Is it progressive or regressive? Here is the quote from one of the Beacon Hill treatises on the AFT site:
"The key result of the foregoing discussion is that it matters fundamentally how one frames the discussion of the distributional effects of the FairTax. When people are sorted by expenditure per capita, the FairTax is progressive; when they are sorted by income per capita, it is regressive."
Those who undertand what this means now understand what a bad idea the "Fair" Tax is.
Beware of these names. They're all the same person, a FairTax spammer who doesn't work. BullshipDetector, CanteenKid, FarceTax, FilmCriticOne, NawwLeans, MakeMyPower, MarkDouglasC, MathTruthTax, MyBookDeal, MyBookWork, NavyBeer, NeilTaxCon, PrebateNonsense, Taxfools,? TaxSanity, TruthMattersToMe, TubeTaxPro, 12FlyMe, SteamBoatCamp, ItchMyFoot, RooferHoofer, MybookDeal, etc etc.
Do you really want to raise taxes on the middle classes (those making from $15,000 to $150,000 a year) while lowering the taxes of the wealthy (those making more than $150,000 a year), Senator?
You might want to have your staff look at the data-- even the SUPPORTING org's data shows that this "Fair" Tax aka National Sales Tax-Inclusive aka NASTI would raise the taxes of the middle classes. See tinyurl 593htl, pages 30-on, particularly Table 13 years 7-8 and 15-16 to see one trick they try.
From BHI/fairtaxorg:"Households in the lowest income band, with an (AGI) of less than $10,000 annually, would benefit because they would receive the prebate that would more than offset any higher cost of purchasing goods.Households in the top income category, with more than $150,000 in annual income, would also gain as they do not have to pay their highest marginal tax rates. Mid-income category households would lose because the Fair Tax would impose a relatively higher tax rate on them."
The Fair Tax is a fraud because it is based on the fallacy that government theft (taxation) should be done in a "fair" manner instead of eliminated altogether.
Ha, Adakin talking to Yoda... Thanks Merlin for the 'heads up'. I've ran into these "fine print" wackos on several other blogs... all preaching from the same anti-FT book about 'gummit' taxing itself, but all of them tax their own employees, which effectively is the same thing... they pay a wage and pay/collect a tax on that wage. No mention of all the macro-economic benefits that the FT would bring... like repatriation of capital and of course, job creation big time. Thanks again.
"Itch Foot" Ah, you are another one of those "fine print" guys... well, here's the fine print on gov't taxing itself... over 2 million federal employees get paid twice a month and guess what? Each and every one of them has their taxes withheld from their paycheck. Just like the FairTax, the Fed "buys" the services of their employees, and pays the tax on that purchase. only everyone calls it 'withholding'. So stick that in your "fine print" and smoke it. And wash your mouth out with soap!
@AdakinValorem From what the community's been able to tell, there is only one "fine print guy", dubbed "Mark". He posts under several accounts on YouTube. If the title has "FairTax" in it, you can bet good money that he's posted a profanity-laced comments about how the FairTax is a "farce"; questions the intelligence supporters, etc. In short, he's an anti-FairTax troll. You can ignore him since there's not enough characters on YT to utterly annihilate points ... not that he'd pay them any mind.
Fairtax sounds great only because they hide the insane crap in the footnotes and fine print.
See my videos -- I show you their fine print and footnotes. Also, see Fairtax goofy calculator -- what a pile of shit. Fairtax is a con, a farce, a total pile of shit.
Sounds great though. Have hearings under oath about this shit -- watch the rabbits run.
The government will not have to pay in advance. What people need to learn is this. Business' don't pay any taxes. They simply pass this expense onto the buyers of their goods and sercices. Including the Government. We are paying their taxes right now. The Fairtax simply exposes this "shell game". Let's set America free and let our economy grow. Please learn the truth about the FairTax and contact your local FairTax group to help out. Learn the TRUTH. FairTax: True Tax Reform to SAVE America.
What a bunch of crap! Anyone in the middle-class who believes this Lugar Liar is stupid! The so called "Fair Tax" will decrease the tax burden on the very wealthy by nearly 21% while increasing taxes on the middle-class by 5% to 7%. The only reason Lugar Liar supports it is that it benefits the very wealthy elite few (e.g. the Koch brothers) who really run the Republican Party.
