GET YOUR CHURCH OUT OF OUR STATE!!!!!!!!!

[LEANEXPERTISE]

Religions will keep pushing themselves into all activities because it is the people who they have been living off of. so, wherever people meet, they will try to keep forcing their presence. Exploitation of Ignorance is their flag. It is sad that religious groups have taken so much advantage of our educative system. Children are overwhelmed by religious promotion in their schools too. Just be atheist and show others the benefits of Freedom. That is all we can do.

[9pt9]

More revising history crap.

[mujaku]

The U.S. Constitution doesn't even mention God. Let's face it, religion is TOO sacred to be taught by the state or in our schools.

[fragglet]

You're doing a David Silverman face in the video thumbnail!

[HonestDiscussioner]

@fragglet What's a David Silverman face?

[fragglet]

@HonestDiscussioner David Silverman, of American Atheists, did an interview with Bill O'Reilly several months back. When O'Reilly came up with a ridiculous argument of "tide goes in, tide goes out", Silverman responded with an incredulous stare. People on the Internet picked up on it, it got made into a cartoon form and has now become a minor meme, as it's used in a generic form as an atheist response to religious insanity.

Google "david silverman face" for the pic and the original video.

[yeshuahfullofit]

Succinct. Good video! 

[nactan]

what's wrong with this guy? the government isn't run solely by non-religious people, far from it!

[Zurround100]

Church and state are a WONDERFUL combination!! just look at some other examples, like medieval europe and countries with sheria law! We could have a utopian society, the proof of that is in what I just listed!

[bigboy45454545]

I love the pedophile glasses Strehle wears. I'm just saying, I'm sure he's not. But ask yourself if they make him look intelligent or insane?

[krstcmjns]

I dislike now-it-alls--they're dangerous and scary!

[sidharth0384]

I Think People never seem to learn from all the very well documented History, that Religions Uprising or Religions Feudalism has only led to Human Sufferings over the rise of the first known religions from about 10000 BC to Current day. If we were to analyse the year 10000BC and compare it with the Scientific Development that we have today, weren't these very same Development not possible back then ? So what what stopped us ? I think it was & it is these very Evils of Religions which stopped us.

[gatorboymike]

Religious-fanatic propagandists and merchants of mendacity like this alleged "professor" would seek to convince us all that America is a Fox News/Sarah Palin/Rush Limbaugh Christian nation, founded exclusively by Fox News/Sarah Palin/Rush Limbaugh Christians, who wrote a Fox News/Sarah Palin/Rush Limbaugh Christian document, which declares this a nation of, for and by Fox News/Sarah Palin/Rush Limbaugh Christians. Then they want to revise history in order to so brainwash future generations. Feh.

[zottejakke3]

Great debunking of this piece of cr*p interview. Thx lotz :)

[colossus999]

I remember watching this interview a while back and being appalled. Thanks for taking the time to explain why it's wrong!

[HonestDiscussioner]

@colossus999 My pleasure. How'd you find this video anyway, I've suddenly gotten a lot of comments, did someone link you to me?

[colossus999]

@HonestDiscussioner QualiaSoup favorited it. I'm subscribed to him, so it showed up on my frontpage. I've seen your videos before and I liked them, so I'm actually surprised I'm not subscribed to you yet. I'll go do that.

[HonestDiscussioner]

@colossus999 Qualia favorited this? I'm honored . . . I have almost all of his videos favorited, at least the most recent once.

[FrostdPoptart]

@HonestDiscussioner This video showed up on my YouTube homepage when QualiaSoup Favorited it. But yeah, I agree with colossus999, this is a great video.

[djalessandromagno]

Absolutely fantastic,.... simple... neat.. revealing!

Kudos

[HonestDiscussioner]

@djalessandromagno Glad you enjoyed it.

[Bikkits]

Heh, ultra-Christian sex =3

[krstcmjns]

@Bikkits Ultra-violence in the house hold brought on my religious discussion... That's what I grew up around a lot :\

[tvain86]

Love it ! Religion should be a personal matter and not a state matter!

[HonestDiscussioner]

@tvain86 I completely agree.

