CCW 2.48: Brian Bendis versus female characters...again!

[davidcintor]

sentry rips the head off ultron which took form of a women in mighty avengers

[xXxVagnerxXx]

I think this is kinda being blown way out of proportion. So he has had some female characters killed off what about all the male skrulls that get kill in the secret ivansion. My point is that it doesnt matter wiether its a male or female its the reader who makes it a big deal. I mean I dont here people complaining or how its sexiest when all the females in comic books all have big boobs and nice asses in there costumes. How many male characters have died over the number of female characters

[Invincible5972]

I hear people complaining about that,even from straight guys,but it doesn't happen that much.

[johnnyhorror92182]

It's not HOW MANY male characters vs HOW MANY female characters die/get treated. It's HOW the female characters are killed or treated.

Morgan Le Fey: Head Ripped Off.

Black Widow II (the blonde one): head blown up

Skrull Female: Shot in the Head

Tigra: Beaten Like a Trailer Park Wife w/rape alluded too.

The list goes on.

[LEGOcinema15]

It's scary to think I didnt realize Bendis was doing this a lot until you guys brought it up. I've started making a list of all the instances where Bendis is being brutal to female characters. Other than that I think Bendis is one of my fav writers.

[herosymbiote]

being a comic book fan and seing women being treated like this and being taught to respect women with class and dignity, it makes me sick to see these horrible things being done to female charachters

[LordBifford]

I actually admired the Sentry for swiftly killing the enemy as soon as they arrive on the scene. If it wasn't for La Fey's (strangely contrived) ability to come back to life, this would have ended in one issue and they would never had to worry about this particularl villain ever again. The real Avengers never manage to do this sort of thing.

[locusmortis]

I'm not going to repeat what I've already said in this thread, I guess you just don't get what superheroes are meant to be.

[comicculturewarrior]

I'm gonna side with locus on this one. The DA are not heroes, they're villains dressed as heroes, using villain tactics to deal with the problems heroes face. I remember as issue of Avengers back during the Busiek/Perez run where the Avengers confront these powerful god-like beings and just when it looks like they're gonna throw down, Capt. America says 'let me try this' and -gasp- TALKS TO THEIR ENEMY, gets them to leave AND AVOIDS A FIGHT!

THAT is what heroes do.

Elliott

[deemar325]

I'm seeing the pattern with Bendis, never crossed my mind before, but yeah the guy seems to have issues with that.

[agmaster]

I have to admit. Chris has a good point. Yeh, women aren't doing much, but that's because the demographic is male. We want to see males saving the day could be his mindset.

It reeks of bendis trying to be more extreme and dark and being heavy handed about it.

[locusmortis]

Dunno man, I think treating women like this is even more disturbing because of the slewed demographic in superhero comics readers. What does that say about the attitudes of the writers, artists, editors and readers towards women?

plus what does it say to any women/girls who currently read comics or might be interested in them?

[comicculturewarrior]

You make a very good observation there locus. More than ever before, comics are a boys club, and they might as well put a sign up on the fanboy club entrance that reads: 'He-man woman haters club.'

Elliott

[locusmortis]

Don't get me wrong, I like a bit of cheesecake every now and then but at the end of the day stories have to fair to both sexes. And it dosen't have to be all girls need to kick ass or whatever just good stories and good characterisation.

something like Terry Moores "Echo" does that but probably struggles to meet diamonds minimum orders but Bendis' headripping book tops the chart.

[agmaster]

Him at full power should have been some form of inceneration. She ain't dying anyways, so why make it so brutal? I expect the claim to be made that 'Sentry is influenced by Dark Avengers, so he's more brutal.' But really? Had you not pointed it out to me, I would not have really noticed it, but this kind of adds more evidence.

[lugo012685]

Is that all you guys do it hate on Bendis is your show?

[deemar325]

Nah, they actually give insightful reviews and opinions on all things comics.

They honest sometimes painfully honest (Yeah Jose, I'm looking at you...;-) I'd rather watch them than other shows in the pocket of the industry.

