Remington took colts design and made it cheaper and stronger then the colt for the war contracts. Sadly all Remington did was ride behind the name brand picking up the pieces.
there used to be a local shop that had origionals hanging on the wall, the owner collected them. real colt SAAs, old army and navy revolvers, some w/ the later cartridge modification some not. they were gorgeous
Colts 1860 army was twice the price 22.50 remington 1858/1863 was 12.50 which caused colt to lower the price to 14.50, the rogers & spence was bought by the USA, a few thousand but never issued & kept in storage untill the early 1900's & sold for .25 cents scrap metal, it was the best cap & ball pistol made during the percussion era, FYI
Pyrodex is your friend, man. Plenty of smoke, but not so much fouling.
I wasn't surprised that he could hit the 80 yard gong. Back when the basic infantry weapon was a muzzle-loading "rifled musket", the revolver was the only repeater widely available. So it wasn't just the close-range defensive weapon the sidearm later became. My 1858 shoots point-of-aim at 40 paces.
If you know what you are doing...bp revolvers aren't as slow as you think they are to load. BUT it helps if you use paper cartridges like everyone else did when those revovlers were new. ;^) My navy arms 1851 Colt navy is more accurate than the remingtons I've seen.
@500SWMAGOPERATOR Depends on how you look at it really, they're toys in the same way a Ferrari is, lot of fun to be had if you play safe, but will totally kill you if you forget what you're dealing with
So Mr. Hickok - how did reloading in the battlefield go with these types of revolvers? Did they call a timeout or something? Seems to be a bit of a process.
@DrGreenfun not really. The balls are slightly larger than the cylinder/barrel. When you ram the ball in some of the lead shaves off, and the ball has a very tight fit, giving a tight seal. One would not be able to do this with a steel ball, and getting a good seal for expansion of gasses would be difficult. The steel ball would not have good velocity or accuracy, and the steel could damage the rifling of the barrel.
I really like your videos, Eh? Where can I get a tomahawk like yours? Some coments; that extra cylinder thing is a myth; other than the Ponny Express there is not proof of extra cylinders being manufactured. You should mention that the military issued paper cartidges for the muzzel loaders with pre messured powder charges and for years after the war one could buy those paper cartridges. Keep up the good work, Eh?
I used to watch the Good the Bad and the Ugly at least once a month from when I was about 3 to when I was about 7. I know every line of that movie. I remember Lee Van Cleef's 1858 Remington .44 that he used as Angel Eyes. I remember it being distinct, very different from Clint Eastwoods 1851 Navy. It was that movie that got me so fascinated with firearms. Beautiful weapon.
I got one of these for my girlfriend for Christmas but in a cartridge conversion. I also recently learned that her cousin was one of your favorite students.
Part of the appeal of black powder is how dirty it gets, and the big plume of smoke. Personally I prefer the Remington 1858 to the Colt 1860 Revolver. They were very strong, simple and the quick release cylinder was a nice touch. Though you're wrong in that they were more expensive. Samual Colt was notorious for profiteering and sold his revolvers for as much as $25 a piece, That's two and a half months of a Civil War private's pay. Eli Remington sold his for half of that.
I use 35 grains of "Hodgdon Triple 7" FFFG, burns nice and clean, water clean-up at range, oh did I mention I can paper at 125 yards with this! Not accurately I might add, it has to be a 3x3 target but I can hit it!
Those 1858's are very accurate. I shot a sub 2" group at 25 yards without a problem. They're quicker and easier to reload then the Colt revolvers. The Union used the Remington 1858 during the civil war along with Colts and various other cap and ball revolvers but the 1858 was the revolver of choice for those in the know. Colts couldn't compete with the 1858's accuracy. You didn't have to make any "Kentucky wind-age" adjustments with the 1858 Army, it shot were you pointed it, unlike the Colts.
Thanks for the video. True, a Glock is much cleaner. I use the Pyrodex FFFg grade stuff and it keeps it clean. I also like to pinch the caps slightly so they fit snug on the nipples without mishaps or falling off. Great video Hickok!
hi hickock45. about loading the cap and ball. how can a fired chamber jump fire another chamber? Is not the bullit keeping that secure until fire? Nice Video.
If it's not either sealed up with wax/grease or with patches you run the risk of the sparks and flame seeping into another chamber(s) and setting them off. Like Hickok said, it's not very common but the danger is there if you're not careful with it. Bottom line: I'd always either seal up each cylinder with grease or put those lubricated wool patches between the powder and balls.
It's called a chain fire and it'll ruin your day really quick. A larger diameter lead ball will do the job better then grease. As long as there's a little lead being shaved off when you're loading the ball you're good to go. The balls (or conical bullets) should always swage when they are being rammed into the chamber. The main purpose of grease is to keep the fouling from hardening and ruining your accuracy. After a few shots using black powder your barrel groves get filled.
The shaved off lead should be a ring of lead. Not a partial ring (that means there is a space between the chamber wall and the lead bullet, usually anyway).
Yeah I'm really happy with mine. I have noticed that accuracy gets worse the more I shoot it without cleaning out the rifling. I've never put grease on the nipple threads, I guess that would be fine so long as no grease gets in the actual nipple to prevent firing or contaminate the caps. I use .454 cal balls and I notice a perfect lead ring every time I push one down. Mine shoots about 10-12" high at 15-20 yards and it's probably because I'm not using grease?
Yeah, the fouling needs to be cleaned out every so many shots, it depends on the powder you use and the lube you use. The grease for the threads is literally black, Thompson makes it. I use .454 balls also, for the reasons mentioned. No, you need to adjust your sites. I had to file my front site down because it was shooting low. I've never heard of 1858 shooting high, maybe you need a taller front sight? Is it an Uberti or a Pietta? I have an Uberti.
