Muslim scholar = contradiction in terms. Islam is a political ideology put together by a bandit slaver, child molester and murderer. It gained all its territories through invasion and slaving. Furthermore Islam has had an unbroken slaving history for 1,400 years. Where is the progeny of the 112 million Africans trafficked to Arabia and beyond??
'The scholars have agreed'... great, so it must be true. I love this idea of God sanctioning moral relativity wherein 1000 years ago owning a slave is acceptable and today it is abhorrent and a vile abasement of humanity. I guess he knows best, eh?
Not trying to label you, nor have i any qualifications to do so. Just that i have met some muslims i would call extremists and some that i would call moderate. Anyway, i usually try not to label people, it was just a word i temporarily used. Peace.
There is however numerous accouns of slaves just being freed, masters being ENCOURAGED to free muslim slaves or marrying former slavegirls (illustrating the status of women) but no direct command of abolition. Direct ORDERS to liberate (or to buy to liberate) any slaves goes only for those particular individuals separately.
I also wonder what was so special about lunar eclipses ?
@unitasetmagus It is the understanding of Islamic law that the Prophet was sent to ultimatly end the harsh way slavery was conducted by first reforming it, then getting it out of the system of the early Muslims and then getting the ball rolling to end it. This is the attitude of major works on Islamic law and scholarship.
There is no passage i can find in there that condemns slavery or states the abolition of the whole institution, isntead i find:
"If a slave serves his Saiyid (i.e. master) sincerely and worships his Lord (Allah) perfectly, he will get a double reward." and "Goodness and comfort are for him who worships his Lord in a perfect manner and serves his master sincerely."
making it clear, that being slave is perfectly normal. So whatever your scholars say, there is no evidence of it in the qoran itself.
@unitasetmagus That is because as Muslims we do not establish Islamic law ONLY on the Quran. But on the Sunnah of the Prophet, the way of the Companions and the Fatwas of the Scholars. So therefore the attitude of the former and not the latter is where we get our evidences for the ending of slavery.
@ozzycda I'm glad that you have this liberal way of thinking. But then where in sunnah is it ORDERED to abolish slavery ??? Fatwas, i think you would say, are WEAK. And law is not eternal, it can be changed by authorities in any time (especially when "the prophet" himself does not support such a law).
"It is the understanding of Islamic law that ..." If only majority of muslims would think like you do, there wouldn't be many problems that muslim communities/countries are facing today.
@unitasetmagus This is not the liberal way of thinking but is contained by Fatwas which I am sorry are not WEAK as you have states since they are legal opinions that the majority of Sunni Muslims follow and have followed for centuries. The Fatwas I am referring to are given by scholars of Islam, which are contained in "conservative" books of fiqh. This is the majority understanding that the Prophet came to abolish slavery as can be seen by his Sunnah, companions and classical scholars.
@ozzycda So as i understand, there is no direct order of abolition in the qoran nor sunnah.
I call your view liberal because i have heard many popular islamic "preachers" who aren't familiar with these fatwas you mention.
I try to understand islam not only culturally, both historical and contemporary, and if i would convert to any religion, i would only rely on ORIGINAL TEXTS, interpretation can be contemporal (or progressive) but it still does not change the original text. cont...
@unitasetmagus ... For example: the most numerous and popular christian churches teach many things that Jesus did not. So do i rely on catholicism, evangelical protestants or the bible when talking about christianity ? I personally would go with the actual text and then listen what the bible critics have to say about the authenticity of the text. Because only then could i understand how to rebuke the "false teachings" (and also extremism). I would use the same approach to any religion. cont...
@unitasetmagus ... Because most followers of any religion (unlike maybe you and me) doesn't know much about scholars, about differen't schools or even what's the difference in between them. And the primary source of their religious sorces remain the local "preacher".
Or even how many websites are there misleading even the hardiest searcher.
Sorry for the long post, but i hope you understand where i'm coming from.
@unitasetmagus It's all good feel free to type how much you want if it helps to get your point across. I do see what your saying and I think I can agree with you if I understood you correctly. Many religious people do just follow their local preacher, Imam, and Rabbi instead of understanding the scholarship and academic aspects of their faith. Both Judaism and Islam expect a scholarly knowledge to understand one's faith and sadly many Jews and Muslims do not see that whole picture. cont.
@ozzycda cont. Same is true with other faiths as well. Again I do not see my views as one that can be simply labeled as "liberal" since all the source material I use, such as classical tafsirs, textsbooks on the science of the Quran and hadith, books of fiqh and articles on Islam are not written by "liberals" and really don't have a liberal mind. I would say my approach is scholarly and academic unlike many who just quote some verses and then think of stuff off the top of their head.
@unitasetmagus What is clear from the Sunnah is that the Prophet was reforming the way slavery was viewed and conducted and making it something much more humane instead of abusive and negative. According his companions and classical scholars the idea is that Islam came to totally get rid of slavery. So it was viewed as a process of elimination rather then instant abolition.
@ozzycda So when the Muslims routinely castrated their male slaves, this is treating them better. When their taste for sexual depravity means they need millions of women and children to murder. That's improving the lot of slaves? The Muslim idea of heaven is basically a sick orgy with lots of young women who have no purpose but sexual gratification. It's so blatant and obscene it's hard to find the words to express the disgust I have.
@ritchloui Disgust for what? This world is filled with ignorant, one-minded imbeciles like you that will never open to others religions or respect their customs. The take on "women" being in heaving is represented by the idea that you can have anything you've ever wanted to have. Same ideals that every other major religion has. You're ignorance advises you to criticize every aspect of Islam yet it relates to what you may believe in, in many ways as well.
@SirGotHops No it is not my 'ignorance' that leads me to criticize Islam and its slaving legal code Sharia. It is what I have found out about about them and their consequences. There no evidence whatsoever for the lonely old celestial dictator. It is time Mankind stopped believing in such garbage. Delusion is not a good recipe for mental health or understanding.
@ritchloui First of all, I'm not delusional. Thanks for the appraisal though! Second, you're speaking as if you've gone back in time and witnessed the blessings that were presented to the Prophet himself. You're rambling on about "dictators", please elaborate. You're generally criticizing religion itself because the same can be done for all religions if you believe having a "God" is garbage and delusional. What exactly do you feel repulsed by when it comes to the Sharia? Explain.
