Electromagnetism and "Ghosts" - From the OCPRS Toronto, Canada.

[000000000SAM00000000]

We do have souls but their made of neurons, which have electromagnetic energy which cannot be destroyed and can change from one form of energy to another. So ghosts are possible?

[OCPRS]

@000000000SAM00000000

You believe souls are electromagnetic (and are thus made up of neurons). I personally don't see the evidence to support this scientifically. Philosophically perhaps you can argue the point, but where there is energy (as you believe) then science comes into play, and therefore needs to be applied. I personally don't believe neurons comprise the soul. Thanks for posting.

[OCPRS]

@000000000SAM00000000

Just wanted to add one more thing. Please feel free and welcome to post your arguments concerning your point of view. Perhaps other viewers may be interested in agreeing or considering what you have to say.

[The87Seeker]

No religious belief can be tested, because there is absolutely no proof whatsoever of it. Which is why you cannot look at reality from a religious perspective. To do so makes you no better or worse than cults

[OCPRS]

@The87Seeker

Reality? The subject matter deals with the paranormal and you actually believe that religion is disqualified from human reality? That would disqualify most of human existence and that in itself isn't reality. You also have no proof to disqualify it either. What you ask of others to prove, you can also not disprove. So what is your point? You don't approve of religion? My response to you is SO WHAT? Thanks for your opinion.

[rmcdaniel423]

It is premature and intellectually dishonest to base any hypotheses on an as yet unproven premise. For example, I have yet to see anything that defines what a "soul" is. As far as I know, it has never been sensed, measured, documented, or experienced in any way other than a purely mental construct. An abstract that has no substance whatsoever in the reality we can experience. And as such, it cannot properly be used to explain anything.

[OCPRS]

@rmcdaniel423

I'm not sure anyone is being intellectually dishonest here. Can you elaborate on that point at least.

[rmcdaniel423]

@OCPRS You quote all sorts of people who describe souls in intimate detail, but nowhere have I ever seen someone explain "we know this to be true because . . . ". It's all claims, not proof.  To honestly pursue the phenomenon of "ghostly experiences" in any sort of *intellectual* way, one must be careful to not base explanations of one thing on a premise that is as yet unobserved in any way or shown to be anything more than mere fiction. Therefore, "intellectually dishonest".

[OCPRS]

Hi again rmcdaniel423

Nor did we ignore this aspect of your point. We are not presenting faith as scientific fact. No where do we do this. I think perhaps you have confused who we are, and what we do, and why. We are not an atheistic paranormal society. We are Christians exploring the paranormal through Christian perspectives (just as we indicate on our YouTube channel and blog). I'm not sure why we would be excluding the Christian component simply because you do? Or am I misunderstanding?

[rmcdaniel423]

@OCPRS You dissect what you call the "pseudoscience" of those who pursue the electromagnetic theories quite well. However, you utterly fail to examine the claims of the church with that same incisive scrutiny. To say that fanciful claims of immortal souls should be duly considered, and yet not demand that those claims also stand up to the rigorous and impartial scientific method, is to use your intellect in a dishonest way.

Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence.

[OCPRS]

Hi rmcdaniel423

Presenting Christian perspectives is not dishonest. Most paranormal groups have no problems when presenting their opinions when using mediums/psychics who in turn represent other forms of spiritual perspectives and opinions. The real dishonesty I can see is that people have no problem accepting those other prespectives and opinions, but seem to get upset when Christian perspectives are offered.

Once again, the opinions expressed here are partly based on faith.

[rmcdaniel423]

@OCPRS In my opinion, paranormal groups that accept the claims of mediums/psychics are just as guilty as christians, for using unproven claims as their a priori basis for explaining other phenomena. Yes, I realize your christian perspective. My point is this (which I thought I explained in great detail): You fail to subject your own viewpoint to the same level of objective proof that you expect others to stand up to. That's intellectually dishonest. I don't know how to say that any other way.

[OCPRS]

@rmcdaniel423

No, we do not fail to subject faith to empirical standards. How so? Because empirical standards do not measure such things. We do not need to hold up our faith to your standards of science, which for some reason you believe can be measured empirically when it can't.

I appreciate your sense of objectivity, but I don't believe we are being dishonest about our subjectivity. We are very clear and obvious about it. I'm not sure why you are so persistent in holding us accountable?

[rmcdaniel423]

@OCPRS If you refuse to test your beliefs about reality by standards that are based in reality, and if you think subjective claims of the supernatural represent reality, then there is a problem. By those standards, anyone can just make up anything, and claim it to be true. Without objective standards, you may as well be talking about leprechauns or the greek pantheon. Do not be surprised or confused when others find that mentality to be lacking intellectually.

I'll back off now. Cheers.

[OCPRS]

@rmcdaniel423

Test our beliefs? According to the empiricalmethod (as you suggest?). As I already stated, that is not possible. Faith does not simply exist because of a simple yes or no choice or acceptance. There are experiences which either strengthen or even break faith. In our case, faith has been strengthened as a result of certain experiences.