It's a Pietta 1851 Confederate Navy in .44 cal. There's nothing I can do about the sights, we're talking 12" high at pretty much any distance. I think it's the recoil because the barrel is slinging the ball higher than the point of aim during the miliseconds of firing. I noticed it shot 12" high at 10 yards and about 24" high at about 40 yards. I haven't been using grease at all, maybe I should start and it might get that ball out of the barrel faster before it slings up.
Nah, it isn't the recoil. A taller front sight will fix the problem. There is a mathematical formula that you can use which will tell you exactly what height the front site should be. You should definitely use some form of grease to seal the chambers. The black powder becomes hard (fouling) and fills the rifling, totally destroying accuracy. If you use good grease it will keep the fouling "soft" and your accuracy will return. I haven't shot any of my...
...black powder revolvers for about two years so I forget how many accurate shots you get before the barrel must be cleaned, but I think it's somewhere in the neighborhood of maybe twelve or fifteen shots? Are you sure you aren't flinching do to recoil? That would send the shots high also.
Definitely no flinching haha. I'm getting great groups in great consistency, they're just all high. I consider myself an excellent shot generally speaking, flinching isn't the issue. Unless my sight post is 2-3 inches high, I can't see how small height changes could do anything to the shot pattern given how off it is. I'll try the lube and see if that changes anything.
Haha, okay. Trust me, you won't need a three-inch front site. A front sight that is a few thousandths (or even hundredths) high will change the POI by a very good margin. I've never encountered an 1858 that shot so high in my life.
I use black grease on the threads of the nipples also. Just another precautionary measure to insure no accidents happen. It also makes it easier to remove the nipples for cleaning.
If the bullet diameter isn't large enough (even if it's only off by a few thousandths) it can allow a way in for a flame or a black powder ember. A chain fire can start on the opposite end of the cylinder also, if a cap is so lose that it falls off (another guy gave some good advice, pinch your caps so they fit snugly onto the nipple).
i just got a 1851 navy 44 cal (reproduction) from my grandpa and you said you can use cristco huh, were you just joking as you do or were you serious?-lifes good
He was serious. When I started getting into cap and ball revolvers, I was also recommended the crisco solution. Works like a charm even though it seems rather obscure.
He was serious. I've used Crisco but I prefer the minty stuff you can by at any gun shop. Crisco also has a tendency to get very messy in the summer time. It melts very easily in the summer heat. If I were you I'd make up your own mixture or buy the minty stuff they sell in the stores. Crisco will do in a pinch though, but other then that (I would consider using it in the winter time) I'm not a big fan of it.
Great Video,You have eagle eye's.Question I notice you have iron target's plus a cowboy' & gong what thickness is your metal.I'm sure you also shoot a 44 magnum & 45 colt on these target.?.I want to make my own target I wanna hear that Bing!!!!! noise. just a suggestion on the black powder mess take a $2 box of baby wipe with you.that's what I use to clean my hand's everytime.
manfangle1 You are right, those were all improvements on the Beals patent of 1858. The New Model Army is the 1863. "1858 New Model Army" is technically a misnomer.
Use black powder. That's what I use because that's what they used historically up to the mid 1890s, and most people still used black powder long after that. Its about history, not convenience. Black powder will teach you how to clean your guns. Pyro and smokeless are for pussies who can't clean their guns the right way !!!!!!
By the way, it's not an 1858 model. He's got the New Model Army, which was the 1863 Remington. 1858 was the year of the Beals patent. Navy Arms made the mistake of calling it the 1858 when they started marketing them because they didn't know the history, but unfortunately, everyone still calls it the 1858.
@hankbob2000 Remington introduced their New Model Army .44 revolver in 1863. It was an improved version of the earlier Remington-Beals and Remington Army revolvers of 1860, 1861 and 1862. The basic patent for all of these was issued in 1858. This is how the model later became known as the "1858" Remington New Model Army.
@manfangle1 You are right, those were all improvements on the Beals patent of 1858. As I said, the New Model Army is the 1863. "1858 New Model Army" which many people call it, is technically a misnomer.
i have a cotton rag with bore butter on one corner, i give it a wipe and it keeps that black powder residue at bay most of the time hahahahah. thankyou for posting this. made my heart skip to see the old ways being kept alive!
@www7598wr2 Yes, because by definition a cap and ball revolver is what's called an "Antique Firearm". That means they're not considered an actual firearm (go figure). You can find more information about it if you go to the ATF's website and look under Firearms Publications.
@hickok45 Great video. I just wanted to say that Remington 1858 were a lot cheaper than Colts at the time. The model 1858 was worth 12$ vs 25$ for a Colt 1851 or 1860. Mr. Remington said to the goverment he could make "Colt" revolvers for about half the price of Colt's. So towards the end of the Civil War Colt had to sale his guns for 14,5$. (just my little contribution to your great vid)
@hpbroncofan I heard that in "Tales of The Guns". But you have to remember that 25$ of 1860 is not worth 25$ of 2011 !!! For example a Union Soldier earned 13$ a month at the time and it was not bad. 6 cartridges of an SAA Colt were worth half a daily pay of a cowboy in the West (cheaper in the East). So guns are cheaper now IMHO.
My 1858 Remington shoots very low when I load with 30 grains. When I bump it up to 40 grains, it hits almost point of aim. Maybe you can do a black powder revolver cleaning video.
Sadly because of our overly restrictive gun laws these are pretty much the only pistols we can own in the UK (rifles & shotguns are still ok though).I bought one of these pistols recently and yes black powder is messy to load,dirty to shoot and time consuming to clean afterwards,but it puts an enormous grin on your face!
@xXArt1cFoxXx Btw, I'm sure you know how lame the gun laws are over here in the UK, but if you get an original 1858, there's no licence over here, just have to be 18, and it can be sent in a standard parcel.