[SubstancePrime]

People who claim that secular morality is somehow impossible or flimsy have literally zero knowledge of philosophy.

[WildwoodClaire1]

Given the demographics of religious belief in America, the idea that the religiously inclined do not have equal representation in the public forum is risible. And, assuming the professor is not irretrievably stupid, his bill and his statements can only be regard as disingenuous.

[aviindub]

love the opening animation :)

[HonestDiscussioner]

@aviindub Thanks! Every time I watch it I feel like watching it a few more times. I think it's that last "meh" at the end.

[orlando098]

@aviindub

It was great - very Pythonesque

[RichardRoy2]

Thanks HD. Nice work here. Hope you don't mind; I featured this on my channel.

[HonestDiscussioner]

@RichardRoy2 HOW DARE YOU PROMOTE ME!

Oh wait . . . that's a good thing, isn't it?

Well then thank you.

;-)

[RichardRoy2]

@HonestDiscussioner I'm sure there are Christians who might call it something else. Whew. I thought I was going to have to bribe you or something.

[HonestDiscussioner]

@RichardRoy2 Nah. Thanks a lot Richard.

[Eopyk]

Great video :)

[HonestDiscussioner]

@Eopyk Thank you very much.

[stevetheskeptic]

Wow, that guy is such a dishonest butthole!

[ShadowPa1adin]

America was founded on traditional Christian values, such as rebellion against a divinely ordained authority figure and going your own way.

[FaganRoberts]

@ShadowPa1adin Christianity is anything but Libertarian values. Submit or go to hell.

Our country was founded by radical Libertarians, emboldened by Enlightenment secular values. Your god isn't even mentioned in any of our legal founding documents. Christian country? My ass!

[ShadowPa1adin]

@FaganRoberts

And the doesn't understand sarcasm award goes to FaganRoberts.

[FaganRoberts]

@ShadowPa1adin And if I don't win anything, the Incomprehensible Cheapskate of the Year Award goes to.....ShadowPa1adin. I'm pulling for you, sweetheart!

[niriop]

Da-yamn...now this is high quality pwnage!

Strehle is probably the only living philosopher I'd punch in the face for being full of bullshit; at least Scruton, Craig and Plantinga mask their bullshit in a professional manner, while Strehle justs rambles easily disprovable nonsense and mis-truths.

[xBlackSeedxghost]

Hate to be the immature one... but I lold at the "Ultra-Christian sects" part :P

[HonestDiscussioner]

@xBlackSeedxghost I think we can forgive you for that. Somehow. :-)

[Tethloach1]

just because your a professor doesn't mean youy can't be a total moron. and this guy is a total moron wow he should marry the bible if he loves it that much.

[Houshalter]

Statism and religion are unseperable. The first states and most states in history were founded by or based on religion. The state usually enforces religion, and religion keeps people from opposing the state.

[GodofVengence]

green screen was sagging...

[HonestDiscussioner]

@GodofVengence Yeah, I was going to use it, but I screwed up the lighting.

[BusinessIDBAI]

Is epydemic actually in favor of this crap? Moving to unsubscribe from him now. Wow, what a prick.

[HonestDiscussioner]

@BusinessIDBAI Whoa whoa whoa . . don't jump to conclusions. This was just an interview, not a full endorsement. I don't think Epy is anywhere near the Professor, whether he knows it or not. Watch the "burka" video he attached to this video as a response. Then make your judgment.

[itsmaxinthebox]

Very well done video HD. I'm having a hard time saying anything more constructive without being pissed at the that twat.

[HonestDiscussioner]

@itsmaxinthebox There is much I did not cover that still needs addressing.

[TheTomtompiper]

Let the churches have an input into government, but at the cost of losing their tax exempt status. As all of their income is unearned they should be taxed at a high rate, lets say 80%, then they can see how much influence they can wield when they are not sucking the lifeblood out of the rest of society, the leeches.

[HonestDiscussioner]

@TheTomtompiper Churches should be able to petition the government, I'm fine with that, but no law can be passed based solely on their beliefs.

