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From: LaneCh
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  • what a distorted spew of miscontstrawed claims against arminianism. this is typical calvinist misrepresentation of freewill and sin.. shame..

  • Calvinism is a contridiction. First it says that people choose to sin and then it says they have no power to choose to do right. If people have no choice to choose right then that leaves only one option which is to do wrong and that is no choice at all. Everyone has the ability to choose right and wrong or else we would not be held accountable for our actions. God knows who will choose right or wrong before they do it. He predestinates by his foreknowledge. Rom. 8:29-30

  • @horseman528 You forget to include the premise, that is original sin. We sin because we're born into sin because of the fall. Calvinism believes that people choose to sin because they choose according to their nature. When a person is born again, their nature changes in the sense that they are now born of the Holy Spirit so they then want to do things pleasing to God. If man can choose right or wrong in God's eyes as they are, why did Jesus have to die?

  • @LaneCh You missed my point. There is no choice if there is only one choice. People are a mixture of both good and bad. You will not find the words "total depravity" in the bible. Yes all have sinned but that doesn't mean they are all completely depraved. Jesus died on the cross because men could not be perfect. Man's righteousness will not get him into heaven Isa. 64:6 Even non christians can be good people. Just not perfect enuf to go to heaven without the blood of Christ's sacrifice.

  • "It's all there for you, if you read this and finally understood what God did for you. Don't let this opportunity pass you by and repent; ...Happiness, Joy, Love and Eternal Life wait for you if you do so". Hebrews 4:7 Therefore God again set a certain day, calling it Today, when a long time later he spoke through David, as was said before: "Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts." God, have Mercy on Us. Amen!!!

  • ...That's the Faith, Trust in GOD no matter what. Romans 4:13 What does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness." Galatians 3:6 Consider Abraham: "He believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."; James 2:23. You just have to believe him so he can act in your life and lead you to Him People you can't imagine how good is the Eternal Life with God, how much he will make with Us if we believe. The Glory of GOD. Oh Lord, We Gratefullly...

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  • ...So thoughts and emotions comes from Soul (animals do feel as Us) but there's something bigger about the Spirit I haven't understood yet (and won't till God reveals it to us by (remember) his Grace; and It might not even be in this life I don't care; that's the great thing about Us Christian We doesn't need to undestand everything since we understand and we know in whom we believe, that's enough, it's God, and We're his Children, he will teach us in this life and the other for eternity...

  • ...So Adam and Eve got separated from God (We died Spiritually) since then We couldn't ever gain Salvation (reunite with him) by ourselves cuz' we lost the most important part of the equation, the Spirit of God inside Us. Satan thought he won the battle. But Then God Loved Us So Hard/Much that he sent his Son to save us. See? That is the truly meaning of God's Grace. That even when we doesn't deserve it, God wants us to be Saved. Then Jesus owned the right to save us when he died for our sins...

  • ...day I asked him about it. There's not formula to make God respond Prays. He does cuz' it's his own will. Again, we don't deserve it and I won't argue with the Holy that thing. He'll tell you things if it is his will but he mostly respond to what we need, what we really need not what our selfish minds want sometimes And what we need may feel not so comfortable sometimes, it might even be bad things (from what it looks like but it's not) if it's neccesary for our Salvation, got it?)...

  • ...He obviously got to judge us, since everything is subject to the Act. if it exists it's subjected to his Law, Simple. So Adam and Eve sinned, then they died to God, why cuz' God sustain everything (dead means separation) and they separated from God by Spirit (We were made in his image which is not just the way we Look; We're Body, Soul and Spirit as He Is God Father, God Son and Holy Spirit, I don't know if they neccesarily correspond the same order or strict nature, he told about this one...

  • ...Justice cuz' we as sinners are hurting him, as we sin we hurt him cuz' we are part of his Creation and he sustain his creation Hebrews 1:3 through Jesus (personification of God himself before starting to create all things, that's why Jesus is the firstborn of all the Creation, and still is God) Ok. move on, so how the freak can we be saved. Well, first, you got to understand as God is sovereign of his creation and he sees everything from his Throne Psalms 139:7-12 (and can't ignore sin)...

  • ...comes from God. All we do in the name of good comes from God cuz' it's his nature, he is love remember?, all good things comes from him. But why? (I'm amazed God is revealing me this stuff to me right now, it is actually in the Bible but you can't see it if he's not telling it to you through the Holy Spirit, oh man) Well, God not only created the Universe and Us of course, He actually sustain his Creation, that's why he has to do Justice cuz'...

    No one actually deserves Salvation Romans 3:23

  • I'm not calvinist, and I'm not into their believes as I don't see the way they see it, Thanks God. God is Love, therefore if We Love, it has to come from God cuz' he's love right? (God doesn't say anything for no reason, he says he is Love for a reason; oh man how deep are God Ways, isn't it? We're here barely discussing Super Basic things according to the knowledge of his Universe and it's still a bit difficult to understand) Ok, here we go again; all good things (even from non-Christians)...

