Another group that deserve a ban are the blizzard test department or the management that give them no time to do their job properly. Exploits should be a freak occurrence not a regular feature.
A point proving Blizzard's Action on the Overated Perma-ban was the corrent move, is that, Changing the .mpq files is against the End Use License Agreement, so that is a complete violation of the Terms Agreement that each player sign/checks every time they install/get a new patch, even though most people sign that not knowing what their signing xD But yes, that is a very appropraite ban.
But why would those top end guilds farm LFR ilvl 384 gear? Lore, you always say that the top end guilds' members are undergeared when they face the newest content, but their skill makes up for it. Heroic level Firelands (which i guess they probably had) is better than LFR dragon soul raid, and you can't get the ilvl 397 valor items by doing this. Why would they cheat to get poorer gear, when they have the skill to get the best gear, skipping LFR and normal difficulty?
There was also a glitch/exploit from H LK done on my server, as well as numerous servers prior by a guild called Combo Breaker. As far as I have heard they'd server xferred numerous times and stolen Realm firsts from guilds on those servers until they got to mine, after they got the kill they promptly got bans to their accounts.
Lore, I agree with you for the most part. I definitely support the guilds' decisions to make use of the exploit, because just as you've pointed out, there was a very real possibility that Blizzard would look the other way, but at the same time, I really have to admire the guilds that refrained from using it. I suppose this is just a bittersweet lesson for Blizzard and all of the guilds who participated in the exploit (Not to mention, everyone watching).
@GeekMaster6000 Umm Lore didn't support the guilds decision to use the exploit, he simply understood and sympathized with it. It would be very odd, and I would look at Lore in under a VERY different light if he SUPPORTED using exploits as a means of the endgame arms race.
@GeekMaster6000 You should take your own advice, "l2read". The portion of YOUR statement that i was commenting on was this one " I definitely support the guilds' decisions to make use of the exploit" That has nothing to do with Lore's statement at all man. and also relax, stop whipping out the nerd terms when some one simply comments on a statement, it makes you look bad man. "l2read" and "l2p" noob, nub, newb. All that is extremely stupid, just refrain from em man. Peace
@xoawolf I never claimed that Lore supported their decisions. I said that I support their decision because of the underlying information that Lore discussed in the video. Again, learn to read.
@GeekMaster6000 "Lore, I agree with you for the most part. I definitely support the guilds' decisions to make use of the exploit" This says otherwise, you keep saying l2read but you don't even know how to write, or in the very least know what your writing. You statement right there suggests that you agree with using the exploit as you alone said it. It also suggests that you got the incentive to agree because of it. So once again take your own advice.
@xoawolf I honestly can't tell if you're trolling me or just very, very stupid.
Lore was in disagreement with what the top guilds did. Any stupid fuck could tell you that. I said that I agree with MOST (not ALL -- wrap that around your tiny head) of the information he passed on to his viewers through the video. This is where "for the most part" comes in. I supported the guilds' decisions, so it wouldn't make sense for me NOT to have said "for the most part"; He was in disagreement.
@GeekMaster6000 Ok so let me get this straight you BASICALLY just said that you support the guilds decision to use the exploits, and though you said "for the most part" how is ANYONE supose to know that THAT is what you meant? because you kinda jumped down my throat on the first reply... soo my previous post is stating the same thing that you just posted right now, meaning your disagreeing with me even though we stated the EXACT same thing... ya wrap your tiny brain around that
@xoawolf I have enough faith in the general population to assume that they're not retarded. Maybe next time I write a comment, I'll be sure to spell everything out so people like you don't get confused.
@GeekMaster6000 Ambiguity has nothing to do with knowledge unless the information being stated is general knowledge which it ISN'T because of the fact that its a OPINION
Lore I want to know your opinion on the hardmodes. 1/8 HC atm, and trying to do Zon/Yor, without any tank 4 pieces or even more then one healer on 2 pieces due to pure luck. They are a brick wall, using all CDs and burning mana, you still can't out heal it without the buffs from gear. Is that idiotic from Blizzard or are you meant to farm normals even though you are skillled enough for heroic modes...
@Realistic82 It's not on that severity. If your job tells you, make this presentation, and you will get your salary. And someone offers you help. You're gonna take it as it effects money. Paragons kills get them money, gets them sponsors. Pays for their lives. If Blizzard don't even test that you can trade items to people locked then ban. Thats slack on their behalf. Exploits are exploits, but Blizzard needs to stop throwing Ban Hammer and actually test these basic things
wts my World Of Warcraft account. It has 3 85 toons. The bnet account has 2 copies of Cata and 1 copy of wrath of the lich king. also will come with Starcraft 2 .PST asking 150 usd
Paragon just laughs for this, Im sure they all have double accounts and farmed these LFR dungeons with ALTs just in case people are allowed to get away with it. Kinda makes sense.
About time Blizz took the hard line on nothing more than cheating end of the day exploit is just a polite way of saying im a cheating mofo. Also Blizz need sto crack down on dirty gold farmers and peeps who buy gold prices in ah on my realm are retarded to say the least but thumbs up to Blizz for taking a serious aproach to these Cheaters.
I think Blizzard always go overboard on these bans for people exploiting bugs. All that should happen is the benefits the player got for doing the bug should be undone and then Blizzard should just get that bug fixed asap appose to players being banned for Blizzard not getting all the bugs sorted in the ptr.
@Silmarieni Yes, you got robbed because you couldn't lock your door.
Yes, you got robbed because you never lock the door when people say that you forgot to lock it (and hardly locks it ever)
This is a good analogy to that. Should the robbers go free because you didn't lock the door and they still did something against the rules (robbing, in game it was exploiting)?
You can't do anything you want, even if something can be done, it doesn't mean that it is allowed and you are not responsible.
Pfft all the dick heads saying he's a blizzard fanboy can go get fucked, you really think people who cheated their way to gear should get away with it? And to think the WoW community are always complaining about "how easy it is to get gear nowdays" seriously get out. /end rant.