@SirGotHops As regards Isalmic Sharia and what I am 'repulsed' by. Well, shoving women into sacks, slaughtering or forcing the conversion of people, taxing those who refuse, institutionalising inequality so that the lesser people in effect have no voice. That's before we get to the strong, maiming, mutilating, flogging, beheadings and general horrors to be expected from a slaving ideology. That is what is repulsive about Sharia. 75% of the worlds asylum seekers are escaping Islam.
@AllGirlsWannaHaveFun I don't deny that, however according to Islamic teachings and scholars of fiqh slavery was to be totally gotten rid of with the advent of Islam in a process that was unique for the time and place. I also acknowledge that slavery and human sex trafficking are a major issue on a global level irrespective of culture, ideology and religion. I am not fully aware of the state of Africans in the Middle East and North Africa, but I will say that the vast majority of Arabs and cont.
@ozzycda cont. Africans I have met from those regions have never mentioned this topic at all, i.e. active slavery and ethnic treatment of certain people as animals. Could you provide me with book titles or scholarly articles on the subject? Thanks.
2- your facts are wrong from the beginning Islam is color blind cuz Sudan and some of the middle east countries are black or brown slavery doesn't exist in islam
@AllGirlsWannaHaveFun You got it wrong south soudan wants to eradicate not north so ... and there are blacks in my own country but even saying the word black is strange for me i can't explain to you how we look at these things !emmm it's like the color of hair or eyes we don't care about it !and Moritania is rclose to me they have some troubles but slavery isn't one !and Arabs and muslims are humans and not perfect so you have the whole right to criticize them but not Islam ^^ Peace from algeria
Can any one Keep me up to date !! What argument are they using now?? Slavery????????????? racist??????? i can't think of anything that they might misunderstand or take out of contain !Racist in Islam ?? Black people in the Usa are Converting to islam after finding out how color blind islam is
Dude I'm a black muslim and I would do anything to be the Prophet's slave. Just if some of his greatness would rub off of me. Even if the prophet removed my shackles I would put it back on. That's how much he means to me.
this is a great video and i, mashalla got the answer however what i was confronted by is that y has God not outlawed slavery in the Quran and what is meant by what ur right hand posesses. like i said earlier and totally agree that eventual extinction of slavery was only a matter of time and from my little research that slaves are only the ones who r captives from war, i may be wrong but if quran does not abolish slavery then what is to be taken by the followers, possibly i have not come across
And while Jewish presence in the Middle East long precedes that of Islam and Jews are indigenous to that region, this is not the case for Arabs in Africa.
If Arabs and their diaspora (and their Iranian allies) can argue for a Jew-free Middle East, then black Africans and those of us who are part of the diaspora can argue for an Arab-free Africa. After all, Arabs have been occupying black land and committing massive atrocities against blacks - atrocities that far surpass anything Israel has done to the Palestinians - for 1,400 years.
Baarak Allahu feek akhi, I love your videos and I'm just letting you know that you made a minor mistake, the Companion who narrated the most ahadeeth was Abu Hurayrah; `Aa'esha is the one who passed down most of the fiqh rulings.
Again I would encourage you to look at the sources I posted in the description section with regards to this topic. 4:24 is referring to the right of marriage between a owner and a servant.
Well from the way you have been throwing the word and concept around, and the fact that you admitted you have never read a Sharia Fiqh book on the subject, I would would assume you do not know the true understanding of that concept, hence you are way off.
Right, and in order to do anything with the said servants, they have to be married to the Muslim owner, and thus freed according to Sharia Law and the sources I mentioned above.
No, see this is why I am telling you to read the articles I presented to you. To my understanding if the Muslim man wants to marry the servant of course she would have to divorce her former husband, but this would all be done with the choice of the woman-servant.
If true, why doesn't Quran 4:24 say it that way instead of saying women who are married are forbidden to you ACCEPT those who are "what your right hand posesses" (slave)? Where does it say they are divorced from their husbands in 4:24?
Again look at the Fatwa that discusses this topic, in order to sleep with them they have to be married to you. Thus divorcing their husband since Islam is against Adultery. It's called common sense here.
The context of Surah 4:24 is telling Muslim men who they can or cannot marry, which includes the prohibition of not marrying married women in Surah 4:24, but then in that same verse it provides an exception to tat rule by saying, "except those whom your right hand possesses", meaning the prohibition of not marrying married women doesn't apply on those whom your right hand possesses". You can marry any married women in Islam whether slave or not, IF SHE gets DIVORCED first.
Again you have to understand how Sharia views this issue, this is why you should read the articles I presented to you. Now your not reading the FULL VERSE 4:24 does say "Thus hath Allah ordained (Prohibitions) against you: Except for these, all others are lawful, provided Ye seek(them in marriage)..." That is from the Yusuf Ali translation. So as you can see from the further context of 4:24 in order to have any relationship with a servant you must approach her in marriage.
To quote a Fatwa given my a scholar on the website Islamonline:
"But, we have to stress that this case should not be confused with that of female servants or maids, for they are free and not slaves. Therefore, it is forbidden to engage in sexual relations with them except through an Islamic marriage."
Just read the evidence I have provided, and yes I know its not Taqqiya because I unlike yourself actually understand that concept from both a Sunni and Shia point of view.
Yeah but they are servants, who may not be those "whom you right hand possesses", which are referred to female captives of war, so I don't think female SERVANTS or MAIDS would really fall into this category. Peace.
They may come from the same root, but are the words for slave and servant in Arabic the same word? If it in reference to both servants and slaves then that Fatwa from that website is not accurate, since Ibn Khatir's tafsir of Surah 4:24 mentions an incident where the companions were wondering or not to have sex with those married women, but when this revelation came they went into those married women no mention of divorce and them arriage to them.
To my understanding the same Arabic word can be used in english for slave and servant. Now you are right about Ibn Kathir however the Tafsir does not give the full story. The women who were captured as servants were married, however in the Battle of Hunayn their husbands had been killed in the battle. The companions felt guilty for wanting to have sexual relations for them because they were not technically divorced, but widowed. Thus the verse was revealed, this allowed the Muslim men, cont.
Cont. to marry these women since as you mentioned in the context of the Quranic verses it is mentioning who Muslim men can and cannot marry. This therefore allowed Muslim men to marry captives of war and take care of them. My sources for this explanation is the Encyclopedia of Islam, however I would like to point out that this Hadith recorded is not in the any authentic source. Meaning that the Hadith narrated in the Tafsir that gives this permission is not considered authentic.
