I think these demonstators should get a real job!! like someone has said before, when you get ill what medicines do you take an dont tell me its nothing at all. Where do you think these medicines come from!! Your not clever enough to work it out are you. All you do is cause a big fuss about nothing
Blue chocolate skulls: as it turns out, TDogg is correct, at least in the U.S. Animal testing is required for FDA approval.
But on a different note, perhaps you could enlighten other readers. Exactly what did the protesters in this video accomplish, other than messing up traffic and diverting officers from other duties?
Laws have changed. They will continue to change. We just want the laws that make animals property to change.
These protesters were at the very least, attempting to make their opinions known using their government promised free speech. I suppose free speech isn't so free.
"I'm witnessing to ensure you're doing your job propery?" What is that!? Police have a duty to protect public means. Blocking roads and pavements with indecisive people claiming they're standing watching irrelevant things doesn't quite cut it when a demonstration is due to end. Get out of the way.
I SWARE that ever sense i have bcome a vegetarian i have never used mediciine because not eating meat helped my immune system improve while my family has gotten sick many times...hey guess wat IM STILL HERE!!!
what about people who are born sick. or people with cancer. im shore you wouldn't want any one you know to die because they didnt have medicine. plus one day you will get very sick and you will rely on medicines to survive as will everyone. and also one of the reasons you arnt sick is because of vaccinations which are tested on animals.
i have had family with cancer but they have overcome it b/c i was a vegetarian (good karma in eyes of God) but hello there are better companies that dont test on animals that have cured more people than companies that do test on animals...look it up instead of running ur mouth
god made humans to kill and eat other animals that's what life is all about. if you don't eat meat then you will become ill. and also it is the law in most countries that you have to test on animals before you can on humans so bull shit to that comment.
wtf r u talking about now idiot....stop making stuff up to try and sound like u can win cuz u will always be a failure when u believe in animal testing
it is the law in the united kingdom that you have to test on animals before humans can use it. that is a fact. also there is nothing wrong with eating meat so dont call me stupid when i use facts and my reasonable opinion. im not saying it is right to test on animals but that it is necessary.
it is NOT necessary, it is just people like you who support it and come up with this "needy" shit to justify your cruelties.....so all of you can suck it
i believe it is ALL unneccassary because its true it is cruel and there are many alternatives, there is a site that gives a list of all the companies with products that DO NOT test on animals because it is ALL UNNECESARY
oh wow. do you really think that you know more about the necessity of animal testing than all the scientists who actually do it?
Can you name a pharmaceutical company that doesn't test on animals? And i mean real medicine, not "homeopathetic" bullshit. See, you can't. You're making up things to support your idealistic world view. The world isn't as nice as you want it to be.
@bluechocolateskulls I'm all for testing on death row inmates. Rather than wasting the taxpayers' dollars by taking up space in prisons, make them pay for their crimes as research subjects. If the experiments don't kill them, eventually a lethal injection will.
"Reasonable opinion" is not a fact. It is certainly an opinion, but reasonable is an opinion as well. And it might not be right but it is necessary? Do you even know what you're saying? What ever happened to the kindness of the human heart? You can't say there's nothing wrong with eating meat, as that claim is completely unsupported by evidence, as well as incredibly opinionated.
They test on animals because it gives them an excuse and a buffer against legal action if the drugs harm someone. They can say they performed the requisite testing so they're not at fault, never mind that the different physiology of (other) animals makes the testing often irrelevant. Thalidomide was animal tested and then caused birth defects in humans. And now the puppy mills that supply dogs for testing have a vested interests in keeping the experiments going.
I live in Oxford. Trust me, these protesters are loonies. One of them dug up a dead relative of one of the scientists and put the dead body on the scientists doorstep. They also tried to knife the head architect of the lab. Personally, they all deserve deportation or a firing squad (yes, I'm a traditionalist).
I do wonder about the mentality of some of the protestors, the recent case, a good example. They havent done a lot of good for the genuine protestors or the cause.
There is no doubt in my mind that some drugs have to be tested on animals. However the suffering inflicted on the poor animals is barbaric, the killing for fur, the testing of cosmetics and smoking products is hideous and barbaric.
The prolonged and outragious suffering of primates id cryable and the treatment of animal rights protesters shameful.
Provided no violence is used by the protesters they have a lawful right to speak for what cannot speak for themselves.
Thank you. The prolonged suffering of animals by Huntington life sciences is deplorable and has no place in today's world.
In testing on animals necessary drugs we all benefit, but not to inflict the suffering that goes on. Prolonged tests of awful suffering are not needed and not disclosed to the public.
The police act as thugs in these lawful demo's and their conduct outragious.
The household products we all buy need to be exposed for what they support such barbarity.
hey spellcandles, the police act as thugs? Wow nice one, so because their disrupting you from destroying public property they're suddenly thugs. Buddy I've been over the world and you think this is bad these protesters would of been quite shocked had they of done this in Red Square or China for example. The police are very polite in this video seriosly they would be battered had they of done this in other countries dude.
When scientists who dedicate their lives 2 curing deseases that are painful, debilitating, terminal, deseases that literally eat 1 from inside, when these people are painted as sadists whos only purpose in life is 2 hurt rats & watch with delight the results, I can only hope that 1 day when u have to make a decision on whether to undergo a life saving surgery, to take a painkiller or antibiotics, all of which were developed thanks 2 animal research I hope at least on that day you will shut up.
I was there yesterday ~ cops with cameras ~ said "cheese" as I signed the petition against Oxford University's completely unnecessary animal cruelty ~ vivisection for the sake of getting grants ~ no possible medical or scientific merit. This a feckin nazi police state when such barbaric practices are defended by the state. Boycott OXFORD ~ I will from now on.
well it dont take a genius to see that an animal loves to be tested on cuz if i was an animal i would of hated it if i was was loocked up hurt and put trough pain just to see a human live a happy life.
I'm in the middle of a legal case right now in the USA... I'm being charged with "Targeted Residential Picketing Prohibited"... along with 15 others... 4 people were arrested... when we were merely doing a neighborhood outreach to teach people about vivisection... What are police and government so afraid of when it comes to animal rights activists?
It's good that there are people out there who are prepared to protest. It concerns me that over the last 10 years there have been so many moves to prevent peaceful protests.
If 82% of reaserch would be unnecessary no one would pump in hundreds of milions a year in research.So get life protesting pricks , these animals has more rights than not one man on thi planet.Thanks to science some ppl can live longer.
