Greg Koukl - Why does God allow evil and suffering?

[TheSurfurDude]

U cant truely trust the bible because man over 2000 years have altered but god allows what happens on earth to happen because man is arrogant enough to think we dont need god and that he isnt real i just pray to god every night to help me live an enjoyable life and tell him that i havent lost my faith in him and that those who think life is what can only see or calculate only wonder why we're here not to dissprove him there have been 5 mass extintions since life has been on earth 0 since humans

[creamiercorn]

In the beginning, we lost our direct connection with God via the serpent in the garden. That is why He dosent just show up to save you in the flesh. Because of sin, we would die if he were to come. If it wasnt for our disobedience, there wouldnt be rape, murder, slavery or even death. This is our punishment, and now we have to serve Him untill death without His presence. Yes, a shame but the truth. SEEK THE TRUTH! just read the Bible and it will speak to you. it is the only link to Him AT ALL!

[jagg1951]

@1aaronaaron1

Ohh you want a good answer to the problem of evil.

I think Paul says it all in Romans 7. You simply live by the spirit of goodness and do not do evil. Follow the golden rule. Love one another. Care about others. Do not be selfish. If everyone does that the problem of evil will cease to exist.

[jagg1951]

Use your common sense...How can we be 'free' unless we have a "choice" to do wrong and of course as a consequence suffer.

And who brought sin into the world?Adam who CHOSE to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.The original sin. To disobey Gods advice asillustrated inthe ten commandments and synthesized into the 2 commandments Jesus said if followed would fulfill ALL the lawsof Moses .simply put l ive by the golden rule.

love god above all else, love yuor neighbor as yourself

[lacontrabasse]

Greg Koukl gives the classic cop-out answer to the killer question of the Problem of Suffering. "I know it looks like God is a psychopath, but hey, God sees the big picture; He knows best. Who are we to question Him?"

For a more plausible reason for the existence of suffering, and for an account of your place in the Universe and the meaning of your life, see the YouTube video 'God says sorry'.

[StrifeBlood]

@jOWNZin22 Haha, I LOVE that answer. If you owned a bunch of wild and untamed animals like lions, leopards, rhinos, etc. etc. and you released them and sit there and let them kill people without you trying to stop them, you're exactly like the Christian god. "God" is the puppet-master of the devil. "He" allows the devil to carry on when he could easily get rid of him, but he doesn't, so he's responsible. Despite this, you still believe your god is "all-loving".

[jagg1951]

@StrifeBlood

dont blame god for what people do of their own free will. without free will we would not be people we would be robots or puppets or slaves who could only do what god allowed.

we are the ones to "allow" the devil to influence us . the devil did not force adam to eat, he 'tempted' him just as he tempted Jesus in the wilderness, he was in always tempted as we are,,,, we do NOT have to give in and do the evil satan suggestes "Just Say No"

like children we must learn from mistakes

[StrifeBlood]

@jagg1951 Well let's see. 1) God is responsible for creating people 2) God can apparently stop people but he's too much of a douche ...so I say it's his fault for not intervening. He sure intervened when the world was full of "wicked people" besides Noah by commit a mass genocide. And God can stop all of that, but he's either an asshole or non-existent based on the "all-just" thing.

[jagg1951]

@StrifeBlood

You talk as if god was a human. god is the creator of the universe. it is like saying you are an evil person if you have a dream and people are killed in it. if you have a dream where a world full of people drown in a great flood, or when a comet hits the planet.

try thinking of yourself as energy, photons.. that is all you really are you do not exist as a human you just think you do. you are just an idea in the mind of god ... like your dream characters are to you.

[StrifeBlood]

@jagg1951 Cool story bro. Believe your fairy tales. Waste your time sucking his dick so you'll have a utopia for an afterlife. Meanwhile, I'll be enjoying this life.

[jagg1951]

@StrifeBlood

There is no 'afterlife' there is only now and now is all one should be concerned with. Now is the accepted time because now is all you have. So you are quite right to enjoy this life now. The question is what makes this life MOST enjoyable.God is the spirit that inspires us to act with love toward our fellow man in truth and righteousness according to the golden rule which is the source of such enjoyment IMHO.

