Protecting the poorest from Governor Pawlenty

[FrankeeFraud]

Fight poverty- get a job, you freeloading bums! The world doesn't owe you a living, a house, entertainment, or doctor's bills, so if you want them, get off your lazy asses & WORK for them like the rest of us do.

[refusetoassimilate]

cont. All to keep the insurance company ceo's living the lives they've grown accustomed to by PROFITING FROM OUR DEATH! While you think about that - think about this: even if America were the healthiest nation on earth, insurance companies would still find ways to deny your coverage. "Oh wait you grew up in a house where both parents smoked?" "Even though you've never smoked a cigarette a day in your life and you now have lung cancer we're not covering your lung transplant - sorry!"

[refusetoassimilate]

I'm so sick of telling everyone the problem with health insurance in this country but I'll do it one last time. Health insurance companies should be non-profit! In fact any insurance you pay for should be non-profit. Isn't that in fact the opposit of what republichairs want to do to "lower" your costs? They want to give you subsidies of YOUR OWN MONEY via taxes you pay, so you can afford your overpriced health insurance. cont...

[asleeperj]

What is the incentive for a company if it is non profit? Walmart makes more money than the big Health care companies combined.

The average profit margin is 3.3%.  Medicare is the largest insurance denier in the US, and its fraudulent waists exceed health care companies profits. Just try to rationalize a little bit.

[refusetoassimilate]

I'll only answer your question. When a health insurance company is "for-profit," you get the dilemma we're dealing with now - denials for pre-existing conditions or whatever they decide to deny you for, insurance premiums that grow 2 times faster than health care costs and 3 times faster than wages, being under covered so your out-of-pocket expenses force you into bankruptcy. NO insurance should be for-profit, that includes your vehicles. Thanks President Nixon for our current health care crisis

[refusetoassimilate]

You're really comparing Walmart to health insurance companies?? If you really want to converse with me let's talk apples to apples friend. Walmart doesn't currently provide health insurance to my knowledge. As much money as they make it doesn't seem to be enough according to you so maybe they should! Anyone can see the business to be in is health insurance - your profits are limited to nothing but care approval!!

[JayBr61]

jfp1399 -

What other sources are you referring to?

And since these people have a "right" to food, what obligation do you see for them?

[sniper6081]

These people don't realize they are increasing their dependence on the government. By cutting back the governor can lower taxes and get government out of helathcare. Then the people will have more money and inflation caused by the state will decrease resulting in more affordable healthcare not just for the poor, but for everyone.

[academiccuriosity]

I'm sure I'll get downvoted,but...

First, the entire premise of this video is wrong - the governor is not the one hurting these people, disease is.

But, the entire issue comes down to this: is healthcare a human right or a human service? They decry anyone so evil as to take away someone's right to healthcare - with the unstated premise that *I owe* it to them. What about my right to buy a house with the money I earned?

"From each according to his abilities, to each according to his need..."

[1samothrace77]

the discussion about the right to healthcare is important but does the government have a responsibility to care of it's ppl

[1978RDC21]

no, it has a responsibility to keep it's people free.

[Jonasinc1]

@1978RDC21 I agree. Did you hear about Jason Lewis' new book? I'm going to the signing today.

[ruediix]

The idea that people will not be able to buy alternative plans or supplement plans is a fabrication by the insurance industry to fool people like you.

They do not want to be forced to accept people with pre-existing conditions, or be forced to do anything else fair that other industries have to.

[academiccuriosity]

Well, first off you should know I'm a capitalist, so you probably already think I'm evil.

I don't CARE if I can get outside health insurance, I don't want to pay for someone else's government plan. If an insurance company can't make money off someone, neither can the government. Even Obama admits it will government spending, not a revenue generator. That money comes from me.

And, no, you can't force a company to insure someone. You seriously think that's the moral stance? Wow.

[ruediix]

First the insurance company BROKE IT'S CONTRACT. That is not only unethical, but it is a CRIME,

Additionally, all medical companies excluding insurance companies and drug companies for unknown reasons, probably having to do with the millions they spend on lobbying, have to be run by board certified doctors under a medical oath. This means that profit is not he number one priority, but simply a means to make a living and gain the needed resources to heal the sick and wounded.

[academiccuriosity]

The possessive form of 'it' doesn't have an apostrophe. 'Amount' has one 'm'.

In five months you can let me know if you've read any other websites. If you have real evidence of judicial bribery/fraud, you should take it to the police. If not, please tell me more.

Cheers! Happy New Year!

[ruediix]

The medical insurance companies were originally run by doctors and hospitals with them as "health coop" companies instead, that basically lumped risk and had all patients or their employers pay a flat ammount for insurance.

The insurance industries found it a "conflict of interest" for someone bound by ethics to run it, and thus be undercutting them by making it affordable and offering quality service.

