Gold List Method for learning to L/T memory part two

[ColKorn1965]

Traveling to Russian, being surrounded by the language, and having a guide who spoke no English at all helped me more in one week than all my lessons, and internet tutorials put together. I can't wait to go back and spend more time.

[mynameismarvin]

mr. huliganov, i have a question. how will you know if you have already learnt the vocabulary? do you cover the english meaning and look at every word? or simply browse through the vocabulary, looking for a word you don't know? thank you for this methodology. this is my first time watching this video and i have been having problems in remembering vocabulary. i hope this will help me. :D

[fightingnate]

how do you not think you use muscle memory for typing on a keyboard? how do you think some people can type 100 wpm? why do you think there are typing lessons and programs? typing (if you type correctly and efficiently) requires just as much memory as writing.

[usenetposts]

@fightingnate The answer's more than 500 characters, so I'd ask you to find it on huliganov dot tv blog, entitled "True to type?" - give me about half an hour to write it - assuming nobody interrupts me.

[usenetposts]

@fightingnate Did you see my answer on Hulganov TV?

[fightingnate]

@usenetposts yes, thanks for the long response. You make some good points, but I'm still unconvinced based on lack of scientific data/way to quantitatively measure and compare both methods and also based on my own experiences. I've studied both by typing and writing notes out and have not found one method particularly more effective than the other for retaining information. You're definitely right about writing being more personal, but my point is that both functions are very automatic due to

[fightingnate]

@fightingnate them both being stored in one's long term memory. So when you're writing out notes or vocab lists or whatever, you're not consciously thinking about how you put the pen to the paper or how you move your fingers to the correct keys; It is an automatic function. To me that means that the main thing you're trying to store into your short term (and then long term) memory is the task at hand.

[fightingnate]

@fightingnate So the medium in which it's performed is automatic, therefore should not have any bearing on the uptake of that information. Hope that makes sense.

[fightingnate]

@fightingnate You still have to think about WHAT you're writing or typing out in order to store it into your memory, which is why writing/typing stuff out is more effective than just reading something. It's the act of connecting muscle memory with information.

[usenetposts]

@fightingnate I'm not just suggesting people should just read, they also should write.

You could use the computer and do a gold list. You could set it all up very nicely in Excel or even make a dedicated program, but it would tie users to sitting at a keyboard and screen for more hours in their day, and when it comes to languages with many diacritics or to things like Chinese symbols, it will just slow you right down.

That article, which I'm glad you read, gives many reasons to do GL by hand.

[Batyaboo]

Sometimes there are distractions (kids) but usually not.

Heck, how is it possible to remember the meaning of a completely new word after 2 weeks, having only seen it, said it and written it once?

I'm not giving up. I will try to see to it that there are less distractions. I really need to build up my vocabulary in Russian and I can't wait for that AHA! when I'm immersed in it in Moscow and actually recognize words!

[usenetposts]

@Batyaboo It generally does. Maybe you are trying too hard, somehow. Have a look at the film among those in the related films to the right of here called "Finally convinced the goldlist works" that guy was not playing along, he really was surprised how much his long-term memory had sampled.

It could be that you would be benefitted by writing the new words in both cyrillic and Latin until you get more fluent in the cyrillic.

[Batyaboo]

Ok, I've been doing this for over a month. I'm finding that words that I had previously learned in my Russian class - I am more able to remember and can do that first distillation down to 17 words. Other words - words that I copied out of the dictionary etc. - I can't find 8 words to chuck out. If the words in the list are words I never really used or learned in class I totally do not remember them. HELP!!

[usenetposts]

@Batyaboo Do you copy the words from the dictionary when very tired, while listening to music or having many distractions, or having had some wine? These are examples of things that might reduce the ability of the long term memory to sample...

[Batyaboo]

This looks like a very interesting method. I'm going to try it with my Russian. My husband is wondering why the distillation and review must take place after more than 14 days. Is this based on any particular research or your own observations? I am also going to see how to incorporate your methods into my kids' studies. Thanks!

[usenetposts]

@Batyaboo What it's based on is set out at even tedious length in my part of the Polyglot Project book (see channel of syzygycc, who edited it). The reason you wait 14 days is in order to exclude the possibility that a word is only learned to the short-term memory (which humans developed in order to gain an advantage over the other dominant species). If you don't wait that long, you could think a word was learned forever when it is only in the short-term memory.

[Batyaboo]

@usenetposts One more question. Is this method only appropriate for learning a new language or can it be used to learn other things (by school kids, for example)? I'm wondering how I can help my daughter who is 13 using this method.

