@OVERCAPITALIZE What u mean not real? why the hell someone would teach cinematic gunfu?pure wushu isn't good for high mass and muscle,much better is combination with boxing,wing chun and teakwondo.Wusu allows free style and new moves.Pure wushu moves are for small people,lots of movement are useless like most animal style of south shaolin,though north shaolin is like better variant of karate,with hard body train and free style.
@OVERCAPITALIZE It doesnt have to be learned from monks. there are only about 6o monks at shaolin, or there were only 60 when i was there, and only 40 of them were kung fu monks. but there are tens of thousands of shaolin grads teaching all over china. you could learn from any of them.
@kimimarokekegenkai Private lessons at their gym are around 900baht per lesson (around 30USD) Public lessons are around 200 baht each. Go to learnmuaythaichaiya . com for more information if you are really interested in training under him.
@BladeAndStick Muay Boran means any style invented or used before the 1920s when modern muay Thai became a sport and began using a ring, gloves, and rules. it is not regional. chaiya is a specific, codified system, with a prescribed set of movements, which is clearly explained in this and other videos i did on Chaiya.
Its not about being the best right away flancka if you mistake big kicks and large attacks as being "the pro way" your totally wrong, They are sparring with technique so it has to be broken down into effective learning but you would say "beginner/intermediate" because you are the one with the ego and one of those internet nerds who base experience on other peoples video's get out of your house and actually experience something instead of bagging peoples videos. Get a life. Great video btw :)
you know what is hilarious, i tried to write a response to flancka but he enabled friend lock. so he can write rude comments on other people's vuideos but no one can write him back. what a coward!
you dont want to own responsabiloity for your own actions is what you mean. i was just on your channel, did you do any muay chaiya videos? i saw stuff there but it all looked like other people's stuff.
dude i live and practise the arts and as far as taking responsibility for my actions...you lost me. I am not denying that i think you are a know- nothing phony oportunist
yes but you dont want anyone writing to you directly but you want to insult people publicly. so which opportunity did i take advantage of? i am so confused about your apparent anger, profanity and the strength of your insults. did i do something to you?
lets keep it in the PubliC forum so you can explain to the posters how a windbag with no skills takes the liberty to make huge judgemental leaps about fighting arts and fighters you are not qualified to judge nor the right to trade gossip as if it was truth.
@flancka I am curious how i am not qualified. i have been studying martial art and fighting for over 30 years and have spent the last ten years training nearly full time in Asia, across ten countries. If that doesn't qualify me to evaluate martial arts, what would? and does that imply that you trained for 31 years in 11 countries?
"Kru Lek" is a VERY good instructor and I know it to be true since I'm his student. As stated in the video, only individuals with patience, perseverance, and a true dedication to the art of Muay Chaiya will succeed in mastering it. I've met and ran into way too many people who lack the patience to drill out the important basics ! As a result, those particular individuals can't and won't be able to go beyond the limits of modern day sport version of Muay Thai. Oh well, too bad for them...
Cool, no problem. But the thread here veered around in circles. I spoke to many thai people who are involved so I understand. Its politics none the less. I dont personally want to be part of it was my point. As far as fights against known quantities in the open is what I am talking about. and I am glad you agree they havent happened. Thanks for your response.
Also please maybe PM me the link or repost it. Because I not only saw it but I heard about it in thailand. I know what I saw and heard. I also remember a very lengthy thread from people responding to it. Its only recently lek and praeng had fighters because when i asked neither had anyone compete in any major event or against any major figher. Both men have taught i assume for close to two decades and it was another reason I shied away. Please get me the link or the forum link if you can thanks
Yes there was a fight like your describing, about 3 years ago. It was had mainly to sort out a dispute students from the 2 schools where having online. It was a chilled event, with little animosity Kru Lek was there to mediate an make sure it didn't get out of hand.
To be honest, the 'politics' in Muay Chaiya have been made to be a bigger deal than it really is. Most of it is the younger students bickering, so I don't really think about it. Kru Praeng and Kru Lek have their reasons,
Oh, Tae has fought in the ring on several ocassions... the reason why you don't see the fights is that Kru Lek and his students don't like to show footage of more serious fights, as they are being 'graeng jai' for the other fighters. Also, people come to challenge Tae quite regularly, and I've seen plenty of that footage!
There will be more footage coming out in the future, but we have to be careful, as not wanting to fuel the flames of 'politics'.
Its true that you might hit me with being hypercritical but I dont travel half way around the world to get involved in any politics or this or that. Life is too short. You want healthy environments to train in, something my dad also told me to look closely into. I came here to look, watch, listen to people's opinons and i respect each persons views just as i have my my own. I will take another look in the future -I havent ruled anything out as of yet and I keep an open mind as I always do. Ciao!
I dont think my opinon is weird. I have been involved in ma my whole life having trained with my dad and traveled all around the world. I talked to both teachers and saw the classes I went too with my thai friend. I listened to the teachers and i asked them questions. I felt also a strong disrespect toward muay thai which i respect. I asked both teachers if they ever fought, lived in a kai muay or trained muay thai and they did notwhich was an odd commentary and was definitely outputting to me.
the grappling praeng does as well is pretty bad in my opinion so i dont think any foreigners who can learn the real stuff would indulge in that personally or be bothered with it. So theres alot of distortion, internal conflicts and discord in the whole thing on both sides which was my original point, i wouldnt want to be involved and get tangled in anything like that so because we have so much of that in the ma world as you all now on here. I love to at least try the art but i will wait for now
I agree with you on southeast asian grappling, however. MMA fighters from the west or from japan, korea, or philippines would dominate most grapplers or mixed martial arts type fighters in most of southeast asia.
your opinion on chaiya is wierd. you should come out and try it. it is absolutely awesome. and no, there is no distortion in kru lek's camp. he follows exactly the way kru ket taught, which is well documented.