If you believe we simply "make up" opinions and conclusions then you are seriously mistaken.

[OCPRS]

@mcdaniel423

I must also add that the reason you are seriously mistaken is largely due to your narrow view that the empirical methodology can qualify or disqualify spirituality. It was never set up to quantify spirituality).

You really are presenting a circular argument, trying to promote your own beliefs and impose them on others who obviously don't share what you believe. You keep assuming that anyone who disagrees with you is intellectually lacking. Perhaps it is you who is lacking?

[cravencx]

And metaphysics is... science 8P.

[OCPRS]

@cravencx

Yes, metaphysics is a philosophy of science, but we have to be careful what we assume science is. First, its not an umbrella term that automatically associates one field of science to another, otherwise the laws set up for a particular science would not apply to another (example: thermodynamics isn't metaphysics, and to apply the First Law of Thermodynamics to metaphysics - something many have eagerly done in regards to afterlife phenomena - is not proper science).

[cravencx]

As an imprint , I mean the saturation of the strings in the atoms of were the tragic event occurred. We are just beginning to study this part of science and who knows what can happen with these silly little things. If matter is nothing more then a tiny bit of concentrated thought, then I think it could be perfectly plausible that that tiny bit can be influenced by a tragic event. And further more that only certain individuals would be effected by that saturation.

[cravencx]

What if "ghosts" aren't electromagnetic energy... but the interaction of what we think of as ghosts CAUSE electromagnetic events in our environment. Then the event we know as entities of metaphysical nature would be something else all together. A gravitational force perhaps. I myself still believe ghosts are nothing more then an imprint on the physical world of a tragic event... or maybe even some form of dimensional creature that survives or interacts with the emotional states.

[OCPRS]

Hello cravencx,

Well, according to the video and our own view at the OCPRS, we don't believe that "ghosts" phenomena is electromagnetic. As far as tragic events go, we did conduct a one week investigation at a bridge that has had around 480 suicides but no "imprints" were detected/experienced. Other dimensional may be something worth examining. Dr. J. Vallee has posited such a view. Perhaps what we call Heaven, Hell, etc. is other dimensional? Thanks for posting your thoughts.

God bless.

[dgkolday]

@OCPRS What is the evidenced base practice equipments and instruments used for data gathering in electro magnetic imprints? do they obtain correct assessment or analysis in gathering? how can we say there is another dimension if we are not certain in proposing such conclusions by means of lack of appropriate data gathering equipments...

[OCPRS]

Hi dgkolday,

Please visit the OCPRS blog. Some of our articles will help explain what we consider "evidence" and what we actually believe to be practical in terms of this area of study. You have to understand that paranormal research isn't science.

[dgkolday]

@cravencx so what u are saying " the interaction of what we think of as a ghost Causes electromagnetic events in our environment"

in elaborating this in my opinion, its kind of mind over matter? which you think of something into your mind is able to create something in the environment, which means "Its ALL in THE MIND" which the universal law states.

[vantagestudios]

Your assertion that the musings of the church fathers can't be ignored are in error. They are less founded on fact than the supposed generalizations of modern day researchers. The two can be mutually exclusive.

[OCPRS]

@vantagestudios

No sir, you are in error, and it is unfortunate you don't see the problem with your own bias with so-called "researchers" that actually adopt Eastern philosophies and religions from which their theories are generated.

As for other researchers that do not adopt phil./rel. views, the physical research they conduct remains largely problematic.

Excluding Christianity from an afterlife life view is simply a different brand of spirituality (even if it is called science).

[vantagestudios]

@OCPRS No no... science is not a brand of spirituality at all. It is simply quantitative measurement. You can't go trying to wedge God and Jesus into everything. Science aims to assess everything objectively. There is no secret agenda there -- it's all out there for you to see -- and that is the whole idea. If you can't see it (measure it and quantify it) it does not have scientific proof. There is strong 'evidence' that the science of ghost hunting is moving in the right direction. No proof tho

[OCPRS]

@vantagestudios

And you sir cannot exclude God from anything and everything. The fact remains that the science you claim belongs to the field of the paranormal is really not science at all. What is occurring in the majority of cases is an expression of non-Christian forms of spirituality practiced through apparatus thought to be scientifically sound in the field of paranormal research. Ouija boards and seances are being substituted by EMF meters (for example). As I said, please visit our blog.

[vantagestudios]

@OCPRS BUT in science you CAN technically exclude God because God is not quantifiable or logic-based. You can hardly compare Ouija boards and EMF meters... one is a legitimate scientific measuring tool and the other is clearly not. And most ghost hunters are objective skeptics -- meaning we only "know" what our legitimate measuring tools are telling us -- we don't make assumptions or draw hard conclusions (as you are doing). You are painting with too broad a brush -- typically fundamentalist.

[OCPRS]

@vantagestudios

You say God cannot be quantified but somehow believe that "ghosts" can?