[StrifeBlood]

@jagg1951 Nope. You can be a perfectly caring, loving human being without worshiping a being who has no proof besides a book that is full of lies. Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are two examples for you. And before you say you didn't mean that you can't be good without "God", you just stated "God is the spirit..." for everyone. And good bye, rationality obviously isn't your forte. 

[jagg1951]

@StrifeBlood

if you are gonna talk about god, shouldnt you do just a little research. Even the bible says "The Spirit of God" and "God is a Spirit" not a being. Of course if you cannot understand what a spirit is. Then you obviously can't relate to people in a spirit of love and kindness can you. Why dont you try making that spirit your God. Then you might understand who and what god really is.

[jagg1951]

@StrifeBlood

understanding is not your forte.

would you not say that a "caring loving human being" is acting in a spirit of "righteousness" god is the spirit of righteousness, not the christian god, not the jewish god, not the indian or muslim god, the ONE GOD od all of creation the one god that tells all obey the golden rule, the golden rule that is common to ALL mankind who understand the spirit of truth and righteousness and choose to obey it.

[StrifeBlood]

@jagg1951 You can't understand that all of that is a lie to get your money and make important religious people powerful. That's all religion was. An easy tool to obtain power. I understand critical thinking might be difficult for you, but we all have to do it sometime or another.

[jagg1951]

@StrifeBlood

That may be what religion is, but Jesus did not teach religion. How much power did Jesus "obtain"?

Jesus was all about giving us power as he always taught "It shall be done as YOU believe" and "according to YOUR faith". So tell me how far from your perception of the truth is that? Do you not believe we are responsible for our own destiny? Please try and use "critical thinking" when you read the teachings attributed to the character Jesus. Tell me of the concepts he presents

[Mystikalman80]

He doesn't even answer the question

[Sugabear1976]

There are principles. God set things in order & He will not break them. Ex- GRAVITY...now God could change the rule of gravity but it's already been set in order. Now if u jump off a building 9 X out of 10 ull fall to the ground. Actions=consequences. But thank God for grace, instead of u dieing (like u could've) God'll step in & allow u 2 walk away with a bruise instead of death...grace/mercy, THANK GOD 4 JESUS!

[MrAnagern]

The first question posed by Greg is the biggest problem of this video. It already assumes power to a god, a deity, something no human being has empirical evidence for. Therefore, he must resort to faith in order to believe in the existence of god, therefore, he is conceding his rational facilities to a thing he can not ever prove. He doesn't even think to question the very nature of the Christian god, considering he is "looking at all the evidence". Even the scriptures beget an otherwise evilgod

[ThomasWinkworth]

@jOWNZin22 God does allow pain and suffering...

[Unrealll6666]

I dunno but it's to late for me... my mind is made up... Peaceful mass suicide of all humans on Earth.

[Realityseekerman]

We look at the Scriptures??? and gather 100 Christians together and they cannot agree on the basics.. is the Pope his representative on earth? Can priests forgive sins? is the bread and wine really flesh and blood? Are bible stories real or literal? These questions have caused Christians to fight and kill each other for centuries using the most horrible means of torture imaginable. Now assuming that both Catholic and Protestants are of good faith why did not Christ make these matter clearer?

[Killer0fTheSun]

@Strefanash

This line of thinking is the reason why christianity is a cancer upon the world.

[stagesix6]

@Strefanash you are switching the subject...

[actionjackson864]

@Strefanash

no it doesnt bc Im not evil...who r YOU to JUDGE? ru god?!  alas, u r not.

[Hufflewaffle]

To advocate this kind of infantile passive subservience given the incredible responsibility of adult human consciousness, is immoral to say the least.

Individual and collective consciousness define what is evil and unconscious imagination constructs myths for dealing with it.

Myths require active participation, not simply passive obedience as is being taught here. Great for children but not for adults.

[philster61]

Why does God allow evil?. Because he invented it. Read the bible. God thrives upon it.

[aplaceforme]

@woyay very interesting insite and your right he does challenge our commitment to him. I think he wants to see who really loves him and who doesn't we are made in His image but I don't think a wife would say, "Go ahead and go out with that women and if you don't have sex with her and leave me for her than you truely love me. "

[atrasz]

Complete babble.