Abu Said al-Khudri said: The apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) sent a military expedition to Awtas on the occasion of the battle of Hunain. They met their enemy and fought with them. They defeated them and took them captives. Some of the Companions of the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers. So Allah, the Exalted, sent down the Quranic verse, cont.
cont. And all married women (are forbidden) unto you save those (captives) whom your right hands possess. That is to say, they are lawful for them when they complete their waiting period. (Sunan of Abu Dawud, Volume 2, Number 2150)
So what does this most common wording of the Hadith found in the Tafsir of Ibn Kathir end with? " save those (captives) whom your right hands possess. That is to say, they are lawful for them when they complete their waiting period" What does this mean? cont.
It means that they had to wait the traditional waiting period for a DIVORCED or WIDOWED woman has to wait before she can remarry and therefore have intercourse with another man. Even my commentary of Sunan Abu Dawud mentions this. So now we have established this Hadith, as found and understood by the scholars of Hadith and Sira, know that this is referring to women who's husbands had died and had the choice after their waiting period to get married to the Muslim men. Some remarried.
I would like to point out that both Sahih Bukhari and Ibn Hisham do not mention the incident of these captives getting remarried to the Muslim men, which throws doubt into the authenticity of the entire story.
Also why look at one Tafsir? The Tafsir of Ibn Abbas which holds MORE authority then the Tafsir of Ibn Kathir makes it clear that Allah abrogated the Arab practice of having intercourse with captives of war without being married. It actually says that Allah commanded the Muslims to marry their captives of war and to treat them with kindness. Check it up for yourself, Tafsir of Ibn Abbas 4:24. That pretty much settles this conversation.
Also I would like to point out that my translation of the Sirah of Ibn Ishaq which is based on the surviving elements of Ishaq's work found in Tabari and Ibn Hisham does not mention the story of the captives having intercourse with the Muslim men. In fact it says that they were sent back to their husbands, fathers, or brothers(if they were alive after the battle). The others that converted to Islam, some did marry the Companions of the Prophet, but MOST went back to their families unharmed.
I love Tafsir ibn Abbas myself very much, but I think you missed something. Going to this tafsir here are the actual words: it is ALSO said that this means: so that you should seek with your money marrying women for an agreed period of time (zawaj al-mut'ah) but the lawfulness of this practice was later abrogated.
The practise that ibn Abbas is referring to in his tafsir talks about the abrogation of muta, temporary marriage, not having sex with married captives.
Before this he mentions the sexual relations with married female captives and then mentions muta, but doesn't say that THESE PRACTISES were abrogated. In fact, he mentions muta and then says hat it was this practise that was abrogated.
You could be right about the Tafsir of Ibn Abbas, however his first statement makes it clear that Muslim men could marry these captives of war, even if said captives had husbands, as Ibn Abbas says(in the Abode of War".
Also I want to point out that in the context since Ibn Abbas is referring to the temp. marriage, all my research I have done on this topic leads me to conclude that captives of war were part of this concept. Therefore I do not see them as separate topics but linked. Hence why when you read all of Ibn Abbas' explanations it leads one to conclude that Allah abrogated any and all practices except honest wedlock. That is my opinion of it at least.
When you say research can you lead me in the direction of the sources that you were examining. I would also like to do my research on those materials as well, and see what conclusion I come up with.
Also Muhammad Asad's commentary on the said verse which is also his view on the Hadith found in Sunan Abu Dawud is a excellent explanation for what we have been talking about.
So would you like to takes this convo outside? LOL or rather to your inbox? That's cool I don't mind telling you now, the commentary and scholar in question I am referring to is Muhammad Asad. I also would urge you since his notes are in his translation of his Quran. If you have access to it, look it up, he really proves what I have been saying this whole time lol.
Yes but not all servants/slaves are captivesof war and in this verse the context is specifically referring to women who are captives of war. So even if Islam does command Muslims to marry his female servants/slaves, which I do believe, the female captives of war according to this verse and its context makes the married female captives an exception to the need of marriage. And if not then the least I would say it allows men to mary their female maried captives and then have sex with them.
Now you cant compare todays standard with years agao. I dont have problem with slavery in bible. The only problem i see is the treatment and the differentiation between hebrew and non hebrew persons. Islam does say free the slave and treat them well .. But how you free the slave if you dont buy them??.
" you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way." (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)
So you say only because Bible supports Slavery & racism then Quran has a right to support it too? if some one is committing suicide then its good for u too? My friend Bible is a fictitious Book so don't compare these two here. You should look the history and see where you stand. Hadiths say free slaves, good but there is evidence that Muhammad himself bought slaves, even if he freed them, he did not say not buy them !
I dont this Bible is a fictitious book. Its either a historic apology or excuse. Many of bible is actual accounts that did happen and rest is teaching which was followed.
Now about your point that just becuase bible allowed its ok . NO i didnt mean that. All i was saying we have to look in historic context. 1500 years ago slavery was prety common ..just like we have workers in factory. Islam give guidlines how to treat slave and even give big reward if someone free a slave
The Prophet said, "If a slave-girl (Ama) commits illegal sexual intercourse, scourge her; if she does it again, scourge her again; if she repeats it, scourge her again." The narrator added that on the third or the fourth offence, the Prophet said, "Sell her even for a hair rope."
Also I am not going to get into this with you Mind, but I just want to point out that you quote two Hadiths and one Quranic verse completely out of context, and by context I mean textually and with no regard to its historical and theological background, and then say "Muhammad approved Slavery in Islam". I really think you need to look into what Muslim scholars have said and Islam's true view on this topic before commenting any further Mind.
You claim in ur video to present a single evidence in which Islam/Muhammad supports slavery, I gave you multiple evidence, even from the page u referred! The only thing u have to say its out of context, come on ozzy, its an old trick now, seriously u think u r the only person who understand the "context", rest assure the world is way ahead as it was b4, we are not stupid as u think we are. So why don't u explain us the hadith in which Muhammad selling slave girl if she doesn't behave?
No MIND you obviously need to go back and watch my video again, from what you just posted you missed the point. Yes I do think you misunderstand context, however I don't think your stupid. I never said there would be NO HADITH that does not mention slavery, however you need to view these Hadiths in light of the way Islam views the topic of slavery in general. If you read ALL THE HADITHS, plus the articles I presented in the description, you will see the true view on this matter.
Mind Master you have to look the historic context too. Slavery was very common practice at that time. Now since u started a debate lets see what bible and Jesus say about slavery Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)Paul
what is has to do with this debate ? who said we can not hate Muhammad ? He was not god, but rather a simple ordinary Arab of 7th CE ! nothing special about Him. BTW if we don't scrutinize his claims critically, how would we know he was telling us the truth ?
