Yeeaahh they didn't just decide to curve the blade, the molecular structure of the steel when it's cooled quickly on the edge is more crystalline than the softer steel in the spine. The more rigid structure at the edge forces a curve. it doesn't even happen until they quench the sword. The first time it happened, it was most likely a surprise that happens to produce a superior cutting blade. sigh.
Contrary to a popular belief, there is no such thing as "HACKING sword"!
No sword can "hack" by design, this feature is best represented by an axe. The shape and mass distibution of any sword is fundamentally different from any axe, if you try to use it like an axe - very little effect will be achieved. Straight sword, if used with a special "drawback cutting technique" perform just like curved ones, it's all about technique.
The notion of a "hacking sword" comes from modern movies.
Correct that the Japanese sword was patterned after the Chinese Dao and not he Jian. This is why the Japanese sword has a single edge. The early Japanese sword did not have it's distinctive curve, only after perfecting the smithing process to have a flexible but hard blade did the Japanese sword get it's curve.
I don't know where this guy gets his martial history but he keeps botching it. He already did it to Filipino Kali.
Whoever gave him his instructor's certificate must be in hiding now.
this guys an idiot straight sword was used for thrusting and slicing as mentioned by kenz0r1337 plus he didn't even mention the important history of the sword which relates to the samurai and his spiritual connection with his katana
PARA DE FAZER VIDEO DO QUE VOCE NAO SABE PORRA, namoral me da aguinia ver explicações tao superficiais sobre essas armas. Idiota se acha o maximo mais nao sabe de porra niuma. Não e formado em porra niuma e fica ai falando de armas que voce nunca usou de verdade para treino.
I love it when White boys with extremely short hair give us history lessons about Asian history LOL you probably never even BEEN to Japan but he is telling us how they came about, how to use em.. cause they (use em in their dojo) nigger you're DOJO ISNT SHIT compared to the real thing. your just a white kid playing with a cheap knock off sword.
Nothing is better than Polish Hussar sabre. Look on this samples below, any other white weapon is not so quick as sabre and fore sure any sword even Japanese katana. See yourself how quick polish hussar sabre is. Any Japanese fencer wouldn’t have a chance with master of polish hussar sabre.
/watch?v=oo0z_R59P8M
/watch?v=LzHYqehsAYA
/watch?v=pHP4pSQvbxk
This are fencer from Polish Sabre Society in Warsaw
@GregorMar I can fight faster than those videos on a 2 handed 3lb Japanese katana, have you ever used one? Depends more on the swordsman that the sword itself. The katana is also a stronger material, and there are lighter weapons believe it or not than the hussar sabre, although not as effective if you ask me. The advantage I can see with a hussar sabre is that its one handed and comfortable unlike the spanish longsword which is incredibly unpractical
@pwnyomoma How fast is sword or sabre depends also from shape of blade, usual sword is not so fast as sabre. Wait a minute... Katana is also stronger material Why? Who told You such nonsense? Is just myth! Polish hussar sabres were made from Swedish iron and steel which is the best on all the world. Do you know what was the state military test for sabres used in army in 1930's?
Sabre had to cut five 0,5 centimeter steel rods and stab through 2 mm sheet metal when it was relies from 2 meter high.
@GregorMar nono wait, I didnt mean better material, since materials varie, you know like L6 banite and tamahagane for example, I meant structure, but hence the hussar is a sabre and not a katana sword, like comparing a glaive to a spear, well thats just how I see it since Im more of a 2 handed white weapon fighter. And yea I do own one tho I cant tell you if its 100% real since it was a gift.
@pwnyomoma So you are fan of 2 handed white weapons. But you know if during some fight your oponent will wound your arm then your fighting abilities will decrase, and if you use one hand white weapon then you my use two sabres in right and left hand and then you are twice more deadly. If you will have opportunity you should try real Polish hussar sabre from 1600’s, but it made only in Poland and good sabre cost at least 600 - 1000 $ will send you some photos on PM.
@GregorMar Thanks, I 100% agree with you there, infact it has happened to me multiple times(with wooden swords). I will see if I can get myself a real one altho I dont espect it to be cheap ofcourse. Also thanks for the links.
@pwnyomoma As to real one then you can get it only in Poland coz bcoz of history this sabre is not so well known as katana. You know between 1410-1700 Poland was the biggest and most powerful country in Europe, which was almost conquered all Russia but after 18th century in result of many wars it felt into decline and was divide into three parts between Russia, Germany and Austria (Austro-Hungary) and many Poles fought for independent of USA but world forgot about famous Polish history.
@GregorMar We cant afford to forget these kind of things, I wonder why I didnt hear about this before, wonder how it woulda been if Poland didnt fall into decline.
@pwnyomoma Yes I know coz in USA everyone heard about small wars in England or France coz Hollywood made movies about this but almost no one heard about battle of Grunwald in 1410 which was the biggest medival cavalry battle in which only on one side was 35 thousand heavy cavalry and together more than 65 thousand knights in heavy armors. There is no comparison with any battle in England or France. Here we had many wars and bcoz of that at least Poland felt into decline :-( and during 123 years
@pwnyomoma Poland wasn't on European maps. And For sure You didn't heard about battle of Wizna in September 1939 where 720 polish solders for 3 days stop 42 THOUSAND German solder 19th Freikorps commanded by Heinz Guderian with 350 tanks and 657 mortars, guns and grenade launchers and of course massive air support, almost no one knows that Poles brake enigma code and gave two Enigma machines to England and so one... this is not only history from 1600's but even later ehhh... What to do...
@pwnyomoma But if you ask me how would be if Poland didn't fall into decline then I must tell You that all history since 1600's would like different for example there wouldn't be Germany and there wouldn't be Russia coz in Russians lose all wars that they have with Poland to destroy Poland they need to have pact with Germans and they had it in 1700's and the same they had in 1939. If You are curious then may be you should read about Polish history even in Wikipedia it is written a bit in English
@Acrazedpyro Which info? I'm historian and politologist (political science). I don't know how you get your knowledge from, may be from movies, wikipedia or from cartoons, but I get mine from schools, my history and political science studies and books and practical knowledge of blades as swords and sabres also from my personal experience coz I fencing in historic society in my place.
@GregorMar well, mr. "politologist," thank you for showing me your intelligence and level of propriety. also, thanks for assuming i get MY knowledge from movies and cartoons. : )
i simply asked if you get your information from wiki because of YOUR statement: " If You are curious then may be you should read about Polish history even in Wikipedia it is written a bit in English" (GregorMar). you suggested to someone they should read wiki. nonetheless, i applaud you for trying to educate yourself
@Acrazedpyro No my dear friend I don't think you are stupid but for sure you dont know history of Poland very well and I know for sure that you didn't read many books about Poland and its history. And it may be even difficult to get them in your place that is why I wrote you that if you can't read this in books then at least you may read this in English in wikipedia coz there is written a bit. Not everything but at least something. I can give you several books in Polish but how you will read it?
@GregorMar good gregor, you are taking this too far. i had a simple question...one simple question. you could have simply said, "no."
instead, you identify yourself as a historian/politologist, you insult me, and you tell me how you gain knowledge. wise gregor, you told someone to look up something in wiki. wiki is not a reliable source, hence the reason universities do not allow it to be used as a reference. i thought that, you, being a historian, would understand. good day sir.
@Acrazedpyro OK then what do you want? You want to tell me that you know polish history well? Or that you can know everything? So did you heard about battle of Wizna in 1939, did you heard about battle of Warsaw in 1921, battle of Vienna 1683, Battle of Khotyn 1621, Battle of Klushino 1610 after which Poland rule in Russia, battle of Grunwald 1410 and many other? You know everything about noble democracy and constitution called Articuli Henriciani from 1573 if yes then OK good to you!
@GregorMar lol...for anyone else who reads this thread...
why is this kid talking about poland to me??
poland invaded warsaw in 1846 before becoming an island and establishing polish as an adjacent factor to the quantum mechanics of your left eye. the battle of Auschwitz was fought for many years by the poland rangers before coming to a complete blitz of hungary. scholars debate if bolivia was present for the remainder of the years just before 1711 when poland seceded from the union
@Acrazedpyro I see you don't feel well... And may be you should read first about orthography in wikipedia, English is not my native language and I can't make many mistakes but you should know that name of country should be written with big letter. So Poland not poland OK kid? As to everything else I see that there is no sense to talk with you.
@GregorMar lol...there you go using wiki as a reference...i tried being civil, never insulted you, tried joking and you missed all of it. i wish you the best!
@pwnyomoma Especially forgot about great battles and very high fencing skills of Polish nobles and their sabres especially Polish hussar sabre which was one of the best white weapons ever. So I will give you on PM site of very good blacksmith who makes real good sabres for hard fencing.
@pwnyomoma Did you ever have Polish hussar sabre in your hand? It has 85-95 long blade sharp from one side and 1/3 of blade is sharp from another side so you can stab and cut and slash in every position, weight is 0,7-0,85 kg and thanks to thumb protection it is much more maneuverable than any other blade.
Unfortunately it is not so well known as katana about which there is many myths and fairly tales. Look:
@GregorMar It defenelly doesnt cut through rocks at the speed of light, but it depends what katana you are talking about, what material, who made it, too many variables, if you cant cut an iron rod without noticeable damage atleast, then its not a real katana, its a manufactured replica. More importantly, although the structure of a sword defenelly can increase speed, a swordsman can train to match or outperform that speed with any weapon, not that I have. Im just a samurai wanabe. lol
@pwnyomoma But yet one thing as to sabres, you must know end every real fencing master will affirm this, but only with sabre you can make all spectrum of attacks and defenses movements which are not possible for 2 handed weapons.