I have heard of cowboys back in the day using some kind of paper wading for these cap and balls pistols. I guessthey basically put the powder and ball rolled up in some kind of paper wading or foil wading for "easier" reloading. Amazing video Hickok!
I was thinking that the measuring cylinder must have a special mechanism inside to not cause friction when you close the little valve to cut off the flow of black powder. I'd be afraid of holding that cylinder in my hand and then letting that little valve snap closed!! Thanks for the video! I have two 1851 Navy's and one Ruger Old Army that I've never fired before.
My navy model has a majorly annoying pin that goes through, with a spring on it, you have to remove to get the barrell off and the cylinder out. This one looks soooo much easier.
Excellent explaination of nearly all aspects of firing, reloading, advantages, and the clitches of the great historic1858 Remington cap and ball revolver. Thank you. Well,... I think I thank you anyway. Because I'm bringing mine out again to get all filthy like you did. Maybe I should blame you instead. LOL! ;D
You don't have to worry about jamming if you take a box of baby wipes with you and wipe off the cylinder, frame and forcing cone after shooting each cylinder full. It'll load and shoot another cylinder happily after that.
Its mostly to prevent the "fire" from the powder going into another cylinder, so he used enough to make sure there was a seal in front of the ball. (packing that much in there makes sure it is sealed)
i have to say hickock i think a dragoon is more your style or maybe you could be a real pioneer and get one of those 9 shot lemat black powder revolver
@TheIronicBanana Well you are working with gun powder.....it would be safer to to do it one at a time because then you would not have 6 open exposed chambers filled with powder not sealed off. I used dto make my own fire works so I know about things accidently combusting and chain firing
I still want more cap and ball videos! I'm planning on ordering my first (1860 Army .44, steel frame, with starter kit) tonight from cabales (Pietta). Also ordering a pound of Pyrodex (can't find any real BP, and for just starting out I wouldn't want it anyway). A hundred .454 swaged Hornady balls. And 1000 (man I wish I could order less) Remington #10 percussion caps. All for around 415 bucks. Hope it's fun, though I might convert it someday!
@crazyheatrocker typically, if you use something to block access to the powder in other chambers (wonder wads or some kind of "barrel butter" as i've heard it called, or "bear grease" like hickok used in the video), it will keep it from chain firing.
on a side note, if i'm remembering correctly (i'm probably not), the early colt walker design had thin chamber walls because of the larger .44 ball, and if the shooter wasn't careful during loading, the walls could rupture and cause a chain fire.
I used to have an 1858 "buffalo." For those who are unfamiliar, it is identical to that one but with a 12" barrel and a brass frame. I loved shooting that gun. Yes, ball and cap revolvers are dirty and messy, but there is something to be said for the "self loading" experience, as opposed to just slapping in a clip and going bang bang bang.. I preferred Pyrodex, as it is cleaner and a bit more powerful than black powder. And I thought it was a very pretty handgun. ;)
Cool video!!! I like to shoot black powder guns. My first black powder pistol was a small Philadelphia Derringer in caliber .44 (the same gun Abraham Lincoln was assassinated back in those days).
The first time I shoot with that small pistol it feels like a horse kicked me in my ass. My hand still hurts when I think back "lol".
You can buy conversion kits to shoot 22lr(will not damage gun because it places a small barrel within the original barrel),or conversion cylinders for 45acp,45 colt, or 45 Scholfield for the Uberti 1858 Remington however you will need to shoot lead bullets and use velocities recommended. The 45 colt by far being the most popular, bought and available.you use cowboy loads and the accuracy is great because the bullet fits in the barrle tightly and because of the modern rifling in Uberti's.
Hickok, if you don't particularly like the "project" of loading the C&B revolvers, try making your own paper cartridges with cigarette papers to make loading easier!
i have one of these great guns, but i have one with the entire brass frame... ive actually been shooting it with just 10 grains of powder, after watching this video, im gonna step it up to about 20 or 30 grains next time at the range
i like cap and ball guns, i think i am going to get a 1858 Remington sometime as a kit and finish making it myself. you can actually use bacon grease on the cylinder.
@gunmum123 You need a permit in NY only if you plan on shooting the gun. You can buy a cap & ball gun without a permit. But once you purchase the powder, balls, etc., you must put the gun on a permit.
Whenever I would fire mine I'd take a piece of paper that was coated in bore butter and place that between the powder and the ball. It created a really nice, tight, chamber and lubed the barrel very well. Also my Remington handeled .454 rounds excellently. It was a good first cap and ball revolver. I wish I still had it.
I don't think this .44 is technically a .45 like he said. You would have to measure the I.D. of the bore to tell for sure, but you start out with an oversize ball and it squeezes down smaller when you press it into the cylinder.
if you are in a battle with this gun your dead is sure men...
seita89ify 1 day ago
is he liam nison??
seita89ify 1 day ago
Remington took colts design and made it cheaper and stronger then the colt for the war contracts. Sadly all Remington did was ride behind the name brand picking up the pieces.
Jaket2000 2 days ago
nice hat
wvdeerhunter62 4 days ago
if he can hit the gong with that thing, he needs scientific tests done on him..
tristanchapman 5 days ago
there used to be a local shop that had origionals hanging on the wall, the owner collected them. real colt SAAs, old army and navy revolvers, some w/ the later cartridge modification some not. they were gorgeous
darksamurai73 1 week ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Colts 1860 army was twice the price 22.50 remington 1858/1863 was 12.50 which caused colt to lower the price to 14.50, the rogers & spence was bought by the USA, a few thousand but never issued & kept in storage untill the early 1900's & sold for .25 cents scrap metal, it was the best cap & ball pistol made during the percussion era, FYI
jozap566 1 week ago
Pyrodex is your friend, man. Plenty of smoke, but not so much fouling.