Thus they made fraudulent lawsuits and paid off the judges in a typical fashion.

[quitearow]

I have a question.

Are people who disagreed/hated former Gov. Jesse Ventura now wishing he was the current Governor of the State of Minnesota?

[1978RDC21]

no, but i didn't hate him.

[ruediix]

Well Progressives have always had mixed feelings about the guy.

Ventura isn't a Progressive, but is far from it. However, he's not in lobbyists  pockets and he's not completely without ethics. He just has a different way of looking at things, and doing things than we do.

Frankly I can speak in agreement with most Progressives when I say, it's better him than someone corrupt.

[imbubba56]

Blue state liberal bitching...pitiful. You want a nanny state...that's how you got in this jam. Tax and spend does not work! Look at Texas. They do it right.

[ruediix]

Texas, let's see they have out of control racism. Highest murder rate in the nation on a state by state basis by population.

Highest hate crime rate, even exceeding states stereotyped as racist.

Highest rate of corporate fraud (cough, enron). Arms smuggling, drug smuggling, pollution issues, suspected source of mad cow disease.

Do I need to continue?

I don't want overegulation, I want FAIR regulation. Or is that too much for your tiny hick brain to wrap it's head around.

[imbubba56]

You pitiful little libtestcle parasite on the productive...you can't make it on your own.

Wipe that shit off your chin fudge packer. Come on down to Texas and you'll get bitch slapped.

[hieronomy]

@imbubba56 ruediix theres a lot of truth in what you say these motherfuckers are the lucky predator Parasites , gay baiting badass texans

fuck you so called bubba I'm here why dont you bitch slap me motherfucker

[imbubba56]

Work on your grammar and punctuation loser so I don't have to get out my secret decoder ring to understand your point.

Pitiful.

[hieronomy]

Your decoder ring is up your fucking ass Texas shithead . You give texans a bad name .

[imbubba56]

Now you've done it! You hurt my feelings...whaaaaaa.

Now eat shit and bark at the moon you pitiful publicly educated loser.

[hieronomy]

Tulane is hardly public CUNT

[imbubba56]

You should have paid attention in school.

[hieronomy]

I laugh at you

[imbubba56]

I fart in your general direction.

[fortun100]

ok so this video starts off with a faggy looking guy with a topknot (rofl) and then it goes into a fat bitch with a big mole on her nose? Are communists all this ugly wtf lol

When the economy is bad you spend less... same with a government unless they want to dump billions in debt on the children. Liberals want to spend away the future for our children.

[ruediix]

When the economy is bad look for the problem and fix it.

Corrupt companies are the problem. Put a watch dog on them, if they violate the rules, sue their asses off, if they continue shut them down.

[roch202020]

Great video, good job people!

[Recepression]

Gov. Tim Pawlenty is cutting $300 million in aid to Minnesota cities, counties and townships as he moves to close a $2.7 billion state budget shortfall.

State health and welfare programs take the next biggest cut.

Pawlenty is using his power to "unallot'' spending after he and

Democrats controlling the Legislature couldn't agree on a budget

deal

[1978RDC21]

cut all the LGA, it's a shell-game scam. if a city can't support itself on it's tax-base it's doing something wrong.

[ruediix]

Yes, it needs to stop cutting taxes for the rich.

Oh wait, republicans can't even mention the word doing that?

Now who's causing problems with balancing the budget?

[ruediix]

Yes, he's cutting health and wellfare instead of corporate sweetheart deals for things that DON"T benefit the public.

Or are you forgetting this.

Also, you may want to note the only thing the governor can do here is order the state attorney general to investigate, and encourage Congress to make sure various reform bills don't accommodate this (mis)behavior on the part of insurance companies.

So if it's so simple to do these things, why doesn't he? One word: Lobbyists.

[Martian74]

America can easily afford to pay for universal health care but at the moment there are too many inefficiencies in the system to be able to do it. Have a look at some countries that have universal health care, Canada, Germany, France & Switzerland all pay much less per person and everyone is covered. Do these countries have problems? Yes, but America can learn much from them and try to make its system better. Many bankruptcies happen in America due to unaffordable health-care.

[ruediix]

Yes, perfect financial incentive. Unfortunately there is big money to be made on ripping people off with shoddy health insurance coverage.

When two industries are violating each other's rights, not to mention the rights of their customers, only one group can make the decision on what should be done, and that is the government.

This is just one reason why the argument that the government must leave things the way they are is both ridiculous and unethical.

[lorax2013]

Here's a crazy idea, if you want healthcare, buy insurance. If you can't afford insurance, why do you think others can, in effect, afford to pay it for you? This kind of theft always ends badly.

[ruediix]

One of the issues is that insurance companies charge more for different people. For instance, if you are twenty and healthy you get charged almost nothing, if you have a severe disability, though they charge you a huge amount. If you get a condition they will increase your premiums to the point you can't afford them.