  • ...our acts he chose to help Us. Yeah!! He did chose to help us. He sent his own son for that reason. He had to choose some of his Children to Bless Nations through them He had to break our hearts so we could be Saved cuz' our nature is different since Adam and Eve sinned. We can't do anything to gain Salvation all he ask us is to repent and believe in his Son, JesusChrist and that also come from Him. How Great is God. I mean those are God thoughts We can't quite understand, HE IS GOD, REMEMBER.

  • ...in Jesus. Take advice: Mark 13:33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is. ...- 37. Romans 11:28-36 (what I was talking about). Remember that Noah's family was saved through him. About Esau; Hebrews 12:12-17. Pray for Wisdom Ppl here we go: Through Chosen Ppl God saves un-chosen ones 2 Tim. 2:25-26. Non of us would reach God's Grace if God had not intervened directly. See? His Love is even bigger than we barely can understand I mean even though we're responsible for...

  • ...Righteous. That's why so many ppl can't get that idea that he would just create us to then lead some of us to hell? like what? NO, never is Satan more Satanic than when he blasphemes the word of God (Ex. When he tried to make Jesus tempt The Father). The Word also says We Are responsible for our acts, that we are moral beings with the capacity to choose between good or evil, So I think it's a blasphemy to say Salvation is only for God's predestined children but for all of us who believe...

  • ...the Chosen ones. I do believe even those chosen ppl can lose the battle aswell. I mean they are choose for a mission but they're still responsible for their acts, and their acts still have consequences. I'm not sure if they would be saved no matter what God have to do with them but I don't think they'd be the only saved ones, we can't quite understand some things cuz' we're limited humans but anyway God has written his love in our hearts and we can discern (a little bit) that he's Holy and...

  • ...But it did't mean Jacob would be saved nor Esau would die, But he got a purpose with Esau/Jacob Romans 9:12. So Predestination doesn't mean Salvation for what I've understood but it does mean God choose some ppl to act through them and save many (pretty different), as he blessed the nations through Abraham. I don't think God exactly choose ppl to lose their souls (God!!). I think he choose some ppl to use them as instruments. So I think it's a heresy to say that saved ppl would be only the...

  • I believe God does choose some Ppl to be instruments... but they're not the only saved Ppl... they're a little few And he does it not because they'd be special but for his mercy. I mean no one deserves it but he still help us to reach his Grace and some of us are called randomly (I'm not sure just saying) so he'd be Glorified by his Amazing Grace. But It doesn't mean they'd be saved like that, Remember Esau? He sold his birthright for a mess of pottage n he tried to regai it but he couldn't...

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  • Racist

    

  • How evil to spread this false gospel and change the nature of God. 1 John 2:2

  • @marglynn Explain how it's a false gospel and changes the nature of God. I'm sure if someone came to the police and said, "marglynn stole my money. He's a liar," you'd want him to explain himself to the policeman rather than the policeman just taking his word for it and locking you up.

  • @LaneCh Lane, I don't understand your example here. I looked at your website and under your About Me: in me, that is in my flesh, dwells no good thing. Rom 7:18

    I wish your about me said this:

    I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. Galations 2:20

  • @LaneCh

    Rev 22:17 The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let the one who hears say, “Come!” Let the one who is thirsty come; and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life.

    Salvation is a gift for anyone who chooses!! Truly good news! God's nature is not such that he would have His Son die on the cross for a predetermined few who will, against their wills perhaps, be drawn irresistably to Him.

  • Yes, it does. It means that the god you believe in is a totally depraved reprobate. May he be saved from his sins.

  • Galatians 2:6 says that God has no favorites.

  • @KayBeeEee1983 This is true, which means when God elects it is not based on any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth!

    Romans 9:11

    Exodus 33:19

  • @jls201 If it's not because of good or evil, that means it's arbitrary. A God who elects people arbitrarily is not a living God.

  • If Calvinism is the Christian denomination which holds to scripture most precisely, that is proof of just how FUBAR the Holy Bible is.

  • The problem with calvinists is they presume the bible is the literal "word of God" instead of reading it with an open mind and using their own consciences to decide if it was written by God or by a corrupt man.

    Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but calvinists believe that salvation is predetermined and that hell is never ending pain. So what that means is that God creates the vast majority of souls knowing that they will go to hell for an eternity of suffering. Have I been misinformed?

  • "the One you have sinned against is *obligated* to offer you complete pardon or He is not just."

    An adult who knowingly breaks the law does not deserve a pardon, but if a child breaks the law, many would argue that they do deserve a pardon. An adult who understands God's Law doesn't deserve heaven, but an adult who has only sinned during childhood DOES deserve heaven.

  • @KayBeeEee1983 Romans 3:23...onwards.

  • No parent that has the capacity to love shows favoritism among their children.

  • Yes, Lane. The calvinist god is an unjust god. In fact, as people like Castellio, Melanchton and Bullinger believed, the calvinist god is interchangable with the devil. For what does Calvin say about his god? Calvin says his god directs - not only allows, but directs - evil, even if he 'wills not and wills it' at the same time. Furthermore, how dare you speak of 'common sense'. WHO exactly predestined mankind to sin, Lane?