[TheTomtompiper]

@HonestDiscussioner Believe you me, if the cost of having their say is losing their tax exemption they will run away screaming, after all their main purpose in life is the accumulation of wealth. Call their bluff, say OK you can have an input, but we want your money, you will soon be talking to yourself.

[HonestDiscussioner]

@TheTomtompiper Oh no, they'd totally go for it. The first thing they'd do with their new influence is give themselves the tax exemption back.

[TheTomtompiper]

@HonestDiscussioner I have a feeling that once people saw how much tax revenue was generated by the churches paying their own way for a change it would be impossible for them to get the genie back into the bottle, and bereft of their financial clout their opinion would be worthless.  At the moment they can buy MP's Senators and even Presidents (Dubya) but if they are broke and paying tax like the rest of us they will be lucky if they can buy a stamp to send a letter of protest.

[newyears912]

@TheTomtompiper its the truth

[DarkMatter2525]

Beware of what you wish for, Mr. Strehle.

[silversoul7]

When Thomas Jefferson talked about "a wall of separation" between church and state, he got the loudest cheers from Baptists. They understood that separation of church and state goes both ways.

[wimsweden]

Favourited!

[HonestDiscussioner]

@wimsweden Thank you very much! It is appreciated!

[ZombieRyushu]

If you ask me, Christian attempts to impose Christian law on an otherwise Secular state is approaching the threshold of a Criminal act. a Christian Lunatic named James Rushdoonie said something very telling: In the end, Christianity and Democracy must be enemies. If people can vote, they can vote to set aside God's laws.

Christian laws are not something that the majority of people want to be subject to, so they are attemting to do an end run around the constitution.

[HonestDiscussioner]

@ZombieRyushu Who is this James Rushdoonie guy?

[ZombieRyushu]

@HonestDiscussioner Look up the "Second American Revolution" and "Dominionism" and its actually John Rushdoony. He was sorta the beginnings of our "evangelical" He died in 1936 I think. His argument was that Christianity and Democracy are enemies, and the Constitution must be scrapped in favor of a Christian state.

[HonestDiscussioner]

@ZombieRyushu Oh I am familiar with the Dominimists. Those C-Street goons scare the crap out of me.

[ZombieRyushu]

@HonestDiscussioner This is kinda the guy that started it.

[HonestDiscussioner]

@ZombieRyushu If he was in C-Street then it's okay. If we're wrong and there is a god, he's most likely in hell for what he believed.

[ZombieRyushu]

@HonestDiscussioner There can be a god in this universe and that god not be Yahweh.

[HonestDiscussioner]

@ZombieRyushu Quite true.

[YY4Me133]

Great video. Unfortunately, christians are not swayed by facts, or they wouldn't be christians. As long as there are "authority" figures telling christians what they want to hear, many of them are going to believe it, despite evidence to the contrary.

[elguanteloko]

just subscribed. Great video, man!

[HonestDiscussioner]

@elguanteloko Welcome to the party. :-)

[Epydemic2020]

"for all his assetions, the professor does not give a single line that would lead anyone to believe that the framers wanted legislation to be based purely on religious ideas"

I think that is because he doesn't think legislation should be based on religious ideas.

[HonestDiscussioner]

@Epydemic2020 He complained that legislation had to have a non-religious purpose. He thinks values can only be assessed through religious purposes. He thinks the foundation of government should be religious.

It sounds to me as if he wants to establish religion, only not call it an establishment. Maybe it is wrong to say that he wants to establish CHRISTIANITY per se, but if you do establish religion as a foundation of government, I sincerely doubt Hinduism will have much pull.

[Epydemic2020]

@HonestDiscussioner

He doesn't want religion as a foundation of government. He pointed out that religion is founded on many values derived from theistic belief.. but observing that is very different from promoting a religious government.

He supports a type of separation of church and state, just not the type france is currently promoting (I explain more in my video response).

As to his comments about values, he is doing nothing more than posing the moral argument.

[HonestDiscussioner]

@Epydemic2020 "He supports a type of separation of church and state, just not the type france is currently promoting (I explain more in my video response)."

As I pointed out, that ISN'T separation of church and state. If he wants to fight what is going on in France fine, but he's not fighting in France. He's fighting in Virginia, and for what? The 1st amendment already does not allow (rightfully so) the government to hamper personal religious exercises.