The problem with this, is the whole point of health insurance is to lump the risk, but the insurance companies are refusing to do this.

[academiccuriosity]

You misunderstand how a capitalist system works. If a company cannot make money off someone, they have no reason to go into business. That's not immoral. The insurance company did nothing - how is that wrong?

I sell you bread, you make pizzas and sell them to customers. I win because I get paid, you win because you get paid, the customers win because they get pizza. It's up to them to figure out a way to pay you. Your pizza place would go under if you had to feed all the homeless as well.

[jfp1399]

Your pizza place would go under if you had to feed all the homeless as well.

Yes, but just because the homeless can't afford pizza, doesn't mean the homeless do not deserve food.

[academiccuriosity]

...yes it does.

What do you think "deserve" means? If you work at $5.50 an hour for 3 hours, you DESERVE $16.50. If you are unwilling to work, you don't deserve anything. That's not MY rule, that's the law of the universe. Try it and see if nature does not agree with me.

[jfp1399]

...yes it does.

So if people can't afford the pizza you're selling, they don't deserve to eat any food at all? That's kind of insane. And deserve means to merit, or be worthy of. People merit and are worthy of food by virtue of their being human beings, not by virtue of their ability or willingness to obtain and spend currency.

[academiccuriosity]

No, if someone can't give me something I am willing to trade for the pizza, he doesn't deserve the pizza. He doesn't "deserve" it - meaning, he has no right to steal from me, EVEN IF he needs it to live.

Your argument presupposes that there is a limitless supply of all things humans need, and that supply was not produced by anyone, and therefore no one owns it. The moment you realize that *I* made the pizza and it is mine, you cannot claim to "deserve" it unless I am willing to trade for it.

[jfp1399]

No, if someone can't give me something I am willing to trade for the pizza, he doesn't deserve the pizza.

Right. But the people who can't afford your pizza shouldn't be disallowed food from other sources.

Your argument presupposes that there is a limitless supply of all things humans need

No, my argument presupposes that humans need food, thus they deserve food. And just because you don't feel like giving it away, doesn't make that less true.

[MrBubbaboy]

Give me a break. Republicans badmouth social programs until they need them themselves. I've known too many hard core Republicans on permanent disability and I don't know any who refuse their social security check. Besides, where the hell do you think entitlement money goes? Do you think the poor are saving the money? When the Repubs give millions to the rich, where does that money go--into an offshore account, not into the economy. And what does that do to the economy?

[pholland]

"When the Repubs give millions to the rich, where does that money go--into an offshore account, not into the economy."

There are so many flaws in the above statement that one could teach an entire semester-long economics course explaining them.

[n2motocross]

QUIT SUCKING OFF THE DAMN GOVERNMENT TIT!!!

THATS ALL THESE SOCIALISTS WANT!!

HEALTH CARE.... HEALTH CARE...... HEALTH CARE!!!

FACE IT!!

People do NOT want freedom from an oppressive government....

THEY WANT A GOVERNMENT RUN NANNY STATE!!

[4tiggers]

that's what the democrats have done to these country. they have made a system of self perpetuating dependency. the main difference is democrats want the government to provide for them, republicans want to provide for themselves.

the government needs to stay out of the private sector.

[n2motocross]

Absolutely! great comment.

[IntellectualRebel01]

"The Government needs to stay out of the private sector."

Because if Wal-mart were a country it's GNI would make it the 20th most wealthy in the world. Republicans don't want to provide for themselves; they want to maintain the status quo of the rich by giving tax breaks to those least deserving, subsidizing national farming, crippling the small foreign farmer. They allow corporations to rule other countries not by law but through income. Republicans are the worst form of government evil.

[lorax2013]

Getting caught up in the Rep/Dem conflict is a little outdated. If you've been paying attention, it's pretty clear that the leadership of both parties was bought off a long time ago. If anything ever changes IMO it will be through a ticket like Paul/Kucinich - but I'm not holding my breath. Just rely on yourself and realize the govt will probably not make things better, but you can certainly make things better for yourself.

[n2motocross]

WHINE!!! WHINE! WHINE!!

[jkfromcincty]

Mr. Pawlenty: Your political career is cooked.

[bassettz65]

JayZee: My sister-in-law is Salvadorean (legal). I have Friends in Mexico from when I studied in rural Mexico 22 years ago. But, from my perspective, many business owners are left with three choices: Hire illegals (to compete), cheat on your taxes, or struggle to survive. The govt. makes cheaters out of people who would otherwise have chosen to be honest.

[bassettz65]

When people in my trade are hurting, send the illegals packing. When schools are failing, send the illegals back. When healthcare is bankrupt, send the illegals back. When Obama is going break the bank even more than irresponsible Republicans, send the illegals back.

