enshin karate, sabaki challenge 1999, Suzuki vs Izuka

[00Jackacid]

damn i wish there were face punches

[TheFudokan]

very very good speed and power...they are great karatekas, but suzuki sensei was better!!!

[anonymousbecause]

Hmmm i wish i saw more sabaki.

[blugularis]

@anonymousbecause Sabaki technique is more difficult to implement than it seems in practice, Most fighrters can resist, if they are any good.

[gonorrhoeheliumgirl]

To be frank: This is a boring, unspectacular fight, and the referee is too actice.

And all those "osu!" chanters here, wonderful - Pol Pot or Hitler would have loved you: "Kill this one!" - "Osu!"

[Kyousuke687]

lol, your funny.

[blugularis]

@gonorrhoeheliumgirl you have gonorrhoea? and breath helium?

Osu has a lot more meaning that Hitler would ever understand.

[QuanYin71]

Osu ! good vid !

[Dobbersky]

Osu!!!!

Good Clip, Respectfully Enshin is an Ashihara Karate Offshot if we look at the correct lineage. Kancho Ninomiya was one of Kancho Ashihara's top students.

To me the ethos is Enshin and Ashihara karateka are like father and son and Kyokushin is the Grandfather

OSU!!!!

[kolsyrade]

To me its all the same family. I tend to call everything a kyokushin offshot when talking to "outsiders", because kyokushin is more well known, and it makes it easier for people not already familliar with knockdown karate styles and lineages to know what it is about.

In this case however, I did say that the enshin founder spent time as #2 in ashihara karate after leaving kyokushin -where he first became a famous.

But its all in the same "family", and the differences is really not that big.

[blugularis]

@kolsyrade actually, he became famous in Kyokushin at about the age of 18 or 19 when he entered his first open (the first open) and took third place.  quite an accomplishment, he later went on to take first place in kyokushin kai open, then Ashihara broke w/Oyama, and later Ninomiya broke w/Ashihara, which is a shame, in some respects, as after the death of Ashihara, Ninomiya would have been the head student and could have taken over, more collaboration in the schools, less division.

[blugularis]

@Dobbersky I would say that Ninomiya was his top student, bar none! started placing in the tops in Kyokushin before he turned twenty. Had he stayed not broken w/ Ashihara, I think that he would now be the head of the org. and that branch of Ashihara would be a lot stronger! in my humble opinion, osu!

[seatonmadness]

@Dobbersky Osu!

[KankuPitbull]

Nice style, bt can someone tell me why this fighters don't used punches, just kick and grap? OSU!

[itisme400]

i must clarify our art is about walking away/turn cheek as the fist weapon

[itisme400]

it seem more about "power take2(physical), not about quickest disposition......am i wrong?>? i study Tetsudo/Goyararu and it seems like a much better practice than slapping unitl you can knee you opponent. i was under the impression that you had to use absolute the most minimal amount of energy expenditure to disable and proceed...saying that we dont have comps like this just kata's...please shed some light!??!

[kolsyrade]

Using the minimal amount of energy to disable the opponent is nice... In theory.

But people who rely on that theory tend to get knocked out very early in full-contact/knockdown competitions.

And those punches are not "slapping". Most people not used to full contact would go down quickly from them. They are trying to "slap" away the guard of their opponent though.

[itisme400]

hi, i/we dont "rely" on such "theories", it is a practice formed over hundreds of years and is proven to be affective at controlling a situation/person. i'm being condoscending to your art it just seems counter productive from my point view. i would personally not let you get withing 4ft(extended leg distance) of me. again though, we dont feel need for extravaganza. good luck with it all though friend

[kolsyrade]

And good luck to you, should you ever need to use your techniques against a resisting opponent instead of a helpful training partner.

[Bjjownsu10]

Is the clinch allowed in enshin?

[kolsyrade]

not full thai clinch with both hand encircling the opponents head. Go to shidokan karate if you want that in knockdown karate.

In enshin you must grab the opponents head with both hands on the same side -"hooking" it when you pull it down.

[lkjdf65]

Nice Fight

I like it much 5/5

[musokai3]

All I'm saying is that Sabaki, kyokushin, and all derivitives of these styles that continue to in non-face punch training have a major disadvantage. I know all about UFC. Their good fighters will beat the Sabaki fighters. But karate has an advantage with multiple attackers.

The whole point of my original post was that face punch TRAINING is essential in any Karate school. Once you start to do that you will find that many of the non face punch skills in sabaki do not work.

[Muay711]

its ture that in kyokushin and other karate styles that have the same knock-down rules are not doing much techniques to the head. we have them but do not train them so much. but thats not the point. more important then any "realistic" martial art is the fighting spirit and spiritual growing behind the art. beside this, most kyokushin fighters i know box aswell. beside this...mma is still a sport with rules. pretty complete with stand up and ground fighting but still missing many techniques. OSU!

[brenxxx]

I agree! I am a kyokushin & enshin karateka, but we also do kickboxing in the club, which by the way derived from karate and we do head punches aswell. MMA rules are more compatible for grapplers.

[maofas]

It's dumb to assume people of this level don't ever train with gloves + face punches. Full-contact bareknuckle is a tradition they want to keep and .001% of martial artists world would be willing to do that with face punches.

[crackermustgo]

You never fight your sensei!!!

[NinjaTyler007]

I agree.

[urniurl]

We also practice a contact style so we are very used to being hit in the body. I think an Enshin student would hold their own as well in a street fight.

[blugularis]

Only if they train with head gear and face punch, it is good for street training, but limited in not allowing the face punch, as my Sensei (Sandan under Joko) said, "you fight the way you train," no train for face punch a boxer with six months can catch your jaw and knock your ass out, even with good training.