Still playing the corporate toadie Lugar? Let's put the tax problems on the back of the same dumbasses commenting here, calling you a hero. They don't realize you and all the other pukes lining up behind this travesty do the bidding of the Koch Brothers and others. Nice work -- court jester....
Implementing a national consumption tax, while simultaneously closing the IRS will greatly empower the American people and our economy. FairTax is not a Republican issue or a Democrat issue, it is an American issue as it empowers all Americans regardless of political viewpoint. Good work Sen. Lugar!
With the implementation of the FairTax, companies would be tripping over themselves to set up shop in America. Our economy and jobs, would grow exponentially. It would also eliminate fraud and corruption, no more Congressional favors to big donors, not more loopholes, a coherent, FAIR system of taxation! Our Founders would be proud.
Thank you, Senator Lugar, for this very lucid yet concise explanation of some of the many benefits of the FairTax proposal.
One thing that I would add is that with Japan announcing that they are lowering their corporate tax rate, we will soon have unquestionably the worst tax system on the planet (if we don't already) from the standpoint of global competitiveness. In addition to having the highest corporate tax rate, we are also the only OECD nation with no border adjustment element.
@292watson Fairtax is a pile of shit -- go the FUCK ahead and pass it, retard. At least have hearings, you fucktard. Fairtax is so goofy, their own leaders don't dare fucking have hearings under oath.
@6Roe Fairtax is a fucking farce, it's own leaders know it, they laugh at your dumb ass for believing it.
A 800 billion dollar tax on GOVERNMENT??? 300 billion of that has to be paid IN ADVANCE? What kind of fucking sales tax is on pensions and salaries, you fucking idiot. Read the fucking fine print.
@6Roe - His name is Mark Douglas Curran. He's 58 years old and has been diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic. I'd also diagnose him with Obsessive-Compulsive disorder. He lives in Quincy, Ill in a nursing home. His congressman, Bobby Shilling, R-Ill is a FairTax supporter.
@ItchMyFoot - Moron, before they can have hearings, a bill has to first be released from committee. HR25 has not left committee. Go see Schoolhouse Rock, "I'm just a bill".
Thank you Sir, for supporting this movement. Improve opportunities for Americans and American businesses.
All those who think this is a great idea need to go to FairTax.org and back up your support with whatever you can afford from your wallet. It takes more than wishes to get anything done in Washington DC. Anyone who opposes this should provide facts, and think about what a disaster the current tax code is. You gripe about big business avoiding taxes, well this plan has balance!
Hey, ItchyFoot! How about scratching something of mine? You have clearly not done your homework on this one. And if you have, how about backing up your assertions with facts, instead of just making wild claims?
Fairtax is goofy nonsense -- a massive tax on every city government in Indiana, in fact, every city would have to pay taxes to the federal governmetn on WAGES and BENEFITS it pays.
Have you researched the history of taxation in America? Do you know how many pages the current tax code contains? Have you listened to economists, and studied economics? Who is your idea of the worst President in American history (mine is Woodrow Wilson)?
You have a better idea? Then we are all ears. If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem!
@kkelley1957 yes you stupid fuck, and I know what Fairtax shit head fine print says, you stupid fuck.
I read the fine print, the foot notes, and what real experts -- their OWN experts -- said. For example, you stupid fuck, their OWN main resesarcher, Dale Jorgenson, said essentially they were NUTS or liars, take your pick.
You stupid fuck, go read the footnotes and fine print, you idiot.
Thank you Senator Lugar. I have followed the Fair Tax for a long time and it is now starting to generate more excitement. A tax system where the poor do not pay burdensome taxes, no embedded taxes in prices of products, drug dealers, pimps, hookers, those working under the table and of course illegal aliens will all pay taxes for the first time in their lives. Best of all, only Americans get the prebate, illegals would not, so in essence would pay extra which may reduce illegal immigration.
Thank you for formally supporting the Fair Tax proposal. For the naysayers, I respectfully ask them to provide a counter-proposal that can come close to matching the impact the FairTax would have on stopping special interest lobbyists from distorting the tax code to favor the well-heeled, as well as find a more progressive tax that will completely un-tax the poor up to the poverty level, as well as provide a "more carrot-less stick" approach to encouraging illegal immigrants to become legal.
