"Justification by Grace Alone through Faith Alone" (1 of 4)-White Horse Inn

[sheepfax]

yup

[TulipWife]

I looked on the website, and I can't seem to find a link to this broadcast. They show the title, but no link for the download, I really want to download this. Would you know how I can do this?

[RUSavedByGraceAlone]

@TulipWife Greetings in Christ! Unfortunately, White Horse Inn has not been able to store all of the their past broadcasts. Not sure if they still have copies on CD? I suggest either attaching a hand recorder to the headphone jack of computer and record audio of each Youtube video and then copy all to CD or purchase a software online that can automatically record Youtube audio or videos like EZ Hi-Q Recorder or Tunebite. Hope that helps a little! God bless!

[derek0325]

Hebrews 10:26

If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,

[wbarquez]

The Bible does not teach justification by faith alone, but justification by faith (Romans 5:1), and by grace (Titus 3:7), and by works (James 2:24). This is the complete Biblical formula on justification.

[michalchik]

Since you guys like Romans so much, Romans 2:5-6

King James Bible

"But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;King James Bible Who will render to every man according to his deeds:"

Is it not he height of impertinence to claim that you know in your heart that god has saved you though in your deeds you do not do your utmost to follow his commands? Please read all of Jesus' words to know.

[michalchik]

James 2:24 (King James Version)

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

[michalchik]

Once again Christians fall into this half-assed Calvinism that elevates Pauls words above those of Jesus. Read Matthew or the other synoptic Gospels morons. You are not chosen by God you chose to follow God through your actions and faith is the means through which you find the ability to be righteous.

Your nonesense the most deeply corrupt, wicked self-aggrandizing hypocrisy in Christianity today. You make the pharisees look like Saints.

[RUSavedByGraceAlone]

I used to believe the same thing as you until I was convinced by the Bible (God's inspired Word from God-even Paul's letter) that God saves wicked and wretched sinners like all of us by His sovereign grace and mercy. Otherwise we receive God's justice which is eternal damnation. The Pharisee trusts in their own self-works righteousness to enter into heaven, but Christians (especially Calvinists) trusts only in the Christ's perfect righteousness and finished work on the cross. Man vs God-center.

[michalchik]

@RUSavedByGraceAlone No the Pharisee trusted their own piety and their favor in God's eyes, Jesus criticized their actions. Read his words in the synoptic gospels! I am sorry you have turned away from Jesus. Lazy Christians favor Paul because he makes it easy, ya don't gotta do a thing, Jesus did it all for ya. This was a Heresy that was rejected by every Christian on the planet for 1500 years until the lunatic founder of the puritans Calvin screwed it up.

[Aaron637]

True faith produces works. How is that lazy?

[michalchik]

@Aaron637 That would be great, but there are legions of Christians out there believing and claiming to be saved that are doing nothing because they think that it is all gonna happen for them. Most "saved" Christians don't even have enough faith to read the Bible. People don't test their faith by looking at their actions. They just say, I am a sinner so of course I am going to fail, but Jesus will forgive me anyway. BS like this video just feeds this stupidity, hypocrisy and laziness.

[Aaron637]

@michalchik

I get your complaint and feel it man. But from my personal experience....in an attempt to stamp out hypocrisy & produce true Christians who do work....i fell into the error of changing the actual gospel of Christ...in my zeal and ignorance and bound myself in fetters. Reducing it to repentance and faith....yet my definition of repentance was basically doing good works. Its biblical but this misunderstanding is the fallacy of the roman Catholics = works + faith = salvation.

[Aaron637]

@michalchik

So only in the past 2 years has God made me see the error of my ways. That salvation is by grace through faith alone....and should be preached as such along side a call to repentance "repent & believe the gospel" - Jesus. Where repentance is a change of heart...a turning to Jesus. Now the error I made led to me living in fear and slavery and being in bondage under the law...all due to the fact that I felt the need to work for salvation with faith for forgiveness.