@GregorMar One more thing tho, how heavy is a real Polish hussar? Mine weights the same as my katana but then again Im not sure if its real or not, mine's handle is different, infact im questioning if I actually own a Polish hussar now looking at these pictures. lol
@pwnyomoma Good blacksmith makes sabres under fencer so length and weight depend on fencer and his hight and preferences but usually blade has 83/85 - 93/95 cm long and weight between 0,66 - 0,97 kilogram but usually it is 0,80 - 0,85 kg. I will show you pictures of few polish hussar sabres that belonged to Polish kings and were used in great battle of Vienna where 15.000 Polish cavalry destroyed in dust 140.000 Turks (islamist).
@GregorMar I also find the hussar sabre to be far more comfortable than a short one-handed katana, coming from someone who isn't experienced with one handed swords I found it quite natural to use.
@MasterMaxD katana was just a type of sword used in Tang Dynasty which was abandoned in China later on due to its inconvenience in fights(for the situations of China),then it was adopted and refined by the Japanese.
This guy radiates stupidity. Where the hell is your tsuba? If you are going to attempt to make an "educational video" and fail at it the least you can do is have your katana in it's proper state.
The straight sword is not a hacking weapon....this guy has no clue what he is talking about. Even in Chinese swordsmanship when you cut with the blade of the sword there is a "drawing" motion to facilitate the cut. Only untrained or unskilled wielders would ever "hack" with a straight sword. The lack of weight would make such an endeavor both wasteful and damaging to the weapon.
As a follower of Jesus, AND a martial artist, my chief concern is the quality of the information I dispense. Read Toshishiro Obata's books.
Please, understand my spirit in this, you do not hold or handle that blade like one who knows what they are doing. Please look into Toyama Ryu BattoJutsu/Iaido, and stop handling that blade like a butter knife. Also, put the Tsuba back on your Katana.
Sorry, if I offend, but "faithful are the wounds of a friend." Proverbs 27:6
Actually the Tachi was the immediate predecessor of the katana, and it WAS used from horseback in the more warlike period of Japan's history. It wasn't until later with the advent of the Emperor, and the Shogunate that things calmed down. At which time the Tachi's curve was straightened somewhat, and the sword started to be worn edge up, by Samurai on foot, who basically became more of a police force.
@Thonero iam not tring to say that the tachi or katana was never used on hores back , but they was never made for horse back , swords was used on hores back but very realy use for that fact that the bow and arrow or the spear was far better and easy to use,
swords was made for ground battle, this is found in every culture, but seeing an guy on hore back with an tachi in hand is cool looking
You are mistaken, although the Bow did at cetain time tend to be used more, the sword was in fact used from horse back by design, and at that time was called a TACHI, the katana came later. You cite Jap. prof., but I wonder ... are they prof. who happen to be Japanese, or is their specialty actually in Japanese history?
Consult T. Obata on the subject, or any number of videos available on YouTube.
Just cuz Treys is wrong, on much doesn't make you right on anything in particular.
@KnightsofTrueNorth tachi was secondary weapon for foot soldiers, the number of mounted samurai was very small. alex takeuchi and karl friday are two professors who discuss this not made for hourse back but could have been use if needed
HACK! the Japanese sword is not an ax it is a 4 ft razor blade, it makes precise cuts you don't wield it like an ax unless you're completely ignorant on how to use it! They did not put a curve in of purpose you are making all this bs up! The blade naturally curves in the manufacturing process. the softer steel on the back of the blade contracts more than the hardened steel on the edge while the metal cools and the blade curves.
Actually, if you read Toshishiro Obata's books on the katana (Naked Blade, and Crimson Steel, which feature Toyama Ryu Batto Jutsu) you find out that prior to 800 A.D. the Japanese sword WAS straight, and double edged. So, you've described the method of making the katana, NOT the reason for the shape of the sword.
Remember China, had BOTH curved and straight swords, so it's not like the Japanese just made due with how the swords popped out of the forge, it was a conscious choice.
@KnightsofTrueNorth It is hard to believe Toshishro Obata would state that the curve of the blade was the conscious choice over a very hardened cutting edge with a softer more flexible steel core and back to reduce breakage. Perhaps you misunderstood what you have read in those two books I don't know because I have not read either one. Maybe in the future I will look into them at the present I am a student of Katori Shinto Ryu, Japans oldest existing martial art not the newer styles of Obata.
Think about it, China had both curved, and straight blades by design, and choice. Also, swords in Japan (I refer here to the ken) were straight prior to 800 A.D. So, Sir, with respect, either you are mistaken, or my own very noteworthy sources are wrong.
Obata did not create a style, he follows a style created by the Emperor's counsel on the subject prior to WWII... what came out as a result was Toyama Ryu Batto Jutsu / Iaido. Masters from many styles were consulted for this.
@KnightsofTrueNorth Respectfully this has gone on long enough please educate yourself a little more. Obata has created his own style based on his interpretation of the sword arts he has learned, he calls it Shinkendo and he is referred to as its founder. When the Samuari class was eliminated much of the different arts or "styles" were lost. The only that remained intact was the grandfather of all japanese sword arts Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto Ryu of which I am currently a student.
@nhaluta "this has gone on long enough?" check your tone. You are not dealing with a child. If Obata has developed a style since writing his books on his original style of Toyama Ryu Iaido, that hardly negates the factual statements of THOSE books on the history of the Japanese blade. Your evasion of the facts has NOT helped your argument. Also, I note you do not address the photographic evidence I cited previously. Nor have you consider the impact of coextant straight, & curved blades.
@KnightsofTrueNorth I am not dealing with a child I am dealing with a mind not much in advance of a child's. It was you that listed Obata's background, It was you that claimed incorrectly that he has not developed his own style. Again the reasons you and the fool in the video offer for the curving of swords are nothing but preposterous assumptions. And again I cannot address the pictures you have seen and I have not. This has gone on long enough any response is futile your illness is obvious.
Yes I mentioned Obata's background, but it was you who tried to use his recent accomplishments as an excuse to dismiss his previous statements. By the way did you read the article I sent you, and understand the the sources for THAT information. NO, probably not, else you would continue this thinly veiled ego trip of yours. I do not, and have not defended the guy in the video, actually if you read, I've had my own criticisms of him. Have fun with your assumed superiority. Osu!
@nhaluta Just a note (way up here, since things devolved further along), the change to a curved sword WAS a choice as opposed to an accident. The vast majority of swords in Japan, even blades of kofun times, were differentially hardened. The use of clay for differential hardening has been around since over 100 years BC, and composite blades made for hard edges and soft backs have been around for even longer. I can provide images and studies to support this if needed.
@Hyoujinsama What is your point? Yes many cultures have had curved swords, big fucking deal! The katana develops it's slight curvature from the heat treating process, by stating this very fact the intellectually deficient knightsoftruenorth thinks I'm calling it an accident. Are you just as fucking retarded as he is? Do believe that the Tachi sword was curved just so the sword wouldn't stick in the bodies that the horseman was chopping as he rode by like the moron in the video stated?
@nhaluta Woah, woah, woah. Take a cold shower and have a few breaths. I understand how the heat treatment causes curvature. I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying.
Even kofun chokuto had the same heat treatment. They were straight. Are we still on the same page here?
The curved sword is simply a change in design to better facilitate the type of cut motion utilized on certain battlefields at that point in time.
@Hyoujinsama Dude the Chokuto predates differential heat treatment process which by the way causes the Katana to curve. Yes it is an engineering change in the development of the swords not only for needs of technique but the materials it was used against. As the samurai armor changed so did his weapons and technique. For example the Maki-Uchi is a type of cut developed for power while avoiding the helmet.
The swords curvature was not to prevent it from sticking in bodies that is preposterous.
@nhaluta First off, I never said anything about swords sticking in bodies. The method of cutting takes care of that, not the blade itself.
About differential hardening, that is VERY untrue. The mass shift to the curved sword happened towards the end of Heian. Differential hardening with clay, as I said before, has been around since before 100 BC.
Would you like to see historic examples of jokoto swords that show OBVIOUS signs of differential hardening?
@Hyoujinsama First off the ass clown in the video says that the Japanese curved their swords so they wouldn't get stuck in the bodies they were hacking while they rode by on horseback. My initial comment on this video was to call him an idiot spreading ignorance. But Knightsoftruenorth did not like that started a dialog and put words in my mouth, personally I think the guy in the video's baby face gave him a stiffy and he did not like me making fun of him.
@Hyoujinsama Differential hardening has been around a long time I would love to see some jokoto or chokuto with the same metallurgy as a more modern Katana. Since the development of metal smelting, materials and forges as well as the forging process changed dramatically from that period to the Katana I think it would be a fucking amazing time traveling artifact worth million$. Different materials respond differently to their process of manufacture and deferential hardening.
Youtube doesn't allow links, so I I'll make a video to show you. Photographic proof, showing jokoto swords polished using traditional methods. jokoto swords that display hada AND hamon.
Diff. hardening has been around for much longer than the curved tachi, and laminated steel even more so. Aside from shaping and finer points of forging/heat-treating, the katana and chokuto are very similar. The materials/techniques did not change as much as you seem to think.