Although I've never voted for him, I've said in the past that Dick Lugar is probably the closest thing to a "statesman" our country has. His presentation on his support for the FairTax is as polished as usual, but, after all. he's had a lot of practice. I was in my early 20s when he was first elected. One of the best and most compelling arguments for the FairTax is that exempts no one. Drug dealers and hookers like their new bling. Foreign tourists usually don't usually buy used souvenirs.
It may not be a perfect system, but what we are doing now is not working. I like the idea of removing penalties for working. I like the idea of spreading the tax base to include those deriving income from illegal sources. I like the idea of the prebate to everyone, to totally offset taxation of those with minimal resources. If what we have is killing the economy and driving up the debt, it is time we start over with a new fair approach.
Lets FixIt It's about time! You, Mr. Lugar, have made the right move. Now, the true challange awaits you. Can you convince 2 of you fellow Senators to make the same move?
This has been flagged as spam show
Is it progressive or regressive? Here is the quote from one of the Beacon Hill treatises on the AFT site:
"The key result of the foregoing discussion is that it matters fundamentally how one frames the discussion of the distributional effects of the FairTax. When people are sorted by expenditure per capita, the FairTax is progressive; when they are sorted by income per capita, it is regressive."
Those who undertand what this means now understand what a bad idea the "Fair" Tax is.
Diskatop 2 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
There is a BETTER way and it's not a national sales tax.. I think you will agree. please visit NIFTYTAX dot com
Niftytax 1 month ago
Beware of these names. They're all the same person, a FairTax spammer who doesn't work. BullshipDetector, CanteenKid, FarceTax, FilmCriticOne, NawwLeans, MakeMyPower, MarkDouglasC, MathTruthTax, MyBookDeal, MyBookWork, NavyBeer, NeilTaxCon, PrebateNonsense, Taxfools,? TaxSanity, TruthMattersToMe, TubeTaxPro, 12FlyMe, SteamBoatCamp, ItchMyFoot, RooferHoofer, MybookDeal, etc etc.
urgener 7 months ago
Do you really want to raise taxes on the middle classes (those making from $15,000 to $150,000 a year) while lowering the taxes of the wealthy (those making more than $150,000 a year), Senator?
You might want to have your staff look at the data-- even the SUPPORTING org's data shows that this "Fair" Tax aka National Sales Tax-Inclusive aka NASTI would raise the taxes of the middle classes. See tinyurl 593htl, pages 30-on, particularly Table 13 years 7-8 and 15-16 to see one trick they try.
FairTaxisaLie 8 months ago
From BHI/fairtaxorg:"Households in the lowest income band, with an (AGI) of less than $10,000 annually, would benefit because they would receive the prebate that would more than offset any higher cost of purchasing goods.Households in the top income category, with more than $150,000 in annual income, would also gain as they do not have to pay their highest marginal tax rates. Mid-income category households would lose because the Fair Tax would impose a relatively higher tax rate on them."
FairTaxisaLie 8 months ago
The Fair Tax is a fraud because it is based on the fallacy that government theft (taxation) should be done in a "fair" manner instead of eliminated altogether.
indyCoder66 8 months ago
Sounds a lot at Mike Huckabee almost 4 years ago. Dick, the time has changed and you have NOT!
therealthing.blogs.com/there_is_no_second_place/2007/12/fair-tax-is-not.html
indyCoder66 8 months ago
How are the retired and the disabled taxed or given a tax free status?
indyCoder66 8 months ago
Ha, Adakin talking to Yoda... Thanks Merlin for the 'heads up'. I've ran into these "fine print" wackos on several other blogs... all preaching from the same anti-FT book about 'gummit' taxing itself, but all of them tax their own employees, which effectively is the same thing... they pay a wage and pay/collect a tax on that wage. No mention of all the macro-economic benefits that the FT would bring... like repatriation of capital and of course, job creation big time. Thanks again.
AdakinValorem 8 months ago
"Itch Foot" Ah, you are another one of those "fine print" guys... well, here's the fine print on gov't taxing itself... over 2 million federal employees get paid twice a month and guess what? Each and every one of them has their taxes withheld from their paycheck. Just like the FairTax, the Fed "buys" the services of their employees, and pays the tax on that purchase. only everyone calls it 'withholding'. So stick that in your "fine print" and smoke it. And wash your mouth out with soap!