[locusmortis]

Bendis is a good writer, thats why seeing him write fanboyish stuff like this is annoying because he's capable of so much better.

[Pinkhamsterino]

Ha ha... I just noticed that the Comic Culture Warrior intro features Judge Dredd punching through someone's head at the moment... At least it's not a chick!

[comicculturewarrior]

That would be Judge Death to you good sir!

And yes, the irony is not lost on me...

;-)

Elliott

[locusmortis]

Well its Judge Fear that he's up against, the dialogue from John Wagner is so funny too.

Judge Fear says "Gaze into the face of Fear"

and Dredd socks him in the head "Gaze into the fist of DREDD"

That whole story reminds how Wagner is 10 times the writer Bendis is but thats another story...

[comicculturewarrior]

Ah yes, that is correct locus! Points to you good sir!

Elliott

[Pinkhamsterino]

What the hell is up with all of these head shot/decapitation kills (particularly on women)? That's a totally cheap way to create emotional impact/create a "whoa, dude!" moment. A good writer can create emotional impact without tearing off a character's head. Hell, nobody even needs to die. And if the writer is truly good, drama can be created without anyone even striking anyone else. (Yeah, I know it's a superhero comic.) Cheap, Bendis, cheap.

[thechrishunter]

Elliot,

Bendis is just trying to create equality in comics!

If it's good for these things to be done against males, it's ok to be done against females, bro.

Who wants one-sided stories? There are plenty of non-Bendis comics on the shelves for you to choose from if you don't like what Bendis writes.

Just saying.

[comicculturewarrior]

That's one way of looking at it thechrishunter. Thanks for commenting!

Elliott

[comicculturewarrior]

Oh, and just for the sake of full disclosure, if the scene were Moonstone/Ms. Marvel taking out Morganna LeFaye, I wouldn't have had a problem with it either. Male violence against women is too prevalent in society and I just have a problem with it in comics. But that's just me.

Elliott

[thechrishunter]

No, bro. I understand what you're saying, but in comics it's not like that so much.

I made my remarks from the stand point of so much feigned equality constantly being screamed for by people. Apparently, all they really want is for female characters in comics to be treated like roses and not real characters, so nothing can happen to them...EVER. Hope that makes sense.

I'm still waiting to read both DA issues. That'll happen this week, though.

[locusmortis]

I disagree Elliot, I have a problem with heroes killing anyone. Only in the most Extreme direst need would I be ok with it

These people are meant to be heroes...what is the word hero meant to mean if it just means indiscriminately murdering people they don't like or whatever.

I get where people might see that as naive or something but I'll stick by my principles. You can have serious, dark stories without cheap violence.

[locusmortis]

Not that I'm against death in comics but its all about context. For example I just re-read Enemy Ace: War in Heaven yesterday which is based on events pertaining to several different german aces in WW2....its based on real events that did or could have happened to real people.

Conan is a medieval fantasy, back then life was cheap.

superhero stories on the other hand...we should be able to look up to heroes like with the old Avengers...dark avengers you can't do that.

[comicculturewarrior]

I'm with your there, locus. I guess what I was trying to say, as I did in my review of the book, is that the initial reaction would have been the viscera; 'WOW, that's was cool!' reaction that all the other fanboys have been having. I also said that I wasn't crazy of this 'heroes killing villains' trend too. Thing is, my job in 'real life' has me exposed to violence enough that I'm sensitive to violence towards women and animals.

I admire you sticking to your principles.

Elliott

[locusmortis]

Sure I get what your saying mate. And just to reiterate its not death in comics that I'm against, its the context in which it happens.

e.g I've been reading war comics since I've been 5 years old but thats a clear context.

I do have a problem with violence towards women or children though, whats next for bendis, ripping the head off of valeria richards?

I hate that kind of exploitation, I didn't buy a single dc comic for 3 years after the rape and murder of Sue Dibny I was so disgusted.

