Knife as Hammer - Fallkniven A2 and Busse Skinny ASH-1

[manup2survive]

Keep on ruining them and they will keep making them. Alot of money wasted but at least its not mine! However it is good to see the abuse it will take. I doubt I will ever do it to my A2. Good vid BTW. 

[survivealist]

@mahiigun1 why?

[butcherer100]

blunt side of a axe/hatchet serves as a hammer..

[U8berGTI]

huh? whats the point of this vid? If i were in survival situation i would use a rock to break open a peanut and hammer in a nail...instead of damaging my knife

[89legionar]

vrljav si prijatelju

[96Vebbis]

omg!

[89legionar]

@96Vebbis 

[MrStickywicket]

Fallknivens are made for utility/emergency survival use (army knife) and keep an edge, its not intended to be continually abused like urs, its mainly a utility knife that will not need reprofiling like the busse's will (if they deform enough they will neeed to be sharpened to restore the edge)

[out5yder]

But Fallkniven says they have the best stainless steel knives in the world! What is a 6mm thick pry-bar style knife made for, if not hard use??!

[pliers77]

@out5yder I just seen your other post when you completely fucked the A2 on rocks chopping wood, you should be banned from handling any knife, at least expensive ones anyway.

[motanelmotanel]

I am a A1 owner, and I must say a proud one. In Romania, it is very hard to get a Busse, so nothing to say about them (though I read on different forums they are premium knives). Back to Fallkniven...they are very expensive, yet I consider them worth their money. The VG-10 steel is known for it's brittleness (the result of it's hardness) so it is logic to keep your cutting edge away of hard materials. out5yder, I am sorry for your disappointment, but Fallkniven makes good (enough) knives.

[out5yder]

Yes I agree Fallknivens are generally good knives. But I don't agree they worth the money. They are basically thick knives (A1 and A2 have 6 mm thick blades) and such a thick knife should resist hard work (otherwise it should be made thinner for better slicing performance). The fallkniven edge is brittle due to its high hardness, right! But the Busse knives are of the same hardness (58-60 HRC which basically means 59) and they tend to deform plastically rather than chip under heavy impacts.

[STRIKER520]

The HRC means nothing when it comes to a knife the HRC they use are what it is as metal stock and not the end result after tempering.

[out5yder]

You're WRONG!

The HRC in the specifications of the final product (knife) is exactly the HRC of the knife after tempering. Go buy a Rockwell C tester and check out yourself to convince! Everybody hardens the steel to its maximum by quench, but the temper and cryogenic treatment makes the difference from one manufacturer to another, using the same materials.

[out5yder]

I have also some Spyderco knives in VG-10 which have HRC 57 (that's because spyderco tempers the steel more than fallkniven in order to make it less brittle). Fallkniven makes edges with final hardness of 59HRC (that means after all termal processing including quench and tempering).

[out5yder]

Yes, you might be right with busses - I also consider them too heavy. My Skinny ASH is only 4 millimeters thick and is 420 grams in weight. The fat ASH versions are even much heavier. But the steel they are made from is better than the too brittle VG-10 (which has the same hardness) used by Fallkniven; and it's also better than any other steel I've ever tested.

[chibraxial]

The thing about Infi is that it is VERY tough. But it sux when it comes to edge capabilities : sharpness and edge retention.

[out5yder]

That's obviously false! INFI holds its edge even better than 440C and VG-10 and is also easier to sharpen than most steels at that hardness. It comes shaving sharp from the factory. The only thing that sux with it is the factory edge profile (it is too thick and must be resharpened).

[docnightfall]

@out5yder

INFI has some serious problems with edge rolling under normal use if sharpened to less than 30 degrees inclusive.

But VG10 at 59 hrc easily holds an angle of 22 to 25 degrees under normal usage. It will spit out chips if it hits metal or stone, but I don't consider that part of normal use.

INFI is an excellent steel for large, thick, hard-use knives.

VG10 is a better steel for light to medium duty knives that are optimized for low-impact cuts, like kitchen knives and folders.

[out5yder]

You are partially right!