[usenetposts]

@Batyaboo If you can overcome the resistance that will inevitably come from the teachers (nobody likes to be made redundant) then 13 is a great age to start with this. Let her have it as a "secret weapon" to give her an edge on learning.

[hellokittydimaggio]

my handwriting's never the same, it changes randomly.

does that mean i'm crazy?

[usenetposts]

@hellokittydimaggio Not necessarily. Some younger people who have mainly written on keyboards and never has a chance to develop their handwriting style can write very erratically, and all it says about them is that they don't write enough. Or it can be that your mood affects your body language more than with most people. Handwriting is part - a very refined part, but part - of body language.

[Supermegsmg]

@usenetposts - yeah... and it just happens to be an identical person. LOL. Good acting skills. Impressive :)

Best regards!

[usenetposts]

@Supermegsmg Don't miss Paddy O Donahue, Sproey von Weytzentrenner, Pierre Delauney, Rev. Timothy Crossbeau, Thomas P Jamieson and Arthur Pettycommon, who also happen to be one person. (Plus several others who only appeared on the radio so far owing to my lack of make-up and costumes department.)

[Supermegsmg]

I just have to ask - why the Russian accent? I know you're British and I heard you speak British. This doesn't really sound like you :)

[usenetposts]

@Supermegsmg Uncle Davey is British, but Viktor Huliganov is Russian. Hope this helps.

[raphaelkick]

Hi i like to listen to music while I m studying do you think that music disturbs me while i learn or decreases my productivity rate?

[usenetposts]

@raphaelkick I'm sure it does. Don't kid yourself about music, if you listen to music properly the way it should be listened to, you cannot also study even subconsciously at the same time because that music is taking a share of either the conscience or the subconscious mind or both and you cannot control it. If you say that the music doesn't affect you, then I'm sorry but that is just an abuse of music by playing it without giving it any attention, and damaging your brain's musicality also.

[raphtubeful]

can i have more than 1 list at the same time ? if yes they have to be in the same date? if doesn't need to be the same date can i do for example Jan 1 i made a list Jan 2 i made a second list and Jan 15 i will revise the first list Jan 16 the second list is that OK?

[usenetposts]

@raphtubeful If you mean more than one set of 25, then sure. You take a ten minute break after each 25 and keep oing for as long as you like as long as you keep taking the breaks. you just don't go back over them again for two weeks. You date them to make sure of only processing them to the next level once you have not seen them for two weeks. The top left hand of each page is the next part of one big list. In my way of describing it vthe headlist is all one big list. the next page is #26-50 etc

[raphtubeful]

Hi how often should i review the 25 words gold list once a day once every 2 weeks or what?

[usenetposts]

@raphtubeful You don't look at it for two weeks. The object of the game is to find out what your mind managed to retain for over two weeks without you even trying to memorise, and then to do it again for the remaining words, until they are all in the long-term memory. Looking at the lists while the 2 week period is passing will defeat the object of the game.

[Infamouspirate10]

I think this method has serious potential, and I've gotten comfortable with basic Russian because of your videos but you ramble a little, and it's really hard to follow your points because of it. I'm distracted by the time you finish a thought!

[usenetposts]

@Infamouspirate10 Then it's a question of waiting for the books. As you can see I don't speak from notes so I go off on all kinds of tangents, but that's part of doing it my way. See how you get on with my writing in the book that channel syzygycc has made. There's something about this method in there.

[RafIAm]

How often should I be reading/reviewing the words in between distillations? or at all? What I mean is that in the 2 weeks in between writing the headlist and the first distillation, should I be reviewing the words daily?

[usenetposts]

@RafIAm You shouldn't do it at all. Or just once prior to re-writing, in order to plan what you will cast off or combine. But you must have not looked at the list on that page for at least two weeks prior to doing it. It's this reviewing over and over which most people do which switches on the short term instead of the long term memory. That way, you will spend ages more of engagement on learning the language than you need to. It's not about forcing it in, it's about seeing what's learnt itself.

[RafIAm]

@usenetposts I just finished my first headlist. I have written 100 words in 25 word blocks, at 25 mins at a time with 10 mins or so in between. In 2 weeks I will do distillation number one on these 100 words. We'll see how this goes.

[RafIAm]

@usenetposts Is it very important to work in straight 20 min blocks? I have begun making my headlists at work of 25 word blocks. But often I get interupted and only get the chance to write down 5-10 word or phrases at a time and get back to the rest of the headlist later. Is this bad?