It sort of depends how bad the exploit is. If it's an exploit that gives you a MAJOR advantage, probably an 8-day ban is appropriate. However, if it's something small that gives you a little bit of an edge but not a huge one, removing achieves/gear and a 3-day ban seems fine.
This is why 10 man kills being the same level as 25 is bad. Paragon and other top guilds are supposed to be out of the race but instead they pulled together the remains of their guild that didn't get banned and made it to #2 in the world...
We will not attempt to gather a 25-man raid for the week. The several accounts that did not partake in anything illicit are clear, so for this week we are forming a 10-man group with help from ex-members and friends. We will go back to doing 25-man as soon as we can, i.e. at the start of the next reset.
They are currently 5/8HC and world #3. enough said
Giving away my EU alonsus realm account due to school commitments. I have 4 80+ 85 Warrior - Raving 85 Priest - Imababe 83 Shaman - Jaguare 81 Mage - Crisiss 64 Paladin - Cliffybirchy - Stormscale 60 Lock - Youfkingwhat - Storm scale 62 Rogue - Wankster Account name - Cliffybirchy@hotmail.co.uk Password send me a message on youtube if you want the password
It's an embarrassment that a top end guild would stoop to this level in order to be competitive. My gear might be at their level but I earn mine without having to exploiting the system. Blizz should crack down on these types of players and drop some permabans. Re-roll son.
I would like to have seen a slightly longer ban just because this wasn't a one time thing, it should be a message to the whole culture of exploiting to get world firsts. A week is good, but I would have liked to see a slightly longer punishment.
Also, don't forget that a lot of the raiders that do super high-end progression also have jobs, and, many of them have to take a considerable amount of time off from those jobs to be able to put in the necessary time. So, for those that took a week or more off from work for this progression got doubly screwed, as deserved.
I think Blizzard should have permanently ban them all to be honest. Cheating is pathetic, and I expected more from top guilds. At least some top end raiding guilds refused to do it. Hopefully one of them can get the world 1st rather than the ones that cheated.
if theres any small bug in the came like if you could solo gamon on resto shaman with 1 hit ppl would find it... no matter the cost... dunno why but they just do :DDD
Paragon should have known better too, they've experienced untested content before and very explicitly did not abuse a bug in order to progress (Sinestra - reporting it got it hotfixed in hours). In fact, this is exactly what happened with Ensidia a year or two ago with the Lich King.
@jmccau Yes in a PERFECT world, Blizzard would not make mistakes, and players wouldn't benefit from them. However, this is reality and mistakes exist and people find the "easy ways" to do things. It's human nature to find the easiest path to rewards. So my argument is as valid as any of yours that you can all come up with. This oversight by Blizzard is their own fault and in no way should have resulted in such a severe punishment. If anything just remove the gear that was traded instead of bans.
5 pieces isnt impossible to get so dont blame them in advance. within the first 24 hours after patch. many guilds finished 10m normal "guild run" + the lfr that is lots of loot if lucky. i queed lfr got 3 loots then +8 bosses if guild takes down all bosses there is yep more loot chances.
blizzard should be harsher i remember once i spammed trade saying fuck you trade report me if you want blizzard wont do shit and all i got was a 72 hour banned... i mean wtf thats just enough for me to calm down i mean shit i should of gotten more like with everyone else
@SurvivalMinecraft Yes I did watch the video, I still think it's Blizzards fault. They have paid testers and PTR for a reason. If the employees at Blizzard aren't clever enough to find these "holes" in the coding then they really should just say "well our fault fix it ASAP so no one else can do it". Instead of punishing players that were more clever than Blizzard employees. I mean they fixed the Sinestra spell exploit for DKs while servers were still live so why not do the same for this?
@LastKnight0727 That is seriously the most idiotic argument I have ever heard. Blizzard should NEVER even have to fix coding mistakes like this because in a perfect world players would understand that its not the way the game was supposed to be played. However, we unfortunately have people like you that come into the equation.
I think the biggest exploit people accept is the mass ress exploit used on H rag.
people say it took 500 attempts to down. Say the exploit only saves 5 mins. Thats 41hrs minimum saved there. You tellin me that since paragon was using, the rest wouldnt?
I hate that its so okey to "cheat" in wow and even tho I love method I still think the action towards cheating/exploiting should be this hard or maybe even harder. If you cheat in other sports theres a good chance you wont come back at all from that.
05:46 is the best part and right on the money. People saying that they exploit because they can is about as childish as you can get. I hope someone in the US gets the world first Deathwing, my respect for Paragon, despite being good players is completely lost. 20 druids I can handle, exploits I can't.
I think the most ridiculous action taken against a player for an "exploit" is the sad tale of Karatechop. Got hacked and eventually got all his items back with a "Martin's Shirt" included. The use effect made it kill everything. His casual raiding guild used it and then he got a permaban. They SENT him the item and he gets a permaban.
Leaving the instance to avoid rolling should absolutely be an exploit worthy of temporary bans and loss of gear. However, I do not believe using the two hour trading window should constitute the same response. Characters that roll become ineligible for loot as intended. What they do with that loot should be their prerogative.
That said, I 100% agree with the need for consistency on Blizzard's part. Establish a policy now and stick to it. If that means an 8 day ban at least now it's in writing.
so they messed up and exploited a fight and now there bitching they cant do the raid that they were willing to skip ? loot or no i realy dont think they dererve the world first now tell me a perma ban THEN you may have somthing
I would have liked if blizzard was more involved and would have gone out with removing the items and a bluepost before this was going live and even if they couldn't fix it they could have warned people that if it's used they will get banned.
At the end of the day paragon, method et al are meant to be the top guilds and meant to show other players/guilds how it's done. By exploiting bugs like that they're setting a terrible example (especially to younger players) and i think Blizzard can totally justify an 8 day or greater ban!
In the world of competitive end-game mmo raiding, 1 week of progression can mean the difference between getting a world first or not. In-game and real-life I strongly feel the punishment should fit the crime. Exploiting a loot system to give yourself a leg up on the competition, then being punished by being put behind said competition is just. Only way this won't have as much impact on world-first or region-first Deathwing heroic kills is if the encounter is as overtuned as Ragnaros was.
