LOL...this is good. A bunch of liberal shitheads. This deer season I will think of you guys while Im hunting and bathing in the blood of th deer I kill. Then Ill cut them up and eat them with some onions and season salt and then about you guys when I shit it out the next day. You all will never stop hunting and the best part is your too damn dumb to realize it. Youll never stop the eating of meat. the only people you changing is no one bc all the crazies are already with you guys and PETA.
i wonder how many of them are Diabetics and have to use insulin every day. How many of them have had a family member, or a friend that had there life saved by a transplant? How many of them know some one close to them that has to go threw renal dialysis treatments? Or have ever had a family member or close friend under go chemotherapy or radiation therapy for a life threatening Cancer?
REPORT THIS GUYS VIDEO FOR BURNING A LIVE GOLDFISH BECAUSE THIS DUMBASS WAS BORED. NO MATTER WHAT THE ANIMAL IS, THEY ALL HAVE RIGHTS!!! PUT THE YOUTUBE WEBISTE THEN /watch?v=UVJLdwCNUUc
Woahhh this is an old video!! Does anyone actually know if I can get involved with the ALF? I'm a 17 year old girl who lives in Devon =/ I know for a fact the main animal rights petitions that PETA throw are in London only, I want to help but am kinda secluded and I dont drive.
We need to fight China!ALF if you're reading ,please attack China and molotov the people who kill dogs!Cmon i know yall molotov animal testing centers!Molotov dog slaughter houses IN CHINA!
It's quite obvious that (militant) animal activists often operate with suggestive material to justify their violence, only in order to impose their moral views on others.
You criminal and terrorist filth! God help you if you march on the wrong farm. One that is run by a real warrior. Nam vets who truly know geurilla warfare are everywhere. You guys are amateur pukes.
Animal owners private and public including farmers should be forced by Law to treat animals in a humane way. Revolution seems to be the only thing that the cruel and greedy understand.
@IntellectualAmy, "Animals are people too!" I am not your typical ALF supporter being a man will blood on my hands. But I treat friendly animals friendly and I've killed dangerous men and animals. I see no reason to be abusive and good reason to turn protest into war. I have had wild animals as friends. Watch TV with a wild dove that came and went as well as my horse, in my youth! I let our horses free range to my parents shock, but they allowed it.
@itisaduck , I have had the gov try to frame me for domestic terrorism. Had serious attempts on my well being and life. I agree with revolution to forward righteous goals but I would suggest everyone understand there can be a great cost. I seem to be made of teflon, but many have gone down around me. Some killed, others wounded, jailed, income damaged, credibility damaged, family attacked, etc. So count the cost before you do the deed!
No one said it was. You expect to be able to live your life without someone torturing you, don't you? If someone came along and tortured you and your family, would you shrug and say, 'oh well, life isn't Disney bull' and let them get on with it? NO.
Well, seeing as the animals can't defend themselves, others will take up the fight for them. Nothing Disney about that. It's a simple disagreement between those who believe all sentient beings have rights, and those who don't.
There is no institution, that ´s actually made for torturing animals. They all have important other reasons for there actions, like science or food.
Not that I have something against vegan lifestyle, but isn't it unfair, do destroy other properties, just because of their own ideas of ethics and morals.
I mean, the farmers also need to live.
And even if they believe, there actions are right and reasonable, others could think differently.
for things as stupid as trying to see what it's like to be a blind child, or what are the effects oif moking, or make up and shampoo! We know those, and can do without
Vegetarian andvegan life styles are perfectly liveable, so factory farms should be gottenrid of, and wearing fur is only necessary for those who grow it.
Jeez, my comments have been in & out of spam so many times they've now been entered in the Guinness Book, lol. Whoever keeps unspamming them: I love you!
@Wheeburger Most people on this page including me disagree with you. Retarded children don't have rights either! Just because they can't control their emotions and bare thoughts, that means they don't have rights, right!? Now think for a second, why should animals be left to suffer for some people's superiority complexes?
@Wheeburger We're animals too buddy. And being an animal means nothing as to whether we treat them right or not. It's the same as saying in WWII "Why should we treat the Jews so badly?" "Beceause they're Jews." Simply a stupid ideas. They can feel pain, emotions and fear. If the same happened to us by another race, you'd be crying and begging. Then you'd know how it feels to be in so much pain. Animals are not things, much less made for any purpose, espeically not for our use.
@cincyblows The balls for what? To kill you? If I could, I would, asshole. Murderers and manslaughterers shouldn't get off scot free. The least I would do is shoot your legs, lock you up and melt the key.
@vgman94 Fuck you. I'd fucking rip your head off and use it for a fucking bowling ball. Tonight I'll have another steak while you eat shit. You really are a quivering little pussy aren't you little man?
@cincyblows Aw, look at that pathetic little tantrum. You must feel threatened to get so angry. Poor little child. You must know somewhere deep in your mind that whyat you're doing is wrong. It feels wrong, but you're too lazy and scared of changing, so you fight against it. Poor, lost child. May you wake up one day and find enlightenment.
@cincyblows Oh, I'm so scared. At least you'd be jailed for my murder. You get away with murdering animals far too much. The time will come when you'll have to pay and answer for your deeds. You'll see.
@vgman94 Hey cunt. You're the one who started this shit. Now that I gave you your own shit you're crying like the quivering little pussy I know you are. "The time will come when you'll have to pay and answer for your deeds. You'll see." Meaning what, little man? Tell me. That sounds like a threat. Is that what you're doing, pussyboy? Threatening me? btw you fuckhead, animals aren't human and therefore they can't be "murdered". That is, unless YOU "murder" vegetables.
@cincy I was writing to wheeburger and you reply out of nowhere with your mindless shit. What did I mean by that? You're threatened, I see. What I meant is that in the afterlife, you'll pay for your deeds. In terms of sentience, animals are not very different than you and killing them is very much like killing a human. Murder is killing of beings without need. Animals are beings. Stop trying to act superior by tryiing to step on weaker creatures so you don't feel like the worthless shit you are.
@vgman94 It would take a shitload more balls than you'll ever have to make me feel threatened, junior. And you're the ones who have to hide behind computer screens and your mommys' scarves. Golly how brave.
@cincyblows My mom doesn't even have scarfs. Animals are BEINGS. They can feel pain, they possess emotions, they have the same wish for happiness and fear of suffering as humans do. Murder applies only to humans ONLY in legal definitions, not in philosophical and moral ones. You're the one that attacked me first since you're too scared to admit that you're afraid of us. You don't want to be forced to stop torturing animals indirectly for your pleasures. Well guess what? You're a moral criminal
@vgman94 lol Right. Moral criminal. I'm not the one destroying other peoples' property and issuing death threats. You are. You hide behind scarves and ski masks because you lack the courage of your convictions. Otherwise you'd be willing to go to prison for your cause, what with it being oh-so-"moral" and all. I think you feel shame in what you do and that's one of the reasons you wear masks -because you know it's wrong to to run around acting like some little punk terrorist wannabe.
"peoples' property". Animals are not moral property and they're used for economic purposes, so attacking economic property is hitting them where the deserve. Dumbass, wake up. Any intelligent person would hide their identity. If you had a cause you were willing to fight for, you'd use the same si mask tactics. Staying out of prison allows them to save more animals, so it's not about sentencing. I'm an ALF supporter, not one who actually does those things and I still support their decisions.
@vgman94 So you're saying you're too gutless to even put on a ski mask and follow through on your convictions in total anonymity? ROFL!!! They might stay out of prison for awhile, but there might come a time when they attack private property and get shot by someone even crazier than them or you. I hope that never happens; what a waste of a perfectly good bullet.
@cincyblows Do you even know what forensic techniques they use today? It's getting harder to hide from the law everyday and since this attacks the economy, they use resources equal to those in murder case. Perfect waste of a good bullet? So you'd rather shoot an animal then? Sick fucks like you should be used for target practice. You don't take anything seriously that doesn't have anything to do with your precious humans. You care for 9/11, Haiti and Japan, but not innocent animals. Faggot.
@vgman94 When you grow a pair big enough to drag your fat atrophying ass out from behind that computer screen, junior, you're going to be surprised by this thing called life. You know, as in you need to get a.
@cincyblows As for your joke: Wow. Such a SMART come back. You must feel so superior with that ingeniously unintelligent reply. Your mother must cry herself to sleep at night with the devil spawn she made.
@vgman94 Not only do I feel superior to you, I am superior to you. Thank you for noticing. Oh, and the "your mom" jokes are more than a little outdated. No one except an ignorant, mouthy punk talks like -never mind. Carry on.
@cincyblows PS: Vegetables can't be murdered because they don't feel a thing. Not fear, anger, despair or pain. Animals feel all of that (except MAYBE despair, but it's a possibility) and to a similar degree as us. Sad little wimpy cunt. Can't stand living without acting like you're better than SOMETHING, eh? Pathetically fragile egos like yours should be broken with extreme prejudice.
@vgman94 Jesus God what a fucking idiot you are. That was called sarcasm you fucking moron. Animals DON'T have the depth or range of emotions that people do. You're committing anthropromorphic fallacy, junior. Funny how you call me a "sad little wimpy cunt" when you're the ones hiding behind bandanas and computer screens. You fucks just can't take having someone tell you like it is, can you? Fuckin' pussies.
@vgman94 No shit, fuckhead. Animals can't be murdered because THEY'RE NOT HUMAN. It's called anthropromorphic fallacy. And if I'm the "sad little wimpy cunt" then why are YOU the ones hiding behind computer screens and your mommys' bandanas? Fragile ego? You're projecting again. And revealing how weak you are when it comes to getting pushed back. I can see you can't take. You really are a bunch of pussies.
@cincy ... And we'kll get you one day for that. You sick-headed, mindless monsters will suffer for you sick deeds. If you could feel what animals feel, then you'd understand. But instead of researching, you try to troll intelligent people with actual arguments because you can't think about anything and are too scared to admit you're even scared. Sick fuck. Projecting takes specific mental faculties and traits. You don't know me, and your willingness to make immature insults bodes badly for you.