[jn316sc]

Lame argument. We MUST decide based on our own faculties whether God is good based on our experiences and observations of the different types of evil so we can honestly say whether we can trust God. If our instincts tell us "something is wrong" then we cannot truly and honestly and fully trust God. There are better arguments than this. For example, God intentionally created and arranged for evil of all manner to exist so people would learn that God must be accepted as Lord. No more space.

[l337pwnage]

Simple answer, god is evil.

[Imaginefree69]

"I also will laugh at your calamity;

I will mock when your fear cometh" Says YHVH

Proverbs 1:26

[clipsryan]

This is why religion is dangerous. This man is letting an invisible space God determine what things to be seen as evil or just God's confusing and fucked up plan. In that case I'd have to say that most people are more moral than God, thus disproving the purpose/existence of God. You can't justify letting Priests abuse children under his own religion in any way.

[bballcardcollector09]

all i know is that when i do things based on my own power i don't feel peace inside but when i ask for god's guidance i feel confidence and peace.

[clipsryan]

If you need to ask a God for guidance, your sheep/slave and no slave has ever known peace while being a slave. I feel self respect and self reliance knowing that the good deeds I do are based on my respect for humanity, not some jealous God that let's truly bad things happen more than once.

[koolwings]

Do you believe in Heaven and Hell?

[clipsryan]

I use to but not anymore. I don't see the evidence nor purpose for one.

[TheGillyweed]

have u never heard of the rat race. dsd

[rocksoli4]

A dominant man without a belief in God is the most dangerous kind of all because for him to kill or dominate is easy. He believes its survival of the fittest so he can do as he likes and theres no come back. Atheism is a dangerous foundation to all forms of peace and harmony in this world

[DSD1v57BG32]

Not even close.

[Criticallyincorrect]

then why are atheist countries the most peaceful? And why are Muslim and Christian nations some of the most violent?

[clipsryan]

Thank you. That seems to be the achilles heel that never gets a logical answer. Did he say "What Jesus says about God." They can't even remember that he is/was (supposedly) God?

[rocksoli4]

In John 1st chapter it says who Jesus is He is known as the Word . It says The word was with God and the word was God. Through Him everything was made that was made He is the Creator of heaven and earth and all of us human being. All Christians would gladly bow and worship (means to draw near to kiss) Jesus. He wont step in yet. Hes waiting for us human beings to see that without Him and the power of love and forgiveness, the world will only get worse.

[DSD1v57BG32]

Survival of the fittest does not mean that learn your evolution.

[rocksoli4]

God doesnt need our praise but he chose to create us and share eternity with him. He is our creator why wouldnt we want to sing to him praise him for a job well done on the universe, on us on the diversity of the human race on the grandeur of the mountains. Have you ever had your breath taken away while watching a winter sunset. Have you ever given thanks to The Big Bang. It just doesnt do it.

[clipsryan]

Why didn't he just do that in the first damn place instead of putting people through hell on earth for his sick entertainment? The Big Bang isn't a jealous, pointless God. Beauty is an opinion and in no way proves God. God given life to babies born into drugs and desease isn't beautiful, 9/11 wasn't beautiful either but he allowed it to happen.

[rocksoli4]

Whod be complaining then you couldnt even think anything lustful. No one can change anyone by fear. God cannot show up because he wants us to know him, know that he made us and out of the abundance of his blessings maybe we might come to love and respect him.

[rocksoli4]

Where does God step in. A man is in a pub having a drink he has one too many, jumps into his car and drives down the road. God zaps him because he's heading for a little old lady and may kill her. Nice job Lord, as soon as anyone steps out of line zap 'em. Some kid in a play ground decides to bully another kid who wears glasses God appears like superman scares the bully. If God shows up to sort everything out wed be terrified of him. Our freewill would be redundant.

[doseiaisha]

ugh, ive been trying to think that God knows what hes doing...but its really hard with all this crap going on

ok, so God allows men to do what they want because he gave us free will. but can God really watch from above and see that little kid get kidnapped? or that nice couple get mugged or murdered?? i mean, what is he so busy doing right now??? -_- i want to be a good chrsitian, i just need someone to help me out. someone who can talk back to me..

