"We have a lot more work to do in our common struggle against bigotry and discrimination. I say 'common struggle' because I believe very strongly that all forms of bigotry and discrimination are equally wrong and should be opposed by right-thinking Americans everywhere. Freedom from discrimination based on sexual orientation is surely a fundamental human right in any great democracy, as much as freedom from racial, religious, gender, or ethnic discrimination."
Your obviously in the closet and are actually fighting for what you want. Heterosexual couples that can't reproduce is a medical condition that most seek medical attention for. Infertil couple are not promoting this to be a way of life either. See in order for freaks like u to live your lifestyle you have to deny nature, medical and scientific facts. The entire sexual act is incorrect and an abomination even the bible says that. Homosexuals all need to DIE
Gays are not opening the door for other deviant people from trying to enter into marriage. Poligimist, and insestuous people will now try to get the same special rights gays are looking for. Yes special rights everyone has the right to marry anyone of the opposite sex. Marriage shouldn't change to fit you, you change to fit it. I never said anything about gays until they started trying to change society to meet their deviant behavior. GAY MARRIAGE IS WRONG AND WE WILL CONTINUE THIS FIGHT!!!!
@jblohan All americans try to make a place for themselves in american society, even minorities which are definitively deviants. What do you have against polygamists? It's ok for a guy to knock up ten different women if he only marries one, but it's illegal for him to make a commitment to them.
@jdlhnewhh Yes your right all americans have a place in society but homosexuals have nothing to do with their union being equal to a hetersexual marraige. Example I was born a male which excludes me from entering the womens bathroom, is this discrimination no. I just have to find an different but equal facility, just like gays need to find an equal but different institution for their unions. Black folks are smarter then other groups because they are not easily influenced and think on their own
@jdlhnewhh In life humanity has made MANY mistakes in discrimination and I believe because of that we feel that this is just one of those idiotic decisions we've made in our past. First of all there is no discrimination going on here we all have the same rights. I can marry someone of the opposite sex and so can they I can't marry a man and either can another man so how is that discrimination. Homosexuals need to find their own way of celebrating their union and not trying to tred on our marraig
@jdlhnewhh If homosexuallity was a correct way of living, it would be the only correct way of living that would end our species if practiced on a large scale. This is wrong to promote homosexuallity because of the fact it doesn't participate in humanity at all. This lifestyle is selfish and unproductive in everyway. If it takes a man and a woman to make a child why is it not important for them to raise that child. The best environment for a child is in a loving hetersexual relationship.
@jblohan There's no "only" correct way of living. If there was everyone would strive to live the same way. Lots of heterosexual couples can't have children, yet they get to marry and have sex. What do they contribute to humanity that homosexual couples can't. Children raised without a man and a woman present can fair well that's why it's not necessary. Condoms don't end the species because when people want children they know what to do, so do homosexuals.
Voting for prop 8 was to protect and keep marriage from becoming perverted. The union of a man and a woman called marriage is responsible for alll human existance. A woman was made for a man not another woman. It's a mental illness regardless of the political pressure to remove it from the list of mental illnesses. Homosexual behavior shouldn't be promoted because there is nothing gay marriage does to help humanity. Gay and marriage don't even belong in the same sentence.
@jblohan You do know that heterosexuals reproduce without being married, don't you. Furthermore, gay couples have heterosexual sex when they want to have kids. Lastly, mental illness is synonymous to abnormal. People who used to believe in interracial marrage were technically mentally ill.
All christians and their pagan religions are perpetrating hell on earth without knowing it,too worship jesus is to worship satan,jesus is a illegal immigrant comming across the boarder of mexico.Now if you catch them jesuses ha ha you might be able to save a few jobs in the future,but for now! they are all contracted out too the slave qaurters,call temporary services.Socalled blacks of america it's your job to bring heaven on earth,1chroni-28:4, heaven is on earth,matthew 11:12,dan 2:44.
Blacks live in a huge religious society were homosexuality is something that was never excepted in our society. Destroy any organized religion and teach them science. I think its about time the black minornity take up the task of destroying illegal immigration.
First off fuck all religious people! Gays ur nit a race your confused but I don't care and just because I don't agree doesn't make me homophobe.Just cuz animals are fags doesn't make it "natural" I think they're talking bout the fact that two men or two women can't bare offspring. just because scooby doo and lassie fucks it doesn't make natural fuck boy
You mean like the folks who want to "Keep Chocolate City Chocolate" even though we're talking about neighborhoods going back to being white after a couple of decades of being black?
Or do you mean racist like the people who say that homosexuality is something white people are going to black men to "feminize" them?
As the product of an interracial marriage, I'm fighting tooth and nail for marriage equality. There are angry black people on both sides of those argument. I'm one who happens to stand on the correct side of history.
1. Religion and fear of eternal damnation which is a powerful motivator or mind controlling technique depending on how it's used.
2. Many people are simply biased. Even if they or their ancestors had a history of fighting through adversity and discrimination. They are mainly only concerned that their own freedoms are realized.
It has nothing to do with numbers. What upsets people is that out of all races..black people know more about civil rights issues than any other race and yet 70% of them voted AGAINST human rights even though they only account for 8% of the population. It's not the numbers, It's the message they were sending that upset people..and that message is very clear and pretty scary.
@kfag101 You fucking idiot few years ago, your people were treated as scum.... you still complain about it today, how you have been treated so so badly and you deserve and demand conciliation... Then you go and hate on another minority... Fucking dumb hypocritical moron.
@roo4buffy123 Its not fucking dumb hypocritical moron, when religion was FORCED down on people who tried to go back to their homeland and also, it ended up scaring the Government...thus religion was present that ended up being used against them that brought out the civil rights movements, however, gay movement can not and SHOULD NOT combine the two simply because everthing then and now is happening on American Soil.
Overweight, unholistic, out of her mind, AND wearing a cheap azz weave...so what do u expect from a brainwashed, obese wanna-be accepted by whitefolks, sellout (in a weave). white queers and pervs no doubt just luv Miss Mammy.
@lorettab77 So how do you feel when you hear that black people are the ugliest race and they are the most genetically similar to monkeys? Shut up you primate.
fags should be put in there place... AWAY FROM ME, idk why they even do what they do im happy that they end up killing each other (but fucking kills kids)
@xxxxxxxxxx713 So does stoning women to death... BTW africans have more HIV/AIDS than the entire worlds population of gays... So try not to bring aids into it you peasant slave.
@xxxxxxxxxx713 You know why else Africa has the highest Aids/Hiv? The pope encouraged Africans NOT TO USE condoms because he said that it's unnatural. Look it up.
so what we should just ignore the FACT that gays are one of the reasons for spreading aids? i think not... plus sorry to say but this IS AMERICA not AFRICA.
why would you say that about me if you dont even know who i am? yeah i stand against gays but iv got reasons. btw what do you mean hater? sure i hate the fact that "we the people" of California dont have a voice any more. we said no to gay marriage but its still on our land.
@roo4buffy123 Because international aid is controlled by Private Corporations who are intent on Global Domination. Africans contracting the most of this disease is suspect to deeper investigation.
Also, who the hell is this individual to call other people knuckle heads just because they aren't in favor or view it the same as Gays. The whole Strong Black Woman is an EPIC Fail on her part!
I love this stupid assertion that blacks fucked it up for those who were against prop.8. Full disclosure: To me, there's nothing wrong with being gay, and gays should absolutely be allowed to get married, so there.
Now, black folks got blamed a few years ago regarding the success of prop.8. Yes, there is a huge stigma within the black community and even blacks worldwide against gays (as displayed by the bullshit going on in Uganda).
BUT... Blacks in Cali' only make-up about 8% of the total population. Subtract from that total the numbers that didn't vote at all, then break that down further and you have an even smaller number. Even if ALL 8% of the black population voted against prop.8, that wouldn't have been enough! So who's really to blame, and what's the real motive for this knee-jerk blaming of blacks???
@bigbandit You say that black only make up about 8% of the total population in California? It has nothing to do with numbers. What upsets people is that out of all races..black people know more about civil rights issues than any other race and yet 70% of them voted AGAINST human rights even though they only account for 8% of the population. It's not the numbers, It's the message they were sending that upset people..and that message is very clear and pretty scary.
Did Hispanics not vote? Last I checked their numbers are much bigger. Let's face it, tons of whites did vote for Prop8, which is scarier to me considering the that the majority of conservatives and T-baggers that are so disruptive to progress right now, are themselves (mostly) white.
Another thing... What have gays and gay-friendly people/ groups done to reach-out to black communities to engage in some sort of dialog?
I don't live in Cali' so I don't know if there's been any ongoing dialog . I tend to think there hasn't, and that might very well be the glaring message right there.
It's well known that many blacks are homophobic. So just assuming they'll all be on your side because of civil rights, though highly contradictory, is very naive. That said,homophobia sucks.
@bigbandit Both black people and white gays are big hyporcrites Black people want to be the eternal victim while opressing others White gays especially men alot of times are VERY racist When it is convienient for them they want to say that they are minorities In California they are gentrifying many minority neighborhoods without regard In the gay community they look down on black and Latino gays and only deal with them when they want sex from them Blacks have a 72% illigitimacy rate HYPOCRACY!!!
@bigbandit "What have gays and gay-friendly people/ groups done to reach-out to black communities to engage in some sort of dialog"................really? You may be lazy and need a reminder more often than not to tell you what to do and what right or wrong is. Do we really need to remind black people about civil rights and what right and wrong is>?.....Or should they just turn their cheeks(in this case, they did) and tell the other minority group,.."hey, sorry". You are such an old personl
I think I made my points very clearly, please don't turn it into something else. There are times when simple right and wrong concepts are just not enough to get a point across. Ask any parent of a teenage kid.
Homophobia runs deep in many communities, especially religiously entrenched ones. A lot more reaching-out and convincing needs to take place, as was done throughout the brutal years of civil rights.
blacks get discriminated more then gays in California... and they know its true... and for them to vote for prop 8 was just stupid... if they use being Christian the reason... well im sure most white Christians from OC will accept a gay in there family then a black... people need to wake up!!