Every one of those daft Muppets protesting has had the good fortune to live in a health system which through research on rats etc has most likely saved their lives or a loved one (even a pet rat).So if they feel so strongly about treatments got through experiments on rats etc they should REFUSE it!! Or refuse it being used on any of their family,children included.I wonder what most of those fools would do ....?? Thank you Thames Valley Police and Labs.
mikeat48...What you fuckin on about idiot....GO AND DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH AND YOU WILL FIND THAT THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE DIE EVERY YEAR INCLUDING CHILDREN FROM DRUGS TESTED ON ANIMALS. ANIMALS ARE A POOR MODEL FOR HUMAN ILLNESSES. 82% OF DR'S IN THE UK HAVE STATED THIS FACT. YOUR SO UNEDUCATED. GET A LIFE ASSHOLE......HAHAHAHA
Your all a bunch of stupid know it alls, spouting this you've heard on t.v., and that you've read in a magazine. When oh when can we get back to experimenting on humans? WE USED TO, and surely it would be MUCH more effective. If I had my way, I'd take the scalpol to your mother, myself. Get the fuck off animals, pick on some-one your own size. Your just a bunch of divvys. DIV!! The Victorians were TERRIFIED of medical people. You'd all be screaming "Human rights", and shitting your pants.TRUE!!
That's a nice plan if your objective is the depletion of the human population. If you were given to choice to kill a rat or kill yourself... would you kill yourself? Same concept - and this is coming from an animal lover. I don't know how humans can be cruel to animals but testing on rats, as apposed to humans, is just logic.
Wow and these protesters are all violent thugs arent they? Like all Muslims are responsible for 9/11 and the London bombings... Amazing that your brick throwing never got in the papers surely a story like that is worth its weight in gold?
Well, presumably the brick throwing wasn't a huge conspiracy, but I do disagree with their beliefs to the extent that I would go as far as saying that I hate all those who support them.
ALF are psychotic maniacs, and annoy me personally more than Al Qaeda. Aaaaaaaand, the Oxford protesters are monumentally stupid, and when you argue with them on Broad street, they debate with all the lucidity and clear thinking of the unemployed cretins that they are.
well, the information on your user page implies that I would do well to avoid you. so maybe my comment was meant as a personal insult. Why do you people try and ruin matriculation with your "Shame on you" chant. Not all students dissect animals. Are you by any chance jealous that you couldn't get into Oxbridge/imperial (who all carry out vivisection).
your comment doesnt bother me in the slightest. oh and thanks for reading my profile. now you know me so so well, that yes, id advise you to avoid me. DUUH
Then why did you inform me that you were going to take it as a personal insult? And answer my question from my previous post, or at least don't leave me hanging... ;)
no i am not jealous nor did i wish to 'get into Oxbridge etc' and i am not violent. i am an animal rights activist. i am not against science research, i am against animal experiments. carry on with the insults, they always amuse me. ;-)
They amuse me too, that's why I do them, to vent mild anger caused by other things. I assumed that's what everyone did in the temples of stupidity (mine included) that are youtube comment boards, so I am effectively flaming you I guess. I do dissagree with your philosophy though.
I think animal testing and experiment is horrible!! for anyone who says otherwise should be ashamed of themselves...no1, himans or animals shoulb be abused!! but animal experiments are not needed! its not going to benefit humans if animals are experimented on!just because a cure to a disease or whatever cures animals doesnt mean it will work on humans we have different bodies and systems....why do they have to test shampoo and household cleaners on poor defenseless animals!! its sick!!
For all you moronic freaks out there, humans are animals except we can verbalize our thoughts and emotions. Get real, same organs, need food, need water, Exactly the same. Idiots...
We have a totally different physiology to animals you cretin otherwise all the cancers we have cured in mice would have been available to humans... Think, Engage Brain, Comment...
Meh, not TOTALLY different. Pig organs can be used in humans. Plus a lot of proteins, especially enzymes, are the same in both humans and other animals. Why would people dissect animals if it didn't work? And, er... try engaging the brain before thinking.
Police 'brutally' arguing and 'aggressively' asking to move people on. Wow, this is real controversial expose of police unreasonably trying to prevent damage and injury and . . . what was that . . . did one of them almost argue with the self-righteous demonstrators! Get his name and number . . . don't need to know why. I'm sure he was discourteous in some way.
My only problem with all of this is that the police have to ask, ask and ask again. It should be one request to move on and then the polite requests end. Why are the police accountable when the trouble makers are not called to account!
Animal rights? I saw lots of animals being given plenty of rights here!
what do you mean police have to ask ask and ask again? trouble makers??
this was a protest..since when has it been illegal to protest? oh wait no the fu**ing gov and police have banned those now! people like you give them the power to ban civil rights
Exactly - it is NOT a contoversial expose. It is not exactly what was described but it is exactly what happened. What I see is the great unwashed trying to force the police into a corner.
Whatever your animal rights position, the police are only there to prevent a breach of the peace and if that means a jobles rabble can't do exactly what they want about things they don't full understand, then that's good with me.
I think you lost all respect from anyone when you use such phrases as the great unwashed... Many anti vivisectionists are professionals in various areas I happen to know GP's lawyers, midwives, teachers. You need to stop making such stupid comments and learn a little more about what protest has achieved for you as a person.
Should have been more specific - I was referring to the people who are out to make trouble by attempting to provoke the police who are simply trying to maintain the peace - watch the video.
I have no problem at all, with genuine objection being demonstrated with passion - peacefully.
why should police have rights? they take ours away? and ppl like you make me sick...no intelegence, no compassion!
you are a rascist, a speciesist, ignorant, arogant and beligernet.
the black civil rights movement, womens lib...you do realise that compared to those...we r the freedom fighters and you are the sexist, rasicsts* monsters...who will be defeated
So far in this thread .. i as an activist have been told that i am unwashed, Unemployed etc .. yet i pride myself on my cleanliness and i own my own company :):):) ..
From underneath which stone do these pathetic w?????s come from????
I'm against you, and I'm about as right wing as a socialist sock puppet. If humans are animals (which we are) why shouldn't we behave as the animals do, and inflict as much damage on other species as is necessary for the benefit of our species. Animals do it, you must be pretty speciesist to assume that humans are above that. And I've seen you guys united, it's like a festival of poor argumentative technique on Broad st.