[Epydemic2020]

@HonestDiscussioner

Strehle would argue that our government wavers back and forth on this issue. Sometimes interpreting the fist amendment like they would in France, other times interpreting it as I laid out. His new statute is to ensure it does not get interpreted like France interprets it. You don't have to agree with all of his supporting arguments, but his position is not even remotely close to as radical as you make it out to be.

[HonestDiscussioner]

@Epydemic2020 I am only going off of what he is saying. It also stands to reason that if his supporting arguments are not just incorrect, but that he KNOWS they are incorrect (like the Jefferson quote, for example), then he is not someone to be trusted.

I really don't think he wants an establishment, I think he does want religious authority granted the same respect scientific authority has, however. That would be disastrous, to atheists and to religious people.

[Epydemic2020]

@HonestDiscussioner

"I think he does want religious authority granted the same respect scientific authority has"

I just don't see how you could think that is his position.

[HonestDiscussioner]

@Epydemic2020 "I just don't see how you could think that is his position."

Perhaps in my next video on it I will go more in depth on that topic. Honestly, I don't see how you couldn't take it that way.

If he wanted to reinforce actual church state separation, which is antithetical to what he describes the French Enlightenment version as being, he could have done so. cont. ..

[HonestDiscussioner]

@HonestDiscussioner He wouldn't need to include " By deferring to the deity, it conceived of human freedom as finding its surest foundation within a religious matrix" or "These forces pretend that a secular and god-less government is neutral in its treatment of religion"

That last one is what really gets me. A secular government, the way seperationists talk about it, IS neutral in its treatment of religion. Even if unfairness on both ends slips through the cracks, it is in essence neutral cont.

[HonestDiscussioner]

@Epydemic2020 cont. . . To me he is clearly attacking secularism as a whole, and citing a perversion of it as the reason why it must go, equating the hijab (spelling?) ban in France as what separationists in this country are after.

Maybe I'm wrong, but if I am, he is REALLY bad at communicating this.

[lautz73]

@Epydemic2020 If he wants religion to have more say in the government he is promoting the exact opposite of what's going on in France. Where France is, as a state, infringing on religion Strehle is promoting religous infringement upon the state (that is, from my understanding, what he is promoting). Either way the seperation of church and state is removed and the constitution forbids it. So what Strehle is promoting is the removal of part of the constitution that he seems to believe is good.

[Epydemic2020]

@lautz73

Strehle is promoting neither infringement of religion on state or of state on religion. From his perspective, you should not deny something solely because it has religious implications and you cannot promote something solely because it has religious implications.

[lautz73]

@Epydemic2020 I'll stick with my term of infringement. He's saying that what France is doing is wrong, and I agree. But what he is proposing is that religions be granted to block any laws that deal with religions from going into effect. I'll use an example of prayer in school. What he is saying is that since it involves religion that religion should have a say about that law. That is religion getting into the states business. That still removes the barrior of seperation of church and state.

[Epydemic2020]

@lautz73

"What he is saying is that since it involves religion that religion should have a say about that law"

No, he just isn't. He doesn't say that anywhere in the interview.

[HonestDiscussioner]

@Epydemic2020 "I think that is because he doesn't think legislation should be based on religious ideas."

Just so I can be perfectly clear, he does think that legislation should be allowed to be based solely on religious ideas. I'm not accusing him of believe all laws MUST have a religious basis, only that he complained directly about how laws have to have a secular purpose. He does not like that, if the only purpose behind it is religious, he thinks that should be allowed.

[Epydemic2020]

@HonestDiscussioner

The kind of "secular" that Strehle has a problem with is exemplified by Frances decision to ban the hijab, wearing crosses, etc from public schools in 2004 in the name of "separation of church and state". He doesn't think that because something has religious implications it must automatically be excluded. He doesn't believe "if the only purpose behind it is religious, he thinks that should be allowed." It works both ways. You can't make or prohibit a law based on religion.