It's going to be fairly easy to tell if a guild that exploited would have gotten World First if they hadn't exploited. Did they kill the final boss less than a week after the World First of a guild that had the one week head start? If yes, they would have gotten World First.
Paragon killed heroic Ragnaros a week before Method got the second kill. I'm actually interested to see if Paragon can still win despite the week penalty.
the only issue i have ultimately with the 8 day ban, is something lore talked about, in that so far for cata blizz has been sitting back and letting exploiters get away with most of the stuff, and just hot fixing the issue, and then all of a sudden its a bad thing to use an exploit.
Blizz has just been very inconsistent with this stuff this expac.
@iamwura1 The problem is the hubris of the top guilds, posting statements on their guild pages basically saying that they expect a slap on the wrist because blizz had become lenient in the first place
Also, the abuse was pretty systematic, completely rampant and after they got caught, they were unrepentant about it.
Blizz was forced to take action to save face. Now, blizz has to follow their own precedent moving forward.
the ensidia lich king thing, ensidia wrote a statement afterwards basically saying they knew the saronite bombs were bugging it but they weren't going to take saronite bombs out of their dps rotation
8 days almost works for the reasons stated, the only issue I see with this is the impact on the progression race, not just for the people who are banned, but the for the guilds that are now taking these heroic kills. If one of those guilds manages to get world first deathwing at some point, there will still be people making claims that its just because these other guilds were banned for a week, that they might very well not have got that kill first. I really hope that doesn't happen to be honest
@XxEricDarkxX well if another guild gets world first while Paragon is banned then it'll just make them realize how big of a mess up they made. That just by exploiting LFR. it cost them a world first and they should feel bad about "cheating."
Well it is actually Blizzard and the people who got banned fault in this, one the people who did it knew what they were doing so they have to take responsibility for what they did, and it is Blizzard's fault for letting it get to the point where people could feel that this was something they could do without punishment. And for the whole amount of banning, 8 days for a top raid guild is quite a lot, that is a week of progression, and in raiding that can make or break you in the race for first
Pargon used to be in the running for world first Heroic Madness of Deathwing but then they took an arrow to the knee... er exploited LFR loot and got a 8 day ban.
Lore another exploit that you, and some others have forgotten about was the exp. exploit in throne of tides instance, and that was a big issue for those that were actually shooting for world fist 85, i think the guy got banned for a bit, but its not like they made him a lvl 80 again after fixing that.
I feel like wht blizz did was fair, however the one where the BH boss was relesed wasn't there was nothing about "do not kill the boss" memo so peoplr thought it was ok to kill
16:15 I got banned for 72 hours when I looted boss after everybody left the raidgroup. Didn't know it was an exploit by then. And I didn't had any accomplices. So.. whops :D
I think one of the problems is that top guilds are always going to have a lesser punishment that an everybody type guild. They need to have a blanket system with severity and punishments that apply to everyone, regardless.
this is competitive end-game raiding we're talking about. boosting yourself to a 4set bonus like that is like taking dope in the olympics. if they bust you, you're not competing anymore for the entirity of the games. so you'll be waiting till the next 4 years (if your career even survives it). imo, the exploiters should be banned for the remainder of cata
@IsilionNELE the 8 days does what it was meant to because actually most of the guild that did the exploit didnt bother to do DS on normal so now when they come back they have to clear normal then start heroics which puts them behind by 2weeks and 2 weeks in this competition is basically out of the game
@IsilionNELE The End Game content will die extremly fast in that case. There are ton of top 10 guilds that uses this exploit, and you want them to wait until summer? It's dumb, and blizz understand that.
@IsilionNELE They've paid for the game, and they've paid for the service. This offers some leniency by default. Additionally, many players who were in with the exploiting raids were no doubt reluctant participants, perhaps even refused gear. Also, this is not the olympics, that's a retarded analogy.
They've broken the Terms of use of the service. If I paid for a basic television pack and found out a workaround where I could get more out of it than I was paying for, I'd probably be tried for Tort (breach of contract) or theft (using something I hadn't paid for). A little tricky with intellectual property, but yeah. It's not a stupid analogy when the average person already feels they're at a disadvantage and the officials let "x" off for "doping" and "x" wins sponsorships.
@IsilionNELE Yeah... this is a video game, not the Olympics. Despite what some people might think, it's not nearly that important.
Additionally, if they get banned for the remainder of Cataclysm, not only will they not be paying Blizz for that time, there's a good chance they'll cancel their accounts, which is less money for Blizz, after several quarters of heavy player loss.
@IsilionNELE Except the purpose of the game is not hardcore world first progression. It's something that just happens with like less than 2% of the guilds . In fact, Blizzard doesn't even recognize or tack the world firsts, third party web sites do it. What pisses me off is that people don't give a fuck about the real exploiters, botter, hackers, farmers, DDoSers, wintraders, gold sellers etc, that effect EVERYONES gameplay, but when paragon does something, the internet EXPLODES.
There's a difference between end boss exploitation, and pre end boss exploitation. An end boss has much more substance and awareness than any other boss in the raid, and is taken much more seriously than any other boss, which in my opinion, is why people got punished further for those exploits. The LFR loot exploit really is a whole different ball of wax to deal with.
Liked/Favorited....You hit the nail on the head with this video Lore. Now we just have to hope Blizzard sticks to its guns, and continues punishments that have an impact.
Another group that deserve a ban are the blizzard test department or the management that give them no time to do their job properly. Exploits should be a freak occurrence not a regular feature.
FrankDodd 1 month ago
Holy shit its super jew
Ownagefactory154 1 month ago 2
Why do people say arrow -TO- the knee, when in the game it's arrow -IN- the knee?
IceShockFire 1 month ago
Actually there were 3 day bans for Rhyolith exploit - a guild on my old server did it
enlilija 1 month ago
A point proving Blizzard's Action on the Overated Perma-ban was the corrent move, is that, Changing the .mpq files is against the End Use License Agreement, so that is a complete violation of the Terms Agreement that each player sign/checks every time they install/get a new patch, even though most people sign that not knowing what their signing xD But yes, that is a very appropraite ban.
