Some of you are right in your posts and a little research would have given you the answer. Grand Master Shimabuku filmed all the kata during this 1966 visit as a visual "text book" if you will to record a standard for American students. I believe this was his last visit to the USA. These videos weren't intended to be a performance of powerful kata but instead shown so they could be recorded and yes he was sick during the filming. Isshin ryu productions has a digitalized DVD edition of these for
Any sensei would proabably agree that being sick is no reason to show your students a sloppy kata. However, neither is using techical differences to depreciate another man's artistic expression.
Everyones kata is different (or you have no personality). If you are worried that this man's kata is ineffective for techinical reasons, then adapt it to your own preference. I guarantee that neither one of you wrote this kata, so I really don't see what the difference is. Kata is a form of artistic expression so enjoy it, or don't watch it. If he was in a fight, he would be moving a lot differently, as do you and your katas. If you want to teach people, get a dojo and show them your way.
@juacimm This is the grandmaster of isshinryu. It is highly doubtful that he did the kata wrong, since he is the one who modified it for isshinryu. It is much more likely that you simply learned it in a different way. Its only natural that kata change over time; afterall, what use is an art that doesn't evolve with the times? However, that is no reason for you to show disrespect to the Grand Master.
@juacimm You do realize this is Grand Master Shimabuku, right? The man who invented Isshin-Ryu. Yes, it is a bit sloppy, but if you look at alot of comments you'll see that the reason for this is because he was sick and didn't like being filmed.
@Sochinsensei was he sick? Thats what you and a few others keep saying youre saying this because you seen other people say that? I honestly dont know if he was or not
@786myfist Hey Chief if you pay attention to the end of a few of these katas from this roll of footage where it shows a few seconds after the kata like this one,Shimabuku Sensei wipes his nose,like at point 1:16 in this film,i herd my sensei tell stories about how sick Shimabuku Sensei was on his last couple of trips to the states,way before the invention of youtube.
@786myfist and i mean no disrespect to you,but also you have to figure the footage of Shimabuku Sensei was more than likely never meant to be a demo, as much as i believe in all actuality his American students wanted reference footage,and sick or not sick it serves as great reference footage because the technique is there even if he isn't squeezing power into it,I'm sure that if he had known that this was going to serve as a demo he would have put more power into it.
I believe in some of the vids ive seen of Tatsuo is that he wasnt always conscious of the camera filming him Ive seen this and ive seen him showing more focus than some of these vids in others
@jiggahippo what alot of people dont realize about a few of these vids of the master is that some were filmed when he was 'just doing kata' you know as you may see your sensei not doing 'tournament worthy kata' and wasnt aware that 45 yrs later it would be on something called youtube for people to critique and also when he was aware he was methodical in his movements breaking it down for those that see it can see what he is doing rather going blindingly fast blending it all together
@786myfist i c ur point but he knew it was being filmed so I would assume ONE would perform to his best, actually it should be perform at its best even in practice!
I don't think any kata or form is that deep. There is not hidden technique if you learn from a good teacher. If someone tells you there is mystery behind a form, the mystery comes from their lack of knowledge and good teaching. Katas and forms can be done at higher levels when one finds (through practice) balance and posture and finds where the power comes from in each technique. That is why practice is critical after you learn from someone with knowledge and who is willing to teach.
Actually, they were very concerned with making one thing look like another, adding philosophical depth and symbolism... in fact, teachers of old generally have three to five layers, roughly called the surface, the middle, and the inner. Sure, you could say there is no mystery once you are deep within, because it all seems natural, the only right way to actually do it... But the bottom line is that my comment was aimed at outsiders looking in.
I can appreciate your analysis. But the "basics" of power can even be learned through Seisan.--the things you say are translated from Sanchin to seisan. Good Stance, sinking, posture (alignment from feet through the spine and from the top of head), good footwork, bubbling well, relaxing shoulders (power not from there, and don't raise when strike), relax and tension (from beginning of the execution of technique to end), push pull, dan tien (internal power), proper breathing. etc.
@trytryagain2000 Let me say this very clearly. There is a mystery in the kata, the fact that one technique can be interpreted different ways is the mystery. sure the basics of power are there, but the real devastating techniques are what make kata so great. Most of the techniques that can be taken out of a kata aren't even done in the same stance. Its how you interpret a kata that makes the moves secret and that is why they are practiced.
@narutouzamaki9000 Are you telling me when some in the past, or even today, creates a kata and he/she does a technique, he does not know why he is doing the technique? I think in this style for a black belt test, the candidate must do a Kata he/she created. It would be a strange answer if the panel asks why a candidate stands a certain way and performs a technique a certain way, and the black belt candidate says "I don't know why". This is completely unacceptable.
Thus is the importance of lineage. If you want to learn an art, then lineage becomes important. Learning a Kata should not be a matter of interpretation, it should be a passing on of true and accurate knowledge.
@trytryagain2000 Ok again a kata was first made in Okinawa because they had to have a way of preserving knowledge in a way that couldn't be destroyed by fire. 2 the hidden techniques are called Bunkai, which means interpretation of techniques in a kata. Techniques which require interpreting the kata so one can learn the most devastating techniques.