I wasn't surprised that he could hit the 80 yard gong. Back when the basic infantry weapon was a muzzle-loading "rifled musket", the revolver was the only repeater widely available. So it wasn't just the close-range defensive weapon the sidearm later became. My 1858 shoots point-of-aim at 40 paces.
rajvader 1 week ago
If you know what you are doing...bp revolvers aren't as slow as you think they are to load. BUT it helps if you use paper cartridges like everyone else did when those revovlers were new. ;^) My navy arms 1851 Colt navy is more accurate than the remingtons I've seen.
GrigoriZhukov 2 weeks ago
balls, nipples, dirty hands, wonder lube... We still talkin about guns? lol
11bHOOAHH 2 weeks ago 11
im 11 and i could watch this stuff all day long
Thetubeman674 3 weeks ago
@Thetubeman674 Hickok posts alot of good videos. Alot of us watch and enjoy his videos but, always remember guns are NOT toys.
500SWMAGOPERATOR 2 weeks ago
@500SWMAGOPERATOR Depends on how you look at it really, they're toys in the same way a Ferrari is, lot of fun to be had if you play safe, but will totally kill you if you forget what you're dealing with
SavageGerbil 3 days ago
it took him roughly 7 minutes to load this... i take cartridges for granted.
ededdneddyrkings 3 weeks ago
@ededdneddyrkings I take using paper cartridges for granted when I shoot my colt navy.
GrigoriZhukov 2 weeks ago
Jose Wales made it look a hole lot easier!!
badeyebill50 1 month ago
Could you make a video of the same revolver with a cartridge conversion from r&d?
96BroncoEB 1 month ago
Reminds me of Devil's right hand - Steve Earle,
~
My very first pistol was a cap and ball colt
Shoots as fast as lightin' but it loads a mighty slow
Loads a mighty slow and soon i found out
It can get you into trouble but it can't get you out
ColibriMONOPOL 1 month ago
He shoots the gong at 15:18
ConnerHenry93 1 month ago
So Mr. Hickok - how did reloading in the battlefield go with these types of revolvers? Did they call a timeout or something? Seems to be a bit of a process.
CleanTheWookie 1 month ago
What a hoot! I'd love to get one of the Ruger cap and balls.
Optimatorz 1 month ago
YEAH! CAP THEM NIPPLES.
creekrocker 1 month ago
could you use ball bearings? or steel balls instead of lead?
DrGreenfun 1 month ago
@DrGreenfun not really. The balls are slightly larger than the cylinder/barrel. When you ram the ball in some of the lead shaves off, and the ball has a very tight fit, giving a tight seal. One would not be able to do this with a steel ball, and getting a good seal for expansion of gasses would be difficult. The steel ball would not have good velocity or accuracy, and the steel could damage the rifling of the barrel.
mrs2691 1 month ago
oorah black powder all the way go big or go home pyrodex sucks we shot blanks out of my .75 caliber cannon and it was terrible
ocarlson007 1 month ago
Back in 1860 you would need to carry two of those. A second one to defend youself while reloading the first.
charlesvan13 1 month ago
Is it hazardous handling the black powder while loading?
Say you're standing on a carpet and a static spark came from your finger while inserting the ball. Could it blow up in your face?
charlesvan13 1 month ago
Can you do a vid if you can on the civil war starr pistol, they where private buys and where in double action, and latwer they went to single action
TGCS 1 month ago
you forgot your ears when you fired the .44
admmaddog1 1 month ago
have you try the french lemat ?
druisteen2 1 month ago
Weapons like these are so cool, their not so clinical as modern guns.
MsDjessa 1 month ago
i wondered. can i put cotton in it instead of a projetile and shoot blanks that way
agentkapser 2 months ago
@agentkapser I've heard you can use cream of wheat and also beeswax which helps keep the powder in
novakmast21 1 month ago
@novakmast21 thanks... but im sure im never get one... i was just wondering
agentkapser 1 month ago
Is that an uberti? Or actually remington?
WildGaston 2 months ago
Comment removed
chickenfarmer296 2 months ago
@chickenfarmer296 im 14 as well i bet i know more ha groing up in a military/gun familly
WCAIRSOFTDIVISION 2 months ago
@WCAIRSOFTDIVISION lol
WCAIRSOFTDIVISION 2 months ago
ha he said balls and nipples
thebailster5 2 months ago
I really like your videos, Eh? Where can I get a tomahawk like yours? Some coments; that extra cylinder thing is a myth; other than the Ponny Express there is not proof of extra cylinders being manufactured. You should mention that the military issued paper cartidges for the muzzel loaders with pre messured powder charges and for years after the war one could buy those paper cartridges. Keep up the good work, Eh?
PawneeStrider74a 2 months ago
I used to watch the Good the Bad and the Ugly at least once a month from when I was about 3 to when I was about 7. I know every line of that movie. I remember Lee Van Cleef's 1858 Remington .44 that he used as Angel Eyes. I remember it being distinct, very different from Clint Eastwoods 1851 Navy. It was that movie that got me so fascinated with firearms. Beautiful weapon.
bretthauerseven 2 months ago
Great vid----nice to see BRAIN power included.Thanks
richbd359 2 months ago
Not as fun if it doesnt scare liberals.
9piecewood 2 months ago
Have you tried using conical bullets instead of ball? If you have was the accuracy better than using ball, and are they "easier" to load?
MrJmak223 2 months ago
when ever i set a ball i get a complete lead ring. its sealed . you dont need grease or wool wads . you need bigger balls!
chuckfroe 2 months ago
I got one of these for my girlfriend for Christmas but in a cartridge conversion. I also recently learned that her cousin was one of your favorite students.
LinusManning 2 months ago
Part of the appeal of black powder is how dirty it gets, and the big plume of smoke. Personally I prefer the Remington 1858 to the Colt 1860 Revolver. They were very strong, simple and the quick release cylinder was a nice touch. Though you're wrong in that they were more expensive. Samual Colt was notorious for profiteering and sold his revolvers for as much as $25 a piece, That's two and a half months of a Civil War private's pay. Eli Remington sold his for half of that.