@nhaluta "I would love to see some jokoto or chokuto with the same metallurgy as a more modern Katana. Since the development of metal smelting, materials and forges as well as the forging process changed dramatically from that period to the Katana I think it would be a fucking amazing time traveling artifact worth million$."
With respect, Obata shows photographs of the straight ken, prior to 800 A.D., so there is no mistake.
The notion of the cruved blade being an "accident" of it's creation appeals to myth makers, and story tellers, but doesn't match the history of sword making at all, not in the Far East nor anywhere else in the world.
This is a classic example of where myth has been mistaken for history.
@KnightsofTrueNorth With respect I have seen pictures of straight swords before, in one of my Shihan's books his family is one of the licensed sword-smiths in Japan. I never claimed that the curving of the blade was an accident. The Katana's blade is straight until it is quickly cooled in water. Do not confuse the Katana with the Tachi the way this poor fool in the video has. His knowledge of japanese history is as preposterous as his skills.
@nhaluta First you argue Obata, never made such statements, and NOW you say he's wrong because he has (as a result of his long career, and study) developed his own style, thereby attempting to impune his statements prior to creating his own style. I perceive you do not wish to concede as authoritative, any view point except your own. You DO need the ego killing study of the sword. Osu!
@KnightsofTrueNorth Again you are putting words in my mouth I never argued any statements that Obata may or may not have made. In the beginning I said I have never read his books and at the present I have no interest too because I am involved in an older Japanese martial art than anything that Obata himself has studied, again perhaps in the future I will look into them. The only statements I impugn are yours and the fool in the video who believes swords are curved to avoid sticking in bodies.
The record of this conversation satisfys me completely. I think the reason you are so dismissive of
Toyama Ryu (which HAS distinguished itself in relatively recent service), is because your own antique style was not included as a contributor. Hmmm, one must wonder why? Let's see ... Muso Eishin Jikiden, Yagyu
Shinkage, Nakamura Ryu, nope, no, KATORI SHINTO RYU ... now tell me, what service have you given your style by your self serving ego trip? Be sure and tell your Sensei.
@KnightsofTrueNorth Thats right you got me I am so unimpressed about the sword art that you happened to read a book about is because of my ego and because my antique art of Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto Ryu is not listed as being a contributor to Toyama Ryu. Never mind the fact that the incomplete descendant art forms of Katori: Nakamura-ryū, Meifu Shinkage-ryū, Shintō Musō-ryū, Yagyū Shinkage-ryū just so happen to be the contributing art forms mean nothing at all.
Good. I'm glad you're amused... that's all that matters.
But since we don't really know what your source of information is, nor can we prove your sources are 1st person authoritative statements, all this conversation could be, is amusing.
The sword Treys is handling has a fake hamon and he completely forget about the Korean how developed the sori, the fuchi, the kashiri, the tsuka and the tsuba btw he is using a type of tsuba ment for tantos so yes he is brain dead
not sure where you got your information from but you should do some research of your own and see for yourself what the truth of the matter really is.. they curved the blade because it has a much less contact point than a straight sword and therefore it's able to cut smoother with less effort. you also completely left out Korea's part in Japan's history just like many other ignorant people do. Never follow blindly, be sure of what you think to be true.
The term 'katana' applies to any single-edged-sword. So how can a two-edged-sword be the origin of 'katana'. What you mean is that the Chinese sword was the origin to japanese swords.
@kenz0r1337 Katana is the japanese word for 'sword'. It's merely used mostly to describe the japanese sword. In the history of japan like the samurai, they would call it a sword...which in their language would come to ears as 'katana'...why don't you learn the language before you learn about the culture?
@MasterMaxD 'Katana' doesn't mean 'sword', it's a reference to a type of sword. Just like 'wakizashi' is. In other words, 'katana' is not the Japanese word for 'sword'. Now 'yaiba' is the correct word for 'sword' in Japanese. You wouldn't say that 'two-hander' or 'broadsword' is the word for 'sword' in English, do you? 'Sword' is 'sword' in English, and 'yaiba' is 'sword' in Japanese. Words like 'two-hander', 'broadsword', 'katana', 'wakizashi', 'chokutou' are just types of swords. Noob.
@kenz0r1337 刀 simply means sword or knife & can be pronounced in Japanese as katana, as well as chi or to (pronunciation is dependent on context & grammar usage). Other words can also mean sword such as ken (剣). Yes, there are names for specific sword types such as daito (big sword, 大刀) & shoto (small sword, 小刀 ). These same types can be referred to as tachi (太刀 & kodachi (小太刀) too. Lastly, the meanings of the words can also differ depending on the historical time period or ryu (school).
In the Tres-Tew-won style, made up by my main man he teaches here how early swords were used by foot soldiers for foot fighting and things like that. You could swing it that way, or that way. That's great information, thanks. He teaches everything 3-2-1.
Its from a Chinese Dao, Tang Dao(唐刀) actually, which was created in the Tang Dynasty. The Tang Dao is straight like a straight sword but one edged. But definitely not from the straight sword you were holding. The one you were holding suppose to be created a long long time after in the Qing Dynasty. Swords in the Tang dynasty and before were more thick, heavy, and strong.
I am not a swordsmith/am recollecting this from memory.
The curve comes from differential tempering.
By coating the spine of the katana with clay (thus insulating the spine from rapidly cooling) when the sword is heated then rapidly cooled via water, the spine does not cool or expand as fast as the harder HRC and faster expanding expanding edge. Since the edge is harder then the spine, the spine has no choice but to bend as it is softer.. This creates the sori, or the curve of the blade.
Number 2, the katana did not come from the Chinese straight sword last I checked.
Number 3 the PRIMARY weapon when on horseback for the samurai was the bow (yami I believe it was called) and arrow. Even on the ground the prefered weapon was the yari or naginata and the bow and arrow. The katana was often used as S.O.L (google it :P) weapon.
@AsAnAtheistFilms Actually yes the katana came from the Chinese & Korean straight sword. I actually own a kissaki moroha zukuri style sword, which has been called the "Grandfather of the katana", being an evolutionary step between Ken & tachi. The Kogarasu Maru made during the either the early Heian period (794 to 1185 AD) or late Nara period (710 to 794 AD), by the famous Japanese swordsmith Amakuni, who is said to have created the first curved Japanese sword.
Amakuni (天國) is the legendary swordsmith who created the first single-edged longsword (tachi) with curvature along the edge in the Yamato Province around 700 AD. He was the head of a group of swordsmiths employed by the Emperor of Japan to make weapons for his warriors. His son, Amakura, was the successor to his work. Although there are almost no modern examples of signed works by Amakuni, legend has it that the double-edged katana, Kogarasu Maru, was forged by this man.
This has been disputed before, where it has been found that the katana did not come from the chinese or korean straight sword. There are collections of a japanese straight sword until the katana's were banned during the Meiji Restoration era, this is of course quite "recent" 1860's. They started using straight swords concealed in walking sticks like your kissaki moroha zukuri style sword..
Also the sword you proposed Kogarasu Maru is rumored to have been made by Amakuni but it is not definitive. Even so, it is very difficult to say if the Chinese did indeed influence the Japanese katana.
@AsAnAtheistFilms Really it has? Seems you travel in very uneducated circles then. The sword techniques that spawned the katana came from China and Korea, in fact a large amount of the Japanese blades, are Japanese only because they were made there by Chinese & Korean sword smiths brought to Japan to make swords. This is the true story behind the katana. It is just hard for Japanese to admit they got their sword from someone else. BTW Ken to tachi to katana is the evolution.
@AsAnAtheistFilms The chokutō (直刀, "straight sword") is a type of Japanese sword that dates back to pre-Heian times. Chokutō were made in later periods, but usually as temple offering swords. Chokutō were straight and single-edged (sometimes partially double) hacking swords. That chokutō's design was originally imported to Japan from China, though seemingly most often through Korea. It is based on the archetypal Han Dynasty long straight iron sword with a ring pommel.
Gotcha I get it a bit more, however information does appear to be quite.. sparse regarding the subject of the Japanese katana.. Some sources state chokuto were prior to clay making (Amakuni~ era), others state chokuto were made as gifts to temples more then battle. I will research this further, as this is quite interesting, thank you for the education!
in responding to you saying that no swords were banged out quite like a katana. this isnt true. during their golden age arabic and islamic civilizations had a long history of folding steel. damascus steel was often folded and has a beautiful pattern because of it
The curve is actually made by the metals forming. A traditional Katana is made out of 3 different metals and when the metals are combined together the form the curve if they're combined right.
I noticed that a lot of people on here like to criticize this instructor-guy for not knowing anything about the history of the katana? Can anyone who's shredding into this guy with such harsh words actually give an accurate account? I mean: Sure, he's wrong. But do you know why he's wrong, or are you just saying that shit about him for a quick ego-boost?
@Spectermonkey The Chinese straight sword was the first type of sword brought into Japan. It was used in China mainly as a thrusting weapon although it could cut also, but its main purpose was thrusting. During the Heian period the tachi was developed in Japan which had a deep curve and was worn hung edge down. What we now call a katana did not start being popular until the late 16th century and was not the standard sword until the Edo period. Very very quick history due to limited space.
Good to see someone knows shit about shit with the katana.
You've unilaterally appeased my critical nature as a guy, but proved a lot of these "internet masters" wrong, criticizing this guy for being completely wrong. He's not completely right; but not completely wrong. Funny.
@Spectermonkey Yeah he is not completely wrong, just mostly wrong. There are little bits of accuracy here and there, but it is obvious that he never really learned from someone that knows about swords. And if you watch more of his videos you clearly see that they didn't know much about Japanese swordsmanship either.