  • @TennesseeOwnsMyBones is that truth? I mean, according to this Ppl, God leads some ppl to the devil just for his satisfaction or something like that?...

  • @Notmineonline According to supralapsarian calvinism, yes, some people have been specifically created to be damned.

  • @TennesseeOwnsMyBones No need answer. I didn't watch that part when I was asking. But I already know for what I heard of this person Calvinism is a Sect. That's it.

  • @SlaveOfCrist I have read and studied it many times, you need to read it in its context. Don't forget about the "in Him". Your username shows you use a modern bible version, I strongly recommend you get a King James Bible. In love..

  • @beethovensheir No, a degree is definetly not necessary. To others yes it may take longer to understand the bible, while the Holy Ghost gives them understanding. God is longsuffering. But this calvinism theology of tulip is blasphemy to Gods truth and character, if someone cant see that then they are blinded by the devil.

  • @TheKJVberean Read ephesians 1:4-11 and meditate upon that.

  • @TheOkstate2012 Agreed brother! Calvinism is not the faith of the bible, nor the God of the bible. Its nothing but religious intellectualism. One of the most dangerous religions going. @horseman528 great point! But see, calvinists dont have any logic behind what they are teaching, they use john calvin to interpret the bible instead of letting the bible interpret itself. Calvinists need a degree to understand their theology, yet little children can understand the bible with no education.

  • @TheKJVberean Sorry Brother,but you are grossly mistaken. I do not know a single "Calvinist" who became one because they were "following" Calvin,while this may have happened (as it has happened with every teacher) you need to be careful not to misrepresent the other side. I personally know a group of men who because "calvinists" without even so much as having read any of the reformers. And instead just studied the Bible.

  • @TheKJVberean what is more, just because something is hard to understand this does not make it untrue. God created all things out of nothing. Do you understand that? yet it is written in the Bible, how many centuries will it take us to plumb the depths of these unfathomable truths, which I thank God for. No one who has truly been saved would say that salvation at it's core is not simple,

  • @TheKJVberean but to reduce the entirety of Christian theology to something that can be understood at first glance, our on our initial encounter with it. Is not only unbiblical, but is offensive to God. This is why men get degrees, so that they can begin to look into the bottomless casmn of beauty that is God's unfathomable wisdom. We go deep because God is deep, we encourage others to go deep so that they to will see the amazingness of our God and Savior.

  • If God does all the saving and man has no part in his or her own salvation, then how would one know whether or not they were saved? Also, there would be no need to obey God or follow any plan of salvation since we can't do anything and God does everything for us. We could all go around and be murderers and rapists and not worry about anything since we have no part in our own salvation. I don't believe this doctrine of man.

  • @horseman528 Hey, I think God gave us his answer about that. It's a bit long but It's still important I think. God Bless!!!

  • @Notmineonline I don't even Know!!!! All I know is nobody taught me all I said here but the Holy Spirit, I mean I started righting and suddenly all answers came to my mind I began to prophesy (It's amazing) and I'm not talking about me I'm talking about how good God Is, to even speak to ask when we don't deserve it.

  • If God does all the saving and man has no part in his or her own salvation, then how would one know whether or not they were saved? Also, there would be no need to obey God or follow any plan of salvation since we can't do anything and God does everything for us. We could all go around and be murderers and rapists and not worry about anything since we have no part in our own salvation. I don't believe this doctrine of man. Calvinists mistake Gods foreknowledge with no freewill.

  • 17 people don't like what the Bible has to say about their sinfulness and rebellion.

  • i watch sermons about liveing biblecle and sereving him weather he allowes bad things to happen or blessing and in this selection is all ways your calvinism cavinisum preach jesus christ crusifed for the fogiveness of sines

  • Thanks for putting this out. If you want to underdstand Calvinism-understand what the righteousness of God is and if he condemmned absolutly everyone to hell and damnation-God would be just and holy not losing one iota of what makes him God.

  • @daveme7

    Hey stupid,

    Christ died so no one would go to hell

    maybe you should blow the dust off your bible

    and put up your systematic theology book

  • God's choosing comes from His Nature not explanation of His choosing.Until you understand God is perpetual Virtue and He cannot be suspended in attribute or Virtue.Which came first God's Spirit (substance) God is Spirit or did God's Virtues and attributes come first? They are simultaneous of course.God's self existing Life is dependent on His Virtue and attributes never being suspended.It is not about us how God chooses.All free will suspends God's Nature.

  • A lunatic opinion, not rightly dividing the Word of Truth. Be filled with the Holy Spirit who will lead you into the truth.

  • its crazy that God cursed the devil and all the angels and has eternally damned them, the creatures he made b4 the world was even created. they havnt recieved a saviour, but doesnt everyone still agree that God is loving? God cursed the Hamites in Genesis 9 why dont people run around about God's injustice? but wen God curses humanity and puts all, rightly, under the justice of sin and chooses to save certain people shudnt we rejoice?

  • Everyone gets what they want.

    Except the christian.

    Everyone runs from god and god lets them go.

    Unless you're a christian.