Yes, if you have the link please repost it. I have the dvd and there isnothing i think on there. It was a youtube post with the students fighting. If its the real thing there was also a thread somewhere on a forum about it which was quite lengthy but i cant remember where, if someone can repost the full link and the forum let us know.
Evidently this whole conversation is getting redundant. grappling or the addition would be a suffix to the system long as the original system is in tact, the student i assume could just not do that and concentrate on the pure systems. There also is not the purity one thinks from the original material i was told that from the older masters on either side from either man. My research of course is not that deep outside visiting both schools and talking with the teachers and what i heard from thais
i just checked '"Mai" Muay Thai Chaiya DVD by Kru Preang' it has nothing at all to do with kru lek. it is a kru preang video. please get your facts straight.
Yes, the fight has been on going in thailand between praeng and lek for some time and its not evident to foreigners but the thai people know. I have been told by thai friends to veer aaway from both camps and stick with the older senior masters of chaiya but I have to research that fact. nathan posts on another forum and has for some time.
spiritualbeggers: can you repost that link its didnt come through for me.
It seems they pulled the footage but i saw it with my own two eyes, so its not a lie nor do I have anything to prove by saying it. The thai students know about it, there is bad blood and alot of bad talk on both sides, because i heard it all the time in thailand. Neither is an angel or superior in my opinion.
Honestly i think you are thinking of someone else. you wont find even one single comment on the internet by a kru lek student because he doesnt allow it and nathan and i are the only ones who use youtube. and as for the fight you speak of, it never ever happened. it must be some other muay chaiya teacher. again, nathan, op, tae and i would be the main fighters from kru lek and we never fight kru prangs students
The vid was all over youtube. Many people saw it and there threads on it on the major forums. I know also because i was in thailand at the time. It was pathetic, swinging for the fences things. praeng-lek conflict has been ongoing it seems based on who wants to be king. It was very bad when I was there and it really turned me off. They also heavily criticized muay thai and I didnt buy since none ever spent a minute in a camp or fought in the ring. ask around and someone has the footage
i have been doing martial arts research in asia for 8 years. i can say, without a doubt, thailand is the only country in south east asia which never ever ever had any form of ground fighting. but kru preang has ground fighting in his chaiya. this was something he added later. also kru ket's muay chaiya was published, and it did not include any ground fighting.
BTW, Antonio, are you sure about this Kru Preang-Kru Lek thing? I would have to admit that I am not affiliated with either side, but it seems to me that you've only had one side feed you the information. If indeed Kru Lek and Kru Preang are rivals of any sort it would be difficult to hear good words about each other.
I would have to say that Muay Chaiya is generally stronger than the modern day Muay Thai. The former is a survival technique; you try to kill your opponent as fast as you can (at least that was the original purpose). The latter is a sport, governed by rules, and has techniques for showoff for the crowd to see.
hi antonio! Well i remember seeing footage of leks students vs praengs students in a fight challenge and it was the saddest thing i had ever seen. It kinda turned me off to both teachers so i never joined up but i like the footage and the approaches and try to stay open minded but i hear both schools continually attack and bash one another and muay thai in general which is bad. but i am open minded and continue to be so i am watching and absorbing all thanks for your help. be well
If you have seen a video like that, please send it to me. because i know Kru Lek wouldnt have participated in such a fight. also Kru lek never bashes anyone. Nathan brown and i are the only students of kru lek who even use youtube and neither of us bash anyone or anything.
I think muaychaiya is cool. I think you meant 1900s,warriormaker not 1800s but your point is clear. Muay thai is what it is . I think also fighters in any fighting discipline have real records and a high number like 100-200-300 will have records of draws and losses or its suspect to the core. Chaiaya guys from reading other forums have a chip on their shoulder about being superior to muay thai which is strange because they should both just be there for people to train in and enjoy.
thanks for commenting on my video. about the chaiya guys with a chip on their xchoulder. there are two main tecahers in thaialnd, kru lek and kru preang. kru preang's guys are famous for writing bad things oin the internet. kru lek won't let people train who have a bad attitude and i never had a problem with anyone at kru lek's place.
So i think taken into correct context, you can have fun learning muay chaiya without all the claims and such, but i dont think the comparisons work like i stated unless you have actual fight comps to compare one to the other you have endless conjecture and thats doesnt help anyone. The point is train to be strong, to be healthy, to be mentaly and spiritually aligned. The hyperbole should remain as far from that as possible, thats the best approach. I enjoyed the exchanges and conversations-
I think for the most people dont understand muay thai as from the posts and the vids, so they keep trying to compare apples and oranges. muay thai is a sport and if you want real stuff go into military muay or krabikrabong withthe full ancient system. Bare knuckle stuff has its place when active and alive. So you the choices are yours but let all the overhype fool you, if you fight or know self defense you can easily see the differences.
I think the difference here is that one should not even compare this to muay thai. Muay thai is its own art, he is an active fighting sport, if you want muay thai in realistic context try military muay thai with the combat boots on, weapons, etc, you will get a better understanding of how to use then going with muay chaiiya and spending years on techs for the most part you wont use. Of course its your choice muay chaiya is a full system that takes time. Its just a choice each person has.
ancient styles are viable. I have trained in them but in the context of 300 or so fights, a muay thai fighter documents them in real time. There hasnt been any muay chiaya fighter fight or win any event since the 1800s. It is just a system now with no outlet to fight. I trained with many of muay thai fighters as well and with a 200 fight record it stood at 120-40-40 or something like that, thats a real record. We have to look at things realistically and if you are a fighter you do,
Hey Antonio.......I have a question.........is Muay Chaiya officially your favorite style now? You seem to rave about it. Have you adopted it as your main style now>
I want to say yes, but because i am away all of the time, i dont have the opportunity to keep studying and improving my chaiya. so, standard muay thai and boaktor remain my main styles.