Lev19:20 " 'If a man sleeps with a woman who is a slave girl promised to another man but who has not been ransomed or given her freedom, there must be due punishment. Yet they are not to be put to death, because she had not been freed. 21 The man, however, must bring a ram to the entrance to the Tent of Meeting for a guilt offering to the LORD. 22 With the ram of the guilt offering the priest is to make atonement for him before the LORD for the sin he has committed, and his sin will be forgiven.
I will do that for sure. May I suggest that you read the many articles on this subject that can be found on the website Islamonline. The scholars that write about the topic of Slavery in Islam do a great job of clearing up many of the misconceptions and they do represent the Sharia as viewed by all 4 school of thoughts. If there is a difference of opinion they mention it in the article itself.
as for now,and what I can remember,even within the sects there are no agreements about certain matters.For example an extreme point of view of Hanfafi school was, when a woman reverts from Islam she becomes her husbands slave girl, which later on Hanfani scholar, Ali Thanawai (not sure) changed the law, to a more civil one.
Thanks, i tried to open the audio links but they are not loading, I think there is something wrong with my browser, but will listen to them and will post my comments.
As for the 4 school of thoughts, I have to read more about them and i'll send you a pm after I'm done.
and Cyrus abolished slavery in a much shorter period of time, there is not a single hadith or verses ,that I know of, which says slavery should be abolished eventually.
sorry for posting comments in parts ,it wasn't going through for some reason.
I thank you for your comments, I do agree with what you said for the most part. However when I mentioned that that Islam came to end slavery was in reference to the Reliance of the Traveler and the majority of opinions of the 4 schools of thought in Sunni Islam as viewed by the Quran and Sunnah.
At the same time it's nice to see that Islam encourages slavery.But the Sunnah instructs muslims to take women and children as slaves after conquering a land.The concept of owning a person, is an accepted concept withing Islamic theology.
Since you mentioned War Captives I would encourage you to view the links I provided from Islamonline which has some audio clips from Muslim scholars discussing these concepts.
Muslim scholar = contradiction in terms. Islam is a political ideology put together by a bandit slaver, child molester and murderer. It gained all its territories through invasion and slaving. Furthermore Islam has had an unbroken slaving history for 1,400 years. Where is the progeny of the 112 million Africans trafficked to Arabia and beyond??
ritchloui 11 months ago
'The scholars have agreed'... great, so it must be true. I love this idea of God sanctioning moral relativity wherein 1000 years ago owning a slave is acceptable and today it is abhorrent and a vile abasement of humanity. I guess he knows best, eh?
beerathon 1 year ago
Not trying to label you, nor have i any qualifications to do so. Just that i have met some muslims i would call extremists and some that i would call moderate. Anyway, i usually try not to label people, it was just a word i temporarily used. Peace.
unitasetmagus 1 year ago
There is however numerous accouns of slaves just being freed, masters being ENCOURAGED to free muslim slaves or marrying former slavegirls (illustrating the status of women) but no direct command of abolition. Direct ORDERS to liberate (or to buy to liberate) any slaves goes only for those particular individuals separately.
I also wonder what was so special about lunar eclipses ?
Have i misunderstood anything ?
unitasetmagus 1 year ago
@unitasetmagus It is the understanding of Islamic law that the Prophet was sent to ultimatly end the harsh way slavery was conducted by first reforming it, then getting it out of the system of the early Muslims and then getting the ball rolling to end it. This is the attitude of major works on Islamic law and scholarship.
ozzycda 1 year ago
There is no passage i can find in there that condemns slavery or states the abolition of the whole institution, isntead i find:
"If a slave serves his Saiyid (i.e. master) sincerely and worships his Lord (Allah) perfectly, he will get a double reward." and "Goodness and comfort are for him who worships his Lord in a perfect manner and serves his master sincerely."
making it clear, that being slave is perfectly normal. So whatever your scholars say, there is no evidence of it in the qoran itself.
unitasetmagus 1 year ago
@unitasetmagus That is because as Muslims we do not establish Islamic law ONLY on the Quran. But on the Sunnah of the Prophet, the way of the Companions and the Fatwas of the Scholars. So therefore the attitude of the former and not the latter is where we get our evidences for the ending of slavery.
ozzycda 1 year ago
@ozzycda I'm glad that you have this liberal way of thinking. But then where in sunnah is it ORDERED to abolish slavery ??? Fatwas, i think you would say, are WEAK. And law is not eternal, it can be changed by authorities in any time (especially when "the prophet" himself does not support such a law).
"It is the understanding of Islamic law that ..." If only majority of muslims would think like you do, there wouldn't be many problems that muslim communities/countries are facing today.
unitasetmagus 1 year ago
@unitasetmagus This is not the liberal way of thinking but is contained by Fatwas which I am sorry are not WEAK as you have states since they are legal opinions that the majority of Sunni Muslims follow and have followed for centuries. The Fatwas I am referring to are given by scholars of Islam, which are contained in "conservative" books of fiqh. This is the majority understanding that the Prophet came to abolish slavery as can be seen by his Sunnah, companions and classical scholars.
ozzycda 1 year ago
@ozzycda So as i understand, there is no direct order of abolition in the qoran nor sunnah.
I call your view liberal because i have heard many popular islamic "preachers" who aren't familiar with these fatwas you mention.
I try to understand islam not only culturally, both historical and contemporary, and if i would convert to any religion, i would only rely on ORIGINAL TEXTS, interpretation can be contemporal (or progressive) but it still does not change the original text. cont...
unitasetmagus 1 year ago
@unitasetmagus ... For example: the most numerous and popular christian churches teach many things that Jesus did not. So do i rely on catholicism, evangelical protestants or the bible when talking about christianity ? I personally would go with the actual text and then listen what the bible critics have to say about the authenticity of the text. Because only then could i understand how to rebuke the "false teachings" (and also extremism). I would use the same approach to any religion. cont...
unitasetmagus 1 year ago
@unitasetmagus ... Because most followers of any religion (unlike maybe you and me) doesn't know much about scholars, about differen't schools or even what's the difference in between them. And the primary source of their religious sorces remain the local "preacher".
Or even how many websites are there misleading even the hardiest searcher.