  • Psalms 119:74

    May those who fear you rejoice when they see me, for I have put my hope in your word.

  • So has anyone realized yet that God wants to save all people and He will achieve that desire because He is the one in control of salvation (and all things actually)?

    As others have posted, Calvinism leads to elitism and hypocracy... its tough to claim God only wants to save some people and then also claim you are one of the "lucky" ones God chose.

    God will have all men to be save and come to a knowledge of the truth. Its good news for all people.

    check out tentmaker(.)org for more info.

  • For the saul converting to paul on the road to Damascus, Saul was given the choice. Either to follow what had been sent to him from heaven (vision), or what he was on his way to do (law). All are elected,(Christ's crucifixion and resurrection), few choose to follow Christ. The bit from Isiah the point is that they were given ears that were open (to hear the law) but they choose not to do the law, impossible for flesh, as the law is a spiritual one. The idea was to follow by faith. God saves.

  • For the saul converting to paul on the road to Damascus, Saul was given the choice. Either to follow what had been sent to him from heaven (vision), or what he was on his way to do (law). All are elected,(Christ's crucifixion and resurrection), few choose to follow Christ. The bit from Isiah the point is that they were given ears that were open (to hear the law) but they choose not to do the law, impossible for flesh, as the law is a spiritual one. The idea was to follow by faith. God saves.

  • I feel like this guy missed it by "that much".

    Moses had a call from the burning bush and Pharaoh had a call when Moses began performing signs. Each received supernatural signs and each made their own decision. Moses decided to obey God after the burning bush, leprosy, etc. while Pharaoh refused to turn, even though God gave him signs such as the Nile turning to blood, etc.

    Moses faith was at work with his own actions, resulting in a righteousness being poured upon him, from God.

  • This is one of the greatest travesty of falsely accusing God. 1. Would everyone agree no matter what one believes whether Calvinism or Arminianism-that whatever God decides to do-God is holy?

  • This isn't about God's sovereignty, this is about elitism. Has anyone ever met a Calvinist that wasn't part of the elect?

    Why doesn't he bring up the fact that Sheol, Hades and Gehenna don't even mean hell? Why doesn't he bring up the word aion?

  • @mfentruck It not about elitism. Its very humbling when you learn that your salvation is not in your hands, but in God's hands. Knowing that should drive you to your knees before this sovereign God.

    The elect are unmistakably known only by God. Not one of us know the saved and the damned absolutely. We can only know the profession of faith. God alone knows who are His. We dont. We only have the external evidences, which includes godly perseverance in the Christian faith.

    How is that elitist?

  • It is elitist. I have never met a Calvinist that wasn't part of the "elect". Why would god choose some over others and what is the standard? Belief without evidence? How come Christians don't ever question the morality of their god?

    I wouldn't be driven to my knees by an amoral tyrant. I wouldn't be driven to my knees by an all powerful being that would punish people eternally for simply not believing the right thing and for being created as a human. That's sadistic.

  • @mfentruck In answer to your comment about the morality of God, it is because every person is born in trespasses and sins (total depravity) and we all fall short of the glory of God that God would be in the right to destroy us all. But He doesn't destroy us because He is a "gracious and merciful God, slow to anger and abundant in lovingkindness, One who relents from doing harm." Jonah 4:2. The mystery is not why God doesn't love everyone the same, but the question is why does He love any of us?

  • I used to be a Christian so I have heard all of these things already. god is responsible for creating humans as they are so he is an idiot to get so upset over it.

    Why would you even ask that question? That's like asking why people would love their children.

  • @mfentruck Why God chose some over others is that those chosen in Christ were selected for salvation not because of any foreseen faith or good works on their part, but merely out of Gods grace and free love. This was done by the decree and counsel of God according to His eternal and unchangeable purpose in the good pleasure of His will and for the showing forth of His glory. God did not do this because He saw something good or evil in people, or because there was some requirement laid upon Him.

  • @mfentruck It is also worth mentioning about your elitist comment that in John 6:37 Jesus said "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out." Anyone who comes to Jesus will received Him. The Bible does not allow an exclusivity that results in someone wanting to be a Christian and not being accepted by Christ. ANYONE who comes to Christ will received by him joyfully.

  • Yes I understand that but you can't expect someone to believe something without evidence and then punish them when they don't. Also there are plenty of people that don't get to hear about jesus. I know that you will probably say that god will judge them accordingly, but that is not in the bible. I don't believe that free will is in the bible.

  • I think that this video is really, really, really funny. I mean, it's so dramatic. I agree with the doctrine, but the guy goes from chilling on the beach to casually sitting in a black dungeon of doom. Hahaha

  • There are many places in the Bible that make it clear that God wants everyone to repent. Calvinism really goes against the entire theme of the Bible, and I have seen with my own eyes how it has turned people away from God.

    Most Calvinists that I have come across seem to have the same cold hearted "who cares" attitude. It just seems to be the fruit of Calvinism.

    I am not saying that they are not saved, but many of them are just so cold.