[usenetposts]

@RafIAm It's far from ideal to work with interruptions, as I often remind my wife and kids. If need be it is better to take your gold list out for a walk, do one set of 25 on one park bench then walk about 10-15 minutes and do the next. You can 'walk' your goldlist around your town and get some me time into the bargain.

[RafIAm]

@usenetposts When i was looking over the Goldlist.xls file you provided, I noticed that between your first headlist and your first distillation, the only word that was missing was starling. It seems that what you did was just compress the words from the first headlist to comprise the 1st distillation. But all the words from the headlist one were found on dist 1. Is this the correct way, or should I actually be deleting words from the headlists/distillations as I go?

[usenetposts]

@RafIAm Deletion is preferable, but if you cannot delete, combine as it's a good way to create long-term memories. You might get both words for deletion on the next run. The act of combining seems not to switch on the short-term memory. However, be fairly bold in deleting.

[roedgroedudenfloede]

Apologies for the multiple posts - I didn't think my comment had posted correctly!

[roedgroedudenfloede]

If you're interested, I've just YT-blogged about my experiences using the Gold List method on my channel. Check it out for more details - if I can work out how to do a video response, I will do! (BTW I used to go by the YT name of "c0ley", but have now set up a separate YT account devoted to language learning)

[roedgroedudenfloede]

If you're interested, I've just YT-blogged about my experiences using the Gold List method on my channel. Check it out for more details - if I can work out how to do a video response, I will do! (BTW I used to go by the YT name of "c0ley", but have now set up a separate YT account devoted to language learning)

[eastwilliams]

What are your thought on studing two languages at the same time using the goldlist method?

[usenetposts]

@eastwilliams It's ideal for that. For example, you can use a language you know well as the language on the right hand side when learning the language on the left, and it serves as a valuable reminder as well as checklist for completenes of vocab in the language you know better. But as for doing two different languages from English at once, I don't advise doing it if they are languages from the same family. Also the time you give to the second one is time away from the first.

[eastwilliams]

I have two other questions: when you have written out your third distillation (the list on the bottom left hand of the page) do you let those words sit there until you make another head list and include those words in that head list?

Second question, how long does it take to get to an intermediate level i.e. 10,000 words? I know that everyone's learning speed is different but how long did it take you to reach such a level, on average? Thanks.

[usenetposts]

@eastwilliams I have three book types, as it were, bronze, silver and gold. When I have done the third distillation and two weeks or more have elapsed, then the silver book is the place for the fourth distillation, and it goes in the place where the head list went in the bronze book, ie top left, and is also grouped in 25. those 25 were originally over the first 4 or so pages of the bronze book. The silver book can be three or four times thinner than the bronze book.

[surrected4526]

Je vous remercie pour votre "Gold List Method"!

[usenetposts]

@surrected4526 Je vous en prie, et je vous souhaite beaucoup de succes avec ca. Donnez nous savoir si la methode aura vous aide.

[eastwilliams]

So what you are do is making a head list of about how ever long you want it to be and taking chunks of 25 at a time and then taking those twenty-five words and putting more than one word on a line so as to be using less lines?

So you will always be working with the chunk of 25 only slowly putting them on less and less lines?

[usenetposts]

@eastwilliams Within the double page of a notebook, the top left is the head list from a source however long you like, but added and worked in chunks of 25. The later lists also continue through the book keeping their respective positions going clockwise around the double page, ie top right, bottom right and bottom left, each time being fewer. Then you need a new book, and you will distill so that the hardest words off several pages of the first book become the top left 25 in the second book.

[eastwilliams]

@usenetposts I am still trying to understand. Are the lists in the second third and fourth positions filled with words you dont know well or the words you do know well?

[usenetposts]

@eastwilliams They are the words you can't remember well. The words you know, you leave out of further distillations. The "gold" you are panning for is the set of words your memory finds hard to remember. It will be different to any other person, even if they start with the same source words. It is like a game with your own unconscious mind.

[usenetposts]

@usenetposts @eastwilliams to answer the second question, I believe that to take 10,000 words and work them through the entire system takes 10,000/25 hours, namely 400 hours. If you spend 2 hours a day, then you will learn this vocabulary in 200 days. That takes a lot of motivation, and even I do on average only about 3 -5 hours a week on it, which is still enough to make good progress.

[gatsu6969]

can't seem to download the excel file

[usenetposts]

@gatsu6969

The file is now available on the Huliganov Google Group. The link is on Huliganov dot TV. Sorry about the circuitous route, but the link gets blocked here. I'll see if I can add it to the description too.