AduneStormwind 3 months ago
I wonder what it was like to reload this type of gun in the heat of battle.
CBBMachineGun1988 3 months ago
@CBBMachineGun1988
Im guessing it was frightening!
vegas2004 3 months ago
I use 35 grains of "Hodgdon Triple 7" FFFG, burns nice and clean, water clean-up at range, oh did I mention I can paper at 125 yards with this! Not accurately I might add, it has to be a 3x3 target but I can hit it!
TheeBudGuru 3 months ago
@TheeBudGuru
An honest and very funny reply!
vegas2004 3 months ago
Those 1858's are very accurate. I shot a sub 2" group at 25 yards without a problem. They're quicker and easier to reload then the Colt revolvers. The Union used the Remington 1858 during the civil war along with Colts and various other cap and ball revolvers but the 1858 was the revolver of choice for those in the know. Colts couldn't compete with the 1858's accuracy. You didn't have to make any "Kentucky wind-age" adjustments with the 1858 Army, it shot were you pointed it, unlike the Colts.
Greyswyndir 3 months ago 5
Thanks for the video. True, a Glock is much cleaner. I use the Pyrodex FFFg grade stuff and it keeps it clean. I also like to pinch the caps slightly so they fit snug on the nipples without mishaps or falling off. Great video Hickok!
watch?v=_wvM8aAkY68
Mr2ndAmendment 3 months ago
hi hickock45. about loading the cap and ball. how can a fired chamber jump fire another chamber? Is not the bullit keeping that secure until fire? Nice Video.
jassoe 3 months ago
@jassoe
If it's not either sealed up with wax/grease or with patches you run the risk of the sparks and flame seeping into another chamber(s) and setting them off. Like Hickok said, it's not very common but the danger is there if you're not careful with it. Bottom line: I'd always either seal up each cylinder with grease or put those lubricated wool patches between the powder and balls.
Mr2ndAmendment 3 months ago
@Mr2ndAmendment,
It's called a chain fire and it'll ruin your day really quick. A larger diameter lead ball will do the job better then grease. As long as there's a little lead being shaved off when you're loading the ball you're good to go. The balls (or conical bullets) should always swage when they are being rammed into the chamber. The main purpose of grease is to keep the fouling from hardening and ruining your accuracy. After a few shots using black powder your barrel groves get filled.
Greyswyndir 3 months ago
P.S.,
The shaved off lead should be a ring of lead. Not a partial ring (that means there is a space between the chamber wall and the lead bullet, usually anyway).
Greyswyndir 3 months ago
@Greyswyndir
Yeah I'm really happy with mine. I have noticed that accuracy gets worse the more I shoot it without cleaning out the rifling. I've never put grease on the nipple threads, I guess that would be fine so long as no grease gets in the actual nipple to prevent firing or contaminate the caps. I use .454 cal balls and I notice a perfect lead ring every time I push one down. Mine shoots about 10-12" high at 15-20 yards and it's probably because I'm not using grease?
Mr2ndAmendment 3 months ago
@Mr2ndAmendment,
Yeah, the fouling needs to be cleaned out every so many shots, it depends on the powder you use and the lube you use. The grease for the threads is literally black, Thompson makes it. I use .454 balls also, for the reasons mentioned. No, you need to adjust your sites. I had to file my front site down because it was shooting low. I've never heard of 1858 shooting high, maybe you need a taller front sight? Is it an Uberti or a Pietta? I have an Uberti.
Greyswyndir 3 months ago
@Greyswyndir
It's a Pietta 1851 Confederate Navy in .44 cal. There's nothing I can do about the sights, we're talking 12" high at pretty much any distance. I think it's the recoil because the barrel is slinging the ball higher than the point of aim during the miliseconds of firing. I noticed it shot 12" high at 10 yards and about 24" high at about 40 yards. I haven't been using grease at all, maybe I should start and it might get that ball out of the barrel faster before it slings up.
Mr2ndAmendment 3 months ago
@Mr2ndAmendment,
Nah, it isn't the recoil. A taller front sight will fix the problem. There is a mathematical formula that you can use which will tell you exactly what height the front site should be. You should definitely use some form of grease to seal the chambers. The black powder becomes hard (fouling) and fills the rifling, totally destroying accuracy. If you use good grease it will keep the fouling "soft" and your accuracy will return. I haven't shot any of my...
Greyswyndir 3 months ago
...black powder revolvers for about two years so I forget how many accurate shots you get before the barrel must be cleaned, but I think it's somewhere in the neighborhood of maybe twelve or fifteen shots? Are you sure you aren't flinching do to recoil? That would send the shots high also.
Greyswyndir 3 months ago
@Greyswyndir
Definitely no flinching haha. I'm getting great groups in great consistency, they're just all high. I consider myself an excellent shot generally speaking, flinching isn't the issue. Unless my sight post is 2-3 inches high, I can't see how small height changes could do anything to the shot pattern given how off it is. I'll try the lube and see if that changes anything.
Mr2ndAmendment 3 months ago
@Mr2ndAmendment,
Haha, okay. Trust me, you won't need a three-inch front site. A front sight that is a few thousandths (or even hundredths) high will change the POI by a very good margin. I've never encountered an 1858 that shot so high in my life.
Greyswyndir 3 months ago
@Mr2ndAmendment,
P.S. brother,
I use black grease on the threads of the nipples also. Just another precautionary measure to insure no accidents happen. It also makes it easier to remove the nipples for cleaning.
Greyswyndir 3 months ago 7
@jassoe,
If the bullet diameter isn't large enough (even if it's only off by a few thousandths) it can allow a way in for a flame or a black powder ember. A chain fire can start on the opposite end of the cylinder also, if a cap is so lose that it falls off (another guy gave some good advice, pinch your caps so they fit snugly onto the nipple).