ByeTrashx 2 months ago in playlist More videos from ZAMOfficial
But why would those top end guilds farm LFR ilvl 384 gear? Lore, you always say that the top end guilds' members are undergeared when they face the newest content, but their skill makes up for it. Heroic level Firelands (which i guess they probably had) is better than LFR dragon soul raid, and you can't get the ilvl 397 valor items by doing this. Why would they cheat to get poorer gear, when they have the skill to get the best gear, skipping LFR and normal difficulty?
asddsa76 2 months ago
Hold them all accountable!
albieandnikki 2 months ago
It was blizzard's fail to bring buggy content.
PachyPhazi 2 months ago
@PachyPhazi Are you retarded? Doesn't make any right to exploit anyways.
Smoermannen 2 months ago
@Smoermannen What gives you the right to insult me?
PachyPhazi 2 months ago
@PachyPhazi Your retardness gives the rights to me to insult you.
Smoermannen 2 months ago
I used to raid all day, then i took a carpal tunnel to the wrist
turbogaming7 2 months ago in playlist More videos from ZAMOfficial
Great vid, Lore! Blizz needs to watch every one of you PSTs and Weekly Marmots
Pathros11 2 months ago
i use to raid in world of warcraft.. till a cataclysmic arrow hit its it in the knee
jkw906koz 2 months ago
>>>---Knee--->
petden0 2 months ago 7
Don't they have backup raiders that they could do it with? I'm assuming they aren't as good, but it's something.
DemonstrativePronoun 2 months ago
this is excellent explanation on the exploit, thanks for sharing your thoughts.
however i apologize but every 2 minutes the seriousness of the video is ruined for me because of your hair :)
Mtbfanro 2 months ago
There was also a exploit in Classic Naxxramas with the boss Heigan the Unclean where you could avoid the "dancing" by standing near one of the walls.
Our guild didnt get a ban for doing this exploit, but others did.
TheFreelong 2 months ago
There was also a glitch/exploit from H LK done on my server, as well as numerous servers prior by a guild called Combo Breaker. As far as I have heard they'd server xferred numerous times and stolen Realm firsts from guilds on those servers until they got to mine, after they got the kill they promptly got bans to their accounts.
countrystar94 2 months ago
Do the crime, do the time. Nut up and take it like a (wo)man.
basmithtx 2 months ago in playlist More videos from ZAMOfficial 10
8 day ban and removal of all raid finder items is what i saw decided in the end :S
SuperEmin666 2 months ago
Lore, I agree with you for the most part. I definitely support the guilds' decisions to make use of the exploit, because just as you've pointed out, there was a very real possibility that Blizzard would look the other way, but at the same time, I really have to admire the guilds that refrained from using it. I suppose this is just a bittersweet lesson for Blizzard and all of the guilds who participated in the exploit (Not to mention, everyone watching).
GeekMaster6000 2 months ago
@GeekMaster6000 Umm Lore didn't support the guilds decision to use the exploit, he simply understood and sympathized with it. It would be very odd, and I would look at Lore in under a VERY different light if he SUPPORTED using exploits as a means of the endgame arms race.
xoawolf 2 months ago
@xoawolf That's precisely why I used the key words "FOR-THE-MOST-PART". l2read.
I was agreeing with his statement about having sympathy for the situation that the top guilds found themselves in.
GeekMaster6000 2 months ago
@GeekMaster6000 You should take your own advice, "l2read". The portion of YOUR statement that i was commenting on was this one " I definitely support the guilds' decisions to make use of the exploit" That has nothing to do with Lore's statement at all man. and also relax, stop whipping out the nerd terms when some one simply comments on a statement, it makes you look bad man. "l2read" and "l2p" noob, nub, newb. All that is extremely stupid, just refrain from em man. Peace
xoawolf 2 months ago
@xoawolf I never claimed that Lore supported their decisions. I said that I support their decision because of the underlying information that Lore discussed in the video. Again, learn to read.
GeekMaster6000 2 months ago
@GeekMaster6000 "Lore, I agree with you for the most part. I definitely support the guilds' decisions to make use of the exploit" This says otherwise, you keep saying l2read but you don't even know how to write, or in the very least know what your writing. You statement right there suggests that you agree with using the exploit as you alone said it. It also suggests that you got the incentive to agree because of it. So once again take your own advice.
xoawolf 2 months ago
@xoawolf I honestly can't tell if you're trolling me or just very, very stupid.
Lore was in disagreement with what the top guilds did. Any stupid fuck could tell you that. I said that I agree with MOST (not ALL -- wrap that around your tiny head) of the information he passed on to his viewers through the video. This is where "for the most part" comes in. I supported the guilds' decisions, so it wouldn't make sense for me NOT to have said "for the most part"; He was in disagreement.
GeekMaster6000 2 months ago
@GeekMaster6000 Ok so let me get this straight you BASICALLY just said that you support the guilds decision to use the exploits, and though you said "for the most part" how is ANYONE supose to know that THAT is what you meant? because you kinda jumped down my throat on the first reply... soo my previous post is stating the same thing that you just posted right now, meaning your disagreeing with me even though we stated the EXACT same thing... ya wrap your tiny brain around that
xoawolf 2 months ago
@xoawolf I have enough faith in the general population to assume that they're not retarded. Maybe next time I write a comment, I'll be sure to spell everything out so people like you don't get confused.
GeekMaster6000 2 months ago
@GeekMaster6000 Ambiguity has nothing to do with knowledge unless the information being stated is general knowledge which it ISN'T because of the fact that its a OPINION
xoawolf 2 months ago
Lore I want to know your opinion on the hardmodes. 1/8 HC atm, and trying to do Zon/Yor, without any tank 4 pieces or even more then one healer on 2 pieces due to pure luck. They are a brick wall, using all CDs and burning mana, you still can't out heal it without the buffs from gear. Is that idiotic from Blizzard or are you meant to farm normals even though you are skillled enough for heroic modes...