My only concern about VG-10 is that it doesn't fit well in a big knife such as the fallkniven A2.

Anyway, if you really mean normal use, INFI doesn't roll that way :) Lol. No steel at 58-60 HRC rolls at 22 degrees if you only cut tomatoes and and bread with it.

[docnightfall]

@out5yder

INFI does not work well in thin blades with very low edge angles, even if used with moderate care. VG-10 does. I don't mean tomatoes and bread. I mean common tasks like whittling and notching in medium to hard woods.

I do agree that VG10 seems inappropriate for this kind of knife. It emphasizes the weaknesses of the steel while not utilizing any of its strengths.

[out5yder]

I also need to say I have sharpened my INFI Skinny ASH-1 to a thin convex edge just like that of the fallkniven knives and it doesn't roll easy. If you say VG10 holds an angle of 22 to 25, you need to consider a convex edge of 22-25 degrees which is convexed has obviously more degrees in the imediately neighborhood of the cutting edge.

[docnightfall]

@out5yder

I see. We have different methods of convexing. I use Japanese waterstones, and I do not convex by thickening the edge itself. I set the edge at a known angle first and create the convexity by completely smoothing away the bevel shoulders.

I don't convex by thickening the edge. I convex by thinning everything behind the edge.

[nephildevil]

say whatever you want about fallkniven, my F1 is the best and most trusty knife i got :p

don't have a busse tho

but they seem to big and clumsy for anything else than playing or chopping/batoning anyway

[mrbeligos]

the way i see it both excellent knives, not sledge hammers. i own both kinds...

[out5yder]

So, you work for them!

It is understandable why you're so offended. But I tell you the truth this knife doesn't diserve its money! And I don't work for anybody and I am not paid by anybody in the knife industry. I'm simply a dissapointed user who wants others to know what this knife really is before spending their money on it.

[out5yder]

and maybe because fallkniven does not treat it termically enough; maybe they only quench it in a hurry. I don't know exactly. But what I know for sure is that it chips too easy for such an expensive, large outdoor blade.

[out5yder]

The Fallkniven chipped exactly like glass (pieces of the steel broke and jumped out of it). And the busse is also 58-60RC hardness. Not all the steels are chipping that badly at 59RC. But VG10 does! Because it is hardened too close to its limits and because it's a stainless (having too much chrome which makes it brittle and sensible).

[out5yder]

If you search through my videos here, you'll find where I hit the rocks intentionally and really hard, repeatedly with the busse. And that's not the factory edge, but a really thinned edge regrinded and convexed by me, thinner than the A2 factory one. You can see the edge deforms and got stamped, but only slightly, not that bad as the fallkniven. And the small chips on the busse edge have exactly the sape of the rock, which means they are actually stamps not chips.

[out5yder]

And that's only because fallkniven invests a lot in marketing and in censoring all people on the forums and banning everybody saying something bad even when they say true things.

[out5yder]

Do you work for Fallkniven? Do they pay you?! It is very interesting how I found a lot of persons being dissapointed with their fallknivens even for eddge holding. Hunters finding 3G steel PHK having significantly lower edge retention than a Buck Kalinga in ATS34 steel (for example) in wild bour skinning and many others., while the forums are full of lies about how appreciated fallkniven knives are as the best in the world.

[out5yder]

I would not say the center is for excelent edge holding. I feel its edge holding similar to 440C.. I would call it medium, not excelent. It's about 3 times lower than SGPS and there are many steels comparable with SGPS for edge holding.

As for prying, I bent the tip of this knife in wood without puting too much power on it. The 420J2 sides are "fukin' tough" but not hard enough to really rezist hard prying. You can also see it breaking on knifetests;com where a much thinner bayonet didn't break.

[out5yder]

No shit! The Fallkniven A2 was the gratest dissapointment from all my knives ever! Its edge chips exactly like glass when hits something rezistant. It is worst than most cheaper knives!

By the way, where are your videos?!

[pjhaas]

Aren't those hazelnuts?

[lsutigers1010]

2 awsome knives iam thinking about getting a busse ash 1