Morality speaks about what you do, not about what you are, so theres no point in comparing blacks and gays: blacks ARE blacks, gays PRACTICE sodomy. Cant blacks hold christian values? Rev. Martin Luther King, the greatest fighter for black rights, was a christian preacher, and so where all those abolitionists that fought for the end of slave trade (against, may I say, the great slave-selling muslim kingdoms of north Africa).
Me, being a black person I personally see no comparison between blacks and gays. What gays are "going through" right now is no where near what black people went through, and I'm offended that gays try and compare it to that. You cannot change your color, however you can seek help as a homosexual. There's no excuse for the perversion of homosexuality.
@sessakag Wrong. There is no way to alter sexuality. So call "ex-gay ministries" have proven to crock of shit. There's is no excuse for the mental perversion that is religious fundamentalism. Once again, anti-gay blacks shame the whole race.
@Savior20061 "Perversion that is religious fundamentalism"? Oh please. Spare me that crap. Did you hear me say one thing about religion on this video? No you didn't. And what is so wrong with religion? Are you one of those people that whine about "The Bible could have been written by Man"? Because if you are, that argument is highly overused and ridiculous. The laws of the state are written by Man and you follow them, scientific studies are conducted by Man.
@Savior20061 Scientific facts? Lol, scientists are humans, prone to errors. And there are no 'facts' just speculation. 'Facts' change all the time when scientists make new discoveries about things they thought they knew about, so I don't really care much for 'scientific facts'. The can be just as wrong as the people you say wrote the Bible. And I don't hate gays, I just see things differently than they do. What they view as normal, I find completely sickening.
@Savior20061 And as for people keeping their religion to themselves, why can't gays do the same and keep their perversion to themselves? Why are they trying to force society to accept them? Why can't gays accept that not everyone agrees with them? Why are people called homophobic just because they have different views than homos? Are we not entitled to our opinion just like gays. Gays are not the only people with rights. You cannot see one side without seeing the other.
@Savior20061 I said homos are trying to force their lifestyle on society due to the fact that different states have voted over and over again on the issue of ''gay marriage'' and the majority do NOT want to change the way marriage is and yet time and time again, gay supporters want to try and force their way in thinking of no one but themselves and what suit them. Gays are not the only people in the world, nor are they above anyone else.
2. once again, you are talking about activism. Groups are free to bitch and moan until they get what they want.
3. And the majority of those people are like yourself, offering no actual reason other than you don't like gay people and that gay people should deal with it without a word of protest.
@Savior20061 1) It is a lifestyle. No one is forcing gays to sleep with the same sex, they choose to.
2) Why is what you and gays doing called activism but your opponents are called bigots and small minded?
3) There are plenty of good, real reasons: You would take away the right people have to practice their religious beliefs, you open the gate way to people wanting to marry their relatives, pets or even children, you are trying to overturn the votes of many to suit your own needs.
@sessakag 1. Wouldn't that make heterosexuality a choice as well? After all, no one's forcing us to sleep with members of the opposite sex.
2. Why is what the anti-gay movement doing "pro-freedom" but what gays are doing "heinous left-wing propaganda"? Opposing sides will label each other. I've gotten over it. Why can't you?
3. Slippery slope logical fallacy. None of those things are at all related to two homosexual adults giving their consent.
3) Who says marriage is between consenting adults? The gays? What right do you all have to define marriage as such? Does not a pedophile have equal rights as well? Or someone that is attracted to animals or their relatives. If gays have the right to may, EVERYONE should. Heterosexuals can't keep it restricted and neither can gays. When the next group comes along to change marriage again, be sure they will mention the same arguments
3. Equal rights to what? To marry someone not old enough to sign a contract OR consent sexually? To marry an animal that can not give consent either OR sign a marriage contract? Not to mention pedophiles both truamatize if not kill their victims. They can't use the same arguments. They. Aren't. The. Same.
@Savior20061 But who decides that children cannot give consent? You? The law? That seems to me to be age discrimination. What right do homos or heteros have to decide what marriage should be? And pedophiles don't see what they do as harmful, just like gays do not see what they do is harmful. Don't pedophiles have equal rights? And what about people that would like to marry their mother or brother, do they not have equal rights?
@sessakag 4. Why are people like me called sellouts, and deviants, confused, and fag-enablers when we agree with gay people? People are always going to call each other names. I don't know what else to tell you.
5. Yes, you are entitled to your opinion, but nobody is obligated to give the anti-gay movement a platform to speak on or take them seriously. And as far as I'm concerned, tolerating intolerance is just as bad as intolerance.
@Savior20061 And you are being as intolerant as I am. So are gays. Instead of respecting what marriage means to society, they wish to bend it and mend it to suit their own wants and needs, and despite the fact that marriage and religion are very much entwined, they could care less if the church and its followers get into trouble with the law simply for following their religion and beliefs, does that seem fair to you? If gays are all about equal rights then why are they being so selfish?
@sessakag 1. So...you admit that you are being intolerant?
2. When "society" does not have a 50% divorce rate, then I'll take its opinion of what marriage is and isn't seriously.
3. LOL, my friend you are falling for the anti-gay movement's tricks. Churches are not like businesses. Haven't they always had the right to refuse to marry anyone for any reason. So how then could they get in trouble with the law?
@Savior20061 The churches would get in trouble because gays would want to get married in the church and many would not allow that based on their beliefs and now that would be called discrimination. Churches have gotten into legal problems for that very reason.
@sessakag Doesn't matter what it would be called. It's entirely within the church's rights. All a gay couple would have to do is go to a more liberal church. That would be my advice to the gay community. After all, why get married in a place where they didn't want you?
@Savior20061 And you would be right to give them that advice, however, some gays do not take that advice. They want acceptance from anywhere and everywhere. Some gays say the church discriminates against their sexual preference, or are in some way violating their civil rights. When I used to go to church I saw it happen myself. The guy called the police, had them up there and then people got mad and all kind of shit went down.
@sessakag 1. Yes, homosexuals do want acceptance. Acceptance is vastly preferable to the legions of anti-gay drones foaming at the mouth about religion and pseudo-science and about how everyone is going to burn in hell except for them.
@Savior20061 They may want acceptance, but they cannot force acceptance, nor can they get mad because they are not accepted. No one should have to change their thought or values just to accommodate the gays. They knew what people would say when they entered their lifestyle, so they can deal with not being accepted.
At the church we had people siding with the church and others siding with the gay guy. The police seemed to be on the gay guy side and told him he could try and pursue the matter
2. People aren't being forced not to say what they want or think what they want. Your side is simply losing credibility and having things your way. For the anti-gay movement, freedom means the right to oppress others and call them names based on no reasoning whatsoever. And all those that have a problem with such nonsense are the real bad gays.
@Savior20061 1) it is a lifestyle, so id heterosexuality, you make a choice as to who you sleep with.
2) How are we losing? There are only four or five states that allow gay marriage and out of those, not all of them call it marriage, they call it a civil union, not to mention the fact that California has overturned their decision. Seems to me the gays are losing. And you have yet to address my questions about pedophile rights, and the rights of people marrying their relatives.
@sessakag 1. But that's not what sexuality is. Sexuality is desire. Not conduct. You are talking about sex the verb.
2. I said your side is losing "credibility". Youth have no problem with homosexuals. Those that don't want gays having "marriage" at the very least support civil unions with stronger rights. They grow up and teach their kids the same thing.
3. Then there are the atheists, and agnostics. Both increase every year, and guess where they fall on the gay debate?
2) You are not in the head of every youth, so you cannot say that youth has no problems with homos and you cannot say for certain that they have a problem with homos because of their parents, that's a bias statement.
3) And yes there are increasing atheists, because if you are atheist you can basically do whatever you like and not have to worry about God's punishment, who wouldn't want to be atheist?
@sessakag 1. I've already explained to you how it wasn't a choice.
2. I've seen surveys. Compared to older citizens. Younger citizens are more supportive of gay marriage.
3. I'm sorry was that an anti-atheist statement there? As an atheist, I can't do whatever I want. There's that whole matter of the police force and judicial system, but I digress.
@Savior20061 Being an atheist does not give you superiority over a religious person, because as I've said, atheists and scientist can be as wrong as anyone else. You seem to think that the fact that people are turning atheist means something when in fact it doesn't mean anything at all. The Bible has already spoken of the craziness that will go on in the final days. 2012 is right around the corner, some religious individuals as well as scientists believe that the end is near.
@sessakag 1. Uh...I'm going to to myself a favor and skip the Armageddon thing.
2. I want to show me where an atheist says verbatim that science is infallible and that mistakes are never made. The peer review portion of the scientific is centered around proving the hypothesis wrong.
3. You seem to take an issue with the credibility atheists give to the scientific community, when the scientific community tries very hard to make sure that assertions are as accurate as possible.
@Savior20061 1) Please feel free too, most people do.
2) Proof is the fact that atheist base their thinking from theories and studies of scientists and most atheist, not all, refuse to believe anything said to them unless a scientist has backed up that claim.
3) You do not know what the scientific community's try hard to do. You don't know if what they are telling you is fact or not, and I'm sorry but theories and complicated mathematical problems are not enough for me.
@Savior20061 You seem to forget that scientists are just people, human beings who experience greed, arrogance and other human emotions. Do you think a scientist is not capable of making up things in order to sway the mind of the public? Or are scientists above reproach, I'm not saying they are all bad, and some do, do good work, but its hard not to believe that their all angels that could do no wrong. And trust me, the government has a hand in their studies, you shouldn't trust them blindly.
@Savior20061 And when I say do whatever you want I meant that they can do things that would bother a Christian individual without fearing any displeasure that has not been proven or dis-proven to exist. You are not bound by the morals a religious person is bound to, personally, I think people are atheist because it makes them sleep better at night.
@sessakag That subjective statement could be applied to any member of an ideology. Everyone finds comfort from the beliefs and values that they pick.
But sure, tell me your story. I've got the whole summer.
BTW: I could argue that a religious person is not bound by MY morals. Leviticus advocated homosexuals be put to death. Deutronomy said that rape was okay so long as the father was paid afterward.