@vgman94 I'll ask you again: if I'm the one who's scared then why are you the ones hiding behind scarves and ski masks? And why does ALF lack contact info on its webpage? Answer: because you're PUSSIES who have to hide from people who can stand up to you. "And we'kll get you one day for that." Really? Go for it. So far you've shown an alarming lack of courage, intelligence, and rational thought. Congratulations on your trifecta (I'll let you look that big word up).
@cincyblows If you were doing something illegal, you'd be scared too, no matter WHAT it is. Grow a pair and learn some honesty. It's only natural to try to escape, for yourself and to save more animals. Rational thought? LOL. You think you have rational thought? I'd like to see you kill a fully grown bear WITHOUT a gun. We all know hunters and anthropocentric assholes are pussies anyway. The fact that ALF members even break the law shows a lot of bravery. You just don't want to see it.
Yes, and now you mark spam what you cannot address with science, reason or logic. Very revealing. You fear me. And you should
Because nothing you say can change the facts. Penicillin has saved millions (if not billions) all over the world. Treatments like malarone and quinine have reduced the scourge of malaria which kills millions. Vaccines. Polio, flu, HPV. Chemotherapy: breast cancer, prostate cancer, leukemia in children (death sentence 50 years ago). Insulin for diabetics
The falsified data was from the VIGOR study, the HUMAN study that showed increased heart attack risk. The animal studies were inconclusive, misleading, cruel, lucrative, cynical, as always.
FLENAC (Fenclofenac) 1990: passed toxicity tests in mice, rats,guinea pigs, ferrets, rabbits, cats,dogs, pigs, horses, and monkeys; produced severe liver toxicity in humans; NSAID (anti-inflammatory)
I know, "this was a misunderstanding too, I have no intelligent arguments so I resort to violence, blah blah."
Reap what you sow, people. Animal-tested Vioxx: 140,000 dead & 320,000 developed serious heart problems. Vioxx was not only safe but protective against heart problems in several different animal studies. They are not our models; this is not science. I can post another killer drug for each new reply from an animal researcher. Why not just agree to disagree (lol, puke) instead?
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Penicillin, millions saved, all over the world. Vaccines. Polio, flu, HPV. Chemotherapy: breast cancer, prostate cancer, leukemia in children (which was a death sentence 50 years ago). Insulin.
Sure we make mistakes (aspirin would never be approved in today's environment). And at the same time, we save millions every year. In all likelyhood, if you are older than 30, we have saved you.
Thanks to animal testing. And vioxx is an example of where people falsified data, and were caught
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We can agree to disagree when you utterly reject violent methods. Until then, you are nothing more than another street thug trying to hold people up at the point of a gun.
And son, I don't respond favorably to threats. I grew up in a ghetto, and the only reason we escaped the grinding poverty and crime was to stand up to the motherfuckers (don't snitch).
I will never, ever, lay down in the face of force. Ever. You have abdicated your argument when you use force.
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I know solstice does that. So do you. Because you are cultists. Your beliefs have nothing to do with science, and that is why we ignore you.
Eventually you may grow up, and realize your goals won't be reached by violence. The more arsons & bombings you do, the less effective you are, and the more you damage the cause of animal rights.
Enjoy your utter failure. No wonder you have to use violence.
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All six of them recovered. Try reading on for size. Their interviews are public. I know you can't handle it when the facts don't fit your agenda, but really.
No wonder you have to resort to violence. You don't have an intelligent argument to offer.
You totally ignore the fact of the extreme, terrible, life-threatening, and damaging reaction in humans after the drug passed the animal tests with flying colors. Instead, I'm "violent." Typical.
You need to set your angry ego aside, stop being a cruel creature of habit, and explore all of the excellent and scientific non-animal research methods. Until you can do that, please stop replying to my comments. I'm sick of this.
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Oh my God, you are so dishonest. I did not ignore it. I acknowledged it. And such things happen. Sometimes people die.
And you are deliberately ignoring the THOUSANDS of drugs that have been successful, and for whom animal testing was crucial. Not to mention the entire science of biochemistry.
I will stop replying to your comments when you stop posting bullshit.
And we DO explore non-animal research methods, which is why we haven't stopped using animals yet. None is satisfactory.
All 6 people given TGN1412 developed systemic inflammatory response within 90 minutes: rapid induction of circulating proinflammatory cytokines...headache, myalgia, nausea, diarrhea, erythema, vasodilation & hypotension; critically ill in 12-24 hrs: pulmonary infiltrates & injury, kidney failure & disseminated intravascular coagulation; so ill they required mechanical breathing, dialysis & infusion of frozen plasma & cryoprecipitate to stop the coagulopathy.
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And that is the bottom line.
You are welcome. You are welcome for the technologies that allow you to be spoiled and foolish enough to criticise what you obviously are not intelligent enough to appreciate.
The whole green movement... where do you think the data came from for us to know how dangerous mercury is, or lead, or pesticides? Animal testing.
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We test millions of compounds yearly. Spend years trying to learn why certain species can be infected with HIV (for instance) and not suffer disease. Thanks to these studies, we have learned about receptors like CCR5. Developed drugs that have turned HIV from a death sentence to a disease that people live WITH not die FROM.
And every single one of you reading these comments have benefitted from antibiotics, vaccines, medical techniques and tests developed from animal testing.
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"penicillin kills guinea pigs" Sure. Which is why we use several different species in every drug trial. Pigs, monkeys, rats, mice, guinea pigs, and so on. In an attempt to measure both the beneficial effects, and anticipate negative effects.
As with all human endeavors, we are not perfect. But we are trying
It is easy for those who have not accomplished anything to snipe at our methods, and pick out our failures. They are well documented, because that is what we do to learn from them
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TGN1412 is a well documented case where animal testing obviously did not help. However "devastated the health of all six" is not an accurate statement. 4 of them recovered fully within 72 hours, and 2 others had longer term recovery. At this time, all of the patients seem to have fully recovered.
Documented in Cytokine Storm in a Phase 1 Trial of the Anti-CD28 Monoclonal Antibody TGN1412, and thousands of other studies.
Your statements are misleading and dishonest and damages your case.
What HumanShot said might sound logical to the uninitiated, but remember that penicillin kills guinea pigs, so if they'd been used to test it instead of mice, penicillin would've been discarded. The common practice is to find a few species that have a positive result as the excuse to test in humans. Thus we have TGN1412 which tested safe in mice, monkeys & several others and devastated the health of all 6 human subjects.
That soul destroying term "necessary evil" should never have been embraced.
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IF we didn't have animals to use for testing, a LOT more drugs that are harmful would slip through to human clinical trials.
We have tried going direct to human in the past. And discovered the hard way that is extremely dangerous. Using animals, we eliminate the vast majority of compounds early on.
And you are lying when you say that animals do not produce accurate results useful as human analogues. They are not 100%, but 50% saves human lives, by the millions.
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Ah yes. The cry of the ignorant. If you aren't perfect, you are incompetent & evil. Why don't you guys talk about the thousands of effective, beneficial drugs, treatments, vaccines and tests that have been developed thanks to animal testing.
Oh yeah. Because that doesn't fit your agenda. So you can't admit the truth: Every drug, every antibiotic, every vaccine, every medical test, and every surgery are thanks to animal research.
Sure we get things wrong too, that is why we do trials.
I read some more on that TGN1412, man it sound like they are going to have loads of different types of cancers for their whole life from that 'animal safe' product.
Your new comment got in between your first one and my reply. Yeah, like I say, no other branch of science would get away with what they do. It's so damn sad.
I doubt it. I tried to take the spam mark off your comments, but it won't work. Someone got mine here out of spam, so I wonder why not yours. Anyways, stay strong!
It's important for you to have the last word isn't it, animal "researcher." You need to feel like the victor, even though you already claim massive victory an infinite number of times and that everything right is on your side, lol.
At the right time, your soul will be dealt with appropriately.
Animals are not our models, and if they were, what you do would still be disgustingly wrong. This is not how humans were meant to be, before things went wrong. You'll see...
This argument is just retardedly repetitive and circular now.
You want to do it, we don't want you to do it. Things will either change or they won't.
There will always be people who will fight for what they believe in, history is rich in such movements. In time enough support will be gathered where it will change or it won't. As it stands it grows consistantly so we shall see what the future brings.
Public awareness of what happens in there will ultimately be the deciding factor
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And your bias is laughable. "Death labs." Pathetic. Why don't you try making a well reasoned, logical argument. Then you might get some support. As it is, you are a bunch of internet posers and a few radicals. From your attitudes, and utter lack of an intelligent argument, it is not suprising that you have to use violence.
I've read through your posts. You didn't make a single intelligent argument. Dismissed.
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Humanity has a vested interest in keeping the labs open, because that is where our advances in medical science come from. It is how we have doubled the average life expectancy of Man in the last century, and that is an accomplishment worth celebrating. We have virtually eliminated many childhood diseases. You are bitter and angry because you don't like the fact we use animals. The day a superior alternative is available, we will use it.
You have a vested interest in keeping these death labs open which is fair enough, Greed is a powerful motivator and certainly has propelled man to do many horrible things in it's pursuit.
We can argue in this loop until the cows come home, you'll always think what they do in their in right, and i'll always think it is wrong and should be done on humans.
Did you really just spend the last 7 hours trying to think of replies while i was asleep.
That is so sad.
Simple fact is animal testing has NO bearing on a human and no one would EVER rely on animal testing until it is tested on a HUMAN, which most of the time will give different results anyway.
Science is no excuse for the reckless torture they happily inflict.
And why do you keep talking to yourself with other accounts, it is really sad dude.
"No one gives a shit what you fringe morons have to say. ...IN an average day, I don't even THINk about you guys, and I work in a lab every day."
He claims all of science, wisdom, the public, everything good on his side. ALF supporters & ALF are "a tiny fringe group of lunatic morons that nobody listens to, everybody hates," yet he keeps spraying poison in these videos in an endless stream of tirades to try to prove his case....Rather curious.
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Tell you what. How about you be honest with the people in Britain. Tell the mothers of Britain that you want to return to a world were 1 in three children died as infants, and 50% of the rest died before 18 from simple infections and childhood disease.
Explain to them that modern medicine has never cured anything, that it is all a fraud because it is based on animal studies, which according to you are worthless.
Be honest, for once. Your organization is based on stupidity and lies.