  • The overarching and extending theme of the Bible is the radiance of God's glory and that being fulfilled in His redemption of humanity. God will always enact for His greatest and most superior glory. And you're welcome to disagree, but I am personally going to assert that God is most glorified when He 1. Chooses the person. 2. Regenerates them. 3. Saves them. 4. Continues in them.

    That is God's glory broadcasted, and that is why I philosophically believe it's Biblical. But you may disagree.

  • amen

  • 2 Problems I have with this:

    1. The bible says God wants ALL people to repent and come to Christ, forgot where in the bible though.

    2. Just because God chose some people to be disciples does not mean he choses 100% of Christians to be disciples.

  • 1 Timothy 3- This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time.

    Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

  • 1. You're right He does want ALL people to come to Him and repent but due to our sinful state we can't. If you read John 3:16-18 you'll see that man was already condemned and that's why Christ came.

    2. 100% of ALL true Christians ARE Disciples. Christian literally means follower of Christ and Disciple means "a follower of the doctrines of a teacher." So if you're not a follower of Christ than what is left to be?

  • I meant more like just becuse Jesus chose the 12 disciples / hand picked them, doesnt mean he chose/handpicked 100% of all christians, just the ones from the bible so they could work with him while we was on earth.

  • (Ephesians 1:3-4)

    Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world .

    There's alot more verses I could give you to prove he has but at the moment I don't exactly recall them.....A much easier way of making me believe your statement is back it up with scripture and simply prove your point :)

  • There are actually loads of verses for the first example. I'll give evidence in some vid once I can, but you're right.

  • How do you define ALL - if you define it as everyone in the world than in the context of that passage I Timothy 3 you than have to pray for the dead and out of the phone book. All means types - for kings, princes, paupers, presidents, businessman, doctors, black, white, Asian, etc

    - All Christians are disciples in some factor. They have decided to follow Jesus. One cannot just except him as Savour and reject him as Lord.

  • @Xavier350 1.The Bible says God has predestined.

    2.Those who are called to be Christian are disciples of Christ!There is no such thing as a Christian who is not a disciple of Christ...there is such a thing as false Christians but that is sort of a different issue.God has called his elect and his elect,his children will walk in the way of righteousness,stumble sometimes,sure,it is a consistent struggle btw flesh and Spirit. suggest you read the book of Romans.God bless.

  • @GodLovesUs100

    I suggest you understand the Book of Romans before you jump into an argument proving your ignorance.

    What we are predestined for is not salvation but THEOSIS. Even if humanity had not fallen, Christ, the Word and Son of God, would have become Incarnate to dwell upon creation. Why? B/c God created us to 'be like Him," (Gen 1:26)

    Not to mention that we are not depraved as God Himself declares us "Very Good" in verse 31, same chapter.

  • @DopoNotte He declared that before mankind fell into sin.

    "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked; who can understand it?" Jer. 17:9

    "The LORD looks down from heaven on the children of man, to see if there are any who understand, who seek after God.They have all turned aside; together they have become corrupt; there is none who does good, not even one." Ps 14:2-3

  • Your concept is time is the source of the error. Since God is the Master and Creator of time itself, time does not master God. God is not subservient to time. This is an important point, one that can not be over stated.

    In the position posted something happens, then something else happens in response. This is error.

    Show me one baby who is NOT a creation of God. Can you? Certainly not! For everything that is made is made by God. All of humanity is made in the Image and declared Very Good

  • @DopoNotte Yes, and Satan is a creation of God too, does that make him good?Of course not.God creates babies yes yet the problem here in the inheritance of sin that baby was conceived in sin and that is their desire as they're born in the flesh.It's not until(if) they become born-again in the Spirit that they begin to go through sanctification.

    And don't ignore what I quoted of the word of God itself saying our hearts are desperately wicked, that's depravity.

  • @GodLovesUs100

    Your analogy is a fallacy for Satan is never declared good. Humanity on the other hand clearly is. Not just good, but Very Good.

    Your interpretation that our hearts are desperately wicked = depravity is your opinion of the text; it is your interpolation. In other words: it's a different gospel

  • @DopoNotte Satan was an angel of Heaven..what,was he bad when God created him?Did God create him evil?It's not an interpretation, it is clear.If someone's heart is DESPERATELY wicked that means it is not good.And from the other verse I quoted, we see the Bible says there ARE NOT THAT DO GOOD AND SEEK AFTER GOD.What is man, that we would even want to exalt him?We are dust,nothing without God.

  • @GodLovesUs100

    Again your understanding of time is the source of the error. "Was Satan bad when God created him or did he turn bad?" This line of thinking, one thing happens in response to another, is not appropriate.

    This dualistic line of thinking is the major heresy of the West. And in fact is the cause of the fall of Adam and all mankind. Knowing this let us not be dualistic, either or, but rather single-minded BOTH AND.

    As stated Gen 1:31 debunks Total Depravity

  • @DopoNotte No, it's not.We are are born in sin because of Adam, children of wrath without Jesus Christ.Genesis 1:31, like I said, was BEFORE sin, man was good, man was sinless...but now man is NOT good, as Jesus said "there is None Good but God"...there are none that do good, according to the Bible and none that seek after God.Our hearts are wicked and deceitful and we live after the flesh if we are not in Christ.We are depraved.We cannot come to God unless he draws us.

