So I'm reading through the top rated comments, one say's this music came "directly" from God, the other said this music came from a brilliant man, but a "man" nonetheless.
J.S. Bach wrote these pieces for his love, and devotion to God. I believe Bach was tremendously inspired by God (however you may define). Many of his works have "Soli Deo Gloria" (to the glory of God alone). J.S. Bach wrote that on the sheet music he wrote these pieces on.
When I moved into my house, it had in it's barn a partially functioning pipe organ. I was thrilled to hear of this. Two weeks later I had learned my parents had it removed for scrap and for a small profit at that. I was crushed inside but now it is a goal in my life to once again come into possession of one of these beautiful instruments.
This sound is my ear's and minds favorite. Piano is my second favorite. I wished I could own pipe organ, wow, I would never stop playing it and learning about it. Heavenly instrument!
I had a very strange experience on first listening to this man, last night. One might call it an out of the body experience, because the music literally lifted out of my own body. It was very very surreal, as if the room I was sitting in faded away and all I could hear was this organ music - which to my mind, was very eerie, yet very very beautiful. Anyway, I digress, it is amazing to me how the human beings can learn to play such instruments in such an amazing way.
Maybe some of you can help me out here. The heal toe pedalboard method is referred to. Elsewhere on you tube people say that playing just with the toe is wrong. Am I right in thinking the use of the heal became popular in 19th century when the concave radiating pedal board was introduced. (I believe this was Invented by the Hull (English) firm of organ builders - Forster & Andrews. This being the case the heal method would not have been used in Bach's day.?
Back in Bach's time. He would just use the toes. When i play Bach i raise the pedal board and just use toes. if you look at the vidio of the toccata and fugue in F major played at the st. thomas church. where back played. you will see it demonstated. It changes the whole piece.!
Just to add another comment. This video demonstrates the correct tempo for this piece of Bach. The music can breath! Often you will see performers playing Bach as if they were in a race against time.
Most would probably wonder why in the world you'd want to wear sunglasses in a church, but it's when you play as awesome as this guy that people stop to care...
John Scott Whitely is the assistant organist organist at The Cathedral & Metropolitan Church of St. Peter in York (official title) otherwise more commonly known as York Minster, England, it is therefore both a Cathedral & Minster. Great video and performance from a top class organist who is in my opinion a traditionalist when he plays JSB?
Could you anybody tell me, why he plays thema of the fugue at the Hauptwerk? Several seconds later he plays all at the Rückpositiv. Or is this record an editing version?
pause at 32 seconds all you non organists- Look at the bottom keyboard- notice the last 2 black keys? See the extra short keys next to them.
Now correct me if I am wrong organ scholars (I am trying to become one!) Are those for the Meantone temperament? These were special keys so you can play certain chords in this tuning. It was different back then and certain chords sounded bad because the way the organ is tuned.
No, "short octave" is at the Hauptwerk, Oberwerk and Brustwerk (2., 3., 4. manual). At the Rückpositiv (1. manual), there is a "broken octave", no "short octave".
Simply brilliant in composition and performance. Such thoughts are almost inexpressible outside of music. There is an exaltation of the spirit of majesty in this splendid sound. The visual counterparts also add depth and dimension to our understanding of fine instruments and timeless music.
There are plenty of good colleges out there. If you're in the US, try for Westminster Choir College, Juilliard, Eastman, and Oberlin. Oh, and Curtis Institute of Music. At Westminster the teachers are Ken Cowan, Alan Morrison, Dr. Matthew Lewis, and Steve Pilkington. Julliard you have Paul Jacobs. I'm not sure about Eastman or Oberlin anymore, but Alan Morrison is also at Curtis in Philly.
Taken from the BBC series 'Twenty First Century Bach'. We have had two series of John Scott Whitelely playing Bach on German Organs, and we look forward to further series soon!
This organ is tuned in Neidhardt well tempered system (unequal) with high pitch (higher than Corton), exactly like the Waalse Kerk organ of Amsterdam by Christian Mueller.
That's typical of the mature, late Baroque era; Neidhardt I system, an evolution of Werckmeister III, is also fine for Chamber Music.
Was Neidhardt I not called "Für ein Dorf" "for a village?" and that should be for better people? For what reason was "für eine Stadt" or "für eine große Stadt"???
Neidhardt system is sweeter but less pure than Werckmeister, that's the reason of its success in small villages organs for peasants taste; the best examples of medium-big organs tempered in Neidhardt are the Waalse Kerk one by Mueller in Amsterdam, the Hildebrandt one in Naumburg and some others less famous always from the late Baroque era...
F.C. Schnitger used to temper in a better way than Neidhardt (even his famous Alkmaar St. Laurenskerk organ was tempered in F.C. Schnitger system, the story of the equal temperament is the biggest lie of the history, the contract never specified the real temperament and for Frans Caspar was natural to use a personal system mixing both Werckmeister and Neidhardt, as proved from his famous Groningen Martinikerk masterpiece)...
Sorry, I meant the Hildebrandt one in Naumburg (tempered in Neidhardt).
This Arp Schnitger masterpiece of Jacobi Kerk in Hamburg is tempered with a 1/5 Comma Mean Tone system with a very mild wolf (almost non-existent) with Cornet tone.
This organ is in tune. It's tuned to 1/5th Somme mean tone or 1/6th I know it's not 1/4 comma. back when this organ was built there was really no such thing as "equal temperament" until Bach came around. I guess you are not exposed to unequal temperament instruments that much...
the question is whether the temperament is suitable for the piece... the bits in D major sound fine, but when it goes into B minor etc. it becomes more dodgy because you have B flat when you need A sharp.
Then there is some justification for saying it is 'out of tune' because it is being played in keys for which the tuning system was not intended.
But we must remember Bach wrote this when he was young..... I think of this as Bach's way to get instruments in the well tempered temperament....... B minor is actually a better key... Take the Luneberg prelude and fugue by Bach there are parts in the fugue that are chromatic and the sound is incredible in a hair splitting way... Not to say it's bad bu the sound this fugue makes is extraordinary when it goes into strange keys like F# major and c# minor. It is incredible that he would risk that!!
John Scott Whiteley is blind ins't he ? ANd what's the deal with the organ iy's not tuned right at all.Otherwise the whole thing is in E major and not the original key.
E' perfetto. Altro che Koopman, questa NON E' LENTO, E' PERFETTO. Siete voi che siete cretini. L'interpretazione è perfetta, poi che dire della scelta dei registri! Ottimo, 5 stelle.
Ma mi faccia il piacere e smetta di chiamare inutilmente la gente "cretini"...
Questo obeso impacciato di un organista è un totale incompetente, nei quattro dvd che ha registrato, sono state corrette elettronicamente centinaia di errori ed imprecisioni ed è ben risaputo come per prepararsi per queste incisioni costui abbia studiato proprio con Koopman e Christoph Wolff!
Il massimo che questo goffo trippone può fare è esattamente prendere lezioni da Koopman e togliersi tanto di cappello...
Intanto la faccia finita di offendere gratuitamente artisti senza dubbio più competenti di lei. Il trippone sarà qualcun altro, impacciato sarà lei. Mi riporti ove è attestato ufficialmente che il Sig. quivi vitato è stato corretto elettronicamente nelle sue esecuzioni. Koopman nel suo sfrenato filologismo corre come un matto. Almeno il Sig. quivi citato è coerente con sé stesso.
Sentite da che pulpito giunge la predica, proprio Lei ha il coraggio di parlare di offese! Nei Suoi commenti sfoggia un'arroganza ingiustificata, condita da insulti gratuiti che dimostrano solo la Sua acredine nei confronti di ciò che non gradisce e non comprende (e non faccio certo riferimento a quel buffone ciarlatano di Fox).
Si compri il set completo dei quattro citati Dvd e se possiede un briciolo di orecchio da audiofilo ci arriverà da solo.
Poi si guardi il documentario del montaggio in studio e vedrà che è lo stesso JS Whiteley a correggere in studio le proprie innumerevoli cattive note.
Spiacente di infrangere tale nascente, falso mito...