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"We were better off before you pumped us full of pills"
Have you ever seen a case of polio? How about smallpox? Dysentery? Cholera? Watched a man dying of AIDS? How about metastatic cancer? How about a 4 year old dying of type 1 diabetes? Or a simple shaving cut resulting in death from a staph infection? Strep throat deaths?
Yeah we were so much better off! Crippling disease, sky-high infant mortality, 50% adolescent death rates.
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" last 30 years"
Really? Strawman much. Do you have an intelligent argument to offer, or are you going to keep telling me what I think? I guess you are a pretty good mindreader.
And the reason animal testing isn't going anywhere soon, is because science supports it, and people want it. And quite frankly we do value human life over animal. And that isn't going to change.
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"products tested on animals which resulted in those lines being withdrawn." Really? Which pharmaceuticals.
Again, your claims have nothing to do with medical testing, medical techniques or pharmaceuticals, which is all I have ben talking about. I could care less about animal testing of shampoo.
What you don't realize, is it was scientists like me, who helped to have that kind of testing eliminated.
And the reason medical testing hasn't changed is it is based in solid science.
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"We were better off before you pumped us full of pills" Wow! I AM a sneaky bastard. What pills have I been stuffing down your gullet?
Anything for paranoia? You might want to look into that. I would say something for brains, but unfortunately we don't have any pills to help your IQ yet.
What drugs do you take?
"blow holes in your paper thin arguments tomorow" Oh yes, by admitting that we have doubled the average lifespan in the last 100 years thanks to modern medicine. Bravo!
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"Fur farms have all but moved away" And what does that have to do with labs or medical research?
"the labs struggle" Really? I will have to ask my collegues about that. Haven't heard any complaints.
"Life expectancy has gone up" Ah so you flirt briefly with reality, congratulations
"quality has completely nosedived" Really? Perhaps for you. I would say my family's quality of life is outstanding. But I am not a delusional twat. I can understand why you would be depressed.
Leash: I am not interested in your sexual proclivities. Stick to the goats out back.
"Made an entire nation sick" Really? Is that what you call doubling the life expectancy in the last 100 years.
You know why your movement is a failure, and will remain so. You have no honest or real arguments. And you are not dealing with people dumb enough to buy your bullshit.
You don't keep up with current events much do you.
Fur farms have all but moved away, the labs struggle to get contracts to deliver to them because alf target the vehicles and the animals that are bred for the labs are constantly rescued, obviously not all of them.
There was a campaign that targetted products tested on animals which resulted in those lines being withdrawn.
The UK loves animals and whenever you get exposed as the nutters you are, fur flies, lol
And in the process made an entire nation sick, making the usa a nation of pill poppers for things that would be fine without msg, filthy air water and contaminated animals and the untold amount of supposed good things you invent only to discover at a later date that is will give you brain cancer or something (aspartame for one if i recall)
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Lets see. Developments in modern medicine that have saved millions of lives, thanks to medical testing.
Polio vaccine, Flu vaccines, Prostate cancer treatment, Chemotherapy, Anti-Rho antibodies, Coombs testing, X-rays, every antibiotic ever made, every anaesthetic, every analgesic, every steroid, proton pump inhibitors, beta blockers, insulin, blood typing and cross matching, DNA sequencing, PCR, ELISA, Western, Southern, all the HIV drugs.
Test on animals, get flawed results, long list of people dead,dying and complete incompatability. (see1221solstice page)
As a doctor mentioned on one of the films on youtube, a doctor will NEVER rely on animal research for a human diagnosis.
Your obsession with torturing animals leaves us more exposed because what you think is safe then turns around and kills aload of us or a nice new ailment, good job
And until you mindless cultists can come up with an intelligent argument actually based in objective science, your movement will get precisely no-where.
And yes, it is people like me who will see to it.
We aren't going to be influenced by your pseudoreligious beliefs, and threats only solidify our resolve. You are no better than those extremists who murder abortion doctors to try to stop abortion.
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Why should I lie about it. The history is clear and available publically. Which is why your movement is an utter failure.
Insulin, antibiotics, every vaccine ever made, every chemotherapy, surgical technique, every test, every single one of them are tested on animals every year.
How's that? Extreme anti-abortionists have actually murdered people, ALF hasn't.
You can't change the very basic scientific fact that animals are not models for humans. Period. You don't need "alternatives" because there is only one: Real Science - always obeying the Hippocratic Oath: Above all, do no harm...(a totally alien concept to someone who probably still loves pulling the wings off flies, even with all your other sadistic indulgences).
Scientific fact: The real guinea pigs (humans) are responsible for all medical advances. Animal results are always hit-or-miss, cause human deaths & injuries, and are used to obtain grants and to reassure the human test subjects.
If penicillin would have been tested in guinea pigs, which was the common practice, it would have been discarded because it kills guinea pigs. Hit...or...miss.
You are entirely ruled by emotion: mainly hate; it shows in all your writing...your arrogance does too.
No other branch of science would get away with the diabolical nonsense vivisection does. Fact: 2006: TGN1412 was tested in mice,rats,rabbits & monkeys & was safe/effective, then caused multiple organ failure, near death & permanent immune system damage in all 6 human subjects after 1 dose. At 500x doses even primates were safe from those effects.
Want more examples?
Better substitute needed? I suppose we need a better substitute for child abuse, etc., before stopping that.
Fact penicillin was first tested on mice. Fact every pharmaceutical in the world was first tested on non-human animals. Fact, that isn't going to change anytime soon. Fact, every surgical technique in the world is first tested on animals. Fact, that will never change.
And the reason it won't is because it is scientific. We aren't cult members like you. We aren't ruled by emotion. We are ruled by reason.
Hurry up boy, invent a better substitute. And then we will stop using animals.
And I guess you have some software on your phone to prevent that being traceable too *rollseyes* Yah right. And yes alf is worldwide. You need a population of 6 billion to find a few thousand dumb enough to fall for your pitch. And the facts are that animal testing is essential to medicine & science, and for those reasons it won't be stopping anytime soon.
And if it does, it won't be because of threats of violence, it will be because we found a better substitute. Or the alfies volunteer
Lol, i give up. You have beaten me down. I simply cannot compete with how retarded you are and how little you seem to know about anything you dribble about.
Your like the last nutter on earth screaming that the whole is flat and man is the centre of the universe.
I'm off to bed and will leave you to burble incoherently about whatever.
Don't waste your breath 1221, the guy is terminally dumb.
P.s, your knowledge of how phone traces work as well is pretty lol but i'll leave it there for now
Yes I know. Dumb. Retarded. Stupid. I must be them all. And yet you are wrong, and I am right. And I am last? Really? Then why are we still doing animal testing. All over the world. 9 major primate centers in the US alone (1 less than a mile from my lab, where I get my monkeys). Every medical journal in the world. Every major department of biochemisty, biology, medicine, pharmacology ALL use animals for testing.
Yes we are all idiots. Penicillin doesn't exist...
You are bored because you are are intentionally obtuse. You cannot actually examine the science, because your cult beliefs cannot survive them.
Look up mother fetus incompatibility and how that was solved (without which fetal death rates double overnight). Coombs tests. The development of x-rays. All antibiotics. Every surgical technique. The ECG and EKG.
ALL dependent on animal testing.
As for your fantasies about multiple accounts. That is just another pathetic strawman.
I cannot argue with you anymore, it hurts the brain how ignorant you are. You want to support the lunatics in labcoats killing and beating the animals , fine. It's your choice.
I understand science but as my main field has been in nutrition and sports related science, i also understand how alot of the crap you make makes people even worse and make society think it needs something it does not.
You lot made a G.M.O recently that makes it's own pesticide, which we ingest.
You aren't arguing. You just keep calling me dumb. You haven't provided any evidence whatsoever of any of your claims. You say we have never cured anything, and I give you a dozen examples. Proved wrong.
You say you have better alternatives than animal testing, and yet you have yet to name one. You have yet to name a single pharmaceutical in the history of modern medicine that wasn't developed with animal testing, or surgical technique, or test.
Yes you call me ignorant, and yet you don't know the first thing about how pharmaceuticals are developed, much less why we use animal testing. You call me ignorant, and yet I graduated AOA from my medical school at Brown.
Very amusing. And you know, you have made an enemy for your cause. Initially I came here to learn about the alf and its members. You have thoroughly convinced me you are a bunch of emotionally stunted uneducated twats.
And son, your strawmen are just pathetic. I never claimed to know how phone traces work. I know that every phone call you make, every post you make, every time you connect to the internet, your IP address is recorded and known. And there isn't a damn thing you can do about it. And if you have any questions you might want to ask your friends the FBI snapped up.
Ask Peter Young how they tracked him down and put him in club fed for 2 years. Hmmm.
If your hiding the I.P adress, your isp won't know it is you and if anyone tries to trace you while your doing whatever, you show up at a random add around the world.
Jesus god your a moron.
Fbi doesn't really have alot of say in England believe it or not. Wierd isn't it. Shall i explain it slower so your brain can catch up or write it in big chalk letters
I don't know how anyone can be as dumb as you. Ask your mother. Perhaps she made love to a chimp.
And again, I am the moron, and yet you are the one who denies what is historical. How smart is that? You ignore the truth because it isn't convenient for your cult beliefs.
Well whether you like it or not. Every pharmaceutical you have ever seen, or taken. Every medical test, or surgical technique were ALL developed with animal testing.
"If your hiding the I.P adress, your isp won't know it is" ROFLOL! Go on a compuer science forum and explain that. No wonder you cannot handle even basic information.
You cannot hide your IP from your ISP. They provide you the connection, and you have an IP with them. In their computer. It can change from time to time, but they always know what account is accessing them. So if you don't pay your bill, they turn you off.
Omg, i can't believe just how stupid you are. You seriously believe the vomit spewing on your keyboard.
It would be funny if you weren't deadly serious about it. I'm honestly amazed, you run a lab supposedly and try to sound clever but you have so little knowledge about advanced security measures.
The world is still flat as well isn't it dear, bless.
Dur dur, you can't hide you ip, duuurrrr, hahahaha, what a knob
Yes call me stupid again. And yet, animal testing still goes on. And yet, animal testing is crucial to every development in modern medicine of the last 200 years.
And yes, I am deadly serious about it. Because the science is solidly behind MY point of view, and you are yet to voice an intelligent argument.
