Extra Credits: Bad Writing

[benwubbleyou]

I'm not saying that I just spent roughly an hour and a half watching your videos, but I spent an hour and a half watching your videos...

[ProkoLokor]

There are a few games with good writing and bad story. Like Mass Effect 2.

[Xanatos712]

Crysis 2 is a good example of bad writing. Control is always wrenched away from the player during cutscenes and 'cinematic' moments and the other characters don't talk TO the player so much as talk AT them. Come to think of it, as a player I didn't feel like I was important to the game's story whatsoever. At the end of the day it was really the suit that mattered, not the person controlling it.

[Evanhalf2]

YES!! ESTRADASPHERE!!

[Bradjg1978]

I'm sorry but when he said how hard is it to find a script writer. I'm thinking of all the bad movies, plays, and other stuff out there. It's not easy to find a good writer period. Yeah, I know it's about how complicated games are verse movies/TV.

[thebigJ1er]

Maybe you could put the date in the title? Several of the episodes deal with more or less current events, so it would help.

At least number them, so new viewers can keep track, or people who missed several in the middle (like me) can keep track.

[schindelerium]

Great analysis, but... one little bit of hypocrisy. When talking about Silent Hill, you said that they did a great job demonstrating the weakness of the main character... except, you said, the most recent ones. But Shattered Memories, the newest one, did this better than any other, by not allowing you any weapons and forcing you to run and hide. Hell, you even had a picture of it. I understand you're more talking about SH 4 and 5, but still. Is it because it's a sort-of-remake? I'm curious.

[iphillip1]

I thought part of your break-up with Escapist is that they got to keep your catalog?

[Zzeke5]

they -were- fake laughing. I don't really understand what could have ever made anyone think they weren't.

[rubino83]

@Zzeke5 Yeah, it's pretty obvious for anyone watching the scene. Unfortunately, it appears most people were so busy yelling "JAPANESEVOICEBETTER JAPANESEVOICEBETTER" over the cutscene, they drowned out the dialogue.

[ellellwright]

@ExtraCreditz I was just wondering, if game writing is so important, why aren't movie based games better? I've played some HORRIBLE ones. Love this ep. Keep up the good work guys =)

[djaevlenselv]

@ellellwright

I assume it's for the same reason that book based movies are rarely as good as the book. Just like writing a book is different from writing a film, writing a film is different from writing a book, and unless you understand the difference between the mediums the translation can easily go wrong.

[MarikBentusi]

I was thinking about this situation where the writers come in late and have to write around stuff. I don't play D&D, but I'm in contact with a couple of Dungeon Masters that constantly have to adapt to the actions of their players and plan ahead for all kinds of shit their players may pull. They also very often have a very deep lore pool to spontaneously pull from.

Sounds like the perfect writer for a game, even in an unfortunate constrained situation.

[DynaFF]

Excellent, as always.

[NotRelatedToBob]

2:52 Cthulhu saves the world?

[SilliiBoo]

I'd love to see an episode on HOW TO write for video games. I've been interested in that for a long time, but nothing I've found on the internet is entirely helpful. A little on format, but not much on the mindset or how to get into the business as a writer exclusively.

[Dixavd]

I rewatched this one because it had Tidus as the thumbnail - FFX is my favourite game of all time, just sayin'. Although I won't say the voice acting in that game is fantastic - the voice actor of Tidus was really good - changing tone perfectly as he grew through the game - sad no one gives them credit becaus eof one scene.

Liked the video though.

[fishfishfish912]

@Dixavd eh the voice acting isn't bad to be fair and I cant get that one bad scene being so attack I thought they were meant to be fake laughing

[SwobyJ]

@Dixavd FFX's structure is pretty compelling. It's major scenes are mostly hits, but.. it's smaller scenes are mostly misses - full of cheese, cultural (Jap/Western) mistranslation, and very bad English dubbing (Yuna fit the role, but the actress was clearly inexperienced. Tidus' actor is horrible imo).

[ListenSilently]

For the LAST FUCKING TIME. Phoenix downs revive KO status, not fucking dead status.

[fishfishfish912]

@ListenSilently so...so that big monster never killed any of my guys he just knocked them out...see now the whole games seems kinda silly no monster ever killed any of my guys he just knocked them out...huh...

[Agrognomic]

@ListenSilently Yeah, because be eaten by a mechanical dragon is K.O, but a backstab is dead

[ListenSilently]

@Agrognomic It's what the description says. "Revives KO'd status"

[davideshafer]

Please try posting more on YouTube.

[Aussie27Legend]

Whoa this is a flashback o_o

[Kockafalva]

u can be sure to get a fav+like from me:)

[fauxman]

yay

[Dinker27]

How can we as future writers/staff help to prevent it? I mean, other than go to school and study it?

[Tronixciort]

I actually kind of liked the writing in Shadow of Memories!

While the more "odd" lines in the game weren't exactly what you'd call good by the norm, it fit well with the highly surreal feel of the game, and gave it it's own personality. I still understand why some people dislike it, but it still remains one of my favourites.

For bad writing, check out Damnation. That thing is a real gem when it comes to the script.

[ZormelTV]

<3



[ShadowWolfRising]

where can i contact them?

i got a question i'd like to ask.

[Soulsphere001]

@ShadowWolfRising

Don't they always provide their Email addresses at the end of each video?

[jayofthe400]

First off, I need to say this, at this point in time, video games are beating the shit out of movies anymore, I mean, look at this entire gen, so many classics are amazing. Now look at movies... it is literally like the movie industry traded places with 1980's video games these days. Video games are just plain better anymore

Also, when doing FF7 and phenoix downs, all those items actually do is basically defib your ally, that is why they ALWAYS go barely a quarter of your health when revived.