thank you for answering. Bokator and Chaiya seem VERY deep and pratical. Whats so cool about styles like these, is the fact you can learn individual techniques, drills, strategies, and exercises which can be used immediately. Even though im big into Chinese Martial arts, I'll have to agree with the "monkey master" and say that CMA do TOO MUCH form work, and not enough drilling of individual techniques. I was naive to Thai and Khmer arts besides sport MT and Pradel Serey. Thank you Antonio!
good points and totally understood--i wrestled all through high school into college, mat time was ridiculous, dont remember how manymatches but i remember the real comps which was all that mattered. Also orono and the like are exceptions to the muay thai rule these guys fought and fought and orono was still fighting and only recently settled down so these men are not the norm, thais fight alot in the ring and its mostly documented and proven. most end their careers in the 100-150 margin---------
Just wanted to conclude, that what matters is the training and development of the student and the chaiya vid displayed show there is a nice curriculum to develop from. True its the old style which born the new but it has good stuff. i think the arguments are just a matter of how people see fighting and what is a valid fight, nothing more. Tae seems very skilled and nobody seems to argue that. I think though there is no right or wrong here.
I think also theres two sides to this, my brother who is an active judoka has tons of mat matches but he never refers to them as anything other than that if he ever does, he competes and counts that because it is active open competition in a real environment, so one can understand its a matter of perception. The muay thai fighters who are active build toward 100 fights and they start at 7, to amass 300 would be a huge task in any endeavor. I think the muay chaiya guys are a sincere bunch.
The 300 fights thing is absurb i have lived and trained in thailand and these guys HIDE in their backyard and have been invited to fight in open competition or come to any kai muay and get some reality. The idea in the US was trashed a long time ago when reality set in, yes there are tons of backyard and school matches and they are meaningless in the martial arts world. Muay Chaiya is good but these old arts were taken and developed into a superior art called muay thai....thats history.
I agree with Antonio on this one. When I was a Sanda fighter, I met a Muay thai fighter who was retired at age 24, because he said he had fought in 247 matches. Not quite 300 but close. And to say ancient stays are inferior is obsurd. Why would learning more brutal techniques make it weaker? seems like it would make it more deadly. And just because a fighter isnt in top venues doesnt mean hes no good. Not everyone want to be a "ring" fighter.
What's the difference between Sport Boxing? The only different aspect i see is minor incorrect technique. Is that the point? Like the walking "technique" that seemed to be stressed as great importance wasn't even applied in the sparring. And in actuality, the dude had terrible footwork. Is that the point? Not hating, im just curious and interested. I see nothing unique or "unorthodox" here.
It is completely different and extremely effective. if the footwork is not apparent in this one see part two where i spar with Tae, who is about the best chaiya fighter in thailand. watch how they transition from one kick to the next, it is unique. where do you train in thailand? maybe you could come see for yourself.
Warrior maker I totally agree with you,300 fights! come on Antonio sometimes your feet leave the ground!.
I to like Muay Chaiya a lot but modern Muay Thai is so hard,if you think those guys dont know what it feels like to get a elbow in the leg or knee in the thigh etc etc(Chaiya specialities) you best think again bro,they get broken ribs many times in matches and box on.
I am so sick of you people in some other country telling me whats what in thailand where i live and train every day. i train modern muay thai monday thrugh thursday and chaiya on weekends.
I have had pro fights in thailand (boxing) and i train with lumpini title holders. i understand what modern muay thai is about, i am telling you chaiya is incrredible. and as always, you are welcome to come over and compare for yourself. just give me your flight info and i will meet you at the airport.
About this 300 challenge fights: since you guys have obviously not spent enough time in asia, it is normal that people come in to challenge the gym or the teacher or the system. and the lead student has to fight them. when paddy first opened in cambodia, that was me. and i fought anyone who came in and challenged and for kru lek it is tae. after ten years, a few challanges a month, it adds up to hundreds of fights.
Dont worry about them man, they are just standard "youtubers". people who have no training (but constantly watch the UFC and think they are MA experts), or train in a crappy school like 2 hours a week with an overweight instructor. Many martial arts look "weak" or "wierd" on the surface, but you must actually TRAIN in an art to experience exactly what it is. BTW viewers........dont call yourself a martial artist without moral character and ALOT of blood sweat and tears. Ahmitofo
not only did i confirm this number but i have several other interviews on here with fighters like saenchai and orono who have two humdred or three hundred fights. you obviously havent done enough fighting in thailand.
I look forward as well to your next episdoe to see your movement against tae. Please post a fight between tae and an real opponent when you get the chance if you can. It would be much appreciate. Keep up the good work and thank you for your comments here and through personal email.
i dont know when tae is fighting. you need to ask him. i spar him in episdoe two which is already on youtube. so let me know what you think. i think he is great.
Now you totally lost credibility, 300 challenge matches, we stopped talking like that in the US a long, long time ago. Thats mythology. Post one of his fights against a good opponent, maybe a top muay thai guy and let that do the talking also in the sparring there is no muay chaiya structure, it falls apart in real time. Chaiya is a great system but dont oversell it past the point of reality. Just my two cents. I enjoy the vids, your work, etc but you have to remain real and rooted.
muay thai, bokator, muay lao, bradal serey, yaw yan, san da, tomoi EIGHT years i have been training and fighting across south east asia. this is the best thing i have found. i could chose any art to focus on and i have chosen chaiya. so what is not real about what i have done or the opinions i have come to?