@Savior20061 Yes, that is what the Bible says, however, according to most gay activist and some atheists, the Bible was written by man, but I still don't see how they can say we shouldn't listen to the Bible because it was written by man and yet we follow laws and listen to scientific studies that were written by man. But anyway, the story.
I've recently graduated as a Medical Assistant, and before I left I did my internship at a hospital. There were six patients that I was in contact with...
@Savior20061 Three were dying, the other three were not. Two of them actually died before I left, but anyways, one of them was an atheist. Well by the end of his illness, he suddenly changed his mind about not believing in anything, he said that what made him decide to become atheist was the freedom it gave him. He didn't have to repent for any "sins" and that it actually made him sleep easier, knowing that whatever he did was not a sin because God did not exist.
@Savior20061 But as he lay dying and in pain, he found that the only peace he seemed to get was when he prayed to God to forgive his sins. He said that when you are healthy and young, it is very continent to simply say God does not exist, it helps you live an almost guilt free life, but when you are close to death, things change, you see things you could not see before, you see things happening that cannot be scientifically explained away. He told me that he regretted the way he had lived.
@sessakag Unfortunately, conversion don't prove anyone right, especially conversions such as these. These ex-atheists based their conversions on an emotional level, not a factual level, which is why the opinions of Christians don't hold much merit with me. If these men had been in Turkey, they probably would've converted to Islam at the last second. Facing death, they would have clung to any notion of an afterlife.
@Savior20061 But you do not know what ex-atheists base their conversion on, so how can you say they don't convert on a factual level. You have absolutely no proof of that, you are basing that completely on your own opinion. That's why the opinions of atheists holds no merit with me. They usually have no proof to back up their 'theories and logic.' In most things, nothing is 'factual' many facts are based upon the theories of someone.
@sessakag 1. Really, because you just gave me a few examples of ex-atheists who converted because they were afraid of dying. Sounds like emotion to me.
2. Ultimately, we can't proof beyond a shadow of a doubt that no God exists. We assume that no God exists because when we ask for proof from theists, we are always given emotional pleas or circular logic.
@Savior20061 1. You do not know if those ex-atheists were afraid to die or not, you are basing that on a theory of yours, not real 'factual' information. You are assuming that's why they did it when in reality, you have no way of knowing that.
2. You assume God does not exist because of emotional pleas or circular logic? So you admit that atheists don't base their 'assumptions' on proof he doesn't exist but on the fact that there is no proof he does exist?
"Well by the end of his illness, he suddenly changed his mind about not believing in anything, he said that what made him decide to become atheist was the freedom it gave him. He didn't have to repent for any "sins" and that it actually made him sleep easier, knowing that whatever he did was not a sin because God did not exist.
sessakag 2 weeks ago "
Sounds like he changed his mind because he was "afraid".
@Savior20061 But once again, you do not KNOW if he was afraid or not. You were not there, you don't know what he was thinking or what changed his mind. Once again, you rely on assumptions and everyone knows what happens when you assume stuff. And to me, he didn't seem afraid at all, but he seemed at peace, but again, I have no way of knowing what he was feeling.
@sessakag 2. You got it, champ. That's how science works. You proof something IS true. Until you do you assume it isn't. Not the other way around. Here's a quote I've found on the internet that sums it up nicely.
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."
There's no proof that unicorns DON'T exist. Do you believe in them? What if I wrote a Unicorn Bible, would you believe? Didn't think so.
@Savior20061 No, you don't assume something is not true. You work to PROVE something is not true. When someone is arrested, do we ASSUME they're guilty because there is not evidence at the moment, or do you work to prove they are innocent. I may not be a scientist or a atheist but from the conversations I've had with both, neither sit there and make assumptions, they try and prove or disprove something. Again, you have no proof that unicorns don't exist, just because no one has found one.
@Savior20061 That's why atheist make no sense. You want proof of things, and facts and yet you all base your beliefs on assumptions, what kind of sense does that make? "What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."? Oh please, that statement is not worth two cents. You don't know what has evidence or not, so you cannot dismiss ANYTHING without sufficient evidence that what is asserted actually can be dismissed. You must PROVE that what is asserted can be dismissed.
@Savior20061 Where in the hell would we be if people actually believed that statement? "What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." Do you know how far back we as a society would be if anyone believed that crap? Some things takes years, decades to prove. You don't just toss something out for lack of evidence, you SEARCH for that evidence.
@Savior20061 1.The same can be said for atheists, which is why I have no reason to believe their claims. The proof will be in death.
2. What is the difference between a hypothesis or 'any old claim'? None. Both are claims whether you see them as an 'educated guess' or not. There is really no such thing as an 'educated guess'. A guess is a guess no matter what word you stick in the front of it. ANY claim can be proven or disproven wheter it is 'educated' or not.
@Savior20061 That seems to me to be flawed logic. According to most atheists, they base their beliefs on 'facts' and 'logic' and yet you admit that your beliefs are based upon assumptions. You ask for proof from the wrong persons. Theists are not Gods, they have no direct contact to God, nor do they claim to. So how do you expect to get proof from them? That makes no sense at all. The only solid proof you will get is when you die and by then, it will be too late to change you mind about things.
@sessakag 1. How doesn't it make sense? Many theists like you claim for a fact that God exists. When you promote a statement as fact, it's only logical that a skeptic should ask for supporting evidence. Just because you have none, doesn't make the skeptic's demand unreasonable.
2. Except you don't really KNOW it will be too late, because you haven't proven the existence of a creator, let alone one that fits the Christian portrayal.
@Savior20061 1. It makes no sense because atheists claim they base their belief on facts but there is no proof that God does not exist. How can you base your beliefs on something that has not been proven? If you really look at it, Christians and atheists are not so different. We don't have proof of God and you all don't have proof that he doesn't exist. Only death will prove one or the other side right.
2. So are you saying that you can come back to life and redo your life of you're wrong?
@sessakag 1. Sess, I've just explained it with the comments below. I gave myself a migraine last week repeating myself to a guy who liked DADT and I'm not going down that road again. But I will add that atheism isn't a belief. It's doubt. Lack of belief.
@Savior20061 1. You didn't explain anything. Atheist believe that God does not exist, either way it goes, that is a belief, call it what you will.
2. You said that I don't know it won't be too late, and I'm asking how it won't be too late? I know I've said over and over that death will be the proof you need, therefore it will be too late to change your mind. Whether you chose to believe or not is between you and God. Hope its worth it. :)
@sessakag No, it's not a belief. When I say, "I DON'T believe that there is a God, how can you say that's a belief? Is not believing the same as believing? When did this happen? All you did was take the negative (no) and put it somewhere else in the sentence.
@Savior20061 Like I said, you can phrase it any way you like, but it is a belief. Atheists believe God is the creation of man's imagination. There is no proof of that which is what makes it a belief. It is not a fact, it is a belief.
@sessakag Okay, I can tell that I WILL have to repeat myself after all. I didn't say it was an absolute fact. I said it was DOUBT. Atheism is lack of faith.
DOUBT from the freedictionary.
1. To be undecided or skeptical about:
2. To tend to disbelieve; distrust:
3. To regard as unlikely:
4. Archaic To suspect; fear.
So YOU can phrase it however you want, you are still incorrect.
@Savior20061 He told me not to live to the dictates of the world, whether those dictations come from a pastor, a scientist, the law or a Bible. That if you know God and do what it is he would want you to do, you will live a happier life. I'm not an atheist, however, I do believe in God. I don't go to church or read the Bible much, and I don't do everything a pastor tells me to do, I do not read too much into scientific theories either, I get my morals and beliefs from my own mind.
@Savior20061 I'm not saying they all convert, I'm saying from what I've witnessed, atheists tend to re-evaluate their thinking when death is knocking at their door, never seen anyone die proclaiming to be atheist. It seems to me being atheist is depressing. When you die all you look forward to is rotting in the ground if you're right and burning in hell if you're wrong.
@sessakag Long time before I saw this post. I could imagine being a Christian can be just as depressing. You constantly have the fear of Hell, eternal punishment, and divine wrath from an angry and jealous God dictating your every movement. And when you die, you either burn in hell according to doctrine or spend eternity with a wrathful, jealous God. Both sound like torment to me.
@Savior20061 Actually, you don't have to live in fear if you do what is right, but now days, doing what is right is not something people like to do, so of course most people will live in fear, which is why it is easier to become atheist. You won't be on such a straight and narrow path, you don't have to do whats right because God doesn't exist, blah, blah, blah. As for a wrathful, jealous God, if you are doing the right thing, you won't HAVE to worry about his wrath.
@Savior20061 You do not have to be worried about his wrath to bring it down upon you. You being worried about it is not really necessary to feel it. :P
@Savior20061 Did you expect God to be some sort of push over? Did you expect him to be as weak as a human being? You seem to forget that God is not a human, you are not on his level, and you cannot hold him to human standards. It seems like people are trying to define what God is based upon human thinking, and forget that you are not dealing with a human, you are dealing with a God. He dictates to you, not the other way around.
@sessakag Except your "God" is chockful of human traits. Jealousy, wrath, even hyprocrisy, and inconsistency in the Old Testament. If he's "perfect", he should have no negative human traits, because humans aren't perfect.
For some reason, Christians have a thing for "special pleading". Being jealous and wrathful is okay as long as you have power and can do whatever you want.
@Savior20061 But how can you call those human traits. God was here long before man, so is it not safe to say that humans have God traits? And again, you are applying human logic to a God. Most atheists believe the Bible was written by man, therefore, it is also safe to assume that descriptions of God in the Old Testament are wrong. And perfection can be defined in many ways, it depends upon the person.
@sessakag 1. Assuming of course, that God WAS here before man, and not a product of their imagination. But either assumption would explain why God and Humans have similiar personality traits. People may have different ideas on what's perfect, but the core concept has always been the same. Perfection means "without flaw".
@Savior20061 Yes but what is a flaw? What someone deem as a flaw, someone else my not, therefore the meaning of perfection has more than one definition. And I am curious to hear how you believe man was created.
@Savior20061 The ape theory, lol. Again, there is no proof of that. We did not SEE such an evolution occur. Our DNA may be similar to apes, however, that proves nothing, just that we have things in common with apes, that's it. Unless you were there, and saw such a thing occur, you have no way of knowing if such a thing occur. The ape thing is a scientific theory, a possible explanation of mans existence. Its a very good tale though, a bit far fetched to me though.