  • @GodLovesUs100

    There is no BEFORE or AFTER for God.

    Understand that this is the source of your error. As my original reply to you stated, your concept of time is where the error exist.

  • @DopoNotte There is with human beings.Are we god?No.Our ancestors were sinless and not depraved and then they fell into sin and it has been inherited, our hearts have waxed cold and there are none that seek to do good in godly standards by their own flesh.

  • @GodLovesUs100

    "Are we god? No" Yet we are told to be imitators of Him, to have the renewing of our minds to that of Christ, the Image of the invisible God - and that we are made in His Image according to His likeness - our predestination is to be like Him!

    Why then would you want to continue promulgating the worldview from the fall of mankind?

  • @DopoNotte Yes, and why are we told to change?Because our natural self is wicked.And only God can transform us as he does in sanctification.Only he can conform us to the image of his Son...it's not our own works that santify us.

    And I am not, the Bible claims we are wicked at heart, the world, much like the Catholic Church, wants to puff up sinners

  • @GodLovesUs100

    There are a few issues here. First: why do you believe you properly understand, interpret, and rightly Divide the Word of God?

    Secondly, your definitions of terms are a form of a tradition, a tradition of men, lawyers, insane monks what have you, that is not substantiate by ANYONE from before 1517. So why do you believe that tradition over the Tradition of Holy Orthodoxy?

  • @DopoNotte 1.I take it for what it is and it is pretty clear.It's not for us to self interpret but the Spirit gives us interpretation and the Father reveals to us hidden knowledge in due time, he does all things in the fullness of time.

    I don't believe in any tradition, I believe in the Bible and I can clearly see that the Bible says the heart of man is wicked.I am not going to listen to some priests who believe themselves to be divine to pass down the meaning for me.

  • @GodLovesUs100

    You don't believe in any tradition? That is clearly false. Read what you wrote "It is not for us to self-interpret but the Spirit gives us interpretation and the Father reveals to us hidden knowledge in due time..."

    That is a form of tradition. Not to mention it's pseudo-gnostic... "hidden knowledge?" lol Yea anyway. No escaping the fact that you have tradition. Or your second reply "A works based gospel." The idea that that is false is your TRADITION.

    You can't escape it

  • @DopoNotte No, it's the TRUTH.

    divine revelation (John 16:12-15; Ephesians 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21); salvation (John 3:6; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:2); and Jesus' works (Isaiah 61:1; Acts 10:38). Thus, the Father does all these things by the power of the Holy Spirit.

  • @GodLovesUs100

    So now any book that says "it's the TRUTH" you'll blindly believe to be the Truth? Not to mention that you'll blindly believe you're able to properly understand it?

    Why do you believe the Bible to be the Truth?

  • @DopoNotte Not blindly.You're in the darkness if you do not abide in Christ Jesus.He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life.

  • @GodLovesUs100

    How do you know you abide in Christ Jesus?

    And I'd be careful what you call gnostic unbiblical beliefs. After all you were the one who talked about the Father revealing "hidden knowledge." lol

  • @DopoNotte God has given his Spirit as a guarantee and beofre you ask 'How do you know you have the Spirit"...my answer is:the fruit.

    And hidden in the sense that it is a great godly mystery.

    But that book has already been shown to be a late text and Gnositc which was an unstable, heretical belief with many false claims often times called out by church fathers.

  • @GodLovesUs100

    How do you know you are guided by the Spirit of Truth?

  • @GodLovesUs100

    "But the book has already been shown to be a late text and Gnostic which is unstable..."

    Shown by whom?

  • @DopoNotte Church leaders, scholars, historians, ect.ec.t.

  • @GodLovesUs100

    Church leaders - you mean like the Bishop's of the Orthodox Church? If you believe them in matters of know what is accurate and what is heresy... why don't you believe them in other matters of theology and faith?

  • @DopoNotte Oh no sorry, my bad, by leaders I mean people who lead in a sense that could mean debates, philosophers, apologists, ect.ect..

  • @GodLovesUs100

    So why do you believe people who argue, debate over the Bishop's of the Church? And philosophers? Ever read Colossians? Beware lest anyone cheat you through PHILOSOPHY.

    Oh well.

    Look you still haven't answered WHY you believe what you believe.

    How do you know you're putting your trust in God? How do you know the books in the Bible are the Word of God?

  • @DopoNotte Yes, I have answered but the answers do not line up with your own philosophy and beliefs and so I am automatically not answering you somehow..when I have answered, it's not my fault you just don't have understanding...I pray the Lord will grant that to you before it's too late

  • @GodLovesUs100

    You haven't answered anything. And telling me I better be like you in my theological understanding before it's too late is just comical!

    Can you substantiate anything you've said? Can you simply answer WHY you believe what you do?

  • @DopoNotte I have answered you.

  • @GodLovesUs100

    You actually have not stated WHY you believe what you believe. You just continue to say what you believe.

    There is a difference.