TheBalfrog 2 months ago
@Realistic82 It's not on that severity. If your job tells you, make this presentation, and you will get your salary. And someone offers you help. You're gonna take it as it effects money. Paragons kills get them money, gets them sponsors. Pays for their lives. If Blizzard don't even test that you can trade items to people locked then ban. Thats slack on their behalf. Exploits are exploits, but Blizzard needs to stop throwing Ban Hammer and actually test these basic things
TheBalfrog 2 months ago
Why not with a 8 day ban the removal of 5 guild levels and freezing guild exp for 14 days i bet they will never do that again.
lordmace2001 2 months ago
well deserved ban, but 8 days is too little, make it 15 days would completely remove the cheaters from the race.
jackietamhk 2 months ago 2
I had an opinion about this, but then someone stole my sweetroll
LordDragonFTW 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
wts my World Of Warcraft account. It has 3 85 toons. The bnet account has 2 copies of Cata and 1 copy of wrath of the lich king. also will come with Starcraft 2 .PST asking 150 usd
Sraparker 2 months ago
Paragon is 6/8 right now anyway lol
jekyllnhydebaby 2 months ago 2
Paragon is still going to get world first Deathwing.
pimpin1739 2 months ago
Paragon just laughs for this, Im sure they all have double accounts and farmed these LFR dungeons with ALTs just in case people are allowed to get away with it. Kinda makes sense.
LeopoldGames 2 months ago
About time Blizz took the hard line on nothing more than cheating end of the day exploit is just a polite way of saying im a cheating mofo. Also Blizz need sto crack down on dirty gold farmers and peeps who buy gold prices in ah on my realm are retarded to say the least but thumbs up to Blizz for taking a serious aproach to these Cheaters.
mgssteve34 2 months ago
I think Blizzard always go overboard on these bans for people exploiting bugs. All that should happen is the benefits the player got for doing the bug should be undone and then Blizzard should just get that bug fixed asap appose to players being banned for Blizzard not getting all the bugs sorted in the ptr.
Azrieth 2 months ago
Yes, you got banned because Blizzard can't code.
Yes, you got banned because Blizzard never fixes bugs during PTR (and hardly ever fixes bugs ever).
Yes, Blizzard is 100% responsible. Does it ban the people that gets 3 or 4 loots / boss because the lfr loot system is so dumb? Shame on Blizzard.
Silmarieni 2 months ago
@Silmarieni Yes, you got robbed because you couldn't lock your door.
Yes, you got robbed because you never lock the door when people say that you forgot to lock it (and hardly locks it ever)
This is a good analogy to that. Should the robbers go free because you didn't lock the door and they still did something against the rules (robbing, in game it was exploiting)?
You can't do anything you want, even if something can be done, it doesn't mean that it is allowed and you are not responsible.
DreamFoxSlaught 2 months ago
Interesting topic. Upvote for good topic... oh wait.
djanigav 2 months ago
Pfft all the dick heads saying he's a blizzard fanboy can go get fucked, you really think people who cheated their way to gear should get away with it? And to think the WoW community are always complaining about "how easy it is to get gear nowdays" seriously get out. /end rant.
Trollingdruid 2 months ago
You're blizzard's bitch!
mobspeak 2 months ago
I disagree, they should lose the world first kill imo. Cheaters are Douche bags. They get everything they deserve. Perma ban imo.
Vilelated 2 months ago
It sort of depends how bad the exploit is. If it's an exploit that gives you a MAJOR advantage, probably an 8-day ban is appropriate. However, if it's something small that gives you a little bit of an edge but not a huge one, removing achieves/gear and a 3-day ban seems fine.
Squavipwn 2 months ago 2
9:48... starz...i think
SIMPLERTHEBEST 2 months ago
The people who used this bug to its fullest and farmed out the LFR 20+ runs should of gotten perma banned
levi454 2 months ago
This is why 10 man kills being the same level as 25 is bad. Paragon and other top guilds are supposed to be out of the race but instead they pulled together the remains of their guild that didn't get banned and made it to #2 in the world...
fightnirish45 2 months ago
TL;DR
HIRE ME BLIZZARD!!!!
Carlinistic 2 months ago
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DREAM Paragon:
We will not attempt to gather a 25-man raid for the week. The several accounts that did not partake in anything illicit are clear, so for this week we are forming a 10-man group with help from ex-members and friends. We will go back to doing 25-man as soon as we can, i.e. at the start of the next reset.
They are currently 5/8HC and world #3. enough said
Ivers3n 2 months ago
is this guys hair done by CGI?
truenolz 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Giving away my EU alonsus realm account due to school commitments. I have 4 80+ 85 Warrior - Raving 85 Priest - Imababe 83 Shaman - Jaguare 81 Mage - Crisiss 64 Paladin - Cliffybirchy - Stormscale 60 Lock - Youfkingwhat - Storm scale 62 Rogue - Wankster Account name - Cliffybirchy@hotmail.co.uk Password send me a message on youtube if you want the password
cliffybirchy 2 months ago
7 dislikes are sitting out there 8day ban :P
MrDnbhead 2 months ago
Look at Paragon on wowprogress. It looks like they didn't get an 8 day ban.
megalo 2 months ago
@megalo Because not everyone in the guild was banned. They are doing it on 10 man
kadragon0 2 months ago
@megalo they are raiding 10men not 25
MrBernabn 2 months ago
@megalo thats because they 10maned it in hc mode they used wat ever guildies were not banned they usaully do them in 25man hc
Kingmark47 2 months ago
It's an embarrassment that a top end guild would stoop to this level in order to be competitive. My gear might be at their level but I earn mine without having to exploiting the system. Blizz should crack down on these types of players and drop some permabans. Re-roll son.
MrWadlo 2 months ago
did the gear get taken away from the players who used the exploit? because i'd take a week off wow for a 4-piece.
josephwalter12 2 months ago
I would like to have seen a slightly longer ban just because this wasn't a one time thing, it should be a message to the whole culture of exploiting to get world firsts. A week is good, but I would have liked to see a slightly longer punishment.