[Aaron637]

@michalchik

This doctrine is the core of Christianity...and a misunderstanding of it can make people stumble into hell. To seek salvation from works forfeits grace (Galatians) it is a different gospel. As to the goats amongst the sheep....they are inevitable....Jesus said they would come....wolves in sheeps clothing as did Peter. Remember the parable of thee sower. same seed...different responses....only some bore fruit. But that does not mean you go and change the seed.

[Aaron637]

@michalchik

This new understanding I have had has completely changed how I perceive Christianity. To a point I guess I have turned from being primarily an arminian for 5 years....to somewhere between the to schools.....and probably now more of a calvinist. Now seeing salvation, that is the conviction and conversion & subsequent good fruits of a sinner as the work of God....rather than work of self, or man. It is the only way one can live without being crippled with anxiety for others souls.

[michalchik]

@Aaron637 The core is this. Works, Faith and grace are inseparable. If you are missing one you do not have the others. Works do not save you, but you can not follow Jesus without following his words. It is very easy to fool yourself into believing that you have devoted yourself to Jesus, but the path is narrow and hard. Read Mathew 5-7 again.

[RUSavedByGraceAlone]

@michalchik

I believe Aaron637 and I are agreeing with you that works, faith, and grace are inseparable and that works does not save us.

Eph.2:8-10 "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works,*which God prepared in advance for us to do*" Those who are born in the Root (Jesus) always bears the Fruit of the Spirit. =)

[Aaron637]

@RUSavedByGraceAlone

I agree. I think all of us agree. Edifying talk though. :) Peace brothers.

[Aaron637]

"Salvation necessarily produces fruit otherwise one has not experienced saving faith" - bro I did say just what you have said in one of my comments. The point is the ORDER in which they come. The seed first, then the plant, then the fruit.

Fruit accompanies true faith - James 2. But it does not precede it and it is not the basis of salvation (Romans 4)....otherwise it becomes debt not grace. I have no doubt ur a brother...im just saying that this point was a stumbling block for me and many.

[Aaron637]

To mix justification and sanctification leads to legalism. The very reason Galatians was written to address. If it is of works then it is of debt and not of grace The best understanding is that of a marriage. When you love a woman you dont need people demanding you to kiss her or do things for her. If you love God works will come "we love him because He FIRST loved us" .....then as Jesus said "if you love me keep my commandments". But Gods love and grace precedes our love and subsequent works.

[Aaron637]

@michalchik

I believe spurgeon portrays the calvinismI would side with. Not the hyper calvinism thought that God does everything and we do nothing. Rather God does everything and uses us men in the process via sanctification,witnessing, bearing good fruits, prayer and all other godly means. Salvation necessarily produces fruit otherwise one has not experienced saving faith - misunderstanding that kept me from Calvinism, but now i see it as foundational and accept it as biblical and necessary.

[RUSavedByGraceAlone]

@Aaron637 Amen! Well said!

[Aaron637]

@michalchik

I will say now that I am more relaxed, more loving and more fruitful unto god because of an understanding of this. I work not of necessity but of desire to do good. "All of grace" by Spurgeon robably turned my mind to this and took the weight of the conversion of the world off of my back. How can a man sleep when the world is going to hell? you cant function under that weight...and the only way to is to not sincerely love your neighbor or believe in election.

[Aaron637]

@Aaron637

You are saved and then you work. You don't work to become saved. "for by grace you are saved not of works it is a gift of God lest any man boast"

salvation is to be born again of the Spirit which changes your heart desiring to obey (refer to the new covenant defined in the prophets - jer. 36 i think restated in hebrews), to believe in Christs death on the cross and resurrection as the payment for our sins and the means of being justified in Gods sight. Only God can change the heart

[Aaron637]

@Aaron637

Romans 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved

[michalchik]

@Aaron637 Again, you are elevating the your inferenc4es about the words of Paul over the words of Jesus. Paul has a slant that served the early church but that is not the core of God's message. Put Jesus at the center, not peoples interpretations of him. Start from his words and always use them as the standard by which to interpret all other scripture.

[michalchik]

@Aaron637 I still think there a a danger you don't see and that most Christians in America fall into. They go to a revival or a service and they feel an overwhelming surge of emotion and they think that grace has touched them. I think that it needs to be emphasized that these feelings better be driving you to help the poor, heal the sick, love your enemies and turn the other cheek, give away your riches, follow the commandments, etc... or you are just fooling yourself like the pharisees did.

