where and how the trinity started.
If I do any reseach it's gonna be in something worth my while like the Bible. Not uninspired books of men. When God says those books are inspired too, then I'll do some research in them. Right now I'm not gonna waste Bible reading time on that stuff. Time is running out and I'm gonna learn as much as I can about MY SAVIOR and LORD. The most important thing we can do in THIS LIFE is GET READY FOR THE NEXT LIFE. So I'll get the MOST out of my time by reading GOD's Word.
Of course the verses did'nt make sense to YOU. You have already made up your mind. You blocked them out. You are not about to let anything in. You are stuck with a ONENESS doctrine. You'll live and die with it, I have no doubt.
That's your right. I'm all for human rights around the world ....as well as the constitutional freedoms we have in this country. GOD given rights as well. God gives us a free will. Praise his Holy name.
@ydnar0591 wow... "uninspired books"???? It's HISTORY. Plain and simple. You claim the trinity is ageless, yet none of the OT prophets spoke of a triune God. Jesus never once mentioned God was triune (nor did he correct the Jews that have supposedly been wrong for thousands of years) and the apostles never once mentioned a trinity. No, we aren't to find out God is triune until LONG after the pages of the New Testament were written. A doctrine that gradually developed over CENTURIES.
These books were not "GOD" inspired. Man's History, YES. Plain and simple yes.
God told us to STUDY and become workmen rightly dividing the Word of truth. The prophets did not HAVE to explain or talk about the MERELY OBVIOUS. The Apostles also did not have to explaiin the OBVIOUS. What do you mean long after NT...YOU still have'nt GOT IT.
The Trinity is as OLD as GOD himself.
The Trinity Pentecostals claim this ONENESS deal SPLIT the movement around 1900.
@ydnar0591 And furthermore, even if you did ignore history (like you are clearly doing), even if the only book you ever read was the Holy Bible, you will NOT find the trinity in there. It's simply not in the Bible. It's a man-made doctrine that thrives on preconceived ideas. "You ALONE are God" (Psalm 86:10), "You ALONE are the LORD" (Neh 9:6), "I am the LORD, who makes all things, Who stretches out the heavens ALL ALONE, Who spreads abroad the earth BY MYSELF;" (Isa 44:24)
@ydnar0591 "the obvious"???? Do you seriously not realize that the Jews have been reading the OT for literally THOUSANDS of years and they do not and have not believed that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is triune? This is what happens when you don't do your research. You are taking a man-made doctrine and trying to project it on a group of people that never believed God was triune. That doctrine was not even a thought until 180 AD.
@ydnar0591 If you actually did any type of research you'll find that the trinity (in referece to the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob) wasn't even thought of until around 180 AD (though it wasn't even close to being developed yet... Then was loosely and vaguely defined in 325 AD at the council of Nicea then defined again 481 AD. (Through MUCH debate and controversy). It's NOT an ageless doctrine. In fact there have been pagan trinities FAR older than that trinity. Do some research.
Don't need to reaseach anything, since God is 3 persons in one God, then it stands to reason that HE has ALWAYS BEEN. I take it , like everything else I do... by Faith, in God first..and His Word..and beginning in Genesis he clearly [TO ME} is seen as 3 persons 1 God...THE ONLY GOD.
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee "before the world was." JOHN 17:5
Speaking the OT and the Trinity. Let's see how honest you are and / OR how much in denial you are?
In Genesis 18:1-3 in the KJV {we've all used this Bible and it won't be one of the changed new versions} who are the 3 persons who approach Abrham as he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day? How does Abraham address these 3 persons by what name or Title in verse 3 ? who turned and went to Sodom in 18:21-22? and who stayed with Abraham at his tent? explain Gen 18:18 & 24 ?
@ydnar0591 (1 of 2) The "three men" in that passage is the LORD with two angels. This is confirmed in verse 22 "Then the men turned away from there and went toward Sodom, but Abraham still stood before the LORD." In fact, this is the SAME answer that the president of the Christian Research Institute (highly recognized TRINITARIAN apologetics org) gives for this passage as well.
@ydnar0591 You knew I'd say angels... Did you know the Bible would agree with me, as I have demonstrated? (v 22). Did you know that most studied up trinitarians agree with me as well, including the President of CRI (Trinitarian apologist, Hank Henegraaff)? Why? Because as I pointed out, if you are claiming that there are three SEPERATE men who are each God (similar to what finis Dake taught), then you are NOT promoting Trinitarianism, you are promoting Tritheism. (belief in 3 Gods)
I don't follow any man named dake or Calvin or any other man. I follow Jesus Christ and I can read for myself. I don't care who Dake is, or what he or she says or believes. There are also 200,000,000 Muslims that believe they are right about Muhammad, so what? You believe believe in h2o baptism and tongues salvation ....and are as wrong as you can be, so what does any of it prove?
@ydnar0591 I didn't say you followed him, but if you are pointing to THREE SEPERATE men and claiming that is what God is, then you are promoting TRITHIESM (NOT Trinitarianism). You really need to do more research on your own doctrine. No studied up trinitarian would DARE use that as an example of the trinity.
@ydnar0591 You keep claiming you live by faith, but as I have pointed out, this is not a matter of faith. Nowhere in the ENTIRE Bible does it tell you to believe in a triune God. Nothing in the entire cannon of scripture tells us that God is triune. So it's not faith, when you believe in the trinity, because the Bible doesn't mention a trinity. The trinity was man's way of attempting to understand and define an infinite God. It's a man-made doctrine that actually has pagan roots.
@ydnar0591 And that is the problem with trying to argue with someone that has not thoroughly done their research on their own doctrines. I don't mean any disrespect, but what I find is that I have to spend a lot of time reminding someone (or teaching someone) about their own doctrine before even moving forward. It's counter productive.
@ydnar0591 And as far as the verse you brought up about the LORD raining brimstone from the LORD out of heaven. Then you made the comment about "there's a neat trick if you're only 1"... Well, the Bible is explicitly clear that there IS only ONE (Mar 12:29, Neh 9:6). If you think God is doing neat little tricks, then that's fine too as long as you understand that there is only one LORD. In order to understand how this ONE LORD did this, you need to understand God's omnipresence (Psalm 139:7).
@ydnar0591 (2 of 2) Most studied up trinitarians would never dare give that verse as a "proof text" of the trinity. If you are actually pointing to three SEPERATE men and saying they are God, that's NOT trinitarianism, that's TRITHEISM. (Three gods). I really suggest you study your own doctrine more before trying to argue. I used to be trinitarian. I've studied this doctrine more that you can fathom. You aren't going to catch me off guard or surpise me with any verse or argument I haven't seen
No it's not tritheeism? IT IS TO YOU, becuse you don't believe any of it. Jesus left to go back to his father and said I will send the comforter to you, speaking of the Holy Sppirit, so even though they can preform different functions at the same time does NOT mean that they are not one God. YOU are thinking like a human thinks, and if we do that we will come up with too much human reasoning every time. No one said it would be easy to figure out and you have'nt figured it out.
I realize you are locked into what you believe, and there's no one that can PROVE anything to anyone, when we close our minds.
The Gospel really is simple enough for a child to preach. Jesus said we should have the FAITH of little children to enter the Kingdom of God.
3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the "SIMPLICITY" that is in Christ. 2Cor 11:3
27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: 29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.
Theologians could have studied themselves right into a bad situation. They can't.. ALL.. be right !
39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come "to me", that ye might have life.
Study is fine, but be careful that you don't study yourself into a corner you can't get out of.
There comes a time when we must SIMPLY LIVE by Faith alone, Gal 2:20-21...for without ..."FAITH"... IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO PLEASE GOD.
You have your belief and I have mine. The Gospel is NOT complicated, why are we?
@ydnar0591 And finally, you mentioned faith. This isn't about faith. The Bible never tells us God is triune. The Bible never tells us to believe in a triune God. So this isn't about faith. This is about an extrabiblical man-made doctrine that gradually developed over centuries,defined through creeds and councils (because it's NOT defined in the Bible). You can believe anything you want. That's between you and God. Just don't say the Bible explicitly teaches it, because it does no such thing.
TO YOU it does NO SUCH THING...TO YOU! I realize that. Don't speak for me. I can interpret scripture for myself, with the Holy Spirit's help of course. He does'nt have to study.
@ydnar0591 This isn't a matter of opinion. If you point to three SEPERATE men and claim that is what God is, then you are promoting tritheism (NOT trinitarianism). Plain and simple. That's a fact. Proponents of Trinitarianism (including CRI) do NOT agree with you, in fact rebuke those that claim there are three SEPERATE "beings" who are God. The Bible doesn't agree with you either (as I have pointed out from v22) yet you still wish to hold to this as an example of trinitarianism, and it's not.
@ydnar0591 You haven't even done research on the doctrines you are trying to promote, so it's counter productive to even argue. And btw lol I'm not "hiding" from anything. There's nothing to "hide" from. Again, you aren't going to catch me off guard with any argument I haven't seen and dealt with a hundred times already. (continued)
@ydnar0591 What about Genesis 19:18? The fact that he said "please no my lords?". Are you attempting to argue that there is more than one "LORD" from this verse? Because not only is the Bible EXPLICITLY clear that there is only ONE LORD, but trinitarianism is ADAMANT about the fact that there is only one LORD... If you are using this verse to promote multiple LORDS then, you truly are a tritheist and don't even realize it. But let me educate you so you don't make that mistake again. (continued)
The verse does not say LORDS {plural} it says "And Lot said to "THEM" , OH not so my LORD. {singular}
I know what I beleieve, 3 persons 1 God, how I get there is my business. You are still avoiding the verse Gen 19:18. You are using one of the new Corrupted versions of the so-called Bible The "NIV" ???