@sessakag Similar DNA doesn't prove anything? That's honest to God (pardon the pun) news to me. But I'm not here to talk about evolution. There are many people who could explain it better. Take your case to AronRa or Thunderf00t.
@sessakag Isn't it obvious? If YOU are wrong too. =D
Have you ever heard of Pascal's Wager? Pascal argued that even if God couldn't be proven, that people should become Christians anyway, so they'd have nothing to lose if they were wrong and God didn't exist. But Pascal made the same mistake you and so many other Christian proponents have made when it comes to probability. You guys narrowed it down too soon (continues...)
The problem of course, is the possibility of a C answer. In reality, any number of deities could theoretically exist. Maybe the Muslims turn out to be right. Maybe the Jews. Maybe the Romans. Maybe the Egyptians. Maybe the Sumerians. There is even the possibility that none of THESE are right, and the creator(s) is something that us humans never considered before.
@Savior20061 Nope never heard of that. But the mistake YOU are making is assuming that I am Christian. I've never claimed to be a Christian. I'm not telling anyone to become a Chrisitan or otherwise, I am simply pointing out that atheists don't really have anything to back up their beliefs, and I'm also pointing out that disbelief will possibly get you eternity in Hell. That's all really. :)
@Savior20061 Because, though I don't claim to be Christian, I DO believe in God. However, I am well aware of the possibility of the Bible being false, and some pastors are no more Christian than a demon. Therefore, I do not put my trust in MAN. I don't believe for a second that whole, 'we used to be apes and magically became humans' theory, therefore, I am no where near being atheists. That theory was developed by MAN, so it's not worth two cents.
@Savior20061 I don't consider myself as one, no. Christian to me is someone that goes to church, believes everything in the Bible, etc. I used to go to church but after what I've seen there, anyone can claim to be a Christian, doesn't make it true, and like I said, there is the possibility that the Bible has been tampered with. You don't have to be a Christian to believe in God. I believe in God, and its that simple. I'm not Christian, nor atheist, I am me. No labels needed.
@Savior20061 But I do believe in God and I do believe there is a Hell, but I believe that based upon my own life experience, what I've seen for myself, not based on the words of a preacher, or a Bible that could be true but has been greatly tampered with by man, or based upon what some scientist believes or 'theories'. I believe what I believe based upon my own mind and life experiences. I don't believe everything someone else tells me. I prefer not to be bound by the ways of the world.
@Savior20061 And once again, you are applying human notions to a God. Based upon your opinion, you think humans are not perfect, and you think God is not perfect, but you have no right to deem what is perfect and what is not. God may have an entirely different notion of perfection that you, as a human, are not aware of. You are applying human notions to a God, once again.
@sessakag 1. Of course I do! I can deem what is perfect, what is ugly, what is pretty, what is hot, and what is cold. I have every right to express that opinion. People can agree or agree/disagree.
@Savior20061 Yes, you can express an opinion, doesn't mean but it really doesn't make it worth anything, lol. People can agree or disagree with whatever they want, doesn't make it worth two cents. Like I said, the proof will be in death, and by then, it'll be way too late if it turns out you're wrong.
@Savior20061 And as far as being an atheist, I'd like to share a story with you about that if you'd like to hear it, maybe it will explain why I don't really believe in the whole atheist thing.
@Savior20061 And how are surveys in anyway an accurate portrayal of how young people feel? Unless they asked every young person in America how they felt about it, that survey is only valid for that small group of young people asked and can in no way be taken as fact.
@sessakag Wait just a minute...how did you come to the conclusion that the majority of Americans don't like gay marriage?! Didn't you get that information from a survey? Because, if you did, I can just write it off as crock using your same logic.
@Savior20061 I didn't say anything about the majority of America not liking gay marriage, I said that you cannot base a survey on the overall though of the youth. However in some states, the majority of people do not seem to approve of it based upon the fact that there are only a few states that allow gay marriage, and even some of those states STILL refuse to call it marriage, its called Civil Union. So if you can't conclude from that what America thinks of gay marriage, something is wrong.
@Savior20061 I think that atheists want to live that mostly guilt free life, but in the end, God gets to them. He always seems to. On the verge of death atheists don't cry out to scientists but to God for help. Which is why the words of atheists holds little value to me.
@Savior20061 And before you make another bias comment, not all atheist agree with gay activist. But I think that atheists are not really atheist because they believe in science rather than God. They are as unbending about scientific studies as religious people are about their Bible. So bringing up atheist doesn't really do much for me, atheists can be as wrong as anyone else. I tell you what though, if they want to take their chances with a God that MAY or may not exists, then thats on them.
@Savior20061 And like I said, atheist believe in scientists and man, those are their deity because they seem to hold their studies and the things they say as holy and sacred. If a scientist says something then thats it, they go along with it, just like religious people go along with what is written in the Bible. And my convictions are not based on religion, I am merely speaking from a religious point of view since gay activists seem to think Christians are the ones causing the problem.
@Savior20061 That slippery slope everyone is talking about is the main issue of allowing gays to marry, and yet every gay person or gay activist doesn't seem to want to address the issue or out right avoid the subject. I wonder why that is.
@sessakag Exactly. Your "main issue" is a logical fallacy. There is NO reason to suspect that anyone's minds will change about pedophilia, bestality, or incest because the same arguments can't be used because they are NOT THE SAME THING. The pro-gay community doesn't avoid the subject. The subject makes no sense.
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"We have a lot more work to do in our common struggle against bigotry and discrimination. I say 'common struggle' because I believe very strongly that all forms of bigotry and discrimination are equally wrong and should be opposed by right-thinking Americans everywhere. Freedom from discrimination based on sexual orientation is surely a fundamental human right in any great democracy, as much as freedom from racial, religious, gender, or ethnic discrimination."
Coretta Scott King
RCSVirginia 2 months ago
Thank you!!!!!
JMWilkes 2 months ago in playlist Gay Talk
Your obviously in the closet and are actually fighting for what you want. Heterosexual couples that can't reproduce is a medical condition that most seek medical attention for. Infertil couple are not promoting this to be a way of life either. See in order for freaks like u to live your lifestyle you have to deny nature, medical and scientific facts. The entire sexual act is incorrect and an abomination even the bible says that. Homosexuals all need to DIE
jblohan 6 months ago
Gays are not opening the door for other deviant people from trying to enter into marriage. Poligimist, and insestuous people will now try to get the same special rights gays are looking for. Yes special rights everyone has the right to marry anyone of the opposite sex. Marriage shouldn't change to fit you, you change to fit it. I never said anything about gays until they started trying to change society to meet their deviant behavior. GAY MARRIAGE IS WRONG AND WE WILL CONTINUE THIS FIGHT!!!!
jblohan 7 months ago
@jblohan All americans try to make a place for themselves in american society, even minorities which are definitively deviants. What do you have against polygamists? It's ok for a guy to knock up ten different women if he only marries one, but it's illegal for him to make a commitment to them.
jdlhnewhh 6 months ago
@jdlhnewhh Yes your right all americans have a place in society but homosexuals have nothing to do with their union being equal to a hetersexual marraige. Example I was born a male which excludes me from entering the womens bathroom, is this discrimination no. I just have to find an different but equal facility, just like gays need to find an equal but different institution for their unions. Black folks are smarter then other groups because they are not easily influenced and think on their own
jblohan 6 months ago
@jdlhnewhh In life humanity has made MANY mistakes in discrimination and I believe because of that we feel that this is just one of those idiotic decisions we've made in our past. First of all there is no discrimination going on here we all have the same rights. I can marry someone of the opposite sex and so can they I can't marry a man and either can another man so how is that discrimination. Homosexuals need to find their own way of celebrating their union and not trying to tred on our marraig
jblohan 6 months ago
@jdlhnewhh If homosexuallity was a correct way of living, it would be the only correct way of living that would end our species if practiced on a large scale. This is wrong to promote homosexuallity because of the fact it doesn't participate in humanity at all. This lifestyle is selfish and unproductive in everyway. If it takes a man and a woman to make a child why is it not important for them to raise that child. The best environment for a child is in a loving hetersexual relationship.
jblohan 6 months ago
@jblohan There's no "only" correct way of living. If there was everyone would strive to live the same way. Lots of heterosexual couples can't have children, yet they get to marry and have sex. What do they contribute to humanity that homosexual couples can't. Children raised without a man and a woman present can fair well that's why it's not necessary. Condoms don't end the species because when people want children they know what to do, so do homosexuals.
jdlhnewhh 6 months ago
Voting for prop 8 was to protect and keep marriage from becoming perverted. The union of a man and a woman called marriage is responsible for alll human existance. A woman was made for a man not another woman. It's a mental illness regardless of the political pressure to remove it from the list of mental illnesses. Homosexual behavior shouldn't be promoted because there is nothing gay marriage does to help humanity. Gay and marriage don't even belong in the same sentence.
jblohan 7 months ago
@jblohan You do know that heterosexuals reproduce without being married, don't you. Furthermore, gay couples have heterosexual sex when they want to have kids. Lastly, mental illness is synonymous to abnormal. People who used to believe in interracial marrage were technically mentally ill.
jdlhnewhh 6 months ago
i dont think gay marriage should be a state issue cus really, theres no need for it......
bitch it should be a federal issue
BROADCASTRECAPTV 9 months ago
Shame on those who have this hypocritical view, denying civil rights to gays.
oriolesfan61 9 months ago
All christians and their pagan religions are perpetrating hell on earth without knowing it,too worship jesus is to worship satan,jesus is a illegal immigrant comming across the boarder of mexico.Now if you catch them jesuses ha ha you might be able to save a few jobs in the future,but for now! they are all contracted out too the slave qaurters,call temporary services.Socalled blacks of america it's your job to bring heaven on earth,1chroni-28:4, heaven is on earth,matthew 11:12,dan 2:44.
ArielandKay 9 months ago
Blacks live in a huge religious society were homosexuality is something that was never excepted in our society. Destroy any organized religion and teach them science. I think its about time the black minornity take up the task of destroying illegal immigration.