Any Sensei or Sifu with whom I have had the honor of learning from have wanted to preserve their art through the honest teaching of the art. This is the way it has been for generations of the lineage. Stepping outside of the true lineage is when a teacher says there are secrets.
Whatever dude, I really could care less at this point. I am just restating what I was told by my Kyoshi, and our grandmaster. Bunkai is not stepping out of the lineage of the art it is discerning what the kata was originally meant to convey. But again whatever.
@narutouzamaki9000 Your Kyoshi is absolutely right. Bunkai is ESSENTIAL for any martial art. It isn't stepping out of the lineage of the martial art, but rather is going back to what it used to be. It is also what is used in battle and in fighting.
The bunkai is what helps all martial arts come together to form the one true martial art that started thousands of years ago in India (martial arts first developed there).
@hunthell Now see that is what I am talking about. I have been doing research on it though and what I am seeing from a lot of books is that the forms in Okinawa are adapted from many forms from mainland China and India. Shorin Ryu in particular is , according to what I have read, a mesh of many arts of the Shaolin Kung Fu fighting styles. I would believe it seeing as last night I saw a mesh in one of my classes between White Crane and a traditional S-Lock.
in 1958 a student of isshinryu karate took on a squad of paratroopers over 6 feet tall and muscle bound and only got a cut over his left eyebrow his friend was in the hospital on base the main paratrooper was telling the event to an MP when he walked close he said and there he isthe MP looked at the 5 foot 9 inch man and laught and walked away. If you want to think neg. about isshinryu karate thats your right but if you do you dont know isshinryu karate do you.
fighting is down to the individual not the style, furthermore a true martial artist looks at other styles to improve, or add to his skill, just as chojun miyagi did with hawaian wrestling implements such as kongoken for strengthening and gripping purposes.
Also consider the relationship between kata. Many young people in Isshinryu learn this kata as their first, spend a few years doing well with it, and then suddenly they learn sanchin, which is closely linked, and realize they have to go back and re-learn seisan all over again with the lessons from sanchin. I always love the look on their faces, because it reminds me of the shock I felt myself when it happened to me. "Wow... this is *way* deeper than I ever could have known!"
Um there are also alot of onkinawans that learned isshin ryu. He made change to Kyans seisan that he thought were improvments. Tighter , quicker stances and blocks more useul in the streets. He didnt just teach American Marianes. He was very popular on the island as a karate-ka. Hence his many native students
Indeed I find such criticisms puzzling because throughout its young history, a great many Okinawan martial artists acknowledged his ability.
Also, he himself told us that he was not all that creative or innovative... Perhaps some of the masters we have commenting negatively on his videos would remember the concept of henka? It's so important, I'm sure they do. The founder of Isshinryu didn't really "change" all that much, he simply used variations that were taught to him, but not often used.
Yes, but practicing fixed stances and movement gets you more used to proper technique. The more you practice it, the better the muscle memory, and the quicker you can make a move correctly in a fight. If you move quickly but incorrectly, or if you have to waste precious time thinking about doing it correctly, you're toast in a fight.
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Shimabuku made significant changes to this and all of his katas at the demands of the Okinawan Masters who did not want the American Marines to learn true Kihon and Kata. If you want to see the original Seisan that Shimabuku learned from Chotoku Kyan Sensei, type in "Kyan Seisan". It's a shame to see such a beautiful kata reduced to this.
i have a comment for Werqpi seisan is one of the first katas you learn your first kata will always be the hardest to learn, now idk whatorder you guys teach it but i have been doing karate for 9 years and seisan was my first kata to learn and it took me the longest because it is hard to learn the foot steps and the proper angles and stances just because it feels so new...as you continue with katas the amount of time you spend perfecting it is less and less because it becomes so natural.
Seisan kata. Balance, stepping, breathing, grabbing,pulling,upright,kicking,arm breaks, throws, nerve strikes, back-fists ,knee break. As you step in seisan kicking low to nerve points in shin area, stepping behind and throwing, stepping on foot and pushing back. Step toe to heel,shoulder width. Isshinsense on youtube.
No offense, but this is a really basic kata. If it took you your whole life to learn it and get to an average level, I can't imagine how hard it would be for you to learn 7 more. And the 4 weapons katas.
i agree with werqpi. this was the first kata we learn at my school (besides a kata called Datchi no kata)and everyone gets it pretty quick. in fact i'm using this kata and naihunchi kata for my blackbelt test in a month
actually to learn the sequence isnt that hard but perfecting it is the problem. anyone can repeat the moves in the correct order but unless you work on the details its nowhere near perfect. ive been practicing it for a little over two years now and i know im nowhere near perfect. because its about technique not necessarily sequence. so think a bit before you criticize.
When you put it like that, I think I'm going to take my kata moves apart and practice them one at a time and slowly build it back till I have a much more refined technique. That way I'll be able to work out the little bugs.
A lot of people learn the sequence and practice a couple times per day, but never truly master it. I would venture that you have not even seen all of the "tip of the iceberg" yet.
These kata is *very* deep, and xStarlaxD's comment actually shows a lot of wisdom. (And is probably a massive understatement!) You can spend your whole life on one and everyone else will call you a master, but you still feel like you are "just okay." That is when you know you are on the right path.