I started practicing Niten Ichi Ryu about 3-4 months ago. Also I've studied swords throughout history for 7 years along with techniques for multiple weapons, and practicing by sparring with many different styles and weapons. Ahem anyways, at my novice level of knoweledge I still know that this is all wrong.
ughhh im tired of bullshit dojos here in america i just want to learn actual kenjutsu or iado from an actual master of the art and not some douchebag...i wonder if they accept american students in japan? i may be an amateur but even i know bullshit when i see it and expert village is full of it.
@blackninja789 there are many Koryu (older traditions) that are starting to accept foreign students in Japan now. a few years back Katori Shinto-Ryu began opening up, also Shinkage-Ryu...
As a 1st Dan Iaido practitioner, I have to say that this guy really has no idea what he's talking about. Just an inbred hill-billy with a sword. It's embarassing to watch his videos, and yet faintly amusing.
Wasnt the straight sword used mainly for stabbing? im not a expert but isnt tht y? nd also isnt the katana used for stabbing and slahsing?? and also defensive coz it has a flat side>?
the reason the katana has its curve is because when its being heat treated it gets heated to 800 degrees, then gets taken out and plunged into water, the quick temperature change causes the metal to change shape.
no. straight swords can be made in the same way. the quenching process isnt going to warp it.
all cavalry swords are curved. most (if not all) cavalry swords are curved back swords. in Europe we had the saber and in japan the Katana.
Curved back swords are optimized for the slashing motions of fighting from a horse. its very hard to get a knife or sword stuck in a body. katanas had rayskin grips, it wasnt going to get pulled out of your hand by a body offering a little resistance.
yes but no sword was constantly folded and banged out like the samurai katana was. from the constant folding the blade naturally wanted to un fold itself, but it couldent do to the heat. when it was quenched it had more leisure causing it to bend at the back and give it its smooth curve.
the katana is curved because the blade is made of two different types of metals, i think. the metal at the blunt side of the blade contracts/expands faster when cooled/heated.
@TehShadower - the curve is caued by the edge cooling quicker than the rest of the blade as the clay coating is thinner at the edge it cools faster and is harde tan the spine .
Im pretty sure the katana was used a backup weapon, just like in Europe. Battles in early Japanese history were mounted archery and spearmanship focused. Later periods were fought mostly on foot, but they still used polearms and bows more than they did a sword. I read that the reason for the development of the curved blade was so that it was quicker and easier to draw the sword, and they recognized that it made for a more efficient cutting weapon. I dont think horseback had any play in this.
@SouthFloridaBiker Kinda sorta. A katana, like any sword in any culture (asside from a larger sword the German zweihander), was a backup weapon in battle. Spears, naginata, and bows were used as the main weapon. Nodachi was used, but for a short time and even then it wasnt that common. Im not sure about nagamaki or other weapons, but I know a katana was used far more commonly in "peace times" on the street as a self-defense weapon.
I would like to clarify that the samurai were outnumbered by common footsoldiers on the battlefield, as they are after all "noble" class. So the image with thousands of samurai on the battlefield charging into each other with naught but their katana isnt very accurate. Im sure it happened, but other weapons were much more common and even prefered on the battlefield over a sword.
@SouthFloridaBiker First katana were not carried into battle by samurai. Samurai wore tachi into battle. What is today called the katana did not start to be popular until the later 16th century. Second, the blades of nagimaki, yari, and naginata was often made in the same method and to the same quality as a sword blade was....which meant to the best that the customer could afford. Not all Japanese swords were high quality, Quality depended on how much the person commissioning it could afford.
@tanedhyde Well now, they are afterall self-proclaimed "Expertvillage". They have so many short-tutorials on so many things, most of the tutorials suck, and the story isn't much different.
However in their defense I must say there are alot different theories on the history, afterall no one knows for sure what's true these days. :)
Of course what he says in this video is just striving against physics.
The jian while it can cut uses forms that thrust. The dao uses cutting forms.
A straight blade does NOT get stuck when you attack from horseback. Actually we did a little experiment and found that the straight sword is easier to cut from horseback unless you´ve passed your target. I don´t know about you, but I prefer to kill my enemy BEFORE they have ample time to skewer me.
The katana is curved because of the forging technique.
If we were to take our time to analyze everything that's wrong or just plain sucks on Expertvillage videos, specially from this individual, we would waste our lives.
Yeeaahh they didn't just decide to curve the blade, the molecular structure of the steel when it's cooled quickly on the edge is more crystalline than the softer steel in the spine. The more rigid structure at the edge forces a curve. it doesn't even happen until they quench the sword. The first time it happened, it was most likely a surprise that happens to produce a superior cutting blade. sigh.
ThisIsJefficus 1 month ago
Contrary to a popular belief, there is no such thing as "HACKING sword"!
No sword can "hack" by design, this feature is best represented by an axe. The shape and mass distibution of any sword is fundamentally different from any axe, if you try to use it like an axe - very little effect will be achieved. Straight sword, if used with a special "drawback cutting technique" perform just like curved ones, it's all about technique.
The notion of a "hacking sword" comes from modern movies.
Protherium 1 month ago
Correct that the Japanese sword was patterned after the Chinese Dao and not he Jian. This is why the Japanese sword has a single edge. The early Japanese sword did not have it's distinctive curve, only after perfecting the smithing process to have a flexible but hard blade did the Japanese sword get it's curve.
I don't know where this guy gets his martial history but he keeps botching it. He already did it to Filipino Kali.
Whoever gave him his instructor's certificate must be in hiding now.
paWikangbaHi 3 months ago
not a hacking weapoin. ment for tendon slices and muscle scaloping
mackx1066 4 months ago
Im pretty sure it actually originated from a Chinese Dao, not a Jian, and hacking? It was not a hacking weapon.
Gothic238 4 months ago in playlist How to fight with a Katana
... Is this guy serious?
Rasian07 6 months ago
@Rasian07 i fucking hope not
dragon2060 6 months ago
139 also don't know shit XD
Sadoos 7 months ago
this guys an idiot straight sword was used for thrusting and slicing as mentioned by kenz0r1337 plus he didn't even mention the important history of the sword which relates to the samurai and his spiritual connection with his katana
acaciacstrain101 7 months ago
=.= get your facts right please
Flagnagan 7 months ago
lol dont learn from expertvillage
juggalo4life505420 7 months ago 10
"the first origins of the katana" as opposed to the second or third origins of it. Rednecks
GhostXDog 8 months ago
PARA DE FAZER VIDEO DO QUE VOCE NAO SABE PORRA, namoral me da aguinia ver explicações tao superficiais sobre essas armas. Idiota se acha o maximo mais nao sabe de porra niuma. Não e formado em porra niuma e fica ai falando de armas que voce nunca usou de verdade para treino.
VA SE FUDER
joaolobo2 10 months ago
Cool not only does he not know how to use a katana, he also doesn't know how to use a straight sword.
Xiox047 10 months ago
I love it when White boys with extremely short hair give us history lessons about Asian history LOL you probably never even BEEN to Japan but he is telling us how they came about, how to use em.. cause they (use em in their dojo) nigger you're DOJO ISNT SHIT compared to the real thing. your just a white kid playing with a cheap knock off sword.
SatansMullet 10 months ago
Nothing is better than Polish Hussar sabre. Look on this samples below, any other white weapon is not so quick as sabre and fore sure any sword even Japanese katana. See yourself how quick polish hussar sabre is. Any Japanese fencer wouldn’t have a chance with master of polish hussar sabre.
/watch?v=oo0z_R59P8M
/watch?v=LzHYqehsAYA
/watch?v=pHP4pSQvbxk
This are fencer from Polish Sabre Society in Warsaw
GregorMar 11 months ago
@GregorMar I can fight faster than those videos on a 2 handed 3lb Japanese katana, have you ever used one? Depends more on the swordsman that the sword itself. The katana is also a stronger material, and there are lighter weapons believe it or not than the hussar sabre, although not as effective if you ask me. The advantage I can see with a hussar sabre is that its one handed and comfortable unlike the spanish longsword which is incredibly unpractical
.
pwnyomoma 10 months ago
@pwnyomoma How fast is sword or sabre depends also from shape of blade, usual sword is not so fast as sabre. Wait a minute... Katana is also stronger material Why? Who told You such nonsense? Is just myth! Polish hussar sabres were made from Swedish iron and steel which is the best on all the world. Do you know what was the state military test for sabres used in army in 1930's?
Sabre had to cut five 0,5 centimeter steel rods and stab through 2 mm sheet metal when it was relies from 2 meter high.
GregorMar 10 months ago
@GregorMar nono wait, I didnt mean better material, since materials varie, you know like L6 banite and tamahagane for example, I meant structure, but hence the hussar is a sabre and not a katana sword, like comparing a glaive to a spear, well thats just how I see it since Im more of a 2 handed white weapon fighter. And yea I do own one tho I cant tell you if its 100% real since it was a gift.
pwnyomoma 10 months ago
@pwnyomoma So you are fan of 2 handed white weapons. But you know if during some fight your oponent will wound your arm then your fighting abilities will decrase, and if you use one hand white weapon then you my use two sabres in right and left hand and then you are twice more deadly. If you will have opportunity you should try real Polish hussar sabre from 1600’s, but it made only in Poland and good sabre cost at least 600 - 1000 $ will send you some photos on PM.