[141cjs]

Hi doseiasha.

It is absolutely awful to see all the suffering and evil in the world. It makes us shout out 'there's something wrong!'... and there is something wrong! The world is not supposed to be like this. When God made the world it was perfect and free from pain. When Adam and Eve disobeyed God in the garden of Eden, (whether you believe this is literal or not), humans chose evil over good, and the whole world came under God's judgement (as he warned).

[141cjs]

Evil and suffering entered the world. But because God is so good and loves the world so much, he came in Jesus to give us a way back to him and a way back to a world free from evil and suffering. He promises that one day he will make everything right.... he will judge the world and punish all the injustice that has happened. But he will also make a new heaven and a new earth without evil or pain. We are between worlds - Eden and the new Creation, which is why everything is so messed up....

[141cjs]

....we are supposed to say 'this is not right' because it is how God has made us - and he's made us that way to lead us to him. He sees the evil that happens but he doesn't forget it or ignore it - one day he will judge it. But because of Jesus there is also forgiveness for anyone who sincerely seeks it - otherwise we would all come under his judgement. I know this is a bit jumbled(!) but I hope it helps in some way. Feel free to message me - I can't work out how to send a private message!

[hovsec]

u know, the real answer is that God doesnt exist, at least as far as we know and he is just an imaginary friend, now many theists will look negatively at what i said, but why would it be a bad thing that god doesnt exist? because then theres no life after death? because u feel unprotected? because ur life doesnt make sense anymore? now all those things r just in ur mind, u can live a happy life without god, u just have to realize that u can, think of why u believe in god and u will find answers

[doseiaisha]

no hovsec, ur not seeing the main reason i try to have faith in God.

its NOT just becuz there wouldnt be life after death. not just becuz i'd feel unprotected. not just becuz life wouldnt make sense.

the reason i try to have faith in god is becuz he does exist, and he did create the world, and he did give me a good life.

and if he did all those things for me, the least i can do is give him benefit of the doubt!

[guitaro5000]

Think of how a shark would eat you in a second without even considering God.

[guitaro5000]

Also think of how you most likely ate meat today. To the creature you ate, you and your kind are evil. BUt you don't even think twice about it. One creatures loss (their life) is simply your gain (one meal for you). It's the same way kidnappers and muggers think, except they don't always kill.

[jfinite]

So, because you can't understand why an omnipotent, all-good, all-loving being would allow things we commonly call 'evil' to take place, you're going to sit back and just believe that all of that is taking place for some good reason and that your god is still good? Wow.

[sentientist]

1:13

God has our best interests in view????

wow, so children starve to death and kangaroos die of thirst during droughts because god is looking out for me....never heard this one before

[beethovensheir1234]

#1 on what basis do you assume that God can not affect creation.

#2 Goodness is relative to God. Without God, we have no authority to say what is good or not, without appealing to either personal preference or societal norms.

#3 if there is no ultimate standard of good then who are you to say starvation is wrong.

#4 since there is a God obviously he is Causing/allowing evil for the ultimate good, which we as fallen creatures can not understand.

[haydenstag]

I respectfully disagree. I would reject the assumption that someone would come to the conclusion that God is good based upon the Christian Bible, there are many horrific acts attributed to God. I'm trying to really understand and not be snide.

I don't feel this really addresses the issue. God is in a position to idly sit by and watch children die of starvation because he can see a larger picture?

I just feel like if he has the ability to prevent or stop suffering & doesn't, he is immoral.

[beethovensheir1234]

I do see where your coming from...what you need to realize though is that, just because you feel that God is unjust does not make it so...The reason for bad things happening is that Man sins alot...So me seeing the greatness of man's sin would approach the issue from a totally different perspective. If we have violated the law of an all powerful God and rejected him and spit in his face, why would he let anything good happen to us?

[ZooropaDweller]

I've found only one satisfying, wise answer for this question.

A link for that good article is in my account's info.

[Luffy55555]

Thank you for this. God bless you.