It does seem really wird to see it done so...maybe the right word is choppy? But it is a demo and he had to do it nice and slow. Demo aspects aside I'd have to say if it isn't perfect its as close as it could get. I don't see anything wrong right away. This is one of my favorite Katas I've learned so far and its nice to see him do it, even if it is just a demo.
Isshinryu is made to be more natural movements. He also had to slow down his movements for the "primitive" film speed at that time. He is also at an advanced age. This is also a DEMONSTRATION, people are supposed to learn from these videos. Please think about these things before judging his performance.
Yeah, my teacher told me he was tired when he made these. For a man who could allegedly nail nails into wood with his bare hands, do you think thats his best kata? Besides, it is a demonstration.
It was said that he was sick when these videos were taken, so this may be the reason. Plus, my sensei says that his katas were not that good looking in the first place. Lol. Even though he did develop the system.
Okay, I don't mean to give disrespect the Grand Master of the Karate I practice and love, but am I the only one who thinks he did this a bit.. lazily? He didn't seem to put much effort into the movements.. even letting his guard down a few times, and he just seemed tired. Obviously he is old, and moving slowly and the like is expected, but still. He is the Grand Master, is he not?
Weird, i see the opposite of what you are saying. first of all, this is a demonstration video. what good is it to learn the moves if he is doing it at least speed? he is being very slow and methodical, note his back is very tense, his steps are very balanced, he holds his knee after the kick. it is very disciplined. don't expect to see fancy van damme moves from this style. the true art of the kata is understanding the power of the basics used in combination with each other on four sides.
I guess I have to wait till I have more trained eyes like yourself, because I'm not seeing it. I'll show my Sensei the video, but I doubt his opinion won't be any different than yours. I also didn't realize this was just a demonstration video. I suppose if he was presenting the kata to a panel of judges (though.. that wouldn't really make too much sense) he would have put a bit more pep into it?
inorder to judge him, someone would have to be of a higher belt rank, heh heh. anyways I can understand what you are saying from a view point. try doing the kata exactly the way he is doing it, you will understand a little bit more. It probably does not help that there is no audio to this, so perception wise it's does not seem very effective.
@balrog919 Bruce lee moved so fasts that he had to slow his movements down for the camera this is an old video with an old camera,first rule to karate is to be respectful to your masters perhaps you missed that?
@balrog919 if you hear the backstory, this video was taken while he was kinda sick, and its been said that shimabuku didnt like being filmed doing karate. so he did it lazily to show the filmer what he felt like cause he probably didnt want to in the first place.
@worriedbanana not only that though Master Shimabuku may have been drunk on wine (sake) here too he liked to drink lol, but he was a very knowledgable man from what ive heard
@balrog919 - ever stop to think that he is not trying to go full speed/full power, but perhaps is just lightly going through the motions for sake of teaching, slowing down the moves so they are easier watched and observed for the edification of the student?
@balrog919 Soo im the Grandson of the current Grand Master Ed McGrath .... my only thought is that he is performing the Kata this way so the camera will capture all of his movements... there is no way the cameras back then would capture half of his movements is he did it full intensity.
@balrog919 Soo im the Grandson of the current Grand Master Ed McGrath .... my thought is that he is performing the Kata this way so the camera will capture all of his movements... there is no way the cameras back then would capture half of his movements is he did it full intensity. and he is sick with the flu in this video... he specifically said he did not want to do the recording because he wasn't feeling good but everyone asked him to do it anyway so we could have a video record of him.
I am an Isshinryu practitioner for over 20 years, and yes we do the katas the same way as Shimabuko Sensei, we try to keep it as original as possible. It is amazing to see other people change the katas just to fancy it up or what. we were told to never add to the kata, you suppose to take from it not add to it. so many different variations of the same katas. Isshinryu karate should be more united as one. Shimabuko must turning in his grave to see people change the katas.
it is great to hear somebody practicing isshin ryu in the "traditional" way. However I do not see sensei shimabuku turning in his grave over the varations of the moves over the years. He was a revolutionary by doing just that, by taking shorin ryu and goju ryu and streamlining it, making it more effecient and powerful. it is only natural to progress and improve (expand) the knowledge of the art. Although the style has changed over the years, it retains sensei's spirit of progression.
Glad to see some still follow a true form of okinawan martial arts. I have been in Isshinryu for 14yrs and am studying under Grandmaster Ed McGrath of the Don Nagle lineage. I personally do not change the kata's from the way Shimabuku executes them. For the person who said they get bored too quick. Karate not for them. Karate take dillegence and patience and dedication, not gymnastics
Which is why you might be good but you will never be a truly great fighter. That's okay though... I like all the anti-traditional feelings that people have these days, and I'm not going to bother trying to help you see the truth anymore. This way, everyone is sloppy and weak, and much easier for me to beat! That way I only have to concern myself with those few who see the truth behind classical methods.
there are difrent modes to preform a kata: fast, slow, strong, and performance. fast practices on reality fighting, slow practices perfection, strong practices strength, perfomances is mainly for competition. hopefuly when and if you have to use your katas on the street you will get a fast, perfect, strong kata.