Check Isaiah 14:12 in your NIV, it takes out "SATAN" and puts "JESUS" in his place, in the verse. That is "Satanic Blastphemy"
@ydnar0591 There is only ONE "LORD" (YHWH) however. That word is NEVER used in reference to men, and you'll never see it plural. God was extremely clear that there is only ONE. You simply don't know enough about this to argue. You really need to do research. Get a good concordace. Talk to your pastor. Study. Do something. This is not working for you. Not only are you misrepresenting your OWN BELIEF system, but you are attempting to promote "multiple LORDS" which is downright tritheism and heresy
@ydnar0591 The KJV translates it "lord" and the NKJV translates it "lords" (it's the EXACT same word: 'adown, and the context determines whether it's going to be plural or singluar). Most Bibles translate that particular verse "lords" because of the context, it makes much more sense. The point is, that word is not used exclusively for God. It's used for men or angels. The word "LORD" (YHWH) is used exclusively for God and NEVER used for men/angels Please do more research before trying to argue.
@ydnar0591 Like I said, I use the KJV or NKJV. And when I really want to dig deep I simply go to the concordance which gives the Hebrew and Greek. Whoever is giving you your information is flat out lying to you. You are getting corrupted info. You DO need to do research on your own doctrines, and I highly suggest talking with your pastor. You simply do not know what you are talking about, yet you are trying to argue. It does more harm than good. You are not representing your belief system well
@ydnar0591 I never said the Holy Spirit (who happens to be God) is a liar. So first you are avoiding my question. Second, you won't acknowledge that you were wrong. Third you try to change the subject, and now you are bearing false witness against me? Wow.
@ydnar0591 I see you are just going to spout off random things and not deal with it, when you are proven wrong. I've studied this doctrine far more than you have. You are immature and not prepared to debate about this. You REALLY need to study more. You need to do research on your own doctrines. You need to talk to your pastor. You need to discuss your doctrine with truly studied up trinitarians. You are not representing your beliefs properly.
@ydnar0591 The Holy Spirit did NOT give your your information, which has been PROVEN FALSE. So how DARE you claim that. You tried to use "lord" from v18 yet as I properly demonstrated, it's the SAME word used for men. You REFUSE to acknowledge. You claimed the NIV replaced "Satan" with "Jesus" and it did no such thing. So whoever you ARE getting your information from is LYING. And it's NOT the Holy Spirit.
Judge this: Your god limits the places and conditions under which men can be saved. Because of your H2o and tongues salvation doctrines , mutes can't be saved, People lost in the widerness could not call on God. Young men who were pinned down by enemy gunfire in 2 world wars, Veit Nam, Korea, the civil War etc etc..who cried out to God for forgiveness and repented would be denied , because there was NO water anywhere . There are no athiests in foxholes...
13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. JOHN 15:13
So your god turns these brave young men down for "Eternal Life" because there's no water for Baptism? .Those who died to keep us free. NO.....Again I can't believe that a Loving God would make impossible demands on people like these.
They have heard the Gospel message and "like the Thief" Called on the LORD for "Mercy", in their hour of great need.
How dare I claim that? I'll tell you how, because the Holy Spirit I believe in is part of 3 persons that make up the Godhead, The 1 and only God.
You on the other hand have a god who talks to himself, and truns into other persons 1 person at a time, and cannot be both at the same time. THIS is definately 2 different Gospels, and 2 different Jesus' or gods. Somebody is right and somebody has to be wrong. You can't comment on my God in the same way you do yours, they're different.
@ydnar0591 You really don't understand do you? The OT was written in Hebrew, so if you want to look at the actual word used, you need to go to a concordance. The Hebrew word used is 'adown. This word is not exclusive to God. It's used for men and angels. It was used in reference to Abraham. So is Abraham God? Or will you admit that the word is used in reference to men and angels?
@ydnar0591 I'm finding myself having to correct you more than I should. You said in the NIV, Isaiah 14:12 takes out the word Satan and puts "Jesus" in it... No... It doesn't. Isaiah is in the old testament, and even though Jesus (Yeshua) is a common name, and found even in the OT (ie: Joshua: which is the EXACT same name), the name "Jesus" in reference to the Son of God was not revealed until the New Testament. So there isn't a translation alive that would place the word "Jesus" in Isaiah
@ydnar0591 I properly corrected you about Isaiah 14:12. You claimed they took out "Satan" and put in "Jesus" and they did no such thing. Again. Why are you avoiding the question? Is it that hard to admit you were wrong? You mention "lord" in v 18, which is the exact same word used in reference to Abraham, so once again I ask, is Abraham God? Or will you acknowledge with the Bible that the word "lord" ('adown) can be used in reference to men or angels?
I don't confess anything to apostates & heretics like you, even if I had something to confess.. If I have something to confess I know where to go , and who to go to. It won't be YOU. I know you have an extremely HIGH regard for yourself, but I don't share your admiration of YOU, with you.
Your works based salvation doctrines, exclude you from even have any credibility at all. You have "ANOTHER GOSPEL and ANOTHER CHRIST, so we are not even dicussing the same God. No sense to it.
Speaking of new corrupted versions of the Bible, the Jehovah's Witnesses have the opposite problem that you guys have, they belief that the Father is the ONLY GOD, only he don't change into NOTHING he is always the Father and the only GOD. They will take their version and prove to you without a doubt that THEY ARE RIGHT. IF you read THEIR VERSION.. YOU would HAVE to AGREE. That's how it works, just use your version and prove your point. A single WORD in the right place can DO IT.
@ydnar0591 The word used in Gen 19:18 "lords", if you'll notice is lower cased. This is because the word for "lords" here is not exclusively used for the LORD God. The word is 'adown and CAN be used for the LORD God, but more times than not, it's used for men (Gen 23:16; Gen 24:18). Can be used for a prince, a husband, a prophet, a king, an angel, ect.. (Continued)
@ydnar0591 If you see the word "LORD" fully capitalized (most Bibles do that for you, so you know the difference between the two words) IT is EXCLUSIVE to the LORD God. That word is NEVER used in reference to mere men. Only to the LORD God almighty. That word is YHWH, which is unpronouncable. Later the Hebrews added in the vowels from adonai creating a pronouncable name "Yahweh", then a variation, "Yehovah" and another "Yehovih". Later when the "J"s were added in we get "Jehovah and Jehovih.
@ydnar0591 Negative. The word in v 18 "lords" (or "lord") is the EXACT same word ('adown) used in reference to Abraham. In Gen 23:6. So again, I ask you. Is Abraham God?
@ydnar0591 So basically what can be learned from this, is the arguments you've been holding on to, to promote your doctrine aren't really as concrete as you think they are. "lord" or "lords" is a title that can be attributed to men. It was a very common title in fact. But there is only one LORD (YHWH). Again, only ONE. That is the position that not only the Bible is CRYSTAL clear on, but also Trinitarianism is extremely adamant about it as well. Please do research before trying to argue more.
You sound like the Jehovah's Witnesses now, trying to say that Lord Means a title for men, when it referrs to Jesus as the LORD.
Why did'nt Abraham address the 3 persons separately when they approached him, so as not to mix the LORD GOD with mear Angels. He addressed the 3 as LORD.
Besides you are saying now that these titles "lord" are attributed to"MEN"..first you said they were "ANGELS"...make up your mind. MEN or ANGELS ?...WHICH IS IT ?
@ydnar0591 Wait, so you are NOT acknowledging that the word "lord" is used in reference to men? Seriously? Even after I gave you verses that clearly show that it IS used for men? Again, "And the sons of Heth answered Abraham, saying to him, Hear us, my lord ('adown)..." (Gen 23:6) So is Abraham, God? And the word can be used for men OR angels. The point is it's NOT used exclusively for God. Do you want more? I can give you a PLETHORA of scripture showing "lord" not in reference to the LORD God.
The First person saved under the New Testament was a Criminal and a THIEF, and HE did not have to STUDY anything he was SAVED hanging on a cross , simply placing his FAITH in GOD. He was not dipped in water, did not speak in tongues, none of that. HE BELIEVED IN HIS HEART AND CONFESSED WITH HIS MOUTH, CALLING ON THE LORD. Romans 10-8-13
@ydnar0591 Stop avoiding the question. You brought up v18, "lords" (or "lord), ['adown] which is the EXACT same word given in reference to Abraham. So is Abraham God? Or will you acknowledge (along with the Bible) that the word "lord" ('adown) is not exclusive to God and can be used in reference to men or angels?
@ydnar0591 (2 of 2) No, we aren't to find out God is a "trinity" until LONG after the pages of the NT were written. Through centuries of debate and controversy. Defined and defined again through councils and creeds. Why? Because it's NOT defined in the Bible.
What person believes they are going to see three separate persons in heaven. That is crazy. When we get to heaven we will see one God on the throne, Jesus Christ, not three, that's crazy. Jesus said if you have seen me you have seen the Father. So they couldn't be two separate persons. Jesus is the image of God. God, please open these trinitarians eyes.