[droppingpenny]

I would say that it goes too far, to say that the game mechanics should reinforce the narrative. i would rather argue that the mechanics reinforce the world the game creates for the player that as it is, is independent form the narrative. The narrative itself, as I feel should be at least partially created through playing the game by the player himself and the only parts that should require writing should only be the parts that deliver the worlds history and helpful information for the player.

[piratesephiroth]

yep post this shit on youtube

[poteatr]

Can we please have episodes avaible via itunes? I watch most of your episodes on my phone the first time, and love showing them to co-workers at breaks and lunch - it's a great way to break the monotony at work. the ability to download and have all of them available at a moment's notice would be invaluable when discussing games with my friends at work - and discuss some of the important topics you have covered in the past.

[Bloodyidit]

these two scenes were meant to give you the feeling that something was off kilter about the truth of the Calm journey.

[Bloodyidit]

the thing about the infamous HAHAHATIDUS scene is that it was intentional and is just as awkward in the japanese version.

it seems like bad writing, but it actually hints at the reality of the journey.

and it is not the only time, for example, after you complete Djose temple, the next day everyone is laughing and messing with yuna, while narrator Tidus note that he was the only one truely laughing at the jokes and hints at a dark truth of the the journey.

you were meant to feel awkward.

[Wyrdwad]

Whoawhoawhoa, was that a screenshot from SHADOW OF DESTINY I saw... accompanied by monologuing about bad writing in games?! Shadow of Destiny, one of the most well-written and fascinating games on the PS2 -- one of my personal favorites of the entire console generation, criminally underrated despite its extraordinarily engaging plot, characters and atmosphere?!

...Just checking. (:

[nickst0ne]

Finally, Extra Credits ! You're uploading to youtube ! I've been wondering for a long time why you were sticking to other platforms.

All your episodes are belong to us ! For great justice !

[OurVersions]

Why are the D's reversed at 5:53 for the developers?

[Mijeme123g]

My Phoenix Downs are worthless now

[WestPictures]

Needs a deeper voice

[navyman4]

I actually use this as study material. I'm a 38yr old Electrical Engineer who's been wishing to get into USC school for media arts. One day I want to write three of these movies I've been toying with. The video game creation process is parallel to it.

You guys are geniouses and should be teaching school on gaming if not already!!!!

[DJThisGuy]

To all those asking about the voice acting episode, Daniel mentioned on a live stream it's all about getting them together and that's just a daunting task in itself as anybody in the VA community can attest to.

[Cador2004]

Could you please number the episodes to prevent confusion?

[blazearmoru]

Allison's drawings are really good... 

[Gyounen]

I remember this episode.. for a second I thought it was just another episode about the subject, and that there was double episode this week *disappointed face*.

[Banner771]

For god's sake... does anyone even read the forums they set up? They said they are going to do the voice acting episode after they contact someone and they sort it out. Please chill out people, it is not rocket science. Although I'm sure the industry is thinking it is...

[amack308]

@Banner771 "Its not Rocket Surgery" FTFY

[Nickompoop]

Extra Credits: Y U NO MAKE VOICE ACTING EPISODE?!

[ShootStyleZombie]

wow, you guys are right, Allison's art does get misrepresented on this show, holy shit

also, I notice there hasn't been a Voice Acting episode, despite mention of it here,

[TwilightWarrior92]

Voice Acting Episode. Where is it?

[trumpeter811]

the development team should also be aware the D's on their chest are on backwards

[Coruptin]

Huzzah! I've been looking for some of these old episodes. Good to know they'll be reliably gathered one location again.

[Shaderaygun]

Good episode. I always liked games that tell stories while you are still playing it rather than in cut scenes. Also loved the DoW 2 shout out. Love that game.

[ZeRedSpy]

I can't seem to load this one, that's sad.

[RabidFlaminChipmunks]

So Extra Credits, whatever happened to that voice acting episode? Kind of like to see it.

[FatherTime89]

@RabidFlaminChipmunks They said they wanted to get an actual voice actor on board to help them with it.

[TcpfMs]

@FatherTime89 and in the recent Q&A they said they will contact him again im hoping its Robert Clotworthy or Neil kaplan :D

[dizitei]

@RabidFlaminChipmunks they maybe would need voice actor to help them make the episode. (this is only speculation)

[TcpfMs]

Please read the description before posting everyone :D

[Nekreg]

@TcpfMs How about checking the uploader comments because the description says nothing about it.

[GameSlayer91]

oh, so this is why about a week ago this video was uploaded and deleted about 1min after :P, love you guys

[Undeadspiral]

punished for trying to watch a video that is to new... but wait it's an old one. But its to new to watch!

[ExtraCreditz]

We're going to start distributing our back catalog of episodes in more places over the next few months. Penny Arcade TV will still have exclusivity on the newest episodes, but you'll start seeing the classic ones on Youtube, Blip and numerous others. Enjoy!

[255ad]

@ExtraCreditz what was that video where you talk about that company who tried to make the game about the real recent battle in the middle east but got stopped because everybody assumed it would be in bad taste, titled?

[TheRtoip]

@255ad

I think that was "Facing Controversy"

[255ad]

@TheRtoip thanks

[Anarchemitis]

@ExtraCreditz NOW I CAN WATCH THEM TWICE

[TekaiGuy]

video won't load for me, old episode anyway.

[supergamingmonkat]

Do you guys typically upload full episodes here?

[WeAreTeamChaos]

What is going on?



[cristianceron1989]

is this some upload (again)?

[HealyHQ]

Nice. :)

[KneeOJustice]

I remember that FFX scene very well.... my brother and I laughed for like six minutes.

Also, first, but nobody cares.