AdakinValorem 8 months ago
@AdakinValorem From what the community's been able to tell, there is only one "fine print guy", dubbed "Mark". He posts under several accounts on YouTube. If the title has "FairTax" in it, you can bet good money that he's posted a profanity-laced comments about how the FairTax is a "farce"; questions the intelligence supporters, etc. In short, he's an anti-FairTax troll. You can ignore him since there's not enough characters on YT to utterly annihilate points ... not that he'd pay them any mind.
MerlinYoda 8 months ago
Fairtax sounds great only because they hide the insane crap in the footnotes and fine print.
See my videos -- I show you their fine print and footnotes. Also, see Fairtax goofy calculator -- what a pile of shit. Fairtax is a con, a farce, a total pile of shit.
Sounds great though. Have hearings under oath about this shit -- watch the rabbits run.
ItchMyFoot 8 months ago
Profanity is the Refuge of an Inarticulate Mother Fucker.
If you can not propound a rational argument against the FairTax, please sit on the sidelines whining.
FairTaxPCP 8 months ago
The government will not have to pay in advance. What people need to learn is this. Business' don't pay any taxes. They simply pass this expense onto the buyers of their goods and sercices. Including the Government. We are paying their taxes right now. The Fairtax simply exposes this "shell game". Let's set America free and let our economy grow. Please learn the truth about the FairTax and contact your local FairTax group to help out. Learn the TRUTH. FairTax: True Tax Reform to SAVE America.
LA04FairTax 8 months ago
What a bunch of crap! Anyone in the middle-class who believes this Lugar Liar is stupid! The so called "Fair Tax" will decrease the tax burden on the very wealthy by nearly 21% while increasing taxes on the middle-class by 5% to 7%. The only reason Lugar Liar supports it is that it benefits the very wealthy elite few (e.g. the Koch brothers) who really run the Republican Party.
GodsReligionChannel 8 months ago
Still playing the corporate toadie Lugar? Let's put the tax problems on the back of the same dumbasses commenting here, calling you a hero. They don't realize you and all the other pukes lining up behind this travesty do the bidding of the Koch Brothers and others. Nice work -- court jester....
HolyHannah 8 months ago
Implementing a national consumption tax, while simultaneously closing the IRS will greatly empower the American people and our economy. FairTax is not a Republican issue or a Democrat issue, it is an American issue as it empowers all Americans regardless of political viewpoint. Good work Sen. Lugar!
dtstrick 8 months ago
With the implementation of the FairTax, companies would be tripping over themselves to set up shop in America. Our economy and jobs, would grow exponentially. It would also eliminate fraud and corruption, no more Congressional favors to big donors, not more loopholes, a coherent, FAIR system of taxation! Our Founders would be proud.
Parvstella 8 months ago
Thank you, Senator Lugar, for this very lucid yet concise explanation of some of the many benefits of the FairTax proposal.
One thing that I would add is that with Japan announcing that they are lowering their corporate tax rate, we will soon have unquestionably the worst tax system on the planet (if we don't already) from the standpoint of global competitiveness. In addition to having the highest corporate tax rate, we are also the only OECD nation with no border adjustment element.
Phil0will1 8 months ago
Comment removed
292watson 8 months ago
@292watson Fairtax is a pile of shit -- go the FUCK ahead and pass it, retard. At least have hearings, you fucktard. Fairtax is so goofy, their own leaders don't dare fucking have hearings under oath.
ItchMyFoot 8 months ago
@ItchMyFoot cant you speak without profanity. You are showing how smart you.(can you think of other words to use)
And you sure don't care about the feelings of others.
6Roe 8 months ago
@6Roe Fairtax is a fucking farce, it's own leaders know it, they laugh at your dumb ass for believing it.
A 800 billion dollar tax on GOVERNMENT??? 300 billion of that has to be paid IN ADVANCE? What kind of fucking sales tax is on pensions and salaries, you fucking idiot. Read the fucking fine print.