Greyswyndir 3 months ago
i just got a 1851 navy 44 cal (reproduction) from my grandpa and you said you can use cristco huh, were you just joking as you do or were you serious?-lifes good
1antisupercat 3 months ago
@1antisupercat
He was serious. When I started getting into cap and ball revolvers, I was also recommended the crisco solution. Works like a charm even though it seems rather obscure.
Mr2ndAmendment 3 months ago
@1antisupercat,
He was serious. I've used Crisco but I prefer the minty stuff you can by at any gun shop. Crisco also has a tendency to get very messy in the summer time. It melts very easily in the summer heat. If I were you I'd make up your own mixture or buy the minty stuff they sell in the stores. Crisco will do in a pinch though, but other then that (I would consider using it in the winter time) I'm not a big fan of it.
Greyswyndir 3 months ago
Great Video,You have eagle eye's.Question I notice you have iron target's plus a cowboy' & gong what thickness is your metal.I'm sure you also shoot a 44 magnum & 45 colt on these target.?.I want to make my own target I wanna hear that Bing!!!!! noise. just a suggestion on the black powder mess take a $2 box of baby wipe with you.that's what I use to clean my hand's everytime.
coldpak82 3 months ago
manfangle1 You are right, those were all improvements on the Beals patent of 1858. The New Model Army is the 1863. "1858 New Model Army" is technically a misnomer.
hankbob2000 3 months ago
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Folgrin 3 months ago
Use black powder. That's what I use because that's what they used historically up to the mid 1890s, and most people still used black powder long after that. Its about history, not convenience. Black powder will teach you how to clean your guns. Pyro and smokeless are for pussies who can't clean their guns the right way !!!!!!
hankbob2000 3 months ago
By the way, it's not an 1858 model. He's got the New Model Army, which was the 1863 Remington. 1858 was the year of the Beals patent. Navy Arms made the mistake of calling it the 1858 when they started marketing them because they didn't know the history, but unfortunately, everyone still calls it the 1858.
hankbob2000 3 months ago
@hankbob2000 Remington introduced their New Model Army .44 revolver in 1863. It was an improved version of the earlier Remington-Beals and Remington Army revolvers of 1860, 1861 and 1862. The basic patent for all of these was issued in 1858. This is how the model later became known as the "1858" Remington New Model Army.
manfangle1 3 months ago
@manfangle1 You are right, those were all improvements on the Beals patent of 1858. As I said, the New Model Army is the 1863. "1858 New Model Army" which many people call it, is technically a misnomer.
hankbob2000 3 months ago
where do you get caps?
ET51X 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
If you have a spare moment, I’d be very cuffed if you could do a chapter two. #8-)
BobRoberts1987 4 months ago
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123chaseyoung 4 months ago
i have a cotton rag with bore butter on one corner, i give it a wipe and it keeps that black powder residue at bay most of the time hahahahah. thankyou for posting this. made my heart skip to see the old ways being kept alive!
glynamus 4 months ago
if i were to buy one of these could i have it shipped to my door instead of a ffl holder?
www7598wr2 4 months ago
@www7598wr2 Yes, because by definition a cap and ball revolver is what's called an "Antique Firearm". That means they're not considered an actual firearm (go figure). You can find more information about it if you go to the ATF's website and look under Firearms Publications.
Weaponcollecter16 4 months ago
Use pyrodex...its cleaner than old black powder.
SuperLou63 4 months ago in playlist More videos from hickok45
@SuperLou63, I could also use a Glock; it's WAY cleaner than either. :-)
hickok45 4 months ago 34
@hickok45 Great video. I just wanted to say that Remington 1858 were a lot cheaper than Colts at the time. The model 1858 was worth 12$ vs 25$ for a Colt 1851 or 1860. Mr. Remington said to the goverment he could make "Colt" revolvers for about half the price of Colt's. So towards the end of the Civil War Colt had to sale his guns for 14,5$. (just my little contribution to your great vid)
ChurchillCigar 2 months ago
@ChurchillCigar damn 12 to 25 dollars i wish i lived back then lol
hpbroncofan 2 months ago in playlist More videos from hickok45
@hpbroncofan I heard that in "Tales of The Guns". But you have to remember that 25$ of 1860 is not worth 25$ of 2011 !!! For example a Union Soldier earned 13$ a month at the time and it was not bad. 6 cartridges of an SAA Colt were worth half a daily pay of a cowboy in the West (cheaper in the East). So guns are cheaper now IMHO.
ChurchillCigar 2 months ago
@hickok45 wir mögen alte Waffen Klock ist das DING was sie meinen Sir Glocken remember Schillers Glocke
ottothefreak 1 month ago
My 1858 Remington shoots very low when I load with 30 grains. When I bump it up to 40 grains, it hits almost point of aim. Maybe you can do a black powder revolver cleaning video.
MrJoey450 4 months ago
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albusfeather 4 months ago
Less rounds were never fired in a Hickok video :)
Tenacious21 4 months ago
Very cool, thanks Hickok!
TheDesertRoseRanch 5 months ago
Sadly because of our overly restrictive gun laws these are pretty much the only pistols we can own in the UK (rifles & shotguns are still ok though).I bought one of these pistols recently and yes black powder is messy to load,dirty to shoot and time consuming to clean afterwards,but it puts an enormous grin on your face!
vegas2004 5 months ago in playlist hunting
Cool i have one. I inherited an original one.