@KOMIKO007 Yeah, can you explain it in a little more detail. Because I would like to know what you as a trinitarian will see when you get to heaven. What do you mean three persons in God. Is that three different person that is one God or three different person, each being God. Thank you.
What if we said 3 personalities in one , you would'nt have problem with that. You are a triune person if you are a father, and a son,and a spirit., a mother a daughter or son and a spirit. You may be a father and don't know it? YET !
With people it would be a parent, a child, and a spirit. 3 in one. Do you believe that is possible? Then why can't GOD be that? Especially when he makes it so Clear that he IS that.
You are a Body, soul and spirit , 3 in 1. We ALL are that.
Human philosophy does not work when it comes to HaShems Holy word. One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.Eph.4:6
Malachi 2:10 Have we not all one Father? Did not one God create us?
Romans 11:36 For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be the glory forever!
1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father..
Yahshuas statement takes on tremendous meaning" He that has seen me has seen The Father"One G-d revealed in Him
God is Trinitarian. Think about water. Water changes into three states: gas, liquid and solid and yet it still remains water. Likewise, God has three states: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and yet still remains God. All three are God and all three are Lord. But there is only 1 Father, one Son, one HS. The Father is not the Son nor the Son the Holy Spirit, but all are God.
Elohim has the plural ending "im" but not to be confused with a plurality of G-d
Many Hebrew words have a plural ending but mean singular such as Mayim(water)
Elohim can mean G-d gods demon or divine can be attributed to dieties or humanity. A basic study in Hebrew will show this. Yahshua is "ben Elchai" son of the living G-d NOT GOD the Son. There is no 'God The Son' in scripture, No 'God the Holy Ghost'. Sorry my brother but these terms are man made and adulterate The word of HaShem. Shalom
Acording to Eph.4. '..there is only one Elohim(God), the Father. The word Father And G-d are interchangable. " Our Father( G-d) who is in heaven ..."
Elohim's Name was given to Moses." I Am that I Am" Or "YHWH" pronounced YAHWEH. The Name of the son of Elohim given to a Jewish maiden was not the English word "Jesus". It was the Hebrew Name "Yahshua". Yahshua means Yahweh is Salvation. Thats why Yahshua is called Emanuel, Elohim 'God' with us. I am Not UPC but you mock Gods Spirit and people.
@MessianicViewpoint Elohim is plural meaning more than two,1 God represented by 3 distinct persons.God the Father,God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.All have distinct functions in salvation,but the same common goal.The Father elects and draws them,the Holy Spirit convicts them and Jesus died for their sins and keeps them.Jesus is not an actor playing roles,He is the eternal Son and always has been the Son.The whole first chapter of Hebrews explains this very well.May God Bless You.
If Jesus is not our Father, then He is not God. Jesus is the Holy Spirit, the Baptizer, the One Who will never leave or forsake us, the Everlasting Father. Yet he was not only God. He was also a MAN. This is why Jesus AS A MAN could pray to God His Father. No trinity here. This is the mystery of the Incarnation, that God manifest Himself in the body of His son. How Jesus,the son of God, could pray to the One Who fully inhabited Him is indeed mysterious, far above your poor power to mock.
That the Father is NOT coequal with the son is demonstrable in the Lord's prayer. Jesus taught us to pray, "Our Father Who art in heaven". He did not say "Our Son Who art in heaven". God does not relate to us as a son. If there were a 2nd person, "God the Son" in the Deity, we should relate to Him in terms of Sonship. He could be our Son. This is not possible. God relates to us as Father. The Person we call on is Jesus, the Father of all us children. Jesus is not merely a man, the son of God.
The Bible NOWHERE uses the expression "God the Son". That is a demonic invention taken up by false pastors. The only expression used in scripture is "son of God". The expressions "God the Son" & "son of God" are not the same, though they are treated as though they are. The expression is necessary to formulate the 4th century Catholic doctrine which imagined a divine family of a sort, a Father with a Son within the Godhead. This is not Bible. The Father is GREATER than the son, not equal.
Confusion about God beginning with the man-made doctrine of the trinity is ubiquitous. It is doubtful that there has been any more pernicious doctrine in Christian history. It makes of God 3 persons when the clear doctrine of scripture makes of God only ONE person. (Hebrews) Jesus was God. This is clear. He was God by virtue of the Spirit that was in Him in Its fullness. God was in Jesus. God IS a spirit. God is NOT anyone's son. God MADE a son. God's SON died on the cross, not God.
"We teach that the Father bruised Himself and killed Himself on the cross." This is a lie on two accounts. It is a lie regarding UPC doctrine and it is a lie about God, the latter the greater lie. The UPC teaches that God was in Christ reconciling Himself to the world. Jesus was the Father by virtue of the Spirit Who fully indwelt Him. We can not say that the Father died. Jesus gave up His Spirit. That was the Spirit of God who left Jesus at the cross. Jesus left his own body as a Spirit.
The only reference to God in the Bible using the language of "person" is singular (Hebrews). The trinity doctrine referring to "three persons" is not therefore Biblical. The Bible makes it clear. He is our Father. This speaks of the way He relates to His children. He is a Spirit. This is not to say that the Father is a person and the Spirit is another one. Sonship is not an attribute of Divinity but of humanity. God made a man, His son, and indwelt him fully. We do not pray, "Oh, my Son".
Please stop hating. Trinitarians are allowed to be in God in three persons if they want to. It does not alter my belief system one bit. But your are slandering people who believe only in one God. Yes, the Pentecostals often speak in tongues as do some Protestants and Catholics. The gifts of God are without repentance. But that is what you need to do here in the sight of God and man. (Acts 2:38) I say that tongues gives a person power when it's from God. But nobody needs to prove salvation by it!
acts2and38ministries 1 week ago
Tertullian, in 200 AD, admitted that the ONENESS APOSTOLICS "always constitute the majority of believers." Tertullian even refused to call them unwise or unlearned. Zephyrinus, the Bishop of Rome (210 AD), said, "I know ONE GOD, Christ Jesus, beside Him I know no other." Callistus, the Bishop of Rome in 220 AD, said, "The Word is the Son Himself, the Father Himself; there is only one and the same INDIVISIBLE Spirit. The Father is not one and the Son another. They are ONE AND THE SAME."
acts2and38ministries 1 week ago
What in the world were you thinking to make this video? I am not a Pentecostal in name but like the Jews of the Old Testament (Shema Deut $;4-6; The whole book of Isaiah but mainly 40-50 chapters; and Zachariah 14:9) I proclaim that there's one God without divisions. So did the early Catholics. Until Tertullian stole the idea of trinitarianism from the pagan greeks, of whom he was. One must be baptized Jesus name accodring to the word of God. (Acts 2:38-22:16; gal 3:27; Rom. 6:4; Col 3:17). Pray
acts2and38ministries 1 week ago
lol @ groups of adults arguing about the characteristics of their imaginary friend.
trueleroix 1 week ago
This just shows a major lack of love for the word of God.This only proves of your ignorance Mr.Cassman777. What is wrong Mr.Cassman you cant pray are read? I pray for you. Lest you beleave a lie and be damn . Seek Jesus and you shall find him. But please do not Blaspheme the Holy Ghost less you will never be forgiven.
BillyInce43 1 week ago
Sounds just like the New United Pentacostal Church !
No time like the present to change churches.
hhps3 1 month ago
This isn't factual at all
SilvioManfredDante85 1 month ago
For a moment I thought this video was bashing the schizophrenic trinitarian concept borrowed from pagan ROME. If christians would actually follow the Torah observant Jewish Messiah of Israel that their New Testament presents, they would'nt make such idiotic videos. Jesus and Paul were not christians, they were Torah observant Jews who kept God's commandments. Pagan religion of the anti (counterfeit) christ
J
torahislife 1 month ago
@macman2324 Okay, if you say so. I suppose you are the Oneness expert, and I'm not going to a Oneness church at all, neither delving deep into their doctrine. I'm at a loss as to how I can rebut your unsupported claim...
OneTruthFinder 3 months ago
walla walla bing bang
Keruaran 3 months ago
Their...
blakodeel 3 months ago
Where heresy?
saintoccasionally 3 months ago
Misconceptions. Misunderstandings. Arguments based on a straw man. What else is new?
You know what's hateful and condemned so strongly? Judging others based on racial prejudices. Racism is judging someone based on their skin color alone, assuming who they are based upon your own preconceived ideas, rather than actually getting to know the person.
And yet you approve of committing denominational racism. Your Christ "theology" you state on your channel means nothing if you don't actually show it
OneTruthFinder 3 months ago
You can prove Oneness false. M27:46 Jesus said God left him, so since God left Jesus on the cross, he was either man or God. The answer which keeps the Bible true is God because Jesus said "I am" I am in Judaism is a name of God meaning self existing in Hebrew.
MrHellowwww1 4 months ago in playlist Liked
This so wrong somebody seriously has been hit in the head.
apostalic111 6 months ago
Holy crow, the tongues segment was HILARIOUS!!!!!!!!!