Se poi ha ancora il dente avvelenato per Walcha e Richter, è palese come costoro fossero solo dei pionieri amatori con lacune abissali.
In epoca Barocca, Walcha, Richter e compagnia vetusta, obsoleta e bella, sarebbero stati considerati dei meri principianti; oggi sono solo dei gradevoli anticipatori, intrisi di Romantici anacronismi.
Ciò che Lei chiama Filologia è semplicemente ciò che non Le garba ed arbitrariamente non accetta.
Non ho la pretesa d'innalzare Richter o chi vuole lei ad unico perfetto esecutore, tant'è che accetto anche le esecuzioni di Leonardth, e quelle del Sig. Whiteley, diversamente da lei.
Richter, Walcha e Ramin sono a mio parere i migliori del Novecento ad aver capito cosa fosse Bach; lei li condanna solo perché non ha conosciuto bene la loro interpretazione.
Quel che non mi piace io lo evito; lei invece osa anche offenderlo.
Ritengo che l'impertinente sia lei, che va continuamente sparando a zero su persone che operano percorsi musicali veramente lodevoli. Il Sig. Whiteley ha un ottimo senso musicale, interpretando l'opera bachiana in modo assai gradevole e musicale, senza sfociare nel più languente romanticismo. Lei si permette di criticare persone che non corrispondono al suo stereotipo, il M° Koopman, che ha assunto come fondamento ed exemplum univoco da applicare su qualsiasi cosa. (continua)
Mi scusi, Le ricordo cortesemente che le migliaia di Cd, vinili e DVD vari che compongono la mia pluridecennale collezione, sono solo per una infinitesimale parte composti da incisioni di Koopman.
Il Sig. Whiteley è bravo, non è perfetto, ha preso ad esempio e studiato la Decoratio e la Retorica Barocca di Koopman, la Filologia di Wolff e le ha condite con un rubato di stampo Galante-Romantico.
Non si giudica un organista solo dalle registrazioni. Secondo me (è solo un'opinione) Koopman è troppo freddo e corre troppo, tuttavia meglio lui di quelli che suonano Bach tutto legato (e questo né Richter, né Walcha, né Ramin lo facebvno).
Rogg è conosciuto per il suo moderno ultra-legato, cantabile e ciò non mi piace molto.
Ramin e Walcha erano dei teoreti, presentavano delle personali, astratte rappresentazioni di un ipotetico Bach che non esiste, il Bach puro, incorrotto, un Bach siderale, asettico, oltre il tempo e lo spazio.
Ciò avvicina la loro visione al paradosso chiamato Glenn Gould.
Potremmo chiamarlo "Bach secondo l'Autismo", o "Bach in un mondo senza Luce", ovverosia, il Bach di coloro i quali si chiudono in un mondo interiore, immaginario, non reale, artificiale...
Ripeto, JSW è bravo ma non è un virtuoso e nemmeno un esperto e possiede una cultura in materia Antica che non può nemmeno essere paragonata a quella di Koopman.
Io non evito nessuno, ascolto avidamente tutto e non offendo mai:
esprimo pareri e fondatamente li motivo, non proferisco mere volgarità od offese insensate.
Koopman ha una cultura in materia Antica, semplicemente immensa, a 360 gradi; io sono un Umanista, un Letterato, un Filosofo ed un filologo-musicologo, per passione e per preparazione accademica, ecco cosa ci avvicina.
Egli sa fondere l'accademismo, la virtuosità e la musicalità, in un perfetto equilibrio.
Koopman disprezza coloro i quali, poveri velleitari, pensano di saper suonare come Bach...
...Egli ritiene che al massimo si possa aspirare ad essere dei buoni studenti, al pari di quelli che Bach apprezzava.
La Musica è Arte nel senso antico, quale espressione delle Muse, non è sufficiente studiare le note, bisogna comprendere il Tutto: Arti Visive, Architettura, Letteratura, Filosofia, Musica, Retorica, Religione e molto di più, solo così ci si potrà avvicinare ad una precisa epoca...
...Koopman è un uomo completo, Rinascimentale, non un mero musicista che si basa su idee pre-confezionate e spicciole utopie "Urtext", egli è uno dei pochi a spingersi oltre le semplici barriere dell'accademismo da obsoleto Conservatorio.
Koopman fa "vivere" i manoscritti che incessantemente va ricercando per tutta l'Europa, non li "fossilizza" in sterili interpretazioni da museo o in vacui esibizionismi.
I think in this case slower is better. I've heard many a rushed performance of this one. It's a great showpiece but this performance is clear and deliberate and consistantly well phrased. Other times this piece sounds cool revved up and taken faster assuming the organist is capeable of taking it at speed. This one's good. However I think a bit more change of colour here and there in the first 80% of the fugue would be a good move.
Whilst we're mentioning registrations I often play 582 on a plenum. If I want to show off what I can do with an organ's variety, I do this:
Start on 16/8 pedals and 8/4/2 Principals. Play 1. Remove 2' for 2. Remove 4 for 3 and play RH solo on 8 with a 8' flute in LH a 2 clav. 4 on 8'4' flute with 8' string for a bit of twang. 5 back on 8/4/2 same as 1. Add Tierce for 6 and a Quint for 7 and 8. On a 2nd manual set on 8/4 flutes play 9.
10 Starting at the high C, solo on the registration for VII keeping LH on the flutes. Back to 8/4/2 for 12 (took ages to get that one right). 13 on flutes, 14-15 on solo 8'P vs 8' flute. 16 on 8/4/2. 17, 18, and 19 add all mutations step by step, 20 on full organ.
Then the fugue: Drop down to 8/4/2/Mix. At the end of the first pedal entry use 2nd manual set on a pair of flutes. Change back at the next pedal entry. Add all reeds after the pause and the Neapolitan 6th leaving a 32' off until the Adagio.
Yes I on;y do toes never heel ever! Thats what I do! Speaking of the Passicaglia the variation that sounds kind of twinkly like. 2 variations before the triplets I like an 8 flute with a 1 and 2 flute then you supride the audience and blast away.
I actually would pull the 16 reed when it goes inyo F minor but I have not leaned it yet I am working on the Luneberg Prelude though it has taken me about 3 days to get where I am I can almost play it...
Mate, that fugue is difficult enough to play without mucking around with the stops as well. It doesn't stop.
Even Richter seems to leave well alone.
If you want a nice showstopping prelude to sight read, BWV 549 is good. The other prelude and fugue in C minor is a great play as well but that's difficult to pull off musically because of the phrase lengths.
Krebs - not really. Buxtehude is nice - some exciting preludes there.
Occasionally I get a page turner to muck around with the odd stop or 2 but I try not to - it's not authentic, there was already someone having to blow the organ and it's unfeasible to suggest they might have another organ assistant.
The greatest genius of the history of organ music is Diderik Buxtehude. Bach is the most perfect composer for organ, JS Bach took it to the highest perfection and evolution.
But without Buxtehude, Bach would have been very different from as we know him today.
Buxtehude is the most bold, original, crazy genius. He is Stylus Phantasticus at its apotheosis.
True about Buxtehude.... Did you know that all of the churches he was organist had the organs tuned in meantone until he left or died that explains why Bux. in Meantone sounds so incredible!
Never really heard any of luebecks music...
Bruhns prelude in G major is so much fun to listen to. What is your personal favorite?
During Buxtehude life, the pure 4th comma Mean Tone was already quite out of fashion; the wider Mean tone, the 5th comma one, with a very mild wolf, was the new standard. That was the temperament that we find today in the Schnitger organs of St. Cosmae in Stade and in St. Ludgeri in Norden.
The 70-80% of the works of Buxtehude, sound perfect on 5th comma mean tone or on a slightly modified Mean Tone.
His earliest small compositions sound pefect also in pure Praetorian Mean Tone.
But Buxtehude was one of the first, about in 1683, to appreciate and be grateful to Werckmeister for his brand new well-tempered system.
Buxtehude asked to him to convert his organs of Helsingore and Helsinborg into the new Werckmeister III system and was extremely satisfied.
Buxtehude composed his later works thinking about the Werckmeister well tempered system, in some keys less pure than the Mean tone but also absolutely without wolf.