SPEAK annoy me to be honest... they carry out arson and have planted explosives and all kinds of things. Don't they think? Things like that could kill people! Do they like animals more than people? Would've thought same species empathy would make people inclined to like people more...
Don't be so ridiculous. Why don't you back up your allegations with examples. Oh yeah... you can't. That's because SPEAK have never planted bombs, set fire to anything or flown planes into buildings. Stop the slander, stop the torture, save the animals.
I belive animal testing brings benefits to humanity.Animal rights campaigners have a right to protest outside the new oxford lab but they must do so in a respectfull and non threatening way.They do not have the right to say that every student or staff member is a potential tagert.Contray to what some protesters think direct action does not work.
You people would rather kill humans and preserve animal life than you would attempt to save humans being killed in Africa or the Middle East. You people love animals and not humans. You support organizations like PETA which kills more animals than it takes in. Who are the real enemy? You people are nothing but hypocritical psychopaths.
animal rights care about humans a huge deal fool, vir o xx killed a huge amount of humans after being called 'safe' during animal clinical tests, then they move it to africa to test it on babies who could not get milk from their mothers-they put it in powder milk.
If I don't care about humans then why am I a human rights activist? Why do I refuse to buy clothes made in sweatshops? Why am I in an anti-war/anti-racism group? Humans ARE animals. If you harm humans you are NOT an animal rights activist.
... you're using a classification from a physical science to make a social point? In physics, work means the product of an unbalanced force and its resulting motion; should everything that applies force resulting in motion have a wage proportional to "the number of newtons of applied force multiplied by the number of metres of resulting motion"? If you recognize they're different meanings of work, why not consider that about the term "animals"?
These people need to realise that their right to free speech only goes so far. While they have the right to say whatever they like, they do not have the right to shout it down a megaphone, whilst sat in the middle of a road for the whole afternoon. The police are doing their job since a serious public nuisance was being caused.
How can it only go so far? How about if I take a megaphone and shout obscenities in the middle of Hyde park on a Saturday afternoon while people are trying to enjoy themselves? How about if some sicko goes up to a young girl and starts talking dirty? How about if I stand up in a cinema and announce that I am about to detonate a bomb? Of course the right to free speech only goes so far!!!
Everyone should be able to say anything they like, the problem is that people do not have the right to enforce their voice upon others, as the people I outlined above and the guys in the video are doing.
Those SPEAK activists can be really annoying. The demonstration was making a huge amount of noise before the police turned up, and generally pissing people off. I was there later on when Mel and other got arrested, and i saw police dong their job very well, while the SPEAK activists did all they could to get in the way and generally make a nuisance.
VeganButterfly: "Humans are a species of animal. So I should eat you, test on you and make you fetch my paper? Sick speciesist bastard.. "
Speciesist? Priceless! Keep it up. Comments like that help the average person see what they're dealing with. ONLY a human (and a weak minded one at that) could conceive of that concept. Every other species will always side with their own species, except the sub-human (Petus Ignoramus)
What's "priceless"? That I called you that? Do you think I made it up. Check Dictionarydotcom, it's an actual word. People will always side with a family member over a complete stranger but that doesn't mean the stranger is less of a being and should be exploited, tortured or killed. Bias is not a reason to hurt someone.
Although I support the cause here, I have to say that police shouldn't be made the enemy. The man holding the camera, and who has presumably edited and posted the video, is obstinate and passive aggressive toward the police officiers who appear to be peacefully defusing the situation rather than the "terror force" portrayed through the captions.
fuck you ericschwin 22! if you have no problem with "animals eating each other" then go to a zoo and eaten by a lion,u fool!!! animal testing kills people!!!!
I fully support Animal testing, it's bullshit what these protestors are doing because it's not helping.
Animals eat us too!? Have some of you guys realized that? We are high above the food chain and we will make this legal, and there is nothing you guys can do about it.
omg how can you say that animal wxperimentation is right?! its an outrage!! how would you like to be shoved in a cage being cut open, made to inhale toxic fumes, injected with poisonous chemicals or have tumours injected into you to see if they can cure cancer!! its scandalous and not necessary... animals and humans have the same feelings and both feel pain!!
Dear Teddy Boy and Bob Greenhouse, I have decided to reply to your comments (against my better judgement)
The only reason you think animal tests work and provide results is because your government has told you that this is the case. Hundreds of thousands of people die worldwide because of the misleading results from vivisection which go on to cause un-foreseen side effects. Below are a few examples of when vivisection has failed mankind.
1. Penicillin was initially discovered without animals, and was not widely used until 10 years later when animal tests showed its potential for in vivo anti-bacterial uses. How do you think Florey and Chain shared in the nobel prize.
2. Vioxx had over 80 million prescriptions. So around 1 in 500 were affected. The same result is found in animals, but it would have taken thousands of animal tests to have seen it, more than is "worth the risk". Vioxx passed clinical trials in humans for the same reason.
One question I ask those who use or support animal research is this: If a drug has no effect or an adverse effect (e.g. death sickness etc) on an animal and a drug is still released into the drug market for use in humans why bother with the animal research in the first place? To which they might reply that doesn't happen (it does) So what happens if that drug kills all animals an ISNT given to humans?? Have we missed our wonder drug that cures cancer?
i respect wot u people are doing , although you arnt doing it in a very clever way, youve managed to make the mainstream media and population hate u, when they could be on your side, terrorising people is not going to achive anything you are just breeding hate, viva la revelotion
Matt-they want to cash in on experiments, they want to make money out of what they do-the media will never be on our side as we're taking there preciouse money away
I am intrigued, how do you take the medias money, Zac? And the lab in Oxford makes no money (most of the time) it's for undergraduate research experiments. I think they sometimes let other companies use it, but then it's not them who are carrying out the experiments.
Nazis act out their opinions on people all over the world using violence. - I dont care about their fucking opinions. I understand you are not a nazi but I will never accept the opinion of a fascist.
No,not Pro-Nazi.The point I'm making is both are sets of political Ideals which have the ability to offend."SAVIOUR ANIMALS" Has the right to complain about removing the badge if he would be happy for someone else to have a pro Nazi badge. Laws must be equal and without prejudice.
Nazism is based on non equality and predujice. We live in a "democracy" apparently this should mean that I am entitled to my rights and views as long as they do not infrige on others rights and views. - fuck the nazis - Heres to Antifa for keep the scum of our streets.