AnUnfinishedLady 6 months ago
What does micheal servetus have to do with this?
kaboomgoo 7 months ago
@kaboomgoo he is the man who went against the roman catholic belief in 3 Gods so they killed him by burning him at the stake because he believed God was manifested in the flesh and that Jesus is the Son of the eternal God and not the eternal Son of the eternal God. as it reads in the word God said he will have a son and will Father him not that he has a son and will send him so the son never pre existed as the trinity's believe.i feel sorry for the person who made this video God have mercy on u
uboyny 5 months ago
The thing that bothers me about this is the love between the Father and Son is made unimportant. For example John 17 is a beautiful picture of love for each other between the Father and Son. When I think of it in a ONENESS way, it is no longer "LOVE EACH OTHER" BUT, NOW IT"S ..."LOVE YOURSELF. If there is NO Father and Son existing together then the "message" of such scripture as John 17 is made VOID. LOVE THYSELF IS THE NEW MESSAGE IN A "ONENESS THEOLOGY".
ydnar0591 7 months ago
@ydnar0591 And no I would not have to agree with them, no matter what version they use. Again, the Bible was written in Hebrew and greek, so if there was ever any question, all I have to do is look it up in the concordance and see exactly what it says. Most of the time I usually do that just to prove that the Bible says what it says.
donnycage 7 months ago
@ydnar0591 You continue to confirm that you do not know enough about what you are talking about to argue. I can see clearly that you you don't know enough about "oneness" to argue against oneness... But even moreso, you don't know enough about your OWN theology. Again, you used v18 "lords" (or "lord"), but Abraham is called "lord", so is Abraham, God too? Or will you acknowledge that "Lord" can apply to something other than God (humans and angels)?
donnycage 7 months ago
@donnycage
You are involved in a cult ...and YOU are going to tell me what's what? When will you see that I will not agree with cuktists.
You believe people are saved by ..speaking in tongues.. or .....they are not saved... if they don't. You believe we must be... H2o baptized to be Saved ....and we don't. So why would you expect me to believe anything you say? These are works of men. We are saved by the works of Jesus at Calvery's cross. The LAW / commandments do not save.
ydnar0591 7 months ago
@ydnar0591 Again, if you want to argue with me, then argue against something I actually say. And here you are yet AGAIN not acknowledging your error, avoiding the question and trying to change the subject. I've shown you scripturally that you are wrong, time and time again yet you refuse to acknowledge. Before trying to argue, you need to learn what you are arguing for AND against. You don't know enough about either and that is confirmed every single time you type a message.
donnycage 7 months ago
@donnycage
I'm 61 years old and have studied the Bible {KJV} formany many years and your opinion is YOUR opinion and you are intitled to it. But your fruit is awful, and I detect NO love in you.
I have preached the Gospel of Faith in Christ on the streets of this country, for many years and it's hard enough to answer questions about the Trinity, without trying to explain How"Oneness" is even a possibility.
NOONE can explain the Trinity completely so yes I don't KNOW all about it. I believe
ydnar0591 7 months ago
@ydnar0591 There is a REASON no one can explain the trinity! Because it DOESN'T exist! It's a man-made doctrine, not found in a single scripture in the Bible. You've preached in the streets? Good for you... But you have shown too many times already that you don't know enough about your own doctrine much less someone else's doctrine (ie: oneness) to DEBATE. You are constantly saying things in error. You refuse to acknowledge when you are corrected, yet you still continue to TRY to debate.
donnycage 7 months ago
@donnycage
God did not send me to debate, but to preach the Gospel of Christ dying for our sins according to the scriptures and buried and rose again on the 3rd day according to the scpriptures.
After worship today i watched Bayless Conley a Penetecostal with big Church who believes in Faith in Christ alone +nothing for salvation. He said there are men who have great knowledge but they use it as a "WEAPON" to hurt others, and they help no one. They simply want to show what they know, he said.
ydnar0591 7 months ago
@ydnar0591 Good. Then stick to what God sent you to do and leave the debating for the apologists.
donnycage 7 months ago
@donnycage I'm not sure what purpose debate serves, but "preaching the Gospel to every creature, serves the greatest purpose, "winning souls to Christ". Getting people lead to the Lord and saved is the #1 thing, you cannot make Disciples of Christ ,without it.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? Romans 10:14
We are ALL to witness.
ydnar0591 7 months ago
@donnycage
The council at Nicea met with 5 issues on thier agenda, the first of which was the heresy of arianism, which was spreading quickly and needed to be stopped. Arius taught that Jesus was made from nothing and did not always exist. The Bishops , all but Arius and 2 others voted that the son was equal to the Father in purpose , substance and every other way, and described him as GOD from GOD. The Emporer Constantine branded Arius and those 2 bishops "Heretics". .but the teaching..{cont}
ydnar0591 7 months ago
@ydnar0591 Good. I'm glad you are doing some research on the history of your doctrine. That's an excellent step forward. I'm fully aware of what went on during the council of Nicea, but I'm very glad to see you doing your research. I mean that. That says a lot.
donnycage 7 months ago
@donnycage
I never said i did'nt know what the council of Nicea was about i simply said i did'nt need it to know what I have Faith in. The Nicene Creed did very little to even slow down the heretic teachings anyway. Arianism already had too great a start. They should have held their council meeting a lot earlier. Although I doubt that it would have stopped the cults anyway.
Orthodox Christianity has fought false teachings for centuries and we will continue to stand, no matter what, IT does.
ydnar0591 7 months ago
@ydnar0591 Well, the purpose of the Council of Nicea was not to "stop heresy". The council was set for by emperor constantine who converted to Christianity after seeing a sign in the sky just prior to winning a great battle. The emperor granted so called "religious freedom" to Christians, but wanted a UNIFORM doctrine across Rome. He set up the council and had religious leaders from all over to settle a dispute among the most popular doctrines at the time, and to agree on ONE doctrine for Rome
donnycage 7 months ago
@donnycage
That was my too that NOTHING was going to stop that.
ydnar0591 7 months ago
@ydnar0591 The three main doctrines at the time were arianism, modalism and trinitarianism. By that time, trinitarianism had gain popularity and was the majority. It was decided at that council that the trinity would be the doctrine of choice. And the doctrine was LOOSELY defined (but not defined enough), which is why the doctrine continued with much debate and controversy and was defined further in 481 AD.
donnycage 7 months ago
@donnycage
What if a person never bother to ask or care about how God operates? I don't see where that would be a sin. No one can figure it out anyway...not for certain. We can have an opinion. It's faith in the substituionary death of Jesus that saves...so I don't know if some people even try to find out how God is what he is.
I suspect some folks don't. They may just say that's fine whatever God says I agree. The Bible says "blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD". Ps 33:12a
ydnar0591 7 months ago
@ydnar0591 And as for your question, "Show us HOW Jesus can love the Father or vice-versa ,when they NEVER CO-EXIST. ???" This shows me that you do not fully know oneness doctrine. And this is why you should not be debating, when you don't know enough about what you are debating against. If you grew up JW then you may know enough about their doctrine to debate with them. But you've shown me too many times that you don't know oneness doctrine, but you insist on trying to argue against it.
donnycage 7 months ago
@donnycage
I'm not arguing AGAINST "ONENESS" I never heard of it until I heard it said of the UPC. I don't know of any other group who believes in oneness. I heard of a Aspostoilic group who believes that the Father is DEAD. ???
I'm arguing for something ....not against something. I don't have to know oneness to argue for 3 persons in 1 God. The GODHEAD. It's makes more sense in every situation IMO. In the trinity you don't have God talking to himself, for one thing.
ydnar0591 7 months ago
@donnycage
My question was .Can YOU Prove "oneness",from Scripture?
ydnar0591 7 months ago
@donnycage
Arianism had already got too big, and is still influencing religions to this day, who teach that same thing. In fact in my opinion a council today, would do Nothing to stop all the cults, there are simply too many of them.
Yes I do talk about the JWs alot. I was raised in that cult as a small boy. My mother had 11 brother and sisters and aunts and uncles and almost all of her family were in the JWs. I however lead her out of that cult to Faith alone in Christ. The Jws of course...
ydnar0591 7 months ago
@donnycage
....also teach that Jesus was created and is NOT equal to the father, just like Arius taught it.
No I cannot Prove the "Trinity"..I don't know anyone who can. It's taken by Faith from what the scriptures teach.
Can YOU PROVE "ONENESS" ??? You act as though you can. Go ahead let's hear it.
PROVE from scripture that oneness is truth.
Show us HOW Jesus can love the Father or vice-versa ,when they NEVER CO-EXIST. ???
ydnar0591 7 months ago
1John 5:7, Matt 28:19, Gen 1:26, Gen 3:22. Gen 11:7, Isa 6:8 are a few OT & NT verses.
Then of course there are the many Places where Jesus talks with his Father like John 17:5.
The baptism of Jesus & Father's voice out of heaven: "this is my dear Son in whom I AM well Pleased." the spirit out of Heaven landing on his shoulder at the same time."
How about a few Proof verses of the "ONENESS" from you?
WE also believe he is "ONE GOD"Isaiah 44:6, Isa 43:10-11,Isa 45:22 Mark 12:29 etc
ydnar0591 7 months ago
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22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. Isaiah 45:22
ydnar0591 7 months ago
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ydnar0591 7 months ago
Gen 18—19 comprise the longest Trinitarian proof text in the Bible, though this has not unanimously been consistently recognized:
Augustine, to his credit, believed the three men were the Trinity.