[martialartsdude]

With my gold list I have come across some verbs so far that appear to have 8 meanings given for them eg идти - to go to come to leave to move to be in progress to fall to go by to pass. Would it be best to leave these all on one line as I have done in the past or separate them out onto different lines? I'm finding it a little difficult to remember every action when there is 8 of them for one verb O-o

[usenetposts]

@martialartsdude In fact "idti' means nothing more than "to go (on foot)".

These other meanings are only achieved by adding prefixes, which is something I'm going to cover in the near future, and they make new vocabulary items just as "suspending" is different from "pending" or "impending" in English.

[martialartsdude]

@usenetposts ah thanks very much I had in the back of my mind that it may be something like that but I just needed the clarification :) Thanks again!! :)

[Owner46]

How long do you recommend our breaks be?

[usenetposts]

@Owner46 At least 10 minutes. Usually if you go to the bathroom and make a cup of coffee, read a chapter of a book, or just have a little nap in the sun or do some housework. Leave the system open if you can do so without someone coming along and writing their shopping list it in, or drawing pictures of Winnie the Pooh, to remind you to go back to it after the break.

[usenetposts]

@showbread135 OK. I agree. I just don't really know how I'm going to do that.

[usenetposts]

No, any Polish word will be pronounced exactly as it is written, as long as you know the basis of the Polish writing system. You should use the current "Teach Yourself Polish" course with the CDs. It's very good in my opinion.

[Verabadthings]

I'm very interested in this method but I have big problems to understand your English! :(

[martialartsdude]

This method has been working really well I have been using it for around 11 months now and I am still having fun! However I was wondering do you transliterate text? or do you just translate the 'gist' of the sentence. I have little trouble in understanding the words I hear and read, however trying to understand the sentence with which they are used in I still find really difficult at times.

[usenetposts]

Which language are you learning, remind me?

[martialartsdude]

oh sorry I forgot to mention; I am using it for Russian.

[usenetposts]

I wouldn't transliterate it, but I would give in the Headlist a literal translation and also a dynamic equivalent translation, if warranted by dissimilarity of syntax.

[martialartsdude]

@usenetposts ok great thanks very much :)

[threedaygracer]

How many languages do you know?

[renezouksen]

I was curious about the Goldlist method. Can you write down more then one headlist a day? after a certain amount of time? then I can review the headlist two weeks later? Also can you write headlists everyday? i.e write 3 headlists one day then write 2 headlists the following day, then go over them two weeks later?

Also thank you very much for the videos and I really appreciate it!

[usenetposts]

The headlist is the whole of the list on the top left hand side of the book or several books in the language, which is why it is sequentially numbered starting from where it last left off. We do 25 words in the head list at a time, so as not to make the unconscious memory tired and ineffective. You won't notice that happening - if you do it means you're not using long-term but short-term memory - so therefore we need a reminder to stop, have a ten minute break, and come back. We can then do ...

[usenetposts]

... another 25 words in the headlist. You then need another break doing something else for 10 minutes or more again, and then come back to do it again. And you can do that for as long as it retains its interest for you on the given day, as long as you do not do more than 25 before having that break. I tend not to do more than 300-400 words per week, but if I were in a hurry and had a lot of time for learning, I would be able to do double or treble that and not lose efficiency if keeping breaks.

[renezouksen]

ohh ok so the headlist is a list of ALL the words and or phrases we wish to store in the long term memory and we only read 25 at a time then we can take a break for 10 minutes or so then read more, awesome thank you. But can we do more the day afterwards lets say I did a list today of 100 words or so could I do 100 words tommarow as well and check them each two weeks after the day I had written them? Forgive me if i'm confusing I'm not sure how to word it properly.

[usenetposts]

It isn't about reading them, it;s about writing them out by hand. And however many you do, as long as you leave breaks, and work at writing them out with interest and engagement, but without expecting to learn them or trying especially to learn them there and then, then you should leave them for two weeks and when you come back you will know some of the words. These you do not write out again, you write out again the ones you didn't remember. And you write that on the top right side opposite.

[renezouksen]

Ahhh ok. Thank you very much.

[usenetposts]

You're very welcome. I expect others have the same questions but have been too reluctant to ask them publicly, and it is helpful that you did. Best of luck with the system and let us know how you got on.

[longlat39]

When I enter words into a new headlist, I sometimes play around composing sentences using them in a separate notebook. Do you think this reinforces the memorization, or is it just redundancy?

[usenetposts]

I would say it is redundant, John, although condensing several headlist words into a sentence and writing that instead on a distillation is a good technique which aids the goldlist process. In the same way I've given up doing the exercises you get in most self-teaching books, although again they can be a useful check once you have finished your goldlist and distilled it tghrough the first exercise book, to make sure you really can do the exercises.