[JayZee992]

when the illegals are packing send the illegals packing is that your answer for every thing.

[Anothercoilgun]

You would not survive a day without your beloved illegals.

[garytelecastor]

A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

[kade0868]

I don't feel sorry for the people "that fall through the cracks" as these are people that are not willing to help themselves at all. I have spent most of the day calling hospitals all over Minnesota every one I called said they had programs for people that couldn't pay for their care and even extended care and it wouldn't be effected by cuts in Medicaid. This call to arms ends up being total BS.

[rblum100]

Yea, right. What hospitals did you call, who did you talk with and did you actually check it out to see if it was true? My experience is that they will do EVERYTHING within their power to transfer out patients who are unable to pay and keep patients who can pay.

[kade0868]

I called over 30 Catholic Hospitals all of them had programs for the poor that couldn't pay. I also called 15 County Hospitals same things they had programs that would cover the poor. I knew the Catholic hospitals would have it... this is also a common practice with teaching Hospitals - at teaching Hospitals even if you are insured you can get surgeries and other things cheaper if you are willing to let new residents be your primary Doctor.

[titus2mommy]

"Your experience"...? Why don't you come and sit in the chair of a parent whose child has heart disease, cancer or whatever. We sit in the hospitals for days and years on end. We SEE that everyone is accepted and given the same high level of care regardless of ability to pay.  We have met people from all over the world who come here because their government healthcare system deemed that their chemo or heart echo was not "cost effective".

[rblum100]

Well, Obviously we have different takes. You haven't seen the political fights over who gets designated as a trauma center so as to be able to be able to bill other providers and hmo's due to trauma intakes.  You have not seen patients transferred off ICU's during the very last minutes of their lives so that the hospital's iCU mortality statistics won't draw the attention of regulators. That is my experience. Hospitals tend to be large businesses that are very focused on revenue streams.

[kade0868]

These people are idiots... there are federal laws that state that every hospital has to take anyone that walks in for care.... especially if they are County hospitals. No one is taking away health care for the poor... shows you what happens when idiots talk to morons and spread lies.

[ruediix]

Unfortunately that law is neither enforced, nor does it require that the hospital admit the person for more than a limited period of time. Additionally the hospital fits the bill causing higher health care costs for everyone if they cannot receive money from state government Medicaid programs.

Clearly cutting Medicaid and other health programs to save on taxes only fits the bill elsewhere in the public system, and causes the poor to have to wait in lines in emergency rooms clogging the system.

[kade0868]

That law is enforced everywhere in the United States that is why it is a Federal Law if a hospital doesn't honor the Federal Law they might as well close their doors for good. Medicaid is a way to pay the hospital but that is beside the fact. There are programs that also take care of the poor - every Catholic hospital I have ever worked for has programs. People have to take the initiative to call around and find out what is available. If you are talking about long lines and waits...

[ruediix]

Catholic hospitals have an unusually good track record on providing very good service, and following the strongest ethics. I would never question them.

Unfortunately, not all hospitals are as good, though.

[kade0868]

You don't have anything on Los Angeles or Chicago trust me. As for this national health plan they are talking about I don't know if you have ever been in a country that has nationalized health care - long lines in a emergency room won't be the half of it. They start deciding for you if you deserve certain procedures & medicines & if you are no longer cost effective you get cut off. The wait time to see any doctor can be weeks to months.

[kade0868]

If the Government didn't create Medicaid which is so mismanaged the prices would be lower. Hospitals have found that you can charge almost anything under the guise of Medicaid and thus increasing the prices on everything. If they really want to get health care costs down they can start an audit program on hospital charges. No one should have to pay $50 for two Tylenol but that is the average cost they charge at a hospital.

[kade0868]

When they audit the Hospitals they should also audit the suppliers. Walking into a hospital emergency room Los Angeles' Cedar Sinai will cost you $1500 and Cook County in Chicago $1200 that is for walking in there are more charges once you see a doctor . This is how these hospitals get paid back for the dead beats that don't pay their bills.

[ruediix]

Yes, exactly what I was saying, although we don't agree on solutions.

My idea is that they actually properly audit everything, and run an effective government system. Japan has an excellent government run health care system, as does Germany, Norway, Sweden and Finland.

As a note, you never hear about these countries in right wing arguments against government health care, as what would be the point in showing an effective system.

[titus2mommy]

Sweden? Sure they can decide without the family or the patient when to terminate your healthcare (Literally...)

[delyshBB]

If you never used those healthcare systems, shut up. Thanks. By the way, the government in those countries can tell you that they won't pay for your treatment, if they don't deem it cost-effective. Of course, your tax money was great when you were healthy. lol

[delyshBB]

oh and in germany you wait in lines to get healthcare too. i wouldn't have any problem with government run healthcare as long as you can opt out of it and stop paying taxes for something you don't want.