[guitarninja83]

So when a boxer knocks out another boxer it must be because he doesnt train face punches? The thought works both ways, training face punches doesnt make your chin any stronger and not training them doesnt make your chin weaker... percussive knockouts excluded, its the nerve being struck that knocks you out.

[urniurl]

We do a lot of punching drills as well as combination kicking, punching and grappling at Enshin training. We are also prepared for the reality of street defence situations and are instructed in elbow strikes and punches to the head area though of course we don't train in them. In reality a street fight gets close in very quickly after the first few punches and a few basic tripping, throwing and kneeing techniques would be useful.

[musokai3]

When K1 first started under Sado Karate they realized very quickly that you can't eliminate face punches from a fight like kyokushin has been doing in bare knuckle fights. when they did bring it on, their fighter were doing poorly. Once they started to train hard with a combination of face punch and kicking they started to win fights.

[Shahabsito]

Well, 1:53 .. Suzuki attacks the opponent's leg directly, seems the jodge did not see it.

If you pause the kick, you'll see it landed exactly on the knee.

Really fast, for the first time that I saw it, I thought it was a Mumugery, but .... Nice job ;)

[akextream]

Osu!! the grabs make the fight more exiting, and the way of escaping from thim,, its better to not limit it,,.. Osu to u all

Peace

[Shahabsito]

Yeah, agreed.

What makes Enshin such a powerful style is the grabs and the sabakies.

These are really usefull, even in a real street fight (As self-defence)

OSU

[musokai3]

Do you really think you can get that close tosomeone in a real streetfight. Or grab him like that. It would end up on the ground in two seconds.

These grabbing techniques work in sabaki tournaments, in the street you need much more.

[Shahabsito]

Enshin is a mix of punch, kick and grab.

Its a complete style, you can use different technics in different situations.

and yes, if you look at real street fights, most of them are very close distance fights and instead of that you get close to your opponent, they will get close to you.

[musokai3]

Your dreaming if you think you can use sabaki in a real street fight. There is no gi to grab. AND people fight the way they train. that means that if you don't train for face punch you don't know how to use it properly.

sabaki anticipates the opponents punches and kicks. however, in a real fight it just does not go that way.

you can beat some people sometimes but the good fighters you will have a real hard time with.

[Shahabsito]

About Gis I have to tell you that Enshin is not just HICKI technics, there are also throws (Nage technics ) which just requires oppenent's hand, leg, neck etc. Not any clothe. as for example, for Ora nage, there is no need to grab Gi.

[Shahabsito]

As for punches in face.

dodging high punches are as easy as low punches. and as for attack, there is no need to puch in face all the time. a good suki can knock out a herculess if perfumes in it's time.

But it does not mean that a fighter is invincible. there are always a powerfuller person.

For more info watch MIKE NINOMIYA's Videos

[musokai3]

watch the video on this site. see how they get real close, their hands are touching. That distance is face punch distance. In the real world if you get that close to someone, you get punched in the head. Just ask any boxer. However, enshin does not train for this. You train to fight in a tournament. A tournament made up of MOSTLY enshin fighters, fighting enshin rules. No face punch. THE RULE IS SIMPLE, YOU FIGHT THE WAY YOU TRAIN. NO FACE PUNCH MEANS YOU SUCK AT IT.

[blugularis]

"you fight the way you train," Johny Rochette said that thirty years ago, and he trained under Joko Ninomiya, you are exactly right, no face punch, get knocked out! Osu!

[musokai3]

Based on this comment, you do not know what a real fight is. You are brainwashed. Go to a boxing gym or a thai gym. Go to a daido juku dojo if there is one in your area. Go to a mixed martial arts gym. Then your eyes will be wide open.

Enshin is a good style. Just like kyokushin or Sado. But their biggest weakness is the lack of face punch. Once you start doing face punch you will see that 70 to 90 % of all the enshin grabs and pulls or even throws will not work.

[Shahabsito]

As you have seen Azuma's daido style, you'll see grabbing is really useful. with a big difference.

In daido after performing a throw, we work on tatemi kumiwasa but in Enshin we don't bend down and use punch or kick after the opponent is fell.

[musokai3]

You don't get it.

[Shahabsito]

I got you already.

I am agree that Daido is a powerful style, so as Muay Thai. and I know by punches comming to your face, its much harder to grapple. But it's not impossible. Do you know UFC? knockless-G punches into face. but grapple is a big part of it. And about boxing. Ya' punches are good, but do they can get hit a Gedan mawashi geri more than twice?

tHOUSANDS OF THEM ARE WEAK ON THEIR LEGS

[Shahabsito]

^, Caps was on.

-----------------

IN Muay Thai, they grab necks to perfume knees to body or head. Never mind it. It's useless.

You can try an exprienced Enshinkai and force him to defende himself in street and see his re-actions, yourself.

[blugularis]

Are you Musokai style? Musokai is (partially) based on Kyokushin-kai and the founder Arakiki, studied under Ninomiya, while under Ashihara, who was under Oyama.

[blugularis]

musokai, came from enshin, kiyoshi studied from ninoymiya

[MononofuBlood]

Yeah very good fight. And I have to agree with kolsyrade the grabbing does make the fight a little sketchy; instead of punching they tend to go in and grab. They should limit the grabbing to 2-4 secs. But still great fight, thanks for posting it.

Osu

[BelguteiFly]

it is limited to 3 seconds

[SenseiMazz]

wow - excellent fight. To me Suzuki should have won, but very close indeed