I like to refer to his style as soft-hard style. You start off soft and create the power towards the end of the move. Akin to softly running your hand down someone's wrist and then doing a cold energy breath and using your momentum to strike or lock.
Relaxed performance is about kime, must know how to sink ki into ground. To practice Seisan stance relaxed, push wall with vertical fist, relax stance, sink ki into ground through bones. Relaxed punch is an iron palm, soft technique type thing.
are you sure the kata should not be practiced in this way. I find it excellent and very usefull to try and do kata in such a relaxed and calm way. you can see he has kime in every move and the potential for real force should he choose. this is very difficult to achieve and maintain the abscence of tension in the body. i think he was showing somthing special.
Hello, I have been in Isshinryu since '68. I do a very close version of seisan to this. Shimabuku is putting in varitations of technique in these katas. Seisan stance back foot turned out, get more reach to the technique...check it out. Depends on proximity of opponent...close sanchin foot turned in, medium seisan both feet straight, far away, back foot turned out.
TScheisskopf, indeed, he passed from this world not long afterward. Even in these videos, he had a severe cold... at one point he even wipes his nose! ;) He was perseuded to make them for far away students and future generations. Wow am I greatful!
Iocoyogui, Primero, esto era una demostración así que los estudiantes futuros pueden mirar y aprender. En segundo lugar, él utilizaba el "shuri-te". ¡Subsistencia que aprende, buen amigo!
JadyLester, please know that he was in "demonstration" mode. The whole point of recording him go through the kata in 1966 was so that it wouldn't be lost, and future karateka could learn from it.
As per Duessel sensei, when he made this video, he was getting rather old and had been through a bout of bad health. In fact, he really did not want to make these videos, so he made them to just show the movements.
Alguien que me diga porque hace el kata sin tanta contraccion muscular, tengo entendido que los kata se hacen sin tanta contraccion para que los musculos no quiten velocidad a la tecnica, pero me parece que lo hace totalmente relajado como si no estuviese peleando imaginariamente como se debe hacer creo que esta mal pero el que lo hace es nada mas y nada menos que Shimabukuro-sensei. Asi que quedo confundido
Some of you are right in your posts and a little research would have given you the answer. Grand Master Shimabuku filmed all the kata during this 1966 visit as a visual "text book" if you will to record a standard for American students. I believe this was his last visit to the USA. These videos weren't intended to be a performance of powerful kata but instead shown so they could be recorded and yes he was sick during the filming. Isshin ryu productions has a digitalized DVD edition of these for
stickvstick 4 months ago
Any sensei would proabably agree that being sick is no reason to show your students a sloppy kata. However, neither is using techical differences to depreciate another man's artistic expression.
ifounddeath 9 months ago
Everyones kata is different (or you have no personality). If you are worried that this man's kata is ineffective for techinical reasons, then adapt it to your own preference. I guarantee that neither one of you wrote this kata, so I really don't see what the difference is. Kata is a form of artistic expression so enjoy it, or don't watch it. If he was in a fight, he would be moving a lot differently, as do you and your katas. If you want to teach people, get a dojo and show them your way.
ifounddeath 9 months ago
this guy would have kicked anyone's ass around
evilrobotsanta 1 year ago
@juacimm This is the grandmaster of isshinryu. It is highly doubtful that he did the kata wrong, since he is the one who modified it for isshinryu. It is much more likely that you simply learned it in a different way. Its only natural that kata change over time; afterall, what use is an art that doesn't evolve with the times? However, that is no reason for you to show disrespect to the Grand Master.
cassisawesome1 1 year ago 4
its not what the kata look that counts its that you understand the movements and principles and i bet this guy did.
voimaapina 1 year ago
Wow thats wrong. This is one of my favorit kata and he uh... did it wrong. In the very beginning i could tell this guy didnt know what he was doing.
juacimm 1 year ago
@juacimm You do realize this is Grand Master Shimabuku, right? The man who invented Isshin-Ryu. Yes, it is a bit sloppy, but if you look at alot of comments you'll see that the reason for this is because he was sick and didn't like being filmed.
TehGuezt 1 year ago
I LOVE THIS KIND OF KARATE
sniperTHM 1 year ago
...something tells me I won't win any competitions performing like this. Still, I'm glad to have this as reference.
Shmior 1 year ago
This version is closest to Funakoshi's Seisan, which he later altered and re-named "Hangetsu".
Bassai 1 year ago
he was sick at 1:16 he wipes his nose
Sochinsensei 1 year ago
@Sochinsensei was he sick? Thats what you and a few others keep saying youre saying this because you seen other people say that? I honestly dont know if he was or not
786myfist 1 year ago
@786myfist Hey Chief if you pay attention to the end of a few of these katas from this roll of footage where it shows a few seconds after the kata like this one,Shimabuku Sensei wipes his nose,like at point 1:16 in this film,i herd my sensei tell stories about how sick Shimabuku Sensei was on his last couple of trips to the states,way before the invention of youtube.