Sorry for the long post, but i hope you understand where i'm coming from.
unitasetmagus 1 year ago
@unitasetmagus It's all good feel free to type how much you want if it helps to get your point across. I do see what your saying and I think I can agree with you if I understood you correctly. Many religious people do just follow their local preacher, Imam, and Rabbi instead of understanding the scholarship and academic aspects of their faith. Both Judaism and Islam expect a scholarly knowledge to understand one's faith and sadly many Jews and Muslims do not see that whole picture. cont.
ozzycda 1 year ago
@ozzycda cont. Same is true with other faiths as well. Again I do not see my views as one that can be simply labeled as "liberal" since all the source material I use, such as classical tafsirs, textsbooks on the science of the Quran and hadith, books of fiqh and articles on Islam are not written by "liberals" and really don't have a liberal mind. I would say my approach is scholarly and academic unlike many who just quote some verses and then think of stuff off the top of their head.
ozzycda 1 year ago
@unitasetmagus What is clear from the Sunnah is that the Prophet was reforming the way slavery was viewed and conducted and making it something much more humane instead of abusive and negative. According his companions and classical scholars the idea is that Islam came to totally get rid of slavery. So it was viewed as a process of elimination rather then instant abolition.
ozzycda 1 year ago
@ozzycda So when the Muslims routinely castrated their male slaves, this is treating them better. When their taste for sexual depravity means they need millions of women and children to murder. That's improving the lot of slaves? The Muslim idea of heaven is basically a sick orgy with lots of young women who have no purpose but sexual gratification. It's so blatant and obscene it's hard to find the words to express the disgust I have.
ritchloui 11 months ago
@ritchloui Disgust for what? This world is filled with ignorant, one-minded imbeciles like you that will never open to others religions or respect their customs. The take on "women" being in heaving is represented by the idea that you can have anything you've ever wanted to have. Same ideals that every other major religion has. You're ignorance advises you to criticize every aspect of Islam yet it relates to what you may believe in, in many ways as well.
SirGotHops 1 month ago
@SirGotHops No it is not my 'ignorance' that leads me to criticize Islam and its slaving legal code Sharia. It is what I have found out about about them and their consequences. There no evidence whatsoever for the lonely old celestial dictator. It is time Mankind stopped believing in such garbage. Delusion is not a good recipe for mental health or understanding.
ritchloui 1 month ago
@ritchloui First of all, I'm not delusional. Thanks for the appraisal though! Second, you're speaking as if you've gone back in time and witnessed the blessings that were presented to the Prophet himself. You're rambling on about "dictators", please elaborate. You're generally criticizing religion itself because the same can be done for all religions if you believe having a "God" is garbage and delusional. What exactly do you feel repulsed by when it comes to the Sharia? Explain.
SirGotHops 1 month ago
@SirGotHops As regards Isalmic Sharia and what I am 'repulsed' by. Well, shoving women into sacks, slaughtering or forcing the conversion of people, taxing those who refuse, institutionalising inequality so that the lesser people in effect have no voice. That's before we get to the strong, maiming, mutilating, flogging, beheadings and general horrors to be expected from a slaving ideology. That is what is repulsive about Sharia. 75% of the worlds asylum seekers are escaping Islam.
ritchloui 1 month ago
o btw i didnt mention anything about islam but those ppl who claim to be muslims
AllGirlsWannaHaveFun 1 year ago
ozzycda
you can't deny that muslim arabs & turks did an ETHNIC slavery + castration
even today black people in middle east or north africa are still treated as animals
AllGirlsWannaHaveFun 1 year ago
@AllGirlsWannaHaveFun I don't deny that, however according to Islamic teachings and scholars of fiqh slavery was to be totally gotten rid of with the advent of Islam in a process that was unique for the time and place. I also acknowledge that slavery and human sex trafficking are a major issue on a global level irrespective of culture, ideology and religion. I am not fully aware of the state of Africans in the Middle East and North Africa, but I will say that the vast majority of Arabs and cont.
ozzycda 1 year ago
@ozzycda cont. Africans I have met from those regions have never mentioned this topic at all, i.e. active slavery and ethnic treatment of certain people as animals. Could you provide me with book titles or scholarly articles on the subject? Thanks.
ozzycda 1 year ago
@AllGirlsWannaHaveFun I'm in north Africa and 1-I'm not black
2- your facts are wrong from the beginning Islam is color blind cuz Sudan and some of the middle east countries are black or brown slavery doesn't exist in islam
khaaaled2007 1 year ago
@khaaaled2007
1/there is a big difference between what islam states and what arabs / arab world in general does
2/did i say that north africans were blacks ? or u wanna deny that there is some blacks in this region due to the arabic slavery
3/ sudan ? have u forgotten that the so called arab sudanese wanna eradicate black sudanese from their own land ? & what about mauritania ?
don't u know slavery still exists today in this country
AllGirlsWannaHaveFun 1 year ago
@AllGirlsWannaHaveFun You got it wrong south soudan wants to eradicate not north so ... and there are blacks in my own country but even saying the word black is strange for me i can't explain to you how we look at these things !emmm it's like the color of hair or eyes we don't care about it !and Moritania is rclose to me they have some troubles but slavery isn't one !and Arabs and muslims are humans and not perfect so you have the whole right to criticize them but not Islam ^^ Peace from algeria
khaaaled2007 1 year ago
Can any one Keep me up to date !! What argument are they using now?? Slavery????????????? racist??????? i can't think of anything that they might misunderstand or take out of contain !Racist in Islam ?? Black people in the Usa are Converting to islam after finding out how color blind islam is
khaaaled2007 1 year ago
Dude I'm a black muslim and I would do anything to be the Prophet's slave. Just if some of his greatness would rub off of me. Even if the prophet removed my shackles I would put it back on. That's how much he means to me.
coolkid19901 1 year ago
if bilal was the closest companion of the prophet then he would have more to say than most other who have had a lot ,why is that ?
kinghotep 2 years ago
this is a great video and i, mashalla got the answer however what i was confronted by is that y has God not outlawed slavery in the Quran and what is meant by what ur right hand posesses. like i said earlier and totally agree that eventual extinction of slavery was only a matter of time and from my little research that slaves are only the ones who r captives from war, i may be wrong but if quran does not abolish slavery then what is to be taken by the followers, possibly i have not come across
ah05075 2 years ago
a passage from the quran where it does abolish it but if u can assist me with the direct question, enough gratitude is due.
may Allah reward u lots, mashalla a wide range of videos
may u a wonderful Eid and may Allaahhave mercy on u and ur family, me and the ummah and the worlds
ah05075 2 years ago
See the articles I posted in the more info section the right side of the video, these also give additional information.
ozzycda 2 years ago
And while Jewish presence in the Middle East long precedes that of Islam and Jews are indigenous to that region, this is not the case for Arabs in Africa.
longstrong123z 2 years ago
If Arabs and their diaspora (and their Iranian allies) can argue for a Jew-free Middle East, then black Africans and those of us who are part of the diaspora can argue for an Arab-free Africa. After all, Arabs have been occupying black land and committing massive atrocities against blacks - atrocities that far surpass anything Israel has done to the Palestinians - for 1,400 years.
longstrong123z 2 years ago
Bro, see my comments in his video too.