  • @GodLovesUs100

    You believe works based gospel is false: that's tradition

    You believe salvation by grace alone is the truth: tradition

    You believe RCC is heretical: tradition

    You believe the Bible is the Word of God: tradition

    You have not once said WHY you believe the Gospel is the Power of God. Why is it over say the Qu'ran or just the Torah?

    Why do you believe what you believe?!

  • @DopoNotte I believe that because God has declared it in it word and I would rather follow him than man.You would rather follow the traditions of man and not of God, well I am sorry, man does not have the power to save you.

    and Yes,I have answered that.I explained why Jesus is the only way and that the gospel is an amazing, supernatural message that allows God to be BOTH Just and the Justifer of wicked men.

  • @GodLovesUs100

    You believe that God has declared your interpretation of the Bible into the world. A Catholic could easily say the same thing: God declared a 'works based' gospel for example.

    What is the difference between you and a Catholic in that point?

  • @DopoNotte His Spirit gives interpretation, I don;t believe it comes from the mind of men...God can reveal his truth to man, I am not saying he can't but there comes a time when we are to expose false liars for what they are and a great way to do that is using the word of God.Preaching a false, works based gospel is not clear indication that the person is receiving it from God since it contradicts his word.Liek I said, his word is sufficient,nothing else is needed :)

  • @GodLovesUs100

    And how do you know the Spirit has given your the proper interpretation?

  • @DopoNotte Well we can see if we have the Spirit by the fruit of it.Also, God's word is just so much clearer and continues to get so as I personally experience what it is saying.I don't know everything, like I said, God does all things in the fullness of time.I just want to stand in what he has allowed me to understnad.

  • @GodLovesUs100

    God's Word is amazingly clear ever since I converted to Holy Orthodoxy. How is your story different from mine?

  • @DopoNotte I am not saying I rely only on my human experience.No doubt people do experience something, even when going to false religions, but that does not mean it is from God.The way to know is going back to his word and comparing, would God reveal something that contradicts his word for example?(like Islam) of course not.

    The Bible tells us to test the Spirits to see whether or not they are from God.

  • @GodLovesUs100

    How do you know you're going back to His Word?

  • @DopoNotte Huh? Are you trying to ask me how I know I am in his word?(you just worded yourself in a weird way)...and the answer is because I read what is says and then examine myself.I am not perfect, I know that, I am a work in progress as the Lord leads me in sanctification.

  • @GodLovesUs100

    Why do you believe the Bible over the Qu'ran? How do you know you're properly testing the Spirits?

    How do you know anything and everything you believe isn't just complete and total delusion and bs?

  • @DopoNotte The wisdom of this world is foolishness with God.I don't know how to explain how God works and I am not going to try and do that, but the world cannot understand the words of scripture, the gospel is foolish to those who are perishing.When God saves someone, he does a work in their life and gives his Spirit as a guarantee...you want me to explain how...I can't tell you, I am not God but what I do is that his truth has power and that Jesus is the truth,

  • @GodLovesUs100

    I'm again I'm asking you to explain God but you explain yourself!

    Why do you believe anything you believe?

  • @DopoNotte I told you why Jesus is the only way, he was the only one ever to deal with the issue of sin.He paid the fine, there are consequences for sin but he bore it.No, Muhammad did not do that,Buddha did not do that,ect...ect.. God is Salvation and May he grant you the truth and knowledge of repentance.Even if I didn;t believe, that would not diminish the truth of the Lord Jesus Christ and his good news to the world.Meditate on scripture...May God save you.

  • @GodLovesUs100

    Why do you believe there was a fine to be paid?

  • @DopoNotte Because of sin.Common logic tells us, if I do a bad thing, I deserve punishment.If I brake a law on Earth, I should go to jail or pay some type of fine or do something,We have all broken God's law, it;s there to give a knowledge of sin..for if the law has not said "you shall not covet"..how would I know it was wrong to covet?

  • @GodLovesUs100

    So b/c man (who in your mind is total depraved) exacts punishment upon his fellow man, then of course God is subservient to the same world view!

    I love that logic. God is like us!

    No sorry. Wrong.

  • @DopoNotte No, I am not going to simply draw a line from A TO B like that.What I did was take what God has revealed in his word and then show how even simple logic tells us there is a punishment for evil.

  • @GodLovesUs100

    So Scripture is simple and clear when you want it to be; but complex when it doesn't fit your theology.

    I see how this works.

  • @GodLovesUs100

    In fact Christ tells us that God is not like man, He does not desire an eye for an eye. Maybe it is YOU who needs to examine, as I have clearly pointed out, why you believe what it is you believe.

  • @DopoNotte And Good-bye.May the Lord God Almighty grant you understanding and knowledge of the truth for his own glory may you be lead.

  • @GodLovesUs100

    Why do you believe your faith in God is accurate while RCC is inaccurate?

    Or does it come down to "b/c I said so" ?

    Peace

  • @DopoNotte No.

    Because the Bible said so :)

    And Peace.

  • @GodLovesUs100

    Why do you believe you're right and those who disagree with you are wrong?