148scalemodeling 5 months ago
I have the brass frame version of this pistol. I love it!
heartsglory 5 months ago
ive seen that chain reaction happen to a guy, luckily he didnt get hurt. now the gun tho, well it blew to pieces,
TheZoelzer2 5 months ago
i saw a real nice cap and ball at my gun store brand new for $300. nice chrome with gold trim and white handle.
daniel55645 5 months ago
I recognize this from the outtakes...
ngDetecter 5 months ago
what's the talk about silver coming out more easily?
assman255 5 months ago
Forgot to say, use only conversion kits with steel frames replicas, not with brass frames ones.
ullose4me 5 months ago
A bit lot of grease over these bullets!!
I bathe my bullets in a bit of grease just enough to have all the bullets lubed.
What I dislike a bit about it is that the beautifull bronze parts (not on black revolvers like this one) gets dirty for life really fast.
This guns needs intensive cleaning and lubing if not the dirt gets crazy and the mechanisim will stiffen.
Also it doesn't stand modern black powder. Replicas are not upgraded to stand the pressure, but catridge converters will work safely.
ullose4me 5 months ago
Are'nt you afraid shooting a steel plate that close, of the bullet bouncing back and hitting you?
SilverMoonAir 5 months ago
@SilverMoonAir hes firing lead bullets when they hit the steel they disintegrate
thedoubledeus 5 months ago
how old do u have to be to buy one of these i heard 18+ for a rly dumb reason so i dont believe it btw love ur vids
hopecamel 5 months ago
@hopecamel Actually, You have to be 21.
18 for rifles.
16 for shotguns.
xXArt1cFoxXx 5 months ago
@xXArt1cFoxXx In America? It's 21 for BOTH rifles and handguns, and 18 for shotguns. Trust me, if it was 16 I'd have myself a few saigas. haha
TheGenShadoe 5 months ago
@TheGenShadoe gun laws vary from state to state I don't know about where your from but in nc its 18 for rifles and shotguns and 21 for handguns
dcguitar357 5 months ago
@xXArt1cFoxXx I thought they weren't classed as firearms in the US, you can have them sent straight to your home can't you?
P1LGY 5 months ago
@xXArt1cFoxXx Btw, I'm sure you know how lame the gun laws are over here in the UK, but if you get an original 1858, there's no licence over here, just have to be 18, and it can be sent in a standard parcel.
P1LGY 5 months ago
I have heard of cowboys back in the day using some kind of paper wading for these cap and balls pistols. I guessthey basically put the powder and ball rolled up in some kind of paper wading or foil wading for "easier" reloading. Amazing video Hickok!
Metelrebel3 6 months ago
I was thinking that the measuring cylinder must have a special mechanism inside to not cause friction when you close the little valve to cut off the flow of black powder. I'd be afraid of holding that cylinder in my hand and then letting that little valve snap closed!! Thanks for the video! I have two 1851 Navy's and one Ruger Old Army that I've never fired before.
ung427 6 months ago
My navy model has a majorly annoying pin that goes through, with a spring on it, you have to remove to get the barrell off and the cylinder out. This one looks soooo much easier.
supermuddymud 6 months ago
you definately need a capper
supermuddymud 6 months ago
Excellent explaination of nearly all aspects of firing, reloading, advantages, and the clitches of the great historic1858 Remington cap and ball revolver. Thank you. Well,... I think I thank you anyway. Because I'm bringing mine out again to get all filthy like you did. Maybe I should blame you instead. LOL! ;D
Ghstwn 6 months ago
Are most of these bp revolvers rifled or smooth bore
spiralcause1 6 months ago
@spiralcause1 most are rifled
the86thcreator 6 months ago
dude this guy is a true American
spiralcause1 6 months ago
22 people don't like getting dirty fingers
beckerqueiroz 6 months ago in playlist my cool stuff 14
"Talk about history" hmmm (smells) "Smells like history, looks like history"
hahaha good line
beckerqueiroz 6 months ago in playlist my cool stuff
thank sir for that info realy made my day
ray di muro
Canada
raidim 6 months ago
You don't have to worry about jamming if you take a box of baby wipes with you and wipe off the cylinder, frame and forcing cone after shooting each cylinder full. It'll load and shoot another cylinder happily after that.
9gello 6 months ago
very cool i got to get one of those
eatwatukill 6 months ago
What powder load do you shoot ? They said max load 15 . 1858 rem 44 black power by PETA
MikeAg68 6 months ago
I also saw that thing on the bottom of the gun and said wow that looks really cool and I've always Luke these guns
HCSTalmoon 6 months ago
Remingtons were more elegant than Colts,imho. I like the 51/2" barrel version of that gun.
pveg65 7 months ago
Hickok, I'm digging your hat! you should wear it more in your videos!
busyhands94 7 months ago
is this gun made by Pietta?
marlinshh 7 months ago
great vids man what do u you thank about the 308 rifle ?
diptester 7 months ago
It would be faster to just use a percussion blackpower pistol. could reload 6 shots a heck of a lot faster.
TheKodiak72 7 months ago
is that much lube needed?!
fishblade2 7 months ago
@fishblade2
Its mostly to prevent the "fire" from the powder going into another cylinder, so he used enough to make sure there was a seal in front of the ball. (packing that much in there makes sure it is sealed)
LibertyPrized 7 months ago
also what is the name of the piece that you would take a cylinder and load it on separate from the gun? I just can't think of their name...
fishblade2 7 months ago
i have noticed that there are some cap and ball revolvers made by pietta. Would you recommend them or have you heard that they are bad?
fishblade2 7 months ago
you can get conversions for it. to shoot cartridges. if you wanted to shoot it more its an option
Skyde67 7 months ago
damn i wouldnt want to have to try and kill a man with 22 short. brutal. better hit em right in the eye
njmvermont 7 months ago
good old technology !
GladiatorMK100 7 months ago
i have to say hickock i think a dragoon is more your style or maybe you could be a real pioneer and get one of those 9 shot lemat black powder revolver
TJkillsall 7 months ago
Ya can't git that with a Glock! Never was a truer statement made!