This is exactly my point. Once again I DO NOY AGREE WITH NAZISM. But everyone now is "MY POINT OF VIEW IS RIGHT FUCK EVERYONE ELSES" Its not right. Agree with it or not everyone has a right to thier opinion.Nazi or not
Omg you are totally right!! I was at a demo in dublin, ireland before against vibisection and its an outrage that so many people thisnk that animal experimentation is right!!
I was there, and an officer stopped me and tried to take my details for having an ANTI-nazi picture on my bag. He said he found it offensive. Says it all doesn't it.
The phrase "couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery" comes to mind with that police "operation". Got the feeling they just wanted 2 get back 2 the station 4 a nice warm cuppa. Keep up the gr8 work folks!
Well, at least in England the police actually argue with protesters. Here in America they just beat/tear gas you.
yaaaaaaaaaaaarghhh 3 months ago
that accent is hawt :D
1577lisa 6 months ago
You think you are all so clever... Such a pity you can't even spell escort.
Morg211 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I think these demonstators should get a real job!! like someone has said before, when you get ill what medicines do you take an dont tell me its nothing at all. Where do you think these medicines come from!! Your not clever enough to work it out are you. All you do is cause a big fuss about nothing
shanez26 1 year ago
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shanez26 1 year ago
Facist Police - this is why they become targets at demonstrations due to the shit way they treat people and misuse the law.
brunster64 2 years ago
Blue chocolate skulls: as it turns out, TDogg is correct, at least in the U.S. Animal testing is required for FDA approval.
But on a different note, perhaps you could enlighten other readers. Exactly what did the protesters in this video accomplish, other than messing up traffic and diverting officers from other duties?
ALo12341 2 years ago
the right to free speech.
Liam50LB 2 years ago
Laws have changed. They will continue to change. We just want the laws that make animals property to change.
These protesters were at the very least, attempting to make their opinions known using their government promised free speech. I suppose free speech isn't so free.
thefinnlord 2 years ago
"I'm witnessing to ensure you're doing your job propery?" What is that!? Police have a duty to protect public means. Blocking roads and pavements with indecisive people claiming they're standing watching irrelevant things doesn't quite cut it when a demonstration is due to end. Get out of the way.
Transcendentality 2 years ago
i believe in animal testing cause it saves lives.
TDogg186 2 years ago
how bout we test on u dumbass
1FABIOO 2 years ago
how about you dont use any medicines and see were you end up. im not dumb because i know that this has to be done for a good reason.
TDogg186 2 years ago
I SWARE that ever sense i have bcome a vegetarian i have never used mediciine because not eating meat helped my immune system improve while my family has gotten sick many times...hey guess wat IM STILL HERE!!!
1FABIOO 2 years ago
what about people who are born sick. or people with cancer. im shore you wouldn't want any one you know to die because they didnt have medicine. plus one day you will get very sick and you will rely on medicines to survive as will everyone. and also one of the reasons you arnt sick is because of vaccinations which are tested on animals.
TDogg186 2 years ago
i have had family with cancer but they have overcome it b/c i was a vegetarian (good karma in eyes of God) but hello there are better companies that dont test on animals that have cured more people than companies that do test on animals...look it up instead of running ur mouth
bluechocolateskulls 2 years ago
god made humans to kill and eat other animals that's what life is all about. if you don't eat meat then you will become ill. and also it is the law in most countries that you have to test on animals before you can on humans so bull shit to that comment.
TDogg186 2 years ago
wtf r u talking about now idiot....stop making stuff up to try and sound like u can win cuz u will always be a failure when u believe in animal testing
bluechocolateskulls 2 years ago
it is the law in the united kingdom that you have to test on animals before humans can use it. that is a fact. also there is nothing wrong with eating meat so dont call me stupid when i use facts and my reasonable opinion. im not saying it is right to test on animals but that it is necessary.
TDogg186 2 years ago
well the UN can suck it!
it is NOT necessary, it is just people like you who support it and come up with this "needy" shit to justify your cruelties.....so all of you can suck it
bluechocolateskulls 2 years ago
i agree with some of it being unnecessary but some of it is. and unfortunately it is cruel but there's no other way.
TDogg186 2 years ago
i believe it is ALL unneccassary because its true it is cruel and there are many alternatives, there is a site that gives a list of all the companies with products that DO NOT test on animals because it is ALL UNNECESARY
bluechocolateskulls 2 years ago
but for drugs it is necessary for the mean time until stem cell research is better developed.
TDogg186 2 years ago
actually it isnt....there are companies that give money for volunteers to be researched on or testing on bad people....thas the right way
bluechocolateskulls 2 years ago
oh wow. do you really think that you know more about the necessity of animal testing than all the scientists who actually do it?
Can you name a pharmaceutical company that doesn't test on animals? And i mean real medicine, not "homeopathetic" bullshit. See, you can't. You're making up things to support your idealistic world view. The world isn't as nice as you want it to be.
oxyTV 2 years ago
@bluechocolateskulls I'm all for testing on death row inmates. Rather than wasting the taxpayers' dollars by taking up space in prisons, make them pay for their crimes as research subjects. If the experiments don't kill them, eventually a lethal injection will.
mmmbad 1 year ago
"Reasonable opinion" is not a fact. It is certainly an opinion, but reasonable is an opinion as well. And it might not be right but it is necessary? Do you even know what you're saying? What ever happened to the kindness of the human heart? You can't say there's nothing wrong with eating meat, as that claim is completely unsupported by evidence, as well as incredibly opinionated.
thefinnlord 2 years ago
Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.
MrMoremercy 2 years ago
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Glendale1835 2 years ago
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Glendale1835 2 years ago
Police AGAIN misusing the law. Bunch of Nazis.
brunster64 2 years ago
Step 1. Build an animal testing Laboratory
Step 2. Guard said laboratory with trained attack dogs
Step 3. ?????????
Step 4. PROFIT!!
tunaman100 2 years ago
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Glendale1835 2 years ago
They test on animals because it gives them an excuse and a buffer against legal action if the drugs harm someone. They can say they performed the requisite testing so they're not at fault, never mind that the different physiology of (other) animals makes the testing often irrelevant. Thalidomide was animal tested and then caused birth defects in humans. And now the puppy mills that supply dogs for testing have a vested interests in keeping the experiments going.
godbotherer1909 2 years ago 2
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Glendale1835 2 years ago
Well said Glendale1835!!