Understood and respected BUT some of the comments are not realistic nor can be corresponded to reality. Each person finds what works for them in their journey in life its more their response to their life and world. I am happy you found something that enlightens yours. I dont mean to argue with you as I said I respect your opinion also there are several foreigners with a long time in Muay Chaiya going back to the early nineties and they like the system and i respect them.
well said "warriormaker".......what works for one doesnt for the other.....if it works for you.....great.....if it doesnt.....dont judge it, just move on
I would agree with you you, yungthugjase. Its just a tap/tap sparring match, i dont think the chaiya would last one millisecond with a real muay thai guy or even a mediocore boxer. You can play that stuff when but when you get Knocked the fuck out its no joke. Its nice stuff to play with but not for real time, no matter what they say or what the hype. Dont believe the hype!
man you gotta see part two where i am sparring with tae, the movie star guy. he has won like 300 challenge matches. a real chaiya master is nearly unbeatable. i am serious, i joined and i study under kru lek now because i think chaiya is awsome
chaiya style has too much poltics and the foreigners get involved and it becomes ridiculous. lek and praeng are just two masters, there are more superior masters who are older and senior to them actively teaching who are "pure and total", its matter of staying out of the ego battles and training.
in old arts, it works like this, if i train first with the master, then I am a senior student, so i come before you then i will always be your senior. So in that regard one is senior to another, sometimes not based on having better skills. so it is in muay chaiya and other thai arts, its a matter of hierarchy respect. It works for the foreigners in the system as well.
muay chaiya is just a style of muay boran...there is grappling in thai martial arts. go ask colonel amnat pooksrisuk. he studies many different muay boran styles and knows the pichaisongkram which is the thai art of war
i have been researching in the field for years, there is no thai grappling. if you know someone who has thai grpapling, i mean ground grappling please put me in contact with them and i will contact them
how come this muay thai chaiya doesn't seems to have any defence and most of the time i see people getting hit while they hit the opponent? if that is that cast, why not we learn Mae Mai Muay thai instead? Just like Nai kanom Tong.
I really like the look of Muay Chaiya. I am curious though as to the differences between Kru Lek's Chaiya and Kru Preang's Chaiya. I noticed in one video that Kru Preang had some ground grappling.
Any info would be much appreciated.
Keep up the good work Antonio, love the show. Thanks
kru lek is kru preangs senior, that means in the martial arts liniage, kru lek stayed with the master longer and teaches pure chaiya. the ground fighting was added later by kru preang and is not original thai.
this is the story i was told at kru leks school. but what i absolutely know from my research, after 8 years in asia, Thailand seems to be the only country in the region that has NO history of traditional grappling.
First of all, discredit is the most common stretegy in the kind of activity.
As i heard, Kru preang and Lek have no relationship like senior or lineage.
Who's stay with the master longer and has reliability. I saw a lot of old documents and TV programs that the master and kru preang appear together, but i can't even see kru Lek once.
In competition, the master let only one of his students to compete, that's Kru preang. So i can obviously see that who's is more reliability.
The second, I'm curious what's your research, thinks about probability when ancient military has to capture someone, how they can capture if they don't know grasping?? And if u stay long enogh in Thaland u will see a lot of ancient painting that display some of grasping techniques.
one of my favorite martial arts
getitisinsanej2727 3 weeks ago
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@brooklynmonk1
"@Staline1991 It is taught at Ban Chang Thai in Sukumvith in Bangkok.
brooklynmonk1 1 hour ago" <-- Muay Chaiya in Thailand.
And real kung fu can only be found in China, not America- only where belts can be bought.
OVERCAPITALIZE 4 months ago
where is muay thai chaiya teached? is there multiple countries where i could move to learn ?
Staline1991 5 months ago
@Staline1991 Anywhere beside thailand are fake schools... like kung fu, you can only learn the real thing from an actual monk in china.
OVERCAPITALIZE 4 months ago
@OVERCAPITALIZE who said u that northen shaolin is the real kung fu?wushu has many styles,but most of them are 2 far away to be optimal.
malganus4 2 months ago
@malganus4 Idc what style of Kung fu it is. It sure aint the real one here in the USA.
OVERCAPITALIZE 2 months ago
@OVERCAPITALIZE What u mean not real? why the hell someone would teach cinematic gunfu?pure wushu isn't good for high mass and muscle,much better is combination with boxing,wing chun and teakwondo.Wusu allows free style and new moves.Pure wushu moves are for small people,lots of movement are useless like most animal style of south shaolin,though north shaolin is like better variant of karate,with hard body train and free style.
malganus4 1 month ago
@malganus4 What i mean by "real" is authentic.
OVERCAPITALIZE 1 month ago
@OVERCAPITALIZE It doesnt have to be learned from monks. there are only about 6o monks at shaolin, or there were only 60 when i was there, and only 40 of them were kung fu monks. but there are tens of thousands of shaolin grads teaching all over china. you could learn from any of them.
brooklynmonk1 2 months ago
@Staline1991 It is taught at Ban Chang Thai in Sukumvith in Bangkok.
brooklynmonk1 4 months ago
how much would it cost to train with arjarn lek
kimimarokekegenkai 1 year ago
@kimimarokekegenkai Private lessons at their gym are around 900baht per lesson (around 30USD) Public lessons are around 200 baht each. Go to learnmuaythaichaiya . com for more information if you are really interested in training under him.
Zem0nkey 1 year ago
@Zem0nkey i wish i could train under him but i live in the u.s.
kimimarokekegenkai 1 year ago
do you know anybody that teaches muay thai chaiya in Northern Jersey/ NY ? Or in Tokyo? I'll be off to Tokyo in 5 months.
HDunplugged 1 year ago
What would you say are the differences between Boran and Chaiya? Is it a regional thing?