Conjon8811 2 months ago
Also, don't forget that a lot of the raiders that do super high-end progression also have jobs, and, many of them have to take a considerable amount of time off from those jobs to be able to put in the necessary time. So, for those that took a week or more off from work for this progression got doubly screwed, as deserved.
Twidleydee 2 months ago
where did that joke come from?
Raylard 2 months ago
@Raylard skyrim
fluffykittens001 2 months ago
Lore I'm very glad to hear that you are against the exploit and the people using it. /highfive
MafiaHAMMER 2 months ago
I used to take an arrow to the knee ... but then I took a cleaver to the face.
Haywire5714 2 months ago
Well, that just means you're a douche. XD awesome
Lilrichardb 2 months ago
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I think Blizzard should have permanently ban them all to be honest. Cheating is pathetic, and I expected more from top guilds. At least some top end raiding guilds refused to do it. Hopefully one of them can get the world 1st rather than the ones that cheated.
shadowskink 2 months ago
Comment removed
shadowskink 2 months ago
The gm of my guild got a 3 day ban for looting the mob and trtraining it to the guy that won the roll
wowhunter6969 2 months ago
well if your not cheating your not trying
gluesniffer2 2 months ago
I used to think intros wern't funny. then i took an arrow in the knee
parodox22 2 months ago
Comment removed
asddsa76 2 months ago
@asddsa76 not sure if srs.
thats5 2 months ago
KATHUNE? or SEE-THUN
ZharenFX 2 months ago
if theres any small bug in the came like if you could solo gamon on resto shaman with 1 hit ppl would find it... no matter the cost... dunno why but they just do :DDD
Tarcha94 2 months ago
Deathwing kill available, looks like those 'exploiters' missed out big time :(
houdini2233 2 months ago
Paragon should have known better too, they've experienced untested content before and very explicitly did not abuse a bug in order to progress (Sinestra - reporting it got it hotfixed in hours). In fact, this is exactly what happened with Ensidia a year or two ago with the Lich King.
gamerunknown 2 months ago 11
@gamerunknown ensidia didnt do it on purpose tho they didnt no
SiKGaMeRR09 2 months ago
@jmccau Yes in a PERFECT world, Blizzard would not make mistakes, and players wouldn't benefit from them. However, this is reality and mistakes exist and people find the "easy ways" to do things. It's human nature to find the easiest path to rewards. So my argument is as valid as any of yours that you can all come up with. This oversight by Blizzard is their own fault and in no way should have resulted in such a severe punishment. If anything just remove the gear that was traded instead of bans.
LastKnight0727 2 months ago
i saw vodka members Armoury whit 5 pices so yea they did it too.
SimpleFire100 2 months ago
5 pieces isnt impossible to get so dont blame them in advance. within the first 24 hours after patch. many guilds finished 10m normal "guild run" + the lfr that is lots of loot if lucky. i queed lfr got 3 loots then +8 bosses if guild takes down all bosses there is yep more loot chances.
MrSwepyro 2 months ago
Incredibly smart man you are Lore.
h20kdanny 2 months ago
blizzard should be harsher i remember once i spammed trade saying fuck you trade report me if you want blizzard wont do shit and all i got was a 72 hour banned... i mean wtf thats just enough for me to calm down i mean shit i should of gotten more like with everyone else
WowXarion 2 months ago
@SurvivalMinecraft Yes I did watch the video, I still think it's Blizzards fault. They have paid testers and PTR for a reason. If the employees at Blizzard aren't clever enough to find these "holes" in the coding then they really should just say "well our fault fix it ASAP so no one else can do it". Instead of punishing players that were more clever than Blizzard employees. I mean they fixed the Sinestra spell exploit for DKs while servers were still live so why not do the same for this?
LastKnight0727 2 months ago
@LastKnight0727 That is seriously the most idiotic argument I have ever heard. Blizzard should NEVER even have to fix coding mistakes like this because in a perfect world players would understand that its not the way the game was supposed to be played. However, we unfortunately have people like you that come into the equation.
jmccau 2 months ago
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hmm dont think enough peeps have left wow alrdy..smirk
beflacktor1 2 months ago
I have a guildmate who received 72 hr ban for this LFR exploit.
The loot master knowingly gave him (a warrior) intel/spirit plate gear and asked him to give it to the person who won the roll on the item.
The person who won the roll was loot locked, so it looked like to Blizzard that he cheated the system even though he didn't know anything was wrong.
JamesBerg86 2 months ago
hmm dont think enough peeps have left wow alrdy..smirk
beflacktor1 2 months ago
I'm sorry, but the arrow to the knee meme is forcing my hand.
I have to unsubscribe now.
Denamic 2 months ago
I think the biggest exploit people accept is the mass ress exploit used on H rag.
people say it took 500 attempts to down. Say the exploit only saves 5 mins. Thats 41hrs minimum saved there. You tellin me that since paragon was using, the rest wouldnt?
troyus111 2 months ago
You mess with the loot, you get the Hammer.
demonX666 2 months ago
I hate that its so okey to "cheat" in wow and even tho I love method I still think the action towards cheating/exploiting should be this hard or maybe even harder. If you cheat in other sports theres a good chance you wont come back at all from that.
k0rr3aeger 2 months ago
8 day ban for using the "arrow to the knee" joke
Merlin7L 2 months ago
Sooooooo lore ohw long is your ban???
MrDeathsbite 2 months ago
05:46 is the best part and right on the money. People saying that they exploit because they can is about as childish as you can get. I hope someone in the US gets the world first Deathwing, my respect for Paragon, despite being good players is completely lost. 20 druids I can handle, exploits I can't.
ChemiiOneLegacy 2 months ago
I think the most ridiculous action taken against a player for an "exploit" is the sad tale of Karatechop. Got hacked and eventually got all his items back with a "Martin's Shirt" included. The use effect made it kill everything. His casual raiding guild used it and then he got a permaban. They SENT him the item and he gets a permaban.
TheNunRavager 2 months ago in playlist More videos from ZAMOfficial
perm ban. they have played the game long enough to understand an exploit.
BertThewlis 2 months ago
They're damn lucky it's a temp ban IMO. They should know better. I thought the outcome was pretty lame actually.