AFreeThinker123 3 years ago
Baarak Allahu feek akhi, I love your videos and I'm just letting you know that you made a minor mistake, the Companion who narrated the most ahadeeth was Abu Hurayrah; `Aa'esha is the one who passed down most of the fiqh rulings.
alHanbali 3 years ago
Thank you for the correction. :D
ozzycda 3 years ago
What do you think about Quran 4:24? Not only is slavery allowed, but, a slave master can have sex with a married slave who is married.
ItsAmadWorld2 3 years ago
Again I would encourage you to look at the sources I posted in the description section with regards to this topic. 4:24 is referring to the right of marriage between a owner and a servant.
ozzycda 3 years ago
And, the sources will be honest, and, not taqqiya?
ItsAmadWorld2 3 years ago
Again I think your understanding of Taqqiya is way off, but yes they will be based on authentic and truthful resources.
ozzycda 3 years ago
How is it way off?
ItsAmadWorld2 3 years ago
Well from the way you have been throwing the word and concept around, and the fact that you admitted you have never read a Sharia Fiqh book on the subject, I would would assume you do not know the true understanding of that concept, hence you are way off.
ozzycda 3 years ago
4:24 is not give the owner right to have sex with a slave who is already married, where are your evidence for that?
ozzycda 3 years ago
"004.024
YUSUFALI: Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess:
PICKTHAL: And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess.
SHAKIR: And all married women except those whom your right hands possess (this is) Allah's ordinance to you,"
ItsAmadWorld2 3 years ago
Right, and in order to do anything with the said servants, they have to be married to the Muslim owner, and thus freed according to Sharia Law and the sources I mentioned above.
ozzycda 3 years ago
Have to be married to the Muslim owner?!? You mean, they are married to their Muslim owner AND another person? A slave woman can have TWO husbands?
ItsAmadWorld2 3 years ago
No, see this is why I am telling you to read the articles I presented to you. To my understanding if the Muslim man wants to marry the servant of course she would have to divorce her former husband, but this would all be done with the choice of the woman-servant.
ozzycda 3 years ago
If true, why doesn't Quran 4:24 say it that way instead of saying women who are married are forbidden to you ACCEPT those who are "what your right hand posesses" (slave)? Where does it say they are divorced from their husbands in 4:24?
ItsAmadWorld2 3 years ago
Holy CRAP!!! It DOES say you can have sex with a female slave who is married! You weren't joking!!!
kevoinitch 3 years ago
Again look at the Fatwa that discusses this topic, in order to sleep with them they have to be married to you. Thus divorcing their husband since Islam is against Adultery. It's called common sense here.
ozzycda 3 years ago
The context of Surah 4:24 is telling Muslim men who they can or cannot marry, which includes the prohibition of not marrying married women in Surah 4:24, but then in that same verse it provides an exception to tat rule by saying, "except those whom your right hand possesses", meaning the prohibition of not marrying married women doesn't apply on those whom your right hand possesses". You can marry any married women in Islam whether slave or not, IF SHE gets DIVORCED first.
YeshuaIsMyLord 3 years ago
Again you have to understand how Sharia views this issue, this is why you should read the articles I presented to you. Now your not reading the FULL VERSE 4:24 does say "Thus hath Allah ordained (Prohibitions) against you: Except for these, all others are lawful, provided Ye seek(them in marriage)..." That is from the Yusuf Ali translation. So as you can see from the further context of 4:24 in order to have any relationship with a servant you must approach her in marriage.
ozzycda 3 years ago
You mean you CAN have sex with women who are married and NOT your slave?
ItsAmadWorld2 3 years ago
To quote a Fatwa given my a scholar on the website Islamonline:
"But, we have to stress that this case should not be confused with that of female servants or maids, for they are free and not slaves. Therefore, it is forbidden to engage in sexual relations with them except through an Islamic marriage."
ozzycda 3 years ago
*by
ozzycda 3 years ago
They are "free and not slaves"? What does "what your right hand posesses" mean to you?
ItsAmadWorld2 3 years ago
Well if you read the articles I have been telling you to read your questions would be answered.
ozzycda 3 years ago
You can't put it in a summary? And, if I read what you want me to, I can trust that it's true and NOT taqqiya, true? Are you sure?
ItsAmadWorld2 3 years ago
Just read the evidence I have provided, and yes I know its not Taqqiya because I unlike yourself actually understand that concept from both a Sunni and Shia point of view.
ozzycda 3 years ago
Well that's something will also try doing myself as well.
YeshuaIsMyLord 3 years ago
Yeah but they are servants, who may not be those "whom you right hand possesses", which are referred to female captives of war, so I don't think female SERVANTS or MAIDS would really fall into this category. Peace.
YeshuaIsMyLord 3 years ago
Servants and slaves(english) are from the same Arabic word/root, same with the phrase "right hand possessed" all mean the same thing.
Peace
ozzycda 3 years ago
They may come from the same root, but are the words for slave and servant in Arabic the same word? If it in reference to both servants and slaves then that Fatwa from that website is not accurate, since Ibn Khatir's tafsir of Surah 4:24 mentions an incident where the companions were wondering or not to have sex with those married women, but when this revelation came they went into those married women no mention of divorce and them arriage to them.