TheCaliCapitalist 10 months ago
Id tap that big black bitch, I don't give a fuck like that :p
argo984 10 months ago
First off fuck all religious people! Gays ur nit a race your confused but I don't care and just because I don't agree doesn't make me homophobe.Just cuz animals are fags doesn't make it "natural" I think they're talking bout the fact that two men or two women can't bare offspring. just because scooby doo and lassie fucks it doesn't make natural fuck boy
martystreets 1 year ago
Blacks are such hypocrites: #1 at bastard births, STDs and 1/2 of them are on the down low anyways. So why should they care about marriage?
Q: What do you call black marital fidelity?
A: When they wait till after the honeymoon b4 sleeping around.
MountMarcyNY 1 year ago
@MountMarcyNY wow, wow wow, someone is a racist
nevergetsbetter4me 1 year ago
@nevergetsbetter4me
You mean like the folks who want to "Keep Chocolate City Chocolate" even though we're talking about neighborhoods going back to being white after a couple of decades of being black?
Or do you mean racist like the people who say that homosexuality is something white people are going to black men to "feminize" them?
Idiot.
Americcan 11 months ago
As the product of an interracial marriage, I'm fighting tooth and nail for marriage equality. There are angry black people on both sides of those argument. I'm one who happens to stand on the correct side of history.
GinnyStoleMyMan 1 year ago
1. Religion and fear of eternal damnation which is a powerful motivator or mind controlling technique depending on how it's used.
2. Many people are simply biased. Even if they or their ancestors had a history of fighting through adversity and discrimination. They are mainly only concerned that their own freedoms are realized.
tokinblckgie 1 year ago 2
@tokinblckgie Religion is has its positive side..to control stupid people.
tkathryyn 1 year ago
@tkathryyn
lol, that is true.
tokinblckgie 1 year ago
stop equating my skin with your sin!
kfag101 1 year ago
@kfag101 stop equating ur bullshit religion to my way of living
kurunziz 1 year ago
Wow,u guys rock!!!
valeria333able 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
It has nothing to do with numbers. What upsets people is that out of all races..black people know more about civil rights issues than any other race and yet 70% of them voted AGAINST human rights even though they only account for 8% of the population. It's not the numbers, It's the message they were sending that upset people..and that message is very clear and pretty scary.
tkathryyn 1 year ago
Whatever, any fucking scientist will tell you being gay is genetic! GET THE FUCK EDUCATED!!!!!!!!!!
Mr123Gibson 1 year ago
don't compare my skin with your sin!
kfag101 1 year ago
@kfag101 You fucking idiot few years ago, your people were treated as scum.... you still complain about it today, how you have been treated so so badly and you deserve and demand conciliation... Then you go and hate on another minority... Fucking dumb hypocritical moron.
roo4buffy123 1 year ago
@roo4buffy123 Its not fucking dumb hypocritical moron, when religion was FORCED down on people who tried to go back to their homeland and also, it ended up scaring the Government...thus religion was present that ended up being used against them that brought out the civil rights movements, however, gay movement can not and SHOULD NOT combine the two simply because everthing then and now is happening on American Soil.
Sileni 1 year ago
Overweight, unholistic, out of her mind, AND wearing a cheap azz weave...so what do u expect from a brainwashed, obese wanna-be accepted by whitefolks, sellout (in a weave). white queers and pervs no doubt just luv Miss Mammy.
lorettab77 1 year ago
She should have brought some pancakes with her during her lil sermon...for all her lil white frenz.
lorettab77 1 year ago
@lorettab77 So how do you feel when you hear that black people are the ugliest race and they are the most genetically similar to monkeys? Shut up you primate.
roo4buffy123 1 year ago
fags should be put in there place... AWAY FROM ME, idk why they even do what they do im happy that they end up killing each other (but fucking kills kids)
xxxxxxxxxx713 1 year ago
@xxxxxxxxxx713 lol are you for real?
fairandseqaer 1 year ago
@fairandseqaer
yeah happens all the time in San Fransisco
xxxxxxxxxx713 1 year ago
@xxxxxxxxxx713 why? for what?
fairandseqaer 1 year ago
@fairandseqaer
im not sure i just know it happens
xxxxxxxxxx713 1 year ago
@xxxxxxxxxx713 and it happends now !! in this duration 2009 -2010 !!! wow so weird
fairandseqaer 1 year ago
@xxxxxxxxxx713 So does stoning women to death... BTW africans have more HIV/AIDS than the entire worlds population of gays... So try not to bring aids into it you peasant slave.
roo4buffy123 1 year ago
@roo4buffy123
the who Aids/Hiv thing may be true but you cant just ignore the fact that gay people STILL spread it (dumb bitch)
xxxxxxxxxx713 1 year ago
@xxxxxxxxxx713 You know why else Africa has the highest Aids/Hiv? The pope encouraged Africans NOT TO USE condoms because he said that it's unnatural. Look it up.
tkathryyn 1 year ago
@tkathryyn
so what we should just ignore the FACT that gays are one of the reasons for spreading aids? i think not... plus sorry to say but this IS AMERICA not AFRICA.
xxxxxxxxxx713 1 year ago
@xxxxxxxxxx713 U prik ur nothing but a hater!!!Shame on u!!!
valeria333able 1 year ago
@valeria333able
why would you say that about me if you dont even know who i am? yeah i stand against gays but iv got reasons. btw what do you mean hater? sure i hate the fact that "we the people" of California dont have a voice any more. we said no to gay marriage but its still on our land.
xxxxxxxxxx713 1 year ago
@roo4buffy123 Because international aid is controlled by Private Corporations who are intent on Global Domination. Africans contracting the most of this disease is suspect to deeper investigation.
Also, who the hell is this individual to call other people knuckle heads just because they aren't in favor or view it the same as Gays. The whole Strong Black Woman is an EPIC Fail on her part!
Sileni 1 year ago
@roo4buffy123
and women getting stoned to death has nothing to do with homosexuality
xxxxxxxxxx713 1 year ago
Part.1
I love this stupid assertion that blacks fucked it up for those who were against prop.8. Full disclosure: To me, there's nothing wrong with being gay, and gays should absolutely be allowed to get married, so there.
Now, black folks got blamed a few years ago regarding the success of prop.8. Yes, there is a huge stigma within the black community and even blacks worldwide against gays (as displayed by the bullshit going on in Uganda).
bigbandit 1 year ago
Part.2
BUT... Blacks in Cali' only make-up about 8% of the total population. Subtract from that total the numbers that didn't vote at all, then break that down further and you have an even smaller number. Even if ALL 8% of the black population voted against prop.8, that wouldn't have been enough! So who's really to blame, and what's the real motive for this knee-jerk blaming of blacks???
bigbandit 1 year ago
@bigbandit You say that black only make up about 8% of the total population in California? It has nothing to do with numbers. What upsets people is that out of all races..black people know more about civil rights issues than any other race and yet 70% of them voted AGAINST human rights even though they only account for 8% of the population. It's not the numbers, It's the message they were sending that upset people..and that message is very clear and pretty scary.
tkathryyn 1 year ago
@tkathryyn
Bullshit tkathryyn...
Did Hispanics not vote? Last I checked their numbers are much bigger. Let's face it, tons of whites did vote for Prop8, which is scarier to me considering the that the majority of conservatives and T-baggers that are so disruptive to progress right now, are themselves (mostly) white.
bigbandit 1 year ago
Comment removed
bigbandit 1 year ago
Another thing... What have gays and gay-friendly people/ groups done to reach-out to black communities to engage in some sort of dialog?
I don't live in Cali' so I don't know if there's been any ongoing dialog . I tend to think there hasn't, and that might very well be the glaring message right there.
It's well known that many blacks are homophobic. So just assuming they'll all be on your side because of civil rights, though highly contradictory, is very naive. That said,homophobia sucks.
bigbandit 1 year ago
@bigbandit Both black people and white gays are big hyporcrites Black people want to be the eternal victim while opressing others White gays especially men alot of times are VERY racist When it is convienient for them they want to say that they are minorities In California they are gentrifying many minority neighborhoods without regard In the gay community they look down on black and Latino gays and only deal with them when they want sex from them Blacks have a 72% illigitimacy rate HYPOCRACY!!!
QBRikan77 1 year ago
@QBRikan77 now this is one of the dumbest things i have ever heard
scorand 10 months ago
@bigbandit "What have gays and gay-friendly people/ groups done to reach-out to black communities to engage in some sort of dialog"................really? You may be lazy and need a reminder more often than not to tell you what to do and what right or wrong is. Do we really need to remind black people about civil rights and what right and wrong is>?.....Or should they just turn their cheeks(in this case, they did) and tell the other minority group,.."hey, sorry". You are such an old personl
tkathryyn 1 year ago
@tkathryyn
Y'know what, get a life!
I think I made my points very clearly, please don't turn it into something else. There are times when simple right and wrong concepts are just not enough to get a point across. Ask any parent of a teenage kid.
Homophobia runs deep in many communities, especially religiously entrenched ones. A lot more reaching-out and convincing needs to take place, as was done throughout the brutal years of civil rights.
So, yeah...'really'!
bigbandit 1 year ago
@tkathryyn They came out to vote for the first black president while voting to opress gays. Messed up.
QBRikan77 1 year ago
blacks get discriminated more then gays in California... and they know its true... and for them to vote for prop 8 was just stupid... if they use being Christian the reason... well im sure most white Christians from OC will accept a gay in there family then a black... people need to wake up!!
punch2o 1 year ago
Morality speaks about what you do, not about what you are, so theres no point in comparing blacks and gays: blacks ARE blacks, gays PRACTICE sodomy. Cant blacks hold christian values? Rev. Martin Luther King, the greatest fighter for black rights, was a christian preacher, and so where all those abolitionists that fought for the end of slave trade (against, may I say, the great slave-selling muslim kingdoms of north Africa).