You call me stupid. That is your argument. No wonder you guys have to resort to violence. You certainly have no intelligent case to offer.
Jesus, you don't have a job do you. All day every day you are here. No wonder your movement is a failure. And your comment about stupid people is right. So I won't debate you. These guys are right. Animal testing is crucial to medicine, and it won't stop anytime soon.
You know you can reply to this stuff from a phone don't you.
Moron.
You pro lab torture nutters are really stupid. And dumb too, you totally avoid the fact that the birthplace of the A.L.F has had massive influence and it has been growing into a worldwide movement.
But don't let facts get in the way of you dribbling onto your keyboard.
All things aside though, it is quite sad that you are using another account to support yourself. You sound like a very sad individual :#(.
I'm staggered that you seem so clueless about anonymous i.p software and you claim to be really intelligent. I've said repeatedly it isn't a service i use, it is software you can get from any torrent easily.
If your going to lie about something, don't do it with someone who knows what they are talking about.
Trying to debate with stupid people is like trying to lick your own elbow.
I'm simply amazed you are able to breathe unaided as you seem to be so mind bending retarded. Try to remember to breathe every now and again if you can.
The whole i.p thing is hilarious because you don't have a clue what you're talking about
Continue supporting the lunatics in labcoats and i'll keep supporting those who fight to stop there evil.
I have read through your comments and you are yet to get a single thing right. Your IP is recorded by the ISP. No software in the world changes that fact. And assume you use an anonymizer service. The day that a terrorist act gets attributed to you, they are going to turn over your IP information. They aren't going to go to jail for you.
But talking to you is a waste of time. You are a cultist. And you have lost the debate.
And you are wrong. But you are the kind of person that stares into the sun and denies the existence of light. It is science, and science only. And the reason you "animal rights" idiots have to resort to violence is you have no intelligent, or reasonable case to present. Humanshot is right. It isn't going to change until there is a better alternative. And the only people who will be hurt by alf action are the alfies, when society starts treating you like the criminals you are.
Humans are generally good at heart and as more become aware of what these lunatics in lab coats are doing in the name of profit, more will join and stop this disgusting and medieval practice.
Failure, are you joking? lol, they have had an enormous impact in the UK .
Sorry little miss but times are changing, this isn't the stone age anymore
And yet, you are the one supporting a failure of a terrorist movement. Hmmm. And he is working as a doctor, respected in his community, saving lives. Educated, well paid.
Its not greed, son. It is science. And that is why it isn't changing.
Shows what good thinking does you. Animal testing will continue because the science supports it.
When we have a viable alternative, we will change to it. Of course the actions of groups like alf push that day back, and harden the attitudes of scientists such as myself.
Whereas I might be willing to use an imperfect substitute at a greater cost before, now I will go for the cheap and readily available animal. If for no other reason to piss in your collective
Really? You are the one supporting a terrorist group. Seems that dumb is as dumb does. Oh... and there is no software in the world that is going to prevent your ISP from recording your IP. So your calling other people dumb is really
Dumb.
Ah.. not to mention you are antiscientific, and he is not. Again. Dumb.
Funny how you guys cannot convince people of your point of view so you resort to violence.
I wonder how long it will be before the rest of us get tired of you mosquitos, and decide to use the full force of law to jail you, or the force of the military to kill you.
I'd like to see that subpoena, for suspicion of improper thoughts/speech. Get some love in your heart and stop being a brute. There is a mathematical certainty in the universe: action and reaction.
An interesting psychological study: The guilt induced paranoia of the vivisector. No animals used, obviously. Do you know how crazy you sound by assuming everyone's a college student or ALF member plotting violence against you? At least it shows you have a buried conscience; now move on to the next step...
Vivisector? ROFLOL! What are you from the 14th century? The taliban would love you, fucking luddite.
Well guess what son. No one gives a shit what you fringe morons have to say. You are less than an inconvenience to me. IN an average day, I don't even THINk about you guys, and I work in a lab every day.
You can moan, you can piss, and we still run the world. Enjoy your wasted life.
Yes you are delusional. And animal testing isn't stopping anytime soon. And in fact the existence of groups like alf have harmed the animal rights agenda because reasonable, intelligent, science driven people dismiss the agenda due to its association with violence.
So if your goal is to end animal testing you are being complete fucking morons. But that is hardly a suprise now is it.
Anal Libertine Front is it?
cincyblows 4 months ago
The fuckers in this video should have been shot on sight.
cincyblows 4 months ago
I just had the BEST sirloin steak! Medium, with the right amount of juices, and tomorrow I think I'll have a couple of hamburgers.
cincyblows 4 months ago
LOL...this is good. A bunch of liberal shitheads. This deer season I will think of you guys while Im hunting and bathing in the blood of th deer I kill. Then Ill cut them up and eat them with some onions and season salt and then about you guys when I shit it out the next day. You all will never stop hunting and the best part is your too damn dumb to realize it. Youll never stop the eating of meat. the only people you changing is no one bc all the crazies are already with you guys and PETA.
ObamaisnotaGOD 7 months ago
Real Justice league
sahil3486 9 months ago
Justice league
sahil3486 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
i wonder how many of them are Diabetics and have to use insulin every day. How many of them have had a family member, or a friend that had there life saved by a transplant? How many of them know some one close to them that has to go threw renal dialysis treatments? Or have ever had a family member or close friend under go chemotherapy or radiation therapy for a life threatening Cancer?
luckystrikebrand1983 10 months ago
Bravo!!Bravo!!! de tout coeur avec vous !!Merci pour les animaux sauvé merci!! kissssss
chaneledith 1 year ago
Life Liberation.
WookieeTheWhite 1 year ago
REPORT THIS GUYS VIDEO FOR BURNING A LIVE GOLDFISH BECAUSE THIS DUMBASS WAS BORED. NO MATTER WHAT THE ANIMAL IS, THEY ALL HAVE RIGHTS!!! PUT THE YOUTUBE WEBISTE THEN /watch?v=UVJLdwCNUUc
IReallyLoveCrack 1 year ago
alle fleischfresser sind Mörder.Alle Mörder an die Wand!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
Ordos85 1 year ago
Human liberation !
Animal liberation !
wuffael 1 year ago 2
Woahhh this is an old video!! Does anyone actually know if I can get involved with the ALF? I'm a 17 year old girl who lives in Devon =/ I know for a fact the main animal rights petitions that PETA throw are in London only, I want to help but am kinda secluded and I dont drive.
COBHCBloodJunkie666 1 year ago
long life ALF
malverg 1 year ago 3
We need to fight China!ALF if you're reading ,please attack China and molotov the people who kill dogs!Cmon i know yall molotov animal testing centers!Molotov dog slaughter houses IN CHINA!
Humberto4790 1 year ago
@Humberto4790 Why? cus they dog's? why china? What about the rest of the slaughter houses in the world? thats fine?
Just because Dog is Not on your Menu, doesnt Make China more wrong Then you are when you are eating your Mc-d's Cow flesh hamburger.
lucius215 1 year ago
@lucius215 Yes,dogs go first then we'l save cows.
Humberto4790 1 year ago
@Humberto4790 i say we dance in our backyard before we dance abroad.
and dont get me wrong here, i LOVE dogs.
Its just that we cant go Point fingers at other people, or even whole countries whilst neglecting Our own respective issues.
Un saludo desde Hollanda.
lucius215 1 year ago
A.L.F.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Barry2078 1 year ago 3
bravo
fhattest 1 year ago
It's quite obvious that (militant) animal activists often operate with suggestive material to justify their violence, only in order to impose their moral views on others.
randomfail 1 year ago
You guys are heroes! Not those sportsman bastards.
That's a true act of courage.
Panter4 1 year ago 3
until every cage is empty!
ThoseWhoSave 1 year ago 5
Bravo - Animal Liberation League - The Best of World.
REMMO11 1 year ago 3
ALF - You are doing a great job and really hit where it matters. Respect to you people!
IntellectualAmy 1 year ago
is this a part in a documentary?
if it is please share the name of the documentary. Lookes fascinating!
FightForTheInnocent 1 year ago
im going to do this when i get older
wolfpaw999 1 year ago
You criminal and terrorist filth! God help you if you march on the wrong farm. One that is run by a real warrior. Nam vets who truly know geurilla warfare are everywhere. You guys are amateur pukes.
farrier616 1 year ago
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ElledieWildAndFree 1 year ago
Animal owners private and public including farmers should be forced by Law to treat animals in a humane way. Revolution seems to be the only thing that the cruel and greedy understand.
itisaduck 2 years ago 2
@itisaduck - Indeeedy!
IntellectualAmy 1 year ago
@IntellectualAmy, "Animals are people too!" I am not your typical ALF supporter being a man will blood on my hands. But I treat friendly animals friendly and I've killed dangerous men and animals. I see no reason to be abusive and good reason to turn protest into war. I have had wild animals as friends. Watch TV with a wild dove that came and went as well as my horse, in my youth! I let our horses free range to my parents shock, but they allowed it.
itisaduck 1 year ago
@itisaduck , I have had the gov try to frame me for domestic terrorism. Had serious attempts on my well being and life. I agree with revolution to forward righteous goals but I would suggest everyone understand there can be a great cost. I seem to be made of teflon, but many have gone down around me. Some killed, others wounded, jailed, income damaged, credibility damaged, family attacked, etc. So count the cost before you do the deed!
itisaduck 1 year ago
Comment removed
itisaduck 2 years ago
I love ALF.... they are aware of the injustice mankind perpetrates on innocent animals.
kloake9870 2 years ago
So what exactly is done with the animals that are "rescued"?
Oviraptor78 2 years ago 2
they take them in to sanctuaries and properly examine them to make sure they are alright and give them homes
wolfpaw999 1 year ago
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man what dosent the alf get? LIFE ISNT DISNEY BULL****
Noobannialator 2 years ago
No one said it was. You expect to be able to live your life without someone torturing you, don't you? If someone came along and tortured you and your family, would you shrug and say, 'oh well, life isn't Disney bull' and let them get on with it? NO.