[RUSavedByGraceAlone]

@michalchik Why such harsh words? Where's God's love? Isn't that one of the fruits of the Spirit? First, Jesus's Words and Paul's Words cannot be separated, because they are coming from the same source. The Bible and its entirety is the Word of God and cannot contradict, because God does not lie. Do you believe Paul's word is not inspired by God? Who knocked Saul (now Paul) from his horse and called him to preach the Gospel to the Gentiles? Yes, it is Jesus.

[michalchik]

@RUSavedByGraceAlone You are right, I should be more patient.

[RUSavedByGraceAlone]

@michalchik

Why have I turned away from Jesus when I trust and boast in Jesus' finished work on the cross and His perfect obedience as the only source for my salvation which give God all of the glory! What did Jesus said in Luke 19:10 "For the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost" It is Jesus that seeks His chosen people just as He sought after His disciples. Why? Because there is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God (Rom 3:10-11)

[michalchik]

@RUSavedByGraceAlone I think you are incorrectly juxtaposing these quotes. First Jesus saves WHAT is lost, not WHO is lost. What was lost was the path of righteousness laid out by God for man. The law which became a mere game of ritual rather than a sincere quest for righteousness. I really see modern Christians playing another version of this game with salvation by grace alone. We are the chosen, so we don't have to worry about what we do or why we do it. No point, because we are all sinners.

[RUSavedByGraceAlone]

@michalchik

Let's see what Jesus says about election in John 15:16 "You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit—fruit that will last."

John 6:64-66

"For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray Him. He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him." From this time many of His disciples [not born of God] turned back and no longer followed Him."

[RUSavedByGraceAlone]

What did Jesus said in John 6:35-40

"Jesus declared, "All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. And this is the will of him who sent Me, that *I shall lose none of all that He has given me, but raise them up at the last day.*" If you are God's chosen people then you will not have to fear losing your salvation. This is great news. If Jesus said this, do you believe in this?

[michalchik]

@RUSavedByGraceAlone Which again plays the dangerous game of assuming you know who God has chosen to send to Jesus. You don't know if you are chosen, but you do know you are not if your life is not full of the works that Jesus described. Matthew 5:17-43 for example.

[Aaron637]

Brother...you dont know my works...don't preemptively judge me. And I will turn the cheek even here. I have had another bro on youtube come against me as if I wasn't saved....on the assumption I do nothing....yet you nor he see my life? You judge on the fraction of words we are juding here. Judge with righteous judgment as Jesus said. For most of the part I walk with a clear conscience and give where I am wisely able, serve where I have time, but who am i to justify myself to you?

[michalchik]

@Aaron637 I was not accusing you of being without the works that are the sign of faith. Sorry, I meant "you" in the general sense. We can not know who has God's grace. The dangerous game is assuming that, if we just really are convinced we have faith, then we are saved. "By their fruits you shall know them". Without the works you can know there is no grace nor true faith. That idea must be emphasized to combat self-delusion.

[Aaron637]

I do not willfully premeditated sin. If I do sin it is stumbling in the heat of the moment. or it may be hidden sin of the heart. as I said, only christ is able to judge me. alI dont even trust the judgment of myself...just as Paul said. Im sure I have imperfections i am not aware of...and this is the very problem an emphasis on works produces. anxiety over law..legalizm. Falling from grace looking to personal perfection + faith for forgivness. Christ did more than die for our forgiveness

[michalchik]

@Aaron637 It is not just avoiding sin. I think there is far to much emphasis on fear of mistakes. Righteousness bares fruits of righteous actions. Charity, compassion, love, self-sacrifice, peacemaking. If people lapse into lustful or violent thoughts or deeds, yes, that is a stumble and we need Jesus to redeem us, but we turn against Jesus when do do not help the 50,000 people a year that die in America because of lack of health insurance. Matthew 25:31-46

[Aaron637]

I know I am an adopted son of God because of the Holy Spirit He has given me...that bares witness with my Spirit and produces fruit in my life. That is the witness that Paul and John speak of. As for elevating Paul above christ....I dont. I am a Christian. But you calling me a disciple of Paul is like me calling you a disciple of Matthew. Its a straw man argument. Do you believe the writings of Paul are inspired or not? I believe what Paul preached agrees with all that Christ preached. u?