RustyCarnahan 8 months ago
many recommend the pads too, when loading.
9jmorrison 8 months ago
"You can't get that with a glock" - The exact reason I'm a black powder man lol. Thanks for the vids.
CrazyCanuck129 8 months ago
that is why i love black powder!
busyhands94 8 months ago
not that I am any expert but is it really best to charge all the chambers first? Would it be safer to load one chamber at a time?
inkey2 8 months ago
@inkey2 why
TheIronicBanana 8 months ago
@TheIronicBanana Well you are working with gun powder.....it would be safer to to do it one at a time because then you would not have 6 open exposed chambers filled with powder not sealed off. I used dto make my own fire works so I know about things accidently combusting and chain firing
inkey2 8 months ago
@inkey2 Thanks! I am new to Black powder firearms.
I have never fired one yet, I am doing research about what type to buy etc.
Thanks for telling me that tip.
TheIronicBanana 8 months ago
That slow burning powder makes a terrific boom and a big cloud. I love black powder guns.
wkLeoTrooper 8 months ago
I still want more cap and ball videos! I'm planning on ordering my first (1860 Army .44, steel frame, with starter kit) tonight from cabales (Pietta). Also ordering a pound of Pyrodex (can't find any real BP, and for just starting out I wouldn't want it anyway). A hundred .454 swaged Hornady balls. And 1000 (man I wish I could order less) Remington #10 percussion caps. All for around 415 bucks. Hope it's fun, though I might convert it someday!
ImWatchinTheTube 8 months ago
have you thought about a conversion cylinder to .45 colt metallic ?
Perseiden2 8 months ago
is that a pietta?
temple400 8 months ago
@temple400 Hickok's gun is a Navy Arms, check the description.
ImWatchinTheTube 8 months ago
how do you prevent the sparks from detonating the other chambers?
crazyheatrocker 9 months ago
@crazyheatrocker typically, if you use something to block access to the powder in other chambers (wonder wads or some kind of "barrel butter" as i've heard it called, or "bear grease" like hickok used in the video), it will keep it from chain firing.
on a side note, if i'm remembering correctly (i'm probably not), the early colt walker design had thin chamber walls because of the larger .44 ball, and if the shooter wasn't careful during loading, the walls could rupture and cause a chain fire.
ironman052992 9 months ago
@crazyheatrocker What do you think the grease was for?
Roland0314 8 months ago
I used to have an 1858 "buffalo." For those who are unfamiliar, it is identical to that one but with a 12" barrel and a brass frame. I loved shooting that gun. Yes, ball and cap revolvers are dirty and messy, but there is something to be said for the "self loading" experience, as opposed to just slapping in a clip and going bang bang bang.. I preferred Pyrodex, as it is cleaner and a bit more powerful than black powder. And I thought it was a very pretty handgun. ;)
CorneliusSneedley 9 months ago
Bear grease and nipple caps? Sounds fun! :P
leetphailure 9 months ago
Cool video!!! I like to shoot black powder guns. My first black powder pistol was a small Philadelphia Derringer in caliber .44 (the same gun Abraham Lincoln was assassinated back in those days).
The first time I shoot with that small pistol it feels like a horse kicked me in my ass. My hand still hurts when I think back "lol".
ganimed1976 9 months ago
You can buy conversion kits to shoot 22lr(will not damage gun because it places a small barrel within the original barrel),or conversion cylinders for 45acp,45 colt, or 45 Scholfield for the Uberti 1858 Remington however you will need to shoot lead bullets and use velocities recommended. The 45 colt by far being the most popular, bought and available.you use cowboy loads and the accuracy is great because the bullet fits in the barrle tightly and because of the modern rifling in Uberti's.
alejandrosantana1991 9 months ago
do these guns have as much kick as a regular .44 or .45
pianoguy98 9 months ago
@pianoguy98
It shouldn't, see 08:40
less powder makes for less recoil.
kipchak 9 months ago
Hickok, if you don't particularly like the "project" of loading the C&B revolvers, try making your own paper cartridges with cigarette papers to make loading easier!
themadmailler 10 months ago
Colt must really like that .454 bore. Their .45 Colt revolvers have a .454 bore as well.
idsman75 11 months ago
i have one of these great guns, but i have one with the entire brass frame... ive actually been shooting it with just 10 grains of powder, after watching this video, im gonna step it up to about 20 or 30 grains next time at the range
hippieinmississippi 11 months ago
@xxrobloxiaxx yes smith and wesson devolped the first in the mid 1850s kinda cause winchester had devolped the first henry repeaters in 44 flat
deepwoodskentuckian 11 months ago
i like cap and ball guns, i think i am going to get a 1858 Remington sometime as a kit and finish making it myself. you can actually use bacon grease on the cylinder.
busyhands94 11 months ago
Great Video! I’m new to the sport and learned a lot. Thanks!
J89898080 11 months ago
Dear Hickock, do you have a schofield?
lardburger1 11 months ago
i want one, but in NY you need a pistol permit, which i dont have
gunmum123 11 months ago
@gunmum123 You need a permit in NY only if you plan on shooting the gun. You can buy a cap & ball gun without a permit. But once you purchase the powder, balls, etc., you must put the gun on a permit.
whitethronebooks 11 months ago
Whenever I would fire mine I'd take a piece of paper that was coated in bore butter and place that between the powder and the ball. It created a really nice, tight, chamber and lubed the barrel very well. Also my Remington handeled .454 rounds excellently. It was a good first cap and ball revolver. I wish I still had it.
Igrima91 11 months ago
I don't think this .44 is technically a .45 like he said. You would have to measure the I.D. of the bore to tell for sure, but you start out with an oversize ball and it squeezes down smaller when you press it into the cylinder.
chiefcharlie60 11 months ago
Does this gun have a rifled barrel or smooth bore?