Well, seeing as the animals can't defend themselves, others will take up the fight for them. Nothing Disney about that. It's a simple disagreement between those who believe all sentient beings have rights, and those who don't.
springnicht66 2 years ago 4
There is no institution, that ´s actually made for torturing animals. They all have important other reasons for there actions, like science or food.
Not that I have something against vegan lifestyle, but isn't it unfair, do destroy other properties, just because of their own ideas of ethics and morals.
I mean, the farmers also need to live.
And even if they believe, there actions are right and reasonable, others could think differently.
There's no right to do things like that!
Nederdien 2 years ago
Some animals just die in vain though,
for things as stupid as trying to see what it's like to be a blind child, or what are the effects oif moking, or make up and shampoo! We know those, and can do without
Vegetarian andvegan life styles are perfectly liveable, so factory farms should be gottenrid of, and wearing fur is only necessary for those who grow it.
MarmaladeMonster 1 year ago
Jeez, my comments have been in & out of spam so many times they've now been entered in the Guinness Book, lol. Whoever keeps unspamming them: I love you!
1221solstice2012 2 years ago 12
@1221solstice2012 Wow, you are truly an idiot! Animals don't have rights!
Wheeburger 1 year ago
@Wheeburger Most people on this page including me disagree with you. Retarded children don't have rights either! Just because they can't control their emotions and bare thoughts, that means they don't have rights, right!? Now think for a second, why should animals be left to suffer for some people's superiority complexes?
vgman94 1 year ago
@vgman94 Simple, they're animals.
Wheeburger 1 year ago
@Wheeburger We're animals too buddy. And being an animal means nothing as to whether we treat them right or not. It's the same as saying in WWII "Why should we treat the Jews so badly?" "Beceause they're Jews." Simply a stupid ideas. They can feel pain, emotions and fear. If the same happened to us by another race, you'd be crying and begging. Then you'd know how it feels to be in so much pain. Animals are not things, much less made for any purpose, espeically not for our use.
vgman94 1 year ago
@vgman94 If I want to eat a hamburger I'm going to do it so fuck you.
cincyblows 4 months ago
@cincyblows And if aliens come down and enslave us, let them do it since they're stronger. So fuck you. Selfish people are idiotic.
vgman94 4 months ago
@vgman94 No, assclown. Fuck you from a high dive. You don't have the balls and and never will.
cincyblows 4 months ago
@cincyblows The balls for what? To kill you? If I could, I would, asshole. Murderers and manslaughterers shouldn't get off scot free. The least I would do is shoot your legs, lock you up and melt the key.
vgman94 4 months ago
@vgman94 Fuck you. I'd fucking rip your head off and use it for a fucking bowling ball. Tonight I'll have another steak while you eat shit. You really are a quivering little pussy aren't you little man?
cincyblows 4 months ago
@cincyblows Aw, look at that pathetic little tantrum. You must feel threatened to get so angry. Poor little child. You must know somewhere deep in your mind that whyat you're doing is wrong. It feels wrong, but you're too lazy and scared of changing, so you fight against it. Poor, lost child. May you wake up one day and find enlightenment.
vgman94 4 months ago
@vgman94 You again? I THOUGHT I smelled pussy.
cincyblows 4 months ago
@cincyblows I feel sorry for your fools.
vgman94 4 months ago
@vgman94 I don't feel sorry for you. Especially now that my forward sight is aligned.
cincyblows 4 months ago
@cincyblows Oh, I'm so scared. At least you'd be jailed for my murder. You get away with murdering animals far too much. The time will come when you'll have to pay and answer for your deeds. You'll see.
vgman94 4 months ago
@vgman94 Hey cunt. You're the one who started this shit. Now that I gave you your own shit you're crying like the quivering little pussy I know you are. "The time will come when you'll have to pay and answer for your deeds. You'll see." Meaning what, little man? Tell me. That sounds like a threat. Is that what you're doing, pussyboy? Threatening me? btw you fuckhead, animals aren't human and therefore they can't be "murdered". That is, unless YOU "murder" vegetables.
vgman94 18 hours ago
cincyblows 4 months ago
@cincy I was writing to wheeburger and you reply out of nowhere with your mindless shit. What did I mean by that? You're threatened, I see. What I meant is that in the afterlife, you'll pay for your deeds. In terms of sentience, animals are not very different than you and killing them is very much like killing a human. Murder is killing of beings without need. Animals are beings. Stop trying to act superior by tryiing to step on weaker creatures so you don't feel like the worthless shit you are.
vgman94 4 months ago
@vgman94 It would take a shitload more balls than you'll ever have to make me feel threatened, junior. And you're the ones who have to hide behind computer screens and your mommys' scarves. Golly how brave.
cincyblows 4 months ago
@cincyblows My mom doesn't even have scarfs. Animals are BEINGS. They can feel pain, they possess emotions, they have the same wish for happiness and fear of suffering as humans do. Murder applies only to humans ONLY in legal definitions, not in philosophical and moral ones. You're the one that attacked me first since you're too scared to admit that you're afraid of us. You don't want to be forced to stop torturing animals indirectly for your pleasures. Well guess what? You're a moral criminal
vgman94 4 months ago
@vgman94 lol Right. Moral criminal. I'm not the one destroying other peoples' property and issuing death threats. You are. You hide behind scarves and ski masks because you lack the courage of your convictions. Otherwise you'd be willing to go to prison for your cause, what with it being oh-so-"moral" and all. I think you feel shame in what you do and that's one of the reasons you wear masks -because you know it's wrong to to run around acting like some little punk terrorist wannabe.
cincyblows 4 months ago
"peoples' property". Animals are not moral property and they're used for economic purposes, so attacking economic property is hitting them where the deserve. Dumbass, wake up. Any intelligent person would hide their identity. If you had a cause you were willing to fight for, you'd use the same si mask tactics. Staying out of prison allows them to save more animals, so it's not about sentencing. I'm an ALF supporter, not one who actually does those things and I still support their decisions.
vgman94 4 months ago
@vgman94 So you're saying you're too gutless to even put on a ski mask and follow through on your convictions in total anonymity? ROFL!!! They might stay out of prison for awhile, but there might come a time when they attack private property and get shot by someone even crazier than them or you. I hope that never happens; what a waste of a perfectly good bullet.
cincyblows 4 months ago
@cincyblows Do you even know what forensic techniques they use today? It's getting harder to hide from the law everyday and since this attacks the economy, they use resources equal to those in murder case. Perfect waste of a good bullet? So you'd rather shoot an animal then? Sick fucks like you should be used for target practice. You don't take anything seriously that doesn't have anything to do with your precious humans. You care for 9/11, Haiti and Japan, but not innocent animals. Faggot.
vgman94 4 months ago
@vgman94 When you grow a pair big enough to drag your fat atrophying ass out from behind that computer screen, junior, you're going to be surprised by this thing called life. You know, as in you need to get a.
cincyblows 4 months ago
@cincyblows As for your joke: Wow. Such a SMART come back. You must feel so superior with that ingeniously unintelligent reply. Your mother must cry herself to sleep at night with the devil spawn she made.
vgman94 4 months ago
@vgman94 Not only do I feel superior to you, I am superior to you. Thank you for noticing. Oh, and the "your mom" jokes are more than a little outdated. No one except an ignorant, mouthy punk talks like -never mind. Carry on.
cincyblows 4 months ago
@cincyblows PS: Vegetables can't be murdered because they don't feel a thing. Not fear, anger, despair or pain. Animals feel all of that (except MAYBE despair, but it's a possibility) and to a similar degree as us. Sad little wimpy cunt. Can't stand living without acting like you're better than SOMETHING, eh? Pathetically fragile egos like yours should be broken with extreme prejudice.
vgman94 4 months ago
@vgman94 Jesus God what a fucking idiot you are. That was called sarcasm you fucking moron. Animals DON'T have the depth or range of emotions that people do. You're committing anthropromorphic fallacy, junior. Funny how you call me a "sad little wimpy cunt" when you're the ones hiding behind bandanas and computer screens. You fucks just can't take having someone tell you like it is, can you? Fuckin' pussies.
cincyblows 4 months ago
@vgman94 No shit, fuckhead. Animals can't be murdered because THEY'RE NOT HUMAN. It's called anthropromorphic fallacy. And if I'm the "sad little wimpy cunt" then why are YOU the ones hiding behind computer screens and your mommys' bandanas? Fragile ego? You're projecting again. And revealing how weak you are when it comes to getting pushed back. I can see you can't take. You really are a bunch of pussies.
cincyblows 4 months ago
@cincy ... And we'kll get you one day for that. You sick-headed, mindless monsters will suffer for you sick deeds. If you could feel what animals feel, then you'd understand. But instead of researching, you try to troll intelligent people with actual arguments because you can't think about anything and are too scared to admit you're even scared. Sick fuck. Projecting takes specific mental faculties and traits. You don't know me, and your willingness to make immature insults bodes badly for you.
vgman94 4 months ago
@vgman94 I'll ask you again: if I'm the one who's scared then why are you the ones hiding behind scarves and ski masks? And why does ALF lack contact info on its webpage? Answer: because you're PUSSIES who have to hide from people who can stand up to you. "And we'kll get you one day for that." Really? Go for it. So far you've shown an alarming lack of courage, intelligence, and rational thought. Congratulations on your trifecta (I'll let you look that big word up).
cincyblows 4 months ago
@cincyblows If you were doing something illegal, you'd be scared too, no matter WHAT it is. Grow a pair and learn some honesty. It's only natural to try to escape, for yourself and to save more animals. Rational thought? LOL. You think you have rational thought? I'd like to see you kill a fully grown bear WITHOUT a gun. We all know hunters and anthropocentric assholes are pussies anyway. The fact that ALF members even break the law shows a lot of bravery. You just don't want to see it.
vgman94 4 months ago
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Can anyone please tell me what I marked as spam? On the other hand, look what he has marked spam. I'm outta here till later, lest I go insane...
1221solstice2012 2 years ago 17
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Yes, and now you mark spam what you cannot address with science, reason or logic. Very revealing. You fear me. And you should
Because nothing you say can change the facts. Penicillin has saved millions (if not billions) all over the world. Treatments like malarone and quinine have reduced the scourge of malaria which kills millions. Vaccines. Polio, flu, HPV. Chemotherapy: breast cancer, prostate cancer, leukemia in children (death sentence 50 years ago). Insulin for diabetics
IlSeFousDeTaGuele 2 years ago
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The falsified data was from the VIGOR study, the HUMAN study that showed increased heart attack risk. The animal studies were inconclusive, misleading, cruel, lucrative, cynical, as always.