[longlat39]

I guess my rationale in doing this is that lacking someone to converse with on a frequent basis, I'm trying to use these words as often as possible in written or verbal form.

[usenetposts]

John, ask yourself whether you simply are feeling that you need to feel fluent in order to feel you are getting there. If so, then remember the whole active passive thing I talked about on the Cheryl goldlist video. You may well not get all that many chances in ordinary life to get so fluent that the words are on the tip of your tongue (activated) but an interesting thing is to gain a big passive knowledge and then go to a place where you are immersed and watch it activate in only 3 days.

[usenetposts]

In other words, we should be aware of unrealistic expectations when it comes to being able to find the right word in speaking. If you are able to understand words clearly while reading them, then you'll also be able to remember them the other way round when you activate. No linguist walks around activated in a bunch of languages at once - the interference would be massive. So it's best to regard some of the subjective measures of success (like ease of finding words when talking) as fallacious.

[longlat39]

@usenetposts Yes, this all makes sense to me. Hopefully I'll be activating the language later on this year. Thanks again for imparting the language and your passion for it

[opencurtin]

This method is for people with photogenic memories.

[usenetposts]

It isn't. It can be used even if your memory cracks camera lenses.

[march1291]

lol

[usenetposts]

At long last someone got that. Thank you.

[c0ley]

I've been using the GL method for a couple of months now, and I would definitely recommend it. Two bits of advise: If you plan to become "fluent", only work in blocks of 2,500 words at once - it becomes very difficult to keep track of all your distillations otherwise. Once you've distilled these words, start another block.

Secondly, don't do more than 2 headlists per day. This may sound a low amount, but it means that you don't do as much distilling later on, keeping you fresh and interested.

[usenetposts]

Many thanks for this valuable feedback!

[c0ley]

Having followed the method for a few more months, I'd like to adjust my previous comment slightly.

Work in blocks of (max) 1,500 lines first (2,500 is too many) and distil them down before moving onto the next block. The reason is that you want to keep the distillation process "exciting" - that is, it should not be a "chore". Having too many lines to distil can be a bit intimidating.

I will soon blog about how I've adapted the GL to suit my own needs. I'll send you the link when I'm done.

[usenetposts]

I find your take very interesting, and I may well try it myself. What I generally do is a staggered approach, where I do a block of, say 1000, go back and distil one level, then add another 1000 to the headlist, then go back and do second distillation on the first headlist block, first distillation on the second block and add a third block, etc.

Looking forward to your blog link. Clearly you are getting some good from the system, and I look forward to teh feedback which might improve it too.

[c0ley]

That's interesting.

The approach I'm currently taking (which involves a wordlist of approx 2000 distinct words) is to do a block of 1000 words, then distill them down until I'm onto the second book, then move onto the second block of 1000. In other words, I plan to know the first 1000 "inside out" before I move onto the second batch which, I think, will be more productive than "sort of knowing" 2000 words if I did the whole thing at once.

[usenetposts]

At the outset that may well be right, but soon you get past 2000, and after that it's not so clear cut which are the more common and less common words. And not all that many materials have graded vocab beyond 2000 words.

[usenetposts]

As you can probably tell from me coming back to reply to your latest again this morning, I've been giving your input quite a bit of thought. On the one hand, there is the impetus problem if you have 1000 words, by the time you have got these into the second book the top left hand corner of the second book doesn't have much more than 250 words - not much to do in two weeks, and you still need to keep the two week gap going for the system to work properly. However...

[usenetposts]

... your idea might be just the ticket for someone learning Chinese/Japanese or other hard to write language where they could do an initial 2000 words in just pinyin or romaji, and then do a kanji or kana course after being immersed in the language using a more familiar orthography. In my very fragmentary study of Japanese I'm tempted to shift towards your idea and give it a spin. I have a half distilled romaji list of 2300, maybe I should finish distilling it off to nothing then do kanji/kana.

[c0ley]

As you have noted, this is a "long term" method - so why not spread the method out as well rather than to cram it into one big exercise?

I suppose a good metaphor is watching a movie. Let's say there are 2 films you really want to see. If you watch both one after another, halfway during the second film you'll probably get bored (even though you want to continue to the end). Why not watch one film one day and the other film a few weeks later? It's the same with these "blocks" of words.