[johnnyhorror92182]

Locusmortis: I understand what you are saying. But I think there is a big difference between what Meltzer did in "Identity Crisis" and what Bendis does on a regular basis.

Meltzer's "Identity Crisis" was a serious adult story with far-reaching consequences in the DCU, set in the context of a Murder Mystery. Dr. Light brutalizing Sue wasn't simply used for "Shock Value" or because "It-Was-Cool". It was handled in a very adult and mature way without the use of graphic imagery.

Continued....

[johnnyhorror92182]

I know I'm asking for it and really, I mean no disrespect about this subject. To be honast, I've seen more terrible acts on Law & Order: SVU.

What happened to Sue, while terrible, was an important plot point that furthered along the story and made me care more about her as a character. It wasn't a meaningless, random shock moment.

[johnnyhorror92182]

Compare that moment in "Identity Crisis" to Bendis's work.

Was Sentry ripping Carnage in half a pivital moment in the first arc of "New Avengers"? No.

Does Dr. Doom calling Ms. Marvel a "Whore" make us care more about the characters? No.

These are just a few examples, but, the bottom line is these moments, and others that E & J have mentioned, are not used to really further along the story, they are used because Bendis thinks random exploitive violence and vulgarity is fun.

[locusmortis]

This is where I disagree with you Johnny, I think what happened to Sue was done precisely for shock value and was very exploitative. I think the writer and artist went WAY too far with what happened.

Compare that to Garth Ennis' Battlefields: Dear Billy #1 where the opening page states that the character had been raped by the japanese but it was done off camera and not shoved in your face like in IC.

I think what happened in Identity crisis was done to get news headlines, nothing more.

[pobra17]

right now Brian Bendis is somewhere making love to the decapitated head of a prostitute with a pentagram scored across his chest.... or maybe not.

[comicculturewarrior]

LOL. Ok, here's my question:

Are you saying that Bendis has a pentagram scored on his chest or that the prostitute is male? Just some noun confusion there. ;-)

Thanks for commenting, pobra!

Elliott

[pobra17]

yes, Bendis would be the one with the pentagram scored on his chest and i assume the prostitute would be female, but then again who knows. Bendis just has a real "church of satan" kinda vibe about him, doesn't he? Maybe it's the bald head or something, but i could totally see him decked out in the robes sodomizing goats and shit, especially now after watching these vids of yours, this is becoming more of a possibility at least in my mind, which probably doesn't count for anything but there it is

[saar1707]

In Avengers Disassembled when She-Hulk go crazy nobody want to hurt her but then come Iron Man and Punch are, really hard, IN THE HEAD!

[saar1707]

*came *are=her

[BlackPhoenix06]

What if..............this all coincidence?

[comicculturewarrior]

As any psychiatrist will tell you, there is no such thing as coincidence. ;-)

C'mon BlackPhoenix, don't you think that's kinda much? What if instead of female characters getting shot in the head, they were black or Latino? Would you be willing to write it off as coincidence then?

And even if it were a coincidence, would you be able to dismiss it? You honestly wouldn't have a problem with it?

Elliott

[BlackPhoenix06]

Perhaps Bendis is doing it unwittingly, for at this point its obviously becoming noticeable and progressivly worse as you guys have noted. Consider this, though: how does this mysogyny pass edtorial so often? Is Marvel purposefully overlooking this to pander Bendis since his books consistently top the charts each month? Marvel are a business after all, and as such I always say they'll undoubtably put their avarice before quality storytelling any day. What do you guys think?

[locusmortis]

Absolutely. You couldn't be more right BP06. Bendis sells lots, Loeb sells lots...so Marvel will go with the flow, they're interested in making money for their shareholders not necessarily in making good stories.

Look at the early 90's, Marvel sold any kind of shit...Rob Liefield books sold hundreds of thousands....then there was a brief renaissance from 97-05 now we're back to grim and dark again.

do a search for grimdark on tvtropes com and you'll see what I mean

[saar1707]

Id didn't even notice that!

Bendis kill women again!