YeshuaIsMyLord 3 years ago
To my understanding the same Arabic word can be used in english for slave and servant. Now you are right about Ibn Kathir however the Tafsir does not give the full story. The women who were captured as servants were married, however in the Battle of Hunayn their husbands had been killed in the battle. The companions felt guilty for wanting to have sexual relations for them because they were not technically divorced, but widowed. Thus the verse was revealed, this allowed the Muslim men, cont.
ozzycda 3 years ago
Cont. to marry these women since as you mentioned in the context of the Quranic verses it is mentioning who Muslim men can and cannot marry. This therefore allowed Muslim men to marry captives of war and take care of them. My sources for this explanation is the Encyclopedia of Islam, however I would like to point out that this Hadith recorded is not in the any authentic source. Meaning that the Hadith narrated in the Tafsir that gives this permission is not considered authentic.
ozzycda 3 years ago
Take a look:
Abu Said al-Khudri said: The apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) sent a military expedition to Awtas on the occasion of the battle of Hunain. They met their enemy and fought with them. They defeated them and took them captives. Some of the Companions of the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers. So Allah, the Exalted, sent down the Quranic verse, cont.
ozzycda 3 years ago
cont. And all married women (are forbidden) unto you save those (captives) whom your right hands possess. That is to say, they are lawful for them when they complete their waiting period. (Sunan of Abu Dawud, Volume 2, Number 2150)
So what does this most common wording of the Hadith found in the Tafsir of Ibn Kathir end with? " save those (captives) whom your right hands possess. That is to say, they are lawful for them when they complete their waiting period" What does this mean? cont.
ozzycda 3 years ago
cont.
It means that they had to wait the traditional waiting period for a DIVORCED or WIDOWED woman has to wait before she can remarry and therefore have intercourse with another man. Even my commentary of Sunan Abu Dawud mentions this. So now we have established this Hadith, as found and understood by the scholars of Hadith and Sira, know that this is referring to women who's husbands had died and had the choice after their waiting period to get married to the Muslim men. Some remarried.
ozzycda 3 years ago
I would like to point out that both Sahih Bukhari and Ibn Hisham do not mention the incident of these captives getting remarried to the Muslim men, which throws doubt into the authenticity of the entire story.
ozzycda 3 years ago
Also why look at one Tafsir? The Tafsir of Ibn Abbas which holds MORE authority then the Tafsir of Ibn Kathir makes it clear that Allah abrogated the Arab practice of having intercourse with captives of war without being married. It actually says that Allah commanded the Muslims to marry their captives of war and to treat them with kindness. Check it up for yourself, Tafsir of Ibn Abbas 4:24. That pretty much settles this conversation.
ozzycda 3 years ago
Also I would like to point out that my translation of the Sirah of Ibn Ishaq which is based on the surviving elements of Ishaq's work found in Tabari and Ibn Hisham does not mention the story of the captives having intercourse with the Muslim men. In fact it says that they were sent back to their husbands, fathers, or brothers(if they were alive after the battle). The others that converted to Islam, some did marry the Companions of the Prophet, but MOST went back to their families unharmed.
ozzycda 3 years ago
I love Tafsir ibn Abbas myself very much, but I think you missed something. Going to this tafsir here are the actual words: it is ALSO said that this means: so that you should seek with your money marrying women for an agreed period of time (zawaj al-mut'ah) but the lawfulness of this practice was later abrogated.
The practise that ibn Abbas is referring to in his tafsir talks about the abrogation of muta, temporary marriage, not having sex with married captives.
YeshuaIsMyLord 3 years ago
cont.
Before this he mentions the sexual relations with married female captives and then mentions muta, but doesn't say that THESE PRACTISES were abrogated. In fact, he mentions muta and then says hat it was this practise that was abrogated.
YeshuaIsMyLord 3 years ago
You could be right about the Tafsir of Ibn Abbas, however his first statement makes it clear that Muslim men could marry these captives of war, even if said captives had husbands, as Ibn Abbas says(in the Abode of War".
ozzycda 3 years ago
Yes, I do accept what you are saying.
YeshuaIsMyLord 3 years ago
Also I want to point out that in the context since Ibn Abbas is referring to the temp. marriage, all my research I have done on this topic leads me to conclude that captives of war were part of this concept. Therefore I do not see them as separate topics but linked. Hence why when you read all of Ibn Abbas' explanations it leads one to conclude that Allah abrogated any and all practices except honest wedlock. That is my opinion of it at least.
ozzycda 3 years ago
When you say research can you lead me in the direction of the sources that you were examining. I would also like to do my research on those materials as well, and see what conclusion I come up with.
YeshuaIsMyLord 3 years ago
Again check the articles, most of them are from Islamonline.
ozzycda 3 years ago
Also Muhammad Asad's commentary on the said verse which is also his view on the Hadith found in Sunan Abu Dawud is a excellent explanation for what we have been talking about.
ozzycda 3 years ago
Who are these scholars and can you also post this commentary or at least send to me at my account.
YeshuaIsMyLord 3 years ago
cont.
meaning can write it to me by sending it to my youtube inbox, sorry I just felt like elaborating
YeshuaIsMyLord 3 years ago
So would you like to takes this convo outside? LOL or rather to your inbox? That's cool I don't mind telling you now, the commentary and scholar in question I am referring to is Muhammad Asad. I also would urge you since his notes are in his translation of his Quran. If you have access to it, look it up, he really proves what I have been saying this whole time lol.
ozzycda 3 years ago
Yes but not all servants/slaves are captivesof war and in this verse the context is specifically referring to women who are captives of war. So even if Islam does command Muslims to marry his female servants/slaves, which I do believe, the female captives of war according to this verse and its context makes the married female captives an exception to the need of marriage. And if not then the least I would say it allows men to mary their female maried captives and then have sex with them.
YeshuaIsMyLord 3 years ago
Once again I do agree with you with the idea that in order for the Muslim to have intercourse with any slave, servant or captive he must marry her.
ozzycda 3 years ago
Now you cant compare todays standard with years agao. I dont have problem with slavery in bible. The only problem i see is the treatment and the differentiation between hebrew and non hebrew persons. Islam does say free the slave and treat them well .. But how you free the slave if you dont buy them??.
ammir1 3 years ago
Those who claim Islam approve slavery, do not know Islam either by ignorance or by mere hypocrisy.
getaranjiwaramlee 3 years ago
Talking about racism among slave again bible
" you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way." (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)
ammir1 3 years ago
@ammir
So you say only because Bible supports Slavery & racism then Quran has a right to support it too? if some one is committing suicide then its good for u too? My friend Bible is a fictitious Book so don't compare these two here. You should look the history and see where you stand. Hadiths say free slaves, good but there is evidence that Muhammad himself bought slaves, even if he freed them, he did not say not buy them !
MindMasters 3 years ago
I dont this Bible is a fictitious book. Its either a historic apology or excuse. Many of bible is actual accounts that did happen and rest is teaching which was followed.