Luther and Calvin took Heb 13:03 to mean Abraham entertained angels even though Heb 13:03 does not mention Abraham, at least one of the three men spoke as though he were Yahveh, and there are several trinitarian indicators in Gen 18--19.[1]
ydnar0591 7 months ago
Once again the Thief on the Cross did not have to ask his pastor for advice, he did not have to study in a mind altering college, or semenary for heretics, he did not have to be H2o"ed or babble words that Paul or the Apostles would not even recognize. He did NONE of those things, YET he is in Heaven. Amazing!
How'd he do that?
You need to pattern your life after this man and simply BELIEVE and TRUST, and thy faith hath saved thee.
ydnar0591 7 months ago
@ydnar0591 ahh, I see you are still avoiding the question, changing the subject, and refusing to acknowledge your error. And I see you have added the use of "strawman" arguments. And you seem to bring up JWs quite often. They have their own set of problems and I correct them quite a bit myself. But they are not the subject that we are discussing. I'm well aware of what they teach. I don't need a lesson on them.
donnycage 7 months ago
Actually, I use the KJV or NKJV, and went to the concordance (I highly suggest you get a concordance). The word is not "LORDS" it's "Lords" (lower case) and the hebrew word is 'adown. That word is used for men, angels, ect... and therefore can be plural. Your argument is not holding water. That word is not exclusive to God, it's used for men. Is Abraham God? He's called "Lord" (Gen 23:6). What about Gen 24:18 is he God too? No. These are men, who are called "Lord" ('adown).
donnycage 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The theif on the cross was SAVED without Calvin, Dake, Luther, H2o baptism, Tongue Babbling, and all that stuff. He was lost when he went up on the cross and SAVED when they took him down. He began by cursing Jesus along with the other criminal and finished by placing his Faith in Christ "the Son of the Living GOD". Why do men try to make it difficult?
This man simply put his FAITH in JESUS, and repented.
ydnar0591 7 months ago
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ydnar0591 7 months ago
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ydnar0591 7 months ago
CAUTION: Whatever your beliefs CASSMAN777, read Mark 3:28, 29.
Mr032409 8 months ago
The UPC format is all based in EMOTIONALISM. I know several people from the UPCI center here where we live and have observed their meetings. They all spake in tongues the same way using the same motions and emotions, and exact same jibber and jabber. They appeared to be copying each other.
A man who left the UPC and came to our Congregation said that he felt like a slave while there and felt like NOW Christ has set him free. "whom the Son sets free is free indeed" JOHN 8:36
ydnar0591 8 months ago
NO trinity-->JUST ONE----> GOD
2222pauline 8 months ago
I find this both humorous and sad. Although the UPCI has "odd" beliefs, backward thinking and heretic ways, they have changed. And are really changing now under a new leadership. David K. Bernard took over leadership after a short stint by a man from California. But this after a long long leadership by Nathaniel Urshan. Even among UPCI, there are once saved always saved believers, those who cut their hair and donate to Locks of Love, and even a minister at a National Park.
rbailey1able 9 months ago
poor sinners dont have lives lol
nandoSOUPC 11 months ago
Nehemiah 9:6 "You ALONE are God" (This is a statement that a triniarian could not make, because they believe two others are also God)
The fact is the trinity is not found anywhere in the entire Bible. It's a man made doctrine that gradually developed over a long period of time, forged through much debate and controversy. Which is why there was a need for Councils such as the Council of Nicea in 325 AD which loosely defined the trinity, then another 381 to further define the man made doctrine.
donnycage 1 year ago
@donnycage
The word BIBLE is not in the BIBLE..so what does that prove?
ONENESS is not in there either?
The councils after the last of the original Apostles were gone do not mean anything to me. The Bible is all we have that is for sure.
The trinity is refected in too many places to ever fit here but a few stand out..Gensis 1:26, Genesis 18, and more into Acts 7:55-56, 1John 5:7 {KJV}, & Satan as usual mimics everything God does, has his own UN-HOLY TRINITY in several places, 1 is Rev 16:13
ydnar0591 8 months ago
@ydnar0591 (1 of 2) I didn't say anything about the word trinity not being in the Bible. I said the trinity is not in the Bible. As in the man-made doctrine that is not found in the pages of scripture. None of the OT prophets taught a trinity. Jesus never once made mention of God being triune, nor did he correct the Jews who have supposedly been wrong about God for thousands of years. And none of the apostles spoke of a triune God.
donnycage 8 months ago
@donnycage
Jesus never actually said the words "I am the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY" either. I would have one less cult to deal with in my street ministry if he had said those words plainly..... the Jehovah Witnesses.
It's HARDER to prove to them that "Jesus is God" than explaning the Holy and un-holy trinities, to oneness people.
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a "WORKMAN" that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly "DIVIDING" the word of truth.
God did'nt make it easy!
ydnar0591 8 months ago
@donnycage
The witness in the old testment should be enough.
26a And "GOD" said, Let "US" make man in "OUR" image, after "OUR" likeness: Genesis 1:26a
In Gen 18 three persons approached God whom the "Bible refers to as GOD", 2/3 of which go down to Sodom to Lot's house and blind the Somomites {These 2 are refered to as GOD..at same time 1 stays and bargains with Abraham to save Sodom for the sake of 10 righteous, in the City, the "Bible also refers to that One" as GOD as well. ?
ydnar0591 8 months ago
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donnycage 7 months ago
@ydnar0591 Not a single verse you posted mentions ANYTHING about a triune god. Jews have been reading "Let us make man in Our image" for literally thousands of years and NEVER ONCE walked away from the verse thinking God was triune. The trinity thrives on preconceived ideas. You think God is a trinity, so when you read these verses you put you project your preconceived beliefs in to the texts. It's an irresponsible way to read scripture. Have you even done research on when the trinity started?
donnycage 7 months ago
@donnycage
I can just reverse that and say that because of your preconcieved notion you blieve that Jesus runs around talking to HIMSELF.
ydnar0591 7 months ago
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donnycage 7 months ago
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donnycage 7 months ago
@ydnar0591 If you want to argue with me, then argue against something I say. The biblical concept of strict monotheism is MUCH older than the foreign concept of the trinity (which did not even BEGIN to surface until the LATE second century) and wasn't fully developed until LATE fifth century. The trinity is a man-made concept that was forged through centuries of debate and controversy. Defined and defined again through councils and creeds. Why? Because it's NOT defined in the Bible
donnycage 7 months ago
@donnycage
There's no point in arguing over once or twice, after that I can tell that it is a waste of time. It's much easier to witness to someone who has not been brainwashed by uninspired books like encyclopedias.
You're NOT gonna change your mind and I'm set in the ageless doctrine of the trinity, that, goes back to Genesis for us, but the TRINITY is actually AGELESS {before ALL things.}.
So why argue at all ?
There has to be 50 different Gospels on the Internet.
ydnar0591 7 months ago
@ydnar0591 and btw.. you should really do historical research on the doctrines you follow. It's as simple as picking up just about any encyclopedia or dictionary or history book that covers the issue and you can see where and how the trinity started.
donnycage 7 months ago
@donnycage
If I do any reseach it's gonna be in something worth my while like the Bible. Not uninspired books of men. When God says those books are inspired too, then I'll do some research in them. Right now I'm not gonna waste Bible reading time on that stuff. Time is running out and I'm gonna learn as much as I can about MY SAVIOR and LORD. The most important thing we can do in THIS LIFE is GET READY FOR THE NEXT LIFE. So I'll get the MOST out of my time by reading GOD's Word.
ydnar0591 7 months ago
@donnycage
Of course the verses did'nt make sense to YOU. You have already made up your mind. You blocked them out. You are not about to let anything in. You are stuck with a ONENESS doctrine. You'll live and die with it, I have no doubt.
That's your right. I'm all for human rights around the world ....as well as the constitutional freedoms we have in this country. GOD given rights as well. God gives us a free will. Praise his Holy name.
ydnar0591 7 months ago
@ydnar0591 wow... "uninspired books"???? It's HISTORY. Plain and simple. You claim the trinity is ageless, yet none of the OT prophets spoke of a triune God. Jesus never once mentioned God was triune (nor did he correct the Jews that have supposedly been wrong for thousands of years) and the apostles never once mentioned a trinity. No, we aren't to find out God is triune until LONG after the pages of the New Testament were written. A doctrine that gradually developed over CENTURIES.
donnycage 7 months ago
@donnycage
These books were not "GOD" inspired. Man's History, YES. Plain and simple yes.
God told us to STUDY and become workmen rightly dividing the Word of truth. The prophets did not HAVE to explain or talk about the MERELY OBVIOUS. The Apostles also did not have to explaiin the OBVIOUS. What do you mean long after NT...YOU still have'nt GOT IT.
The Trinity is as OLD as GOD himself.
The Trinity Pentecostals claim this ONENESS deal SPLIT the movement around 1900.
ydnar0591 7 months ago
@ydnar0591 And furthermore, even if you did ignore history (like you are clearly doing), even if the only book you ever read was the Holy Bible, you will NOT find the trinity in there. It's simply not in the Bible. It's a man-made doctrine that thrives on preconceived ideas. "You ALONE are God" (Psalm 86:10), "You ALONE are the LORD" (Neh 9:6), "I am the LORD, who makes all things, Who stretches out the heavens ALL ALONE, Who spreads abroad the earth BY MYSELF;" (Isa 44:24)
donnycage 7 months ago
@donnycage
It is Bible history I never ignore that.
I already have found the trinity in the Bible in many many places, maybe your problem is 1Cor 2:14.
No it's not man made..... it's of GOD, I assure you..