FLENAC (Fenclofenac) 1990: passed toxicity tests in mice, rats,guinea pigs, ferrets, rabbits, cats,dogs, pigs, horses, and monkeys; produced severe liver toxicity in humans; NSAID (anti-inflammatory)
I know, "this was a misunderstanding too, I have no intelligent arguments so I resort to violence, blah blah."
1221solstice2012 2 years ago 15
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Reap what you sow, people. Animal-tested Vioxx: 140,000 dead & 320,000 developed serious heart problems. Vioxx was not only safe but protective against heart problems in several different animal studies. They are not our models; this is not science. I can post another killer drug for each new reply from an animal researcher. Why not just agree to disagree (lol, puke) instead?
1221solstice2012 2 years ago 18
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Penicillin, millions saved, all over the world. Vaccines. Polio, flu, HPV. Chemotherapy: breast cancer, prostate cancer, leukemia in children (which was a death sentence 50 years ago). Insulin.
Sure we make mistakes (aspirin would never be approved in today's environment). And at the same time, we save millions every year. In all likelyhood, if you are older than 30, we have saved you.
Thanks to animal testing. And vioxx is an example of where people falsified data, and were caught
IlSeFousDeTaGuele 2 years ago
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We can agree to disagree when you utterly reject violent methods. Until then, you are nothing more than another street thug trying to hold people up at the point of a gun.
And son, I don't respond favorably to threats. I grew up in a ghetto, and the only reason we escaped the grinding poverty and crime was to stand up to the motherfuckers (don't snitch).
I will never, ever, lay down in the face of force. Ever. You have abdicated your argument when you use force.
IlSeFousDeTaGuele 2 years ago
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I know solstice does that. So do you. Because you are cultists. Your beliefs have nothing to do with science, and that is why we ignore you.
Eventually you may grow up, and realize your goals won't be reached by violence. The more arsons & bombings you do, the less effective you are, and the more you damage the cause of animal rights.
Enjoy your utter failure. No wonder you have to use violence.
IlSeFousDeTaGuele 2 years ago
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He tends to skip the facts which prove him wrong and instead bang on about violence and what not.
All he has left tbh, poor lad
muchlove59 2 years ago 7
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All six of them recovered. Try reading on for size. Their interviews are public. I know you can't handle it when the facts don't fit your agenda, but really.
No wonder you have to resort to violence. You don't have an intelligent argument to offer.
IlSeFousDeTaGuele 2 years ago
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You totally ignore the fact of the extreme, terrible, life-threatening, and damaging reaction in humans after the drug passed the animal tests with flying colors. Instead, I'm "violent." Typical.
You need to set your angry ego aside, stop being a cruel creature of habit, and explore all of the excellent and scientific non-animal research methods. Until you can do that, please stop replying to my comments. I'm sick of this.
1221solstice2012 2 years ago 15
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Oh my God, you are so dishonest. I did not ignore it. I acknowledged it. And such things happen. Sometimes people die.
And you are deliberately ignoring the THOUSANDS of drugs that have been successful, and for whom animal testing was crucial. Not to mention the entire science of biochemistry.
I will stop replying to your comments when you stop posting bullshit.
And we DO explore non-animal research methods, which is why we haven't stopped using animals yet. None is satisfactory.
IlSeFousDeTaGuele 2 years ago
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Yeah, right:
All 6 people given TGN1412 developed systemic inflammatory response within 90 minutes: rapid induction of circulating proinflammatory cytokines...headache, myalgia, nausea, diarrhea, erythema, vasodilation & hypotension; critically ill in 12-24 hrs: pulmonary infiltrates & injury, kidney failure & disseminated intravascular coagulation; so ill they required mechanical breathing, dialysis & infusion of frozen plasma & cryoprecipitate to stop the coagulopathy.
Then there's long-term.
1221solstice2012 2 years ago 7
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And that is the bottom line.
You are welcome. You are welcome for the technologies that allow you to be spoiled and foolish enough to criticise what you obviously are not intelligent enough to appreciate.
The whole green movement... where do you think the data came from for us to know how dangerous mercury is, or lead, or pesticides? Animal testing.
You are welcome. Spoiled little children.
HumanShot 2 years ago
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We test millions of compounds yearly. Spend years trying to learn why certain species can be infected with HIV (for instance) and not suffer disease. Thanks to these studies, we have learned about receptors like CCR5. Developed drugs that have turned HIV from a death sentence to a disease that people live WITH not die FROM.
And every single one of you reading these comments have benefitted from antibiotics, vaccines, medical techniques and tests developed from animal testing.
HumanShot 2 years ago
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"penicillin kills guinea pigs" Sure. Which is why we use several different species in every drug trial. Pigs, monkeys, rats, mice, guinea pigs, and so on. In an attempt to measure both the beneficial effects, and anticipate negative effects.
As with all human endeavors, we are not perfect. But we are trying
It is easy for those who have not accomplished anything to snipe at our methods, and pick out our failures. They are well documented, because that is what we do to learn from them
HumanShot 2 years ago
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TGN1412 is a well documented case where animal testing obviously did not help. However "devastated the health of all six" is not an accurate statement. 4 of them recovered fully within 72 hours, and 2 others had longer term recovery. At this time, all of the patients seem to have fully recovered.
Documented in Cytokine Storm in a Phase 1 Trial of the Anti-CD28 Monoclonal Antibody TGN1412, and thousands of other studies.
Your statements are misleading and dishonest and damages your case.
HumanShot 2 years ago
What HumanShot said might sound logical to the uninitiated, but remember that penicillin kills guinea pigs, so if they'd been used to test it instead of mice, penicillin would've been discarded. The common practice is to find a few species that have a positive result as the excuse to test in humans. Thus we have TGN1412 which tested safe in mice, monkeys & several others and devastated the health of all 6 human subjects.
That soul destroying term "necessary evil" should never have been embraced.
1221solstice2012 2 years ago 20
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IF we didn't have animals to use for testing, a LOT more drugs that are harmful would slip through to human clinical trials.
We have tried going direct to human in the past. And discovered the hard way that is extremely dangerous. Using animals, we eliminate the vast majority of compounds early on.
And you are lying when you say that animals do not produce accurate results useful as human analogues. They are not 100%, but 50% saves human lives, by the millions.
HumanShot 2 years ago
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Ah yes. The cry of the ignorant. If you aren't perfect, you are incompetent & evil. Why don't you guys talk about the thousands of effective, beneficial drugs, treatments, vaccines and tests that have been developed thanks to animal testing.
Oh yeah. Because that doesn't fit your agenda. So you can't admit the truth: Every drug, every antibiotic, every vaccine, every medical test, and every surgery are thanks to animal research.
Sure we get things wrong too, that is why we do trials.
HumanShot 2 years ago
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I read some more on that TGN1412, man it sound like they are going to have loads of different types of cancers for their whole life from that 'animal safe' product.
muchlove59 2 years ago 2
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Your new comment got in between your first one and my reply. Yeah, like I say, no other branch of science would get away with what they do. It's so damn sad.
I'll see you later...
1221solstice2012 2 years ago 4
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To whom it may concern,
From YouTube Safety Center: "Mark as Spam" feature:
Please use the "Mark as Spam" feature with extreme caution, as those who misuse it may be prohibited from using the site.
1221solstice2012 2 years ago 3
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Looks like mr Ras is going to get into trouble.
muchlove59 2 years ago
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I doubt it. I tried to take the spam mark off your comments, but it won't work. Someone got mine here out of spam, so I wonder why not yours. Anyways, stay strong!
1221solstice2012 2 years ago 2
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It's important for you to have the last word isn't it, animal "researcher." You need to feel like the victor, even though you already claim massive victory an infinite number of times and that everything right is on your side, lol.
At the right time, your soul will be dealt with appropriately.
Animals are not our models, and if they were, what you do would still be disgustingly wrong. This is not how humans were meant to be, before things went wrong. You'll see...
*TGN1412*
1221solstice2012 2 years ago 4
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Ouch, nasty stuff.
muchlove59 2 years ago
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This argument is just retardedly repetitive and circular now.
You want to do it, we don't want you to do it. Things will either change or they won't.
There will always be people who will fight for what they believe in, history is rich in such movements. In time enough support will be gathered where it will change or it won't. As it stands it grows consistantly so we shall see what the future brings.
Public awareness of what happens in there will ultimately be the deciding factor
muchlove59 2 years ago
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Dude, your just plain boring me now.
p.s, name one instance where i have used violence please.
muchlove59 2 years ago
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And your bias is laughable. "Death labs." Pathetic. Why don't you try making a well reasoned, logical argument. Then you might get some support. As it is, you are a bunch of internet posers and a few radicals. From your attitudes, and utter lack of an intelligent argument, it is not suprising that you have to use violence.
I've read through your posts. You didn't make a single intelligent argument. Dismissed.
Nousides 2 years ago
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Humanity has a vested interest in keeping the labs open, because that is where our advances in medical science come from. It is how we have doubled the average life expectancy of Man in the last century, and that is an accomplishment worth celebrating. We have virtually eliminated many childhood diseases. You are bitter and angry because you don't like the fact we use animals. The day a superior alternative is available, we will use it.
Nousides 2 years ago
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You have a vested interest in keeping these death labs open which is fair enough, Greed is a powerful motivator and certainly has propelled man to do many horrible things in it's pursuit.
We can argue in this loop until the cows come home, you'll always think what they do in their in right, and i'll always think it is wrong and should be done on humans.
muchlove59 2 years ago
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Did you really just spend the last 7 hours trying to think of replies while i was asleep.
That is so sad.
Simple fact is animal testing has NO bearing on a human and no one would EVER rely on animal testing until it is tested on a HUMAN, which most of the time will give different results anyway.
Science is no excuse for the reckless torture they happily inflict.
And why do you keep talking to yourself with other accounts, it is really sad dude.
muchlove59 2 years ago 2
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From one of IISeFous...'s "pals":
"No one gives a shit what you fringe morons have to say. ...IN an average day, I don't even THINk about you guys, and I work in a lab every day."