AndreKugland 1 year ago
Me, being a black person I personally see no comparison between blacks and gays. What gays are "going through" right now is no where near what black people went through, and I'm offended that gays try and compare it to that. You cannot change your color, however you can seek help as a homosexual. There's no excuse for the perversion of homosexuality.
sessakag 2 years ago
@sessakag : seek help my ASS......
amsweetheart89 1 year ago
@sessakag Wrong. There is no way to alter sexuality. So call "ex-gay ministries" have proven to crock of shit. There's is no excuse for the mental perversion that is religious fundamentalism. Once again, anti-gay blacks shame the whole race.
Savior20061 1 year ago
@Savior20061 "Perversion that is religious fundamentalism"? Oh please. Spare me that crap. Did you hear me say one thing about religion on this video? No you didn't. And what is so wrong with religion? Are you one of those people that whine about "The Bible could have been written by Man"? Because if you are, that argument is highly overused and ridiculous. The laws of the state are written by Man and you follow them, scientific studies are conducted by Man.
sessakag 1 year ago
@sessakag "And what is so wrong with religion?"
Nothing, as long as people keep them to themselves.
Uh...the Bible WAS written AND even editted by men. It even has their names in the passages.
Savior20061 1 year ago
@Savior20061 Scientific facts? Lol, scientists are humans, prone to errors. And there are no 'facts' just speculation. 'Facts' change all the time when scientists make new discoveries about things they thought they knew about, so I don't really care much for 'scientific facts'. The can be just as wrong as the people you say wrote the Bible. And I don't hate gays, I just see things differently than they do. What they view as normal, I find completely sickening.
sessakag 1 year ago
@Savior20061 And as for people keeping their religion to themselves, why can't gays do the same and keep their perversion to themselves? Why are they trying to force society to accept them? Why can't gays accept that not everyone agrees with them? Why are people called homophobic just because they have different views than homos? Are we not entitled to our opinion just like gays. Gays are not the only people with rights. You cannot see one side without seeing the other.
sessakag 1 year ago
@sessakag 1. They ARE. I have not met one single gay person, trying to spread the "gay plague" and make everyone else exactly like them.
2. "Force"? Have their been pink tanks rolling around? It's called activism. It's legal for you; it's legal for us.
3. What's there to agree or disagree with?
Savior20061 1 year ago
@Savior20061 I said homos are trying to force their lifestyle on society due to the fact that different states have voted over and over again on the issue of ''gay marriage'' and the majority do NOT want to change the way marriage is and yet time and time again, gay supporters want to try and force their way in thinking of no one but themselves and what suit them. Gays are not the only people in the world, nor are they above anyone else.
sessakag 1 year ago
@sessakag 1. It's not a lifestyle.
2. once again, you are talking about activism. Groups are free to bitch and moan until they get what they want.
3. And the majority of those people are like yourself, offering no actual reason other than you don't like gay people and that gay people should deal with it without a word of protest.
Savior20061 1 year ago
@Savior20061 1) It is a lifestyle. No one is forcing gays to sleep with the same sex, they choose to.
2) Why is what you and gays doing called activism but your opponents are called bigots and small minded?
3) There are plenty of good, real reasons: You would take away the right people have to practice their religious beliefs, you open the gate way to people wanting to marry their relatives, pets or even children, you are trying to overturn the votes of many to suit your own needs.
sessakag 1 year ago
@sessakag 1. Wouldn't that make heterosexuality a choice as well? After all, no one's forcing us to sleep with members of the opposite sex.
2. Why is what the anti-gay movement doing "pro-freedom" but what gays are doing "heinous left-wing propaganda"? Opposing sides will label each other. I've gotten over it. Why can't you?
3. Slippery slope logical fallacy. None of those things are at all related to two homosexual adults giving their consent.
Savior20061 1 year ago
@Savior20061 1) Exactly.
2) Fine, we can be done with the labels
3) Who says marriage is between consenting adults? The gays? What right do you all have to define marriage as such? Does not a pedophile have equal rights as well? Or someone that is attracted to animals or their relatives. If gays have the right to may, EVERYONE should. Heterosexuals can't keep it restricted and neither can gays. When the next group comes along to change marriage again, be sure they will mention the same arguments
sessakag 1 year ago
@sessakag 1. Sigh.
2. Skipped.
3. Equal rights to what? To marry someone not old enough to sign a contract OR consent sexually? To marry an animal that can not give consent either OR sign a marriage contract? Not to mention pedophiles both truamatize if not kill their victims. They can't use the same arguments. They. Aren't. The. Same.
Savior20061 1 year ago
@Savior20061 But who decides that children cannot give consent? You? The law? That seems to me to be age discrimination. What right do homos or heteros have to decide what marriage should be? And pedophiles don't see what they do as harmful, just like gays do not see what they do is harmful. Don't pedophiles have equal rights? And what about people that would like to marry their mother or brother, do they not have equal rights?
sessakag 1 year ago
@sessakag 4. Why are people like me called sellouts, and deviants, confused, and fag-enablers when we agree with gay people? People are always going to call each other names. I don't know what else to tell you.
5. Yes, you are entitled to your opinion, but nobody is obligated to give the anti-gay movement a platform to speak on or take them seriously. And as far as I'm concerned, tolerating intolerance is just as bad as intolerance.
Savior20061 1 year ago
@Savior20061 And you are being as intolerant as I am. So are gays. Instead of respecting what marriage means to society, they wish to bend it and mend it to suit their own wants and needs, and despite the fact that marriage and religion are very much entwined, they could care less if the church and its followers get into trouble with the law simply for following their religion and beliefs, does that seem fair to you? If gays are all about equal rights then why are they being so selfish?
sessakag 1 year ago
@sessakag 1. So...you admit that you are being intolerant?
2. When "society" does not have a 50% divorce rate, then I'll take its opinion of what marriage is and isn't seriously.
3. LOL, my friend you are falling for the anti-gay movement's tricks. Churches are not like businesses. Haven't they always had the right to refuse to marry anyone for any reason. So how then could they get in trouble with the law?
Savior20061 1 year ago
@Savior20061 The churches would get in trouble because gays would want to get married in the church and many would not allow that based on their beliefs and now that would be called discrimination. Churches have gotten into legal problems for that very reason.
sessakag 1 year ago
@sessakag Doesn't matter what it would be called. It's entirely within the church's rights. All a gay couple would have to do is go to a more liberal church. That would be my advice to the gay community. After all, why get married in a place where they didn't want you?
Savior20061 1 year ago
@Savior20061 And you would be right to give them that advice, however, some gays do not take that advice. They want acceptance from anywhere and everywhere. Some gays say the church discriminates against their sexual preference, or are in some way violating their civil rights. When I used to go to church I saw it happen myself. The guy called the police, had them up there and then people got mad and all kind of shit went down.
sessakag 1 year ago
@sessakag 1. Yes, homosexuals do want acceptance. Acceptance is vastly preferable to the legions of anti-gay drones foaming at the mouth about religion and pseudo-science and about how everyone is going to burn in hell except for them.
2. What happened in your church?
Savior20061 1 year ago
@Savior20061 They may want acceptance, but they cannot force acceptance, nor can they get mad because they are not accepted. No one should have to change their thought or values just to accommodate the gays. They knew what people would say when they entered their lifestyle, so they can deal with not being accepted.
At the church we had people siding with the church and others siding with the gay guy. The police seemed to be on the gay guy side and told him he could try and pursue the matter
sessakag 1 year ago
@sessakag 1. It's not a lifestyle.
2. People aren't being forced not to say what they want or think what they want. Your side is simply losing credibility and having things your way. For the anti-gay movement, freedom means the right to oppress others and call them names based on no reasoning whatsoever. And all those that have a problem with such nonsense are the real bad gays.
Savior20061 1 year ago
@Savior20061 1) it is a lifestyle, so id heterosexuality, you make a choice as to who you sleep with.
2) How are we losing? There are only four or five states that allow gay marriage and out of those, not all of them call it marriage, they call it a civil union, not to mention the fact that California has overturned their decision. Seems to me the gays are losing. And you have yet to address my questions about pedophile rights, and the rights of people marrying their relatives.
sessakag 1 year ago
@sessakag 1. But that's not what sexuality is. Sexuality is desire. Not conduct. You are talking about sex the verb.
2. I said your side is losing "credibility". Youth have no problem with homosexuals. Those that don't want gays having "marriage" at the very least support civil unions with stronger rights. They grow up and teach their kids the same thing.
3. Then there are the atheists, and agnostics. Both increase every year, and guess where they fall on the gay debate?
Savior20061 1 year ago
@Savior20061 1) It is a choice.
2) You are not in the head of every youth, so you cannot say that youth has no problems with homos and you cannot say for certain that they have a problem with homos because of their parents, that's a bias statement.
3) And yes there are increasing atheists, because if you are atheist you can basically do whatever you like and not have to worry about God's punishment, who wouldn't want to be atheist?
sessakag 1 year ago
@sessakag 1. I've already explained to you how it wasn't a choice.
2. I've seen surveys. Compared to older citizens. Younger citizens are more supportive of gay marriage.
3. I'm sorry was that an anti-atheist statement there? As an atheist, I can't do whatever I want. There's that whole matter of the police force and judicial system, but I digress.
Savior20061 1 year ago
@Savior20061 Being an atheist does not give you superiority over a religious person, because as I've said, atheists and scientist can be as wrong as anyone else. You seem to think that the fact that people are turning atheist means something when in fact it doesn't mean anything at all. The Bible has already spoken of the craziness that will go on in the final days. 2012 is right around the corner, some religious individuals as well as scientists believe that the end is near.
sessakag 1 year ago
@sessakag 1. Uh...I'm going to to myself a favor and skip the Armageddon thing.
2. I want to show me where an atheist says verbatim that science is infallible and that mistakes are never made. The peer review portion of the scientific is centered around proving the hypothesis wrong.
3. You seem to take an issue with the credibility atheists give to the scientific community, when the scientific community tries very hard to make sure that assertions are as accurate as possible.
Savior20061 1 year ago
@Savior20061 1) Please feel free too, most people do.
2) Proof is the fact that atheist base their thinking from theories and studies of scientists and most atheist, not all, refuse to believe anything said to them unless a scientist has backed up that claim.