Yes I agree God is only 1 God...Isa 44:6, Isa 43:10, Ps 90:2 etc etc
The Trinity is as old as God himself.
ydnar0591 7 months ago
@ydnar0591 "the obvious"???? Do you seriously not realize that the Jews have been reading the OT for literally THOUSANDS of years and they do not and have not believed that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is triune? This is what happens when you don't do your research. You are taking a man-made doctrine and trying to project it on a group of people that never believed God was triune. That doctrine was not even a thought until 180 AD.
donnycage 7 months ago
@ydnar0591 If you actually did any type of research you'll find that the trinity (in referece to the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob) wasn't even thought of until around 180 AD (though it wasn't even close to being developed yet... Then was loosely and vaguely defined in 325 AD at the council of Nicea then defined again 481 AD. (Through MUCH debate and controversy). It's NOT an ageless doctrine. In fact there have been pagan trinities FAR older than that trinity. Do some research.
donnycage 7 months ago
@donnycage
Don't need to reaseach anything, since God is 3 persons in one God, then it stands to reason that HE has ALWAYS BEEN. I take it , like everything else I do... by Faith, in God first..and His Word..and beginning in Genesis he clearly [TO ME} is seen as 3 persons 1 God...THE ONLY GOD.
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee "before the world was." JOHN 17:5
For without Faith it is impossible to please God.
ydnar0591 7 months ago
@donnycage
Speaking the OT and the Trinity. Let's see how honest you are and / OR how much in denial you are?
In Genesis 18:1-3 in the KJV {we've all used this Bible and it won't be one of the changed new versions} who are the 3 persons who approach Abrham as he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day? How does Abraham address these 3 persons by what name or Title in verse 3 ? who turned and went to Sodom in 18:21-22? and who stayed with Abraham at his tent? explain Gen 18:18 & 24 ?
ydnar0591 7 months ago
@ydnar0591 (1 of 2) The "three men" in that passage is the LORD with two angels. This is confirmed in verse 22 "Then the men turned away from there and went toward Sodom, but Abraham still stood before the LORD." In fact, this is the SAME answer that the president of the Christian Research Institute (highly recognized TRINITARIAN apologetics org) gives for this passage as well.
donnycage 7 months ago
@donnycage
I knew you would say angels I would have bet the FARM on that.
Verse 18:22 proves that the one person was talking to Abraham was the "LORD".
In Gen 19:18 Lot speaking to the other 2 says: "And Lot said to .."THEM"....not so my "LORD."
Also in Gen 19:24...
24Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven; Gen 19:24
The LORD on earth calls down Fire from the LORD in heaven??? There's a neat trick if you're only 1.
ydnar0591 7 months ago
@ydnar0591 You knew I'd say angels... Did you know the Bible would agree with me, as I have demonstrated? (v 22). Did you know that most studied up trinitarians agree with me as well, including the President of CRI (Trinitarian apologist, Hank Henegraaff)? Why? Because as I pointed out, if you are claiming that there are three SEPERATE men who are each God (similar to what finis Dake taught), then you are NOT promoting Trinitarianism, you are promoting Tritheism. (belief in 3 Gods)
donnycage 7 months ago
@donnycage
I don't follow any man named dake or Calvin or any other man. I follow Jesus Christ and I can read for myself. I don't care who Dake is, or what he or she says or believes. There are also 200,000,000 Muslims that believe they are right about Muhammad, so what? You believe believe in h2o baptism and tongues salvation ....and are as wrong as you can be, so what does any of it prove?
ydnar0591 7 months ago
@ydnar0591 I didn't say you followed him, but if you are pointing to THREE SEPERATE men and claiming that is what God is, then you are promoting TRITHIESM (NOT Trinitarianism). You really need to do more research on your own doctrine. No studied up trinitarian would DARE use that as an example of the trinity.
donnycage 7 months ago
@donnycage
You research ...I'll live by Faith, and reseach the Bible, I can trust it.
ydnar0591 7 months ago
@ydnar0591 You keep claiming you live by faith, but as I have pointed out, this is not a matter of faith. Nowhere in the ENTIRE Bible does it tell you to believe in a triune God. Nothing in the entire cannon of scripture tells us that God is triune. So it's not faith, when you believe in the trinity, because the Bible doesn't mention a trinity. The trinity was man's way of attempting to understand and define an infinite God. It's a man-made doctrine that actually has pagan roots.
donnycage 7 months ago
@donnycage
You better MAKE it about FAITH...WITOUT FAITH IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO PLEASE GOD!
ydnar0591 7 months ago
@donnycage
NO I DON"T AGREE WITH YOU, THANK GOD. Why are you avoidung Gen 19:18
ydnar0591 7 months ago
@ydnar0591 And that is the problem with trying to argue with someone that has not thoroughly done their research on their own doctrines. I don't mean any disrespect, but what I find is that I have to spend a lot of time reminding someone (or teaching someone) about their own doctrine before even moving forward. It's counter productive.
donnycage 7 months ago
@ydnar0591 And as far as the verse you brought up about the LORD raining brimstone from the LORD out of heaven. Then you made the comment about "there's a neat trick if you're only 1"... Well, the Bible is explicitly clear that there IS only ONE (Mar 12:29, Neh 9:6). If you think God is doing neat little tricks, then that's fine too as long as you understand that there is only one LORD. In order to understand how this ONE LORD did this, you need to understand God's omnipresence (Psalm 139:7).
donnycage 7 months ago
@ydnar0591 (2 of 2) Most studied up trinitarians would never dare give that verse as a "proof text" of the trinity. If you are actually pointing to three SEPERATE men and saying they are God, that's NOT trinitarianism, that's TRITHEISM. (Three gods). I really suggest you study your own doctrine more before trying to argue. I used to be trinitarian. I've studied this doctrine more that you can fathom. You aren't going to catch me off guard or surpise me with any verse or argument I haven't seen
donnycage 7 months ago
@donnycage
No it's not tritheeism? IT IS TO YOU, becuse you don't believe any of it. Jesus left to go back to his father and said I will send the comforter to you, speaking of the Holy Sppirit, so even though they can preform different functions at the same time does NOT mean that they are not one God. YOU are thinking like a human thinks, and if we do that we will come up with too much human reasoning every time. No one said it would be easy to figure out and you have'nt figured it out.
ydnar0591 7 months ago
@donnycage
I realize you are locked into what you believe, and there's no one that can PROVE anything to anyone, when we close our minds.
The Gospel really is simple enough for a child to preach. Jesus said we should have the FAITH of little children to enter the Kingdom of God.
3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the "SIMPLICITY" that is in Christ. 2Cor 11:3
Don't outsmart yourself.
ydnar0591 7 months ago
@donnycage
27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: 29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.
Theologians could have studied themselves right into a bad situation. They can't.. ALL.. be right !
ydnar0591 7 months ago
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ydnar0591 7 months ago
@donnycage
39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come "to me", that ye might have life.
Study is fine, but be careful that you don't study yourself into a corner you can't get out of.
There comes a time when we must SIMPLY LIVE by Faith alone, Gal 2:20-21...for without ..."FAITH"... IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO PLEASE GOD.
You have your belief and I have mine. The Gospel is NOT complicated, why are we?
ydnar0591 7 months ago
@ydnar0591 And finally, you mentioned faith. This isn't about faith. The Bible never tells us God is triune. The Bible never tells us to believe in a triune God. So this isn't about faith. This is about an extrabiblical man-made doctrine that gradually developed over centuries,defined through creeds and councils (because it's NOT defined in the Bible). You can believe anything you want. That's between you and God. Just don't say the Bible explicitly teaches it, because it does no such thing.
donnycage 7 months ago
@donnycage
TO YOU it does NO SUCH THING...TO YOU! I realize that. Don't speak for me. I can interpret scripture for myself, with the Holy Spirit's help of course. He does'nt have to study.
ydnar0591 7 months ago
@ydnar0591 This isn't a matter of opinion. If you point to three SEPERATE men and claim that is what God is, then you are promoting tritheism (NOT trinitarianism). Plain and simple. That's a fact. Proponents of Trinitarianism (including CRI) do NOT agree with you, in fact rebuke those that claim there are three SEPERATE "beings" who are God. The Bible doesn't agree with you either (as I have pointed out from v22) yet you still wish to hold to this as an example of trinitarianism, and it's not.
donnycage 7 months ago
@donnycage
You are still avoiding Genesis 19:18 !
ydnar0591 7 months ago
@ydnar0591 You haven't even done research on the doctrines you are trying to promote, so it's counter productive to even argue. And btw lol I'm not "hiding" from anything. There's nothing to "hide" from. Again, you aren't going to catch me off guard with any argument I haven't seen and dealt with a hundred times already. (continued)
donnycage 7 months ago
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donnycage 7 months ago
@ydnar0591 What about Genesis 19:18? The fact that he said "please no my lords?". Are you attempting to argue that there is more than one "LORD" from this verse? Because not only is the Bible EXPLICITLY clear that there is only ONE LORD, but trinitarianism is ADAMANT about the fact that there is only one LORD... If you are using this verse to promote multiple LORDS then, you truly are a tritheist and don't even realize it. But let me educate you so you don't make that mistake again. (continued)
donnycage 7 months ago
@donnycage "
The verse does not say LORDS {plural} it says "And Lot said to "THEM" , OH not so my LORD. {singular}
I know what I beleieve, 3 persons 1 God, how I get there is my business. You are still avoiding the verse Gen 19:18. You are using one of the new Corrupted versions of the so-called Bible The "NIV" ???