I will look into that.... Georg Boehm I know was someone who would play Bach's works (Or am I thinking of Reinken?) and write registration notes in his music. Not actually stops but something like RH Forte LH Piano and Pedal Forte and so forth...
Georg Boehm was the Lueneburg Great Master of the Partita style and Praeludia.
Jan Adam Reinken was the Northern European Great Master (probably from The Netherlands), that was set in Hamburg and was known for his supreme multiple voices chorales arrangements, like An Wasserflussen Babylon.
Reinken is said to have lived about 90 years.
You can found a tons of informations about them in various books...
Boehm was the Organist at St. Johns Church in Luneberg and played the large Mattias Dropa Organ that Schnitger was going to rebuild but never did because of other things to do... Bach also took lessons from Boehm right Because some of the Chorales are played in that flowery ornamental Style that Boehm was a fan of..... I have heard a Few pieces by Sweelinck I like his music it is quite enjoyable... Have you heard any? I will look into those composers and by a few Cd's and some Buxtehude!
Good to hear that you know Boehm and his master art; that Dropa organ, horribly restored by Beckerath, is also in the 4 Dvds box set of JS Whiteley.
I suggest you to study all the music written before 1700: only in that way you'll truly appreciate Bach as the last great master of musical history.
About Sweelinck, he's a supreme master together with Frescobaldi and you should study by memory the opera omnia of both of them: Renaissance and Early Baroque are the greatest ages of Music...
Yes I got those DVD's When it was restored I think they ruined it nothing balances and I don't think any of the divisions blend at all... The mixtures are to shrill now... The foundations are weak and don't give enough support from what I can hear. I also hate what they did to the console and the pedals I can't stand concave and radiating... I like flat... I think they need to restore it to what it should sound like not what they did.....
Beckerath is one of the worst restorer of the past. He ruined lots of instruments, he used crap things like: equal temperament, standard pitch, modern pipes, big reservoir, light alloy transmissions, plexiglass consoles and keyboards, radial pedalboard... Beckerath had no idea about what is an ancient style of construction and restoring. Thanks to God, Jurgen Ahrend recently restored in a perfect way the Altenbruch organ by Coci/Dropa/Klapmeyer: that organ was ruined in the '60s by Beckerath...
Yes I know.... I am that happened too! I Think Ahrend should restore that Backerath monster and restore to what it would have sounded like (Or whatever he could do to make it shine!) when Böhm was there... Which reminds me.... I ORdered some Böhm Lubeck Bruhns and another Baroque composer can't remember the name I know it's not Reinken because I could not find any....
Bach improvised on An wusserflussen Babylon for 25 minutes I recall. Reinken talked to Bach and said something like, "I thought that art form was gone until now"
I once heard that our so called "even" tempermant is really just an 11th Comma meantone becasue there is really no such thing as an even tempermant........
Yes, of course, that is what the story and the legend tell...
What is called "equal temperament" was standardized about in 1913-17 as Twelve Tones equal temp. and was only an avant garde experiment: it worked only with 12 tones music and sounded like a crap with all the rest.
It is still a mystery why it had become a standard for many years.
It is since about 1960 that Equal temperament is no more a standard as all the Ancient, Baroque and clssical music are no more played in equal temp.
Someone once asked me this: "Is it me or is equal temperament like communism?"
Another in the JS Whitley... The Schnitger organ of 2 Manuals needs to be tuned desperately and the upper work of the RP Needs to be re voiced to is very very shrill. The upper work of this organ here is really nice not too weak not to strong just right.....
Equal temp is like Bauhaus: a squared standardized, monotonous, back and grey style, like communism bungalows made of concrete... It is the style and temp. of ignorance.
Equal temp. stays at Unequal temperament, as MacDonald's stays at traditional cuisine...
Yes, I know that organ: it is a "fake" Schnitger, that is another result of an incompetent restoration, product of the ignorance of the middle of last century...
Only for this words and i will call you a jewel, so big is the value i find i your opinion.
Buxtehude was a huge stone givind alot of musical mastering to JSB, equally as composer and organ player. I still find Bruhns better that Diderik. This last seems to me still searching the perfect musical form in his organ works - i will tell exactly wich ones! What a loss that Nikolaus dies at only 32...
I would turn onthe 32' reed at the 16s in the pedal when you have to cross you left foot behind your right. Or even earlier on the last statement of the theme in the pedals
The argument is that Bach wouldn't really have had a 32' but it sounds quite nice to broaden out the last few bars' double pedalling. I do the same in 532. The last statement is three pages in from the end which is too long and besides I'd still only be up to mixture in the manuals, so it would be unbalanced.
the wrong bloody key, say something useful. do you think that a professional organist will play an organ that hasnt been tuned to the right key...its in cornet tone you dafty
Incidentally, Karl Kemper rebuilt the instrument after WWII (the church was destroyed, but the soundboards and pipes had been removed and stored) and tried to retune it to 440 Hz (in other words down a tone) which ended up ruining the soundboards (because of the wind pressure difference) - Ahrend had to rebuild the instrument back along Schnitger's lines which was quite costly.
Incidentally, if you like myself have the misfortune to possess absolute pitch try and work out the pitch of the Gabler organ at Weingarten - there are 3 clips in my favourites. I've got a Koopman disc (BWV 546, great piece if you're familiar with it) recorded there on at the moment, it's not a full semitone down, but it's not at 440 Hz either, it's weird.
And every time TK hits the bottom pedal C the 49st mixture kicks in :)
(That said, if you're familiar with BWV 546, you'll realise that only happens in 3 points in the prelude, one being the last chord, and in the last chord in the fugue - exactly the piece Gabler was intending presumably, when installing la force)
Gabler in Weingarten is tempered in a modified 5th comma meantone and the pitch, typical for a late Baroque-Rococo' organs, is possibly a little bit lower than standard of today but not as much lower as Kammerton (that instead was typical for Riepp,
J.A.Silbermann and sometimes for Trost).
Wagner and Goslar-Grauhof late Baroque organs have a similar pitch to the one of Gabler but they were tempered often in Werckmeister, Kirnberger or Neidhardt.
Because this organ is well known to be high pitched at Cornet tone.... (Kammerton, typical of late Baroque, is low pitch at about 415 Hz, while Chorton, Kirckenton, Cornetton are various high pitches typical of the early Baroque of Northern Europe, that spread from about 465 Hz, till even 502 Hz like the F.C. Schnitger in Zwolle)...
I wouldn't call JSB 'ancient' music. However... I am a performer and regularly perform this particular piece... you are just the type of person that I hope I never sit next to at the Organist's Dinner! Enjoy the music!....
I cant imagine you playing this, you seem to act like a little child, organ is an extremely difficult and complex instrument to play especially this piece, i cant imagine people like yourself playing this when you waste your time sending sad comments on youtube
And who are you to comment! And little do you know. I am not bored by the music, it is magnificent. I have performed it in many of my Cathedral recitals. I am also an Examiner in Organ so I suggest you keep your self-opinionated sad comments to yourself.
oh good for you, an organist of such quality boasting about being an examiner of organ over youtube? Doesnt seem very likely to me. I do know about organ because Im studying it at Edinburgh University
Couldn't agree with you more. This is an excellent rendition of the piece that keeps it moving and doesn't hit any wrong notes which in my mind with any of Bach's organ music is a major accomplishment!! Just as this performance sounds magnificent to the Organ examiner, it also sounds very competent and well-played to this mere layperson who is very familiar with major recordings of the work and has also heard others attempt to play it live in recital. So there!!
The reason he is using the RP is probably because it is closer to the microphone because of the pedal mixture and its 7(?) ranks. it would over power the use of 8 4 2 and the 2 2/3's I use the Posotiv with the Swell on my organ then I add the swell reeds (16 8) with everything on the great (It does not have reeds) minus the flutes except for the 16' flute. With the Pedal Posaune 16 and 32' Violone and pull the 10 2/3 out on the last note. I don't get a 32' Reed
Yes, possibly. Though it's all a matter of the impression you like to show! Personally I like that fugue on 8'4'2' Man and 8'16' Ped principals then add a few mutations to the manual during 119 then drop the coupler to pedal with a spare toe or something during 120, chucking a reed or 3 on during 126-7.