He claims all of science, wisdom, the public, everything good on his side. ALF supporters & ALF are "a tiny fringe group of lunatic morons that nobody listens to, everybody hates," yet he keeps spraying poison in these videos in an endless stream of tirades to try to prove his case....Rather curious.
Google TGN1412....
1221solstice2012 2 years ago 5
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Tell you what. How about you be honest with the people in Britain. Tell the mothers of Britain that you want to return to a world were 1 in three children died as infants, and 50% of the rest died before 18 from simple infections and childhood disease.
Explain to them that modern medicine has never cured anything, that it is all a fraud because it is based on animal studies, which according to you are worthless.
Be honest, for once. Your organization is based on stupidity and lies.
IlSeFousDeTaGuele 2 years ago
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"We were better off before you pumped us full of pills"
Have you ever seen a case of polio? How about smallpox? Dysentery? Cholera? Watched a man dying of AIDS? How about metastatic cancer? How about a 4 year old dying of type 1 diabetes? Or a simple shaving cut resulting in death from a staph infection? Strep throat deaths?
Yeah we were so much better off! Crippling disease, sky-high infant mortality, 50% adolescent death rates.
Yeah. I would say we are better off.
IlSeFousDeTaGuele 2 years ago
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" last 30 years"
Really? Strawman much. Do you have an intelligent argument to offer, or are you going to keep telling me what I think? I guess you are a pretty good mindreader.
And the reason animal testing isn't going anywhere soon, is because science supports it, and people want it. And quite frankly we do value human life over animal. And that isn't going to change.
IlSeFousDeTaGuele 2 years ago
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"products tested on animals which resulted in those lines being withdrawn." Really? Which pharmaceuticals.
Again, your claims have nothing to do with medical testing, medical techniques or pharmaceuticals, which is all I have ben talking about. I could care less about animal testing of shampoo.
What you don't realize, is it was scientists like me, who helped to have that kind of testing eliminated.
And the reason medical testing hasn't changed is it is based in solid science.
IlSeFousDeTaGuele 2 years ago
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"We were better off before you pumped us full of pills" Wow! I AM a sneaky bastard. What pills have I been stuffing down your gullet?
Anything for paranoia? You might want to look into that. I would say something for brains, but unfortunately we don't have any pills to help your IQ yet.
What drugs do you take?
"blow holes in your paper thin arguments tomorow" Oh yes, by admitting that we have doubled the average lifespan in the last 100 years thanks to modern medicine. Bravo!
IlSeFousDeTaGuele 2 years ago
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"Fur farms have all but moved away" And what does that have to do with labs or medical research?
"the labs struggle" Really? I will have to ask my collegues about that. Haven't heard any complaints.
"Life expectancy has gone up" Ah so you flirt briefly with reality, congratulations
"quality has completely nosedived" Really? Perhaps for you. I would say my family's quality of life is outstanding. But I am not a delusional twat. I can understand why you would be depressed.
IlSeFousDeTaGuele 2 years ago
Leash: I am not interested in your sexual proclivities. Stick to the goats out back.
"Made an entire nation sick" Really? Is that what you call doubling the life expectancy in the last 100 years.
You know why your movement is a failure, and will remain so. You have no honest or real arguments. And you are not dealing with people dumb enough to buy your bullshit.
IlSeFousDeTaGuele 2 years ago
is that why it grows by the day, guess your maths ability holds about the same amount as your argument
muchlove59 2 years ago 3
And being sick for most of your life is hardly living but i guess you think it makes sense to dribble in a wheelchair for your last 30 years.
Life expectancy has gone up but the quality has completely nosedived to a ridiculously bad level.
We were better off before you pumped us full of pills, and now i must go to bed, its 2 am.
I'll continue to blow holes in your paper thin arguments tomorow, toodles.
muchlove59 2 years ago 3
UK massively influenced? Name me one pharmaceutical, surgery, medical test, or technique in the UK which has not been tested on animals.
And when you get tired of wasting your time trying to find one, tell me again how the alf has changed any of what I am talking about.
IlSeFousDeTaGuele 2 years ago
You don't keep up with current events much do you.
Fur farms have all but moved away, the labs struggle to get contracts to deliver to them because alf target the vehicles and the animals that are bred for the labs are constantly rescued, obviously not all of them.
There was a campaign that targetted products tested on animals which resulted in those lines being withdrawn.
The UK loves animals and whenever you get exposed as the nutters you are, fur flies, lol
muchlove59 2 years ago 4
And in the process made an entire nation sick, making the usa a nation of pill poppers for things that would be fine without msg, filthy air water and contaminated animals and the untold amount of supposed good things you invent only to discover at a later date that is will give you brain cancer or something (aspartame for one if i recall)
You nutters need to be kept on a leash
muchlove59 2 years ago 3
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Lets see. Developments in modern medicine that have saved millions of lives, thanks to medical testing.
Polio vaccine, Flu vaccines, Prostate cancer treatment, Chemotherapy, Anti-Rho antibodies, Coombs testing, X-rays, every antibiotic ever made, every anaesthetic, every analgesic, every steroid, proton pump inhibitors, beta blockers, insulin, blood typing and cross matching, DNA sequencing, PCR, ELISA, Western, Southern, all the HIV drugs.
All modern medicine. All of it. Ain't changin.
IlSeFousDeTaGuele 2 years ago
Test on humans, get human results, gasp.
Test on animals, get flawed results, long list of people dead,dying and complete incompatability. (see1221solstice page)
As a doctor mentioned on one of the films on youtube, a doctor will NEVER rely on animal research for a human diagnosis.
Your obsession with torturing animals leaves us more exposed because what you think is safe then turns around and kills aload of us or a nice new ailment, good job
muchlove59 2 years ago 2
And until you mindless cultists can come up with an intelligent argument actually based in objective science, your movement will get precisely no-where.
And yes, it is people like me who will see to it.
We aren't going to be influenced by your pseudoreligious beliefs, and threats only solidify our resolve. You are no better than those extremists who murder abortion doctors to try to stop abortion.
Ain't going to work son.
IlSeFousDeTaGuele 2 years ago
Well if you are going to lie about I.T which is a field i'm shit hot in, i'm going to call you out as a liar and a retard.
You say you won't be influenced, abit late for that because the UK has already been MASSIVELY influenced.
Sorry to burst your animal torturing bubble but it does work, sucks for you, haha
muchlove59 2 years ago 3
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Why should I lie about it. The history is clear and available publically. Which is why your movement is an utter failure.
Insulin, antibiotics, every vaccine ever made, every chemotherapy, surgical technique, every test, every single one of them are tested on animals every year.
IlSeFousDeTaGuele 2 years ago
How's that? Extreme anti-abortionists have actually murdered people, ALF hasn't.
You can't change the very basic scientific fact that animals are not models for humans. Period. You don't need "alternatives" because there is only one: Real Science - always obeying the Hippocratic Oath: Above all, do no harm...(a totally alien concept to someone who probably still loves pulling the wings off flies, even with all your other sadistic indulgences).
Remember: Mathematical certainty...Action / Reaction
1221solstice2012 2 years ago 4
Scientific fact: The real guinea pigs (humans) are responsible for all medical advances. Animal results are always hit-or-miss, cause human deaths & injuries, and are used to obtain grants and to reassure the human test subjects.
If penicillin would have been tested in guinea pigs, which was the common practice, it would have been discarded because it kills guinea pigs. Hit...or...miss.
You are entirely ruled by emotion: mainly hate; it shows in all your writing...your arrogance does too.
1221solstice2012 2 years ago 5
No other branch of science would get away with the diabolical nonsense vivisection does. Fact: 2006: TGN1412 was tested in mice,rats,rabbits & monkeys & was safe/effective, then caused multiple organ failure, near death & permanent immune system damage in all 6 human subjects after 1 dose. At 500x doses even primates were safe from those effects.
Want more examples?
Better substitute needed? I suppose we need a better substitute for child abuse, etc., before stopping that.
1221solstice2012 2 years ago 6
Fact penicillin was first tested on mice. Fact every pharmaceutical in the world was first tested on non-human animals. Fact, that isn't going to change anytime soon. Fact, every surgical technique in the world is first tested on animals. Fact, that will never change.
And the reason it won't is because it is scientific. We aren't cult members like you. We aren't ruled by emotion. We are ruled by reason.
Hurry up boy, invent a better substitute. And then we will stop using animals.
IlSeFousDeTaGuele 2 years ago
And I guess you have some software on your phone to prevent that being traceable too *rollseyes* Yah right. And yes alf is worldwide. You need a population of 6 billion to find a few thousand dumb enough to fall for your pitch. And the facts are that animal testing is essential to medicine & science, and for those reasons it won't be stopping anytime soon.
And if it does, it won't be because of threats of violence, it will be because we found a better substitute. Or the alfies volunteer
IlSeFousDeTaGuele 2 years ago
Lol, i give up. You have beaten me down. I simply cannot compete with how retarded you are and how little you seem to know about anything you dribble about.
Your like the last nutter on earth screaming that the whole is flat and man is the centre of the universe.
I'm off to bed and will leave you to burble incoherently about whatever.
Don't waste your breath 1221, the guy is terminally dumb.
P.s, your knowledge of how phone traces work as well is pretty lol but i'll leave it there for now
muchlove59 2 years ago
Yes I know. Dumb. Retarded. Stupid. I must be them all. And yet you are wrong, and I am right. And I am last? Really? Then why are we still doing animal testing. All over the world. 9 major primate centers in the US alone (1 less than a mile from my lab, where I get my monkeys). Every medical journal in the world. Every major department of biochemisty, biology, medicine, pharmacology ALL use animals for testing.
Yes we are all idiots. Penicillin doesn't exist...
IlSeFousDeTaGuele 2 years ago
Dude, your boring me to death, it was cute in a mouth breathing kind of way but now it's like nails on a chalk board.
I don't care anymore, you were fun to play with but your too stupid to have a hard debate with.
I can't take anyone seriously who has to bounce from different accounts to argue, that's just plain sad.
muchlove59 2 years ago
You are bored because you are are intentionally obtuse. You cannot actually examine the science, because your cult beliefs cannot survive them.