BladeAndStick 1 year ago
@BladeAndStick Muay Boran means any style invented or used before the 1920s when modern muay Thai became a sport and began using a ring, gloves, and rules. it is not regional. chaiya is a specific, codified system, with a prescribed set of movements, which is clearly explained in this and other videos i did on Chaiya.
brooklynmonk1 1 year ago
Its not about being the best right away flancka if you mistake big kicks and large attacks as being "the pro way" your totally wrong, They are sparring with technique so it has to be broken down into effective learning but you would say "beginner/intermediate" because you are the one with the ego and one of those internet nerds who base experience on other peoples video's get out of your house and actually experience something instead of bagging peoples videos. Get a life. Great video btw :)
Stonedog1991 2 years ago
you guys look like beginner to beginner/intermediate. Totally disappointed. lots of talk and bragging but looks like shit.
flancka 2 years ago
you know what is hilarious, i tried to write a response to flancka but he enabled friend lock. so he can write rude comments on other people's vuideos but no one can write him back. what a coward!
brooklynmonk1 2 years ago
dude, i don't wanna be held hostage and talked to death. if you are told you suck when you suck -well it is not really rude. Your ego is too inflated
flancka 2 years ago
you dont want to own responsabiloity for your own actions is what you mean. i was just on your channel, did you do any muay chaiya videos? i saw stuff there but it all looked like other people's stuff.
brooklynmonk1 2 years ago
dude i live and practise the arts and as far as taking responsibility for my actions...you lost me. I am not denying that i think you are a know- nothing phony oportunist
flancka 2 years ago
yes but you dont want anyone writing to you directly but you want to insult people publicly. so which opportunity did i take advantage of? i am so confused about your apparent anger, profanity and the strength of your insults. did i do something to you?
brooklynmonk1 2 years ago
lets keep it in the PubliC forum so you can explain to the posters how a windbag with no skills takes the liberty to make huge judgemental leaps about fighting arts and fighters you are not qualified to judge nor the right to trade gossip as if it was truth.
flancka 2 years ago
who did i insult in the video? seriously, your obviouse anger and hatred come through in your posts and seem unwarranted.
brooklynmonk1 2 years ago
@flancka I am curious how i am not qualified. i have been studying martial art and fighting for over 30 years and have spent the last ten years training nearly full time in Asia, across ten countries. If that doesn't qualify me to evaluate martial arts, what would? and does that imply that you trained for 31 years in 11 countries?
brooklynmonk1 1 year ago
"Kru Lek" is a VERY good instructor and I know it to be true since I'm his student. As stated in the video, only individuals with patience, perseverance, and a true dedication to the art of Muay Chaiya will succeed in mastering it. I've met and ran into way too many people who lack the patience to drill out the important basics ! As a result, those particular individuals can't and won't be able to go beyond the limits of modern day sport version of Muay Thai. Oh well, too bad for them...
smartchai 2 years ago
Cool, no problem. But the thread here veered around in circles. I spoke to many thai people who are involved so I understand. Its politics none the less. I dont personally want to be part of it was my point. As far as fights against known quantities in the open is what I am talking about. and I am glad you agree they havent happened. Thanks for your response.
magusofmagick 2 years ago
does this style include weaponry like krabi krapong or is this mostly just a open hand art?
cruzcontrol184 2 years ago
Also please maybe PM me the link or repost it. Because I not only saw it but I heard about it in thailand. I know what I saw and heard. I also remember a very lengthy thread from people responding to it. Its only recently lek and praeng had fighters because when i asked neither had anyone compete in any major event or against any major figher. Both men have taught i assume for close to two decades and it was another reason I shied away. Please get me the link or the forum link if you can thanks
magusofmagick 2 years ago
Hi magus.
Yes there was a fight like your describing, about 3 years ago. It was had mainly to sort out a dispute students from the 2 schools where having online. It was a chilled event, with little animosity Kru Lek was there to mediate an make sure it didn't get out of hand.
To be honest, the 'politics' in Muay Chaiya have been made to be a bigger deal than it really is. Most of it is the younger students bickering, so I don't really think about it. Kru Praeng and Kru Lek have their reasons,
nathanbrown19 2 years ago
and issues which is their business.
Oh, Tae has fought in the ring on several ocassions... the reason why you don't see the fights is that Kru Lek and his students don't like to show footage of more serious fights, as they are being 'graeng jai' for the other fighters. Also, people come to challenge Tae quite regularly, and I've seen plenty of that footage!
There will be more footage coming out in the future, but we have to be careful, as not wanting to fuel the flames of 'politics'.
nathanbrown19 2 years ago
Its true that you might hit me with being hypercritical but I dont travel half way around the world to get involved in any politics or this or that. Life is too short. You want healthy environments to train in, something my dad also told me to look closely into. I came here to look, watch, listen to people's opinons and i respect each persons views just as i have my my own. I will take another look in the future -I havent ruled anything out as of yet and I keep an open mind as I always do. Ciao!
magusofmagick 2 years ago
I dont think my opinon is weird. I have been involved in ma my whole life having trained with my dad and traveled all around the world. I talked to both teachers and saw the classes I went too with my thai friend. I listened to the teachers and i asked them questions. I felt also a strong disrespect toward muay thai which i respect. I asked both teachers if they ever fought, lived in a kai muay or trained muay thai and they did notwhich was an odd commentary and was definitely outputting to me.
magusofmagick 2 years ago
the grappling praeng does as well is pretty bad in my opinion so i dont think any foreigners who can learn the real stuff would indulge in that personally or be bothered with it. So theres alot of distortion, internal conflicts and discord in the whole thing on both sides which was my original point, i wouldnt want to be involved and get tangled in anything like that so because we have so much of that in the ma world as you all now on here. I love to at least try the art but i will wait for now
magusofmagick 2 years ago
I agree with you on southeast asian grappling, however. MMA fighters from the west or from japan, korea, or philippines would dominate most grapplers or mixed martial arts type fighters in most of southeast asia.