[ruediix]

Oh, I guess you've never been to an Emergency room in the US.

You have to wait as much as 4 hours to be seen in some emergency rooms.

There have been people who have literally died from their conditions while waiting in US hospital waiting rooms.

[fromtheright]

So if we make pot legal for medical reasons will we have to pay more taxes so you damn liberals can have more pot?

[TalkerOne]

The governor wants to kill the poor you say..... gimme a break. Videos like this attempt to take partisan attacks and nonsense and make it sound like those who are engaging in it sound "reasonable"... when they are anything but.

[Asparagusville]

Law schools teach bench law {the edicts

of "judges"}, not the law as prescribed in

the United States Constitution.

[jimhall2002]

Like these scoff-jobs who come back from Irag and Afghanistan with no arms or legs! Buy your own wheel-chair and rehab ya lazy brave cunt! NOT MY RESPONSIBILITY!

[siegristrm]

You are joking about this one right?

[aeuiono]

Nope. Only conservatives think those blood-sucking baby killers should have their little boo-boos paid for.

We already paid for them to go kill a bunch of brown babies like they always wanted to.

Fuck those fucking rethuglikkkan soldiers.

[siegristrm]

are you on crack or fucking with me? Those people that are paid to do w/e the govt tells them to do regardless, especially when babies are blowing them up, make you free. If they get injured, they deserve more than what WE as a country give them.

[aeuiono]

Yes, I do occasionally smoke crack and I would like to fuck you, because I'm liberal.

Drugs are good, Christianity is bad! Gay is good! Straight is stupid and racist! Michelle Obama is finally proud.

The only person who deserves anything is that beautiful and elegant Barack Hussein Obama (I say his middle name to make rethuglikkkans cry). He deserves all of the white people's money.

[RyuDarragh]

We each have a stake in our governments. We each can control them. The richest of the rich still, to this day, are afraid of the consumer, regardless of the economic or political system our respective countries employ to move wealth from the many to the few. Everyone has the power to vote, purchase (or not) and make a stink about all these issues. If enough people really wanted real solutions and not just "what's in it for me?", things would change for the better. What are *YOU* going to do?

[8421128]

This is to bad!

[F4O4U4R4S]

Dont worry about the little people!

Just put your blindfolds on and wave your american flags and praise the messiah Barrack Obama!

Savior of the planet!

Bless the NWO!

[whovian1971]

"Just put your blindfolds on and wave your american flags and praise the messiah Barrack Obama!

"

Did alex jones tell you to say that?

[Dewdaahman]

Bring our jobs back and get rid of the New World Order scheme and we can again afford and will demand above par medical care and education.. DEMAND a change away from globalization..

[peyoteugly]

FUCK YOU IN THE FACE, PAWLENTY.

fuck you.

fuck your family and friends.

fuck the rich.

[Visfen]

How can one be so dumb as to think that what is the nice thing is also the smart thing. Economics is about sacrifices.

[hellshade2]

this is pretty low even for a politician, people will probanly die due to this and the govenor is only worried about politics.

more proof politicians don't give a shit about the people......

[phnixlady]

We have GREED,SLOTH,LIES, at the base of every office, school, politician, social service. Strength is imperitive to repair this insanity. IMHO

[spartan2600]

ya, let all the "weak" die! only the strong deserve to survive!

[TruthTaste]

Make the phone call, it is your liberal guilt penance of the day. Voting for obama was supposed to be the last penance for liberal guilt... yet the keep saying of well if you just did this or if you just did that... in the end no penance will suffice the liberal guilt dispensors.

[spartan2600]

its about caring for other people. its about looking beyond your own home. its about being concerned if the widow across the street has enough food to eat, or if the single mother can get her children the healthcare they need. its about caring, and its sad to see that so many only care for their selves, or their own family.

it is the new spirit of the age: gain wealth, forgetting all but self.

[JeremiahHughes]

burn him at the stake

[achampag]

hehe i am so calling

[nowellian]

The richest country in the world can not provide basic human services to its under paid and over worked working class.

You must be kidding.

We spend untold billions on war after war. We provide billions in tax breaks and tax credits to the wealthiest in our country.

France and most western democracies provide health care, housing, and education to the working class.

Why can't we?

Complain about the escalation of the War in Afghanistan, not sick people going to the doctor.

[MooseOfReason]

nowellian, We're not rich. We create wealth with a printing press in the basement, called the Federal Reserve.

[Visfen]

The government is a burden on the private sector. If you want more jobs, get the government out of it.

[mtlsoul]

I really hope you are right. Although, historically, anything done on pure ideology leads to a dystopia. I think we may have a chance to find out.

[Visfen]

Well, if science is an ideology...