JSW is probably trying to show off a different colour of the Schnitger, though probably not choosing the right kind of piece to do it - he could use a few chorale preludes for that. Maybe he has.
As for the Prelude... Set a solo reed on the RP, and start with HW and Pedal plenum to reeds, whatever's available, Start on HW + P, bars 10-15 (with loads of ornaments) on RP, then back onto the HW for thescale and big chord, frantic dash to pull the reeds off for the Alla Breve still on the HW, then pull on full organ at 96 including 32'reed if there's one.
Nice playing. I particularly liked the addition of the 32' Posaune on the last note. All of your videos are very interesting and enjoyable. I appreciate the way you show the interiors of the organs. As an organ builder I have actually benefitted from these shots! Keep up the good work.
So I'm reading through the top rated comments, one say's this music came "directly" from God, the other said this music came from a brilliant man, but a "man" nonetheless.
J.S. Bach wrote these pieces for his love, and devotion to God. I believe Bach was tremendously inspired by God (however you may define). Many of his works have "Soli Deo Gloria" (to the glory of God alone). J.S. Bach wrote that on the sheet music he wrote these pieces on.
poopingeneral 4 days ago in playlist More videos from ZachariasHildebrandt
When I moved into my house, it had in it's barn a partially functioning pipe organ. I was thrilled to hear of this. Two weeks later I had learned my parents had it removed for scrap and for a small profit at that. I was crushed inside but now it is a goal in my life to once again come into possession of one of these beautiful instruments.
ilovemyhonda250ex 6 days ago
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Hi,i am looking for a fugue speciallist to tell me what is that chromatic fugue:
youtube.com/watch?v=yotypIIavlQ&list=HL1326399726&feature=mh_lolz
I found it as notes and then i made it with a music notation program
Enlightenment82 1 week ago
Marvelous piece--and about two steps above my pay grade.
Kenchely 4 months ago in playlist Pipe Organ
Where is this organ located?
churchwhistles 7 months ago
@churchwhistles
In Hamburg, Germany, in the church of St. Jacobi.
Phaare 5 months ago
@Phaare Thank you. Probably JS Bach himself has played this organ, although I have not followed that up yet.
churchwhistles 5 months ago
This sound is my ear's and minds favorite. Piano is my second favorite. I wished I could own pipe organ, wow, I would never stop playing it and learning about it. Heavenly instrument!
Scorpiusgrl 7 months ago
This is very high, above words, the best comment is none.
ilshatt 8 months ago
I had a very strange experience on first listening to this man, last night. One might call it an out of the body experience, because the music literally lifted out of my own body. It was very very surreal, as if the room I was sitting in faded away and all I could hear was this organ music - which to my mind, was very eerie, yet very very beautiful. Anyway, I digress, it is amazing to me how the human beings can learn to play such instruments in such an amazing way.
wayneleon1000 10 months ago
Bach didn't invent the theme of this fugue. He took this theme from Buxtehude's Toccata F-dur, exactly from pedals solo.
The performance this fugue is perfect ;)
34Bach 1 year ago
simplemente todo es excelente en este video la interpretacion,la pieza y las tomas con mini camaras y efectos especiales de camara
1krazyluis 1 year ago
Sans commentaires, tout simplement merveilleux
nicolasuisse1 1 year ago
This music came from a man. A brilliant man, but a man nonetheless.
chomskyFTW 1 year ago 7
somebody needs to use some dustoff or something under the manual :D
Maxbay89 1 year ago
Staggeringly impeccable recital. Utter splendour!
firebreathone3 1 year ago
I see excellent work of John Scott Whiteley, beautiful piece of Johann Sebastian Bach and unbelievable energy of Arp Schnitger orgel...
Phaare 1 year ago
This guy is a great organist!
heeberman 1 year ago
My alltime favorite, interpreted and executed magnificantly!
orgelfanaat8 1 year ago
I can make out words that pedals speak - at 0:55 they say hallelujah hallelujah hallejuuuuu 3 times.
kknots 2 years ago 2
@5:36 begins the most beautiful part of the music
martinuswalther 2 years ago 2
AMEN!
hatstalker 2 years ago
so you mean to tell me JSW is the only one who can play the Fugue at a good, solid, not-too-fast tempo and do so beautifully? AMazing!
DesireeDeFete 2 years ago
Awasome!!
PSYCO000000 2 years ago
Maybe some of you can help me out here. The heal toe pedalboard method is referred to. Elsewhere on you tube people say that playing just with the toe is wrong. Am I right in thinking the use of the heal became popular in 19th century when the concave radiating pedal board was introduced. (I believe this was Invented by the Hull (English) firm of organ builders - Forster & Andrews. This being the case the heal method would not have been used in Bach's day.?
hautyboy 2 years ago
Back in Bach's time. He would just use the toes. When i play Bach i raise the pedal board and just use toes. if you look at the vidio of the toccata and fugue in F major played at the st. thomas church. where back played. you will see it demonstated. It changes the whole piece.!
OrganMaster310 2 years ago
Just to add another comment. This video demonstrates the correct tempo for this piece of Bach. The music can breath! Often you will see performers playing Bach as if they were in a race against time.
hautyboy 2 years ago
Anthony Newman comes to mind. He plays Bach WAY too fast, and justifies it as being correct because he has a similar astrological chart to Bach's.
bachkirche 2 years ago
Beautiful interpretation of a beautiful piece.
Very good! 5 *
ferdinandocarlomagno 2 years ago
Most would probably wonder why in the world you'd want to wear sunglasses in a church, but it's when you play as awesome as this guy that people stop to care...
Protenor 2 years ago 2
John Scott Whitely is the assistant organist organist at The Cathedral & Metropolitan Church of St. Peter in York (official title) otherwise more commonly known as York Minster, England, it is therefore both a Cathedral & Minster. Great video and performance from a top class organist who is in my opinion a traditionalist when he plays JSB?
hautyboy 2 years ago
Could you anybody tell me, why he plays thema of the fugue at the Hauptwerk? Several seconds later he plays all at the Rückpositiv. Or is this record an editing version?
Phaare 2 years ago
I think that this music came directly from God.
Erikk91 2 years ago 12
excellent performance, excellent recording.
onionofdeath 2 years ago
This music is absolutely wonderful. I'm addicted to classical music. I LOVE IT.
Its wonderful!!!!
medicaldud 2 years ago 2
pause at 32 seconds all you non organists- Look at the bottom keyboard- notice the last 2 black keys? See the extra short keys next to them.
Now correct me if I am wrong organ scholars (I am trying to become one!) Are those for the Meantone temperament? These were special keys so you can play certain chords in this tuning. It was different back then and certain chords sounded bad because the way the organ is tuned.
Brandotuomikoski 2 years ago
This organ have Werkmaister temperament, the first 2 small black keys are the "short octave" (ottava corta in italian).
etbuk 2 years ago
Ah yes. Thanks for correcting me. I have heard that on different organs they performe a different function.
I thought this organ would be tuned to a Meantone type temperment. Wernt the german organs of that day usually meantone?
Brandotuomikoski 2 years ago
No, "short octave" is at the Hauptwerk, Oberwerk and Brustwerk (2., 3., 4. manual). At the Rückpositiv (1. manual), there is a "broken octave", no "short octave".
Phaare 2 years ago
4:46 stunning
betz554 2 years ago
Simply brilliant in composition and performance. Such thoughts are almost inexpressible outside of music. There is an exaltation of the spirit of majesty in this splendid sound. The visual counterparts also add depth and dimension to our understanding of fine instruments and timeless music.
FromHolbergsTime 2 years ago
Brilliant video, Brilliant performance.
silverstartrucker 3 years ago
i am guessing that the images from inside the organ were taken with a fiber optic camera (endoscope)
alin0steglinski0 3 years ago
yes... thank goodness not a medical endoscope as John Wauberton (the producer of this show on BBC)
Bachlives2 3 years ago
What is the difference between an endoscope and a medical endoscope, aside from one being sterile.
wztalst4 3 years ago 2
Does he teach organ? Im looking for a teacher for when Im in collage. What is the best organ collage to attend?