3) You do not know what the scientific community's try hard to do. You don't know if what they are telling you is fact or not, and I'm sorry but theories and complicated mathematical problems are not enough for me.
sessakag 1 year ago
@Savior20061 You seem to forget that scientists are just people, human beings who experience greed, arrogance and other human emotions. Do you think a scientist is not capable of making up things in order to sway the mind of the public? Or are scientists above reproach, I'm not saying they are all bad, and some do, do good work, but its hard not to believe that their all angels that could do no wrong. And trust me, the government has a hand in their studies, you shouldn't trust them blindly.
sessakag 1 year ago
@sessakag 1. I don't trust them blindly.
2. Wait a minute, where on earth do you get your claim that atheists convert before death? How many death beds have you visited?
3. And didn't you say yourself in that people converting to a different ideology doesn't prove anything?
Savior20061 1 year ago
@Savior20061 And when I say do whatever you want I meant that they can do things that would bother a Christian individual without fearing any displeasure that has not been proven or dis-proven to exist. You are not bound by the morals a religious person is bound to, personally, I think people are atheist because it makes them sleep better at night.
sessakag 1 year ago
@sessakag That subjective statement could be applied to any member of an ideology. Everyone finds comfort from the beliefs and values that they pick.
But sure, tell me your story. I've got the whole summer.
BTW: I could argue that a religious person is not bound by MY morals. Leviticus advocated homosexuals be put to death. Deutronomy said that rape was okay so long as the father was paid afterward.
Savior20061 1 year ago
@Savior20061 Yes, that is what the Bible says, however, according to most gay activist and some atheists, the Bible was written by man, but I still don't see how they can say we shouldn't listen to the Bible because it was written by man and yet we follow laws and listen to scientific studies that were written by man. But anyway, the story.
I've recently graduated as a Medical Assistant, and before I left I did my internship at a hospital. There were six patients that I was in contact with...
sessakag 1 year ago
@Savior20061 Three were dying, the other three were not. Two of them actually died before I left, but anyways, one of them was an atheist. Well by the end of his illness, he suddenly changed his mind about not believing in anything, he said that what made him decide to become atheist was the freedom it gave him. He didn't have to repent for any "sins" and that it actually made him sleep easier, knowing that whatever he did was not a sin because God did not exist.
sessakag 1 year ago
@Savior20061 But as he lay dying and in pain, he found that the only peace he seemed to get was when he prayed to God to forgive his sins. He said that when you are healthy and young, it is very continent to simply say God does not exist, it helps you live an almost guilt free life, but when you are close to death, things change, you see things you could not see before, you see things happening that cannot be scientifically explained away. He told me that he regretted the way he had lived.
sessakag 1 year ago
@sessakag Unfortunately, conversion don't prove anyone right, especially conversions such as these. These ex-atheists based their conversions on an emotional level, not a factual level, which is why the opinions of Christians don't hold much merit with me. If these men had been in Turkey, they probably would've converted to Islam at the last second. Facing death, they would have clung to any notion of an afterlife.
Savior20061 1 year ago
@Savior20061 But you do not know what ex-atheists base their conversion on, so how can you say they don't convert on a factual level. You have absolutely no proof of that, you are basing that completely on your own opinion. That's why the opinions of atheists holds no merit with me. They usually have no proof to back up their 'theories and logic.' In most things, nothing is 'factual' many facts are based upon the theories of someone.
sessakag 1 year ago
@sessakag 1. Really, because you just gave me a few examples of ex-atheists who converted because they were afraid of dying. Sounds like emotion to me.
2. Ultimately, we can't proof beyond a shadow of a doubt that no God exists. We assume that no God exists because when we ask for proof from theists, we are always given emotional pleas or circular logic.
Savior20061 1 year ago
@Savior20061 1. You do not know if those ex-atheists were afraid to die or not, you are basing that on a theory of yours, not real 'factual' information. You are assuming that's why they did it when in reality, you have no way of knowing that.
2. You assume God does not exist because of emotional pleas or circular logic? So you admit that atheists don't base their 'assumptions' on proof he doesn't exist but on the fact that there is no proof he does exist?
sessakag 1 year ago
"Well by the end of his illness, he suddenly changed his mind about not believing in anything, he said that what made him decide to become atheist was the freedom it gave him. He didn't have to repent for any "sins" and that it actually made him sleep easier, knowing that whatever he did was not a sin because God did not exist.
sessakag 2 weeks ago "
Sounds like he changed his mind because he was "afraid".
Savior20061 1 year ago
@Savior20061 But once again, you do not KNOW if he was afraid or not. You were not there, you don't know what he was thinking or what changed his mind. Once again, you rely on assumptions and everyone knows what happens when you assume stuff. And to me, he didn't seem afraid at all, but he seemed at peace, but again, I have no way of knowing what he was feeling.
sessakag 1 year ago
@sessakag 2. You got it, champ. That's how science works. You proof something IS true. Until you do you assume it isn't. Not the other way around. Here's a quote I've found on the internet that sums it up nicely.
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."
There's no proof that unicorns DON'T exist. Do you believe in them? What if I wrote a Unicorn Bible, would you believe? Didn't think so.
Savior20061 1 year ago
@Savior20061 No, you don't assume something is not true. You work to PROVE something is not true. When someone is arrested, do we ASSUME they're guilty because there is not evidence at the moment, or do you work to prove they are innocent. I may not be a scientist or a atheist but from the conversations I've had with both, neither sit there and make assumptions, they try and prove or disprove something. Again, you have no proof that unicorns don't exist, just because no one has found one.
sessakag 1 year ago
@Savior20061 That's why atheist make no sense. You want proof of things, and facts and yet you all base your beliefs on assumptions, what kind of sense does that make? "What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."? Oh please, that statement is not worth two cents. You don't know what has evidence or not, so you cannot dismiss ANYTHING without sufficient evidence that what is asserted actually can be dismissed. You must PROVE that what is asserted can be dismissed.
sessakag 1 year ago
@Savior20061 Where in the hell would we be if people actually believed that statement? "What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." Do you know how far back we as a society would be if anyone believed that crap? Some things takes years, decades to prove. You don't just toss something out for lack of evidence, you SEARCH for that evidence.
sessakag 1 year ago
@sessakag 1. Assuming you CAN search for evidence. According to you, theists can't. Which still leaves me with no reason to believe their claims.
2. BTW: you are talking about a hypothesis (educated guess to be proven), not an assertion (any old claim).
Savior20061 1 year ago
@Savior20061 1.The same can be said for atheists, which is why I have no reason to believe their claims. The proof will be in death.
2. What is the difference between a hypothesis or 'any old claim'? None. Both are claims whether you see them as an 'educated guess' or not. There is really no such thing as an 'educated guess'. A guess is a guess no matter what word you stick in the front of it. ANY claim can be proven or disproven wheter it is 'educated' or not.
sessakag 1 year ago
@Savior20061 That seems to me to be flawed logic. According to most atheists, they base their beliefs on 'facts' and 'logic' and yet you admit that your beliefs are based upon assumptions. You ask for proof from the wrong persons. Theists are not Gods, they have no direct contact to God, nor do they claim to. So how do you expect to get proof from them? That makes no sense at all. The only solid proof you will get is when you die and by then, it will be too late to change you mind about things.
sessakag 1 year ago
@sessakag 1. How doesn't it make sense? Many theists like you claim for a fact that God exists. When you promote a statement as fact, it's only logical that a skeptic should ask for supporting evidence. Just because you have none, doesn't make the skeptic's demand unreasonable.
2. Except you don't really KNOW it will be too late, because you haven't proven the existence of a creator, let alone one that fits the Christian portrayal.
Savior20061 1 year ago
@Savior20061 1. It makes no sense because atheists claim they base their belief on facts but there is no proof that God does not exist. How can you base your beliefs on something that has not been proven? If you really look at it, Christians and atheists are not so different. We don't have proof of God and you all don't have proof that he doesn't exist. Only death will prove one or the other side right.
2. So are you saying that you can come back to life and redo your life of you're wrong?
sessakag 1 year ago
@sessakag 1. Sess, I've just explained it with the comments below. I gave myself a migraine last week repeating myself to a guy who liked DADT and I'm not going down that road again. But I will add that atheism isn't a belief. It's doubt. Lack of belief.
2. Where on Earth did I say that?!
Savior20061 1 year ago
@Savior20061 1. You didn't explain anything. Atheist believe that God does not exist, either way it goes, that is a belief, call it what you will.
2. You said that I don't know it won't be too late, and I'm asking how it won't be too late? I know I've said over and over that death will be the proof you need, therefore it will be too late to change your mind. Whether you chose to believe or not is between you and God. Hope its worth it. :)
sessakag 1 year ago
@sessakag No, it's not a belief. When I say, "I DON'T believe that there is a God, how can you say that's a belief? Is not believing the same as believing? When did this happen? All you did was take the negative (no) and put it somewhere else in the sentence.
Savior20061 1 year ago
@Savior20061 Like I said, you can phrase it any way you like, but it is a belief. Atheists believe God is the creation of man's imagination. There is no proof of that which is what makes it a belief. It is not a fact, it is a belief.
sessakag 1 year ago
@sessakag Okay, I can tell that I WILL have to repeat myself after all. I didn't say it was an absolute fact. I said it was DOUBT. Atheism is lack of faith.
DOUBT from the freedictionary.
1. To be undecided or skeptical about:
2. To tend to disbelieve; distrust:
3. To regard as unlikely:
4. Archaic To suspect; fear.
So YOU can phrase it however you want, you are still incorrect.
Savior20061 1 year ago
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sessakag 1 year ago
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@Savior20061 He told me not to live to the dictates of the world, whether those dictations come from a pastor, a scientist, the law or a Bible. That if you know God and do what it is he would want you to do, you will live a happier life. I'm not an atheist, however, I do believe in God. I don't go to church or read the Bible much, and I don't do everything a pastor tells me to do, I do not read too much into scientific theories either, I get my morals and beliefs from my own mind.
sessakag 1 year ago
@Savior20061 I'm not saying they all convert, I'm saying from what I've witnessed, atheists tend to re-evaluate their thinking when death is knocking at their door, never seen anyone die proclaiming to be atheist. It seems to me being atheist is depressing. When you die all you look forward to is rotting in the ground if you're right and burning in hell if you're wrong.
sessakag 1 year ago
@sessakag Long time before I saw this post. I could imagine being a Christian can be just as depressing. You constantly have the fear of Hell, eternal punishment, and divine wrath from an angry and jealous God dictating your every movement. And when you die, you either burn in hell according to doctrine or spend eternity with a wrathful, jealous God. Both sound like torment to me.