Check Isaiah 14:12 in your NIV, it takes out "SATAN" and puts "JESUS" in his place, in the verse. That is "Satanic Blastphemy"
Jesus IS the the "Morning Star" of Rev 22:16.
ydnar0591 7 months ago
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donnycage 7 months ago
@ydnar0591 There is only ONE "LORD" (YHWH) however. That word is NEVER used in reference to men, and you'll never see it plural. God was extremely clear that there is only ONE. You simply don't know enough about this to argue. You really need to do research. Get a good concordace. Talk to your pastor. Study. Do something. This is not working for you. Not only are you misrepresenting your OWN BELIEF system, but you are attempting to promote "multiple LORDS" which is downright tritheism and heresy
donnycage 7 months ago
@ydnar0591 The KJV translates it "lord" and the NKJV translates it "lords" (it's the EXACT same word: 'adown, and the context determines whether it's going to be plural or singluar). Most Bibles translate that particular verse "lords" because of the context, it makes much more sense. The point is, that word is not used exclusively for God. It's used for men or angels. The word "LORD" (YHWH) is used exclusively for God and NEVER used for men/angels Please do more research before trying to argue.
donnycage 7 months ago
@donnycage
The NKJV "is notorious for taking away the "Diety of Christ" as a Whole, scores and scores of verses.
I don't dont, have to research, writings of MEN to find out about GOD, Men's heart are "Decieiptful and ""WICKED" Jeremiah 17:9.
The Holy Spirit guides us into ALL TRUTH. UNLESS YOU ARE MESSING with the "WRONG GOSPEL", IN that case God will "LET YOU BEL:IEVE A LIE."
Get a "relationship with God" and forget the teachings of MEN. College is a bad influence on men.
ydnar0591 7 months ago
@ydnar0591 Like I said, I use the KJV or NKJV. And when I really want to dig deep I simply go to the concordance which gives the Hebrew and Greek. Whoever is giving you your information is flat out lying to you. You are getting corrupted info. You DO need to do research on your own doctrines, and I highly suggest talking with your pastor. You simply do not know what you are talking about, yet you are trying to argue. It does more harm than good. You are not representing your belief system well
donnycage 7 months ago
@donnycage
GOD IS A LIAR?????????The HOLY SPIRIT IS A LIAR?????? you should'nt say that.
ydnar0591 7 months ago
@ydnar0591 I never said the Holy Spirit (who happens to be God) is a liar. So first you are avoiding my question. Second, you won't acknowledge that you were wrong. Third you try to change the subject, and now you are bearing false witness against me? Wow.
donnycage 7 months ago
@donnycage
You said "whoever is giving you your information is FLAT OUT LYING" !!! these are YOUR words !
Got to go to bed , things to do tomorrow.
I HOPE YOU WILL GET SAVED SOMEDAY!!! GOODNITE !
ydnar0591 7 months ago
@ydnar0591 I see you are just going to spout off random things and not deal with it, when you are proven wrong. I've studied this doctrine far more than you have. You are immature and not prepared to debate about this. You REALLY need to study more. You need to do research on your own doctrines. You need to talk to your pastor. You need to discuss your doctrine with truly studied up trinitarians. You are not representing your beliefs properly.
donnycage 7 months ago
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ydnar0591 7 months ago
@donnycage
you are imature, need to study more, research more, dicuss your doctrine...WOW !! Good Advice !
I am So impressed .....YOU are SO GREAT...what a wonderful person..and HUMBLE TOO!
ydnar0591 7 months ago
@ydnar0591 The Holy Spirit did NOT give your your information, which has been PROVEN FALSE. So how DARE you claim that. You tried to use "lord" from v18 yet as I properly demonstrated, it's the SAME word used for men. You REFUSE to acknowledge. You claimed the NIV replaced "Satan" with "Jesus" and it did no such thing. So whoever you ARE getting your information from is LYING. And it's NOT the Holy Spirit.
donnycage 7 months ago
@donnycage
SO You're the JUDGE now!
Judge this: Your god limits the places and conditions under which men can be saved. Because of your H2o and tongues salvation doctrines , mutes can't be saved, People lost in the widerness could not call on God. Young men who were pinned down by enemy gunfire in 2 world wars, Veit Nam, Korea, the civil War etc etc..who cried out to God for forgiveness and repented would be denied , because there was NO water anywhere . There are no athiests in foxholes...
ydnar0591 7 months ago
@donnycage
...and NO Water either.
13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. JOHN 15:13
So your god turns these brave young men down for "Eternal Life" because there's no water for Baptism? .Those who died to keep us free. NO.....Again I can't believe that a Loving God would make impossible demands on people like these.
They have heard the Gospel message and "like the Thief" Called on the LORD for "Mercy", in their hour of great need.
ydnar0591 7 months ago
@donnycage
How dare I claim that? I'll tell you how, because the Holy Spirit I believe in is part of 3 persons that make up the Godhead, The 1 and only God.
You on the other hand have a god who talks to himself, and truns into other persons 1 person at a time, and cannot be both at the same time. THIS is definately 2 different Gospels, and 2 different Jesus' or gods. Somebody is right and somebody has to be wrong. You can't comment on my God in the same way you do yours, they're different.
ydnar0591 7 months ago
@donnycage
The KJV 1611 taht I have uses the word LORD in all upper case..in Gen 19:18.
ydnar0591 7 months ago
@ydnar0591 You really don't understand do you? The OT was written in Hebrew, so if you want to look at the actual word used, you need to go to a concordance. The Hebrew word used is 'adown. This word is not exclusive to God. It's used for men and angels. It was used in reference to Abraham. So is Abraham God? Or will you admit that the word is used in reference to men and angels?
donnycage 7 months ago
@ydnar0591 I'm finding myself having to correct you more than I should. You said in the NIV, Isaiah 14:12 takes out the word Satan and puts "Jesus" in it... No... It doesn't. Isaiah is in the old testament, and even though Jesus (Yeshua) is a common name, and found even in the OT (ie: Joshua: which is the EXACT same name), the name "Jesus" in reference to the Son of God was not revealed until the New Testament. So there isn't a translation alive that would place the word "Jesus" in Isaiah
donnycage 7 months ago
@donnycage
WHO IS THE "MORNING STAR" IN REVELATION 22:16??????? THAT IS PUT IN THE VERSE IN PLACE OF LUCIFER AT ISAIAH 14:12.
YOU are IN DENIAL>????
ydnar0591 7 months ago
@ydnar0591 I properly corrected you about Isaiah 14:12. You claimed they took out "Satan" and put in "Jesus" and they did no such thing. Again. Why are you avoiding the question? Is it that hard to admit you were wrong? You mention "lord" in v 18, which is the exact same word used in reference to Abraham, so once again I ask, is Abraham God? Or will you acknowledge with the Bible that the word "lord" ('adown) can be used in reference to men or angels?
donnycage 7 months ago
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ydnar0591 7 months ago
@donnycage
I don't confess anything to apostates & heretics like you, even if I had something to confess.. If I have something to confess I know where to go , and who to go to. It won't be YOU. I know you have an extremely HIGH regard for yourself, but I don't share your admiration of YOU, with you.
Your works based salvation doctrines, exclude you from even have any credibility at all. You have "ANOTHER GOSPEL and ANOTHER CHRIST, so we are not even dicussing the same God. No sense to it.
ydnar0591 7 months ago
@donnycage
Speaking of new corrupted versions of the Bible, the Jehovah's Witnesses have the opposite problem that you guys have, they belief that the Father is the ONLY GOD, only he don't change into NOTHING he is always the Father and the only GOD. They will take their version and prove to you without a doubt that THEY ARE RIGHT. IF you read THEIR VERSION.. YOU would HAVE to AGREE. That's how it works, just use your version and prove your point. A single WORD in the right place can DO IT.
ydnar0591 7 months ago
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ydnar0591 7 months ago
@ydnar0591 The word used in Gen 19:18 "lords", if you'll notice is lower cased. This is because the word for "lords" here is not exclusively used for the LORD God. The word is 'adown and CAN be used for the LORD God, but more times than not, it's used for men (Gen 23:16; Gen 24:18). Can be used for a prince, a husband, a prophet, a king, an angel, ect.. (Continued)
donnycage 7 months ago
@ydnar0591 If you see the word "LORD" fully capitalized (most Bibles do that for you, so you know the difference between the two words) IT is EXCLUSIVE to the LORD God. That word is NEVER used in reference to mere men. Only to the LORD God almighty. That word is YHWH, which is unpronouncable. Later the Hebrews added in the vowels from adonai creating a pronouncable name "Yahweh", then a variation, "Yehovah" and another "Yehovih". Later when the "J"s were added in we get "Jehovah and Jehovih.
donnycage 7 months ago
@donnycage
Yes I know all about the tetragram.... YHWH and the translated JHVH and "Yahweh and Jehovah" being non-names.... then they took vowels from adonai.