ItchMyFoot 8 months ago
@6Roe - His name is Mark Douglas Curran. He's 58 years old and has been diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic. I'd also diagnose him with Obsessive-Compulsive disorder. He lives in Quincy, Ill in a nursing home. His congressman, Bobby Shilling, R-Ill is a FairTax supporter.
NAGGERNUTZ 8 months ago
@ItchMyFoot - Moron, before they can have hearings, a bill has to first be released from committee. HR25 has not left committee. Go see Schoolhouse Rock, "I'm just a bill".
NAGGERNUTZ 8 months ago
As A Hoosier, I'm really shocked by this move. This move smells of desperation and kowtowing to a far-right fringe of the republican party.
darsh5k 8 months ago
Thank you Sir, for supporting this movement. Improve opportunities for Americans and American businesses.
All those who think this is a great idea need to go to FairTax.org and back up your support with whatever you can afford from your wallet. It takes more than wishes to get anything done in Washington DC. Anyone who opposes this should provide facts, and think about what a disaster the current tax code is. You gripe about big business avoiding taxes, well this plan has balance!
kkelley1957 8 months ago
Hey, ItchyFoot! How about scratching something of mine? You have clearly not done your homework on this one. And if you have, how about backing up your assertions with facts, instead of just making wild claims?
deliriousdan637 8 months ago
Fairtax is goofy nonsense -- a massive tax on every city government in Indiana, in fact, every city would have to pay taxes to the federal governmetn on WAGES and BENEFITS it pays.
In advance -- see fairtax fine print
ItchMyFoot 8 months ago
@ItchMyFoot
Have you researched the history of taxation in America? Do you know how many pages the current tax code contains? Have you listened to economists, and studied economics? Who is your idea of the worst President in American history (mine is Woodrow Wilson)?
You have a better idea? Then we are all ears. If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem!
kkelley1957 8 months ago
@kkelley1957 yes you stupid fuck, and I know what Fairtax shit head fine print says, you stupid fuck.
I read the fine print, the foot notes, and what real experts -- their OWN experts -- said. For example, you stupid fuck, their OWN main resesarcher, Dale Jorgenson, said essentially they were NUTS or liars, take your pick.
You stupid fuck, go read the footnotes and fine print, you idiot.
ItchMyFoot 8 months ago
Thank you Senator Lugar. I have followed the Fair Tax for a long time and it is now starting to generate more excitement. A tax system where the poor do not pay burdensome taxes, no embedded taxes in prices of products, drug dealers, pimps, hookers, those working under the table and of course illegal aliens will all pay taxes for the first time in their lives. Best of all, only Americans get the prebate, illegals would not, so in essence would pay extra which may reduce illegal immigration.
jlauniere 8 months ago
Thank you for formally supporting the Fair Tax proposal. For the naysayers, I respectfully ask them to provide a counter-proposal that can come close to matching the impact the FairTax would have on stopping special interest lobbyists from distorting the tax code to favor the well-heeled, as well as find a more progressive tax that will completely un-tax the poor up to the poverty level, as well as provide a "more carrot-less stick" approach to encouraging illegal immigrants to become legal.
pianoguytv 8 months ago
Although I've never voted for him, I've said in the past that Dick Lugar is probably the closest thing to a "statesman" our country has. His presentation on his support for the FairTax is as polished as usual, but, after all. he's had a lot of practice. I was in my early 20s when he was first elected. One of the best and most compelling arguments for the FairTax is that exempts no one. Drug dealers and hookers like their new bling. Foreign tourists usually don't usually buy used souvenirs.
deliriousdan637 8 months ago
It may not be a perfect system, but what we are doing now is not working. I like the idea of removing penalties for working. I like the idea of spreading the tax base to include those deriving income from illegal sources. I like the idea of the prebate to everyone, to totally offset taxation of those with minimal resources. If what we have is killing the economy and driving up the debt, it is time we start over with a new fair approach.
arcookie1 8 months ago
Lets FixIt It's about time! You, Mr. Lugar, have made the right move. Now, the true challange awaits you. Can you convince 2 of you fellow Senators to make the same move?
letfixitny 8 months ago
Gee, it election time must be close. I don't buy it Mr. Lugar
awfisher420 8 months ago
Thank you Senator Lugar for joining us for true tax reform! #fairtax
chindolph 8 months ago