AnimalMagic1 2 years ago
I live in Oxford. Trust me, these protesters are loonies. One of them dug up a dead relative of one of the scientists and put the dead body on the scientists doorstep. They also tried to knife the head architect of the lab. Personally, they all deserve deportation or a firing squad (yes, I'm a traditionalist).
Turnipthatistasty 3 years ago
I do wonder about the mentality of some of the protestors, the recent case, a good example. They havent done a lot of good for the genuine protestors or the cause.
hateanimalabuse 3 years ago
There is no doubt in my mind that some drugs have to be tested on animals. However the suffering inflicted on the poor animals is barbaric, the killing for fur, the testing of cosmetics and smoking products is hideous and barbaric.
The prolonged and outragious suffering of primates id cryable and the treatment of animal rights protesters shameful.
Provided no violence is used by the protesters they have a lawful right to speak for what cannot speak for themselves.
shame on the police.
spellcandles 3 years ago
Well said, my sentiments entirely!
hateanimalabuse 3 years ago
Thank you. The prolonged suffering of animals by Huntington life sciences is deplorable and has no place in today's world.
In testing on animals necessary drugs we all benefit, but not to inflict the suffering that goes on. Prolonged tests of awful suffering are not needed and not disclosed to the public.
The police act as thugs in these lawful demo's and their conduct outragious.
The household products we all buy need to be exposed for what they support such barbarity.
spellcandles 3 years ago
hey spellcandles, the police act as thugs? Wow nice one, so because their disrupting you from destroying public property they're suddenly thugs. Buddy I've been over the world and you think this is bad these protesters would of been quite shocked had they of done this in Red Square or China for example. The police are very polite in this video seriosly they would be battered had they of done this in other countries dude.
jamesthq 3 years ago
Because you WILL choose the medicine.
iniquissima 3 years ago
The medicine is valuable but the public are unaware of such methods inflicted.
Medicine yes, but not at ANY price.
spellcandles 3 years ago
When scientists who dedicate their lives 2 curing deseases that are painful, debilitating, terminal, deseases that literally eat 1 from inside, when these people are painted as sadists whos only purpose in life is 2 hurt rats & watch with delight the results, I can only hope that 1 day when u have to make a decision on whether to undergo a life saving surgery, to take a painkiller or antibiotics, all of which were developed thanks 2 animal research I hope at least on that day you will shut up.
iniquissima 3 years ago
u need to do some research. animal testing actually hurts humans does not help.
and yes I beleive vivisectors are sick psychopathic freaks who else could torture animals all day?
Clawsywp 3 years ago 2
fucking idiots makes me feel sick when i see animals being treated like that..
charwentzz 3 years ago
I was there yesterday ~ cops with cameras ~ said "cheese" as I signed the petition against Oxford University's completely unnecessary animal cruelty ~ vivisection for the sake of getting grants ~ no possible medical or scientific merit. This a feckin nazi police state when such barbaric practices are defended by the state. Boycott OXFORD ~ I will from now on.
bluensunshine 3 years ago
Yes i will too, and all the other household names that support these bastards.
spellcandles 3 years ago
Correction whateverUdo2008 .. the protestors in this video obviously do!!
Not only do they have the intelligence to know right from wrong .. they have the courage and decency to stand up for the poor animals!!
AnimalMagic1 3 years ago
columsx:
Only SOME humans have far more advanced brains than animals. The protestors in this video obviously don't.
whateveUdo2008 3 years ago
humans have far more advanced brains than animals??
AnimalMagic1 3 years ago
yh so why do u need animals to test on then if humans have far more advanced brains than animals trie and anwser tha then if u can
helsthug 3 years ago
how do we know that the animal sare in pain?
columnsx 3 years ago
If i were to perform needless tests on you that many people say .. cause you harm .. then kill you .. how would i know that you are in pain??
AnimalMagic1 3 years ago
its easy, humans can speak and show emotion, enimals do not have that capability and humans have far more advanced brains than animals
columnsx 3 years ago
well it dont take a genius to see that an animal loves to be tested on cuz if i was an animal i would of hated it if i was was loocked up hurt and put trough pain just to see a human live a happy life.
helsthug 3 years ago
I'm in the middle of a legal case right now in the USA... I'm being charged with "Targeted Residential Picketing Prohibited"... along with 15 others... 4 people were arrested... when we were merely doing a neighborhood outreach to teach people about vivisection... What are police and government so afraid of when it comes to animal rights activists?
xacrox 3 years ago
I like Science.
MyStaticAge 3 years ago
It's good that there are people out there who are prepared to protest. It concerns me that over the last 10 years there have been so many moves to prevent peaceful protests.
eggeggface 3 years ago
If 82% of reaserch would be unnecessary no one would pump in hundreds of milions a year in research.So get life protesting pricks , these animals has more rights than not one man on thi planet.Thanks to science some ppl can live longer.
domin323 3 years ago
Lets just kill all the animals and the animal rights protesters, problem solved. KILL THEM ALL, END OF!
f00king 3 years ago
If you kill all the animals, there won´t be any protesters. Because people can´t be cruel to things that doesn´t exist.
polisflickan 3 years ago
Every one of those daft Muppets protesting has had the good fortune to live in a health system which through research on rats etc has most likely saved their lives or a loved one (even a pet rat).So if they feel so strongly about treatments got through experiments on rats etc they should REFUSE it!! Or refuse it being used on any of their family,children included.I wonder what most of those fools would do ....?? Thank you Thames Valley Police and Labs.
mikeat48 3 years ago
mikeat48...What you fuckin on about idiot....GO AND DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH AND YOU WILL FIND THAT THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE DIE EVERY YEAR INCLUDING CHILDREN FROM DRUGS TESTED ON ANIMALS. ANIMALS ARE A POOR MODEL FOR HUMAN ILLNESSES. 82% OF DR'S IN THE UK HAVE STATED THIS FACT. YOUR SO UNEDUCATED. GET A LIFE ASSHOLE......HAHAHAHA
beagle 3 years ago
Settle petal.
jonathantosio 3 years ago
animals are just like humans they have rights as much as we do U R PUTTING ANIMALS THROUGH PAIN WAKE UP AND NOTICE THAT
helsthug 3 years ago
Your all a bunch of stupid know it alls, spouting this you've heard on t.v., and that you've read in a magazine. When oh when can we get back to experimenting on humans? WE USED TO, and surely it would be MUCH more effective. If I had my way, I'd take the scalpol to your mother, myself. Get the fuck off animals, pick on some-one your own size. Your just a bunch of divvys. DIV!! The Victorians were TERRIFIED of medical people. You'd all be screaming "Human rights", and shitting your pants.TRUE!!
cobweb113 3 years ago
That's a nice plan if your objective is the depletion of the human population. If you were given to choice to kill a rat or kill yourself... would you kill yourself? Same concept - and this is coming from an animal lover. I don't know how humans can be cruel to animals but testing on rats, as apposed to humans, is just logic.