Brandotuomikoski 3 years ago
Lol. Good luck trying to get him as a teacher!!!
There are plenty of good colleges out there. If you're in the US, try for Westminster Choir College, Juilliard, Eastman, and Oberlin. Oh, and Curtis Institute of Music. At Westminster the teachers are Ken Cowan, Alan Morrison, Dr. Matthew Lewis, and Steve Pilkington. Julliard you have Paul Jacobs. I'm not sure about Eastman or Oberlin anymore, but Alan Morrison is also at Curtis in Philly.
edolch 3 years ago
There's no one at Oberlin whose name jumps immediately out at you, but the Oberlin organ faculty are James David Christie and Jack Mitchener.
Fozzymaple 3 years ago
What about the Peabody Insitute? That's got a good organ, and has quite a reputation.
Shogunmiyuchan 3 years ago
He is in England. I think he used to be at York Minster (i dont know if he still is.
organist12345 3 years ago
Yes, John is still very much organist of York Minster.
ArpSchnitger 3 years ago
Taken from the BBC series 'Twenty First Century Bach'. We have had two series of John Scott Whitelely playing Bach on German Organs, and we look forward to further series soon!
ds1868 3 years ago
que efectos tan espectaculares y que organo shnigter
ertaulaz 3 years ago
This organ is tuned in Neidhardt well tempered system (unequal) with high pitch (higher than Corton), exactly like the Waalse Kerk organ of Amsterdam by Christian Mueller.
That's typical of the mature, late Baroque era; Neidhardt I system, an evolution of Werckmeister III, is also fine for Chamber Music.
Absolutely no pipe is out of tune.
alra1975 3 years ago
Was Neidhardt I not called "Für ein Dorf" "for a village?" and that should be for better people? For what reason was "für eine Stadt" or "für eine große Stadt"???
DRJFK1986 3 years ago
Neidhardt with the time moved toward the "almost equal" temperament that was highly promoted by Sorge during Galant era.
But at the beginning Neidhardt was in the line of Werckmeister but more orientated toward a chamber musical approach.
I consider Werckmeister (III, I and II, depending on the table numeration) always the best among well tempered systems.
It is also said that Neidhardt was much slower to temper and he lost lots of competitions...
alra1975 3 years ago
Neidhardt system is sweeter but less pure than Werckmeister, that's the reason of its success in small villages organs for peasants taste; the best examples of medium-big organs tempered in Neidhardt are the Waalse Kerk one by Mueller in Amsterdam, the Hildebrandt one in Naumburg and some others less famous always from the late Baroque era...
alra1975 3 years ago
F.C. Schnitger used to temper in a better way than Neidhardt (even his famous Alkmaar St. Laurenskerk organ was tempered in F.C. Schnitger system, the story of the equal temperament is the biggest lie of the history, the contract never specified the real temperament and for Frans Caspar was natural to use a personal system mixing both Werckmeister and Neidhardt, as proved from his famous Groningen Martinikerk masterpiece)...
alra1975 3 years ago
Sorry, I meant the Hildebrandt one in Naumburg (tempered in Neidhardt).
This Arp Schnitger masterpiece of Jacobi Kerk in Hamburg is tempered with a 1/5 Comma Mean Tone system with a very mild wolf (almost non-existent) with Cornet tone.
It is perfectly in tune.
alra1975 3 years ago
This is fantastic. just to bad that some of the pipes are out of tune. sounds like a 8 foot trumpet or something.
tjugofyra 3 years ago
This organ is in tune. It's tuned to 1/5th Somme mean tone or 1/6th I know it's not 1/4 comma. back when this organ was built there was really no such thing as "equal temperament" until Bach came around. I guess you are not exposed to unequal temperament instruments that much...
Bachlives2 3 years ago
the question is whether the temperament is suitable for the piece... the bits in D major sound fine, but when it goes into B minor etc. it becomes more dodgy because you have B flat when you need A sharp.
Then there is some justification for saying it is 'out of tune' because it is being played in keys for which the tuning system was not intended.
stringph 3 years ago
But we must remember Bach wrote this when he was young..... I think of this as Bach's way to get instruments in the well tempered temperament....... B minor is actually a better key... Take the Luneberg prelude and fugue by Bach there are parts in the fugue that are chromatic and the sound is incredible in a hair splitting way... Not to say it's bad bu the sound this fugue makes is extraordinary when it goes into strange keys like F# major and c# minor. It is incredible that he would risk that!!
Bachlives2 3 years ago
Well, yes I am, but that trumpet is still out of tune, even compared with a Baraque tuning:P
tjugofyra 3 years ago
In the Prelude the brustwerk sounds really out of tune, I think it is not the temperament!
polsterj 2 years ago
no he is not blind, he has however got poor eyesight, he doesnt wear the glasses all the time
joeyboi87 3 years ago
John Scott Whiteley is blind ins't he ? ANd what's the deal with the organ iy's not tuned right at all.Otherwise the whole thing is in E major and not the original key.
mikejunior80 3 years ago
Truly magnificent!
riceman1230 3 years ago
you should listen to the busoni transcription of this peace for piano. its amazing
P0L0K0P 3 years ago
E' perfetto. Altro che Koopman, questa NON E' LENTO, E' PERFETTO. Siete voi che siete cretini. L'interpretazione è perfetta, poi che dire della scelta dei registri! Ottimo, 5 stelle.
antlerose 4 years ago
Ma mi faccia il piacere e smetta di chiamare inutilmente la gente "cretini"...
Questo obeso impacciato di un organista è un totale incompetente, nei quattro dvd che ha registrato, sono state corrette elettronicamente centinaia di errori ed imprecisioni ed è ben risaputo come per prepararsi per queste incisioni costui abbia studiato proprio con Koopman e Christoph Wolff!
Il massimo che questo goffo trippone può fare è esattamente prendere lezioni da Koopman e togliersi tanto di cappello...
alra1975 3 years ago
Intanto la faccia finita di offendere gratuitamente artisti senza dubbio più competenti di lei. Il trippone sarà qualcun altro, impacciato sarà lei. Mi riporti ove è attestato ufficialmente che il Sig. quivi vitato è stato corretto elettronicamente nelle sue esecuzioni. Koopman nel suo sfrenato filologismo corre come un matto. Almeno il Sig. quivi citato è coerente con sé stesso.
antlerose 3 years ago
Sentite da che pulpito giunge la predica, proprio Lei ha il coraggio di parlare di offese! Nei Suoi commenti sfoggia un'arroganza ingiustificata, condita da insulti gratuiti che dimostrano solo la Sua acredine nei confronti di ciò che non gradisce e non comprende (e non faccio certo riferimento a quel buffone ciarlatano di Fox).
Si compri il set completo dei quattro citati Dvd e se possiede un briciolo di orecchio da audiofilo ci arriverà da solo.
alra1975 3 years ago
Poi si guardi il documentario del montaggio in studio e vedrà che è lo stesso JS Whiteley a correggere in studio le proprie innumerevoli cattive note.
Spiacente di infrangere tale nascente, falso mito...
Se poi ha ancora il dente avvelenato per Walcha e Richter, è palese come costoro fossero solo dei pionieri amatori con lacune abissali.
alra1975 3 years ago
In epoca Barocca, Walcha, Richter e compagnia vetusta, obsoleta e bella, sarebbero stati considerati dei meri principianti; oggi sono solo dei gradevoli anticipatori, intrisi di Romantici anacronismi.
Ciò che Lei chiama Filologia è semplicemente ciò che non Le garba ed arbitrariamente non accetta.
alra1975 3 years ago
Non ho la pretesa d'innalzare Richter o chi vuole lei ad unico perfetto esecutore, tant'è che accetto anche le esecuzioni di Leonardth, e quelle del Sig. Whiteley, diversamente da lei.
Richter, Walcha e Ramin sono a mio parere i migliori del Novecento ad aver capito cosa fosse Bach; lei li condanna solo perché non ha conosciuto bene la loro interpretazione.