There are certain rules in economics, just like there are rules in nature. I rather build on that, than fight it.

Socialism doesn't work, whatever anyone will tell you. I live in Sweden, have for all my life, you want wide spread poverty - socialism is the way to go.

People on unemployment actually make more money than I do at my part time job, while I have to get loans, to finance my education.

[mtlsoul]

That is pretty f'ed up. I don't know what the answer is, I do know that in america the system is broken.....and it is getting worse. I am not a socialist...I do not really believe in ideologies, I like the science thing. I think we should look at the models that work the best and build on those, I am a social liberatarian however, and am a strong supporter of social justice, as I define it, as I am not sure how others define it.

[Visfen]

Well, then you should look at yourself, when the US did work. What did you different? Well you abandoned the gold standard, you created a private/government enterprise to run the money supply, you interfered in the market so politicians could re-elected, you loaned money to the point where you got broke and you went on to buy consumer goods with the money.

If we want to see what works today, just look at China, they are following what the US did during the 19th century and after WWII.

[mtlsoul]

I just feel like this explanation is a little simplistic, and america post WW2 had a systemm of accountability for large corporations that doesn't exist today. I agree with a lot of what Dr. Paul says, and I respect him for what I know of his record. Although if we are still mired in Iraq come 2012, Dr. Paul may get his day in court....so to speak.

[Visfen]

accountability is different than regulation.

[spartan2600]

exactly, keynesian economics is what works. using public funds to hire workers, large public works, that is what works. the only thing is you added in the "19th century" in there, which it shouldn't.

and wait, wtf are you talking about the gold standard? are you another so-called libertarian? get over it, the gold standard isn't our savior. look around the world, just because a country left the gold standard doesn't mean it went to shit.

[Visfen]

No Keynesian economics doesn't work. Look at the great depression.

And yes, the gold standard is important, every paper currency in the world eventually went to zero.,

[spartan2600]

actually, when Hoover left the economy to pull itself up, things got worse, or at least that's the general consensus among historians and economists here in the US. there are always those who disagree, but they tend to be ideologues and view things through a highly selective prism. When FDR instituted the New Deal, it didn't end the great depression, but it got cash in the pockets of average people, and stopped the loss of jobs. when WWII came round, that got us out, though that was > new deal.

[Visfen]

Yes, it always gets darker before the dawn. The correction hurts. But postponing it is even more destructive.

Hoover however certainly did not employ free market principles, he was that era's equivalent of today's bush.

The New deal didn't bring the US out of the depression. It was first after the war, when spending was cut and the rest of the world was bombed to piece that the US got out of the great depression.

You're the moron that belongs to a school of thought that thinks war is good.

[spartan2600]

although you are bitter about people getting unemployment, you must look at the things democratic socialism has brought you in Sweden. I'm in the US, and we have it far worse here, despite your claim that a more neo-liberal society would be better off. we live shorter, there is drastic economic inequality, more crime, etc. Obviously Sweden isn't perfect, but you are taking for granted a lot in what you say.

and NO, economics is a NOT science in any real sense of the word.

[Visfen]

It has brought the poorest middle class in the west, when we used to be the richest.

Liberalism is always better than statism. The state doesn't solve anything.

Well, it is a science to some degree, and to some degree we can definitely see that Keynesianism doesn't work. Didn't work in the 30s. Won't work now.

[jesuschrustpizza]

How about a reduction in salary for Government officials instead?

[milkgodnl]

When you run a government like a "business", and the economy goes bad, you "layoff" (terminate services) to those who need them the most .. Such a government was promoted by Ayn Rand, Grover Norquist and his Club or Growth, and Governor Pawlenty. When Pawlenty uses terms like "smaller government" or "lower taxes" he means fewer services to us (even though we pay our fair share of taxes) and lower taxes to their ilk.

[mtlsoul]

Just wait, if Ron Paul and his supporters get into power, imagine what it would be like if we privatized the interstates and highways, all utilities, all aspects of healthcare, social security, and education. I don't have a problem with Mr. Paul, in fact I commend the fact that he has told the truth, I just disagree with his ideology.

[Kapan60]

I'd like to point out that all of those things you just stated up above aren't that great being run by the goverment ethier.

Medicare and social security will be bankrupt soon, education is ranked below many nations, and our bridges are falling apart.

[Visfen]

His ideology is the truth. The government can't magically create wealth and services out of thin air and bring by utopia. Free markets work, just look at the current financial crisis that was created by all the government guarantees and intervention.

[RyuDarragh]

Free Markets will work no better than Capitalism, Socialism or any other system you can create. One simple reason. It *WON'T* be left alone. There is no panacea. No system that will cure all the ills.

PICK ONE AND KEEP WORKING ON IT. EVOLVE IT INTO A WORKING SYSTEM.