Sochinsensei 1 year ago
@786myfist and i mean no disrespect to you,but also you have to figure the footage of Shimabuku Sensei was more than likely never meant to be a demo, as much as i believe in all actuality his American students wanted reference footage,and sick or not sick it serves as great reference footage because the technique is there even if he isn't squeezing power into it,I'm sure that if he had known that this was going to serve as a demo he would have put more power into it.
Sochinsensei 1 year ago
what disrespect could you be talking about? dont misunderstand its difficult to find Soke doing any kata with much focus
786myfist 1 year ago
I believe in some of the vids ive seen of Tatsuo is that he wasnt always conscious of the camera filming him Ive seen this and ive seen him showing more focus than some of these vids in others
786myfist 1 year ago
he looks lazy in his performace.
jiggahippo 1 year ago
@jiggahippo what alot of people dont realize about a few of these vids of the master is that some were filmed when he was 'just doing kata' you know as you may see your sensei not doing 'tournament worthy kata' and wasnt aware that 45 yrs later it would be on something called youtube for people to critique and also when he was aware he was methodical in his movements breaking it down for those that see it can see what he is doing rather going blindingly fast blending it all together
786myfist 1 year ago
@786myfist i c ur point but he knew it was being filmed so I would assume ONE would perform to his best, actually it should be perform at its best even in practice!
jiggahippo 1 year ago
it looks realy bad
chilango05 2 years ago
I don't think any kata or form is that deep. There is not hidden technique if you learn from a good teacher. If someone tells you there is mystery behind a form, the mystery comes from their lack of knowledge and good teaching. Katas and forms can be done at higher levels when one finds (through practice) balance and posture and finds where the power comes from in each technique. That is why practice is critical after you learn from someone with knowledge and who is willing to teach.
trytryagain2000 2 years ago
Actually, they were very concerned with making one thing look like another, adding philosophical depth and symbolism... in fact, teachers of old generally have three to five layers, roughly called the surface, the middle, and the inner. Sure, you could say there is no mystery once you are deep within, because it all seems natural, the only right way to actually do it... But the bottom line is that my comment was aimed at outsiders looking in.
mikhailrahl 2 years ago
I can appreciate your analysis. But the "basics" of power can even be learned through Seisan.--the things you say are translated from Sanchin to seisan. Good Stance, sinking, posture (alignment from feet through the spine and from the top of head), good footwork, bubbling well, relaxing shoulders (power not from there, and don't raise when strike), relax and tension (from beginning of the execution of technique to end), push pull, dan tien (internal power), proper breathing. etc.
trytryagain2000 2 years ago
@trytryagain2000 Let me say this very clearly. There is a mystery in the kata, the fact that one technique can be interpreted different ways is the mystery. sure the basics of power are there, but the real devastating techniques are what make kata so great. Most of the techniques that can be taken out of a kata aren't even done in the same stance. Its how you interpret a kata that makes the moves secret and that is why they are practiced.
narutouzamaki9000 2 years ago
@narutouzamaki9000 Are you telling me when some in the past, or even today, creates a kata and he/she does a technique, he does not know why he is doing the technique? I think in this style for a black belt test, the candidate must do a Kata he/she created. It would be a strange answer if the panel asks why a candidate stands a certain way and performs a technique a certain way, and the black belt candidate says "I don't know why". This is completely unacceptable.
trytryagain2000 2 years ago
Thus is the importance of lineage. If you want to learn an art, then lineage becomes important. Learning a Kata should not be a matter of interpretation, it should be a passing on of true and accurate knowledge.
trytryagain2000 2 years ago
@trytryagain2000 Ok again a kata was first made in Okinawa because they had to have a way of preserving knowledge in a way that couldn't be destroyed by fire. 2 the hidden techniques are called Bunkai, which means interpretation of techniques in a kata. Techniques which require interpreting the kata so one can learn the most devastating techniques.
narutouzamaki9000 2 years ago
Comment removed
trytryagain2000 2 years ago
Any Sensei or Sifu with whom I have had the honor of learning from have wanted to preserve their art through the honest teaching of the art. This is the way it has been for generations of the lineage. Stepping outside of the true lineage is when a teacher says there are secrets.
trytryagain2000 2 years ago
Whatever dude, I really could care less at this point. I am just restating what I was told by my Kyoshi, and our grandmaster. Bunkai is not stepping out of the lineage of the art it is discerning what the kata was originally meant to convey. But again whatever.
narutouzamaki9000 2 years ago
@narutouzamaki9000 Your Kyoshi is absolutely right. Bunkai is ESSENTIAL for any martial art. It isn't stepping out of the lineage of the martial art, but rather is going back to what it used to be. It is also what is used in battle and in fighting.