GregorMar 10 months ago
@GregorMar Thanks, I 100% agree with you there, infact it has happened to me multiple times(with wooden swords). I will see if I can get myself a real one altho I dont espect it to be cheap ofcourse. Also thanks for the links.
pwnyomoma 10 months ago
@pwnyomoma As to real one then you can get it only in Poland coz bcoz of history this sabre is not so well known as katana. You know between 1410-1700 Poland was the biggest and most powerful country in Europe, which was almost conquered all Russia but after 18th century in result of many wars it felt into decline and was divide into three parts between Russia, Germany and Austria (Austro-Hungary) and many Poles fought for independent of USA but world forgot about famous Polish history.
GregorMar 10 months ago
@GregorMar We cant afford to forget these kind of things, I wonder why I didnt hear about this before, wonder how it woulda been if Poland didnt fall into decline.
pwnyomoma 10 months ago
@pwnyomoma Yes I know coz in USA everyone heard about small wars in England or France coz Hollywood made movies about this but almost no one heard about battle of Grunwald in 1410 which was the biggest medival cavalry battle in which only on one side was 35 thousand heavy cavalry and together more than 65 thousand knights in heavy armors. There is no comparison with any battle in England or France. Here we had many wars and bcoz of that at least Poland felt into decline :-( and during 123 years
GregorMar 10 months ago
@pwnyomoma Poland wasn't on European maps. And For sure You didn't heard about battle of Wizna in September 1939 where 720 polish solders for 3 days stop 42 THOUSAND German solder 19th Freikorps commanded by Heinz Guderian with 350 tanks and 657 mortars, guns and grenade launchers and of course massive air support, almost no one knows that Poles brake enigma code and gave two Enigma machines to England and so one... this is not only history from 1600's but even later ehhh... What to do...
GregorMar 10 months ago
@pwnyomoma But if you ask me how would be if Poland didn't fall into decline then I must tell You that all history since 1600's would like different for example there wouldn't be Germany and there wouldn't be Russia coz in Russians lose all wars that they have with Poland to destroy Poland they need to have pact with Germans and they had it in 1700's and the same they had in 1939. If You are curious then may be you should read about Polish history even in Wikipedia it is written a bit in English
GregorMar 10 months ago
@GregorMar you get your info from Wikipedia?
Acrazedpyro 8 months ago
@Acrazedpyro Which info? I'm historian and politologist (political science). I don't know how you get your knowledge from, may be from movies, wikipedia or from cartoons, but I get mine from schools, my history and political science studies and books and practical knowledge of blades as swords and sabres also from my personal experience coz I fencing in historic society in my place.
GregorMar 8 months ago
@GregorMar well, mr. "politologist," thank you for showing me your intelligence and level of propriety. also, thanks for assuming i get MY knowledge from movies and cartoons. : )
i simply asked if you get your information from wiki because of YOUR statement: " If You are curious then may be you should read about Polish history even in Wikipedia it is written a bit in English" (GregorMar). you suggested to someone they should read wiki. nonetheless, i applaud you for trying to educate yourself
Acrazedpyro 8 months ago
@Acrazedpyro No my dear friend I don't think you are stupid but for sure you dont know history of Poland very well and I know for sure that you didn't read many books about Poland and its history. And it may be even difficult to get them in your place that is why I wrote you that if you can't read this in books then at least you may read this in English in wikipedia coz there is written a bit. Not everything but at least something. I can give you several books in Polish but how you will read it?
GregorMar 8 months ago
@GregorMar good gregor, you are taking this too far. i had a simple question...one simple question. you could have simply said, "no."
instead, you identify yourself as a historian/politologist, you insult me, and you tell me how you gain knowledge. wise gregor, you told someone to look up something in wiki. wiki is not a reliable source, hence the reason universities do not allow it to be used as a reference. i thought that, you, being a historian, would understand. good day sir.
Acrazedpyro 8 months ago
@Acrazedpyro OK then what do you want? You want to tell me that you know polish history well? Or that you can know everything? So did you heard about battle of Wizna in 1939, did you heard about battle of Warsaw in 1921, battle of Vienna 1683, Battle of Khotyn 1621, Battle of Klushino 1610 after which Poland rule in Russia, battle of Grunwald 1410 and many other? You know everything about noble democracy and constitution called Articuli Henriciani from 1573 if yes then OK good to you!
GregorMar 8 months ago
@GregorMar lol...for anyone else who reads this thread...
why is this kid talking about poland to me??
poland invaded warsaw in 1846 before becoming an island and establishing polish as an adjacent factor to the quantum mechanics of your left eye. the battle of Auschwitz was fought for many years by the poland rangers before coming to a complete blitz of hungary. scholars debate if bolivia was present for the remainder of the years just before 1711 when poland seceded from the union
Acrazedpyro 8 months ago
@Acrazedpyro I see you don't feel well... And may be you should read first about orthography in wikipedia, English is not my native language and I can't make many mistakes but you should know that name of country should be written with big letter. So Poland not poland OK kid? As to everything else I see that there is no sense to talk with you.
GregorMar 8 months ago
@GregorMar lol...there you go using wiki as a reference...i tried being civil, never insulted you, tried joking and you missed all of it. i wish you the best!
Acrazedpyro 8 months ago
@pwnyomoma Especially forgot about great battles and very high fencing skills of Polish nobles and their sabres especially Polish hussar sabre which was one of the best white weapons ever. So I will give you on PM site of very good blacksmith who makes real good sabres for hard fencing.
GregorMar 10 months ago
@pwnyomoma Did you ever have Polish hussar sabre in your hand? It has 85-95 long blade sharp from one side and 1/3 of blade is sharp from another side so you can stab and cut and slash in every position, weight is 0,7-0,85 kg and thanks to thumb protection it is much more maneuverable than any other blade.
Unfortunately it is not so well known as katana about which there is many myths and fairly tales. Look:
/watch?v=XLWzH_1eZsc
GregorMar 10 months ago
@GregorMar It defenelly doesnt cut through rocks at the speed of light, but it depends what katana you are talking about, what material, who made it, too many variables, if you cant cut an iron rod without noticeable damage atleast, then its not a real katana, its a manufactured replica. More importantly, although the structure of a sword defenelly can increase speed, a swordsman can train to match or outperform that speed with any weapon, not that I have. Im just a samurai wanabe. lol
pwnyomoma 10 months ago
@pwnyomoma But yet one thing as to sabres, you must know end every real fencing master will affirm this, but only with sabre you can make all spectrum of attacks and defenses movements which are not possible for 2 handed weapons.
GregorMar 10 months ago
@GregorMar You mean kinda like how kali fighting style? The freedom of attack is practically endless.
pwnyomoma 10 months ago
@GregorMar One more thing tho, how heavy is a real Polish hussar? Mine weights the same as my katana but then again Im not sure if its real or not, mine's handle is different, infact im questioning if I actually own a Polish hussar now looking at these pictures. lol
pwnyomoma 10 months ago
@pwnyomoma Good blacksmith makes sabres under fencer so length and weight depend on fencer and his hight and preferences but usually blade has 83/85 - 93/95 cm long and weight between 0,66 - 0,97 kilogram but usually it is 0,80 - 0,85 kg. I will show you pictures of few polish hussar sabres that belonged to Polish kings and were used in great battle of Vienna where 15.000 Polish cavalry destroyed in dust 140.000 Turks (islamist).
GregorMar 10 months ago
@GregorMar I also find the hussar sabre to be far more comfortable than a short one-handed katana, coming from someone who isn't experienced with one handed swords I found it quite natural to use.
pwnyomoma 10 months ago
This is a fucking retard. He doesn't even know what the chinese sword is called.
Its a fucking Jian you fucktard
SparadicMathematic 11 months ago
Why does YouTube INSIST that I would lie this?!
MobiusCoin 11 months ago
"more of a hacking weapon" You're joking right?
Geersart 11 months ago
"recently"being world war II :)
the horse thing is bullshit
It's curved because they found it broke less if it was curved. Same reason it's a double riveted full tang design. Simple, right?
'"even today we practice the japanese Katana"
Haha
lnoagkois 1 year ago
What a joke. Expert village, please stop supporting this idiot.
What a joke. Expert village, please stop supporting this idiot.
What a joke. Expert village, please stop supporting this idiot.
What a joke. Expert village, please stop supporting this idiot.
What a joke. Expert village, please stop supporting this idiot.
edwood777 1 year ago
there's a chinese curved sword that looks exactly like the katana...
MasterMaxD 1 year ago
@MasterMaxD katana was just a type of sword used in Tang Dynasty which was abandoned in China later on due to its inconvenience in fights(for the situations of China),then it was adopted and refined by the Japanese.
aviationyu 7 months ago
This guy radiates stupidity. Where the hell is your tsuba? If you are going to attempt to make an "educational video" and fail at it the least you can do is have your katana in it's proper state.
WKIYLMAT 1 year ago
ZOMG HACKERS
SuperDeamon666 1 year ago
The straight sword is not a hacking weapon....this guy has no clue what he is talking about. Even in Chinese swordsmanship when you cut with the blade of the sword there is a "drawing" motion to facilitate the cut. Only untrained or unskilled wielders would ever "hack" with a straight sword. The lack of weight would make such an endeavor both wasteful and damaging to the weapon.
dflynchimp 1 year ago 15
@dflynchimp wow ur a super duper samurai u put up a "learning vid if u no so much bout the katanas instead of looking it up
jonathankundinger 6 months ago
And that's why I consider Japanese History to be the most interesting.. besides Native American History
DesertDragon96 1 year ago
Hey Bro.Treys,
As a follower of Jesus, AND a martial artist, my chief concern is the quality of the information I dispense. Read Toshishiro Obata's books.