Savior20061 1 year ago
@Savior20061 Actually, you don't have to live in fear if you do what is right, but now days, doing what is right is not something people like to do, so of course most people will live in fear, which is why it is easier to become atheist. You won't be on such a straight and narrow path, you don't have to do whats right because God doesn't exist, blah, blah, blah. As for a wrathful, jealous God, if you are doing the right thing, you won't HAVE to worry about his wrath.
sessakag 1 year ago
@sessakag I'm NOT worried about his wrath. =D
Savior20061 1 year ago
@Savior20061 You do not have to be worried about his wrath to bring it down upon you. You being worried about it is not really necessary to feel it. :P
sessakag 1 year ago
@Savior20061 Did you expect God to be some sort of push over? Did you expect him to be as weak as a human being? You seem to forget that God is not a human, you are not on his level, and you cannot hold him to human standards. It seems like people are trying to define what God is based upon human thinking, and forget that you are not dealing with a human, you are dealing with a God. He dictates to you, not the other way around.
sessakag 1 year ago
@sessakag Except your "God" is chockful of human traits. Jealousy, wrath, even hyprocrisy, and inconsistency in the Old Testament. If he's "perfect", he should have no negative human traits, because humans aren't perfect.
For some reason, Christians have a thing for "special pleading". Being jealous and wrathful is okay as long as you have power and can do whatever you want.
Savior20061 1 year ago
@Savior20061 But how can you call those human traits. God was here long before man, so is it not safe to say that humans have God traits? And again, you are applying human logic to a God. Most atheists believe the Bible was written by man, therefore, it is also safe to assume that descriptions of God in the Old Testament are wrong. And perfection can be defined in many ways, it depends upon the person.
sessakag 1 year ago
@sessakag 1. Assuming of course, that God WAS here before man, and not a product of their imagination. But either assumption would explain why God and Humans have similiar personality traits. People may have different ideas on what's perfect, but the core concept has always been the same. Perfection means "without flaw".
Savior20061 1 year ago
@Savior20061 Yes but what is a flaw? What someone deem as a flaw, someone else my not, therefore the meaning of perfection has more than one definition. And I am curious to hear how you believe man was created.
sessakag 1 year ago
@sessakag 1. Okay, you got me on "perfection".
Men evolved from apes. Don't tell me you are a creationist too?
=(
2. Like I said, I might be wrong, but that still doesn't guarantee that "it'll be too late". Do you want to know why that is?
Savior20061 1 year ago
@Savior20061 The ape theory, lol. Again, there is no proof of that. We did not SEE such an evolution occur. Our DNA may be similar to apes, however, that proves nothing, just that we have things in common with apes, that's it. Unless you were there, and saw such a thing occur, you have no way of knowing if such a thing occur. The ape thing is a scientific theory, a possible explanation of mans existence. Its a very good tale though, a bit far fetched to me though.
sessakag 1 year ago
@sessakag Similar DNA doesn't prove anything? That's honest to God (pardon the pun) news to me. But I'm not here to talk about evolution. There are many people who could explain it better. Take your case to AronRa or Thunderf00t.
Savior20061 1 year ago
@Savior20061 Okay, so if you are wrong, why wouldn't it be too late?
sessakag 1 year ago
@sessakag Isn't it obvious? If YOU are wrong too. =D
Have you ever heard of Pascal's Wager? Pascal argued that even if God couldn't be proven, that people should become Christians anyway, so they'd have nothing to lose if they were wrong and God didn't exist. But Pascal made the same mistake you and so many other Christian proponents have made when it comes to probability. You guys narrowed it down too soon (continues...)
Savior20061 1 year ago
@Savior20061 (...continued)
He assumed that either:
A. Christians were right....or
B. Atheists were right.
The problem of course, is the possibility of a C answer. In reality, any number of deities could theoretically exist. Maybe the Muslims turn out to be right. Maybe the Jews. Maybe the Romans. Maybe the Egyptians. Maybe the Sumerians. There is even the possibility that none of THESE are right, and the creator(s) is something that us humans never considered before.
Savior20061 1 year ago
@Savior20061 Of course that is true, but like I said proof will be in death.
sessakag 1 year ago
@Savior20061 Nope never heard of that. But the mistake YOU are making is assuming that I am Christian. I've never claimed to be a Christian. I'm not telling anyone to become a Chrisitan or otherwise, I am simply pointing out that atheists don't really have anything to back up their beliefs, and I'm also pointing out that disbelief will possibly get you eternity in Hell. That's all really. :)
sessakag 1 year ago
@sessakag Are you a Christian? If not, then why the apolegetics?
Savior20061 1 year ago
@Savior20061 Because, though I don't claim to be Christian, I DO believe in God. However, I am well aware of the possibility of the Bible being false, and some pastors are no more Christian than a demon. Therefore, I do not put my trust in MAN. I don't believe for a second that whole, 'we used to be apes and magically became humans' theory, therefore, I am no where near being atheists. That theory was developed by MAN, so it's not worth two cents.
sessakag 1 year ago
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sessakag 1 year ago
@sessakag So...you are a Christian?
Savior20061 1 year ago
@Savior20061 I don't consider myself as one, no. Christian to me is someone that goes to church, believes everything in the Bible, etc. I used to go to church but after what I've seen there, anyone can claim to be a Christian, doesn't make it true, and like I said, there is the possibility that the Bible has been tampered with. You don't have to be a Christian to believe in God. I believe in God, and its that simple. I'm not Christian, nor atheist, I am me. No labels needed.
sessakag 1 year ago
@sessakag Okay, well...I guess I don't have anything else to say. I suppose this is where we part ways. Have a good one. =D
Savior20061 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Savior20061 But I do believe in God and I do believe there is a Hell, but I believe that based upon my own life experience, what I've seen for myself, not based on the words of a preacher, or a Bible that could be true but has been greatly tampered with by man, or based upon what some scientist believes or 'theories'. I believe what I believe based upon my own mind and life experiences. I don't believe everything someone else tells me. I prefer not to be bound by the ways of the world.
sessakag 1 year ago
@Savior20061 And once again, you are applying human notions to a God. Based upon your opinion, you think humans are not perfect, and you think God is not perfect, but you have no right to deem what is perfect and what is not. God may have an entirely different notion of perfection that you, as a human, are not aware of. You are applying human notions to a God, once again.
sessakag 1 year ago
@sessakag 1. Of course I do! I can deem what is perfect, what is ugly, what is pretty, what is hot, and what is cold. I have every right to express that opinion. People can agree or agree/disagree.
Savior20061 1 year ago
@Savior20061 Yes, you can express an opinion, doesn't mean but it really doesn't make it worth anything, lol. People can agree or disagree with whatever they want, doesn't make it worth two cents. Like I said, the proof will be in death, and by then, it'll be way too late if it turns out you're wrong.
sessakag 1 year ago
@Savior20061 And as far as being an atheist, I'd like to share a story with you about that if you'd like to hear it, maybe it will explain why I don't really believe in the whole atheist thing.
sessakag 1 year ago
@Savior20061 And how are surveys in anyway an accurate portrayal of how young people feel? Unless they asked every young person in America how they felt about it, that survey is only valid for that small group of young people asked and can in no way be taken as fact.
sessakag 1 year ago
@sessakag Wait just a minute...how did you come to the conclusion that the majority of Americans don't like gay marriage?! Didn't you get that information from a survey? Because, if you did, I can just write it off as crock using your same logic.
Savior20061 1 year ago
@Savior20061 I didn't say anything about the majority of America not liking gay marriage, I said that you cannot base a survey on the overall though of the youth. However in some states, the majority of people do not seem to approve of it based upon the fact that there are only a few states that allow gay marriage, and even some of those states STILL refuse to call it marriage, its called Civil Union. So if you can't conclude from that what America thinks of gay marriage, something is wrong.
sessakag 1 year ago
@Savior20061 I think that atheists want to live that mostly guilt free life, but in the end, God gets to them. He always seems to. On the verge of death atheists don't cry out to scientists but to God for help. Which is why the words of atheists holds little value to me.
sessakag 1 year ago
@Savior20061 And before you make another bias comment, not all atheist agree with gay activist. But I think that atheists are not really atheist because they believe in science rather than God. They are as unbending about scientific studies as religious people are about their Bible. So bringing up atheist doesn't really do much for me, atheists can be as wrong as anyone else. I tell you what though, if they want to take their chances with a God that MAY or may not exists, then thats on them.
sessakag 1 year ago
@sessakag 1. Not all atheists support gay marriage that's true.
2. atheism means lack of belief in a deity. Feelings about science are irrelevant to the core definition.
3. At the end there, you seemed to hint at Pascal's Wager. That's a black/white logical fallacy that you are going to want to avoid.
No offense, but I'm getting the feeling that you were totally bullshiting me when you said your convictions weren't based on religion.
Savior20061 1 year ago
@Savior20061 And like I said, atheist believe in scientists and man, those are their deity because they seem to hold their studies and the things they say as holy and sacred. If a scientist says something then thats it, they go along with it, just like religious people go along with what is written in the Bible. And my convictions are not based on religion, I am merely speaking from a religious point of view since gay activists seem to think Christians are the ones causing the problem.
sessakag 1 year ago
@Savior20061 That slippery slope everyone is talking about is the main issue of allowing gays to marry, and yet every gay person or gay activist doesn't seem to want to address the issue or out right avoid the subject. I wonder why that is.
sessakag 1 year ago
@sessakag Exactly. Your "main issue" is a logical fallacy. There is NO reason to suspect that anyone's minds will change about pedophilia, bestality, or incest because the same arguments can't be used because they are NOT THE SAME THING. The pro-gay community doesn't avoid the subject. The subject makes no sense.
Savior20061 1 year ago