  • @GodLovesUs100 I gotta run to work. Know that i ask questions not b/c I disagree with you (at least not outright) but to get you to more analyze why it is you believe what you believe. Why it is you do what you do. etc etc

  • @GodLovesUs100

    Why, for example, do you believe preachers John MacArthur or Paul Washer (or whomever you list to) over a priest in the RCC?

    If you don't listen to MacArthur or Washer, why do you not listen to them?

    Can you actually qualify why do you do what you do?

  • @DopoNotte By what they preach, I can see they are men of God.However, I do not always agree with every single little thing every preacher ever says, that is nonsense.We are all at different places in our walk with God, different places of sanctification. i look to Christ as the Lord, the only human being who ever walked on this planet with full truth---who is the Truth incarnate

  • @GodLovesUs100

    How do you know they preach the Gospel and not a different one? You claim RCC preaches a different gospel. How do you know?

    Maybe YOUR gospel is the different gospel? Ever think about that?

    I gotta run. Peace

  • @DopoNotte I compare with scripture.I believe it is clear...like when it teaches salvation by faith alone, not of works, lest any man should boast.Another way to examine a person is by the Spirit-is it fruit of the Spirit or fruit of the flesh?Again, we have to look to the word of God..like I said, it is sufficient.

  • @GodLovesUs100

    "I believe it is clear." that is faith my friend. Just admit it

  • @DopoNotte My faith in what?Why I believe what I believe? Yes, I have faith in God.That is crucial...Jesus evens said we are to pray believing it will be answered.Don't get me wrong-I am not trying to set aside my faith and go all "rational" like the liberals, I am just trying to show you there are reasons that I have my faith in God and reasons why it grows and I begin to trust him more more.It is his work, faith is a gift,remember?I cant explain to you how he works.

  • @GodLovesUs100

    The answer is simple: you have faith that the Spirit is guiding you.

    That's all you need to say. In fact that's the only answer. Once you're able to admit this, then we can move on to theology 102

  • @DopoNotte No, I know...I don;t just think, we are called to make our call of election sure, remember? And we do that by seeing the evidences of fruit, examining ourselves in the word.

  • @GodLovesUs100

    You have stated WHAT you believe. Not why.

    I am asking WHY you believe it. Can you give me any evidence other than your OPINION of Scripture?

  • @DopoNotte I told you why over and over again, if you're going to ignore me, go right ahead, because I have told you God has changed my life, I have explained WHY JESUS IS THE ONLY WAY, God has opened my down and done something in my life that I just cannot explain to you by natural means.I am not against defending the faith or asking questions or anything like that-but there comes a time when you just get ridiculous and try to take faith out of the equation.

  • @GodLovesUs100

    So you believe that Jesus is the only way and the Bible and Power of God in the Gospel b/c of differences in your life?

    That's fair

    But then what about someone who converts to Islam, or Hinduism, or Buddhism?

    I'm sure many converts to those religions ALSO share a similar life story. Why is yours different?

    In fact - it's not

  • @DopoNotte No, because of what the Bible claims...the differences of my life are proof that God will keep the promise of his word.

    There is deception.But like I explained to you before, Jesus is the only way b/c Jesus was the only one ever to deal with the issue of sin.If we stand before God in sin, he will give us Justice, but abiding in Christ means a saint will be clothed with the power of Christ and stand before God in his righteousness and therefore inherit the promise, BY FAITH, not works

  • @GodLovesUs100

    How do you know you're in line with what the Bible claims? I can find, and know personally, many Catholic's who say they are in line with what the Bible claims. Many more Orthodox.

    How are you different?

  • @DopoNott there is a difference between cults twisting of scripture and just allowing scripture to interpret itself...again, I am not against the fact that God can reveal things to people, obviously, I am for it but if what they claim contradicts the Bible then we have a serious problem and we know that person is a liar.The word is clear many times.For example, it says to honor mother and father, so if one comes along saying not to, we know they;re a liar.

  • @GodLovesUs100

    cults twisting Scripture? You mean like Protestantism?

  • @GodLovesUs100

    Contradicts your interpretation and OPINION of the Bible. What they believe for them is substantiated often by the same verses that you use to claim they are false.

    So how do you know your are properly examining yourself? How do you know you line up with Scripture?

    And why do you believe the Bible in the first place?

  • @DopoNotte It's not my own interpretation, scripture is clear on many things, on things that are not so clear, we have God we can call upon and meditate on for understanding.Again, I sorry if you cannot see where I am coming from...May the Lord grant you understanding.

  • @GodLovesUs100

    And how do you know when you meditate and call upon God to give you the answer, it's God actually giving you the answer?

    Again the answer is simple: it's faith.

  • @GodLovesUs100

    You believe you can call upon God to give you guidance and the Spirit of Truth and read the Bible etc etc b/c of your FAITH.

    Once you realize this, we can move on.

  • @GodLovesUs100

    I am sure there are many evangelicals who converted to RCC who share a very similar life story to yours: that they see amazing differences in their lives! They see the Power of God in RCC!

    So what exactly is the difference between your story and an evangelical who converts to RCC?

    NOTHING