SelkiesTEO 3 years ago
Nice one for cataching the thugs on camera, breaking the law as per usual. ACAB!
untilallarefree 3 years ago
just do as your told get out of the fucking wat muppet!
KieranClarke999 3 years ago
I am 100% for animal rights!
Guardian77777 4 years ago 2
i fucking hate these protesters, they threw a brick at a biologist friend of mine. They are generally the stupidest people in the whole of Oxford.
revilo314 4 years ago
Wow and these protesters are all violent thugs arent they? Like all Muslims are responsible for 9/11 and the London bombings... Amazing that your brick throwing never got in the papers surely a story like that is worth its weight in gold?
warntv 4 years ago
Well, presumably the brick throwing wasn't a huge conspiracy, but I do disagree with their beliefs to the extent that I would go as far as saying that I hate all those who support them.
ALF are psychotic maniacs, and annoy me personally more than Al Qaeda. Aaaaaaaand, the Oxford protesters are monumentally stupid, and when you argue with them on Broad street, they debate with all the lucidity and clear thinking of the unemployed cretins that they are.
revilo314 4 years ago
Don't listen to "Warntv", he's a simple minded prick who needs an education.
TikiKid 4 years ago
i think its stupid to say that when you dont even know thease protesters. i take it as a personal insult, as i am one. Do you know me?? i think not
butterflybabe666 4 years ago
well, the information on your user page implies that I would do well to avoid you. so maybe my comment was meant as a personal insult. Why do you people try and ruin matriculation with your "Shame on you" chant. Not all students dissect animals. Are you by any chance jealous that you couldn't get into Oxbridge/imperial (who all carry out vivisection).
revilo314 4 years ago
your comment doesnt bother me in the slightest. oh and thanks for reading my profile. now you know me so so well, that yes, id advise you to avoid me. DUUH
butterflybabe666 4 years ago
Then why did you inform me that you were going to take it as a personal insult? And answer my question from my previous post, or at least don't leave me hanging... ;)
revilo314 4 years ago
no i am not jealous nor did i wish to 'get into Oxbridge etc' and i am not violent. i am an animal rights activist. i am not against science research, i am against animal experiments. carry on with the insults, they always amuse me. ;-)
butterflybabe666 4 years ago
They amuse me too, that's why I do them, to vent mild anger caused by other things. I assumed that's what everyone did in the temples of stupidity (mine included) that are youtube comment boards, so I am effectively flaming you I guess. I do dissagree with your philosophy though.
revilo314 4 years ago
fair enough just dont keep calling me a moron.
butterflybabe666 4 years ago
sorry it want you calling me a moron. you were calling me jealous etc. bloody hell so many pros so many insults, cant tell you all apart!!
butterflybabe666 4 years ago
We did farmer Brown anything is possible
rentchart 4 years ago
I think animal testing and experiment is horrible!! for anyone who says otherwise should be ashamed of themselves...no1, himans or animals shoulb be abused!! but animal experiments are not needed! its not going to benefit humans if animals are experimented on!just because a cure to a disease or whatever cures animals doesnt mean it will work on humans we have different bodies and systems....why do they have to test shampoo and household cleaners on poor defenseless animals!! its sick!!
icicles101 4 years ago
For all you moronic freaks out there, humans are animals except we can verbalize our thoughts and emotions. Get real, same organs, need food, need water, Exactly the same. Idiots...
TikiKid 4 years ago
We have a totally different physiology to animals you cretin otherwise all the cancers we have cured in mice would have been available to humans... Think, Engage Brain, Comment...
warntv 4 years ago 2
Meh, not TOTALLY different. Pig organs can be used in humans. Plus a lot of proteins, especially enzymes, are the same in both humans and other animals. Why would people dissect animals if it didn't work? And, er... try engaging the brain before thinking.
revilo314 4 years ago
Police 'brutally' arguing and 'aggressively' asking to move people on. Wow, this is real controversial expose of police unreasonably trying to prevent damage and injury and . . . what was that . . . did one of them almost argue with the self-righteous demonstrators! Get his name and number . . . don't need to know why. I'm sure he was discourteous in some way.
CurlieCornflake 4 years ago
Did I miss the bit in the description that claimed the video was a "controversial expose" or is the video exactly what was described?
warntv 4 years ago
Exactly my point!
CurlieCornflake 4 years ago
continued . . .
My only problem with all of this is that the police have to ask, ask and ask again. It should be one request to move on and then the polite requests end. Why are the police accountable when the trouble makers are not called to account!
Animal rights? I saw lots of animals being given plenty of rights here!
CurlieCornflake 4 years ago
what do you mean police have to ask ask and ask again? trouble makers??
this was a protest..since when has it been illegal to protest? oh wait no the fu**ing gov and police have banned those now! people like you give them the power to ban civil rights
bane39 4 years ago
Exactly - it is NOT a contoversial expose. It is not exactly what was described but it is exactly what happened. What I see is the great unwashed trying to force the police into a corner.
Whatever your animal rights position, the police are only there to prevent a breach of the peace and if that means a jobles rabble can't do exactly what they want about things they don't full understand, then that's good with me.
CurlieCornflake 4 years ago
I think you lost all respect from anyone when you use such phrases as the great unwashed... Many anti vivisectionists are professionals in various areas I happen to know GP's lawyers, midwives, teachers. You need to stop making such stupid comments and learn a little more about what protest has achieved for you as a person.
warntv 4 years ago
Should have been more specific - I was referring to the people who are out to make trouble by attempting to provoke the police who are simply trying to maintain the peace - watch the video.
I have no problem at all, with genuine objection being demonstrated with passion - peacefully.