Allyndaar1982 2 months ago
Leaving the instance to avoid rolling should absolutely be an exploit worthy of temporary bans and loss of gear. However, I do not believe using the two hour trading window should constitute the same response. Characters that roll become ineligible for loot as intended. What they do with that loot should be their prerogative.
That said, I 100% agree with the need for consistency on Blizzard's part. Establish a policy now and stick to it. If that means an 8 day ban at least now it's in writing.
soul9528 2 months ago
so they messed up and exploited a fight and now there bitching they cant do the raid that they were willing to skip ? loot or no i realy dont think they dererve the world first now tell me a perma ban THEN you may have somthing
will3450 2 months ago
8 day ban is acceptable imo. its a beautiful solution.
you wanted to get ahead Illegitimately?? well guess what? now your behind. have fun!
hitting the play-for-sponsorship players where it hurts most. the bank. pure Genius, pure win, and pure unfiltered JUSTICE.
TehKazlehoff 2 months ago
I would have liked if blizzard was more involved and would have gone out with removing the items and a bluepost before this was going live and even if they couldn't fix it they could have warned people that if it's used they will get banned.
MihmetCrido 2 months ago
At the end of the day paragon, method et al are meant to be the top guilds and meant to show other players/guilds how it's done. By exploiting bugs like that they're setting a terrible example (especially to younger players) and i think Blizzard can totally justify an 8 day or greater ban!
immortalplague 2 months ago
In the world of competitive end-game mmo raiding, 1 week of progression can mean the difference between getting a world first or not. In-game and real-life I strongly feel the punishment should fit the crime. Exploiting a loot system to give yourself a leg up on the competition, then being punished by being put behind said competition is just. Only way this won't have as much impact on world-first or region-first Deathwing heroic kills is if the encounter is as overtuned as Ragnaros was.
bleuoval64 2 months ago
This joke used to be funny, then I took an arrow in the knee.
malorkayel 2 months ago 47
Is making an example of someone fair, even if it's necessary?
Pseudonym003 2 months ago
8 day . Going to hurt the world firsts for top 10 in heroics
Chaedhin 2 months ago
Sucks to be them, my give a fuck o-meter is at 0
MrUlmar 2 months ago
It's going to be fairly easy to tell if a guild that exploited would have gotten World First if they hadn't exploited. Did they kill the final boss less than a week after the World First of a guild that had the one week head start? If yes, they would have gotten World First.
Paragon killed heroic Ragnaros a week before Method got the second kill. I'm actually interested to see if Paragon can still win despite the week penalty.
hojdnatir 2 months ago
the only issue i have ultimately with the 8 day ban, is something lore talked about, in that so far for cata blizz has been sitting back and letting exploiters get away with most of the stuff, and just hot fixing the issue, and then all of a sudden its a bad thing to use an exploit.
Blizz has just been very inconsistent with this stuff this expac.
iamwura1 2 months ago
@iamwura1 The problem is the hubris of the top guilds, posting statements on their guild pages basically saying that they expect a slap on the wrist because blizz had become lenient in the first place
Also, the abuse was pretty systematic, completely rampant and after they got caught, they were unrepentant about it.
Blizz was forced to take action to save face. Now, blizz has to follow their own precedent moving forward.
berserksamurai 2 months ago
the ensidia lich king thing, ensidia wrote a statement afterwards basically saying they knew the saronite bombs were bugging it but they weren't going to take saronite bombs out of their dps rotation
myLyphe95 2 months ago
8 days almost works for the reasons stated, the only issue I see with this is the impact on the progression race, not just for the people who are banned, but the for the guilds that are now taking these heroic kills. If one of those guilds manages to get world first deathwing at some point, there will still be people making claims that its just because these other guilds were banned for a week, that they might very well not have got that kill first. I really hope that doesn't happen to be honest
XxEricDarkxX 2 months ago
@XxEricDarkxX well if another guild gets world first while Paragon is banned then it'll just make them realize how big of a mess up they made. That just by exploiting LFR. it cost them a world first and they should feel bad about "cheating."
surfask8er 2 months ago
Well it is actually Blizzard and the people who got banned fault in this, one the people who did it knew what they were doing so they have to take responsibility for what they did, and it is Blizzard's fault for letting it get to the point where people could feel that this was something they could do without punishment. And for the whole amount of banning, 8 days for a top raid guild is quite a lot, that is a week of progression, and in raiding that can make or break you in the race for first
BoxxJuice 2 months ago
Pargon used to be in the running for world first Heroic Madness of Deathwing but then they took an arrow to the knee... er exploited LFR loot and got a 8 day ban.
ZedemMonk 2 months ago
you can say the candy store is bugged because it doesn't secure its candy bars and therefore can be stolen.
ProJanitor 2 months ago
The four dislikes were probably Paragon cheaters that got banned.
berserksamurai 2 months ago
They discovered the bug during the PTR and it shod been reported. But it was used. Blizz let`s u on ptr to report the bugs not to use them.
ScrumiTheMage 2 months ago
Lore another exploit that you, and some others have forgotten about was the exp. exploit in throne of tides instance, and that was a big issue for those that were actually shooting for world fist 85, i think the guy got banned for a bit, but its not like they made him a lvl 80 again after fixing that.
iamwura1 2 months ago
I feel like wht blizz did was fair, however the one where the BH boss was relesed wasn't there was nothing about "do not kill the boss" memo so peoplr thought it was ok to kill
Hellscreamer24 2 months ago
Intro was made of win!
ArieDan246 2 months ago
I love the mirror cube and rubik cube in the background, i also have a mirror and rubik's. reply please, rubik-bro :)
M00nDanCR 2 months ago
16:15 I got banned for 72 hours when I looted boss after everybody left the raidgroup. Didn't know it was an exploit by then. And I didn't had any accomplices. So.. whops :D
sp22 2 months ago
@sp22 That is kind of hard to believe. Your telling us that out of 25 random people not 1 person hit greed or de on an item?