Our current system could be made to work. If *YOU* want it to. Go, VOTE! Stop doing business with the finacial parasites. TAKE CHARGE OF YOUR WALLET.

Unlike wishful thinking or a magical system, *YOU* have the power.

[Visfen]

Democracy doesn't solve anything.

[maskedphrogg]

Hunh?

First you say Markets don't work, then you loudly promote the mechanisms that Markets utilize.

Seems to me you are your own worst enemy.

Markets do work, markets work perfectly. For the very reasons you specify and demand of others to consider.

[RyuDarragh]

You fail to understand or have not critically examined the claims of the "Free Market" / "Libertarian" and other similar movements. Especially the ones citing Ayn Rand as their philosophical linch pin. What I described is *NOT* how markets work, or people would not be abandoning "Capitalism" and promoting all these other utopian visions. The problem is status quo and even the best idealized system proponents want that. I say you can't have status quo. You will always get status conned.

[maskedphrogg]

Excuse me?

I'm wrong because I'm right?

Stop manipulation of markets and you will have your free market. Try getting back to definitions and basic assumptions. I will not be swayed by emotional arguments nor by false dichotomy. The problem is and has always been manipulation of markets by 3rd parties. Capitalism is no "utopian fantasy" it is a method of all concerned parties reaching mutually beneficial outcomes.

Egads! Would you punish innovators for being rewarded for their innovations?

Shame!

[ConservativeNow]

Great comment!

The people in this video are gathering to keep their free hand-outs. You know....maybe if millions of illegal aliens were NOT getting free health care, true U.S. citizens could afford better health care. Just a thought.....

[whovian1971]

"Great comment!

The people in this video are gathering to keep their free hand-outs"

Those lazy schizophrenics and homeless people! They should get jobs!

[whovian1971]

"The people in this video are gathering to keep their free hand-outs. "

Minnesota care isn't free. And many people on Minnesota care work. So why don't morons like you find out the facts before posting crap on the internet?

[RyuDarragh]

You're arguing for the sake of arguing. What I advocated was what we can do, regardless of market system. To evolve any system will converge on a usable system. That is *NOT* what the "believers" in any given system want and those in power have tried to prevent, every time. How you phrased your original reply to me came across as saying the same thing the "believers" do, that some mysterious *market* forces would correct things. Never seen them. If they're that easily thwarted, they're useless.

[maskedphrogg]

What I thought you were advocating did indeed describe market forces. Markets do not depend on belief in whether they work or not. Markets and the forces that drive them can be described quantitatively. They are not mysterious unless you do not understand the qualities of those who partake in the transactions that markets facilitate.

Neither are they "easily thwarted." It is the heavy and well armed hand of governments that thwart the good that is a free market.

[maskedphrogg]

A free market can easily be described.

It is environment, it need not necessarily be a physical place like the grocery on the corner of a street, where two or more parties offer things or services for trade. A successful trade (transaction as it is known to some) takes place when two parties agree to exchange what each has offered.

Granted, some systems of trade can become quite complicated. But as long as no one is forcing any party to partake it will still be free.

[RyuDarragh]

Ah, but there is a sucker born every minute and human greed and gullability can be used by very clever men to game any system there is or can ever be. Systems that take this into account tend to be more robust than those that do not, but still get "gamed" in the end. This can't be wished away, legalized away or forced away. Now, a system that takes *advantage* of this fact to set feedback loops and controls will be really robust.. and is not something I have seen implemented by anyone.

[maskedphrogg]

What the hell are you talking about?

Instead of empowering people to defend and depend on themselves you would force them to do what you or some all powerful government deems is best for them.

You are a totalitarian bigot. I see from the comments in your own channel that you simply do not trust or like people in general. Good luck making trades with others where both sides see benefit. Your offer to do my bidding is declined.

[RyuDarragh]

Then you will be duped by the greedy and conned by the powerful and never even know it. Oh, and I trust people to be exactly who they are and do exactly what they have done in the past. I saw the dot-com bubble long before it burst and saw Regans "trickle down" piss all over everyone, too. I simply do not trust easily.. and tend to be wary in inverse proportion to enthusiasm. Now, how my comments make me a "totalitarian bigot" baffles me and makes you seem more a reactionary than anything else.

[maskedphrogg]

More red herring and false dichotomy.

No thanx, I just ate. Keep your empty calories.

Or better yet, sell your ideas to Monsanto. They seem to be creating and cornering the Market in Unhealthy Non-nutritious food.

And after they infect you with their unholy and inhuman variety they sue you for being in possession of it.

[RyuDarragh]

Put up or shut up, pal. If you're the "authority" here, come up with suggestions. Thos who complain while others proferr their opinions are the sawdust of honest intellectual discourse. Blowing in the air and choking the mouths of those who would offer their ideas.