your opinion on chaiya is wierd. you should come out and try it. it is absolutely awesome. and no, there is no distortion in kru lek's camp. he follows exactly the way kru ket taught, which is well documented.
brooklynmonk1 2 years ago
Yes, if you have the link please repost it. I have the dvd and there isnothing i think on there. It was a youtube post with the students fighting. If its the real thing there was also a thread somewhere on a forum about it which was quite lengthy but i cant remember where, if someone can repost the full link and the forum let us know.
magusofmagick 2 years ago
Evidently this whole conversation is getting redundant. grappling or the addition would be a suffix to the system long as the original system is in tact, the student i assume could just not do that and concentrate on the pure systems. There also is not the purity one thinks from the original material i was told that from the older masters on either side from either man. My research of course is not that deep outside visiting both schools and talking with the teachers and what i heard from thais
magusofmagick 2 years ago
i just checked '"Mai" Muay Thai Chaiya DVD by Kru Preang' it has nothing at all to do with kru lek. it is a kru preang video. please get your facts straight.
brooklynmonk1 2 years ago
Yes, the fight has been on going in thailand between praeng and lek for some time and its not evident to foreigners but the thai people know. I have been told by thai friends to veer aaway from both camps and stick with the older senior masters of chaiya but I have to research that fact. nathan posts on another forum and has for some time.
spiritualbeggers: can you repost that link its didnt come through for me.
magusofmagick 2 years ago
it is true that they dont like themsleves. and nathan posts but he doesnt attack. which is what i said five comments ago.
brooklynmonk1 2 years ago
thats not a link. could you please either post the link or send me the link or something so i can see this/
brooklynmonk1 2 years ago
It seems they pulled the footage but i saw it with my own two eyes, so its not a lie nor do I have anything to prove by saying it. The thai students know about it, there is bad blood and alot of bad talk on both sides, because i heard it all the time in thailand. Neither is an angel or superior in my opinion.
magusofmagick 2 years ago
Honestly i think you are thinking of someone else. you wont find even one single comment on the internet by a kru lek student because he doesnt allow it and nathan and i are the only ones who use youtube. and as for the fight you speak of, it never ever happened. it must be some other muay chaiya teacher. again, nathan, op, tae and i would be the main fighters from kru lek and we never fight kru prangs students
brooklynmonk1 2 years ago
The vid was all over youtube. Many people saw it and there threads on it on the major forums. I know also because i was in thailand at the time. It was pathetic, swinging for the fences things. praeng-lek conflict has been ongoing it seems based on who wants to be king. It was very bad when I was there and it really turned me off. They also heavily criticized muay thai and I didnt buy since none ever spent a minute in a camp or fought in the ring. ask around and someone has the footage
magusofmagick 2 years ago
i have been doing martial arts research in asia for 8 years. i can say, without a doubt, thailand is the only country in south east asia which never ever ever had any form of ground fighting. but kru preang has ground fighting in his chaiya. this was something he added later. also kru ket's muay chaiya was published, and it did not include any ground fighting.
brooklynmonk1 2 years ago
BTW, Antonio, are you sure about this Kru Preang-Kru Lek thing? I would have to admit that I am not affiliated with either side, but it seems to me that you've only had one side feed you the information. If indeed Kru Lek and Kru Preang are rivals of any sort it would be difficult to hear good words about each other.
dodddd29383 2 years ago
I would have to say that Muay Chaiya is generally stronger than the modern day Muay Thai. The former is a survival technique; you try to kill your opponent as fast as you can (at least that was the original purpose). The latter is a sport, governed by rules, and has techniques for showoff for the crowd to see.
dodddd29383 2 years ago
hi antonio! Well i remember seeing footage of leks students vs praengs students in a fight challenge and it was the saddest thing i had ever seen. It kinda turned me off to both teachers so i never joined up but i like the footage and the approaches and try to stay open minded but i hear both schools continually attack and bash one another and muay thai in general which is bad. but i am open minded and continue to be so i am watching and absorbing all thanks for your help. be well
magusofmagick 2 years ago
If you have seen a video like that, please send it to me. because i know Kru Lek wouldnt have participated in such a fight. also Kru lek never bashes anyone. Nathan brown and i are the only students of kru lek who even use youtube and neither of us bash anyone or anything.
brooklynmonk1 2 years ago
I think muaychaiya is cool. I think you meant 1900s,warriormaker not 1800s but your point is clear. Muay thai is what it is . I think also fighters in any fighting discipline have real records and a high number like 100-200-300 will have records of draws and losses or its suspect to the core. Chaiaya guys from reading other forums have a chip on their shoulder about being superior to muay thai which is strange because they should both just be there for people to train in and enjoy.
magusofmagick 2 years ago
thanks for commenting on my video. about the chaiya guys with a chip on their xchoulder. there are two main tecahers in thaialnd, kru lek and kru preang. kru preang's guys are famous for writing bad things oin the internet. kru lek won't let people train who have a bad attitude and i never had a problem with anyone at kru lek's place.
brooklynmonk1 2 years ago
So i think taken into correct context, you can have fun learning muay chaiya without all the claims and such, but i dont think the comparisons work like i stated unless you have actual fight comps to compare one to the other you have endless conjecture and thats doesnt help anyone. The point is train to be strong, to be healthy, to be mentaly and spiritually aligned. The hyperbole should remain as far from that as possible, thats the best approach. I enjoyed the exchanges and conversations-
warriormaker 2 years ago
I think for the most people dont understand muay thai as from the posts and the vids, so they keep trying to compare apples and oranges. muay thai is a sport and if you want real stuff go into military muay or krabikrabong withthe full ancient system. Bare knuckle stuff has its place when active and alive. So you the choices are yours but let all the overhype fool you, if you fight or know self defense you can easily see the differences.