Jacob6875 2 months ago
We were about to use the exploit ourselves but than I took an arrow to a knee.
myhvKun 2 months ago
AHH someone Took Lore's Sweet roll
JavoCross 2 months ago
I used to be a Horde...but then I took a mace to the face
sharkattack056 2 months ago
I believe it should be a perma ban.
WTDou 2 months ago
Did you drink like a truck load of coffee?
Moonidel 2 months ago
I found this a little difficult to masturbate to.
klakicool 2 months ago
TALK ABOUT THE DRAGON ASPECTS!!!!
AvHealer 2 months ago
lol at the ads for womens marmot jackets, are u effin' kidding me?lol
druiddoberman 2 months ago
I think one of the problems is that top guilds are always going to have a lesser punishment that an everybody type guild. They need to have a blanket system with severity and punishments that apply to everyone, regardless.
TheHumanObservation 2 months ago
It's Blizzards fault and they should just fix the bug and move on. A few players getting some extra loot isn't a big deal.
TDelamay 2 months ago
8 day ban is far too lenient
this is competitive end-game raiding we're talking about. boosting yourself to a 4set bonus like that is like taking dope in the olympics. if they bust you, you're not competing anymore for the entirity of the games. so you'll be waiting till the next 4 years (if your career even survives it). imo, the exploiters should be banned for the remainder of cata
IsilionNELE 2 months ago 18
@IsilionNELE Blizzard can't afford to
magicmace1 2 months ago
@IsilionNELE the 8 days does what it was meant to because actually most of the guild that did the exploit didnt bother to do DS on normal so now when they come back they have to clear normal then start heroics which puts them behind by 2weeks and 2 weeks in this competition is basically out of the game
AresRemnant 2 months ago
@IsilionNELE The End Game content will die extremly fast in that case. There are ton of top 10 guilds that uses this exploit, and you want them to wait until summer? It's dumb, and blizz understand that.
MrAlexsaratov 2 months ago
@IsilionNELE They've paid for the game, and they've paid for the service. This offers some leniency by default. Additionally, many players who were in with the exploiting raids were no doubt reluctant participants, perhaps even refused gear. Also, this is not the olympics, that's a retarded analogy.
Denamic 2 months ago
@Denamic
They've broken the Terms of use of the service. If I paid for a basic television pack and found out a workaround where I could get more out of it than I was paying for, I'd probably be tried for Tort (breach of contract) or theft (using something I hadn't paid for). A little tricky with intellectual property, but yeah. It's not a stupid analogy when the average person already feels they're at a disadvantage and the officials let "x" off for "doping" and "x" wins sponsorships.
gamerunknown 2 months ago
@IsilionNELE totally agree, well said mate
Kakashihmf 2 months ago
@IsilionNELE Do the olympics get money from the players? dont think so.. blizzard still want the money :D
MRXylo 2 months ago
@IsilionNELE they cant ban them that long because blizzard wants them to continue to play and pay subscription fee
Grimsoul1 2 months ago
@IsilionNELE Yeah... this is a video game, not the Olympics. Despite what some people might think, it's not nearly that important.
Additionally, if they get banned for the remainder of Cataclysm, not only will they not be paying Blizz for that time, there's a good chance they'll cancel their accounts, which is less money for Blizz, after several quarters of heavy player loss.
Archangel1701D 2 months ago
@IsilionNELE Except the purpose of the game is not hardcore world first progression. It's something that just happens with like less than 2% of the guilds . In fact, Blizzard doesn't even recognize or tack the world firsts, third party web sites do it. What pisses me off is that people don't give a fuck about the real exploiters, botter, hackers, farmers, DDoSers, wintraders, gold sellers etc, that effect EVERYONES gameplay, but when paragon does something, the internet EXPLODES.
JustSueMe 2 months ago
I agree with the bans, but I do believe that its lame of Blizzard not to fix something as easy to find like tradeing items.
Tobiiie 2 months ago
I'm glad they did.
Ps. I dodged the arrow :)
Eirekk 2 months ago
Not like the ban will affect Paragon. They will still get world first hm dw
itzToxcismoke 2 months ago
I killed a spider once,should I get banned for abusing a bug?
dirtbagstatus 2 months ago
@dirtbagstatus not if you killed it but if you had "sexy time " with it, you should.
sushanalone 2 months ago
What the fuck is with this gay ass arrow to the knee shit, really gay so not funny
richb1134 2 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
What the fuck is with fucking gay ass arrow to the knee shit, not funny
richb1134 2 months ago
I think Blizzard should put in a Feat of Strength that says "I found a bug and reported it" :-) It wouldn't help at lot but it couldn't hurt. :-)
Cfmanj 2 months ago
I'm dissapointed in the guilds that used this exploit. Majior praise for the guids who had the sense not to do this as it was so blatently wrong.
Dgispooner 2 months ago
There's a difference between end boss exploitation, and pre end boss exploitation. An end boss has much more substance and awareness than any other boss in the raid, and is taken much more seriously than any other boss, which in my opinion, is why people got punished further for those exploits. The LFR loot exploit really is a whole different ball of wax to deal with.
chaochamp 2 months ago
Liked/Favorited....You hit the nail on the head with this video Lore. Now we just have to hope Blizzard sticks to its guns, and continues punishments that have an impact.
BelowAverageGamerGuy 2 months ago
Sounds like Lore was on the forums arguing these people just before he made this...
jaydogg014 2 months ago
u rulez
jakesteel90 2 months ago
I think we would all LOVE to hear Lore's predictions of how many heroic modes will go down week 1! Thumbs up if you wanna get his 2 cents on that.
0penYourEyes 2 months ago
They knew it was exploit, got caught. If they aren't permanent banned they should consider themselves lucky for only getting 3-8.
Kriegfreak 2 months ago
that arrow to the knee joke is getting stupid...
TitanbrolyGilneas 2 months ago 40
@TitanbrolyGilneas Where are they coming from? I think I missed the last internet meme...
MihaZ 2 months ago
@TitanbrolyGilneas i use to hate the knee jokes untill i took an arrow to the knee.
darkneos2011 2 months ago
@TitanbrolyGilneas It's been stupid since about 12 hours after it started.
MisterClockTower 2 months ago