[Aaron637]

And please forgive me if I am slightly impatient here too. I may have misinterpreted what you meant as a personal attack rather than the church at wide. Sorry mate.

But as I said...to emphasize one side discounts the other. Works and grace together provide the medium.....but grace precedes works. Otherwise sanctification precedes justification = roman catholic.

two great errors: antinomianism (ur fighting)

& legalizm (im fighting) the gospel lies in between = faith that produces works.

[Aaron637]

I am a recovering semi-pelegian/legalist/pharise­e. I am still having my theology reformed. Any emphasis on works triggers alarm bells in me..not that works are bad, love is good..but if you make it the grounds of justification you have just perverted the gospel. As I said I did. "do we sin now so grace may abound....God forbid!" - Paul.

Im not up for an argument as I am not yet grounded enough myself. I just know the danger of heresy....semi-pelegianism via following Charles Finney's theoloy

[michalchik]

@Aaron637 "Pelegian" thanks for a new word.

[Aaron637]

@michalchik

Heh. Pelagian sorry. It is the root controversy of the church in my opinion. Everything stems on your view on it. starting with augustine vs pelagius....then semi- pelagianism leading to....medievial catholicism which was reformed by the luther and co. then Calvin vs Arminus.  All of it is over the same thing. The relationship between works and faith, Justification and sanctification, sovereignty, freewill & personal responsibility....it involves a whole theological framework.

[michalchik]

@Aaron637 My background is biology, so my first though was pelagic which means "free swimming" but that does not really fit, so I looked it up.

[Aaron637]

I thought theoloy was better.

[Aaron637]

"Protestantism's salvation by faith versus Rome's salvation by works-this is not a technically accurate way to state this vital difference, but it points to the truth. The Protestant trusts Christ to save him and the Catholic trusts Christ to help him save himselfIf it is a salvation based on works that come from grace, it is not based on grace but on the Christian's works that come from grace" -John Gerstner 'Justification by Faith Alone'

from: aplacefortruth(dot)org/creeds/­creeds12(dot)htm

[johnthreesixteen316]

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from youselves, it is the gift of God--NOT BY WORKS, so that no one can boast. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus TO DO GOOD WORKS, which God prepared in advance for us to do " (Eph. 2:8,9).

[brianblackberry]

I am told that one needs genuine sorrow ("contrition") and the confession of sins to God, and to turn from them (repentance) and to trust alone in Jesus Christ as one's Savior one's Lord for salvation. Any truth to that?

[RUSavedByGraceAlone]

Brian- Thank you for your great question. Yes, you are correct. All of these are attributed to the amazing grace of God! None of us deserves total forgiveness of all of our sins, but God demonstrates His great love and mercy to us by sending God the Son, Jesus, to earn and merit for us His perfect righteousness and to pay-in-full the debt for our sins by His atoning death on the cross. God actively changed my heart of unbelief to belief and gave me eyes to see. Grace that is truly amazing!

[brianblackberry]

You say they are attributed to the grace of God, so they are not prerequisites for salvation?

[RUSavedByGraceAlone]

Sorry for not responding earlier!Prerequisites for salvation? I'm not saying that we are saved by our creating repentance or faith from our unbelieving hearts, but God grants us repentance and saving faith in Christ as free gifts from God for our salvation. They are God's ordained means or instrument to save sinners, not the cause. God alone deserves credit and glory for our salvation when He changes the disposition of our hearts from unbelief to belief through the saving message of His Gospel

[johnthreesixteen316]

If salvation was through works like the world religions would have you believe, by man's way or ways instead of God's way, then Satan and his fallen angels would be able to qualify. But Christ did all of the work on the cross so accepting His sacrifice is all that is needed. This makes it impossible for Satan to qualify because he would never accept Christ's grace.

[stonerolledaway]

Amen. Only through faith.