CurlieCornflake 4 years ago
why should police have rights? they take ours away? and ppl like you make me sick...no intelegence, no compassion!
you are a rascist, a speciesist, ignorant, arogant and beligernet.
the black civil rights movement, womens lib...you do realise that compared to those...we r the freedom fighters and you are the sexist, rasicsts* monsters...who will be defeated
bane39 4 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Says it all really!
CurlieCornflake 4 years ago
Well said Bane39 ..
So far in this thread .. i as an activist have been told that i am unwashed, Unemployed etc .. yet i pride myself on my cleanliness and i own my own company :):):) ..
From underneath which stone do these pathetic w?????s come from????
AnimalMagic1 4 years ago
Let us unite against today's fascism: the speciesism! The fight shall go on, our will shall not be broken! RESISTANCE, WHATEVER IT TAKES!
kr92op1 4 years ago
Only uneducated rednecks are against us.
kr92op1 4 years ago
I'm against you, and I'm about as right wing as a socialist sock puppet. If humans are animals (which we are) why shouldn't we behave as the animals do, and inflict as much damage on other species as is necessary for the benefit of our species. Animals do it, you must be pretty speciesist to assume that humans are above that. And I've seen you guys united, it's like a festival of poor argumentative technique on Broad st.
revilo314 4 years ago
SPEAK annoy me to be honest... they carry out arson and have planted explosives and all kinds of things. Don't they think? Things like that could kill people! Do they like animals more than people? Would've thought same species empathy would make people inclined to like people more...
reallyrandomguy 4 years ago
Don't be so ridiculous. Why don't you back up your allegations with examples. Oh yeah... you can't. That's because SPEAK have never planted bombs, set fire to anything or flown planes into buildings. Stop the slander, stop the torture, save the animals.
alanbuttle 4 years ago
Great vid, fat vegan bastard! hehe :D
alanbuttle 4 years ago
I'm there Thursday x
SoilOfSin 4 years ago
Woot. Stop the animal testing
animall0versister 4 years ago
I belive animal testing brings benefits to humanity.Animal rights campaigners have a right to protest outside the new oxford lab but they must do so in a respectfull and non threatening way.They do not have the right to say that every student or staff member is a potential tagert.Contray to what some protesters think direct action does not work.
PRIZTINMAN 4 years ago
You people would rather kill humans and preserve animal life than you would attempt to save humans being killed in Africa or the Middle East. You people love animals and not humans. You support organizations like PETA which kills more animals than it takes in. Who are the real enemy? You people are nothing but hypocritical psychopaths.
Penn & Teller: Bullshit - PETA P1
Penn & Teller: Bullshit - PETA P2
Penn & Teller: Bullshit - PETA P3
the8jrfan 4 years ago
animal rights care about humans a huge deal fool, vir o xx killed a huge amount of humans after being called 'safe' during animal clinical tests, then they move it to africa to test it on babies who could not get milk from their mothers-they put it in powder milk.
RainmanKill 4 years ago
If I don't care about humans then why am I a human rights activist? Why do I refuse to buy clothes made in sweatshops? Why am I in an anti-war/anti-racism group? Humans ARE animals. If you harm humans you are NOT an animal rights activist.
VeganButterfly 4 years ago
"Humans ARE animals." - VeganButterfly
... you're using a classification from a physical science to make a social point? In physics, work means the product of an unbalanced force and its resulting motion; should everything that applies force resulting in motion have a wage proportional to "the number of newtons of applied force multiplied by the number of metres of resulting motion"? If you recognize they're different meanings of work, why not consider that about the term "animals"?
HiddenFacedMatt 4 years ago
These people need to realise that their right to free speech only goes so far. While they have the right to say whatever they like, they do not have the right to shout it down a megaphone, whilst sat in the middle of a road for the whole afternoon. The police are doing their job since a serious public nuisance was being caused.
plywooduk 4 years ago
How can the right to free speech only go so far, take your right wing BS and fuck off.
fatveganbstard 4 years ago
How can it only go so far? How about if I take a megaphone and shout obscenities in the middle of Hyde park on a Saturday afternoon while people are trying to enjoy themselves? How about if some sicko goes up to a young girl and starts talking dirty? How about if I stand up in a cinema and announce that I am about to detonate a bomb? Of course the right to free speech only goes so far!!!
plywooduk 4 years ago
Everyone should be able to say anything they like, the problem is that people do not have the right to enforce their voice upon others, as the people I outlined above and the guys in the video are doing.
plywooduk 4 years ago
Those SPEAK activists can be really annoying. The demonstration was making a huge amount of noise before the police turned up, and generally pissing people off. I was there later on when Mel and other got arrested, and i saw police dong their job very well, while the SPEAK activists did all they could to get in the way and generally make a nuisance.
plywooduk 4 years ago
who cares about animals, there animals ffs, eat em, test drugs on em, and make em fetch the godamn paper
ProfessionalAsshole1 4 years ago
Humans are a species of animal.
So I should eat you, test on you and make you fetch my paper?
Sick speciesist bastard..
VeganButterfly 4 years ago
surrrrre y not, if it makes others feel better
ProfessionalAsshole1 4 years ago
VeganButterfly: "Humans are a species of animal. So I should eat you, test on you and make you fetch my paper? Sick speciesist bastard.. "
Speciesist? Priceless! Keep it up. Comments like that help the average person see what they're dealing with. ONLY a human (and a weak minded one at that) could conceive of that concept. Every other species will always side with their own species, except the sub-human (Petus Ignoramus)
TTSinPA 4 years ago
What's "priceless"? That I called you that? Do you think I made it up. Check Dictionarydotcom, it's an actual word. People will always side with a family member over a complete stranger but that doesn't mean the stranger is less of a being and should be exploited, tortured or killed. Bias is not a reason to hurt someone.
VeganButterfly 4 years ago
you know what i feel like right now? i nice big juicy steak.
ProfessionalAsshole1 4 years ago
Police-Terror against animal-Liberation!
pfalzbuy 4 years ago
Hello fellow american
Giuliani is out of control.
All we hear from him is 9/11, but do you remember Rudy before then?
WE sure do.