[c0ley]

That's true - assuming you remember 30% of the lines during each distillation process, I guess you will end up with 1000 * 0.7 = 700 * 0.7 = 490 * 0.7 = 343 * 0.7 = 240 words (approx) in the second book.

Yes, there will be a time lag between creating a headlist of 25 words in the second book if you have only been doing (say) one or two distillations per day but, by the time you do get to the second book, you will know these words reasonably well (cont...)

[c0ley]

(time lag = the first 5 words in the headlist of the second book come from, e.g. the third distillation in the first book dated 1st Jan, the second 5 words come from, e.g. the 5th Jan and so on).

What I would suggest is that, by keeping your initial target down to a relatively small list of words (say 1000), the "excitement" of learning these new words will far outweigh the monotony/inability to distill when you try to do 2000 at once (cont...again...)

[whipback3]

And c0ley's method could greatly reduce the chance of repeating words.

[usenetposts]

Well, I'll try c0ley's approach for my Japanese for the vocab in the Berlitz book. That was 2000 words anyway, and I'll distill that right off before going onto the kanji book. It makes sense from a number of reasons to use that adaptation when dealing with languages with hard writing systems. You can distil off one chunk of learning using latin letters to get the language per se, and then go from scratch with the kana and kanji after.

[c0ley]

I've actually tried my suggested approach in practice since I posted my earlier comments. So far, I have found it *much* easier and less frustrating to work with a much smaller set of words. I wrote 1,000 out over a period of just under 2 weeks (roughly 3-4 headlists a day) which means only having to do 3-4 distillations a night 2 weeks later. Obviously, this means it'll take me longer to get to a "target" of 2,500 words, but the workload is much more spread out over 2.5 "blocks".

[Thestralsxxx]

When you write down a verb, every form of the verb should be written too? And, the 70% of the words I don't remember are to be written down again on a new list to be reviewed in two weeks' time? And so on? This is how I understood it.

[usenetposts]

Every irregular form should be written down as a line item on the first list. You can compact it up on distillation. Every form of the verb you have chosen to be the illustration of a regular paradigm should be included, but verbs which are predictable by following one of the regular verbs can be simply classed as like the other verb you already wrote in full.

[davidcurtin1]

Must you read over the first 25 words continuously every day for 2 weeks until you knoew them or do you add 25 new words every day and continuously review all the words aftr that how long should you review all the words for about i hour just reading them out loud, i'm sory but i'm new to language learning and am a bit off the pace.

[usenetposts]

The trick is not to review them everyday, but to let your forgetting process work, and then put it to use to discover the words you won't forget. There are always some that you learn long-term after only one presentation. It is precisely NOT reviewing them afterwards, for two weeks, that allows this system to work. This system is the opposite of cramming, and halves the time engaged in learning any language in total, or better.

[jenni560]

I would like to correct you on your terminology, you say subconscious which is a technical word specifically associated with Freud and psychdynamic theory (which I hate btw as it is basically a relgion) You would be better to describe it as an unconscious process. The two are very different but unfortunaltey seen as synonymous. Down with the psychodynamic psychologists!!

[usenetposts]

OK, point taken. I'll say "unconscious" in the book. Thanks.

[Tzukume]

How well does this work? It looks promising! I think I'll try it out. I'm worried I might not remember 30% after 14 days but I'll try. From what I understand what you are saying is that by the time you get to the gold list you will know all the words. Interesting. I'm a very ambitious language learner. :)

[charlessmyth]

Gejigeji mayuge.

[usenetposts]

Well, I'm perfectly happy with them. If I were not I would pluck them out like you do. I think you could actually let yours grow naturally, as it might reduce the slightly porcine aura that comes across on one or two of your more popular pieces...

[charlessmyth]

Beyond an occasional trim, to account for the stragglers, nature plucks them for me. So that's one less labour to contend with :-) Which of the 'more popular' pieces were you referring to, for interest's sake.

[VanguardDragon]

Hey just so you know, your link to the spreadsheet is broken.

[usenetposts]

I know. I can't do anything about it, as the provider dumped the control panel after I did it, and hasn't answered my queries as to how to control my stuff there now.

[VanguardDragon]

Ah no probs. Have you considered a free file hosting site? Mediafire is pretty good i believe

[usenetposts]

I went on fileden, I don't know what you think of that. It always wants to upgrade me to a paying account. I'm thinkning it might be cheaper in the long run just to buy my own webserver?

[VanguardDragon]

Web servers can be really cheap, you don't need amazing hardware to run one, and there are a lot of economic power-saving components on the market aimed at servers that will be operational for long periods of time. If all you're going to be hosting is a few small files like that excel sheet, then you don't really even need that big of a hard drive.