Please, understand my spirit in this, you do not hold or handle that blade like one who knows what they are doing. Please look into Toyama Ryu BattoJutsu/Iaido, and stop handling that blade like a butter knife. Also, put the Tsuba back on your Katana.
Sorry, if I offend, but "faithful are the wounds of a friend." Proverbs 27:6
KnightsofTrueNorth 1 year ago
@cvbpo
Actually the Tachi was the immediate predecessor of the katana, and it WAS used from horseback in the more warlike period of Japan's history. It wasn't until later with the advent of the Emperor, and the Shogunate that things calmed down. At which time the Tachi's curve was straightened somewhat, and the sword started to be worn edge up, by Samurai on foot, who basically became more of a police force.
KnightsofTrueNorth 1 year ago
@KnightsofTrueNorth
according to most professors of japanese history there's absolutely no evidence of it being a sword for horseback use
cvbpo 1 year ago
@cvbpo
Very true, because that is a tachi, which is even more curved and a onehanded sword. Very different to use then a katana too.
Thonero 1 year ago
@Thonero iam not tring to say that the tachi or katana was never used on hores back , but they was never made for horse back , swords was used on hores back but very realy use for that fact that the bow and arrow or the spear was far better and easy to use,
swords was made for ground battle, this is found in every culture, but seeing an guy on hore back with an tachi in hand is cool looking
cvbpo 1 year ago
@cvbpo
You are mistaken, although the Bow did at cetain time tend to be used more, the sword was in fact used from horse back by design, and at that time was called a TACHI, the katana came later. You cite Jap. prof., but I wonder ... are they prof. who happen to be Japanese, or is their specialty actually in Japanese history?
Consult T. Obata on the subject, or any number of videos available on YouTube.
Just cuz Treys is wrong, on much doesn't make you right on anything in particular.
KnightsofTrueNorth 1 year ago
@KnightsofTrueNorth tachi was secondary weapon for foot soldiers, the number of mounted samurai was very small. alex takeuchi and karl friday are two professors who discuss this not made for hourse back but could have been use if needed
cvbpo 1 year ago
Hi I'm Trey Tews and welcome to another episode of shit I just made up!
nhaluta 1 year ago
HACK! the Japanese sword is not an ax it is a 4 ft razor blade, it makes precise cuts you don't wield it like an ax unless you're completely ignorant on how to use it! They did not put a curve in of purpose you are making all this bs up! The blade naturally curves in the manufacturing process. the softer steel on the back of the blade contracts more than the hardened steel on the edge while the metal cools and the blade curves.
nhaluta 1 year ago
@nhaluta
Actually, if you read Toshishiro Obata's books on the katana (Naked Blade, and Crimson Steel, which feature Toyama Ryu Batto Jutsu) you find out that prior to 800 A.D. the Japanese sword WAS straight, and double edged. So, you've described the method of making the katana, NOT the reason for the shape of the sword.
Remember China, had BOTH curved and straight swords, so it's not like the Japanese just made due with how the swords popped out of the forge, it was a conscious choice.
KnightsofTrueNorth 1 year ago
@KnightsofTrueNorth It is hard to believe Toshishro Obata would state that the curve of the blade was the conscious choice over a very hardened cutting edge with a softer more flexible steel core and back to reduce breakage. Perhaps you misunderstood what you have read in those two books I don't know because I have not read either one. Maybe in the future I will look into them at the present I am a student of Katori Shinto Ryu, Japans oldest existing martial art not the newer styles of Obata.
nhaluta 1 year ago
@nhaluta
Think about it, China had both curved, and straight blades by design, and choice. Also, swords in Japan (I refer here to the ken) were straight prior to 800 A.D. So, Sir, with respect, either you are mistaken, or my own very noteworthy sources are wrong.
Obata did not create a style, he follows a style created by the Emperor's counsel on the subject prior to WWII... what came out as a result was Toyama Ryu Batto Jutsu / Iaido. Masters from many styles were consulted for this.
KnightsofTrueNorth 1 year ago
@KnightsofTrueNorth Respectfully this has gone on long enough please educate yourself a little more. Obata has created his own style based on his interpretation of the sword arts he has learned, he calls it Shinkendo and he is referred to as its founder. When the Samuari class was eliminated much of the different arts or "styles" were lost. The only that remained intact was the grandfather of all japanese sword arts Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto Ryu of which I am currently a student.
nhaluta 1 year ago
@nhaluta "this has gone on long enough?" check your tone. You are not dealing with a child. If Obata has developed a style since writing his books on his original style of Toyama Ryu Iaido, that hardly negates the factual statements of THOSE books on the history of the Japanese blade. Your evasion of the facts has NOT helped your argument. Also, I note you do not address the photographic evidence I cited previously. Nor have you consider the impact of coextant straight, & curved blades.
KnightsofTrueNorth 1 year ago
@KnightsofTrueNorth I am not dealing with a child I am dealing with a mind not much in advance of a child's. It was you that listed Obata's background, It was you that claimed incorrectly that he has not developed his own style. Again the reasons you and the fool in the video offer for the curving of swords are nothing but preposterous assumptions. And again I cannot address the pictures you have seen and I have not. This has gone on long enough any response is futile your illness is obvious.
nhaluta 1 year ago
@nhaluta
Yes I mentioned Obata's background, but it was you who tried to use his recent accomplishments as an excuse to dismiss his previous statements. By the way did you read the article I sent you, and understand the the sources for THAT information. NO, probably not, else you would continue this thinly veiled ego trip of yours. I do not, and have not defended the guy in the video, actually if you read, I've had my own criticisms of him. Have fun with your assumed superiority. Osu!
KnightsofTrueNorth 1 year ago
@nhaluta Just a note (way up here, since things devolved further along), the change to a curved sword WAS a choice as opposed to an accident. The vast majority of swords in Japan, even blades of kofun times, were differentially hardened. The use of clay for differential hardening has been around since over 100 years BC, and composite blades made for hard edges and soft backs have been around for even longer. I can provide images and studies to support this if needed.
Hyoujinsama 1 year ago
@Hyoujinsama What is your point? Yes many cultures have had curved swords, big fucking deal! The katana develops it's slight curvature from the heat treating process, by stating this very fact the intellectually deficient knightsoftruenorth thinks I'm calling it an accident. Are you just as fucking retarded as he is? Do believe that the Tachi sword was curved just so the sword wouldn't stick in the bodies that the horseman was chopping as he rode by like the moron in the video stated?
nhaluta 1 year ago
@nhaluta Woah, woah, woah. Take a cold shower and have a few breaths. I understand how the heat treatment causes curvature. I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying.
Even kofun chokuto had the same heat treatment. They were straight. Are we still on the same page here?
The curved sword is simply a change in design to better facilitate the type of cut motion utilized on certain battlefields at that point in time.
Hyoujinsama 1 year ago
@Hyoujinsama Dude the Chokuto predates differential heat treatment process which by the way causes the Katana to curve. Yes it is an engineering change in the development of the swords not only for needs of technique but the materials it was used against. As the samurai armor changed so did his weapons and technique. For example the Maki-Uchi is a type of cut developed for power while avoiding the helmet.
The swords curvature was not to prevent it from sticking in bodies that is preposterous.
nhaluta 1 year ago
@nhaluta First off, I never said anything about swords sticking in bodies. The method of cutting takes care of that, not the blade itself.
About differential hardening, that is VERY untrue. The mass shift to the curved sword happened towards the end of Heian. Differential hardening with clay, as I said before, has been around since before 100 BC.
Would you like to see historic examples of jokoto swords that show OBVIOUS signs of differential hardening?
Hyoujinsama 1 year ago
@Hyoujinsama First off the ass clown in the video says that the Japanese curved their swords so they wouldn't get stuck in the bodies they were hacking while they rode by on horseback. My initial comment on this video was to call him an idiot spreading ignorance. But Knightsoftruenorth did not like that started a dialog and put words in my mouth, personally I think the guy in the video's baby face gave him a stiffy and he did not like me making fun of him.
nhaluta 1 year ago
@Hyoujinsama Differential hardening has been around a long time I would love to see some jokoto or chokuto with the same metallurgy as a more modern Katana. Since the development of metal smelting, materials and forges as well as the forging process changed dramatically from that period to the Katana I think it would be a fucking amazing time traveling artifact worth million$. Different materials respond differently to their process of manufacture and deferential hardening.
nhaluta 1 year ago
@nhaluta Wow. Again, breathe.
Youtube doesn't allow links, so I I'll make a video to show you. Photographic proof, showing jokoto swords polished using traditional methods. jokoto swords that display hada AND hamon.
Diff. hardening has been around for much longer than the curved tachi, and laminated steel even more so. Aside from shaping and finer points of forging/heat-treating, the katana and chokuto are very similar. The materials/techniques did not change as much as you seem to think.
Hyoujinsama 1 year ago
@nhaluta "I would love to see some jokoto or chokuto with the same metallurgy as a more modern Katana. Since the development of metal smelting, materials and forges as well as the forging process changed dramatically from that period to the Katana I think it would be a fucking amazing time traveling artifact worth million$."
watch?v=8cN_Zo6AIMc
Here ya go. Time traveling artifacts.
Hyoujinsama 1 year ago
@nhaluta
With respect, Obata shows photographs of the straight ken, prior to 800 A.D., so there is no mistake.