Exactly LORD...is GOD ALMIGHTY..and Lot called the 2 men LORD..in vs 18.
ydnar0591 7 months ago
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donnycage 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@ydnar0591 Negative. The word in v 18 "lords" (or "lord") is the EXACT same word ('adown) used in reference to Abraham. In Gen 23:6. So again, I ask you. Is Abraham God?
donnycage 7 months ago
@ydnar0591 So basically what can be learned from this, is the arguments you've been holding on to, to promote your doctrine aren't really as concrete as you think they are. "lord" or "lords" is a title that can be attributed to men. It was a very common title in fact. But there is only one LORD (YHWH). Again, only ONE. That is the position that not only the Bible is CRYSTAL clear on, but also Trinitarianism is extremely adamant about it as well. Please do research before trying to argue more.
donnycage 7 months ago
@donnycage
You sound like the Jehovah's Witnesses now, trying to say that Lord Means a title for men, when it referrs to Jesus as the LORD.
Why did'nt Abraham address the 3 persons separately when they approached him, so as not to mix the LORD GOD with mear Angels. He addressed the 3 as LORD.
Besides you are saying now that these titles "lord" are attributed to"MEN"..first you said they were "ANGELS"...make up your mind. MEN or ANGELS ?...WHICH IS IT ?
ydnar0591 7 months ago
@ydnar0591 Wait, so you are NOT acknowledging that the word "lord" is used in reference to men? Seriously? Even after I gave you verses that clearly show that it IS used for men? Again, "And the sons of Heth answered Abraham, saying to him, Hear us, my lord ('adown)..." (Gen 23:6) So is Abraham, God? And the word can be used for men OR angels. The point is it's NOT used exclusively for God. Do you want more? I can give you a PLETHORA of scripture showing "lord" not in reference to the LORD God.
donnycage 7 months ago
@donnycage
The First person saved under the New Testament was a Criminal and a THIEF, and HE did not have to STUDY anything he was SAVED hanging on a cross , simply placing his FAITH in GOD. He was not dipped in water, did not speak in tongues, none of that. HE BELIEVED IN HIS HEART AND CONFESSED WITH HIS MOUTH, CALLING ON THE LORD. Romans 10-8-13
ydnar0591 7 months ago
@ydnar0591 Stop avoiding the question. You brought up v18, "lords" (or "lord), ['adown] which is the EXACT same word given in reference to Abraham. So is Abraham God? Or will you acknowledge (along with the Bible) that the word "lord" ('adown) is not exclusive to God and can be used in reference to men or angels?
donnycage 7 months ago
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donnycage 7 months ago
@ydnar0591 (2 of 2) No, we aren't to find out God is a "trinity" until LONG after the pages of the NT were written. Through centuries of debate and controversy. Defined and defined again through councils and creeds. Why? Because it's NOT defined in the Bible.
donnycage 8 months ago
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ydnar0591 8 months ago
I believe both the oneness and the trinitarians are both WRONG, on the topic of the Godhead.
BryanJ729 1 year ago
What person believes they are going to see three separate persons in heaven. That is crazy. When we get to heaven we will see one God on the throne, Jesus Christ, not three, that's crazy. Jesus said if you have seen me you have seen the Father. So they couldn't be two separate persons. Jesus is the image of God. God, please open these trinitarians eyes.
rachel4779 1 year ago
@rachel4779
We will see not a separate person in heaven but three persons in ONE GOD. Is it hard to understand that?
KOMIKO007 1 year ago
@KOMIKO007 Yeah, can you explain it in a little more detail. Because I would like to know what you as a trinitarian will see when you get to heaven. What do you mean three persons in God. Is that three different person that is one God or three different person, each being God. Thank you.
rachel4779 1 year ago
@rachel4779
let me repeat.
THREE DISTINCT PERSONS IN ONE BEING of GOD in short THREE PERSONS is ONE GOD.
GOD the FATHER - CO-EQUAL and CO-ETERNAL GOD
GOD the SON - CO-EQUAL and CO-ETERNAL GOD
GOD the HOLY SPIRIT - CO-EQUAL and CO-ETERNAL GOD.
KOMIKO007 1 year ago
@rachel4779
What if we said 3 personalities in one , you would'nt have problem with that. You are a triune person if you are a father, and a son,and a spirit., a mother a daughter or son and a spirit. You may be a father and don't know it? YET !
With people it would be a parent, a child, and a spirit. 3 in one. Do you believe that is possible? Then why can't GOD be that? Especially when he makes it so Clear that he IS that.
You are a Body, soul and spirit , 3 in 1. We ALL are that.
ydnar0591 8 months ago
hahahahhahahah this one is so funny!!!!!!
Stinkko 1 year ago
Human philosophy does not work when it comes to HaShems Holy word. One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.Eph.4:6
Malachi 2:10 Have we not all one Father? Did not one God create us?
Romans 11:36 For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be the glory forever!
1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father..
Yahshuas statement takes on tremendous meaning" He that has seen me has seen The Father"One G-d revealed in Him
MessianicViewpoint 1 year ago
God is Trinitarian. Think about water. Water changes into three states: gas, liquid and solid and yet it still remains water. Likewise, God has three states: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and yet still remains God. All three are God and all three are Lord. But there is only 1 Father, one Son, one HS. The Father is not the Son nor the Son the Holy Spirit, but all are God.
Gethsemaneful 1 year ago
Elohim has the plural ending "im" but not to be confused with a plurality of G-d
Many Hebrew words have a plural ending but mean singular such as Mayim(water)
Elohim can mean G-d gods demon or divine can be attributed to dieties or humanity. A basic study in Hebrew will show this. Yahshua is "ben Elchai" son of the living G-d NOT GOD the Son. There is no 'God The Son' in scripture, No 'God the Holy Ghost'. Sorry my brother but these terms are man made and adulterate The word of HaShem. Shalom
MessianicViewpoint 1 year ago
Acording to Eph.4. '..there is only one Elohim(God), the Father. The word Father And G-d are interchangable. " Our Father( G-d) who is in heaven ..."
Elohim's Name was given to Moses." I Am that I Am" Or "YHWH" pronounced YAHWEH. The Name of the son of Elohim given to a Jewish maiden was not the English word "Jesus". It was the Hebrew Name "Yahshua". Yahshua means Yahweh is Salvation. Thats why Yahshua is called Emanuel, Elohim 'God' with us. I am Not UPC but you mock Gods Spirit and people.
MessianicViewpoint 1 year ago
@MessianicViewpoint Elohim is plural meaning more than two,1 God represented by 3 distinct persons.God the Father,God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.All have distinct functions in salvation,but the same common goal.The Father elects and draws them,the Holy Spirit convicts them and Jesus died for their sins and keeps them.Jesus is not an actor playing roles,He is the eternal Son and always has been the Son.The whole first chapter of Hebrews explains this very well.May God Bless You.
CBALLEN 1 year ago
If Jesus is not our Father, then He is not God. Jesus is the Holy Spirit, the Baptizer, the One Who will never leave or forsake us, the Everlasting Father. Yet he was not only God. He was also a MAN. This is why Jesus AS A MAN could pray to God His Father. No trinity here. This is the mystery of the Incarnation, that God manifest Himself in the body of His son. How Jesus,the son of God, could pray to the One Who fully inhabited Him is indeed mysterious, far above your poor power to mock.
jhall38 1 year ago
That the Father is NOT coequal with the son is demonstrable in the Lord's prayer. Jesus taught us to pray, "Our Father Who art in heaven". He did not say "Our Son Who art in heaven". God does not relate to us as a son. If there were a 2nd person, "God the Son" in the Deity, we should relate to Him in terms of Sonship. He could be our Son. This is not possible. God relates to us as Father. The Person we call on is Jesus, the Father of all us children. Jesus is not merely a man, the son of God.
jhall38 1 year ago
The Bible NOWHERE uses the expression "God the Son". That is a demonic invention taken up by false pastors. The only expression used in scripture is "son of God". The expressions "God the Son" & "son of God" are not the same, though they are treated as though they are. The expression is necessary to formulate the 4th century Catholic doctrine which imagined a divine family of a sort, a Father with a Son within the Godhead. This is not Bible. The Father is GREATER than the son, not equal.
jhall38 1 year ago
Confusion about God beginning with the man-made doctrine of the trinity is ubiquitous. It is doubtful that there has been any more pernicious doctrine in Christian history. It makes of God 3 persons when the clear doctrine of scripture makes of God only ONE person. (Hebrews) Jesus was God. This is clear. He was God by virtue of the Spirit that was in Him in Its fullness. God was in Jesus. God IS a spirit. God is NOT anyone's son. God MADE a son. God's SON died on the cross, not God.
jhall38 1 year ago
"We teach that the Father bruised Himself and killed Himself on the cross." This is a lie on two accounts. It is a lie regarding UPC doctrine and it is a lie about God, the latter the greater lie. The UPC teaches that God was in Christ reconciling Himself to the world. Jesus was the Father by virtue of the Spirit Who fully indwelt Him. We can not say that the Father died. Jesus gave up His Spirit. That was the Spirit of God who left Jesus at the cross. Jesus left his own body as a Spirit.
jhall38 1 year ago
The only reference to God in the Bible using the language of "person" is singular (Hebrews). The trinity doctrine referring to "three persons" is not therefore Biblical. The Bible makes it clear. He is our Father. This speaks of the way He relates to His children. He is a Spirit. This is not to say that the Father is a person and the Spirit is another one. Sonship is not an attribute of Divinity but of humanity. God made a man, His son, and indwelt him fully. We do not pray, "Oh, my Son".
jhall38 1 year ago
Michael Servetus wasn't a modalist...
ElasticGiraffe 1 year ago