Look up mother fetus incompatibility and how that was solved (without which fetal death rates double overnight). Coombs tests. The development of x-rays. All antibiotics. Every surgical technique. The ECG and EKG.
ALL dependent on animal testing.
As for your fantasies about multiple accounts. That is just another pathetic strawman.
IlSeFousDeTaGuele 2 years ago
I cannot argue with you anymore, it hurts the brain how ignorant you are. You want to support the lunatics in labcoats killing and beating the animals , fine. It's your choice.
I understand science but as my main field has been in nutrition and sports related science, i also understand how alot of the crap you make makes people even worse and make society think it needs something it does not.
You lot made a G.M.O recently that makes it's own pesticide, which we ingest.
Well done
muchlove59 2 years ago
You aren't arguing. You just keep calling me dumb. You haven't provided any evidence whatsoever of any of your claims. You say we have never cured anything, and I give you a dozen examples. Proved wrong.
You say you have better alternatives than animal testing, and yet you have yet to name one. You have yet to name a single pharmaceutical in the history of modern medicine that wasn't developed with animal testing, or surgical technique, or test.
No intelligent argument = no case.
IlSeFousDeTaGuele 2 years ago
Yes you call me ignorant, and yet you don't know the first thing about how pharmaceuticals are developed, much less why we use animal testing. You call me ignorant, and yet I graduated AOA from my medical school at Brown.
Very amusing. And you know, you have made an enemy for your cause. Initially I came here to learn about the alf and its members. You have thoroughly convinced me you are a bunch of emotionally stunted uneducated twats.
Animal testing isn't going to stop any time soon
IlSeFousDeTaGuele 2 years ago
And son, your strawmen are just pathetic. I never claimed to know how phone traces work. I know that every phone call you make, every post you make, every time you connect to the internet, your IP address is recorded and known. And there isn't a damn thing you can do about it. And if you have any questions you might want to ask your friends the FBI snapped up.
Ask Peter Young how they tracked him down and put him in club fed for 2 years. Hmmm.
IlSeFousDeTaGuele 2 years ago
aaaaaaaa, how can someone be this dumb
O.....MY....GOD.
If your hiding the I.P adress, your isp won't know it is you and if anyone tries to trace you while your doing whatever, you show up at a random add around the world.
Jesus god your a moron.
Fbi doesn't really have alot of say in England believe it or not. Wierd isn't it. Shall i explain it slower so your brain can catch up or write it in big chalk letters
Poster boy for retards anonymous, haha
muchlove59 2 years ago
I don't know how anyone can be as dumb as you. Ask your mother. Perhaps she made love to a chimp.
And again, I am the moron, and yet you are the one who denies what is historical. How smart is that? You ignore the truth because it isn't convenient for your cult beliefs.
Well whether you like it or not. Every pharmaceutical you have ever seen, or taken. Every medical test, or surgical technique were ALL developed with animal testing.
IlSeFousDeTaGuele 2 years ago
"If your hiding the I.P adress, your isp won't know it is" ROFLOL! Go on a compuer science forum and explain that. No wonder you cannot handle even basic information.
You cannot hide your IP from your ISP. They provide you the connection, and you have an IP with them. In their computer. It can change from time to time, but they always know what account is accessing them. So if you don't pay your bill, they turn you off.
IlSeFousDeTaGuele 2 years ago
Omg, i can't believe just how stupid you are. You seriously believe the vomit spewing on your keyboard.
It would be funny if you weren't deadly serious about it. I'm honestly amazed, you run a lab supposedly and try to sound clever but you have so little knowledge about advanced security measures.
The world is still flat as well isn't it dear, bless.
Dur dur, you can't hide you ip, duuurrrr, hahahaha, what a knob
muchlove59 2 years ago
Yes call me stupid again. And yet, animal testing still goes on. And yet, animal testing is crucial to every development in modern medicine of the last 200 years.
And yes, I am deadly serious about it. Because the science is solidly behind MY point of view, and you are yet to voice an intelligent argument.
You call me stupid. That is your argument. No wonder you guys have to resort to violence. You certainly have no intelligent case to offer.
IlSeFousDeTaGuele 2 years ago
Jesus, you don't have a job do you. All day every day you are here. No wonder your movement is a failure. And your comment about stupid people is right. So I won't debate you. These guys are right. Animal testing is crucial to medicine, and it won't stop anytime soon.
IlSeFousDeTaGuele 2 years ago
You know you can reply to this stuff from a phone don't you.
Moron.
You pro lab torture nutters are really stupid. And dumb too, you totally avoid the fact that the birthplace of the A.L.F has had massive influence and it has been growing into a worldwide movement.
But don't let facts get in the way of you dribbling onto your keyboard.
muchlove59 2 years ago 3
All things aside though, it is quite sad that you are using another account to support yourself. You sound like a very sad individual :#(.
I'm staggered that you seem so clueless about anonymous i.p software and you claim to be really intelligent. I've said repeatedly it isn't a service i use, it is software you can get from any torrent easily.
If your going to lie about something, don't do it with someone who knows what they are talking about.
And stop talking to yourself saddo
muchlove59 2 years ago 3
Trying to debate with stupid people is like trying to lick your own elbow.
I'm simply amazed you are able to breathe unaided as you seem to be so mind bending retarded. Try to remember to breathe every now and again if you can.
The whole i.p thing is hilarious because you don't have a clue what you're talking about
Continue supporting the lunatics in labcoats and i'll keep supporting those who fight to stop there evil.
muchlove59 2 years ago 3
I have read through your comments and you are yet to get a single thing right. Your IP is recorded by the ISP. No software in the world changes that fact. And assume you use an anonymizer service. The day that a terrorist act gets attributed to you, they are going to turn over your IP information. They aren't going to go to jail for you.
But talking to you is a waste of time. You are a cultist. And you have lost the debate.
Rasnixful 2 years ago
And you are wrong. But you are the kind of person that stares into the sun and denies the existence of light. It is science, and science only. And the reason you "animal rights" idiots have to resort to violence is you have no intelligent, or reasonable case to present. Humanshot is right. It isn't going to change until there is a better alternative. And the only people who will be hurt by alf action are the alfies, when society starts treating you like the criminals you are.
Rasnixful 2 years ago
It's all about money, simple as that.
Humans are generally good at heart and as more become aware of what these lunatics in lab coats are doing in the name of profit, more will join and stop this disgusting and medieval practice.
Failure, are you joking? lol, they have had an enormous impact in the UK .
Sorry little miss but times are changing, this isn't the stone age anymore
muchlove59 2 years ago 2
And yet, you are the one supporting a failure of a terrorist movement. Hmmm. And he is working as a doctor, respected in his community, saving lives. Educated, well paid.
Its not greed, son. It is science. And that is why it isn't changing.
HumanShot 2 years ago
Actually, it will continue for the moment because GREED supports it.
You are the very definition of stupidity.
muchlove59 2 years ago
Shows what good thinking does you. Animal testing will continue because the science supports it.
When we have a viable alternative, we will change to it. Of course the actions of groups like alf push that day back, and harden the attitudes of scientists such as myself.
Whereas I might be willing to use an imperfect substitute at a greater cost before, now I will go for the cheap and readily available animal. If for no other reason to piss in your collective
Nousides 2 years ago
faces.
And what other account son. You are paranoid and delusional on top of poorly educated and very likely stupid.
Nousides 2 years ago
I think they should test on the lunatics in labcoats
muchlove59 2 years ago
dude, you haven't got to post with another account to make it look like you have friends. I won't think any less of you than i already do.
And i do find it pretty funny how you claim to be so bright but don't have a clue how I.T works apparently.
I think you need to stop drooling in a puddle and maybe go back to school because clearly you're lacking in the brain department.
Would you test on humans to get a cure for an animal, of course not, it would be stupid, moron
muchlove59 2 years ago
Really? You are the one supporting a terrorist group. Seems that dumb is as dumb does. Oh... and there is no software in the world that is going to prevent your ISP from recording your IP. So your calling other people dumb is really
Dumb.
Ah.. not to mention you are antiscientific, and he is not. Again. Dumb.
Nousides 2 years ago
Funny how you guys cannot convince people of your point of view so you resort to violence.
I wonder how long it will be before the rest of us get tired of you mosquitos, and decide to use the full force of law to jail you, or the force of the military to kill you.
Less and less all the time.
HumanShot 2 years ago
"services to protect your IP"
And they will turn over your IP as soon as they are presented with a subpoena. Good luck with your theories.
HumanShot 2 years ago
I'd like to see that subpoena, for suspicion of improper thoughts/speech. Get some love in your heart and stop being a brute. There is a mathematical certainty in the universe: action and reaction.
1221solstice2012 2 years ago 3
Oh it wouldn't be for improper thoughts. It is for terroristic threats and conspiracy to commit arson.
You can try to play your semantic games with the government. Good luck with that.
Nousides 2 years ago
An interesting psychological study: The guilt induced paranoia of the vivisector. No animals used, obviously. Do you know how crazy you sound by assuming everyone's a college student or ALF member plotting violence against you? At least it shows you have a buried conscience; now move on to the next step...
1221solstice2012 2 years ago
Vivisector? ROFLOL! What are you from the 14th century? The taliban would love you, fucking luddite.
Well guess what son. No one gives a shit what you fringe morons have to say. You are less than an inconvenience to me. IN an average day, I don't even THINk about you guys, and I work in a lab every day.
You can moan, you can piss, and we still run the world. Enjoy your wasted life.
HumanShot 2 years ago
You never think about us, yet here you are...
Am I from the 14th Century, or all centuries? Im very technologically advanced, not at all a Luddite.
We wont have to bear your malignancy for much longer. When it does, that figurative pendulum is going to swing back with a vengeance.
Its almost time.
Or am I a delusional nut? ...Yes, that's it...
tick tock
1221solstice2012 2 years ago 2
Yes you are delusional. And animal testing isn't stopping anytime soon. And in fact the existence of groups like alf have harmed the animal rights agenda because reasonable, intelligent, science driven people dismiss the agenda due to its association with violence.
So if your goal is to end animal testing you are being complete fucking morons. But that is hardly a suprise now is it.
Nousides 2 years ago
You are so dumb it hurts my eyes to read your stupidity displayed on the screen.
I'm not even talking about