Check out what our fellow ferrets are saying about him:
Just Search for nyferrets on youtube
Yours truly,
mike
leader of the ny ferrets
member of ferrets for freedom
nyferrets 4 years ago
Although I support the cause here, I have to say that police shouldn't be made the enemy. The man holding the camera, and who has presumably edited and posted the video, is obstinate and passive aggressive toward the police officiers who appear to be peacefully defusing the situation rather than the "terror force" portrayed through the captions.
tomchambers 4 years ago
God bless the activist. You give me HOPE!
rxlover 4 years ago
Those cops are a pain in the ass
mzzgiggles 4 years ago
fuck you ericschwin 22! if you have no problem with "animals eating each other" then go to a zoo and eaten by a lion,u fool!!! animal testing kills people!!!!
PC12345 4 years ago
I fully support Animal testing, it's bullshit what these protestors are doing because it's not helping.
Animals eat us too!? Have some of you guys realized that? We are high above the food chain and we will make this legal, and there is nothing you guys can do about it.
Abortion is legal and so is this... get over it!!
EricSchwin22 4 years ago
omg how can you say that animal wxperimentation is right?! its an outrage!! how would you like to be shoved in a cage being cut open, made to inhale toxic fumes, injected with poisonous chemicals or have tumours injected into you to see if they can cure cancer!! its scandalous and not necessary... animals and humans have the same feelings and both feel pain!!
icicles101 4 years ago
i love you guys i will be seeing u at the next protest mwah xxx
butterflybabe666 4 years ago
Dear Teddy Boy and Bob Greenhouse, I have decided to reply to your comments (against my better judgement)
The only reason you think animal tests work and provide results is because your government has told you that this is the case. Hundreds of thousands of people die worldwide because of the misleading results from vivisection which go on to cause un-foreseen side effects. Below are a few examples of when vivisection has failed mankind.
fatveganbstard 4 years ago
Penicillin: Delayed 12 years because no results were shown in animals (How many could have been saved?)
Vioxx: Caused approximately 140,000 heart attacks worldwide (Many fatal)
The list goes on, don't listen to me and don't listen to the news - check out British Medical Journals for the truth...
fatveganbstard 4 years ago
Fatveganbstard.
1. Penicillin was initially discovered without animals, and was not widely used until 10 years later when animal tests showed its potential for in vivo anti-bacterial uses. How do you think Florey and Chain shared in the nobel prize.
LondonProphet 4 years ago
2. Vioxx had over 80 million prescriptions. So around 1 in 500 were affected. The same result is found in animals, but it would have taken thousands of animal tests to have seen it, more than is "worth the risk". Vioxx passed clinical trials in humans for the same reason.
LondonProphet 4 years ago
One question I ask those who use or support animal research is this: If a drug has no effect or an adverse effect (e.g. death sickness etc) on an animal and a drug is still released into the drug market for use in humans why bother with the animal research in the first place? To which they might reply that doesn't happen (it does) So what happens if that drug kills all animals an ISNT given to humans?? Have we missed our wonder drug that cures cancer?
fatveganbstard 4 years ago
fatveganbstard What you are saying is totally right!! anyone who says otherwise has no concionce at all!! vaganism Rocks!!
icicles101 4 years ago
I fully support animal testing.
bobgreenhouse 4 years ago
terror and violence does work ,proven with farmer Brown keep up the good work soldiers
rentchart 4 years ago
I agree with animal testing for finding cures to illness.
teddyboy85 4 years ago
Smash hls
Zac606 5 years ago
i respect wot u people are doing , although you arnt doing it in a very clever way, youve managed to make the mainstream media and population hate u, when they could be on your side, terrorising people is not going to achive anything you are just breeding hate, viva la revelotion
mattyboy93 5 years ago
Matt-they want to cash in on experiments, they want to make money out of what they do-the media will never be on our side as we're taking there preciouse money away
Zac606 5 years ago
I am intrigued, how do you take the medias money, Zac? And the lab in Oxford makes no money (most of the time) it's for undergraduate research experiments. I think they sometimes let other companies use it, but then it's not them who are carrying out the experiments.
revilo314 4 years ago
Don't you think not listening to an opinion, weather you agree or not, makes you fascist as well?
And just ignoring it won't make it go away. I don't agree with anything they say. But I'd defend thier right to free speech.
Jim24680 5 years ago
Nazis act out their opinions on people all over the world using violence. - I dont care about their fucking opinions. I understand you are not a nazi but I will never accept the opinion of a fascist.
fatveganbstard 5 years ago
No,not Pro-Nazi.The point I'm making is both are sets of political Ideals which have the ability to offend."SAVIOUR ANIMALS" Has the right to complain about removing the badge if he would be happy for someone else to have a pro Nazi badge. Laws must be equal and without prejudice.
Jim24680 5 years ago
Nazism is based on non equality and predujice. We live in a "democracy" apparently this should mean that I am entitled to my rights and views as long as they do not infrige on others rights and views. - fuck the nazis - Heres to Antifa for keep the scum of our streets.
fatveganbstard 5 years ago
This is exactly my point. Once again I DO NOY AGREE WITH NAZISM. But everyone now is "MY POINT OF VIEW IS RIGHT FUCK EVERYONE ELSES" Its not right. Agree with it or not everyone has a right to thier opinion.Nazi or not
Jim24680 5 years ago
This is for "SAVEOUR ANIMALS" Would you find a pro-Nazi badge offensive?
Jim24680 5 years ago
Totally... Would you? I hope not. I respect all life.
fatveganbstard 5 years ago
fucking hate gavvers!
evilmunchkinbeauty 5 years ago
OMG the police are a joke.
hope you sent this vid to the police and got an apology from the scum involved.
stop the oxford animal lab and SMASH HLS.
ALFJAG 5 years ago 2
Omg you are totally right!! I was at a demo in dublin, ireland before against vibisection and its an outrage that so many people thisnk that animal experimentation is right!!
icicles101 4 years ago 2
True fucking words there mate.
TikiKid 4 years ago
Did you just agree with yourself?
warntv 4 years ago
I was there, and an officer stopped me and tried to take my details for having an ANTI-nazi picture on my bag. He said he found it offensive. Says it all doesn't it.
saveouranimals 5 years ago
i hate coppers-resist,exist.
vegan0 5 years ago
The phrase "couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery" comes to mind with that police "operation". Got the feeling they just wanted 2 get back 2 the station 4 a nice warm cuppa. Keep up the gr8 work folks!
adamuk01 5 years ago
Just a quick note to say that the police presence this weekend acording to an oxford councilor cost £200,000.
The 200m security budget isnt going to last long at this rate :D
fatveganbstard 5 years ago