Quel che non mi piace io lo evito; lei invece osa anche offenderlo.
antlerose 3 years ago
Ritengo che l'impertinente sia lei, che va continuamente sparando a zero su persone che operano percorsi musicali veramente lodevoli. Il Sig. Whiteley ha un ottimo senso musicale, interpretando l'opera bachiana in modo assai gradevole e musicale, senza sfociare nel più languente romanticismo. Lei si permette di criticare persone che non corrispondono al suo stereotipo, il M° Koopman, che ha assunto come fondamento ed exemplum univoco da applicare su qualsiasi cosa. (continua)
antlerose 3 years ago
Mi scusi, Le ricordo cortesemente che le migliaia di Cd, vinili e DVD vari che compongono la mia pluridecennale collezione, sono solo per una infinitesimale parte composti da incisioni di Koopman.
Il Sig. Whiteley è bravo, non è perfetto, ha preso ad esempio e studiato la Decoratio e la Retorica Barocca di Koopman, la Filologia di Wolff e le ha condite con un rubato di stampo Galante-Romantico.
alra1975 3 years ago
Non si giudica un organista solo dalle registrazioni. Secondo me (è solo un'opinione) Koopman è troppo freddo e corre troppo, tuttavia meglio lui di quelli che suonano Bach tutto legato (e questo né Richter, né Walcha, né Ramin lo facebvno).
antlerose 3 years ago
Rogg è conosciuto per il suo moderno ultra-legato, cantabile e ciò non mi piace molto.
Ramin e Walcha erano dei teoreti, presentavano delle personali, astratte rappresentazioni di un ipotetico Bach che non esiste, il Bach puro, incorrotto, un Bach siderale, asettico, oltre il tempo e lo spazio.
Ciò avvicina la loro visione al paradosso chiamato Glenn Gould.
alra1975 3 years ago 2
Potremmo chiamarlo "Bach secondo l'Autismo", o "Bach in un mondo senza Luce", ovverosia, il Bach di coloro i quali si chiudono in un mondo interiore, immaginario, non reale, artificiale...
alra1975 3 years ago
Ripeto, JSW è bravo ma non è un virtuoso e nemmeno un esperto e possiede una cultura in materia Antica che non può nemmeno essere paragonata a quella di Koopman.
Io non evito nessuno, ascolto avidamente tutto e non offendo mai:
esprimo pareri e fondatamente li motivo, non proferisco mere volgarità od offese insensate.
alra1975 3 years ago
Bè, la virtuosità non è sempre musica. Comunque, ritengo come lei che Koopman abbia una cultura msuicale molto maggiore di tanti altri.
antlerose 3 years ago
Koopman ha una cultura in materia Antica, semplicemente immensa, a 360 gradi; io sono un Umanista, un Letterato, un Filosofo ed un filologo-musicologo, per passione e per preparazione accademica, ecco cosa ci avvicina.
Egli sa fondere l'accademismo, la virtuosità e la musicalità, in un perfetto equilibrio.
Koopman disprezza coloro i quali, poveri velleitari, pensano di saper suonare come Bach...
alra1975 3 years ago
...Egli ritiene che al massimo si possa aspirare ad essere dei buoni studenti, al pari di quelli che Bach apprezzava.
La Musica è Arte nel senso antico, quale espressione delle Muse, non è sufficiente studiare le note, bisogna comprendere il Tutto: Arti Visive, Architettura, Letteratura, Filosofia, Musica, Retorica, Religione e molto di più, solo così ci si potrà avvicinare ad una precisa epoca...
alra1975 3 years ago
...Koopman è un uomo completo, Rinascimentale, non un mero musicista che si basa su idee pre-confezionate e spicciole utopie "Urtext", egli è uno dei pochi a spingersi oltre le semplici barriere dell'accademismo da obsoleto Conservatorio.
Koopman fa "vivere" i manoscritti che incessantemente va ricercando per tutta l'Europa, non li "fossilizza" in sterili interpretazioni da museo o in vacui esibizionismi.
alra1975 3 years ago
Perfect
ryanmurphy525 4 years ago
BACH
AMADEUSWINTER 4 years ago
I think in this case slower is better. I've heard many a rushed performance of this one. It's a great showpiece but this performance is clear and deliberate and consistantly well phrased. Other times this piece sounds cool revved up and taken faster assuming the organist is capeable of taking it at speed. This one's good. However I think a bit more change of colour here and there in the first 80% of the fugue would be a good move.
tubamanic 4 years ago
I think this is the best (or one of the best) pieces bach has ever written. and I think it´s played good here.
Schalmey8 4 years ago
A bit too slow.
arklas 4 years ago
Whilst we're mentioning registrations I often play 582 on a plenum. If I want to show off what I can do with an organ's variety, I do this:
Start on 16/8 pedals and 8/4/2 Principals. Play 1. Remove 2' for 2. Remove 4 for 3 and play RH solo on 8 with a 8' flute in LH a 2 clav. 4 on 8'4' flute with 8' string for a bit of twang. 5 back on 8/4/2 same as 1. Add Tierce for 6 and a Quint for 7 and 8. On a 2nd manual set on 8/4 flutes play 9.
ForestChav 4 years ago
10 Starting at the high C, solo on the registration for VII keeping LH on the flutes. Back to 8/4/2 for 12 (took ages to get that one right). 13 on flutes, 14-15 on solo 8'P vs 8' flute. 16 on 8/4/2. 17, 18, and 19 add all mutations step by step, 20 on full organ.
ForestChav 4 years ago
Then the fugue: Drop down to 8/4/2/Mix. At the end of the first pedal entry use 2nd manual set on a pair of flutes. Change back at the next pedal entry. Add all reeds after the pause and the Neapolitan 6th leaving a 32' off until the Adagio.
Inauthentic but sounds nice.
ForestChav 4 years ago
Would probably have a 16' pedal reed on the whole fugue.
ForestChav 4 years ago
Oh.. and you can play that whole pedal part in the fugue with your toes alone :)
ForestChav 4 years ago
Yes I on;y do toes never heel ever! Thats what I do! Speaking of the Passicaglia the variation that sounds kind of twinkly like. 2 variations before the triplets I like an 8 flute with a 1 and 2 flute then you supride the audience and blast away.
Bachlives2 4 years ago
I like 8'2' but we don't tend to have 1' - mainly 1 1/3'.
ForestChav 4 years ago
I actually would pull the 16 reed when it goes inyo F minor but I have not leaned it yet I am working on the Luneberg Prelude though it has taken me about 3 days to get where I am I can almost play it...
Bachlives2 4 years ago
Mate, that fugue is difficult enough to play without mucking around with the stops as well. It doesn't stop.
Even Richter seems to leave well alone.
If you want a nice showstopping prelude to sight read, BWV 549 is good. The other prelude and fugue in C minor is a great play as well but that's difficult to pull off musically because of the phrase lengths.
ForestChav 4 years ago
One thing Ritcher has is a stop puller who has rehearsed with him several times. Do you ever play the music or Krebs?
Bachlives2 4 years ago
Krebs - not really. Buxtehude is nice - some exciting preludes there.
Occasionally I get a page turner to muck around with the odd stop or 2 but I try not to - it's not authentic, there was already someone having to blow the organ and it's unfeasible to suggest they might have another organ assistant.
ForestChav 4 years ago
What don't you really like about Krebs or is it just that not much of his music is available
Bachlives2 4 years ago
Don't really get much exposure to it tbh mate. That, and everyone here seems to like Elgar and french stuff.
ForestChav 4 years ago
Actually thinking about it I can play 8 works by Krebs - BWV 553-560!
Sight read them when I was about 16 and had only just started learning (I couldn't really reach at your age!).
ForestChav 4 years ago
The greatest genius of the history of organ music is Diderik Buxtehude. Bach is the most perfect composer for organ, JS Bach took it to the highest perfection and evolution.
But without Buxtehude, Bach would have been very different from as we know him today.
Buxtehude is the most bold, original, crazy genius. He is Stylus Phantasticus at its apotheosis.
Buxtehude is like Leonardo.