The bunkai is what helps all martial arts come together to form the one true martial art that started thousands of years ago in India (martial arts first developed there).
hunthell 1 year ago
@hunthell Now see that is what I am talking about. I have been doing research on it though and what I am seeing from a lot of books is that the forms in Okinawa are adapted from many forms from mainland China and India. Shorin Ryu in particular is , according to what I have read, a mesh of many arts of the Shaolin Kung Fu fighting styles. I would believe it seeing as last night I saw a mesh in one of my classes between White Crane and a traditional S-Lock.
narutouzamaki9000 1 year ago
Isshin Ryu practices the Shuri-te version of Seisan, Goju practices the Naha-te version of Seisan.
webslinger1 2 years ago
Comment removed
ruy123ofserenity 2 years ago
i made it up to my green belt
i got promoted when i was 9
then when i turned 10 i quit
annelise80 2 years ago
in 1958 a student of isshinryu karate took on a squad of paratroopers over 6 feet tall and muscle bound and only got a cut over his left eyebrow his friend was in the hospital on base the main paratrooper was telling the event to an MP when he walked close he said and there he isthe MP looked at the 5 foot 9 inch man and laught and walked away. If you want to think neg. about isshinryu karate thats your right but if you do you dont know isshinryu karate do you.
rock09lee 2 years ago
who was it? A.J?
786myfist 2 years ago
fighting is down to the individual not the style, furthermore a true martial artist looks at other styles to improve, or add to his skill, just as chojun miyagi did with hawaian wrestling implements such as kongoken for strengthening and gripping purposes.
singhakabuttar 2 years ago
anyone know where i can find instructions for standard? or a good video of standard? that's be really helpful :)
karatetiggerful 2 years ago
Also consider the relationship between kata. Many young people in Isshinryu learn this kata as their first, spend a few years doing well with it, and then suddenly they learn sanchin, which is closely linked, and realize they have to go back and re-learn seisan all over again with the lessons from sanchin. I always love the look on their faces, because it reminds me of the shock I felt myself when it happened to me. "Wow... this is *way* deeper than I ever could have known!"
mikhailrahl 2 years ago
Um there are also alot of onkinawans that learned isshin ryu. He made change to Kyans seisan that he thought were improvments. Tighter , quicker stances and blocks more useul in the streets. He didnt just teach American Marianes. He was very popular on the island as a karate-ka. Hence his many native students
VingTsun35 2 years ago
Indeed I find such criticisms puzzling because throughout its young history, a great many Okinawan martial artists acknowledged his ability.
Also, he himself told us that he was not all that creative or innovative... Perhaps some of the masters we have commenting negatively on his videos would remember the concept of henka? It's so important, I'm sure they do. The founder of Isshinryu didn't really "change" all that much, he simply used variations that were taught to him, but not often used.
mikhailrahl 2 years ago
there is also information that some people dont know he was sick when he did all of these katas
westgecko 2 years ago
Kata with no kime = dance.
s800cd 2 years ago
I hate fixed stances and movement..
Bruce Lee said be and flow like water..
things in real fighting change on a dime..
Damian1975 2 years ago
Yes, but practicing fixed stances and movement gets you more used to proper technique. The more you practice it, the better the muscle memory, and the quicker you can make a move correctly in a fight. If you move quickly but incorrectly, or if you have to waste precious time thinking about doing it correctly, you're toast in a fight.
edschmid123 2 years ago
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Exactly! This crap will get you killed in the real world!
talon115 2 years ago
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Shimabuku made significant changes to this and all of his katas at the demands of the Okinawan Masters who did not want the American Marines to learn true Kihon and Kata. If you want to see the original Seisan that Shimabuku learned from Chotoku Kyan Sensei, type in "Kyan Seisan". It's a shame to see such a beautiful kata reduced to this.
miguelmstewie 3 years ago
i have a comment for Werqpi seisan is one of the first katas you learn your first kata will always be the hardest to learn, now idk whatorder you guys teach it but i have been doing karate for 9 years and seisan was my first kata to learn and it took me the longest because it is hard to learn the foot steps and the proper angles and stances just because it feels so new...as you continue with katas the amount of time you spend perfecting it is less and less because it becomes so natural.
peytonmcatee13 3 years ago
i wn 1st in the state, 2 years in a row with this kata
devindude70 3 years ago
Seisan kata. Balance, stepping, breathing, grabbing,pulling,upright,kicking,arm breaks, throws, nerve strikes, back-fists ,knee break. As you step in seisan kicking low to nerve points in shin area, stepping behind and throwing, stepping on foot and pushing back. Step toe to heel,shoulder width. Isshinsense on youtube.
chrischerc 3 years ago
Think again much more to learn -Isshinsense
chrischerc 3 years ago
I agree! Step toe to heel,shoulder width
timheynen 3 years ago
it took me almost my whole life to learn this kata...now im pretty okay at it :]
xStarlaxD 3 years ago
No offense, but this is a really basic kata. If it took you your whole life to learn it and get to an average level, I can't imagine how hard it would be for you to learn 7 more. And the 4 weapons katas.
Werqpi 3 years ago
i agree with werqpi. this was the first kata we learn at my school (besides a kata called Datchi no kata)and everyone gets it pretty quick. in fact i'm using this kata and naihunchi kata for my blackbelt test in a month
MST3KTheUndead 3 years ago
actually to learn the sequence isnt that hard but perfecting it is the problem. anyone can repeat the moves in the correct order but unless you work on the details its nowhere near perfect. ive been practicing it for a little over two years now and i know im nowhere near perfect. because its about technique not necessarily sequence. so think a bit before you criticize.
mehavdatudont 3 years ago
When you put it like that, I think I'm going to take my kata moves apart and practice them one at a time and slowly build it back till I have a much more refined technique. That way I'll be able to work out the little bugs.