[DAMURDOC]

Я так абажаю тебя

[usenetposts]

You're very kind.

[DeathPredator]

I, as a student of languages, greatly appreciate the time and effort you have voluntarily put forth, thank you very much for all of your posts and instruction.

[GuardMarcellus]

Thank you so much for explaining this method.

I find it highly admirable, that you take so much time, to help people learn. Both in regards to teaching this method, and the Russian lessons you have put up.

I shall be buying some writing books Monday.

[openuniverse2003]

Goldlist.xls is not available, 404 Error.  Please correct. Thanks.

[mehashef]

Few questions please.

1. Is it effective to learn a couple(or more) languages simultaneously?

2. Would I be using the same method to learn? or do I need to follow a different procedure?

3. If you know, what keeps our brains from speaking out more then one language at a time? (instead of just using any random words in random languages that comes up our minds)

4. Can this mechanism be utilized for learning more the one language at a time? or is it also inaccessible to conscious practice?

[usenetposts]

1. if they are not related, yes 2. the same, although some languages such as Japanese need a second run for the kana if you learn first with romaji. 3. there are synaptic switches but I can't tell you more than that. It depends on how you lay the language down and it can possibly vary between people who have taken varying approaches to learning.

4. I learn more than one language, and as long as they are not related I do not find any issues with it.

[mehashef]

@usenetposts many thanks. :)

[zoffo]

Thanks for posting this information here. I am interested in different types of approach to language learning. The link to the excel spreadsheet is not working and leads to a 404. Could you put up a new link. Many thanks again.

[usenetposts]

I'll try to find the file and then put it on facebook.

[windnoob]

Your really smart! :D and i like that! finaly smart people :P

[southerndeep]

You mentioned about adding grammatical structures to the lists but have not commented further on it.

This is of great interest to me as I am studying korean in which the basic verbs are often different/irregular when conjugated in speech. I would like to add the basic verbs and two type of conjugations to each line. What do you think about that?

Also, is having lists in alphabetical order a problem? I'm taking mine from a high freq vocab dictionary.

Finally: Thank you for this great gift !!!!!

[usenetposts]

I don't think there is a problem with the alphabetical thing. I believe in making all irregular verb forms part of the headlist as separate line items. They should be distilled maybe by combination or abbreviation in the further rewrites.

[southerndeep]

thanks...i've been working with the lists and its going well :)

[SaileAway]

I would like to point out that there is a possible error on number 16 of your Goldlist website. It says that for the third distillation you should write the 9 'best' remembered words from the second distillation. I am quite sure you meant 'least'.

Might I suggest that you rewrite this excellent tutorial in a fashion that is slightly easier to unravel. I only say this because I beleive it is such a good method, and I think that there are some people who might not be able to comprehend it clearly.

[usenetposts]

Good idea. I will in fact write a book once I get a little more leisure time.

[WuuFred]

I understand that your Goldlist method is excellent for studying grammar and vocabulary lists, but how about concepts and processes? For example, how photosynthesis occurs in plants, or the process of food traveling down your digestive system? Is it possible for one to remember these types of information using the Goldlist method? Thank you very much in advance for your response.

[SaileAway]

I dont think so.

Words are conceptual blocks, and this method is for learning vast amounts of arbitrary data. Not concepts.

I suppose you could treat a concept like a word in this situation, and discard the ones you say you already know, but this would be useful only for very large amounts of data, like anatomical studies....perhaps you could use this method for memorizing all the the bones in the human body for instance.

[usenetposts]

Sorry I am rather behind with this, as I have been away, and I hope this reply is still useful. I think that what needs memorising to the long term memory, but does not contain an "a-ha" effect, an element of understanding, the method is good.

Now, that means that in the main you should aim to understand these things using diagrams and chemical equations, but it is also true that there are names that ned remembering and equations that need remembering. If you have a problem remembering (tbc)

[usenetposts]

(continued) for example, how to spell chorophyll, or the equation 6H2O+6C02=>C6H12O6+6O2, then you can enter these as lines in the system and process them into the long term memory. The more you have been sure to long-term memorise, the less you need to cram for the exam, so that you can concentrate the exam cramming on material which you left outside the system or is still unprocessed in the system at exam time, plus your diagrammatic notes. Redrawing diagrams after 2 weeks from memory s/work.

[ieuanWM]

omg mad you'r holeruos!! XD

[Yardana28]

Only thing I don't understand, are you saying through this method that you can only learn 25 words a month?