Bach is like Michelangelo.
alra1975 3 years ago
JL Krebs is just a mediocre mannerist, a pupil that never evolved from the shadow of his supreme master.
alra1975 3 years ago
Buxtehude was crazy but Bruhns is way out there too!
Bachlives2 3 years ago
Bruhns was the student and although he was great, a crazy genius like Buxtehude cannot be copied.
And what about Vincent Luebeck, another proto Stylus Phantasticus genius?
alra1975 3 years ago
True about Buxtehude.... Did you know that all of the churches he was organist had the organs tuned in meantone until he left or died that explains why Bux. in Meantone sounds so incredible!
Never really heard any of luebecks music...
Bruhns prelude in G major is so much fun to listen to. What is your personal favorite?
Bachlives2 3 years ago
During Buxtehude life, the pure 4th comma Mean Tone was already quite out of fashion; the wider Mean tone, the 5th comma one, with a very mild wolf, was the new standard. That was the temperament that we find today in the Schnitger organs of St. Cosmae in Stade and in St. Ludgeri in Norden.
The 70-80% of the works of Buxtehude, sound perfect on 5th comma mean tone or on a slightly modified Mean Tone.
His earliest small compositions sound pefect also in pure Praetorian Mean Tone.
alra1975 3 years ago
But Buxtehude was one of the first, about in 1683, to appreciate and be grateful to Werckmeister for his brand new well-tempered system.
Buxtehude asked to him to convert his organs of Helsingore and Helsinborg into the new Werckmeister III system and was extremely satisfied.
Buxtehude composed his later works thinking about the Werckmeister well tempered system, in some keys less pure than the Mean tone but also absolutely without wolf.
alra1975 3 years ago
For all these reasons we talk about two different chapters in the composition life of Buxtehude.
I never had a favourite of mine: about all the Renaissance and Baroque music, I try to explore and listen to as much as possible.
If you like Buxtehude and Bruhns, I suggest you to try Vincent Luebeck, he is a father of Stylus Phantasticus.
Also Georg Boehm is excellent, although not from the North European school.
Andreas Kneller and Georg Dietrich Leydig, are excellent too.
alra1975 3 years ago
I will look into that.... Georg Boehm I know was someone who would play Bach's works (Or am I thinking of Reinken?) and write registration notes in his music. Not actually stops but something like RH Forte LH Piano and Pedal Forte and so forth...
Bachlives2 3 years ago
Georg Boehm was the Lueneburg Great Master of the Partita style and Praeludia.
Jan Adam Reinken was the Northern European Great Master (probably from The Netherlands), that was set in Hamburg and was known for his supreme multiple voices chorales arrangements, like An Wasserflussen Babylon.
Reinken is said to have lived about 90 years.
You can found a tons of informations about them in various books...
alra1975 3 years ago
Boehm was the Organist at St. Johns Church in Luneberg and played the large Mattias Dropa Organ that Schnitger was going to rebuild but never did because of other things to do... Bach also took lessons from Boehm right Because some of the Chorales are played in that flowery ornamental Style that Boehm was a fan of..... I have heard a Few pieces by Sweelinck I like his music it is quite enjoyable... Have you heard any? I will look into those composers and by a few Cd's and some Buxtehude!
Bachlives2 3 years ago
Good to hear that you know Boehm and his master art; that Dropa organ, horribly restored by Beckerath, is also in the 4 Dvds box set of JS Whiteley.
I suggest you to study all the music written before 1700: only in that way you'll truly appreciate Bach as the last great master of musical history.
About Sweelinck, he's a supreme master together with Frescobaldi and you should study by memory the opera omnia of both of them: Renaissance and Early Baroque are the greatest ages of Music...
alra1975 3 years ago
Yes I got those DVD's When it was restored I think they ruined it nothing balances and I don't think any of the divisions blend at all... The mixtures are to shrill now... The foundations are weak and don't give enough support from what I can hear. I also hate what they did to the console and the pedals I can't stand concave and radiating... I like flat... I think they need to restore it to what it should sound like not what they did.....
Bachlives2 3 years ago
Beckerath is one of the worst restorer of the past. He ruined lots of instruments, he used crap things like: equal temperament, standard pitch, modern pipes, big reservoir, light alloy transmissions, plexiglass consoles and keyboards, radial pedalboard... Beckerath had no idea about what is an ancient style of construction and restoring. Thanks to God, Jurgen Ahrend recently restored in a perfect way the Altenbruch organ by Coci/Dropa/Klapmeyer: that organ was ruined in the '60s by Beckerath...
alra1975 3 years ago
Yes I know.... I am that happened too! I Think Ahrend should restore that Backerath monster and restore to what it would have sounded like (Or whatever he could do to make it shine!) when Böhm was there... Which reminds me.... I ORdered some Böhm Lubeck Bruhns and another Baroque composer can't remember the name I know it's not Reinken because I could not find any....
Bachlives2 3 years ago
Beckerath was a terrible organ builder like Paul Ott. They (especially Ott) both ruined all kinds of baroque organs!
polsterj 2 years ago 2
Bach improvised on An wusserflussen Babylon for 25 minutes I recall. Reinken talked to Bach and said something like, "I thought that art form was gone until now"
I once heard that our so called "even" tempermant is really just an 11th Comma meantone becasue there is really no such thing as an even tempermant........
Bachlives2 3 years ago
Yes, of course, that is what the story and the legend tell...
What is called "equal temperament" was standardized about in 1913-17 as Twelve Tones equal temp. and was only an avant garde experiment: it worked only with 12 tones music and sounded like a crap with all the rest.
It is still a mystery why it had become a standard for many years.
It is since about 1960 that Equal temperament is no more a standard as all the Ancient, Baroque and clssical music are no more played in equal temp.
alra1975 3 years ago
Someone once asked me this: "Is it me or is equal temperament like communism?"
Another in the JS Whitley... The Schnitger organ of 2 Manuals needs to be tuned desperately and the upper work of the RP Needs to be re voiced to is very very shrill. The upper work of this organ here is really nice not too weak not to strong just right.....
Bachlives2 3 years ago
Equal temp is like Bauhaus: a squared standardized, monotonous, back and grey style, like communism bungalows made of concrete... It is the style and temp. of ignorance.
Equal temp. stays at Unequal temperament, as MacDonald's stays at traditional cuisine...
Yes, I know that organ: it is a "fake" Schnitger, that is another result of an incompetent restoration, product of the ignorance of the middle of last century...
That is a ruined Schnitger.
alra1975 3 years ago
Sorry:you forgot Georg Muffat and Bruhns!!
pjps1234 3 years ago
About what?
Muffat is a south European composer and cannot be considered exactly Stylus Phantasticus.
Bruhns is the best pupil of Buxtehude.
So what?
I know them like my pockets...
alra1975 3 years ago
Dear Alra,
Only for this words and i will call you a jewel, so big is the value i find i your opinion.
Buxtehude was a huge stone givind alot of musical mastering to JSB, equally as composer and organ player. I still find Bruhns better that Diderik. This last seems to me still searching the perfect musical form in his organ works - i will tell exactly wich ones! What a loss that Nikolaus dies at only 32...
florin11bv 3 years ago
Dear Florin
It is always a supreme pleasure to talk about Art with you.
alra1975 3 years ago
I would turn onthe 32' reed at the 16s in the pedal when you have to cross you left foot behind your right. Or even earlier on the last statement of the theme in the pedals
Bachlives2 4 years ago
The argument is that Bach wouldn't really have had a 32' but it sounds quite nice to broaden out the last few bars' double pedalling. I do the same in 532. The last statement is three pages in from the end which is too long and besides I'd still only be up to mixture in the manuals, so it would be unbalanced.
ForestChav 4 years ago
the wrong bloody key, say something useful. do you think that a professional organist will play an organ that hasnt been tuned to the right key...its in cornet tone you dafty
joeyboi87 4 years ago
13 year old logic.
ForestChav 4 years ago
has anyone noticed that this is in the wrong key (the organ) = )
MeZZosOpRaNOz 4 years ago
No, because it's not. It's in Cornet-ton.