warriormaker 2 years ago
I think the difference here is that one should not even compare this to muay thai. Muay thai is its own art, he is an active fighting sport, if you want muay thai in realistic context try military muay thai with the combat boots on, weapons, etc, you will get a better understanding of how to use then going with muay chaiiya and spending years on techs for the most part you wont use. Of course its your choice muay chaiya is a full system that takes time. Its just a choice each person has.
warriormaker 2 years ago
ancient styles are viable. I have trained in them but in the context of 300 or so fights, a muay thai fighter documents them in real time. There hasnt been any muay chiaya fighter fight or win any event since the 1800s. It is just a system now with no outlet to fight. I trained with many of muay thai fighters as well and with a 200 fight record it stood at 120-40-40 or something like that, thats a real record. We have to look at things realistically and if you are a fighter you do,
warriormaker 2 years ago
Hey Antonio.......I have a question.........is Muay Chaiya officially your favorite style now? You seem to rave about it. Have you adopted it as your main style now>
randyds5 2 years ago
I want to say yes, but because i am away all of the time, i dont have the opportunity to keep studying and improving my chaiya. so, standard muay thai and boaktor remain my main styles.
brooklynmonk1 2 years ago
thank you for answering. Bokator and Chaiya seem VERY deep and pratical. Whats so cool about styles like these, is the fact you can learn individual techniques, drills, strategies, and exercises which can be used immediately. Even though im big into Chinese Martial arts, I'll have to agree with the "monkey master" and say that CMA do TOO MUCH form work, and not enough drilling of individual techniques. I was naive to Thai and Khmer arts besides sport MT and Pradel Serey. Thank you Antonio!
randyds5 2 years ago
good points and totally understood--i wrestled all through high school into college, mat time was ridiculous, dont remember how manymatches but i remember the real comps which was all that mattered. Also orono and the like are exceptions to the muay thai rule these guys fought and fought and orono was still fighting and only recently settled down so these men are not the norm, thais fight alot in the ring and its mostly documented and proven. most end their careers in the 100-150 margin---------
warriormaker 2 years ago
Just wanted to conclude, that what matters is the training and development of the student and the chaiya vid displayed show there is a nice curriculum to develop from. True its the old style which born the new but it has good stuff. i think the arguments are just a matter of how people see fighting and what is a valid fight, nothing more. Tae seems very skilled and nobody seems to argue that. I think though there is no right or wrong here.
jaggernautico 2 years ago
I think also theres two sides to this, my brother who is an active judoka has tons of mat matches but he never refers to them as anything other than that if he ever does, he competes and counts that because it is active open competition in a real environment, so one can understand its a matter of perception. The muay thai fighters who are active build toward 100 fights and they start at 7, to amass 300 would be a huge task in any endeavor. I think the muay chaiya guys are a sincere bunch.
jaggernautico 2 years ago
The 300 fights thing is absurb i have lived and trained in thailand and these guys HIDE in their backyard and have been invited to fight in open competition or come to any kai muay and get some reality. The idea in the US was trashed a long time ago when reality set in, yes there are tons of backyard and school matches and they are meaningless in the martial arts world. Muay Chaiya is good but these old arts were taken and developed into a superior art called muay thai....thats history.
warriormaker 2 years ago
I agree with Antonio on this one. When I was a Sanda fighter, I met a Muay thai fighter who was retired at age 24, because he said he had fought in 247 matches. Not quite 300 but close. And to say ancient stays are inferior is obsurd. Why would learning more brutal techniques make it weaker? seems like it would make it more deadly. And just because a fighter isnt in top venues doesnt mean hes no good. Not everyone want to be a "ring" fighter.
randyds5 2 years ago
What's the difference between Sport Boxing? The only different aspect i see is minor incorrect technique. Is that the point? Like the walking "technique" that seemed to be stressed as great importance wasn't even applied in the sparring. And in actuality, the dude had terrible footwork. Is that the point? Not hating, im just curious and interested. I see nothing unique or "unorthodox" here.
imbrandonj 2 years ago
It is completely different and extremely effective. if the footwork is not apparent in this one see part two where i spar with Tae, who is about the best chaiya fighter in thailand. watch how they transition from one kick to the next, it is unique. where do you train in thailand? maybe you could come see for yourself.
brooklynmonk1 2 years ago
Warrior maker I totally agree with you,300 fights! come on Antonio sometimes your feet leave the ground!.
I to like Muay Chaiya a lot but modern Muay Thai is so hard,if you think those guys dont know what it feels like to get a elbow in the leg or knee in the thigh etc etc(Chaiya specialities) you best think again bro,they get broken ribs many times in matches and box on.
namphon 2 years ago
I am so sick of you people in some other country telling me whats what in thailand where i live and train every day. i train modern muay thai monday thrugh thursday and chaiya on weekends.
brooklynmonk1 2 years ago
I have had pro fights in thailand (boxing) and i train with lumpini title holders. i understand what modern muay thai is about, i am telling you chaiya is incrredible. and as always, you are welcome to come over and compare for yourself. just give me your flight info and i will meet you at the airport.
brooklynmonk1 2 years ago
About this 300 challenge fights: since you guys have obviously not spent enough time in asia, it is normal that people come in to challenge the gym or the teacher or the system. and the lead student has to fight them. when paddy first opened in cambodia, that was me. and i fought anyone who came in and challenged and for kru lek it is tae. after ten years, a few challanges a month, it adds up to hundreds of fights.
brooklynmonk1 2 years ago
Dont worry about them man, they are just standard "youtubers". people who have no training (but constantly watch the UFC and think they are MA experts), or train in a crappy school like 2 hours a week with an overweight instructor. Many martial arts look "weak" or "wierd" on the surface, but you must actually TRAIN in an art to experience exactly what it is. BTW viewers........dont call yourself a martial artist without moral character and ALOT of blood sweat and tears. Ahmitofo
randyds5 2 years ago
not only did i confirm this number but i have several other interviews on here with fighters like saenchai and orono who have two humdred or three hundred fights. you obviously havent done enough fighting in thailand.