[usenetposts]

No, just 25 on a page. You can do as many pages as you like, but you shouldn't go back in less than 2 weeks. You might process in the course of a month 3,000 words, which is the equivalent of "learning" on average about 1000 words, but that would be going some.

[lordmoggy]

i will see how i go ...and then ask questions along the way.

[bdumes]

I notice on your example, you list the verb conjugations seperately as individual words. Do you recommend learning verb conjugations this way? My thinking is that as long as you already know the basic conjugation patterns, you could simply indicate which pattern it follows, and only detail them as individual words if they are highly irregular. I myself have suffered from irregularity, and so I have pity for those verbs which are irregular on a regular basis. Thanks again.

[usenetposts]

A couple of examples of each regular conjugation pronoun by pronoun in the headlist, and then condense it over the distillations.

For irregular verbs I would give them all in full, the key persons for the past tenses and subjunctives if we are talking about latin languages, the three parts if we are talking about Germanic languages are obviously third person singular in the present, simple past and past participle. In Russian any irregular imperatives and past tenses in, and aspectival pairs.

[usenetposts]

My system might help remember dates too, but I haven't tried that yet. I don't study enough history.

[Mercuryvirgo1982]

Thank you!

[usenetposts]

Pleasure!

[Mercuryvirgo1982]

Where can I find the excel file?

[usenetposts]

The link is in the description panel, to the right of the video, if you click on the word "more".

[Balazak]

Sorry I'm 10 months behind but did you remove it?

I get a 404 error when I click the link :(

[usenetposts]

It should be there...

[Balazak]

Nope, just tried a few more times. I keep getting the same thing :(

[usenetposts]

Hmmn. I'll have to think how to do this.

[matthewJamesKendell]

Your Gold List system may be a useful adjunct to the memorisation of languages but it would be useless in the memorisation of other subjects like the sciences. It is far too simple.

[usenetposts]

It is useful for those parts of say, a medical syllabus, that do not depend on an "aha effect". It is possible to combine goldlisting with mind-mapping to get a two-pronged attack on the memory for more conceptually complex learning tagets.

[usenetposts]

On the other hand, what I didn't like about the Loci system you presented is that without certain additional checks after two weeks as in the goldlist system, it is a classic cramming to short-term memory method, and yet you offered it as a l/t memory method. If you don't believe me, then test it yourself and see if these things really still work after two weeks as well as you think. If not, then you need to add in elements from what I've described.

[kirina1309]

Thanks for sharing this method with us!!! Im definitelly going to try it...but I want to learn Turkish and Arabic so we will see how it works with diffrent lg families :)

[usenetposts]

I think it will be good for Turkish. It may need some adaptation for Arabic, at least you will need to write the Arabic words with full vowel markings in there, and maybe at some stage of distillation take the vowel markers off, and then at a later distillation remove the whole word. I say this theoretically, as I have not used this system for a Semitic language yet. I will try it with Hebrew some time.

[kirina1309]

yep u r right about vowels in Arabic...thanks for good idea, i will take the vowel markers off...although at my level I'm still using them but I cant use them all my life :) thanks again

[usenetposts]

You have to consider that kids growing up, they don't usually see the vowel markers, and yet somehow they learn them. I would include vowel markers and distil them off into a second list without the vowel markers, and then distil that list off to nothing. That's how I would maybe approach the Semitic language vowel problem. Glad if I've given you a good idea.

[snapperface]

I am curious if you have tried the method with Hebrew yet and if so ,what,if any ,adaptations did you make. Did you do anything special about verb conjugations?

Thank you for sharing this method.

You have truly helped me in my language learning.

[usenetposts]

Not yet, but it is my intention to do so. I must finish Czech, Japanese and Turkish, and then I will do it. Many thanks for your kind words.

[uptodat]

Thanks to Praguevlogg 4 asking. I didn't quite get it until this & the xls. I too will get some more notebooks and try to be neater. Thanks Prof.

[usenetposts]

Pleasure! Let me know how you get on with it. I find that doing it neatly, with an elegant notebook and pen makes the experience more pleasureable, and according to NLP tenets, that should open up the long-term memory more. I think doing it in a comfortable working position with a good coffee/tea or whatever all helps. I wouldn't do it to music though, as music always detracts some of the attention away from the job in hand.

[PragueVlogg]

Thank you very much for this! I am happy that the following are cleared up for me now 1. The difference between a headlist and a distillation, and 2. How to continue towards a Gold List after I have reduced my first headlists to 9.

I'll let you know how I progress in my study of Russian. Now I'm off to go get a second notebook!

PV.

[usenetposts]

Happy learning!