Yes, EMF is a legitimate tool of technology and science, but you seem certain that "ghosts" can be measured through EMF? What is your "scientific" evidence? We remain sceptical about this form of technology in regards to paranormal phenomenon and will be presenting some insights based on our own studies.

As for fundamentalist, the same can be said about you and your disapproval of Christianity.

[OCPRS]

@vantagestudios

Furthermore, I never claimed that science is a brand of spirituality but that it becomes one when applied to the field of paranormal study. After all, most so-called scientific theories about the paranormal stem from one form of spirituality or another. What has been quantified by science regarding the paranormal? Nothing except more theories which once again depend on non-Christian spiritual beliefs and practices. You cannot object to our perspective and expect us to agree.

[OCPRS]

@vantagestudios

Secondly, our purpose is not to promote paranormal misconceptions (which most "researchers" do) but to examine those things from a Christian point of view. For those who believe they are objective and as you say "can be mutually exclusive" (from one another) the fact remains that the concept of "ghosts" is very much barrowed from one religion or another, along with other non-Christian spiritual beliefs and practices.

Please visit our blog for more info.

[GhostlyCuriosities]

Thank you for sharing your views in this video. Very interesting your philosophical / religionist or church-driven / "science-based" premise regarding Ghosts and Paranormal Science. The points you made are definitely something to think about and digest mentally. I believe that someday science will be able to blur the line or bridge the gap between the metaphysical and the natural, that a measurable scientific means will be used to "calibrate"

[GhostlyCuriosities]

@GhostlyCuriosities

dimensions of reality that are beyond physical / natural / material ( the metaphysical / spiritual / supernatural ) that are NOT discernible by human sensory perception or carnal awareness. I appreciate this video and its insightful content.

[OCPRS]

@GhostlyCuriosities

Thanks for the kind words. I would be interested in other people's insights (such as yours) in order to better appreciate what perspectives exist in this world and why.

God bless.

[GhostlyCuriosities]

@OCPRS

You're welcome. Thanks for replying. I appreciate you sharing your views in this video but just to clarify, I do NOT agree with the views expressed in this video but I enjoyed the presentation and its insightful content and your attempt to debunk the law of thermodynamics and your perceived inconsistency with the present day paranormal theories regarding ghosts and electromagnetism. Being a NON-religionist God-believer, I tend to favor the scientific side of things

[GhostlyCuriosities]

@GhostlyCuriosities

regarding paranormal theories and I am inclined to deviate from any philosophy that is religionist / moralist / church-based in context. In order for an organized philosophy to be consistent in its logic, its logic can only be mentalist in context not religionist, moralist or church-based. Only in a mentalist context can a philosophy be deemed organized. The logic must be mentalist in order to conform to law, that is natural / cosmic law.

[GhostlyCuriosities]

@GhostlyCuriosities

The cosmic universe is governed by laws, laws that have always existed. A philosophy that is organized must conform to law, the logic of that philosophy can only be mentalist. The teachings of the Church that you refer to, if the teachings are documented writings, if that philosophy is organized, the logic must be mentalist meaning the logic must conform to natural / cosmic law. Philosophy that is religionist / moralist or church-based are NOT reliable

[GhostlyCuriosities]

@GhostlyCuriosities

because the logic is NOT mentalist and does NOT conform to law.

[necrogary]

Hi, I have few question so i can understand more bout this. I was gifted an ability to see 'them' whereby I witnessed apparittons but my fellow friends see nothing. Therefore we setup a private paranormal investigators and we found few evidence of their 'existance'. Now in Christian's view that all human who passed away and the soul will be brought to God right after death. But who are 'they' that we crews found their existance yet..with my own eye? What are they? Why i can see them? Thanks. -GC

[TriopsUKnorth]

Very intresting.

[assasinwar9]

OK i believe you are right about souls not being electromagnetic, your right to say the the soul is not electromagnetic because it is not, it simply can effect electromagnetic and tempters.

[OCPRS]

@assasinwar9

Thanks for watching the video and leaving a comment. However, we are also interested in the input of other people. If you have any ideas or contributions they are appreciated.

God bless.

[brobuzz001]

Energy is not created or made, however it's can be caused.

Great notions though, dude.

[OCPRS]

@brobuzz001

Thanks

[Mkvine]

I like the scientific approach to this video. You also presented a faithful exposition of the Church Fathers on this matter. Another theory dismantled. Excellent video.

[OCPRS]

@Mkvine

Thanks so much. I had to hold back on the Fathers of the Church because there is so much said by them. My favorite comes from St. John Chrysostom writes:

“Nor, indeed, is it possible for a soul, once separated from its body, to wander here anymore. For, the souls of the righteous are in the hands of God ... and the souls, also of sinners, are straightaway led away hence and it cannot be that a soul, when it has gone-out of the body can wander here.”

[OCPRS]

@DXMediaTV

Thanks for the advice. Will do.

[OCPRS]

@DXMediaTV

OK! Its official! You are now my #1 Editor! lol

Thanks again. It makes good sense.