brooklynmonk1 2 years ago
look forward to ep 2!
jaggernautico 2 years ago
part two is up already. you can see it on my channel or just do a search. thanks for the support.
brooklynmonk1 2 years ago
I look forward as well to your next episdoe to see your movement against tae. Please post a fight between tae and an real opponent when you get the chance if you can. It would be much appreciate. Keep up the good work and thank you for your comments here and through personal email.
warriormaker 2 years ago
i dont know when tae is fighting. you need to ask him. i spar him in episdoe two which is already on youtube. so let me know what you think. i think he is great.
brooklynmonk1 2 years ago
Now you totally lost credibility, 300 challenge matches, we stopped talking like that in the US a long, long time ago. Thats mythology. Post one of his fights against a good opponent, maybe a top muay thai guy and let that do the talking also in the sparring there is no muay chaiya structure, it falls apart in real time. Chaiya is a great system but dont oversell it past the point of reality. Just my two cents. I enjoy the vids, your work, etc but you have to remain real and rooted.
warriormaker 2 years ago
muay thai, bokator, muay lao, bradal serey, yaw yan, san da, tomoi EIGHT years i have been training and fighting across south east asia. this is the best thing i have found. i could chose any art to focus on and i have chosen chaiya. so what is not real about what i have done or the opinions i have come to?
brooklynmonk1 2 years ago
Understood and respected BUT some of the comments are not realistic nor can be corresponded to reality. Each person finds what works for them in their journey in life its more their response to their life and world. I am happy you found something that enlightens yours. I dont mean to argue with you as I said I respect your opinion also there are several foreigners with a long time in Muay Chaiya going back to the early nineties and they like the system and i respect them.
warriormaker 2 years ago
well said "warriormaker".......what works for one doesnt for the other.....if it works for you.....great.....if it doesnt.....dont judge it, just move on
randyds5 2 years ago
I would agree with you you, yungthugjase. Its just a tap/tap sparring match, i dont think the chaiya would last one millisecond with a real muay thai guy or even a mediocore boxer. You can play that stuff when but when you get Knocked the fuck out its no joke. Its nice stuff to play with but not for real time, no matter what they say or what the hype. Dont believe the hype!
warriormaker 2 years ago
man you gotta see part two where i am sparring with tae, the movie star guy. he has won like 300 challenge matches. a real chaiya master is nearly unbeatable. i am serious, i joined and i study under kru lek now because i think chaiya is awsome
brooklynmonk1 2 years ago
antonio is beating the white guy lol seriously in real fight antonio win
yungthugjase 2 years ago
chaiya style has too much poltics and the foreigners get involved and it becomes ridiculous. lek and praeng are just two masters, there are more superior masters who are older and senior to them actively teaching who are "pure and total", its matter of staying out of the ego battles and training.
warriormaker 2 years ago
in old arts, it works like this, if i train first with the master, then I am a senior student, so i come before you then i will always be your senior. So in that regard one is senior to another, sometimes not based on having better skills. so it is in muay chaiya and other thai arts, its a matter of hierarchy respect. It works for the foreigners in the system as well.
warriormaker 2 years ago
muay chaiya is just a style of muay boran...there is grappling in thai martial arts. go ask colonel amnat pooksrisuk. he studies many different muay boran styles and knows the pichaisongkram which is the thai art of war
crazylon3r 2 years ago
i have been researching in the field for years, there is no thai grappling. if you know someone who has thai grpapling, i mean ground grappling please put me in contact with them and i will contact them
brooklynmonk1 2 years ago
how come this muay thai chaiya doesn't seems to have any defence and most of the time i see people getting hit while they hit the opponent? if that is that cast, why not we learn Mae Mai Muay thai instead? Just like Nai kanom Tong.
Mosesnb 2 years ago
I really like the look of Muay Chaiya. I am curious though as to the differences between Kru Lek's Chaiya and Kru Preang's Chaiya. I noticed in one video that Kru Preang had some ground grappling.
Any info would be much appreciated.
Keep up the good work Antonio, love the show. Thanks
zachambley 2 years ago
kru lek is kru preangs senior, that means in the martial arts liniage, kru lek stayed with the master longer and teaches pure chaiya. the ground fighting was added later by kru preang and is not original thai.
this is the story i was told at kru leks school. but what i absolutely know from my research, after 8 years in asia, Thailand seems to be the only country in the region that has NO history of traditional grappling.
brooklynmonk1 2 years ago
First of all, discredit is the most common stretegy in the kind of activity.
As i heard, Kru preang and Lek have no relationship like senior or lineage.
Who's stay with the master longer and has reliability. I saw a lot of old documents and TV programs that the master and kru preang appear together, but i can't even see kru Lek once.
In competition, the master let only one of his students to compete, that's Kru preang. So i can obviously see that who's is more reliability.
tachto 2 years ago
The second, I'm curious what's your research, thinks about probability when ancient military has to capture someone, how they can capture if they don't know grasping?? And if u stay long enogh in Thaland u will see a lot of ancient painting that display some of grasping techniques.
tachto 2 years ago
My overall comments is that i heard and seen, like yours.
tachto 2 years ago
awsum either way i had no idea muay chaiya bfor you man thanx abunch :]
thejuken 2 years ago
@GregK28002
Kru Praeng the Master of Muay Chaiya? You know that Kru Lek is his senior right?
nathanbrown19 2 years ago
I tried to find this school in march but couldnt. pm me the adress if you can. Thanks.
NAKMEEZY 2 years ago
how come you didnt go see Kru Preang? the Master of Muay Chaiya
GregK28002 2 years ago