Incidentally, Karl Kemper rebuilt the instrument after WWII (the church was destroyed, but the soundboards and pipes had been removed and stored) and tried to retune it to 440 Hz (in other words down a tone) which ended up ruining the soundboards (because of the wind pressure difference) - Ahrend had to rebuild the instrument back along Schnitger's lines which was quite costly.
ForestChav 4 years ago
Incidentally, if you like myself have the misfortune to possess absolute pitch try and work out the pitch of the Gabler organ at Weingarten - there are 3 clips in my favourites. I've got a Koopman disc (BWV 546, great piece if you're familiar with it) recorded there on at the moment, it's not a full semitone down, but it's not at 440 Hz either, it's weird.
And every time TK hits the bottom pedal C the 49st mixture kicks in :)
ForestChav 4 years ago
(That said, if you're familiar with BWV 546, you'll realise that only happens in 3 points in the prelude, one being the last chord, and in the last chord in the fugue - exactly the piece Gabler was intending presumably, when installing la force)
ForestChav 4 years ago
Gabler in Weingarten is tempered in a modified 5th comma meantone and the pitch, typical for a late Baroque-Rococo' organs, is possibly a little bit lower than standard of today but not as much lower as Kammerton (that instead was typical for Riepp,
J.A.Silbermann and sometimes for Trost).
Wagner and Goslar-Grauhof late Baroque organs have a similar pitch to the one of Gabler but they were tempered often in Werckmeister, Kirnberger or Neidhardt.
alra1975 4 years ago
Both the pitch and temperament are original by Gabler (restored) because its pipes never got cut or altered during the rape of Romanticism era.
The restoration is exemplar, magnificent.
alra1975 4 years ago
If this is so, why is this recording a pitch above the printed version... ie sounding in E major rather than D?
arco42uk 3 years ago
It is simple and obvious...
Because this organ is well known to be high pitched at Cornet tone.... (Kammerton, typical of late Baroque, is low pitch at about 415 Hz, while Chorton, Kirckenton, Cornetton are various high pitches typical of the early Baroque of Northern Europe, that spread from about 465 Hz, till even 502 Hz like the F.C. Schnitger in Zwolle)...
alra1975 3 years ago
and thats simple and obvious!!?? you guys really cheese me off ... boring!
arco42uk 3 years ago
It is simple and obvious for all those that are interested in Renaissance and Baroque eras...
If you are bored, sorry for you...
You should stop to listen to Ancient Music and organs if the knowledge about them, bores you so much...
alra1975 3 years ago 11
I wouldn't call JSB 'ancient' music. However... I am a performer and regularly perform this particular piece... you are just the type of person that I hope I never sit next to at the Organist's Dinner! Enjoy the music!....
arco42uk 3 years ago
I cant imagine you playing this, you seem to act like a little child, organ is an extremely difficult and complex instrument to play especially this piece, i cant imagine people like yourself playing this when you waste your time sending sad comments on youtube
joeyboi87 3 years ago
And who are you to comment! And little do you know. I am not bored by the music, it is magnificent. I have performed it in many of my Cathedral recitals. I am also an Examiner in Organ so I suggest you keep your self-opinionated sad comments to yourself.
arco42uk 3 years ago 2
oh good for you, an organist of such quality boasting about being an examiner of organ over youtube? Doesnt seem very likely to me. I do know about organ because Im studying it at Edinburgh University
joeyboi87 3 years ago
Couldn't agree with you more. This is an excellent rendition of the piece that keeps it moving and doesn't hit any wrong notes which in my mind with any of Bach's organ music is a major accomplishment!! Just as this performance sounds magnificent to the Organ examiner, it also sounds very competent and well-played to this mere layperson who is very familiar with major recordings of the work and has also heard others attempt to play it live in recital. So there!!
melman74b 3 years ago
I agree, why are people listening to these pieces if they find them so boring, the idiots
joeyboi87 3 years ago
IT i actually about a minor 3rd sharp from a 440
Bachlives2 4 years ago
It would not hurt to turn on the Baarpfeif from the Ruck Posotiv through the whole piece. I think it would add alot of clarity.
Bachlives2 4 years ago
I fundamentally disagree with him using the RP anyway... He should be using the HW.
ForestChav 4 years ago
I think what he is doing is just fine. He can add the most oiwer that the Plenum can have for the final statement of the theme.
Bachlives2 4 years ago
What he's doing works fine - it's just it doesn't match with what personally i would do. But then that's the joy of Baroque.
ForestChav 4 years ago
The reason he is using the RP is probably because it is closer to the microphone because of the pedal mixture and its 7(?) ranks. it would over power the use of 8 4 2 and the 2 2/3's I use the Posotiv with the Swell on my organ then I add the swell reeds (16 8) with everything on the great (It does not have reeds) minus the flutes except for the 16' flute. With the Pedal Posaune 16 and 32' Violone and pull the 10 2/3 out on the last note. I don't get a 32' Reed
Bachlives2 4 years ago
Yes, possibly. Though it's all a matter of the impression you like to show! Personally I like that fugue on 8'4'2' Man and 8'16' Ped principals then add a few mutations to the manual during 119 then drop the coupler to pedal with a spare toe or something during 120, chucking a reed or 3 on during 126-7.
ForestChav 4 years ago
JSW is probably trying to show off a different colour of the Schnitger, though probably not choosing the right kind of piece to do it - he could use a few chorale preludes for that. Maybe he has.
ForestChav 4 years ago
Continuation of my Terz list
Corneta (Italian)
Decem (Italian)
Decima Settima (Italian)
Detzem (unknown)
Detzehm (unknown)
Diatonus (unknown) Ditonus (unknown)
Septadecima (Latin)
Septuadecima (Latin)
Sesquioctava (unknown) Sixtil (unknown) Tertie (German))
Bachlives2 4 years ago
Or even a Septieme 1 1/7 even though that is mainly french. Or even a Vigessima-quarta (Latin)
Bachlives2 4 years ago
As for the Prelude... Set a solo reed on the RP, and start with HW and Pedal plenum to reeds, whatever's available, Start on HW + P, bars 10-15 (with loads of ornaments) on RP, then back onto the HW for thescale and big chord, frantic dash to pull the reeds off for the Alla Breve still on the HW, then pull on full organ at 96 including 32'reed if there's one.
ForestChav 4 years ago
That works fine. what i like to do on bars 10-15 is have 8' Holz Gedackt with 4' Koppel flote and a Terz ( Decima (Italian)
Seventeenth (English)
Terz (German) Tertia (German)
Terts (Dutch)
Tierce (French)
Bachlives2 4 years ago
I meant Power not oiwer what ever that is
Bachlives2 4 years ago
Nice playing. I particularly liked the addition of the 32' Posaune on the last note. All of your videos are very interesting and enjoyable. I appreciate the way you show the interiors of the organs. As an organ builder I have actually benefitted from these shots! Keep up the good work.
vivissimo 4 years ago
OH MY GOD...Arp Schnitger was my distant relation. I always wanted to go to Europe and see the remaining organs he created.
Eugene Schnitger
eschnitger 4 years ago
You`ve got schnitger blood going throug you! CONGRATULATIONS!!
Bachlives2 4 years ago
You should become an organ builder and resurrect the Schnitger name.
ZachariasHildebrandt 4 years ago
I could never live up to that level.
eschnitger 4 years ago
Absolutely stunning isn't it?
firebreathone 4 years ago
obulasly, its organ
pipeorganDUDE 4 years ago
i personally like Simon Preston's version a lot better.
cwh1969 4 years ago
how the hell do thay get a camra under the keys
pipeorganDUDE 4 years ago
They use a really small camera!
Bachlives2 4 years ago
Have you seen the size of the organ? They blatantly just went inside the action. There's usually quite a lot of space.
ForestChav 4 years ago
Found it, Forest!
I like the split view of manuals with pedal.
How old is the dust and debris beneath the keys?
Wish they had cleaned it before video.
Original Schnitger action?
John makes this piece look easy to play.
Nice job John and interesting video!
robertgift 4 years ago
Now that I see slats, some of the action is new.
Maybe all new except keys.
robertgift 4 years ago
Everything on that console is new.
Bachlives2 4 years ago