Now about your point that just becuase bible allowed its ok . NO i didnt mean that. All i was saying we have to look in historic context. 1500 years ago slavery was prety common ..just like we have workers in factory. Islam give guidlines how to treat slave and even give big reward if someone free a slave
ammir1 3 years ago
Muhammad approved Slavery in Islam Sahi Bukhari
Volume 3, Book 46, Number 731:
Narrated Abu Huraira and Zaid bin Khalid:
The Prophet said, "If a slave-girl (Ama) commits illegal sexual intercourse, scourge her; if she does it again, scourge her again; if she repeats it, scourge her again." The narrator added that on the third or the fourth offence, the Prophet said, "Sell her even for a hair rope."
MindMasters 3 years ago
Another Hadiths regarding Slaves from Sahi Bukhari
Volume 3, Book 46, Number 726:
Narrated 'Abdullah:
The Prophet said, "If a slave serves his Saiyid (i.e. master) sincerely and worships his Lord (Allah) perfectly, he will get a double reward."
MindMasters 3 years ago
Quran mentioning of Slavery
"070.030 Except with their wives and the (captives) whom their right hands possess,- for (then) they are not to be blamed, "
MindMasters 3 years ago
Again Mind maybe you should read the articles I presented in the description section of this video before commenting on the said video.
ozzycda 3 years ago
Also I am not going to get into this with you Mind, but I just want to point out that you quote two Hadiths and one Quranic verse completely out of context, and by context I mean textually and with no regard to its historical and theological background, and then say "Muhammad approved Slavery in Islam". I really think you need to look into what Muslim scholars have said and Islam's true view on this topic before commenting any further Mind.
ozzycda 3 years ago
@ozzycda
You claim in ur video to present a single evidence in which Islam/Muhammad supports slavery, I gave you multiple evidence, even from the page u referred! The only thing u have to say its out of context, come on ozzy, its an old trick now, seriously u think u r the only person who understand the "context", rest assure the world is way ahead as it was b4, we are not stupid as u think we are. So why don't u explain us the hadith in which Muhammad selling slave girl if she doesn't behave?
MindMasters 3 years ago
No MIND you obviously need to go back and watch my video again, from what you just posted you missed the point. Yes I do think you misunderstand context, however I don't think your stupid. I never said there would be NO HADITH that does not mention slavery, however you need to view these Hadiths in light of the way Islam views the topic of slavery in general. If you read ALL THE HADITHS, plus the articles I presented in the description, you will see the true view on this matter.
ozzycda 3 years ago
Mind Master you have to look the historic context too. Slavery was very common practice at that time. Now since u started a debate lets see what bible and Jesus say about slavery Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)Paul
ammir1 3 years ago
You don't like The Prophet of Islam very much, do you?
getaranjiwaramlee 3 years ago
The question "you dont like..." is for MindMasters.
getaranjiwaramlee 3 years ago
@getaranjiwaramlee
what is has to do with this debate ? who said we can not hate Muhammad ? He was not god, but rather a simple ordinary Arab of 7th CE ! nothing special about Him. BTW if we don't scrutinize his claims critically, how would we know he was telling us the truth ?
MindMasters 3 years ago
MindMasters. I know its nothing to do with the debate.I only want to know your stand on The Prophet. Now I know you ARE NOT a non believer hypocrite.
getaranjiwaramlee 3 years ago
Lev19:20 " 'If a man sleeps with a woman who is a slave girl promised to another man but who has not been ransomed or given her freedom, there must be due punishment. Yet they are not to be put to death, because she had not been freed. 21 The man, however, must bring a ram to the entrance to the Tent of Meeting for a guilt offering to the LORD. 22 With the ram of the guilt offering the priest is to make atonement for him before the LORD for the sin he has committed, and his sin will be forgiven.
ammir1 3 years ago
salaam
Great video.
peace
zafthedon 3 years ago
GOOD JOB BROTHER
Kitab14 3 years ago
Prophet (PUBH) last sermon is against any kind of racism
xiaahmad 3 years ago
Bilal(RA) was made first mozan of Islam
he was the one that use to climb on Kabba to give call for prayer
xiaahmad 3 years ago
GOOD JOB BROTHER.
smaweee 3 years ago
and as for Hanbali, I would suggest reading Ibn Qayyim, Ibn Taymmiya (who is also accepted by Salafis, even though they are not a sect).
But sure, I'll do some reading on the subject and will get back to you.
:)
AceoIogy 3 years ago
I will do that for sure. May I suggest that you read the many articles on this subject that can be found on the website Islamonline. The scholars that write about the topic of Slavery in Islam do a great job of clearing up many of the misconceptions and they do represent the Sharia as viewed by all 4 school of thoughts. If there is a difference of opinion they mention it in the article itself.
Peace
ozzycda 3 years ago
as for now,and what I can remember,even within the sects there are no agreements about certain matters.For example an extreme point of view of Hanfafi school was, when a woman reverts from Islam she becomes her husbands slave girl, which later on Hanfani scholar, Ali Thanawai (not sure) changed the law, to a more civil one.
AceoIogy 3 years ago
Thanks, i tried to open the audio links but they are not loading, I think there is something wrong with my browser, but will listen to them and will post my comments.
As for the 4 school of thoughts, I have to read more about them and i'll send you a pm after I'm done.
AceoIogy 3 years ago
Cool I look forward to it.
ozzycda 3 years ago
and Cyrus abolished slavery in a much shorter period of time, there is not a single hadith or verses ,that I know of, which says slavery should be abolished eventually.
sorry for posting comments in parts ,it wasn't going through for some reason.
AceoIogy 3 years ago
I thank you for your comments, I do agree with what you said for the most part. However when I mentioned that that Islam came to end slavery was in reference to the Reliance of the Traveler and the majority of opinions of the 4 schools of thought in Sunni Islam as viewed by the Quran and Sunnah.
ozzycda 3 years ago
good vid im gonna sub was that hater pat condell?
Murlixin 3 years ago
nope, if you watch my Islam against Africans video I say the users name.
ozzycda 3 years ago
Is there access to this article form the Reliance of the Traveler online?
YeshuaIsMyLord 3 years ago
At the same time it's nice to see that Islam encourages slavery.But the Sunnah instructs muslims to take women and children as slaves after conquering a land.The concept of owning a person, is an accepted concept withing Islamic theology.
AceoIogy 3 years ago
Since you mentioned War Captives I would encourage you to view the links I provided from Islamonline which has some audio clips from Muslim scholars discussing these concepts.
Peace
ozzycda 3 years ago
I have read the hadiths about freeing slaves, which is what some arabs did even before islam,and considered it as a good deed.
AceoIogy 3 years ago
I'm not a muslim, at the same time I agree with you, Islam is not racist,it discriminates by religious belief but not race.
AceoIogy 3 years ago