142CRASH 2 years ago
A lot of people learn the sequence and practice a couple times per day, but never truly master it. I would venture that you have not even seen all of the "tip of the iceberg" yet.
These kata is *very* deep, and xStarlaxD's comment actually shows a lot of wisdom. (And is probably a massive understatement!) You can spend your whole life on one and everyone else will call you a master, but you still feel like you are "just okay." That is when you know you are on the right path.
mikhailrahl 2 years ago
nice lil snot blow at the end
steveo451 3 years ago
It does seem really wird to see it done so...maybe the right word is choppy? But it is a demo and he had to do it nice and slow. Demo aspects aside I'd have to say if it isn't perfect its as close as it could get. I don't see anything wrong right away. This is one of my favorite Katas I've learned so far and its nice to see him do it, even if it is just a demo.
KayaTetsu 3 years ago
Isshinryu is made to be more natural movements. He also had to slow down his movements for the "primitive" film speed at that time. He is also at an advanced age. This is also a DEMONSTRATION, people are supposed to learn from these videos. Please think about these things before judging his performance.
sihtdidmaS 3 years ago
this video is pretty cool i study isshinryu and ive only memorized the seisan kata all the way to teh first arm break
razrblade12345 3 years ago
Yeah, my teacher told me he was tired when he made these. For a man who could allegedly nail nails into wood with his bare hands, do you think thats his best kata? Besides, it is a demonstration.
slugma123 3 years ago
It was said that he was sick when these videos were taken, so this may be the reason. Plus, my sensei says that his katas were not that good looking in the first place. Lol. Even though he did develop the system.
DanteMoodyFilms 3 years ago
Okay, I don't mean to give disrespect the Grand Master of the Karate I practice and love, but am I the only one who thinks he did this a bit.. lazily? He didn't seem to put much effort into the movements.. even letting his guard down a few times, and he just seemed tired. Obviously he is old, and moving slowly and the like is expected, but still. He is the Grand Master, is he not?
balrog919 4 years ago 4
Weird, i see the opposite of what you are saying. first of all, this is a demonstration video. what good is it to learn the moves if he is doing it at least speed? he is being very slow and methodical, note his back is very tense, his steps are very balanced, he holds his knee after the kick. it is very disciplined. don't expect to see fancy van damme moves from this style. the true art of the kata is understanding the power of the basics used in combination with each other on four sides.
666khaos 4 years ago
I guess I have to wait till I have more trained eyes like yourself, because I'm not seeing it. I'll show my Sensei the video, but I doubt his opinion won't be any different than yours. I also didn't realize this was just a demonstration video. I suppose if he was presenting the kata to a panel of judges (though.. that wouldn't really make too much sense) he would have put a bit more pep into it?
balrog919 4 years ago
inorder to judge him, someone would have to be of a higher belt rank, heh heh. anyways I can understand what you are saying from a view point. try doing the kata exactly the way he is doing it, you will understand a little bit more. It probably does not help that there is no audio to this, so perception wise it's does not seem very effective.
666khaos 4 years ago
@balrog919 Bruce lee moved so fasts that he had to slow his movements down for the camera this is an old video with an old camera,first rule to karate is to be respectful to your masters perhaps you missed that?
666Angelfuck 1 year ago
@balrog919 if you hear the backstory, this video was taken while he was kinda sick, and its been said that shimabuku didnt like being filmed doing karate. so he did it lazily to show the filmer what he felt like cause he probably didnt want to in the first place.
worriedbanana 1 year ago
@worriedbanana not only that though Master Shimabuku may have been drunk on wine (sake) here too he liked to drink lol, but he was a very knowledgable man from what ive heard
786myfist 9 months ago
@balrog919 its cause he was sick and didnt like being filmed.
worriedbanana 1 year ago
@balrog919 I'd say you have a Shotokanish view of Karate, which is not the traditional ( unlike JKA says on its Web).
Lazy because he isnt quick and explosive? He's not too old, i don'd see many wrinkles on his face...
Maybe nowadays they spoilt the true training methods? the effective ones, practicing the explosive, impressive bueautiful but sterile varieties??
Not a statement though... Just Food For though.
LeComte13 11 months ago
@balrog919 - ever stop to think that he is not trying to go full speed/full power, but perhaps is just lightly going through the motions for sake of teaching, slowing down the moves so they are easier watched and observed for the edification of the student?
irshjewboi 9 months ago
@balrog919 Soo im the Grandson of the current Grand Master Ed McGrath .... my only thought is that he is performing the Kata this way so the camera will capture all of his movements... there is no way the cameras back then would capture half of his movements is he did it full intensity.
lihothand 8 months ago
@balrog919 Soo im the Grandson of the current Grand Master Ed McGrath .... my thought is that he is performing the Kata this way so the camera will capture all of his movements... there is no way the cameras back then would capture half of his movements is he did it full intensity. and he is sick with the flu in this video... he specifically said he did not want to do the recording because he wasn't feeling good but everyone asked him to do it anyway so we could have a video record of him.
lihothand 8 months ago
@balrog919 No in fact he is so awesome that this video is actually being played at 1/3 of the speed it was recorded. Eh? Eh? Eh?
chuckhorneatcorn 5 months ago
Was his manner of spitting and drinking hard or soft?