[maskedphrogg]

How quickly you forget the PM you sent me.

You're the one that needs to put a clamp on the hot air and come up with some rational explanations.

You claim authority but give nothing as corroboration beyond circular arguments.

Good luck making trades when you offer so little.

Or do you, as you seemed to imply in your PM, do as those possibly distant relatives and rely on force and or fraud to make profit?

[RyuDarragh]

That's the difficulty, maskedphrogg. You make snap judgements and form attitudes in the anonymity of the internet that would win you no friends in the real world. Of course, you'll say you don't care or that it doesn't have anything to do with "making trades", but let me ask you: Do you believe according everyone you meet the benefit of a doubt, a little respect and letting their actions in any given arena speak for themselves? I do, and have friends I'd never do business with and vice/versa.

[spartan2600]

that's nonsense. the period of the greatest economic boom in the country was during World War 2, when the government INTERVENED to create a semi-control economy, instituted enormous public works projects and industrialized the nation to produce weapons, tanks etc. then after WWII, the US stayed militarized, and stayed on Keynesian policies. wages and the quality of living went up for all, not JUST the rich. then, in the 70's Nixon started neo-liberal reforms, and its been downhill since.

[Visfen]

Wow, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. You think WWII was good for the US economy?

You did't get out of the great depression until after the war when you cut spending and cut taxes, when all the rest of the world was bombed to pieces.

If spending borrowed money on wars was good for the economy, then the past 7 year should have been great.

Logic completely escapes you. You think Nixon was a neo-liberal? Fucking moron. He left the gold standard idiot.

[spartan2600]

nonsense. there are two schools of thought among economists; 1: the New Deal got us out of the Great Depression 2: WWII got us out of the Great Depression. I've never heard anybody with any training in economics claim that cutting spending and taxes got us out of the Depression, but there you are also wrong. the 50's and 60's were the period of the highest taxes and spending. we didn't stop spending what we did on the military after WWII, and we only added more social programs... until the 70's.

[Visfen]

If you don't know about any other school of economics than Keynesianism I very much hope that you are not actually studying it, because if you are, you are failing.

No, after WWII, when you cut spending and taxes dramatically. That is when you got out of it, then later on you did add on to it with Vietnam war and the great society, that accumulated in the 70s.

War is not good for the economy. What do spending on war do? It doesn't provide a service or an increase in the standard of living...

[spartan2600]

The last 7 years haven't been great because the way we pay for war has drastically changed. During WWII, and thereafter the military was run directly through the US government. Now, we outsource almost everything to corporations like KBR, Haliburton, et al. That reduces the quality of service, and the number of people employed. also, technology has virtually eliminated the need for a massive industrial base to make war. therefore, all the money goes straight to CEO's and investors.

[Visfen]

The last seven years were a disaster, it was a boom. The problems you are feeling now are the accumulation of that boom. The boom is the problem, not the bust, what the economy is feeling now is the cure, it is trying to correct itself, and people in government that know just as little about economics as you do are fighting against that.

Then you say Nixon was a neo-liberal, he left the gold standard, he fueled a war. He increased spending. How is that neo-liberalism. Look it up for God's sake.

[spartan2600]

Nixon WAS a neo-liberal. you may disagree with him about the gold standard, but he began the entire era of neoliberalism marked by deregulation and drastic reductions in social programs. Nixon himself wasn't as neo-liberal as what we like to think of today, but you could say he created the inflection point that put the US where it is now.

also, you are confused about neo-liberals, they are NOT the same as liberal. look up "neo-liberalism" in wikipedia.

[Visfen]

I guess it depends on how you define neo-liberalism, not that I am one, I'm a libertarian.

But if you are to look at the wikipedia entry, you will end up with the Keynesian school of thought. Your school. Your policies. That is what caused the great depression, it caused the 70s and it caused this crisis that will outdo them all.

[FriedDaisy]

The honorable thing to do when the ship is sinking is to place our most vulnerable citizens in the life boats. Instead, Governor Pawlenty is throwing them over like so much ballast for the benefit of his campaign financiers.

If things are so bad that massive budget cuts are necessary, Pawlenty needs to flick the obese corporate tick off the public tit because if it isn't done, now, it'll suck & suck & suck his state dry. Leaving it a shriveled husk that won't sink, but blow away.

[milkgodnl]

FriedDaisy,

To add to your metaphor they throw the most vulnerable overboard to free up lifeboat space for their gold boullion.

[MauiRae]

Just another "Politician" wanting attention and and listening to the people with deep pockets.

Pawlenty should address his state like a man.

Good luck Minnesota.

[upabittoolate]

i think you mean minnesota just got a good fuck

[dfeiler123456]

wow no one watches this

[dfeiler123456]

third?

[dfeiler123456]

still first

[dfeiler123456]

firstsies