The notion of the cruved blade being an "accident" of it's creation appeals to myth makers, and story tellers, but doesn't match the history of sword making at all, not in the Far East nor anywhere else in the world.
This is a classic example of where myth has been mistaken for history.
KnightsofTrueNorth 1 year ago
@KnightsofTrueNorth With respect I have seen pictures of straight swords before, in one of my Shihan's books his family is one of the licensed sword-smiths in Japan. I never claimed that the curving of the blade was an accident. The Katana's blade is straight until it is quickly cooled in water. Do not confuse the Katana with the Tachi the way this poor fool in the video has. His knowledge of japanese history is as preposterous as his skills.
nhaluta 1 year ago
@nhaluta First you argue Obata, never made such statements, and NOW you say he's wrong because he has (as a result of his long career, and study) developed his own style, thereby attempting to impune his statements prior to creating his own style. I perceive you do not wish to concede as authoritative, any view point except your own. You DO need the ego killing study of the sword. Osu!
KnightsofTrueNorth 1 year ago
@KnightsofTrueNorth Again you are putting words in my mouth I never argued any statements that Obata may or may not have made. In the beginning I said I have never read his books and at the present I have no interest too because I am involved in an older Japanese martial art than anything that Obata himself has studied, again perhaps in the future I will look into them. The only statements I impugn are yours and the fool in the video who believes swords are curved to avoid sticking in bodies.
nhaluta 1 year ago
@nhaluta
The record of this conversation satisfys me completely. I think the reason you are so dismissive of
Toyama Ryu (which HAS distinguished itself in relatively recent service), is because your own antique style was not included as a contributor. Hmmm, one must wonder why? Let's see ... Muso Eishin Jikiden, Yagyu
Shinkage, Nakamura Ryu, nope, no, KATORI SHINTO RYU ... now tell me, what service have you given your style by your self serving ego trip? Be sure and tell your Sensei.
KnightsofTrueNorth 1 year ago
@KnightsofTrueNorth Thats right you got me I am so unimpressed about the sword art that you happened to read a book about is because of my ego and because my antique art of Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto Ryu is not listed as being a contributor to Toyama Ryu. Never mind the fact that the incomplete descendant art forms of Katori: Nakamura-ryū, Meifu Shinkage-ryū, Shintō Musō-ryū, Yagyū Shinkage-ryū just so happen to be the contributing art forms mean nothing at all.
Your ignorance amuses me
nhaluta 1 year ago
@nhaluta
Good. I'm glad you're amused... that's all that matters.
But since we don't really know what your source of information is, nor can we prove your sources are 1st person authoritative statements, all this conversation could be, is amusing.
Good luck with your training.
KnightsofTrueNorth 1 year ago
hacking weapon?!
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
MrDenarp 1 year ago
Yeh the histroy of your fingures.
billterm77 1 year ago
Although Chinese swords can be used to hack but they are not frequently used for that purpose. They have sabers for that purpose.
bigfatfoot 1 year ago
this should be the second video
templarsforever 1 year ago
trace tew man you're the worst
YuriGee718 1 year ago
i love ur youtube videos there awesone
jimsim1001 1 year ago
The sword Treys is handling has a fake hamon and he completely forget about the Korean how developed the sori, the fuchi, the kashiri, the tsuka and the tsuba btw he is using a type of tsuba ment for tantos so yes he is brain dead
NumeralKillerlive 1 year ago
Very good short explination. Kudos to you
Toophless1 1 year ago
its a sword and it came from japan....now everyone shut up and appreciate the blade
matthinew182 1 year ago
@expertvillage calling me a jackass? look at ur own video u didnt even make them for christ sakes ehow is so much better
tstarkisironman 1 year ago
the first japanese swords were straight but after the mongol's atempts to invade the katana was made, then it took a curved form over time
thethridcondor 1 year ago
this video would be alot cooler if I could see anything but the text across the screen.
Firewraithe1 1 year ago
he has a LOT of videos...
codymeful 1 year ago
still makes me laugh how ppl r sucker for these ineffective, ego driven martial art.
fardisghomeshi 1 year ago
not sure where you got your information from but you should do some research of your own and see for yourself what the truth of the matter really is.. they curved the blade because it has a much less contact point than a straight sword and therefore it's able to cut smoother with less effort. you also completely left out Korea's part in Japan's history just like many other ignorant people do. Never follow blindly, be sure of what you think to be true.
jylp4u 1 year ago
The term 'katana' applies to any single-edged-sword. So how can a two-edged-sword be the origin of 'katana'. What you mean is that the Chinese sword was the origin to japanese swords.
kenz0r1337 1 year ago
@kenz0r1337 Katana is the japanese word for 'sword'. It's merely used mostly to describe the japanese sword. In the history of japan like the samurai, they would call it a sword...which in their language would come to ears as 'katana'...why don't you learn the language before you learn about the culture?
MasterMaxD 1 year ago
@MasterMaxD 'Katana' doesn't mean 'sword', it's a reference to a type of sword. Just like 'wakizashi' is. In other words, 'katana' is not the Japanese word for 'sword'. Now 'yaiba' is the correct word for 'sword' in Japanese. You wouldn't say that 'two-hander' or 'broadsword' is the word for 'sword' in English, do you? 'Sword' is 'sword' in English, and 'yaiba' is 'sword' in Japanese. Words like 'two-hander', 'broadsword', 'katana', 'wakizashi', 'chokutou' are just types of swords. Noob.
kenz0r1337 1 year ago 11
@kenz0r1337 刀 simply means sword or knife & can be pronounced in Japanese as katana, as well as chi or to (pronunciation is dependent on context & grammar usage). Other words can also mean sword such as ken (剣). Yes, there are names for specific sword types such as daito (big sword, 大刀) & shoto (small sword, 小刀 ). These same types can be referred to as tachi (太刀 & kodachi (小太刀) too. Lastly, the meanings of the words can also differ depending on the historical time period or ryu (school).
tomurso 1 year ago
@tomurso Thanks :) You rock.
kenz0r1337 1 year ago
@kenz0r1337 Actually Katana translated to English is Long Sword
xRFGSxFullmetal 9 months ago
@kenz0r1337
I was told that "shin ken" is also the a japanese pronounciation of sword.
ExtremeDeathman 7 months ago
@ExtremeDeathman The term "Shinken" is used to describe a modern made sword using traditional (Japanese) forging techniques.
george385 7 months ago
@george385
Ah thx for the clearance...
ExtremeDeathman 7 months ago
In the Tres-Tew-won style, made up by my main man he teaches here how early swords were used by foot soldiers for foot fighting and things like that. You could swing it that way, or that way. That's great information, thanks. He teaches everything 3-2-1.
jakexou812 1 year ago
Its from a Chinese Dao, Tang Dao(唐刀) actually, which was created in the Tang Dynasty. The Tang Dao is straight like a straight sword but one edged. But definitely not from the straight sword you were holding. The one you were holding suppose to be created a long long time after in the Qing Dynasty. Swords in the Tang dynasty and before were more thick, heavy, and strong.
TheRustingSword 1 year ago 2
I am not a swordsmith/am recollecting this from memory.
The curve comes from differential tempering.
By coating the spine of the katana with clay (thus insulating the spine from rapidly cooling) when the sword is heated then rapidly cooled via water, the spine does not cool or expand as fast as the harder HRC and faster expanding expanding edge. Since the edge is harder then the spine, the spine has no choice but to bend as it is softer.. This creates the sori, or the curve of the blade.
AsAnAtheistFilms 1 year ago 2
@AsAnAtheistFilms
Number 2, the katana did not come from the Chinese straight sword last I checked.
Number 3 the PRIMARY weapon when on horseback for the samurai was the bow (yami I believe it was called) and arrow. Even on the ground the prefered weapon was the yari or naginata and the bow and arrow. The katana was often used as S.O.L (google it :P) weapon.
AsAnAtheistFilms 1 year ago
@AsAnAtheistFilms Actually yes the katana came from the Chinese & Korean straight sword. I actually own a kissaki moroha zukuri style sword, which has been called the "Grandfather of the katana", being an evolutionary step between Ken & tachi. The Kogarasu Maru made during the either the early Heian period (794 to 1185 AD) or late Nara period (710 to 794 AD), by the famous Japanese swordsmith Amakuni, who is said to have created the first curved Japanese sword.
illyounotme 1 year ago 14
Amakuni (天國) is the legendary swordsmith who created the first single-edged longsword (tachi) with curvature along the edge in the Yamato Province around 700 AD. He was the head of a group of swordsmiths employed by the Emperor of Japan to make weapons for his warriors. His son, Amakura, was the successor to his work. Although there are almost no modern examples of signed works by Amakuni, legend has it that the double-edged katana, Kogarasu Maru, was forged by this man.
illyounotme 1 year ago 3
@illyounotme
This has been disputed before, where it has been found that the katana did not come from the chinese or korean straight sword. There are collections of a japanese straight sword until the katana's were banned during the Meiji Restoration era, this is of course quite "recent" 1860's. They started using straight swords concealed in walking sticks like your kissaki moroha zukuri style sword..
AsAnAtheistFilms 1 year ago
@illyounotme
Also the sword you proposed Kogarasu Maru is rumored to have been made by Amakuni but it is not definitive. Even so, it is very difficult to say if the Chinese did indeed influence the Japanese katana.