EmbracedGoodbye 4 years ago
His name is spelled wrong in the description. It's "Shimabuku," not Shimabukuro.
brenp1022 4 years ago
Well, I guess you can spell it either way. But I've never seen it that way.
brenp1022 4 years ago
I am an Isshinryu practitioner for over 20 years, and yes we do the katas the same way as Shimabuko Sensei, we try to keep it as original as possible. It is amazing to see other people change the katas just to fancy it up or what. we were told to never add to the kata, you suppose to take from it not add to it. so many different variations of the same katas. Isshinryu karate should be more united as one. Shimabuko must turning in his grave to see people change the katas.
kusanku01 4 years ago
it is great to hear somebody practicing isshin ryu in the "traditional" way. However I do not see sensei shimabuku turning in his grave over the varations of the moves over the years. He was a revolutionary by doing just that, by taking shorin ryu and goju ryu and streamlining it, making it more effecient and powerful. it is only natural to progress and improve (expand) the knowledge of the art. Although the style has changed over the years, it retains sensei's spirit of progression.
666khaos 4 years ago
Glad to see some still follow a true form of okinawan martial arts. I have been in Isshinryu for 14yrs and am studying under Grandmaster Ed McGrath of the Don Nagle lineage. I personally do not change the kata's from the way Shimabuku executes them. For the person who said they get bored too quick. Karate not for them. Karate take dillegence and patience and dedication, not gymnastics
brandennbrittni 4 years ago
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Too slow =\ got boring real fast.
empiricist93 4 years ago
Which is why you might be good but you will never be a truly great fighter. That's okay though... I like all the anti-traditional feelings that people have these days, and I'm not going to bother trying to help you see the truth anymore. This way, everyone is sloppy and weak, and much easier for me to beat! That way I only have to concern myself with those few who see the truth behind classical methods.
mikhailrahl 4 years ago
Nice!
ShinpoKobudo1 4 years ago 2
there are difrent modes to preform a kata: fast, slow, strong, and performance. fast practices on reality fighting, slow practices perfection, strong practices strength, perfomances is mainly for competition. hopefuly when and if you have to use your katas on the street you will get a fast, perfect, strong kata.
larv5 4 years ago
I like to refer to his style as soft-hard style. You start off soft and create the power towards the end of the move. Akin to softly running your hand down someone's wrist and then doing a cold energy breath and using your momentum to strike or lock.
HERMESTHRICEGREATEST 4 years ago
"hard-soft style" is the system know as goju ryu =] just thought i would put that out there
storeboughtsmilex 4 years ago
If back foot in Seisan is turned out you will bet more reach with that same side reverse punch. Just making clear.
isshin68 4 years ago
Relaxed performance is about kime, must know how to sink ki into ground. To practice Seisan stance relaxed, push wall with vertical fist, relax stance, sink ki into ground through bones. Relaxed punch is an iron palm, soft technique type thing.
isshin68 4 years ago
are you sure the kata should not be practiced in this way. I find it excellent and very usefull to try and do kata in such a relaxed and calm way. you can see he has kime in every move and the potential for real force should he choose. this is very difficult to achieve and maintain the abscence of tension in the body. i think he was showing somthing special.
tummayo 4 years ago
Hello, I have been in Isshinryu since '68. I do a very close version of seisan to this. Shimabuku is putting in varitations of technique in these katas. Seisan stance back foot turned out, get more reach to the technique...check it out. Depends on proximity of opponent...close sanchin foot turned in, medium seisan both feet straight, far away, back foot turned out.
isshin68 4 years ago
I go to Joslins, any viewers here go too?
GothicTrioOfEdwards 4 years ago
TScheisskopf, indeed, he passed from this world not long afterward. Even in these videos, he had a severe cold... at one point he even wipes his nose! ;) He was perseuded to make them for far away students and future generations. Wow am I greatful!
mikhailrahl 4 years ago
Iocoyogui, Primero, esto era una demostración así que los estudiantes futuros pueden mirar y aprender. En segundo lugar, él utilizaba el "shuri-te". ¡Subsistencia que aprende, buen amigo!
mikhailrahl 4 years ago
JadyLester, please know that he was in "demonstration" mode. The whole point of recording him go through the kata in 1966 was so that it wouldn't be lost, and future karateka could learn from it.
mikhailrahl 4 years ago
Aha! This is the kata I've been looking for! He didn't seem very into it, did he?
JadyLester 4 years ago
As per Duessel sensei, when he made this video, he was getting rather old and had been through a bout of bad health. In fact, he really did not want to make these videos, so he made them to just show the movements.
TScheisskopf 4 years ago
Alguien que me diga porque hace el kata sin tanta contraccion muscular, tengo entendido que los kata se hacen sin tanta contraccion para que los musculos no quiten velocidad a la tecnica, pero me parece que lo hace totalmente relajado como si no estuviese peleando imaginariamente como se debe hacer creo que esta mal pero el que lo hace es nada mas y nada menos que Shimabukuro-sensei. Asi que quedo confundido
locoyogui 5 years ago