[HonestDiscussioner]

@Epydemic2020 "The kind of "secular" that Strehle has a problem with is exemplified by Frances decision to ban the hijab, wearing crosses, etc from public schools in 2004 in the name of "separation of church and state""

That's great and all, and I think France went too far, but that isn't happening here. If it is, it's in isolated cases that are eventually overturned.

[Epydemic2020]

@HonestDiscussioner

So to clarify, it Strehle passed the laws in france, I think he would argue:

Separation of church and state makes it so that we should not pass laws requiring people to promote Christianity by wearing crosses and we should not pass laws prohibiting people from wearing crosses solely because it is Christian. I am confident he would argue we need to keep government small and keep it out of our wardrobe.

[HonestDiscussioner]

@HonestDiscussioner He specifically does not like, in the first question you asked him (second interview) the Lemon vs. Kurtzman declaration that states "The government's action must have a secular legislative purpose;". The only way I can see interpreting that is that he thinks "The government's action does not have to have a secular legislative purpose;". This means it can solely have a religious purpose.

The laws in France do NOT have a secular purpose. They are against religion. Bad law.

[Epydemic2020]

whoa, i really dislike the intro. Strehle doesn't by any means argue that america is a Christian nation. You totally misrepresented him there. You go on to completely misrepresent him again. He doesn't want laws to be passed solely on religious beliefs (he wants laws to neither support nor suppress something solely because it is religious, and he certainly doesn't push for Christianity to be the foundation of government).

I'm still watchin the rest of the vid, I just felt I needed to clarify.

[kokofan50]

I love how the people who try to say the US is christian country forget Tomas Pain being one of the most important writers in the birth of the US was every much an athiest. Waht they are tring to do is just stupid. All states run by religion have not done well.

[briancostello1980]

as a christian i approve of this video. Christians are supposed to spread the Gospel, not to legislate morality. Why do you think the christians came here in the first place, the seperation of church and state.

[HonestDiscussioner]

@briancostello1980 I am glad to have your support in this endeavor. Not only do I believe the government needs to be protected from religion, but that it is just as important for religion to be protected from government.

[M0US3P0T4TO]

How am I not subbed to you already? Oh well, whether due to a YouTube screw up or an oversight on my part, the problem is fixed now.

[HonestDiscussioner]

@M0US3P0T4TO Glad to have you. :-)

[sergeantrex]

You just gained a sub.

[HonestDiscussioner]

@sergeantrex Welcome to the channel!

[abbynormal0ne]

Hurrah! Great vid. I feel like attaching my separation of church and state vid to this, but it's not new. I just feel like it's still valid.

[HonestDiscussioner]

@abbynormal0ne Be my guest, my dear.

[abbynormal0ne]

@abbynormal0ne I submitted it. Thanks!

[Eminemno1fan]

Good job, and good luck.

[HonestDiscussioner]

@FujiwaraNoGo I don't know . . . I might welcome it. I still have at least two more videos worth of material to go through however. I'm even wondering if it would just be faster to challenge him to a live debate.

[mrx0066600]

seriously, religious people are so painful to listen to... fucking nonsense...

[WildwoodClaire1]

very enjoyable video!

[HonestDiscussioner]

@WildwoodClaire1 I am glad you enjoyed it.

[Kindertautenleider]

Equal representation in the public forum would mean less church than we have now.

[ProfMTH]

Nicely done.

[HonestDiscussioner]

@ProfMTH I thought you'd like that. Sorry for not giving you attribution for the gallop poll thing. The video has to stay at or below 8 minutes and as you can see I hit my limit. Had to pull off a bunch of tricks to get it down to eight minutes.

I'm not really known for my brevity.

[ProfMTH]

@HonestDiscussioner The Gallup thing is nothing I'm entitled to attribution for--it's just a fact--so not to worry. But I'm curious about why your video had to stay at or below 8 minutes.

[HonestDiscussioner]

@ProfMTH It's for the Pwnage Olympics. Educational category. Coughlan mandated the entries be no longer than eight minutes.

[ProfMTH]

@HonestDiscussioner Ah! ::slaps forehead:: Of course.

[TheSpankymonkey]

I am first. You are not. Deal with it. :-) Have a nice day now....