AsAnAtheistFilms 1 year ago
@AsAnAtheistFilms Really it has? Seems you travel in very uneducated circles then. The sword techniques that spawned the katana came from China and Korea, in fact a large amount of the Japanese blades, are Japanese only because they were made there by Chinese & Korean sword smiths brought to Japan to make swords. This is the true story behind the katana. It is just hard for Japanese to admit they got their sword from someone else. BTW Ken to tachi to katana is the evolution.
illyounotme 1 year ago
@AsAnAtheistFilms The chokutō (直刀, "straight sword") is a type of Japanese sword that dates back to pre-Heian times. Chokutō were made in later periods, but usually as temple offering swords. Chokutō were straight and single-edged (sometimes partially double) hacking swords. That chokutō's design was originally imported to Japan from China, though seemingly most often through Korea. It is based on the archetypal Han Dynasty long straight iron sword with a ring pommel.
illyounotme 1 year ago
@illyounotme
Gotcha I get it a bit more, however information does appear to be quite.. sparse regarding the subject of the Japanese katana.. Some sources state chokuto were prior to clay making (Amakuni~ era), others state chokuto were made as gifts to temples more then battle. I will research this further, as this is quite interesting, thank you for the education!
AsAnAtheistFilms 1 year ago
your a tool
0ceans13 1 year ago
in responding to you saying that no swords were banged out quite like a katana. this isnt true. during their golden age arabic and islamic civilizations had a long history of folding steel. damascus steel was often folded and has a beautiful pattern because of it
clockworkdreams 1 year ago
The curve is actually made by the metals forming. A traditional Katana is made out of 3 different metals and when the metals are combined together the form the curve if they're combined right.
Airsoftreviewsfyi 1 year ago
thats wrong...... the Japan Katana Come from the Chinies Dao (Sabre) not from the Jian (Straight Sword)
NassemAir 1 year ago
I noticed that a lot of people on here like to criticize this instructor-guy for not knowing anything about the history of the katana? Can anyone who's shredding into this guy with such harsh words actually give an accurate account? I mean: Sure, he's wrong. But do you know why he's wrong, or are you just saying that shit about him for a quick ego-boost?
Spectermonkey 1 year ago
@Spectermonkey The Chinese straight sword was the first type of sword brought into Japan. It was used in China mainly as a thrusting weapon although it could cut also, but its main purpose was thrusting. During the Heian period the tachi was developed in Japan which had a deep curve and was worn hung edge down. What we now call a katana did not start being popular until the late 16th century and was not the standard sword until the Edo period. Very very quick history due to limited space.
scottrekishika 1 year ago 10
@scottrekishika
Good to see someone knows shit about shit with the katana.
You've unilaterally appeased my critical nature as a guy, but proved a lot of these "internet masters" wrong, criticizing this guy for being completely wrong. He's not completely right; but not completely wrong. Funny.
Spectermonkey 1 year ago
@Spectermonkey Yeah he is not completely wrong, just mostly wrong. There are little bits of accuracy here and there, but it is obvious that he never really learned from someone that knows about swords. And if you watch more of his videos you clearly see that they didn't know much about Japanese swordsmanship either.
scottrekishika 1 year ago
I started practicing Niten Ichi Ryu about 3-4 months ago. Also I've studied swords throughout history for 7 years along with techniques for multiple weapons, and practicing by sparring with many different styles and weapons. Ahem anyways, at my novice level of knoweledge I still know that this is all wrong.
Jackoffpuppies 1 year ago
@Jackoffpuppies Correction not all wrong mostly wrong... XD
Jackoffpuppies 1 year ago
ughhh im tired of bullshit dojos here in america i just want to learn actual kenjutsu or iado from an actual master of the art and not some douchebag...i wonder if they accept american students in japan? i may be an amateur but even i know bullshit when i see it and expert village is full of it.
blackninja789 1 year ago
@blackninja789 there are many Koryu (older traditions) that are starting to accept foreign students in Japan now. a few years back Katori Shinto-Ryu began opening up, also Shinkage-Ryu...
kumogakuredojo 1 year ago
First where de hell is your tsuba on your iato and everything you told was a load of bullshit.
TheShogun94 1 year ago
Pet peeve of mine: calling something a katana sword. Katana means SWORD. katana sword EQUALS REDUNDANT
trithan1473 1 year ago
All my Days get your history right you stupid Yank :@ typical American think you know everything when your just ignorant beyond explanation
12wtfdude34 1 year ago
WTF was he talking about!? hahaha!
icecrimson 1 year ago
As a 1st Dan Iaido practitioner, I have to say that this guy really has no idea what he's talking about. Just an inbred hill-billy with a sword. It's embarassing to watch his videos, and yet faintly amusing.
Slypaperclips 1 year ago
Wasnt the straight sword used mainly for stabbing? im not a expert but isnt tht y? nd also isnt the katana used for stabbing and slahsing?? and also defensive coz it has a flat side>?
SamboJabba 1 year ago
yes.
SouthFloridaBiker 1 year ago
Cool video man! I thought it was informative.
greencircle86 2 years ago
the reason the katana has its curve is because when its being heat treated it gets heated to 800 degrees, then gets taken out and plunged into water, the quick temperature change causes the metal to change shape.
TehShadower 2 years ago
no. straight swords can be made in the same way. the quenching process isnt going to warp it.
all cavalry swords are curved. most (if not all) cavalry swords are curved back swords. in Europe we had the saber and in japan the Katana.
Curved back swords are optimized for the slashing motions of fighting from a horse. its very hard to get a knife or sword stuck in a body. katanas had rayskin grips, it wasnt going to get pulled out of your hand by a body offering a little resistance.
clockworkdreams 2 years ago
yes but no sword was constantly folded and banged out like the samurai katana was. from the constant folding the blade naturally wanted to un fold itself, but it couldent do to the heat. when it was quenched it had more leisure causing it to bend at the back and give it its smooth curve.
SouthFloridaBiker 1 year ago
the katana is curved because the blade is made of two different types of metals, i think. the metal at the blunt side of the blade contracts/expands faster when cooled/heated.
lqiyun7 2 years ago
thats not why they mean to do that -_-
pearlfigther 1 year ago
no.
Kernith2 1 year ago
@TehShadower - the curve is caued by the edge cooling quicker than the rest of the blade as the clay coating is thinner at the edge it cools faster and is harde tan the spine .
chisacat 1 year ago
idk why you have a thumbs down on your comment , but your absoulutly right.
SouthFloridaBiker 1 year ago
Im pretty sure the katana was used a backup weapon, just like in Europe. Battles in early Japanese history were mounted archery and spearmanship focused. Later periods were fought mostly on foot, but they still used polearms and bows more than they did a sword. I read that the reason for the development of the curved blade was so that it was quicker and easier to draw the sword, and they recognized that it made for a more efficient cutting weapon. I dont think horseback had any play in this.
LotusDragon09 2 years ago
katana was the only weopon a samurai carried into battle, because it was the only weopon made perfectly the the samurai style .
SouthFloridaBiker 1 year ago
@SouthFloridaBiker Kinda sorta. A katana, like any sword in any culture (asside from a larger sword the German zweihander), was a backup weapon in battle. Spears, naginata, and bows were used as the main weapon. Nodachi was used, but for a short time and even then it wasnt that common. Im not sure about nagamaki or other weapons, but I know a katana was used far more commonly in "peace times" on the street as a self-defense weapon.
LotusDragon09 1 year ago
I would like to clarify that the samurai were outnumbered by common footsoldiers on the battlefield, as they are after all "noble" class. So the image with thousands of samurai on the battlefield charging into each other with naught but their katana isnt very accurate. Im sure it happened, but other weapons were much more common and even prefered on the battlefield over a sword.
LotusDragon09 1 year ago
@SouthFloridaBiker First katana were not carried into battle by samurai. Samurai wore tachi into battle. What is today called the katana did not start to be popular until the later 16th century. Second, the blades of nagimaki, yari, and naginata was often made in the same method and to the same quality as a sword blade was....which meant to the best that the customer could afford. Not all Japanese swords were high quality, Quality depended on how much the person commissioning it could afford.
scottrekishika 1 year ago
hahahahah hacking weapon? some martial artist he is.
noelsoong777 2 years ago
The Chinese straight sword or Jian (jee-in) is not a hacking weapon.
yimingjingren 2 years ago 2
wrong , your overview of the history is just sad!....they made it curved because the sword kept getting stuck? FFS read a book!
tanedhyde 2 years ago
@tanedhyde Well now, they are afterall self-proclaimed "Expertvillage". They have so many short-tutorials on so many things, most of the tutorials suck, and the story isn't much different.
However in their defense I must say there are alot different theories on the history, afterall no one knows for sure what's true these days. :)
Of course what he says in this video is just striving against physics.
13Kegor37 2 years ago
Thank you for the good video...
AlanMolstad 2 years ago
So much wrong...
The jian while it can cut uses forms that thrust. The dao uses cutting forms.
A straight blade does NOT get stuck when you attack from horseback. Actually we did a little experiment and found that the straight sword is easier to cut from horseback unless you´ve passed your target. I don´t know about you, but I prefer to kill my enemy BEFORE they have ample time to skewer me.
The katana is curved because of the forging technique.
ColdNapalm42 2 years ago 2
If we were to take our time to analyze everything that's wrong or just plain sucks on Expertvillage videos, specially from this individual, we would waste our lives.
marcosfenrir 2 years ago
lol the only reason the blade has the curve is due to the forging and cooling process when making the blade.
ChronoCrossKid 2 years ago